Wisconsin notes

[JoePCool14]

I just noticed today that WisDOT has rolled back STH 83 from STH 175 to STH 60 in Hartford. What was 83 going north are now city streets, and becomes CTH R north of town.

Not much of a surprise, since 83 north of Hartford is pretty much a lightly used rural road that kind of just peters out at 175.

Wonder if that's what they used to create the mileage for WI-311. It's the same WIDOT region and roughly the same length.

If so, what a trade-off lol

[The Ghostbuster]

That's probably the case, although I question how necessary the commissioning of STH 311 was.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

I had not heard about the new WIS 311, and after looking it up and what its purpose is...yeah, I will say no more. 

[dvferyance]

I just noticed today that WisDOT has rolled back STH 83 from STH 175 to STH 60 in Hartford. What was 83 going north are now city streets, and becomes CTH R north of town.

Not much of a surprise, since 83 north of Hartford is pretty much a lightly used rural road that kind of just peters out at 175.

Wonder if that's what they used to create the mileage for WI-311. It's the same WIDOT region and roughly the same length.

That route is probably more useless than WI-134.

[The Ghostbuster]

The difference is that STH 134 has existed between its present terminuses since 1923, and STH 311 was only commissioned in 2021 (the first new state highway since STH 318 was commissioned in 2017). I think STH 318's commissioning was logical, while STH 311's was not.

[SEWIGuy]

Is it written into law that WI-311 has to be part of the state highway system as part of the whole Foxconn nonsense? If so, they may as well number it. Otherwise its an odd choice for a state highway.

But regardless if WI-311 was the reason, decommissioning WI-83 north of WI-60 is a defensible decision.

[GeekJedi]

I would think that at some point STH 144 is on WisDOT's radar for potential decommissioning. They've already rolled back both ends over the years (though the west side was due to Slinger's insistence).

[hobsini2]

I would think that at some point STH 144 is on WisDOT's radar for potential decommissioning. They've already rolled back both ends over the years (though the west side was due to Slinger's insistence).

I would think Wis 127 would be higher on the list of decommission possibilities than Wis 144. The only reason 127 is a state highway is because it was an old routing for 16. But it does not serve any real purpose that current 16 does not currently do. So that would put 14 miles in the mileage bank. I still think a mileage cap is fine to be in place but I think it was set too low for future routes that would make sense.

[SEWIGuy]

WI-134, a good portion of WI-175, etc.  IDK, I think its mostly about balancing out who pays for what these days instead of navigation.

[GeekJedi]

WI-134, a good portion of WI-175, etc.  IDK, I think its mostly about balancing out who pays for what these days instead of navigation.

I wonder if the reason for hanging on to STH 175 is because they use it as a signed alternate route for Hwy 41.

[SEWIGuy]

WI-134, a good portion of WI-175, etc.  IDK, I think its mostly about balancing out who pays for what these days instead of navigation.

I wonder if the reason for hanging on to STH 175 is because they use it as a signed alternate route for Hwy 41.

I wonder if it was a deal struck a long time ago that it would remain on the state highway system when US-41 was built. 

[JoePCool14]

Reminds me of IL-251 paralleling I-39 and the aptly-related US-51.

[Big John]

Then cases like in Georgia where US 41 parallels I-75

[SSOWorld]

Reminds me of IL-251 paralleling I-39 and the aptly-related US-51.

IMO 251 should have remained 51.  Having that it was on the freeway before 39 was put in place complicates that - one can't really move 51 back to it

[hobsini2]

Reminds me of IL-251 paralleling I-39 and the aptly-related US-51.

IMO 251 should have remained 51.  Having that it was on the freeway before 39 was put in place complicates that - one can't really move 51 back to it

Sure you could. There is precedent in Illinois in fact. I give you Route 53. Route 53 was originally on Rohlwing Rd before the freeway segment from Army Trail Rd to I-290 was built. When the freeway was built, 53 moved onto the freeway. Until I-355 was slapped on it with the extension south. 53 then returned back to Rohlwing Rd.

[triplemultiplex]

Well sure, that's a state route. With a US route, you gotta go thru the feds to move the designation and they usually resist moving US routes off of freeways after they've been moved to freeways.  Usually.  There is some precedent out there, but generally they're gonna want it to stay.

[FightingIrish]

I just noticed today that WisDOT has rolled back STH 83 from STH 175 to STH 60 in Hartford. What was 83 going north are now city streets, and becomes CTH R north of town.

Not much of a surprise, since 83 north of Hartford is pretty much a lightly used rural road that kind of just peters out at 175.

Wonder if that's what they used to create the mileage for WI-311. It's the same WIDOT region and roughly the same length.

WISDOT does highway swaps by county. And seeing as WIS 83 is in Dodge County and WIS 311 is in Racine County, there really is no tradeoff there.

Am example of a county mileage trade would be what happened a few years ago in Waukesha County. To complete the western section of Les Paul Parkway, they decommissioned WIS 74 a few miles northeast of there.

[Molandfreak]

Well sure, that's a state route. With a US route, you gotta go thru the feds to move the designation and they usually resist moving US routes off of freeways after they've been moved to freeways.  Usually.  There is some precedent out there, but generally they're gonna want it to stay.

I'm sure they would be fine with moving it onto a free alternate to a toll road.

[mgk920]

WI 175 is now a lettered county highway north of US 151.  The part in Oshkosh north of US 45 is now city streets.

Mike

[TheHighwayMan3561]

Well sure, that's a state route. With a US route, you gotta go thru the feds to move the designation and they usually resist moving US routes off of freeways after they've been moved to freeways.  Usually.  There is some precedent out there, but generally they're gonna want it to stay.

Or in the case of US 87 in Wyoming, refuse to allow the route to be rerouted over another surface road because they want it all on the freeway.

[SEWIGuy]

I didn't mean to start a debate about what happens in other states - this is the "Wisconsin" topic after all.

My point is that in a state with a capped mileage, Wisconsin has a lot of highways that parallel freeways (US-12, WI-16, WI-175)  In some cases that might be absolutely legit. In others, I question their importance.  For instance, you can actually see US-12 from I-94 as you drive from the Dells north to Black River Falls.  I think you can legit put US-12 on the interstate between that stretch and free up about 75 miles that could better be used elsewhere.

[skluth]

WI-134, a good portion of WI-175, etc.  IDK, I think its mostly about balancing out who pays for what these days instead of navigation.

I wonder if the reason for hanging on to STH 175 is because they use it as a signed alternate route for Hwy 41.

WI 175 could have been reverted to US 41 had Wisconsin not been so insistent on the duplicative I-41.

[dvferyance]

Is it written into law that WI-311 has to be part of the state highway system as part of the whole Foxconn nonsense? If so, they may as well number it. Otherwise its an odd choice for a state highway.

But regardless if WI-311 was the reason, decommissioning WI-83 north of WI-60 is a defensible decision.

It would have made tons more sense to extend 142 to 31. Than it was to create 311.

[The Ghostbuster]

STH 142 used to extend to STH 32 in Kenosha, but it was retracted to the Interstate 94 interchange (now Interstates 41/94) in the early 1990s. Old 142 is now CTH S.

[US 12 fan]

I still say that they should have made 311 a county highway because it still makes no sense.