Wisconsin notes

[JMAN_WiS&S]

The CTH T corridor from USH 12/CTH 312 in Eau Claire to STH 29 in the Town of Wheaton has been officially mapped with construction hopefully commencing before 2030 to widen the highway to a 4 lane divided expressway, with a few intersection closures and roundabouts for those that remain. An overpass at the railroad is also planned. The addition of the Country Jam USA music festival to this area of town will likely accelerate this project. Previous talks within the DOT suggested realigning US 12 down this new divided highway, and terminating CTH T at STH 29. To satisfy Elk Mound, DOT would to extend STH 40 from its current southern terminus at STH 29, onto the freshly vacated former USH 12 through Elk Mound and terminate STH 40 at STH 312 just east of I-94 in Eau Claire. It is my understanding that Dunn and Chippewa county were not fully onboard with this for some reason. These talks likely happened many years ago at this point.

Interesting news. Any upgrades to the existing interchanges at STH 312 and STH 29?

The official project limits only span from Alpine Rd in Eau Claire to 33rd Ave in Wheaton, and I'm not sure if DOT will see fit improvements at 29, but I'm sure some may come eventually. I'd really like to see roundabouts at CTH X & CTH T, both 29 ramps, and replace the signal at 33rd Ave with a roundabout. As part of the widening project, roundabouts are currently planned for 30th Ave, 20th Ave and County Line Rd, with most of the other side roads either being cul-de-sac'd or turned into right-in-right-outs. I'd also like to see signal upgrades at Alpine Rd. There really should be a pedestrian connection between Alpine Rd and Truax Blvd. There's a sidewalk on the east side of the overpass over 312 right now but nothing is connected to it. The CTH T widening project also is going to include a multiuse path the entire length, so it would only make sense it connects somewhere. Really there should also be a multiuse path along the east side of USH 12 between Menomonie St & here but ROW may be a little tight for that.

[JoePCool14]

Hi all,

...

Waterborne paint went from 4" and 8" to 6" and 10" statewide for the 2023 painting season for retraces. 6/10 inch paint should've been included in all November 2023 let projects for next year. All epoxy retraces moving forward will be 6/10 inch. Freeway/Interstate lane lines (skips) for concrete surfaces will be moving from the former 2+4+2 black+white+black "oreo" pattern will now be painted in white/black lag full 6" pattern, like our neighbors down south and potentially elsewhere. Please let me know where you see the first application of this!

Greetings! Appreciate the insight of what's going on up in Wisconsin. Just wanted to clarify, is WisDOT switching to this? From the Borman Expressway in NW Indiana.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/euThzbn7AcuZ69hk9

I've already noticed the increased width in paint being used on my last trip out to Platteville in the SW Region. But I haven't seen any of the white/black alternating pattern yet.

And while I'm at it, where's the best place to submit comments/missing sign reports or ask questions to WisDOT? Would it be these regional email addresses?
https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/about-wisdot/who-we-are/dtsd/dtsd-region-offices.aspx

[JMAN_WiS&S]

Hi all,

...

Waterborne paint went from 4" and 8" to 6" and 10" statewide for the 2023 painting season for retraces. 6/10 inch paint should've been included in all November 2023 let projects for next year. All epoxy retraces moving forward will be 6/10 inch. Freeway/Interstate lane lines (skips) for concrete surfaces will be moving from the former 2+4+2 black+white+black "oreo" pattern will now be painted in white/black lag full 6" pattern, like our neighbors down south and potentially elsewhere. Please let me know where you see the first application of this!

Greetings! Appreciate the insight of what's going on up in Wisconsin. Just wanted to clarify, is WisDOT switching to this? From the Borman Expressway in NW Indiana.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/euThzbn7AcuZ69hk9

I've already noticed the increased width in paint being used on my last trip out to Platteville in the SW Region. But I haven't seen any of the white/black alternating pattern yet.

And while I'm at it, where's the best place to submit comments/missing sign reports or ask questions to WisDOT? Would it be these regional email addresses?
https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/about-wisdot/who-we-are/dtsd/dtsd-region-offices.aspx

Yep! Thats exactly what we are switching to for freeways/interstates. I don't think we did any this year though. Good chance some will appear next year.

In regard to region contacts, those email addresses are great places to start. If those people cannot answer your question, they will certainly ask around to get an answer. I work closely with the signing and marking people currently, so I can try my best to answer questions with my own knowledge or ask for NW region stuff, however Type 1 signing decisions are made in Madison, not locally.

[mgk920]

Oakwood Mall's sister Fox River Mall here in the Appleton area is also in a serious, inexorable  long-term decline (as I often say, "malls are sooooo last century!"), but in its case, the unincorporated township that it is in has shown no interest in doing anything about it.  The truly poor streets around it are so bad that they embarrass me as a City of Appleton resident.  IMHO, it is a sad statement regarding that aspect of statewide affairs in Wisconsin.

BTW, welcome abroad, we love the insight of the professionally trained.

Mike

[gbgoose]

Oakwood Mall's sister Fox River Mall here in the Appleton area is also in a serious, inexorable  long-term decline (as I often say, "malls are sooooo last century!"), but in its case, the unincorporated township that it is in has shown no interest in doing anything about it.  The truly poor streets around it are so bad that they embarrass me as a City of Appleton resident.  IMHO, it is a sad statement regarding that aspect of statewide affairs in Wisconsin.

BTW, welcome abroad, we love the insight of the professionally trained.

Mike

I also live in that unincorporated township and near the mall area, and I can't say I've seen too many, if any places that take so little interest in maintaining their roads.  There are so many roads in the township that need additional street lighting in their residential areas - to the point that I'm actually surprised there aren't more accidents here.   

The "band-aid" project on Greenville Dr that completed earlier this year should have been a widening with all of the traffic between the mall and the Amazon Distribution Center.

[invincor]

Hello JMAN, and welcome.  Nice to have you here. 

I have a pair of questions for you.

1) US 10 in Pierce County between Prescott and Ellsworth has been slated for reconstruction in 2024, however, I've heard rumors that this might be delayed due to a budget crunch.  Have you any update on this you could share?

2) 25 years ago or so I was in touch with someone in your office about the idea that someday in the future, CTH F between Prescott and Hudson could be upgraded to a state highway, and have WIS 35 routed onto it, keeping it nice and close to the border without dog-legging to River Falls anymore.  They said at the time that while traffic counts would seem to justify it, the counties involved have allowed too many private driveways to have highway access there and would need to cut those back to a level that's considered safe on a state highway before such an upgrade could happen.  There was also the matter of the cap on state highway mileage and there not being a logical nearby state highway downgrade available to trade.  Do you know if either of these situations has changed over these many years?   
(and btw, the expressway WIS 35 between Hudson and River Falls would get a new number in that scenario if it ever came to pass, something like WI 594.).

[mgk920]

Oakwood Mall's sister Fox River Mall here in the Appleton area is also in a serious, inexorable  long-term decline (as I often say, "malls are sooooo last century!"), but in its case, the unincorporated township that it is in has shown no interest in doing anything about it.  The truly poor streets around it are so bad that they embarrass me as a City of Appleton resident.  IMHO, it is a sad statement regarding that aspect of statewide affairs in Wisconsin.

BTW, welcome abroad, we love the insight of the professionally trained.

Mike

I also live in that unincorporated township and near the mall area, and I can't say I've seen too many, if any places that take so little interest in maintaining their roads.  There are so many roads in the township that need additional street lighting in their residential areas - to the point that I'm actually surprised there aren't more accidents here.   

The "band-aid" project on Greenville Dr that completed earlier this year should have been a widening with all of the traffic between the mall and the Amazon Distribution Center.

I work driving in that area and even I have no idea what the township did there. However, Greenville Dr there is still a county highway (Outagamie County 'GV'), downgraded from a previous state highway (WI 76).  If I were the Traffic God there, I would downgrade it to a local street, running it as a quiet tree-lined boulevard from the roundabout at County 'CB' to a new three-legged roundabout at Casaloma Dr.  That would allow the overpowered intersection at Wisconsin Av (WI 96/old US 10) and the north mall entrance to be rebuilt to more normal proportions and Greenville Dr there to be vacated and returned to the tax rolls as the mall inexorably dies.  I would also build a new crossover westward from the roundabout at County 'CB'/Greenville Dr to feed directly into School Rd to the west.  Yes, that entire area needs serious street lighting and sidewalks, too.  Governments can and regularly do recklessly spend too much pvblic treasure, but they certainly can and often do recklessly spend too little.  BTW, WisDOT has been replacing the stop and go lights on Wisconsin Av west of the city over the past few months to the newer style of one vertical head per lane overhead mast arms (Yuck!).

Mike

[The Ghostbuster]

Is W. Greenville Ave. (CTH-GV) being expanded to four lanes between Casaloma Dr. and the roundabout at N. McCarthy Rd.? The Satellite images show construction along that segment of W. Greenville Ave., but the Street View images (From August 2018) pre-date the shown expansion and the construction of the roundabout.

[mgk920]

Is W. Greenville Ave. (CTH-GV) being expanded to four lanes between Casaloma Dr. and the roundabout at N. McCarthy Rd.? The Satellite images show construction along that segment of W. Greenville Ave., but the Street View images (From August 2018) pre-date the shown expansion and the construction of the roundabout.

Away from the intersections, Greenville Dr is still in the profile of the old two lane WI 76.

Mike

[dvferyance]

Oakwood Mall's sister Fox River Mall here in the Appleton area is also in a serious, inexorable  long-term decline (as I often say, "malls are sooooo last century!"), but in its case, the unincorporated township that it is in has shown no interest in doing anything about it.  The truly poor streets around it are so bad that they embarrass me as a City of Appleton resident.  IMHO, it is a sad statement regarding that aspect of statewide affairs in Wisconsin.

BTW, welcome abroad, we love the insight of the professionally trained.

Mike

Why doesn't Appleton just annex it?

[SEWIGuy]

Oakwood Mall's sister Fox River Mall here in the Appleton area is also in a serious, inexorable  long-term decline (as I often say, "malls are sooooo last century!"), but in its case, the unincorporated township that it is in has shown no interest in doing anything about it.  The truly poor streets around it are so bad that they embarrass me as a City of Appleton resident.  IMHO, it is a sad statement regarding that aspect of statewide affairs in Wisconsin.

BTW, welcome abroad, we love the insight of the professionally trained.

Mike

Why doesn't Appleton just annex it?

Why would they want to?

[peterj920]

Oakwood Mall's sister Fox River Mall here in the Appleton area is also in a serious, inexorable  long-term decline (as I often say, "malls are sooooo last century!"), but in its case, the unincorporated township that it is in has shown no interest in doing anything about it.  The truly poor streets around it are so bad that they embarrass me as a City of Appleton resident.  IMHO, it is a sad statement regarding that aspect of statewide affairs in Wisconsin.

BTW, welcome abroad, we love the insight of the professionally trained.

Mike

Why doesn't Appleton just annex it?

Why would they want to?

There's probably a long standing border agreement which the two municipalities agreed to years ago. Northeast Wisconsin has the least amount of cooperation between municipalities. Harrison upset surrounding cities by becoming a village and later annexing areas that were not eligible to become a part of the village. Even Greenleaf joined in and became a village. Because of Harrison it can't annex any part of the Town of Wrightstown for 5 years. The initial purpose of making Greenleaf a village is to stop annexation from the Village of Wrightstown.

[SEWIGuy]

Good point. But there is no motivation for Appleton to annex a crumbling mall with a bunch of streets that need work as well. Why assume that liability when it is doubtful the property taxes would cover it? That's why annexations are usually in newer areas. Make the developer pay a portion of the infrastructure and it's all revenue positive.

[gbgoose]

I'd have to think there have been adjustments since 1992, but this is what I found.  I do agree that I don't think Appleton wants anything to do with the maintenance along the Mall area.   The mall itself has been fading, but there has been businesses added surrounding the mall area, and even heading west near McCarthy Rd.

This article should shed a little light on situation.
https://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/local/2021/10/29/appleton-grand-chute-boundary-pact-allows-town-islands-uneven-borders/8573127002/

I have complained about the lack of lighting on Grand Chute streets, and poor street maintenance.  It is so obvious along the borders on College Ave (WI-125), Wisconsin Ave (WI-96), Northland Ave (Cty-OO / WI-15).   Capitol Drive, Spencer St are others that stand out along the borders.

[mgk920]

I'd have to think there have been adjustments since 1992, but this is what I found.  I do agree that I don't think Appleton wants anything to do with the maintenance along the Mall area.   The mall itself has been fading, but there has been businesses added surrounding the mall area, and even heading west near McCarthy Rd.

This article should shed a little light on situation.
https://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/local/2021/10/29/appleton-grand-chute-boundary-pact-allows-town-islands-uneven-borders/8573127002/

I have complained about the lack of lighting on Grand Chute streets, and poor street maintenance.  It is so obvious along the borders on College Ave (WI-125), Wisconsin Ave (WI-96), Northland Ave (Cty-OO / WI-15).   Capitol Drive, Spencer St are others that stand out along the borders.

I'm thinking that ultimately, after we are all long gone and forgotten, he legislature of Wisconsin (and many other states) will essentially be forced to address the issue of mainly late 20th century suburban munis becoming insolvent and requiring state and even federal bailouts to maintain any semblance of services, likely by force-amalgamating these metros into single munis.  These were areas that incorporated for no other reason than to prevent themselves from being annexed by the then more expensive existing 'legacy' munis and asserting their 'independence'. Yes, the 'Suburban Growth Ponzi Scheme' at work.

Karma's a b****.

Mike

[mgk920]

The City of Appleton and Grand Chute Township have a non-expiring boundary agreement in place that sets out definite 'growth' areas for the two, also a 'joint first response' pact between their fire departments.  It is looking more and more to me like the City is the big winner in it.

Mike

[Roadguy]

Two new potential majors projects recommended in Dec 2023 to begin environmental study:

• US 18/151: From the end of the Verona Road major project recently completed with 6 lane expansion around Verona and freeway conversion to Dodgeville. That will put even more pressure to complete the free flow interchange at Verona / beltline in the future but imo would be surprised if something happened in the future here (this project would end south of County Road PD: McKee Rd)
• US 151: Columbus to Waupun freeway conversion in Dodge County

If anyone has access to the full 30 projects originally vetted down to 8 and then 2 as referenced in the TPC packet: https://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/about-wisdot/who-we-are/comm-couns/tpc/dec2023-binder.pdf let us all know what these projects are.

[SEWIGuy]

I don't think freeway conversion WEST of Verona will have much to do with the free-flow interchange in Madison. Most of that traffic is local (including Verona). The pressure will almost entirely come from continued growth in this local traffic.

[peterj920]

Two new potential majors projects recommended in Dec 2023 to begin environmental study:

• US 18/151: From the end of the Verona Road major project recently completed with 6 lane expansion around Verona and freeway conversion to Dodgeville. That will put even more pressure to complete the free flow interchange at Verona / beltline in the future but imo would be surprised if something happened in the future here (this project would end south of County Road PD: McKee Rd)
• US 151: Columbus to Waupun freeway conversion in Dodge County

If anyone has access to the full 30 projects originally vetted down to 8 and then 2 as referenced in the TPC packet: https://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/about-wisdot/who-we-are/comm-couns/tpc/dec2023-binder.pdf let us all know what these projects are.

The free flow ramps from The Beltline to Verona Rd is needed more than anything on US 151. During the day the VMS signs now say slow traffic ahead approaching that exit since exiting traffic backs up onto the mainline. WISDOT should at least change the signal phases and give the priority green light to traffic from The Beltline. Midvale Blvd gets priority green and shouldn't since it doesn't have nearly the amount of traffic that exiting traffic does.

[mgk920]

Two new potential majors projects recommended in Dec 2023 to begin environmental study:

• US 18/151: From the end of the Verona Road major project recently completed with 6 lane expansion around Verona and freeway conversion to Dodgeville. That will put even more pressure to complete the free flow interchange at Verona / beltline in the future but imo would be surprised if something happened in the future here (this project would end south of County Road PD: McKee Rd)
• US 151: Columbus to Waupun freeway conversion in Dodge County

The second listed project could also put pressure on the studiers to go with an option that includes free-flowing ramps to/from US 151 to the northeast at the East Towne interchange in the I-39/90/94 upgrade study.

Mike

[The Ghostbuster]

I hadn't heard about the US 18/151 Verona Bypass being expanded to six lanes. Good to know!

[peterj920]

I hadn't heard about the US 18/151 Verona Bypass being expanded to six lanes. Good to know!

There's some auxiliary lanes being added. They may be referring to this project:
https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/sw/us18151-danecounty/default.aspx

[mgk920]

I hadn't heard about the US 18/151 Verona Bypass being expanded to six lanes. Good to know!

There's some auxiliary lanes being added. They may be referring to this project:
https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/sw/us18151-danecounty/default.aspx

The list referred to in Roadguy's post above is potential projects that were OKed for further study.

Mike

[I-39]

Would these 151 freeway conversions be large scale conversions all at once (a la US 41 in the 1990s) or a piecemeal approach?

[mgk920]

Would these 151 freeway conversions be large scale conversions all at once (a la US 41 in the 1990s) or a piecemeal approach?

US 41's upgrade progress was VERY piecemeal until that final push in the late 1990/early 2000s, going back to before WWII.

Mike