Wisconsin notes

[Mrt90]

Kenosha was able to annex its way across I-94 to keep it's population growth up for a while there, but now like it's neighbor just up the coast, they're hemmed in by other villages/cities.  Kind of interesting that Racine and Kenosha have basically switched population sizes in the last 50 years.  If not for Kenosha's aggressive annexations, that wouldn't have happened.

Late to this topic but Kenosha still has a lot of room to grow, I could see at least another 10k given the right subdivisions.  Racine is locked in at Green Bay road so there is literally no open space, while there is still plenty of open space in Kenosha west of Green Bay Road to I94/I41 and beyond even though the Somers / Pleasant Prairie / Bristol borders are locked.

[GeekJedi]

Anyone know why there is a sign listing exits on I-794 way back in Waukesha County? This is on 94 EB between Moorland and the Zoo Interchange. I would expect this sign to be placed somewhere around the stadium interchange area.

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0251596,-88.0910322,3a,45y,91.68h,88.24t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shpWXlKGQVggTO8JwQQQMsA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

Simple - those are "attractions" that visitors might visit. It gives them the information early enough as to not get confused at the Marquette.

[US 12 fan]

Apparently Highway 20 and Highway 32 are going to be rerouted in Racine.

https://journaltimes.com/news/local/state-trunk-highways-20-and-32-to-be-removed-from-downtown/article_f847e04c-4c2e-11ee-9036-ff9878ef73e7.html#tracking-source=mp-homepage

[SEWIGuy]

Apparently Highway 20 and Highway 32 are going to be rerouted in Racine.

https://journaltimes.com/news/local/state-trunk-highways-20-and-32-to-be-removed-from-downtown/article_f847e04c-4c2e-11ee-9036-ff9878ef73e7.html#tracking-source=mp-homepage

Wonder if they will get rid of the WI-20 concurrency.  Or will it end at State Street?

Also, State Street between Marquette and Main will have a wrong way concurrency with WI-38.

[US 12 fan]

I wonder if they will truncate Highway 38 in that area so that does not happen.

[The Ghostbuster]

STH 38 probably would be truncated to the State St./Marquette St./Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Dr. intersection. I don't have any problems with this proposal save for the one-way to two-way street conversions. I prefer one-way streets since they improve traffic flow compared to a two-way street, and you only have to look in one direction when you cross the street on foot. These conversions are stupid, and I strongly believe that they cause more problems than they solve.

[SEWIGuy]

STH 38 probably would be truncated to the State St./Marquette St./Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Dr. intersection. I don't have any problems with this proposal save for the one-way to two-way street conversions. I prefer one-way streets since they improve traffic flow compared to a two-way street, and you only have to look in one direction when you cross the street on foot. These conversions are stupid, and I strongly believe that they cause more problems than they solve.

In the right situation, and I think a downtown location is usually the right situation, I think it's wonderful. You are correct that it slows traffic flow, but that's what these cities want when they make their downtowns more pedestrian friendly. Cars can slow down for a few blocks - its not that inconvenient.

[JoePCool14]

Apparently Highway 20 and Highway 32 are going to be rerouted in Racine.

https://journaltimes.com/news/local/state-trunk-highways-20-and-32-to-be-removed-from-downtown/article_f847e04c-4c2e-11ee-9036-ff9878ef73e7.html#tracking-source=mp-homepage

Good timing considering what I just wrote the other day, at least regarding the lane reduction on Main St:

I'd actually like to see something similar implemented down in Racine. Their Main Street carries STH-32 and is mostly four lanes plus parallel parking. It's very tight to get through, even at the posted speed of 25. In theory, all the four lanes are doing is allowing for additional flow to get through, but I'm not sure it's necessary these days. Changing it to a three lane setup would likely be an improvement.

[dvferyance]

Apparently Highway 20 and Highway 32 are going to be rerouted in Racine.

https://journaltimes.com/news/local/state-trunk-highways-20-and-32-to-be-removed-from-downtown/article_f847e04c-4c2e-11ee-9036-ff9878ef73e7.html#tracking-source=mp-homepage

Wonder if they will get rid of the WI-20 concurrency.  Or will it end at State Street?

Also, State Street between Marquette and Main will have a wrong way concurrency with WI-38.

Wisconsin is notoriously know for a lot of redundant and illogical concurrencies. I am not going to get into them all but the 20/32 one in Racine is a perfect example of one.

[GeekJedi]

Apparently Highway 20 and Highway 32 are going to be rerouted in Racine.

https://journaltimes.com/news/local/state-trunk-highways-20-and-32-to-be-removed-from-downtown/article_f847e04c-4c2e-11ee-9036-ff9878ef73e7.html#tracking-source=mp-homepage

Wonder if they will get rid of the WI-20 concurrency.  Or will it end at State Street?

Also, State Street between Marquette and Main will have a wrong way concurrency with WI-38.

Wisconsin is notoriously know for a lot of redundant and illogical concurrencies. I am not going to get into them all but the 20/32 one in Racine is a perfect example of one.

You're totally right. I know that many of these concurrencies made sense at the dawn of the state highway network, but many of them are now just remnants of a bygone era.

[peterj920]

Apparently Highway 20 and Highway 32 are going to be rerouted in Racine.

https://journaltimes.com/news/local/state-trunk-highways-20-and-32-to-be-removed-from-downtown/article_f847e04c-4c2e-11ee-9036-ff9878ef73e7.html#tracking-source=mp-homepage

Wonder if they will get rid of the WI-20 concurrency.  Or will it end at State Street?

Also, State Street between Marquette and Main will have a wrong way concurrency with WI-38.

Wisconsin is notoriously know for a lot of redundant and illogical concurrencies. I am not going to get into them all but the 20/32 one in Racine is a perfect example of one.

You're totally right. I know that many of these concurrencies made sense at the dawn of the state highway network, but many of them are now just remnants of a bygone era.

I think a lot of them are to route or connect state highways with a road or city. I think the Wis 20 concurrency is to connect Wis 20 with Downtown Racine and traffic can follow 20 West to I-94. Another recent example is Wis 91 in Oshkosh that runs concurrent with Wis 44 which was routed to connect Berlin with I-41. Wis 70/Wis 101, Wis 47/Wis 182 probably have dual endings to make it easier to follow one route to its destination.

Wis 32 is the only concurrency written into law because the highway had to go from Michigan to Illinois and is the only reason why it has a long concurrency with US 45. The Wis 42 original routing made the most sense along Lake Michigan from Door Co to Kenosha but fell victim to making Wis 32 mandatory to run from state line to state line.

[The Ghostbuster]

The STH 70/101 duplex has existed since 1949, when 70 was extended from STH 55 south of Alvin eastward to its present terminus. STH 101 has existed since STH 14 (now US 8) was rerouted at Armstrong Creek to end at STH 57 (now US 141) south of Pembine in 1923. The STH 47/182 duplex was originally a CTH-F/CTH-G duplex, before G was replaced by 182 in 1948, and 47 replaced F in 1952. Other duplexes to a common terminus include STH 71/108: co-designated since 1923 (108 was designated in 1919 and 71 was extended from Elroy to Melrose four years later); and STH 48/STH 87, also co-designated since 1923. As for STH 20, I think it should have ended at STH 32 and not been co-designated together. I'm not sure if 20 was also co-designated with 32's predecessors: STH 15 (1923-1930), STH 17 (1917-1926), and STH 42 (1930-1951). It would depend on whether those routes followed the same alignment through Racine as STH 32.

[peterj920]

I see WISDOT is celebrating the completion of the frontage road resurfacing in Racine County along I-94. Checked the trunkline map and they say that the frontage roads are WISDOT maintained. I wonder how WISDOT kept ownership of the road after I-94 was rebuilt? I could understand when the ramps were braided and tied into the frontage roads but they are now separated from the ramps.

[The Ghostbuster]

Celebrating resurfacing a roadway? I can understand celebrating the completion of a reconstructed roadway, but celebrating the completion of a resurfacing seems a little much to me.

[JREwing78]

I wonder how WISDOT kept ownership of the road after I-94 was rebuilt? I could understand when the ramps were braided and tied into the frontage roads but they are now separated from the ramps.

How? It's not like WisDOT would automatically lose jurisdiction of the roadway. WisDOT could elect to transfer jurisdiction over the frontage roads to Racine County or the townships they travel through IF both parties agreed to it, but it could also elect to hang onto the roadway. Apparently WisDOT found it more expedient to maintain the frontage roads itself - and that makes sense given their symbiotic relationship to the main I-41/94 roadway, and their previous history of being the access points to the freeway.

There's other areas that download the frontage roads to local municipalities, and WisDOT has done the same elsewhere. But it's generally in areas where there's less of a need for them to be continuous or built to a particular standard.

There's also a non-zero chance in the future of I-41/94 needing further widening and requiring the ROW that the frontage roads occupy. It makes little sense to download them to local municipalties just to turn around and have to reclaim them with eminent domain.

[JoePCool14]

I've noticed the resurfaced Frontage Roads up there, and I have to say, it's hilarious how Frontage Roads get better treatment than mainline state highways in Illinois. Wonder what the IDOT-lover's take is on that one. 

[mgk920]

I've noticed the resurfaced Frontage Roads up there, and I have to say, it's hilarious how Frontage Roads get better treatment than mainline state highways in Illinois. Wonder what the IDOT-lover's take is on that one. 

I've always regarded rural IDOT state highw . . er . . routes to be a step below the average Wisconsin county highways in quality.

Mike

[hobsini2]

I've noticed the resurfaced Frontage Roads up there, and I have to say, it's hilarious how Frontage Roads get better treatment than mainline state highways in Illinois. Wonder what the IDOT-lover's take is on that one. 

I've always regarded rural IDOT state highw . . er . . routes to be a step below the average Wisconsin county highways in quality.

Mike

But Crash It says that we are all delusional. Illinois' asphalt is great.

[SSOWorld]

I've noticed the resurfaced Frontage Roads up there, and I have to say, it's hilarious how Frontage Roads get better treatment than mainline state highways in Illinois. Wonder what the IDOT-lover's take is on that one. 

I've always regarded rural IDOT state highw . . er . . routes to be a step below the average Wisconsin county highways in quality.

Mike

But Crash It says that we are all delusional. Illinois' asphalt is great.

Can we leave that behind?

[peterj920]

I noticed on US 14 west of Madison the mileage signs are replaced with a big emphasis on La Crosse. The new signs show the next nearest town and La Crosse is second now. I wonder why the change? The mileage for Spring Green was shown in Middleton but doesn't appear until after Arena with the new pattern of next city, then La Crosse.

It seems like WISDOT was removing long range mileage signs from 2 lane highways. There used to be long range mileage signs for Madison on the 2 lane stretch of US 151 west of Chilton but new signs only have mileage signs for Fond Du Lac.

Even weirder is that on US 18 in Ventura, Iowa there is a Madison 237 sign and Iowa has mileage signs to Madison. After entering Wisconsin, mileage signs to Madison on US 18 disappear until Dodgeville. Seems like the signage is very inconsistent.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

Even weirder is that on US 18 in Ventura, Iowa there is a Madison 237 sign and Iowa has mileage signs to Madison. After entering Wisconsin, mileage signs to Madison on US 18 disappear until Dodgeville. Seems like the signage is very inconsistent.

Minnesota has two mileage signs for Madison on I-94 east of 494/694 in Woodbury, before those disappear in Wisconsin in favor of Eau Claire.

[thspfc]

Even weirder is that on US 18 in Ventura, Iowa there is a Madison 237 sign and Iowa has mileage signs to Madison. After entering Wisconsin, mileage signs to Madison on US 18 disappear until Dodgeville. Seems like the signage is very inconsistent.

Minnesota has two mileage signs for Madison on I-94 east of 494/694 in Woodbury, before those disappear in Wisconsin in favor of Eau Claire.

That's an interesting case. Personally, in MN I would go with Hudson - Madison - Chicago, and in WI, (next town) - Eau Claire - Madison. Dropping Chicago as you get closer is weird, but 1) the point gets across to long-distance traffic coming from/through the Twin Cities, and 2) there are many cities that are more helpful to Wisconsin natives: Eau Claire, Tomah, Wisconsin Dells, Portage, Madison, Milwaukee.

[SEWIGuy]

Mileage signs and control cities are the strangest AARoads obsession. I don't they matter nearly as much as th bandwidth here suggests.

[invincor]

Even weirder is that on US 18 in Ventura, Iowa there is a Madison 237 sign and Iowa has mileage signs to Madison. After entering Wisconsin, mileage signs to Madison on US 18 disappear until Dodgeville. Seems like the signage is very inconsistent.

Minnesota has two mileage signs for Madison on I-94 east of 494/694 in Woodbury, before those disappear in Wisconsin in favor of Eau Claire.

I don't think this is true anymore.  The mileage signs on I-94 itself in that stretch only list the next three exits.  On 494 and 694 approaching 94, the control cities have mostly been changed with an Eau Claire sign pasted over the top of the old Madison one.  This was done at the same time the interchange had some reconstruction done in recent years.  There is still one Madison sign that's escaped this, though I can't quite recall where exactly it is now.

[EpicRoadways]

Even weirder is that on US 18 in Ventura, Iowa there is a Madison 237 sign and Iowa has mileage signs to Madison. After entering Wisconsin, mileage signs to Madison on US 18 disappear until Dodgeville. Seems like the signage is very inconsistent.

Minnesota has two mileage signs for Madison on I-94 east of 494/694 in Woodbury, before those disappear in Wisconsin in favor of Eau Claire.

I don't think this is true anymore.  The mileage signs on I-94 itself in that stretch only list the next three exits.  On 494 and 694 approaching 94, the control cities have mostly been changed with an Eau Claire sign pasted over the top of the old Madison one.  This was done at the same time the interchange had some reconstruction done in recent years.  There is still one Madison sign that's escaped this, though I can't quite recall where exactly it is now.

There were two Madison signs that survived the 494/694 interchange reconstruction. Here and here. Both were removed as of late August as a result of a different project, but the GSV (early 2023) only shows the first of the two signs removed. A couple of references to Madison still exist on distance signs east of the 494/694 interchange before the WI border, but these signs are scheduled to be replaced as part of a reconstruction project over the next year or so. My money would be on the new signs having Eau Claire listed instead of Madison, or maybe even just opting for local roads entirely until the border.