Wisconsin notes

[The Ghostbuster]

I would support reconstructing the Stadium North Freeway as a parkway similar to Brewers Boulevard to the south, while retaining all existing bridges and ramps. As for an at-grade boulevard with intersections and likely traffic signals, I would strongly oppose it. Converting the Stadium Interchange to a diverging-diamond would be acceptable as long as the configuration doesn't become overwhelmingly congested.

[thspfc]

I would support reconstructing the Stadium North Freeway as a parkway similar to Brewers Boulevard to the south, while retaining all existing bridges and ramps. As for an at-grade boulevard with intersections and likely traffic signals, I would strongly oppose it. Converting the Stadium Interchange to a diverging-diamond would be acceptable as long as the configuration doesn't become overwhelmingly congested.

I do question if a DDI there could handle gameday traffic. It would be fine on normal days.

[SEWIGuy]

I would support reconstructing the Stadium North Freeway as a parkway similar to Brewers Boulevard to the south, while retaining all existing bridges and ramps. As for an at-grade boulevard with intersections and likely traffic signals, I would strongly oppose it. Converting the Stadium Interchange to a diverging-diamond would be acceptable as long as the configuration doesn't become overwhelmingly congested.

Are the bridges in good shape?

[Big John]

I would support reconstructing the Stadium North Freeway as a parkway similar to Brewers Boulevard to the south, while retaining all existing bridges and ramps. As for an at-grade boulevard with intersections and likely traffic signals, I would strongly oppose it. Converting the Stadium Interchange to a diverging-diamond would be acceptable as long as the configuration doesn't become overwhelmingly congested.

Are the bridges in good shape?

The bridges have been rehabilitated, but are nearing the end of their useful life.

[SEWIGuy]

I would support reconstructing the Stadium North Freeway as a parkway similar to Brewers Boulevard to the south, while retaining all existing bridges and ramps. As for an at-grade boulevard with intersections and likely traffic signals, I would strongly oppose it. Converting the Stadium Interchange to a diverging-diamond would be acceptable as long as the configuration doesn't become overwhelmingly congested.

Are the bridges in good shape?

The bridges have been rehabilitated, but are nearing the end of their useful life.

Yeah, then they aren't going to replace them with new bridges.  They will be full intersections just like on Miller Park Way.  (Remember it is still named that south of National Avenue.)

[JoePCool14]

Sounds like this kind of conversion is inevitable. Kind of a shame though, I thought the current configuration worked well for going to Brewers games. And even if they don't connect to anything, freeway stubs are still cool from a roadgeek perspective.

A DDI for game-day traffic might work well. The majority of traffic would being going one way, so it might not cause much delay.

[dvferyance]

Sounds like this kind of conversion is inevitable. Kind of a shame though, I thought the current configuration worked well for going to Brewers games. And even if they don't connect to anything, freeway stubs are still cool from a roadgeek perspective.

A DDI for game-day traffic might work well. The majority of traffic would being going one way, so it might not cause much delay.

As long as it is there I see no reason to get rid of it. this makes no sense.

[SEWIGuy]

Sounds like this kind of conversion is inevitable. Kind of a shame though, I thought the current configuration worked well for going to Brewers games. And even if they don't connect to anything, freeway stubs are still cool from a roadgeek perspective.

A DDI for game-day traffic might work well. The majority of traffic would being going one way, so it might not cause much delay.

As long as it is there I see no reason to get rid of it. this makes no sense.

Of course it makes sense for multiple reasons.

First, if the concrete and bridges are toward the end of their lifespan, they need to be replaced.  What they are proposing is less expensive to both build and maintain. 

Second, a boulevard type of arrangement is going to be able to be developed and not act as a barrier between two neighborhoods like the stub of the highway north of I-94 now. 

[dvferyance]

Sounds like this kind of conversion is inevitable. Kind of a shame though, I thought the current configuration worked well for going to Brewers games. And even if they don't connect to anything, freeway stubs are still cool from a roadgeek perspective.

A DDI for game-day traffic might work well. The majority of traffic would being going one way, so it might not cause much delay.

As long as it is there I see no reason to get rid of it. this makes no sense.

Of course it makes sense for multiple reasons.

First, if the concrete and bridges are toward the end of their lifespan, they need to be replaced.  What they are proposing is less expensive to both build and maintain. 

Second, a boulevard type of arrangement is going to be able to be developed and not act as a barrier between two neighborhoods like the stub of the highway north of I-94 now.

Your last point makes no sense.

[SEWIGuy]

Sounds like this kind of conversion is inevitable. Kind of a shame though, I thought the current configuration worked well for going to Brewers games. And even if they don't connect to anything, freeway stubs are still cool from a roadgeek perspective.

A DDI for game-day traffic might work well. The majority of traffic would being going one way, so it might not cause much delay.

As long as it is there I see no reason to get rid of it. this makes no sense.

Of course it makes sense for multiple reasons.

First, if the concrete and bridges are toward the end of their lifespan, they need to be replaced.  What they are proposing is less expensive to both build and maintain. 

Second, a boulevard type of arrangement is going to be able to be developed and not act as a barrier between two neighborhoods like the stub of the highway north of I-94 now.

Your last point makes no sense.

Of course it does.  Why do you think the city is in support of this idea?  Compare the commercial development along Miller Park Way south of National Avenue over the last 30 years (multiple big box stores, restaurants, strip malls, etc.) with that north of I-94 (pretty much nothing.)  Getting rid of that short stub of a highway that serves very little purpose is going to do for that part of town what getting rid of the Park East Freeway did for downtown.  In retrospect, getting rid of the Park East was a BRILLIANT move - do people really complain about that freeway being gone anymore?

The Stadium North Freeway is basically useless.  It carries relatively little traffic over a distance of less than two miles.  Get rid of it and let the area breathe.

[FightingIrish]

Sounds like this kind of conversion is inevitable. Kind of a shame though, I thought the current configuration worked well for going to Brewers games. And even if they don't connect to anything, freeway stubs are still cool from a roadgeek perspective.

A DDI for game-day traffic might work well. The majority of traffic would being going one way, so it might not cause much delay.

As long as it is there I see no reason to get rid of it. this makes no sense.

The interchange definitely needs to be replaced. It's pretty old and gets very congested. Most importantly, the left exits have got to go.

I'm not sure what conversion of the north freeway will do for attracting retail business, since the terrain is very hilly, and the last mile or so before the terminus at North Avenue is a big county park. Plus, the area is not nearly as attractive to business as West Milwaukee, for obvious reasons. But a boulevard would still probably improve the aesthetics of the area overall.

As for expansion to the FDL freeway, that ship sailed back in the 70s. It will never happen.

[SEWIGuy]

Sounds like this kind of conversion is inevitable. Kind of a shame though, I thought the current configuration worked well for going to Brewers games. And even if they don't connect to anything, freeway stubs are still cool from a roadgeek perspective.

A DDI for game-day traffic might work well. The majority of traffic would being going one way, so it might not cause much delay.

As long as it is there I see no reason to get rid of it. this makes no sense.

The interchange definitely needs to be replaced. It's pretty old and gets very congested. Most importantly, the left exits have got to go.

I'm not sure what conversion of the north freeway will do for attracting retail business, since the terrain is very hilly, and the last mile or so before the terminus at North Avenue is a big county park. Plus, the area is not nearly as attractive to business as West Milwaukee, for obvious reasons. But a boulevard would still probably improve the aesthetics of the area overall.

As for expansion to the FDL freeway, that ship sailed back in the 70s. It will never happen.

I don't think you know this area well.  The census tracks along the Stadium North freeway have a higher annual income than those along Miller Park Way.

https://www.city-data.com/income/income-Milwaukee-Wisconsin.html

[skluth]

Sounds like this kind of conversion is inevitable. Kind of a shame though, I thought the current configuration worked well for going to Brewers games. And even if they don't connect to anything, freeway stubs are still cool from a roadgeek perspective.

A DDI for game-day traffic might work well. The majority of traffic would being going one way, so it might not cause much delay.

As long as it is there I see no reason to get rid of it. this makes no sense.

The interchange definitely needs to be replaced. It's pretty old and gets very congested. Most importantly, the left exits have got to go.

I'm not sure what conversion of the north freeway will do for attracting retail business, since the terrain is very hilly, and the last mile or so before the terminus at North Avenue is a big county park. Plus, the area is not nearly as attractive to business as West Milwaukee, for obvious reasons. But a boulevard would still probably improve the aesthetics of the area overall.

As for expansion to the FDL freeway, that ship sailed back in the 70s. It will never happen.

I don't think you know this area well.  The census tracks along the Stadium North freeway have a higher annual income than those along Miller Park Way.

https://www.city-data.com/income/income-Milwaukee-Wisconsin.html

I don't think the parkland along the corridor will change. However, I can see the triangle within 47th, Lloyd, and Lisbon being bought out and turned into similar development to that along Miller Park Way. (That recently happened to a not-very rundown neighborhood south of the I-64/170 interchange in suburban St Louis.) I also wouldn't be surprised to see State St towards Miller Valley becoming a popular commercial district. I'm sure somewhere there are design concepts out there for redevelopment that are just waiting for the interchange redesign to be finalized and speculators buying up property near the corridor hoping for profit.

[triplemultiplex]

I've done plenty of mulling about the Stadium North Freeway over the years.  In my opinion the topography is such that it makes sense to retain the overpasses and interchange for Wisconsin, Bluemound & Wells.  The freeway punches through a curve in the Menomonee Valley placing it below grade in such a way that sets up the bridge over the valley quite well.
Once the freeway touches down north of State St, that's where the real downgrade should start.  The current stub divides the Washington Heights neighborhood from Washington Park and there's a great opportunity to eliminate an underutilized freeway trench and provide a more seamless transition to and from the park.  Align the boulevard with 47th St and that frees up a nice strip of real estate to either attach to Washington Park or redevelop as housing or some mix of both.  I'm surprised we're not doing that part of it already.

Downgrading the Stadium Interchange to a DDI; I think that will function well enough, even with game traffic.  And really, it's not reasonable to demand that the interchange be overbuilt for all times that are not game days.  It's going to be way less expensive than the preferred alternative WisDOT was previously angling toward.  Like I wish WisDOT had gotten on the DDI bandwagon before they built that monstrously overbuilt interchange at The Zoo and Watertown Plank.  Good god that was dumb.  A DDI would have done the job just about as good for half the price.

Game day congestion in Milwaukee isn't really centered around the Stadium Interchange anyway.  It's all about cars getting stacked up at the left exit for Mitchell Blvd.  The right turn motion coming in from the west to get ya to the remote lots across the river from the stadium is the highest demand movement and that wouldn't even change if it was a DDI.  And smart people don't use the Stadium Interchange if they're coming in from the east.  No man, you bail at 25th and 'sneak in' via Canal St.  It's shorter and you don't have to try and merge in with all the impatient suburbanites.

[SEWIGuy]

I've done plenty of mulling about the Stadium North Freeway over the years.  In my opinion the topography is such that it makes sense to retain the overpasses and interchange for Wisconsin, Bluemound & Wells.  The freeway punches through a curve in the Menomonee Valley placing it below grade in such a way that sets up the bridge over the valley quite well.
Once the freeway touches down north of State St, that's where the real downgrade should start.  The current stub divides the Washington Heights neighborhood from Washington Park and there's a great opportunity to eliminate an underutilized freeway trench and provide a more seamless transition to and from the park.  Align the boulevard with 47th St and that frees up a nice strip of real estate to either attach to Washington Park or redevelop as housing or some mix of both.  I'm surprised we're not doing that part of it already.

Downgrading the Stadium Interchange to a DDI; I think that will function well enough, even with game traffic.  And really, it's not reasonable to demand that the interchange be overbuilt for all times that are not game days.  It's going to be way less expensive than the preferred alternative WisDOT was previously angling toward.  Like I wish WisDOT had gotten on the DDI bandwagon before they built that monstrously overbuilt interchange at The Zoo and Watertown Plank.  Good god that was dumb.  A DDI would have done the job just about as good for half the price.

Game day congestion in Milwaukee isn't really centered around the Stadium Interchange anyway.  It's all about cars getting stacked up at the left exit for Mitchell Blvd.  The right turn motion coming in from the west to get ya to the remote lots across the river from the stadium is the highest demand movement and that wouldn't even change if it was a DDI.  And smart people don't use the Stadium Interchange if they're coming in from the east.  No man, you bail at 25th and 'sneak in' via Canal St.  It's shorter and you don't have to try and merge in with all the impatient suburbanites.

Coming from the southwest, I would take I-43, Forest Home, 43rd Street to the stadium.  I could just zoom onto 43rd Street south after the game cause everyone wanted to get onto west I-94.

[Big John]

I-41 expansion scheduled to start in 2024.  Includes 55 MPH flyover ramps at STH 441, DDIs at STH 15, STH 47 and CTH E.  https://wtaq.com/2022/05/11/i-41-expansion-project-getting-closer/

[SEWIGuy]

I-41 expansion scheduled to start in 2024.  Includes 55 MPH flyover ramps at STH 441, DDIs at STH 15, STH 47 and CTH E.  https://wtaq.com/2022/05/11/i-41-expansion-project-getting-closer/

The proposed interchange is for the South Bridge Connector project.  What is the timing on that?

[hobsini2]

I've done plenty of mulling about the Stadium North Freeway over the years.  In my opinion the topography is such that it makes sense to retain the overpasses and interchange for Wisconsin, Bluemound & Wells.  The freeway punches through a curve in the Menomonee Valley placing it below grade in such a way that sets up the bridge over the valley quite well.
Once the freeway touches down north of State St, that's where the real downgrade should start.  The current stub divides the Washington Heights neighborhood from Washington Park and there's a great opportunity to eliminate an underutilized freeway trench and provide a more seamless transition to and from the park.  Align the boulevard with 47th St and that frees up a nice strip of real estate to either attach to Washington Park or redevelop as housing or some mix of both.  I'm surprised we're not doing that part of it already.

Downgrading the Stadium Interchange to a DDI; I think that will function well enough, even with game traffic.  And really, it's not reasonable to demand that the interchange be overbuilt for all times that are not game days.  It's going to be way less expensive than the preferred alternative WisDOT was previously angling toward.  Like I wish WisDOT had gotten on the DDI bandwagon before they built that monstrously overbuilt interchange at The Zoo and Watertown Plank.  Good god that was dumb.  A DDI would have done the job just about as good for half the price.

Game day congestion in Milwaukee isn't really centered around the Stadium Interchange anyway.  It's all about cars getting stacked up at the left exit for Mitchell Blvd.  The right turn motion coming in from the west to get ya to the remote lots across the river from the stadium is the highest demand movement and that wouldn't even change if it was a DDI.  And smart people don't use the Stadium Interchange if they're coming in from the east.  No man, you bail at 25th and 'sneak in' via Canal St.  It's shorter and you don't have to try and merge in with all the impatient suburbanites.

I was up at Miller Park 2 weekends ago. I took 94 to Miller Park Way (Brewers Blvd). The only backup I encounted 30 minutes before the game was exiting onto Canal St and then the line into the Uecker Parking. When we left, I did take Canal to 6th to get onto 94. It was much quicker.

[thspfc]

I suppose mileage varies, as when I go to Brewers games, there are typically 5-15 minute backups pregame along I-94 EB to WI-175 SB, and then similar backups postgame along WI-175 NB to I-94 WB.

[FightingIrish]

Sounds like this kind of conversion is inevitable. Kind of a shame though, I thought the current configuration worked well for going to Brewers games. And even if they don't connect to anything, freeway stubs are still cool from a roadgeek perspective.

A DDI for game-day traffic might work well. The majority of traffic would being going one way, so it might not cause much delay.

As long as it is there I see no reason to get rid of it. this makes no sense.

The interchange definitely needs to be replaced. It's pretty old and gets very congested. Most importantly, the left exits have got to go.

I'm not sure what conversion of the north freeway will do for attracting retail business, since the terrain is very hilly, and the last mile or so before the terminus at North Avenue is a big county park. Plus, the area is not nearly as attractive to business as West Milwaukee, for obvious reasons. But a boulevard would still probably improve the aesthetics of the area overall.

As for expansion to the FDL freeway, that ship sailed back in the 70s. It will never happen.

I don't think you know this area well.  The census tracks along the Stadium North freeway have a higher annual income than those along Miller Park Way.

https://www.city-data.com/income/income-Milwaukee-Wisconsin.html

I live a couple miles from the stadium. I know the area well.

[SEWIGuy]

Sounds like this kind of conversion is inevitable. Kind of a shame though, I thought the current configuration worked well for going to Brewers games. And even if they don't connect to anything, freeway stubs are still cool from a roadgeek perspective.

A DDI for game-day traffic might work well. The majority of traffic would being going one way, so it might not cause much delay.

As long as it is there I see no reason to get rid of it. this makes no sense.

The interchange definitely needs to be replaced. It's pretty old and gets very congested. Most importantly, the left exits have got to go.

I'm not sure what conversion of the north freeway will do for attracting retail business, since the terrain is very hilly, and the last mile or so before the terminus at North Avenue is a big county park. Plus, the area is not nearly as attractive to business as West Milwaukee, for obvious reasons. But a boulevard would still probably improve the aesthetics of the area overall.

As for expansion to the FDL freeway, that ship sailed back in the 70s. It will never happen.

I don't think you know this area well.  The census tracks along the Stadium North freeway have a higher annual income than those along Miller Park Way.

https://www.city-data.com/income/income-Milwaukee-Wisconsin.html

I live a couple miles from the stadium. I know the area well.

Well, I don't think you are aware of the neighborhood around the Stadium Freeway.  There is plenty of money in the Washington Highlands part of Tosa, and the Washington Heights part of Milwaukee, not to mention Hi Mount, etc. 

[mgk920]

I-41 expansion scheduled to start in 2024.  Includes 55 MPH flyover ramps at STH 441, DDIs at STH 15, STH 47 and CTH E.  https://wtaq.com/2022/05/11/i-41-expansion-project-getting-closer/

Just thinking about when that then US 41 bypass freeway was built and opened across the north metro area in about 1960, it was all well outside the city in a rural farming area, with little traffic and NO development.  It is amazing how that entire area has changed.

Mike

[FightingIrish]

Sounds like this kind of conversion is inevitable. Kind of a shame though, I thought the current configuration worked well for going to Brewers games. And even if they don't connect to anything, freeway stubs are still cool from a roadgeek perspective.

A DDI for game-day traffic might work well. The majority of traffic would being going one way, so it might not cause much delay.

As long as it is there I see no reason to get rid of it. this makes no sense.

The interchange definitely needs to be replaced. It's pretty old and gets very congested. Most importantly, the left exits have got to go.

I'm not sure what conversion of the north freeway will do for attracting retail business, since the terrain is very hilly, and the last mile or so before the terminus at North Avenue is a big county park. Plus, the area is not nearly as attractive to business as West Milwaukee, for obvious reasons. But a boulevard would still probably improve the aesthetics of the area overall.

As for expansion to the FDL freeway, that ship sailed back in the 70s. It will never happen.

I don't think you know this area well.  The census tracks along the Stadium North freeway have a higher annual income than those along Miller Park Way.

https://www.city-data.com/income/income-Milwaukee-Wisconsin.html

I live a couple miles from the stadium. I know the area well.

Well, I don't think you are aware of the neighborhood around the Stadium Freeway.  There is plenty of money in the Washington Highlands part of Tosa, and the Washington Heights part of Milwaukee, not to mention Hi Mount, etc.

Sorry, I just don't see many big-box retail possibilities in Washington Heights. Not enough space, and the mansion folks likely won't go for retail zones around there. If there's any further retail possibilities, either State St. or Vliet St. are really the only possibilities I see. Those residents are likely already doing their grocery shopping at Metro Market, Metcalfe's or Outpost on State.

Plus, the part that isn't on an incline transitioning toward the Menomonee Valley borders Washington Park (the part most often discussed as transitioning to a boulevard). North of Lisbon, well, the area needs a lot of improvement. There used to be a bank right at that intersection that was ripe for robberies, since criminals could just jump right on the freeway and disappear. It became a clinic, and last I checked, the building was razed.

[triplemultiplex]

Oh yes, big box stores would be a poor fit for redeveloping land vacated by the freeway north of State.  You're looking at low-rise mixed-use development, small apartment buildings and townhouses.

I'd align the boulevard along the east edge of the r/w and then build houses and stuff between the boulevard and 47th St. I think the surface street replacement could even be a two-lane undivided facility, based on what I remember about traffic on Stadium North.  It would look something like Swan Blvd in 'Tosa, but with the park to the east and new homes to the west.

[gr8daynegb]

I-41 expansion scheduled to start in 2024.  Includes 55 MPH flyover ramps at STH 441, DDIs at STH 15, STH 47 and CTH E.  https://wtaq.com/2022/05/11/i-41-expansion-project-getting-closer/

Just thinking about when that then US 41 bypass freeway was built and opened across the north metro area in about 1960, it was all well outside the city in a rural farming area, with little traffic and NO development.  It is amazing how that entire area has changed.

Mike

I always am amazed looking at Lambeau Field pictures(when US 41 pasted the stadium) when they show the stadium when it was first built.  From stadium with a corn field in sight to what it is now again is amazing to what has happened in this 5-060 year timeline