Wisconsin notes

[peterj920]

Bus 23 isn't signed in Green Lake anymore and they're removed from Wis 23.

Wausau has the only complete Business route that is a state highway. Bus 51 is still a state highway through Plover and Whiting but not in Stevens Point.

Most of Bus 42 in Manitowoc is now Wis 42.

[74/171FAN]

Bus 23 isn't signed in Green Lake anymore and they're removed from Wis 23.

So this shield is gone?

[peterj920]

Bus 23 isn't signed in Green Lake anymore and they're removed from Wis 23.

So this shield is gone?

Never mind those are new. Look at streetview from the last time in 2018 and they were removed. I wonder if new signs went up in Green Lake itself. I assumed it went away because there was only one sign standing at one of the turns.

I just checked streetview in Green Lake itself and there's new Business 23 signs. I think WISDOT removed the signs and should have because there was no way to follow Bus 23 in Green Lake. All but one sign was removed at the turns. Green Lake must have put new signs up and petitioned WISDOT to put Bus 23 signs back up on Wis 23.

WISDOT will remove business signs if they're in bad shape. In Tomahawk the Bus 51 signs were in awful shape before it was removed.

[The Ghostbuster]

US 14 has had a Business 14 along its old alignment through Janesville since the US 14 bypass was completed in 1952. The only remaining sign along the Business 14 route is this End Business 14 sign at the east end of the route: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6708471,-88.9579672,3a,75y,88.69h,83.8t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQCw_7lmyPirNJSrM_NDrJg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu. Thus, technically Business 14 still exists, but is otherwise unposted.

[peterj920]

US 14 has had a Business 14 along its old alignment through Janesville since the US 14 bypass was completed in 1952. The only remaining sign along the Business 14 route is this End Business 14 sign at the east end of the route: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6708471,-88.9579672,3a,75y,88.69h,83.8t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQCw_7lmyPirNJSrM_NDrJg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu. Thus, technically Business 14 still exists, but is otherwise unposted.

I think WISDOT just replaced the sign mindlessly without realizing that Bus 14 no longer exists. There's this Bus 51 sign at the end of Wis 107 but Bus 51 is gone.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/82h98pbyKeHkAujq6?g_st=ic

I wonder why Wis 107 doesn't just end at Wis 86 in Tomahawk or why it's even a state highway north of Merrill?

[SEWIGuy]

US 14 has had a Business 14 along its old alignment through Janesville since the US 14 bypass was completed in 1952. The only remaining sign along the Business 14 route is this End Business 14 sign at the east end of the route: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6708471,-88.9579672,3a,75y,88.69h,83.8t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQCw_7lmyPirNJSrM_NDrJg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu. Thus, technically Business 14 still exists, but is otherwise unposted.

Up until about 15 or so years ago, the business route still had the old "CITY" US-14 signs in yellow.  Which should probably tell you how important these routes actually are - which is "not very."

[peterj920]

It depends on the municipality since they determine if they want the business route or not. WISDOT will initially sign the route in the beginning but the local jurisdiction has to maintain the signing on local roads or WISDOT will revoke the signs from its highways if they're not up to standard. I'm glad WISDOT removed the Bus 23 signs on Wis 23 and brought it back when the local signs were put back up. When I was there last the route couldn't be followed with all the missing signs at the turns. Now it's back up to standard.

Tomahawk let the signs rot to where the signs were worn out and didn't care to replace them which is why it was removed without objection.

In the case of Columbus, Bus 151 follows Wis 73 but the City of Columbus opted for that route to be signed.

Otherwise, many of them have been removed in the last 20 years in Appleton, Green Bay, Oshkosh, and Rhinelander to name a few.

[triplemultiplex]

I wonder why Wis 107 doesn't just end at Wis 86 in Tomahawk or why it's even a state highway north of Merrill?

Probably because since WisDOT has defaulted into applying their mileage cap as a by-county thing, there's zero incentive to decom any state route if they're not adding mileage somewhere else in the county.

It's a dumb system that isn't written down, as far as I'm aware, but they just seemed to start doing it this century as a way to placate some kind of local whining?  I'm not for sure sure why.  Used to be they'd decomission routes elsewhere in the district, but I have to assume they kept getting, "Why are you taking mileage from us and giving it to them?. So now we have defaulted into this system where the mileage of state highways is frozen in each county, seemingly forever?

That's definitely not the intent of the mileage cap.  It's a regressive implementation that favors rural counties with state highways to no where that should definitely be county roads at the expense of places where people actually live and drive.  Each of y'all reading this could rattle off 10 state highways in Wisconsin right now that should be turned back.  But the majority of them never will now that we've defaulted into this regressive approach to mileage apportionment.

[The Ghostbuster]

STH 107 is hardly the only state highway that terminates at a county highway at one end. Others include: STH 24 (continues as CTH L west of the Milwaukee/Waukesha County border); STH 134 (continues as CTH O north of the Main St. intersection in London); STH 136 (continues as CTH DL east of the entrance to Devil's Lake State Park); STH 152 (continues east as CTH W and west as CTH G in Mt. Morris); STH 155 (continues as CTH N west of Sayner); STH 311 (terminates at CTH KR); and STH 794 (terminates at CTH ZZ).

[The Ghostbuster]

The next public involvement meetings for the Interstate 39/90/94 study are January 30th (Virtually), January 31st (Wisconsin Dells), and February 1st (Madison): https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/sw/399094/public.aspx.

[GeekJedi]

I wonder why Wis 107 doesn't just end at Wis 86 in Tomahawk or why it's even a state highway north of Merrill?

Probably because since WisDOT has defaulted into applying their mileage cap as a by-county thing, there's zero incentive to decom any state route if they're not adding mileage somewhere else in the county.

It's a dumb system that isn't written down, as far as I'm aware, but they just seemed to start doing it this century as a way to placate some kind of local whining?  I'm not for sure sure why.  Used to be they'd decomission routes elsewhere in the district, but I have to assume they kept getting, "Why are you taking mileage from us and giving it to them?. So now we have defaulted into this system where the mileage of state highways is frozen in each county, seemingly forever?

I think (smartly) that it's a way to keep legislators away from the cap. If they have a "bank" of extra miles, the state could take it away to prevent WisDOT from using them. So, might as well keep them "banked" there until they need the miles somewhere else.

[peterj920]

STH 107 is hardly the only state highway that terminates at a county highway at one end. Others include: STH 24 (continues as CTH L west of the Milwaukee/Waukesha County border); STH 134 (continues as CTH O north of the Main St. intersection in London); STH 136 (continues as CTH DL east of the entrance to Devil's Lake State Park); STH 152 (continues east as CTH W and west as CTH G in Mt. Morris); STH 155 (continues as CTH N west of Sayner); STH 311 (terminates at CTH KR); and STH 794 (terminates at CTH ZZ).

True but what purpose does Wis 107 serve? I remember growing up there was a Merrill sign to go straight then it said "Merrill VIA 107." US 51 is the route to go from Tomahawk to Merrill.

Wis 136 serves Devils Lake, the busiest state park and is useful. According to the Wis highways site, Wis 24 is only around because Milwaukee Co refused to take it. Wis 794 is very important. Wis 152 and Wis 155 oddly serve unincorporated communities. There's nothing wrong with ending at a county road if the state highway is useful. Wis 107 doesn't really have any usefulness as a state highway north of Merrill. According to the traffic counts one part of Wis 107 has 90 cars a day! Why is that worth a state highway designation?

[SEWIGuy]

It's not. But that's not the point of its designation as triple outlined.

[Molandfreak]

Tomahawk let the signs rot to where the signs were worn out and didn't care to replace them which is why it was removed without objection.

When was the Tomahawk loop removed? AASHTO records show it was approved in 1993, and there are no signs on GSV in 2008. That doesn't seem like enough time for the signs to start rotting...

[peterj920]

Tomahawk let the signs rot to where the signs were worn out and didn't care to replace them which is why it was removed without objection.

When was the Tomahawk loop removed? AASHTO records show it was approved in 1993, and there are no signs on GSV in 2008. That doesn't seem like enough time for the signs to start rotting...

In 1993 Bus 51 was designated around Lake Nokomis between US 8 and US 51 when the US 51 "Super 2" was extended north of US 8. The signs that were wearing out were from when the US 51 bypass of Tomahawk opened in 1983 from County S to US 8. The bypass ended at US 8 until the route was extended 10 years later. At that time Bus 51 was also extended north on County L.

[SSOWorld]

WIS 311 anyone?  https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6839198,-87.9535269,14.06z/data=!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu

[Big John]

WIS 311 anyone?  https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6839198,-87.9535269,14.06z/data=!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu

First put up in 2022.  First post on it: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=6819.msg2785671#msg2785671

[triplemultiplex]

When was the Tomahawk loop removed? AASHTO records show it was approved in 1993, and there are no signs on GSV in 2008. That doesn't seem like enough time for the signs to start rotting...

They took down Bus 51 in Tomahawk when they four laned US 51 up there circa 2001.
I believe that's also about when they retired Bus 51 in Merrill as well.  I recall that signage going away at about the same time.

[dvferyance]

I was in the Madison area the other weekend exploring recent construction projects. On thing I found interesting is wisdot did not replace the traffic light at WI-113 and Hwy M. That's very unusual for them to do a reconstruction project and leave up the old traffic light.

[The Ghostbuster]

This probably won't ever happen, but I think STH 113 should have its four-lane segment extended northward to the STH 19/STH 113/CTH I roundabout.

[triplemultiplex]

They just reconstructed that segment last summer and kept it two lanes.  I thought that was short sighted.  Waunakee aint' gonna stop growing.  WI 113 should be four lanes between there and Madison.  So should WI 19 east to the triplex.

[The Ghostbuster]

Maybe they should have also reserved some right-of-way to possibly construct a STH 19/STH 113 northern bypass around Waunakee. I've given up hope that the North Mendota Parkway will ever be constructed.

[peterj920]

This probably won't ever happen, but I think STH 113 should have its four-lane segment extended northward to the STH 19/STH 113/CTH I roundabout.

It's in the Connections 2030 plan to make Wis 113 four lanes. It's the most realistic of the plans north of the lake. Wis 19 definitely needs to be four lanes from Waunakee to Sun Prairie.

County M is being made four lanes to County K, that's some progress. A full scale parkway probably isn't needed. Expanding County K to four lanes and an interchange at US 12 would work well. So many people drive below 55 and there's nearly no areas to pass on K which really slows traffic .

[JMAN_WiS&S]

I was in the Madison area the other weekend exploring recent construction projects. On thing I found interesting is wisdot did not replace the traffic light at WI-113 and Hwy M. That's very unusual for them to do a reconstruction project and leave up the old traffic light.

I also find this interesting. I know in the NW region, we made it a priority to adopt signal-head-per-lane for any multilane roadway with approach speeds greater than 45, and it seems like wherever practically possible, as many intersections with permissive/protective green ball signals have been swapped to 4 section FYAs. It seems that other regions have been taking a much slower approach, adopting both. New construction standard calls for SHPL, FYA and Monotubes for approaches with more than 1 thru lane. If 113/M were in NWR, we'd have also upgraded the protected only dual lefts to 4 section FYAs to run protected/permissive during off peak hours and overnight. That is some insane storage for the left turn, though most of that may just be for the railroad crossing.

[SSOWorld]

I was in the Madison area the other weekend exploring recent construction projects. On thing I found interesting is wisdot did not replace the traffic light at WI-113 and Hwy M. That's very unusual for them to do a reconstruction project and leave up the old traffic light.

I also find this interesting. I know in the NW region, we made it a priority to adopt signal-head-per-lane for any multilane roadway with approach speeds greater than 45, and it seems like wherever practically possible, as many intersections with permissive/protective green ball signals have been swapped to 4 section FYAs. It seems that other regions have been taking a much slower approach, adopting both. New construction standard calls for SHPL, FYA and Monotubes for approaches with more than 1 thru lane. If 113/M were in NWR, we'd have also upgraded the protected only dual lefts to 4 section FYAs to run protected/permissive during off peak hours and overnight. That is some insane storage for the left turn, though most of that may just be for the railroad crossing.

At least you're not in Dubuque, IA - which replaced FYAs with protected lefts on the NW arterial after taking it over from the state ....😡