Wisconsin notes

[peterj920]

Those four lane sections were built when it was the main route between Milwaukee and Green Bay. I take WI-57 between Chilton and De Pere pretty regularly.  There is usually little traffic, and the road is so flat and wide that passing is easy.

The 4 lane section of Wis 57 between Wis 144 near Random Lake and the stub freeway end near I-43 was built in the late 1990s and was a newer addition on existing ROW. The older section between Random Lake and Waldo had a bunch of sections where the roadways had were at uneven heights. There was a later project to level the carriageways.

[SEWIGuy]

Those four lane sections were built when it was the main route between Milwaukee and Green Bay. I take WI-57 between Chilton and De Pere pretty regularly.  There is usually little traffic, and the road is so flat and wide that passing is easy.

The 4 lane section of Wis 67 between Wis 144 near Random Lake and the stub freeway end near I-43 was built in the late 1990s and was a newer addition on existing ROW. The older section between Random Lake and Waldo had a bunch of sections where the roadways had were at uneven heights. There was a later project to level the carriageways.

Thank you for the clarification.

[Big John]

Mason St  (WI 54) bridge in Green Bay stuck in open position indefinitely: https://fox11online.com/news/local/downtown-green-bay-bridge-experiencing-mechanical-issue

While under annual maintenance today, the bridge was opened to let a ship through and is again stuck in the open position.

[SEWIGuy]

Mason St  (WI 54) bridge in Green Bay stuck in open position indefinitely: https://fox11online.com/news/local/downtown-green-bay-bridge-experiencing-mechanical-issue

While under annual maintenance today, the bridge was opened to let a ship through and is again stuck in the open position.

It's actually nearly closed. Maddening. I don't take it regularly but I take it enough.

https://www.wearegreenbay.com/news/local-news/now-mason-street-bridge-malfunctions-closed-to-traffic/amp/

[SEWIGuy]

Mason St  (WI 54) bridge in Green Bay stuck in open position indefinitely: https://fox11online.com/news/local/downtown-green-bay-bridge-experiencing-mechanical-issue

While under annual maintenance today, the bridge was opened to let a ship through and is again stuck in the open position.

It's actually nearly closed. Maddening. I don't take it regularly but I take it enough.

https://www.wearegreenbay.com/news/local-news/now-mason-street-bridge-malfunctions-closed-to-traffic/amp/

It was back open today. Apparently a software issue.

[Big John]

^^ I wonder how old that computer is for a bridge that opened in 1973.

[SEWIGuy]

^^ I wonder how old that computer is for a bridge that opened in 1973.

I think this is the first time they had opened the bridge since last year's repairs.  So I am wondering if it was a result of that somehow.

[tchafe1978]

https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/sw/us18-bluemounds/default.aspx

I see WisDOT is planning on recontructing the US18-151 and County F intersection near Blue Mounds into a J-turn intersection, but not until 2025. My question is why, with future plans to construct an interchange here, doesn't the DOT just go ahead and build the interchange now, instead of wasting time and money on an interim solution? Wouldn't it save money in the long run to go all out now? It boggles the mind. The DOT built the interchange near Ridgeway a few years ago that probably sees less traffic than the County F intersection. If they could go all out at Ridgeway, why not here?

[SEWIGuy]

A J-turn intersection seems significantly less expensive than a full interchange.  Why not build an interim solution that may last you 20 years?

[thspfc]

A J-turn intersection seems significantly less expensive than a full interchange.  Why not build an interim solution that may last you 20 years?

Which is cheaper:

J-turn intersection now + diamond interchange in 20 years

Or

Diamond interchange now

Answer: the latter.

[mgk920]

https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/sw/us18-bluemounds/default.aspx

I see WisDOT is planning on recontructing the US18-151 and County F intersection near Blue Mounds into a J-turn intersection, but not until 2025. My question is why, with future plans to construct an interchange here, doesn't the DOT just go ahead and build the interchange now, instead of wasting time and money on an interim solution? Wouldn't it save money in the long run to go all out now? It boggles the mind. The DOT built the interchange near Ridgeway a few years ago that probably sees less traffic than the County F intersection. If they could go all out at Ridgeway, why not here?

WisDOT did the same thing on WI 29/32 just west of Green Bay.  They are currently replacing an 'almost' Michigan Left intersection with a regular diamond interchange (County 'C'?).

Mike

[JoePCool14]

I think the better question is: does it really take 3 years just to begin construction on something like this? If it's that much of a concern, that seems like the sort of project that could be done a bit quicker.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if Cave of the Mounds Rd, which is used to access Tyrol Basin Ski Area, is closed at some point to force people to use the J-turn.

[SEWIGuy]

A J-turn intersection seems significantly less expensive than a full interchange.  Why not build an interim solution that may last you 20 years?

Which is cheaper:

J-turn intersection now + diamond interchange in 20 years

Or

Diamond interchange now

Answer: the latter.

First, it assumes that you actually will need such an interchange.  You may not.

Second, you are ignoring the time value of money, especially if you are spending a bunch of money on an overbuilt project early.

[triplemultiplex]

For long term safety, the interchange is the way to go.  Especially at this junction where a cheese factory in the southwest quadrant means there are extra trucks making turns.
In my unprofessional opinion, that junction needs an interchange now.
Best to do it before more sprawl gets that far west from Madison and more locals come to get used to the at-grades, then piss and moan when WisDOT freeway converts it in like 15 years.

[The Ghostbuster]

The US 18/151 Freeway Conversion Study (https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/sw/18151study/maps.aspx) has been split up into 6 sections (Section 1 - US 18 to County BB; Section 2 - County BB to County HHH (west); Section 3 - County H to County K; Section 4 - Mounds View Road to WIS 78; Section 5 - WIS 78 to County P; and Section 6 - County P to County MV). Under the preferred alternative for Section 4 (Alternative 4A), there will be an interchange at CTH F (see https://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/projects/by-region/sw/18151study/map-sect4alta.pdf for ramp configuration). In the interim, converting the intersection to a J-Turn intersection will cost less than building a full interchange with local road modifications, thus the interchange proposal will be implemented in the long-term.

[Big John]

https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/sw/us18-bluemounds/default.aspx

I see WisDOT is planning on recontructing the US18-151 and County F intersection near Blue Mounds into a J-turn intersection, but not until 2025. My question is why, with future plans to construct an interchange here, doesn't the DOT just go ahead and build the interchange now, instead of wasting time and money on an interim solution? Wouldn't it save money in the long run to go all out now? It boggles the mind. The DOT built the interchange near Ridgeway a few years ago that probably sees less traffic than the County F intersection. If they could go all out at Ridgeway, why not here?

WisDOT did the same thing on WI 29/32 just west of Green Bay.  They are currently replacing an 'almost' Michigan Left intersection with a regular diamond interchange (County 'C'?).

Mike

County VV.

The interchange came sooner than expected when they got federal funds earmarked for it under SCORN.

[dvferyance]

A J-turn intersection seems significantly less expensive than a full interchange.  Why not build an interim solution that may last you 20 years?

Which is cheaper:

J-turn intersection now + diamond interchange in 20 years

Or

Diamond interchange now

Answer: the latter.

An interchange should have been built there like 20 years ago. It's long overdue for an interchange. J Turns aren't really much safer anyways. Your making tight U turns on a highway with a 65 MPH speed limit. Blue Mound State Park is close by that is a popular destination in the state. I have to go all the way to Hwy 78 to get back on US18/151 because I don't feel safe getting on at Hwy F at an at grade intersection. A J turn is not going to change that.

[SSOWorld]

A J-turn intersection seems significantly less expensive than a full interchange.  Why not build an interim solution that may last you 20 years?

Which is cheaper:

J-turn intersection now + diamond interchange in 20 years

Or

Diamond interchange now

Answer: the latter.

An interchange should have been built there like 20 years ago. It's long overdue for an interchange. J Turns aren't really much safer anyways. Your making tight U turns on a highway with a 65 MPH speed limit. Blue Mound State Park is close by that is a popular destination in the state. I have to go all the way to Hwy 78 to get back on US18/151 because I don't feel safe getting on at Hwy F at an at grade intersection. A J turn is not going to change that.

They're not tight - remember they widen the shoulder so it can be made loosely.

[dvferyance]

A J-turn intersection seems significantly less expensive than a full interchange.  Why not build an interim solution that may last you 20 years?

Which is cheaper:

J-turn intersection now + diamond interchange in 20 years

Or

Diamond interchange now

Answer: the latter.

An interchange should have been built there like 20 years ago. It's long overdue for an interchange. J Turns aren't really much safer anyways. Your making tight U turns on a highway with a 65 MPH speed limit. Blue Mound State Park is close by that is a popular destination in the state. I have to go all the way to Hwy 78 to get back on US18/151 because I don't feel safe getting on at Hwy F at an at grade intersection. A J turn is not going to change that.

They're not tight - remember they widen the shoulder so it can be made loosely.

You also have to make a quick lane change to the left and another to the right if your continuing on the same route. They are not much safer. Do they even exist anywhere outside Wisconsin?

[Big John]

^^ They are based on the Michigan Left.  For other states, they are becoming common in Missouri for example: https://www.modot.org/j-turns

[JoePCool14]

Just be glad it's better than this atrocity of a left turn in Illinois.

https://goo.gl/maps/2riaJYUSHKVCUvxR6

I've made this one a couple times and it is scary. I wouldn't even try if I had somebody really on my tail.

[Great Lakes Roads]

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2022/05/06/wisconsin-dot-looks-new-designs-highway-175-near-stadium-interchange-milwaukee/9664986002/

The Stadium Interchange in Milwaukee may get rebuilt into a Diverging Diamond Interchange (DDI). WisDOT is also doing a study to convert the Stadium Freeway into an at-grade boulevard.

[SSOWorld]

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2022/05/06/wisconsin-dot-looks-new-designs-highway-175-near-stadium-interchange-milwaukee/9664986002/

The Stadium Interchange in Milwaukee may get rebuilt into a Diverging Diamond Interchange (DDI). WisDOT is also doing a study to convert the Stadium Freeway into an at-grade boulevard.

This was in the works for some time - ever since the full stadium freeway got canceled, there is no point for a full-freeway interchange at this point.  One exception - the conversion of 175 north of 94 is new.

[SEWIGuy]

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2022/05/06/wisconsin-dot-looks-new-designs-highway-175-near-stadium-interchange-milwaukee/9664986002/

The Stadium Interchange in Milwaukee may get rebuilt into a Diverging Diamond Interchange (DDI). WisDOT is also doing a study to convert the Stadium Freeway into an at-grade boulevard.

This was in the works for some time - ever since the full stadium freeway got canceled, there is no point for a full-freeway interchange at this point.  One exception - the conversion of 175 north of 94 is new.

It's smart though.  If they could duplicate north if I-94 what has occurred along 43rd St, it would be good for the area

[mgk920]

The full Stadium Freeway, the Park Freeway/Fond du Lac (Ave) Freeway, the Lake (South) Freeway, etc, were all originally meant to be part of a cohesive system that required all of its component parts to be there and functioning or order to work.  It was doomed as a freeway network when the first piece was canceled in the very early 1970s.  We'll have to make do with an as cohesive a surface boulevard system as is possible.  It will be very interesting, indeed, to see what is done to connect the Stadium North Boulevard (freeway) to the Fond du Lac Boulevard (freeway).

Mike