Wisconsin notes

[froggie]

^ There are less expensive measures that would improve safety without the cost or impact of a full 4-lane widening.

I recall doing some number crunching on WI 23 a couple years ago.  From FdL, you can definitely make a case for a short 4-lane extension to CTH UU, but traffic volumes take a noticeable dip east of UU, even more by the county line (under 6K), and don't really pick back up again until Greenbush.

[thspfc]

There's just a lot of intersections of that section of WI-23. Cross traffic and turning traffic don't mix well with traffic going 70 MPH, obviously.

[Verlanka]

There's just a lot of intersections of that section of WI-23. Cross traffic and turning traffic don't mix well with traffic going 70 MPH, obviously.

Agreed.

[triplemultiplex]

For a DOT that's supposedly starved for cash, the WI 23 expansion seems ostentatious.  Sure it'll be safer and shorten the drive between FDL and Sheboygan slightly, but I think it's going to look a lot like US 10 west of Stevens Point when done: Way overbuilt for the traffic it handles.

But unlike, say, US 53 in northwest Wisconsin (an expressway seemingly overbuilt for its traffic) WI 23 doesn't function as an inter-regional corridor.  Sheboygan and Fond du Lac are too small and close together for WI 23 to be considered in the same breathe as US 53 up in Douglas & Washburn Counties.  US 53 connects a MAJOR inland port, an entire region of northern Minnesota and even a sizeable chunk of Canada to everywhere in Chicago's influence and beyond to the south and east.

I haven't driven WI 23 a ton over the proposed expansion, but every time I have, I was never struck with the impression "Wow, this seriously needs 4 lanes."  There must be dozens of projects currently backburnered by WisDOT more deserving of action than this one.  Like US 10 before it, WI 23 is a special interest project of dubious merit championed by influential politicians from that area.

In an alternate universe where WisDOT hasn't been kneecapped by a decade and a half of shortsightedness I'm okay with expanding WI 23.  But in the real world, with thousands of miles of dilapidated and/or congested highways in the state, expanding WI 23 is not a financially prudent decision.

[The Ghostbuster]

You may be right. On the other hand, the amount of support for four-laning STH-23 was overwhelming. Time will tell whether four-laning the corridor was overkill.

[thspfc]

I agree with most of what you said. WISDOT needs to find ways to make highways safer that don't involve dramatically widening the highway. Regardless of how, though, improvements are needed on WI-23.

[midwesternroadguy]

I tend to agree with most comments about this project.  So my question to all of you is name 4-lane expansion or new corridor projects that are in greater need than STH 23 from FdL to Plymouth.  I'll nominate the following:

Madison North Beltline
STH 21, Coloma to Oshkosh, passing lanes and/or expansion, and a Wautoma bypass
Sauk City bypass and removing US 12 stoplights to Middleton
US 14 Janesville to Darien
US 12 new corridor Elkhorn to Whitewater (interim Super 2) bypassing Lauderdale Lakes
STH 83 near Wales and Genessee Depot
STH 42/57 Sturgeon Bay bypass, 4-lane north of canal
US 14 Oregon to Evansville (future need, but increasing ADTs)
US 14 Spring Green to Middleton

[SEWIGuy]

The new corridor between Elkhorn and Whitewater really isn't that necessary given the cost. US-12 traffic is really only heavy on summer weekends and is otherwise reasonable.

IMO, expansion of current interstate highways (such as I-41 between Appleton and Green Bay and I-94 between Madison and Milwaukee) are MUCH higher priorities than any four-laning project I can think of.

[triplemultiplex]

I tend to agree with most comments about this project.  So my question to all of you is name 4-lane expansion or new corridor projects that are in greater need than STH 23 from FdL to Plymouth.

The more deserving projects I'm thinking about are not new four lane expansions.  Narrowing the question like that bumps WI 23 higher; higher than at least half of your proposals.  I'm thinking more along the lines of remaining freeway expansions in Milwaukee County and extending I-94's six lanes west to at least Oconomowoc.  I'd resurrect US 10 east at Stevens Point over WI 23.  I'd work on a bit of freeway conversion of some existing expressways around the state to increase the safety of those corridors.  Agree about US 12 tho; those lights are sucky and I'm jonsing for that Sauk bypass.

[thspfc]

I tend to agree with most comments about this project.  So my question to all of you is name 4-lane expansion or new corridor projects that are in greater need than STH 23 from FdL to Plymouth.

The more deserving projects I'm thinking about are not new four lane expansions.  Narrowing the question like that bumps WI 23 higher; higher than at least half of your proposals.  I'm thinking more along the lines of remaining freeway expansions in Milwaukee County and extending I-94's six lanes west to at least Oconomowoc.  I'd resurrect US 10 east at Stevens Point over WI 23.  I'd work on a bit of freeway conversion of some existing expressways around the state to increase the safety of those corridors.  Agree about US 12 tho; those lights are sucky and I'm jonsing for that Sauk bypass.

Honestly, expressways and megafreeways are nice, but first WISDOT should address its crumbling roads, especially in the western part of the state.

[mgk920]

I tend to agree with most comments about this project.  So my question to all of you is name 4-lane expansion or new corridor projects that are in greater need than STH 23 from FdL to Plymouth.

The more deserving projects I'm thinking about are not new four lane expansions.  Narrowing the question like that bumps WI 23 higher; higher than at least half of your proposals.  I'm thinking more along the lines of remaining freeway expansions in Milwaukee County and extending I-94's six lanes west to at least Oconomowoc.  I'd resurrect US 10 east at Stevens Point over WI 23.  I'd work on a bit of freeway conversion of some existing expressways around the state to increase the safety of those corridors.  Agree about US 12 tho; those lights are sucky and I'm jonsing for that Sauk bypass.

US 10 between I-39 at Stevens Point and Amherst Junction will now have to be upgraded on its current ROW, any other potential corridor is no longer available.  IMHO, that would be a 'piece 'o cake' east of the Stevens Point city limits and especially east of County 'J' - there is enough room in the median to add a new eastbound mainline roadway, extending the existing narrow barrier median at county 'J' between it and the current westbound side and downgrading the current eastbound side into a frontage/access road from County 'J' to WI 161.

The real fun here, though, is the part from the Stevens Point city limits westward to I-39 - it would have to be upgraded in a manner that is very much like a Texas freeway complete with the paired one-way frontage roads and a free-flow interchange at I-39 on a seriously wider ROW.  Yepper - $$$$$.

<sigh....>



OTOH, serious upgrades are needed on that two-lane part of WI 23 between Fond du Lac and Sheboygan due to safety issues and it is a hugely popular project among the locals.  The prohibition on WisDOT studying a US 12 Sauk-Prairie bypass is soon to expire (if it hasn't already) and a US 12 Ekhorn-Whitewater 'corner cut' should not be too difficult to do as a Super-Two on an upgradable ROW - the vast majority of where it will go is wide-open, FLAT, undeveloped countryside.

Mike

[DaBigE]

From the programmed projects side of things, I'm happy to see Hwy 23/33 in Sauk County finally slated to get some attention, but I don't think it's going to last until 2021. It was already in poor shape, but this past winter did a serious beating on this stretch. It makes going to the in-laws that much more enjoyable. 

[SEWIGuy]

US-10 on the east side of Stevens Point is fine. Sure it slows down but traffic isn't terrible and everyone moves well. Relocating that would have been a great example of overkill. Not everything needs to be free flowing.

[Revive 755]

The new corridor between Elkhorn and Whitewater really isn't that necessary given the cost. US-12 traffic is really only heavy on summer weekends and is otherwise reasonable.

Being a high accident corridor (with 'Crash Reduction Project' signs') is not enough to warrant at least an upgraded two lane facility?

[SEWIGuy]

Sure.  Upgrade the corridor by adding passing lanes, straightening out curves and hills, etc.  A new terrain corridor across the Kettle Morraine?  Overkill.

[on_wisconsin]

I tend to agree with most comments about this project.  So my question to all of you is name 4-lane expansion or new corridor projects that are in greater need than STH 23 from FdL to Plymouth.

The more deserving projects I'm thinking about are not new four lane expansions.  Narrowing the question like that bumps WI 23 higher; higher than at least half of your proposals.  I'm thinking more along the lines of remaining freeway expansions in Milwaukee County and extending I-94's six lanes west to at least Oconomowoc.  I'd resurrect US 10 east at Stevens Point over WI 23.  I'd work on a bit of freeway conversion of some existing expressways around the state to increase the safety of those corridors.  Agree about US 12 tho; those lights are sucky and I'm jonsing for that Sauk bypass.

Honestly, expressways and megafreeways are nice, but first WISDOT should address its crumbling roads, especially in the western part of the state.

This! The state highways are in a miserable way here in west Wisconsin.

[The Ghostbuster]

Maybe someone should write to the DOT asking them to pay more attention to roads in Western Wisconsin.

[thspfc]

Maybe someone should write to the DOT asking them to pay more attention to roads in Western Wisconsin.

Yeah, they have been spending on Milwaukee, the Fox Valley, and St. Croix County recently, and really nowhere else.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

Maybe someone should write to the DOT asking them to pay more attention to roads in Western Wisconsin.

Yeah, they have been spending on Milwaukee, the Fox Valley, and St. Croix County recently, and really nowhere else.

St. Croix County is Western Wisconsin, isn't it? 

/I'll show myself the door.

[SEWIGuy]

Maybe someone should write to the DOT asking them to pay more attention to roads in Western Wisconsin.

Yeah, they have been spending on Milwaukee, the Fox Valley, and St. Croix County recently, and really nowhere else.

You mean where most of the people live???

[thspfc]

Maybe someone should write to the DOT asking them to pay more attention to roads in Western Wisconsin.

Yeah, they have been spending on Milwaukee, the Fox Valley, and St. Croix County recently, and really nowhere else.

St. Croix County is Western Wisconsin, isn't it? 

/I'll show myself the door.

Oops. Western Wisconsin besides St. Croix County. 

[dvferyance]

Maybe someone should write to the DOT asking them to pay more attention to roads in Western Wisconsin.

Yeah, they have been spending on Milwaukee, the Fox Valley, and St. Croix County recently, and really nowhere else.

What about the I-39/90 project that isn't in any of those areas.

[DaBigE]

Maybe someone should write to the DOT asking them to pay more attention to roads in Western Wisconsin.

Yeah, they have been spending on Milwaukee, the Fox Valley, and St. Croix County recently, and really nowhere else.

I'm a little surprised you left your own town off the list.   Verona Rd and the beltline too close?

While I won't speak to the rest of the Milwaukee metro, the Zoo Interchange has been in dire shape for far too long. Unless you like spending millions of dollars on emergency bridge repairs, it had to be done.

[SEWIGuy]

It probably could be argued that WIDOT hasn't spent enough money in the Milwaukee area if you used a measurement based on dollars spent per AADT.   I might be wrong, but I think a lot of the recent spending is catch up to a lot of spending in largely rural areas upgrading highways that, while busy, don't contain nearly the amount of traffic as Milwaukee's highways.

[mgk920]

Maybe someone should write to the DOT asking them to pay more attention to roads in Western Wisconsin.

Yeah, they have been spending on Milwaukee, the Fox Valley, and St. Croix County recently, and really nowhere else.

I'm a little surprised you left your own town off the list.   Verona Rd and the beltline too close?

While I won't speak to the rest of the Milwaukee metro, the Zoo Interchange has been in dire shape for far too long. Unless you like spending millions of dollars on emergency bridge repairs, it had to be done.

And, as I have mentioned off and on for many years in all sorts of forvms, the health and fluidity of the Zoo interchange is of critical importance to the economic well-being of the entire eastern half of Wisconsin, not just western Milwaukee County.  A HUGE chunk of the commerce into and out of most of the state east of I-39 passes through it.

Mike