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Regional Boards => Central States => Topic started by: route56 on May 18, 2017, 04:16:28 PM

Title: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: route56 on May 18, 2017, 04:16:28 PM
I still haven't tested my K-TAG in Oklahoma. Now, I may need to try the Sam Rayburn Tollway.

Quote from: Kansas Turnpike Authority
WICHITA, Kan.—Seamless regional travel has been expanded. The Kansas Turnpike Authority’s K-TAG now works on all Texas toll roads. KTA also accepts all Texas toll transponders in its electronic lanes. Customers who use multiple transponders to travel in Kansas, Oklahoma and Texas are asked to remove all but one transponder to prevent double billing issues.

“We’re excited to make regional travel easier for our customers as the summer travel season begins,” said KTA CEO Steve Hewitt. “This partnership will help facilitate future compatibility efforts with other states’ toll systems.”

This expanded interoperability is due to the creation of the Central States Hub between Kansas, Oklahoma and Texas. The “hub”, which took more than 18 months to implement, facilitates transaction communication between the different tolling authorities from the three
states.
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: Bobby5280 on May 18, 2017, 04:41:22 PM
I wonder if this affects Oklahoma's PikePass system. Previously the OTA PikePass has been inter-operable on Kansas and Dallas-Fort Worth area toll roads, but not inter-operable on Houston area toll roads or other toll roads using the TX Tag system (like in Austin).
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: RoadWarrior56 on May 18, 2017, 07:54:54 PM
The lack of compatibility between the various toll systems is a joke.  There might be more political acceptance of some of the various tolling proposals if it were more convenient and transparent for motorists to pay the tolls, notwithstanding what state you are from.

I have a PeachPass transponder, but I can't use it on EZ-Pass.  I visit the Louisville area  4 times a year and cross the new toll bridges frequently and I can't use PeachPass there either.  PeachPass is supposed to work with SunPass, but it didn't work at approximately half of the toll locations when I was in Florida.

Sorry for the out of topic rant, but I had to vent when I saw the subject of this thread.
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: J N Winkler on May 18, 2017, 09:24:36 PM
I wonder if this affects Oklahoma's PikePass system. Previously the OTA PikePass has been inter-operable on Kansas and Dallas-Fort Worth area toll roads, but not inter-operable on Houston area toll roads or other toll roads using the TX Tag system (like in Austin).

I suspect it does expand interoperability for PikePass customers because, AIUI, the hub shares customer files out to all participating agencies.  Publicity is probably on its way to you; I first heard of this development (as, I suspect, did Richie) through the KTA's "Turnpike Times" email newsletter.

(As it happens, the other day I went for a walk in the neighborhood and passed a car with Oklahoma plates that had both a K-Tag and a PikePass.  This is how you make toll agencies smile.)
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: Baloo Uriza on May 19, 2017, 05:44:46 AM
I wonder if this affects Oklahoma's PikePass system. Previously the OTA PikePass has been inter-operable on Kansas and Dallas-Fort Worth area toll roads, but not inter-operable on Houston area toll roads or other toll roads using the TX Tag system (like in Austin).

I suspect it does expand interoperability for PikePass customers because, AIUI, the hub shares customer files out to all participating agencies.  Publicity is probably on its way to you; I first heard of this development (as, I suspect, did Richie) through the KTA's "Turnpike Times" email newsletter.

(As it happens, the other day I went for a walk in the neighborhood and passed a car with Oklahoma plates that had both a K-Tag and a PikePass.  This is how you make toll agencies smile.)

We've had PIKEPASS interoperability on KTA and NTTA roads for about a year now.  But, I don't have a reason to go that deep into Kansas, and Dallas is a hot mess of public and private toll roads and not obvious who operates what, plus all the toll roads in the DFW area have state highways immediately adjacent so I don't bother with 'em at all when I'm there.
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: J N Winkler on May 19, 2017, 11:28:36 AM
We've had PIKEPASS interoperability on KTA and NTTA roads for about a year now.  But, I don't have a reason to go that deep into Kansas, and Dallas is a hot mess of public and private toll roads and not obvious who operates what, plus all the toll roads in the DFW area have state highways immediately adjacent so I don't bother with 'em at all when I'm there.

I have a K-Tag and this development removes the need for me to avoid electronically tolled toll roads altogether in Texas, though I am not sure a K-Tag will help me if I go HOV in Texas and want to use an express lane where the toll is variable according to occupancy.  PikePass has of course already been interoperable with NTTA infrastructure (TollTag) for years, but I am pretty sure PikePass holders have gained access to both HCTRA (EZ Tag) and TTD (TxTag) toll roads, but with the same caveat about the use of express lanes with variable tolling according to vehicle occupancy.  What is not clear to me at this point is whether a different type of transponder (maybe active type with driver dial-in of occupancy level) is required to use these express lanes at all, or if out-of-town drivers can use their passive-type transponders and simply overpay the toll if they happen to be HOV.

I also disbelieve KTA's claim about all toll roads in Texas.  There are some border bridges with electronic tolling that have long not been interoperable even with toll roads deeper into Texas and I am not sure the deployment of the new hub has changed this.

Texas also has some small-beer toll facilities where transponders, of whatever type, are no good because electronic tolling is not available at all.  One example of this is the toll bridge maintained by Brazoria County that carries the county road continuation of FM 3005 over San Luis Pass southwest of Galveston.  I presume there is a mechanism for these small operators to buy into TxTag, which seems to be at least the de facto statewide transponder network, but that many won't unless they are compelled to do so by state law.
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: Bobby5280 on May 19, 2017, 01:20:12 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler
I suspect it does expand interoperability for PikePass customers because, AIUI, the hub shares customer files out to all participating agencies.  Publicity is probably on its way to you; I first heard of this development (as, I suspect, did Richie) through the KTA's "Turnpike Times" email newsletter.

I've checked with OTA's PikePass web site. They have little if anything in terms of recent press releases. About the only thing noteworthy is the notice to PikePass customers that they must maintain a positive balance in their account when using KTA and NTTA toll roads. I assume this is for people who manually replentish the money in their accounts. Normally if my account drops below $10 it will automatically bill my credit card $40. Will it not do that if I'm driving on KTA or NTTA toll roads?

Quote from: Baloo Uriza
We've had PIKEPASS interoperability on KTA and NTTA roads for about a year now.  But, I don't have a reason to go that deep into Kansas, and Dallas is a hot mess of public and private toll roads and not obvious who operates what, plus all the toll roads in the DFW area have state highways immediately adjacent so I don't bother with 'em at all when I'm there.

AFAIK PikePass works on every Dallas-Fort Worth toll road except for the toll road through the DFW airport. I have taken full advantage of the "Lexus Lanes" along LBJ Freeway in North Dallas and the Dallas North Tollway. It's not fun to pay the tolls, but I consider it far worse to be snarled in a traffic jam on the "free" lanes of the LBJ Freeway. I'll burn more gasoline and time than what the "Lexus Lane" toll costs. The same goes for taking surface streets to avoid the DNT. Traffic can be infuriating in Addison and other North Dallas cities. The red lights are excruciatingly long, green lights far too short and attention spans of other drivers even shorter. Too many drivers at the front of the line in an intersection have their faces buried in their phones, updating Facebook or what ever rather than noticing the light turned green several seconds ago. The damned thing is turning yellow (and even red) before you can finally crawl through it. If you end up stuck at the red, thanks to some phone-using jerk you're going to be sitting there a long damned time.

I'll use the hell out of those toll lanes in DFW. The money spent is a good investment in me maintaining my sanity behind the wheel!
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: J N Winkler on May 19, 2017, 02:15:10 PM
About the only thing noteworthy is the notice to PikePass customers that they must maintain a positive balance in their account when using KTA and NTTA toll roads. I assume this is for people who manually replentish the money in their accounts. Normally if my account drops below $10 it will automatically bill my credit card $40. Will it not do that if I'm driving on KTA or NTTA toll roads?

I don't understand what is going on there.  Another item in the same KTA "Turnpike Times" newsletter that deals with Texas interoperability deals with a change to the billing cycle.  KTA now takes payment on the 15th of the month, which means that regular Turnpike users will get statements at the start of the month that indicate outstanding amounts owed for which payment will be taken automatically on the 15th if they have a credit card on file.  I think it is possible not to have a credit card on file, and it is certainly possible to make a payment manually to bring an account into credit, but personally I just keep a credit card on file and don't worry about tolls being paid unless I am getting violation notices or being billed for toll gate transits that don't correspond to my travel.

It may be that OTA, like E-ZPass agencies such as ISTHA but unlike KTA, has a prepayment requirement, which can potentially cause trouble even for credit-card-linked accounts if the replenishment threshold is too low and there are limits on when or how often the credit card can be billed.

KTA is also pushing K-Tag customers to register bank accounts (not just credit cards) so that expiration of a credit card doesn't block toll payment.
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: dfwmapper on May 19, 2017, 06:33:22 PM
I have a K-Tag and this development removes the need for me to avoid electronically tolled toll roads altogether in Texas, though I am not sure a K-Tag will help me if I go HOV in Texas and want to use an express lane where the toll is variable according to occupancy.  PikePass has of course already been interoperable with NTTA infrastructure (TollTag) for years, but I am pretty sure PikePass holders have gained access to both HCTRA (EZ Tag) and TTD (TxTag) toll roads, but with the same caveat about the use of express lanes with variable tolling according to vehicle occupancy.  What is not clear to me at this point is whether a different type of transponder (maybe active type with driver dial-in of occupancy level) is required to use these express lanes at all, or if out-of-town drivers can use their passive-type transponders and simply overpay the toll if they happen to be HOV.
The TEXpress lanes in North Texas have a website an Android/iOS app that you have to use 15 minutes before you take the lanes to get the peak-time HOV discount. It works with all 3 Texas transponders, but doesn't mention discounts for out-of-state tags. The out-of-state tags should work at full price at all times. Houston's METRO HOT lanes have separate lanes for HOV and SOV at the tolling points and would would without a transponder if you're an HOV, or I think with any transponder for tolled SOV during hours when that is available.
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: route56 on May 19, 2017, 09:26:44 PM
Another item in the same KTA "Turnpike Times" newsletter that deals with Texas interoperability deals with a change to the billing cycle.  KTA now takes payment on the 15th of the month, which means that regular Turnpike users will get statements at the start of the month that indicate outstanding amounts owed for which payment will be taken automatically on the 15th if they have a credit card on file.  I think it is possible not to have a credit card on file, and it is certainly possible to make a payment manually to bring an account into credit

I think the KTA does require a credit card or bank account on file for K-TAG accounts.
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: wxfree on May 19, 2017, 11:45:32 PM
We've had PIKEPASS interoperability on KTA and NTTA roads for about a year now.  But, I don't have a reason to go that deep into Kansas, and Dallas is a hot mess of public and private toll roads and not obvious who operates what, plus all the toll roads in the DFW area have state highways immediately adjacent so I don't bother with 'em at all when I'm there.

All fully tolled roads in the DFW area are public NTTA roads.  All managed lanes currently open are run by private companies.  If I recall correctly, the I-30 managed lanes will be run by TxDOT when they open.  This doesn't make any difference regarding payment.  All of the tolled facilities accept all Texas tags, Pikepass, and now K-TAG, and all of them have a bill by mail option and are open to everyone, regardless of whether you have a tag account.  International Parkway in DFW airport is different.  It isn't really a toll road, but you pay a parking fee based on how long the vehicle is on airport grounds.  It can be used as a toll road, but the cost structure discourages through use by charging a dollar more if you get from one end to the other quickly.
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: Baloo Uriza on May 20, 2017, 02:00:43 AM
Quote from: J N Winkler
I suspect it does expand interoperability for PikePass customers because, AIUI, the hub shares customer files out to all participating agencies.  Publicity is probably on its way to you; I first heard of this development (as, I suspect, did Richie) through the KTA's "Turnpike Times" email newsletter.

I've checked with OTA's PikePass web site. They have little if anything in terms of recent press releases. About the only thing noteworthy is the notice to PikePass customers that they must maintain a positive balance in their account when using KTA and NTTA toll roads. I assume this is for people who manually replentish the money in their accounts. Normally if my account drops below $10 it will automatically bill my credit card $40. Will it not do that if I'm driving on KTA or NTTA toll roads?

It will if you're set up to automatically replenish.  However, OTA had been extending courtesy credit on the assumption that you're good for it.  Problem is the out of state toll roads have relatively unpredictable toll schedules (particularly in DFW), so folks would travel NTTA roads on PIKEPASS with a negative balance, get a crazystupid bill from NTTA's high tolls, then leave the OTA holding their dong in one hand and an empty bag in the other.  So now OTA only allows you to go into the red on your PIKEPASS balance for OTA tolls.

I keep my account balance in the black, but I don't bother with automatic re-upping mostly because I consider OTA borderline incompetent to begin with and would rather just give them cash at the PIKEPASS Store to get account credit.  Nor do I use their roads very often since the whole scheme essentially amounts to a self-service taxicab, BYOC.

Quote from: Baloo Uriza
We've had PIKEPASS interoperability on KTA and NTTA roads for about a year now.  But, I don't have a reason to go that deep into Kansas, and Dallas is a hot mess of public and private toll roads and not obvious who operates what, plus all the toll roads in the DFW area have state highways immediately adjacent so I don't bother with 'em at all when I'm there.

AFAIK PikePass works on every Dallas-Fort Worth toll road except for the toll road through the DFW airport. I have taken full advantage of the "Lexus Lanes" along LBJ Freeway in North Dallas and the Dallas North Tollway. It's not fun to pay the tolls, but I consider it far worse to be snarled in a traffic jam on the "free" lanes of the LBJ Freeway. I'll burn more gasoline and time than what the "Lexus Lane" toll costs. The same goes for taking surface streets to avoid the DNT. Traffic can be infuriating in Addison and other North Dallas cities. The red lights are excruciatingly long, green lights far too short and attention spans of other drivers even shorter. Too many drivers at the front of the line in an intersection have their faces buried in their phones, updating Facebook or what ever rather than noticing the light turned green several seconds ago. The damned thing is turning yellow (and even red) before you can finally crawl through it. If you end up stuck at the red, thanks to some phone-using jerk you're going to be sitting there a long damned time.

My trick with dealing with the LBJ Expressway is, if there's any sort of traffic, stay on the outermost roadways and deal with the traffic lights, but LBJ's kind of a last resort to start with.  In general, if it's not within a stone's throw of TX 121, Dallas Parkway, or US 75; or walking distance to Dallas Union Terminal, it might as well be on the ass end of West Pyongyang as far as I'm concerned or willing to deal with it at all.  If I'm at DFW Airport, it's literally only to change flights.

Fortunately, Texas Furry Fiesta outgrew it's hotel on Dallas Parkway after outgrowing it's original hotel in Farmer's Branch, so now it's going to be held at the Reunion Tower, which is, for all practical purposes, in Dallas Union Terminal.  So I'll just park in Norman or Ardmore and take the Heartland Flyer with friends literally directly into the convention.
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: J N Winkler on July 02, 2017, 06:01:24 PM
Yesterday I used the Kansas and Cimarron Turnpikes as part of a day trip to Pawnee, Oklahoma, for the Pawnee Nation homecoming.

At the Southern Terminal on the Kansas Turnpike, the signs that referred both to K-Tag and PikePass (against a green background, if memory serves) have been removed in favor of a new sign that has just the K-Tag logo against a pink (not purple) background, above a yellow bottom panel with "ONLY" and two closely spaced black arrows, notwithstanding there being still just one electronic toll lane in each direction.  I believe these signs are new since my last Turnpike trip on June 10.

In Oklahoma, the electronic toll signing seemed to be unchanged on the Cimarron Turnpike at the US 177 exit with the possible exception of the PikePass logo appearing against the same pink background used with the K-Tag logo in Kansas.  This is certainly new since 2013, and probably also since the spring of 2016, but I can't be sure the current sign wasn't there on my last trip on April 8.  (OTA has never, to my knowledge, used the K-Tag logo on its signs.)

I do not understand why both KTA and OTA are using pink instead of purple background for their toll lane signing.  The current edition of the MUTCD is very clear (§ 2F.03) that purple is to be used in connection with ETC accounts.  As regards KTA's new lane assignment signs at the Southern Terminal, the MUTCD also requires that the "ONLY" message for ETC-only toll lanes be used in black against white because it is a regulatory message, and of course the number of arrows should actually match the number of lanes present.

I have sent KTA an "email" (really a form submit) to point out these concerns, and also suggest that changes in toll plaza signing--which have become confusingly frequent in the last couple of years with PikePass interoperability, backup video tolling, and now interoperability with metropolitan Texas--merit press releases that include sign layouts and sign panel details.
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: route56 on July 04, 2017, 07:51:55 PM
At the Southern Terminal on the Kansas Turnpike, the signs that referred both to K-Tag and PikePass (against a green background, if memory serves) have been removed in favor of a new sign that has just the K-Tag logo against a pink (not purple) background,

Maybe they didn't put enough cyan ink in the mixer?
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: kphoger on March 31, 2019, 03:12:16 PM
I'll probably be going to Austin this summer, and my deep distaste for driving through Fort Worth is leading me to plan a route into town on US-183 from Lampasas.  I see on the Toll 183A (https://www.mobilityauthority.com/traveler-info/open-roads/183A-Toll) website that I can pay tolls on that highway with Pikepass.

Can someone please confirm that Pikepass is accepted on 183A?
Are there any highways in Austin that don't accept Pikepass?
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: Bobby5280 on April 01, 2019, 12:02:57 AM
According to the Pike Pass FAQ the OTA transponders now work on Central Texas Regional Mobility Authority roads in the Austin area. That includes TX-183A. The toll roads in Austin vary between under CTRMA or TxDOT (and its TxTag). It drives me nuts how many toll road agencies operate in Texas. OTA is slowly getting interoperability agreements made in Texas. Pike Pass works on Fort Bend County Toll Road Authority Roads in Houston, but still not the Harris County Toll Road Authority roads. Pike Pass is still not interoperable with TxTag.
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: kphoger on April 01, 2019, 01:45:17 PM
OTA transponders now work on Central Texas Regional Mobility Authority roads in the Austin area.

Are there toll roads in the Austin area that are under other authorities, on which Pikepass will not work?
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: US 81 on April 01, 2019, 02:24:01 PM
OTA transponders now work on Central Texas Regional Mobility Authority roads in the Austin area.

Are there toll roads in the Austin area that are under other authorities, on which Pikepass will not work?

Yes. CTRMA = US 183A & US 290 (both of which have crowded traffic-light-strewn non-tolled street alternatives). TXDoT = TX 45 & TX 130. (discontinuous access/frontage roads, ie, no obvious free parallel roads) Both authorities have other Austin-area toll road projects in varying states of construction.

A quick glance at the TXDoT tollroad website says Pikepass is not yet compatible.
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: J N Winkler on April 01, 2019, 05:16:25 PM
Are there toll roads in the Austin area that are under other authorities, on which Pikepass will not work?

Frankly, I'd just close the PikePass account and get a K-Tag, since the latter works with everything in Texas.  OTA is a signatory to the interoperability agreement but for some reason they are not implementing it.
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: bmorrill on April 02, 2019, 10:44:57 AM
Back about 10 years ago, I had both a TxTag account and a PikePass as I mainly used the Oklahoma turnpike system and the one in Austin. When NTTA and OTA became reciprocal, I cancelled both accounts and set up a TollTag account with NTTA and use it for all of the Texas turnpikes, the OTA pikes, and I think I can use it in Kansas too.
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: djlynch on April 03, 2019, 09:52:53 AM
Are there toll roads in the Austin area that are under other authorities, on which Pikepass will not work?

Yes. CTRMA = US 183A & US 290 (both of which have crowded traffic-light-strewn non-tolled street alternatives). TXDoT = TX 45 & TX 130. (discontinuous access/frontage roads, ie, no obvious free parallel roads) Both authorities have other Austin-area toll road projects in varying states of construction.

It's more arbitrary than that, even. A lot of the 45 N project was an expansion along an existing ROW (meaning that continuous frontage roads were built because TxDOT was required to keep that segment accessible for free), and the toll lanes on Mopac are CTRMA alongside TxDOT free lanes. The only advice I would give to anyone who needed to know is that CTRMA toll road shields have a yellow border and Clearview digits, but TxDOT uses a white border with FHWA.

Also, as far as I know, every toll project that's under construction or in the planning stages is CTRMA, even if it's along an existing TxDOT road. The new segment of 45 SW, 183 mainlanes from 290 to 71, 183 express lanes, and so on.
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: J N Winkler on April 03, 2019, 03:20:50 PM
The only advice I would give to anyone who needed to know is that CTRMA toll road shields have a yellow border and Clearview digits, but TxDOT uses a white border with FHWA.

The RMAs were created in the early 2000's when the Texas Legislature punted on raising fuel taxes and I believe at least three--CTRMA, HCRMA, and CCRMA--now either operate toll facilities or have them under construction.  They exist alongside county and regional toll authorities.

CTRMA, NTTA, CCRMA, HCRMA, and TxDOT Turnpike Division are using variants of the same shield design that looks like a double-hung window.  The top rectangle has the route number or acronymized facility designation, inside an elongated version of the appropriate shield if the facility counts as part of a US or Interstate route.  The bottom part has a rendering of the word "toll" and a logo that may be agency-specific.  For NTTA this is the TollTag logo; for CTRMA it is a road-into-star design; for CCRMA, HCRMA, and TxDOT Turnpike Division it is the Lone Star flag.

The latter version is in SHSD and I believe it is available for use by any agency in Texas that does not natively use TxTag, as TxDOT does on its Austin-area toll facilities.  One example is the Katy Freeway managed lanes, which were originally conceived as a self-contained HCTRA facility (the Katy Tollway) with its own pentagon shield like the other HCTRA toll roads, but which was changed during construction to use the Lone Star flag version of the double-hung toll shield.  Like other HCTRA facilities, however, the Katy Freeway managed lanes natively use EZ Tag, not TxTag.

Given that shields don't necessarily line up with transponder type, I think it is really quite irresponsible of OTA to stick to piecemeal interoperability.  This is why I recommend dumping the PikePass if the main motivation for having it is trips to Texas.

Edited to add:  If PikePass is retained, I'd suggest checking the toll signing chapter in the TxMUTCD to see what guarantees, if any, are offered that toll payment signing will be specified in advance of entrance to the facility and that this signing will specify the transponder platform that the facility natively uses.  I recall that such signing is shown in the layouts, but I have not checked that all layouts show it, or that the text requires that motorists always be given this information.  I still think it is better to get a transponder that offers 100% interoperability rather than to bet all on seeing all of the relevant signs (message loading and truck obscuration can be a problem) and being able to challenge a toll violation on the basis of inadequate signing.
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: kphoger on April 03, 2019, 04:12:45 PM
Well, it's very likely that 183A will be the only toll road I need to use while there, so at least that's good news.  The main event is near downtown, and we'd likely get a motel along I-35.
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: SoonerCowboy on April 10, 2019, 09:59:49 PM
I still haven't tested my K-TAG in Oklahoma. Now, I may need to try the Sam Rayburn Tollway.



I used my Pikepass on the Kansas turnpike to go the the Kansas Star (I am a casino junkie), it worked just fine. Me and my wife has a friend that lives in Allen, TX just off the Sam Rayburn Tollway, and it works just fine. On my bill it has a section for Oklahoma and the NTTA on my statement.
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: Phone_Harold on May 04, 2019, 03:36:24 PM
OTA announced expanded interoperability with all Texas toll roads on May 1st.
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: rte66man on May 04, 2019, 08:26:32 PM
OTA announced expanded interoperability with all Texas toll roads on May 1st.

Here's the link:
https://spark.adobe.com/page/UiJ4aU6naiUyn/
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: sprjus4 on May 05, 2019, 02:14:31 AM
I'm just gonna be the one to say it - there just needs to be one toll transponder for all toll roads in the United States. It would be way simpler, and allow someone per se on one side of the country to travel to the other and be able to use their transponder without having to deal with the toll by plate B.S. Now that cashless toll roads are becoming popular, I have to go out of my way to avoid toll roads in areas E-ZPass aren't accepted. It's annoying and an inconvenience.

So far, I think NC Quick Pass is the pass that can be used in the most states. All E-ZPass states (which includes NC), plus Georgia and Florida.
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: skluth on May 05, 2019, 02:31:41 PM
I'm just gonna be the one to say it - there just needs to be one toll transponder for all toll roads in the United States.

Agreed.
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: Phone_Harold on May 06, 2019, 12:55:31 PM
I also agree.

I would point out the system used by KS/OK/TX is much more reliable than EZ Pass and the system used by Orange County toll road authority.  When driving in Florida a couple of years ago, Orange County missed half of the reads.  I hand to call them and pay the missing tolls.  No problem on FL Turnpike nor Hillsboro County.

My Pikepass only had one misread in several years of use.  (I suspect it was an equipment problem on OTAs side.)  It works so good when I had two transponders with one in the glove box, and both got read.
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: Brandon on May 06, 2019, 02:00:02 PM
I also agree.

I would point out the system used by KS/OK/TX is much more reliable than EZ Pass and the system used by Orange County toll road authority.  When driving in Florida a couple of years ago, Orange County missed half of the reads.  I hand to call them and pay the missing tolls.  No problem on FL Turnpike nor Hillsboro County.

My Pikepass only had one misread in several years of use.  (I suspect it was an equipment problem on OTAs side.)  It works so good when I had two transponders with one in the glove box, and both got read.

Sounds like my I-Pass (EZ Pass) experience.  Never a misread since 2003.  If your EZ Pass is misread, you're mounting it wrong (as I've seen far too many do).
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: J N Winkler on May 06, 2019, 03:13:34 PM
The actual position is more nuanced.  The protocol used in Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas is TransCore 6B/6C, which--compared to the current E-ZPass IAG protocol--eliminates a point of failure (batteries expiring) by using passive RFID technology.  But the actual reliability varies considerably from agency to agency within this interoperability zone.  I have a K-Tag and have had 100% accuracy on OTA and NTTA infrastructure (often under extremely unfavorable conditions), but numerous blown reads on the Kansas Turnpike.  In contradistinction, the I-Pass I use to access E-ZPass facilities has had 100% billing accuracy on the Illinois Tollway, the New York Thruway, and the Ohio Turnpike despite one read glitch (yellow light shown instead of blue at an Illinois Tollway toll gate, subsequently registered as a correct transponder read and not as a video toll; the account was nowhere near replenishment threshold).

Many years ago, when E-ZPass and the concept of interoperability in general were both still fairly new, there were problems with the New York Thruway rejecting good reads from vehicles that traversed toll gates in excess of the posted limit, and the Thruway then pursuing the drivers for toll evasion.  I suspect this (minus, at this point, pursuit for toll evasion) is what the Kansas Turnpike is now doing.  The Thruway now accepts reads regardless of vehicle speeds, and I suspect this is true throughout E-ZPassland.

This suggests to me that E-ZPass appears to be more robust mainly because the E-ZPass agencies are further along a learning curve in terms of debugging back-office billing procedures and issues with the technology underlying the protocol.  It will take time for the Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas zone to progress along the same curve and I think agencies that serve the lowest volumes will take the longest to catch up.  The Kansas Turnpike serves far less traffic than the Oklahoma turnpike system and any of the Texas regional toll authorities, so it doesn't surprise me I am seeing all of my problems in Kansas even though the transponder I have is native.
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: kphoger on May 06, 2019, 04:00:00 PM

OTA announced expanded interoperability with all Texas toll roads on May 1st.

Here's the link:
https://spark.adobe.com/page/UiJ4aU6naiUyn/

The map on that page has red dots for the toll bridges at the Mexican border.  However, I suspect Pikepass will not work there.
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: route56 on May 07, 2019, 10:49:40 AM
I have a K-Tag and have had 100% accuracy on OTA and NTTA infrastructure (often under extremely unfavorable conditions), but numerous blown reads on the Kansas Turnpike.

I haven't had any issues with blown reads up here (though, I did go through the ORT lanes with a disabled K-TAG and racked up $80 in toll violations)
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: J N Winkler on May 07, 2019, 12:03:43 PM
I haven't had any issues with blown reads up here (though, I did go through the ORT lanes with a disabled K-TAG and racked up $80 in toll violations)

Are you using a credit-card-sized sticker K-Tag or the newer strip-style sticker K-Tag?
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: route56 on May 07, 2019, 01:47:55 PM
Are you using a credit-card-sized sticker K-Tag or the newer strip-style sticker K-Tag?

I have the larger square-shaped K-Tags for three of the four vehicles on my account. The fourth has a strip.

It was the vehicle with the new strip tag that I was driving when I received the toll violations, but like I said before, it wasn't a 'blown read.' That K-Tag had been disabled because the credit card on file had expired. At the time, my dad had a separate K-Tag account for this car - I was using it for a couple of days during some icy road conditions. After receiving the first two violations, we authorized the KTA to move the K-Tags and the remaining balance on his account to mine. I have had not indication of a "blown read" since then (I will point out that I do have the licence plates for all four vehicles on my account registered with the KTA.
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: J N Winkler on May 07, 2019, 02:56:30 PM
I have the larger square-shaped K-Tags for three of the four vehicles on my account. The fourth has a strip.

It was the vehicle with the new strip tag that I was driving when I received the toll violations, but like I said before, it wasn't a 'blown read.' That K-Tag had been disabled because the credit card on file had expired. At the time, my dad had a separate K-Tag account for this car - I was using it for a couple of days during some icy road conditions. After receiving the first two violations, we authorized the KTA to move the K-Tags and the remaining balance on his account to mine. I have had not indication of a "blown read" since then (I will point out that I do have the licence plates for all four vehicles on my account registered with the KTA).

Thanks for this explanation.

My situation is that I am the only family member with a KTA account but have active credit-card-sized transponders for all three of the family cars.  Only one of the three transponders is actually installed and in use, next to an I-Pass under the inside rearview mirror mount.

Before KTA implemented video enforcement and permanent gates-up at certain toll plazas, I routinely had blown reads where the gate would stay down.  This has happened with transponder held up to windshield and transponder actually stuck to the windshield, with and without the I-Pass.  Now that KTA has video enforcement and gates permanently up at certain toll plazas, I am now dealing with misattribution of entry and exit point (e.g., billing says I entered at K-254/K-196/El Dorado when GPS log for the same journey proves I entered at I-135/I-235/South Wichita).  All of this has been with an account that has remained continuously in good standing (no credit card expiration, etc.) and with the license plate registered soon after KTA implemented video enforcement.  (I believe they started sending out violation notices before they made self-registration possible on the website.  My license plate is registered because a blown read resulted in a violation notice and I took that to KTA HQ to express my displeasure about their failure to read a correctly installed K-Tag.  The consumer service representative I talked to asked me for the plate number and typed it in as part of that visit; I did not self-register.)

AFAICT, KTA is nowhere near close to getting out of their own way.  I am still getting "Clean up your account" emails because I have two activated transponders that are not installed in cars and do not have corresponding license plate registrations.  I am not going to ask for them to be deactivated because if I put one of them in one of the two cars and register the plate, I want it to be available for use right away.  And I am not going to register plates for the other two cars because if it is taken through a cash lane that has video enforcement, I don't want to be double-billed (I don't trust KTA not to perform plate lookup on a vehicle that pays cash).

I suspect most of my problems would go away if KTA accepted good reads from vehicles traversing toll gates at speeds in excess of the limit, but I am not sure about the best way to lobby for this to happen.  I can see KTA management taking the view that if you don't observe the speed limit going through the toll gate, you deserve all the billing aggravation you get.  I believe that separating billing from speed enforcement is an operationally more expedient and in general more grown-up approach, but it wouldn't surprise me if it took a public outcry for the New York Thruway to abandon its former practice of discarding good reads from speeding vehicles.
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: Duke87 on May 09, 2019, 01:30:32 AM
it wouldn't surprise me if it took a public outcry for the New York Thruway to abandon its former practice of discarding good reads from speeding vehicles.

That is exactly what it took. NYSTA was actively harassing customers who went through E-Zpass lanes "too fast", they agreed to stop doing this after the press made a stink about it. This was over 15 years ago at this point.

A key difference is that NYSTA openly admitted they were harassing people about speed - one of the things they were doing was sending people nastygrams in the mail saying "you were caught exceeding the speed limit through one of our toll plazas, keep doing this and your E-Zpass account may be suspended"

KTA hasn't done *that* and any accusations that they're deliberately letting reads blow for people who exceed the speed limit are hearsay.
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: Rothman on May 09, 2019, 08:32:15 AM
I believe NYSTA still issues speed violations related to going too fast through the E-ZPass lanes.  The threshold to trigger one may be higher than it once was, however.
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: jeffandnicole on May 09, 2019, 09:24:50 AM
it wouldn't surprise me if it took a public outcry for the New York Thruway to abandon its former practice of discarding good reads from speeding vehicles.

That is exactly what it took. NYSTA was actively harassing customers who went through E-Zpass lanes "too fast", they agreed to stop doing this after the press made a stink about it. This was over 15 years ago at this point.

A key difference is that NYSTA openly admitted they were harassing people about speed - one of the things they were doing was sending people nastygrams in the mail saying "you were caught exceeding the speed limit through one of our toll plazas, keep doing this and your E-Zpass account may be suspended"

KTA hasn't done *that* and any accusations that they're deliberately letting reads blow for people who exceed the speed limit are hearsay.

NJ was doing this too.

That said, it wasn't much of a nasty gram. NJ would only send it out if you were going 31+ in a 5 mph zone. In other words, you're caught going 26 over the limit, and you're given a simple letter. Not really that big of a deal. Way better than a 26 mph over the limit ticket!

The EZ Pass limit thru the traditional lanes are now 15 mph, and I don't think they've sent letters for years.
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: J N Winkler on May 09, 2019, 11:40:32 AM
KTA hasn't done *that* and any accusations that they're deliberately letting reads blow for people who exceed the speed limit are hearsay.

My thanks to you and to Jeffandnicole for sharing local perspectives on how this issue played out in New York and New Jersey.

At this stage, it is not even hearsay that KTA is performing backdoor speed enforcement in this way.  Other possible explanations I can't rule out include the use of substandard or miscalibrated reader equipment.  I do have GPS logs for all toll plaza transits with a K-Tag, so at some point I want to check what speed characteristics are associated with billing errors, failed gate raises, violation letters and other irregularities.
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: kphoger on May 28, 2021, 04:43:19 PM
Does anyone know how it works to tow a U-Haul trailer behind a vehicle with a toll sticker?

If I call the toll agency and change the number of axles associated with my tag, will I simply be charged the higher rate apropriately at each toll booth?

Or will U-Haul still get a bill for a toll violation on the trailer regardless, because that's where the license plate is registered?
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: bwana39 on May 28, 2021, 11:15:56 PM
We've had PIKEPASS interoperability on KTA and NTTA roads for about a year now.  But, I don't have a reason to go that deep into Kansas, and Dallas is a hot mess of public and private toll roads and not obvious who operates what, plus all the toll roads in the DFW area have state highways immediately adjacent so I don't bother with 'em at all when I'm there.

I have a K-Tag and this development removes the need for me to avoid electronically tolled toll roads altogether in Texas, though I am not sure a K-Tag will help me if I go HOV in Texas and want to use an express lane where the toll is variable according to occupancy.  PikePass has of course already been interoperable with NTTA infrastructure (TollTag) for years, but I am pretty sure PikePass holders have gained access to both HCTRA (EZ Tag) and TTD (TxTag) toll roads, but with the same caveat about the use of express lanes with variable tolling according to vehicle occupancy.  What is not clear to me at this point is whether a different type of transponder (maybe active type with driver dial-in of occupancy level) is required to use these express lanes at all, or if out-of-town drivers can use their passive-type transponders and simply overpay the toll if they happen to be HOV.

I also disbelieve KTA's claim about all toll roads in Texas.  There are some border bridges with electronic tolling that have long not been interoperable even with toll roads deeper into Texas and I am not sure the deployment of the new hub has changed this.

Texas also has some small-beer toll facilities where transponders, of whatever type, are no good because electronic tolling is not available at all.  One example of this is the toll bridge maintained by Brazoria County that carries the county road continuation of FM 3005 over San Luis Pass southwest of Galveston.  I presume there is a mechanism for these small operators to buy into TxTag, which seems to be at least the de facto statewide transponder network, but that many won't unless they are compelled to do so by state law.

Galveston County OWNS and OPERATES The Toll Bridge at San Luis Pass.

This bridge is 45 mph at the best of times. It is one $2.00 toll. On peak use days, they take it up by hand. AFAIK all the rest of the toll roads in Texas have complete reciprocal interoperability. AFAIK there are no PRIVATE toll roads in Texas. There are several regional toll agencies that are apart from TXDOT in addition to the toll lanes and roads operated by TXDOT itself.

As far as Texas, Oklahoma, and Kansas interoperability, it is the lack of a billing arrangement between the agencies.  I suspect the HCTRA issue has to do with the Kansas tag not being paid immediately. HCTRA uses NO pay by invoice options (including pay by mail.)  If you travel on an HCTRA road or bridge that does not have toll booths (and many of them do not, ) you have to have an acceptable tag or you have created a violation that is $35 plus the tolls. It used to be $35.00 per toll segment. All of the Texas Tags are pay from a previously deposited fund and generally an automatically authorized topping off.
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: Great Lakes Roads on May 30, 2021, 01:12:17 AM
Speaking of which, the KTA awarded its first contract to convert the toll collection to AET.

https://www.wibw.com/2021/05/29/kta-awards-first-cashless-toll-construction-contract/
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: Ned Weasel on May 31, 2021, 08:58:34 AM
Speaking of which, the KTA awarded its first contract to convert the toll collection to AET.

https://www.wibw.com/2021/05/29/kta-awards-first-cashless-toll-construction-contract/

I'm confused.  Is this a system-wide overhaul, or just a partial conversion?  Have they even decided how system-wide conversion is going to work?  Are they going to keep the ticket-based system or convert to an open/point system?  The "Cashless Tolling" part of the KTA's website only talks about Exit 53A, which we've already discussed at great length on this forum.  https://www.ksturnpike.com/cashless-tolling
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: J N Winkler on May 31, 2021, 12:35:42 PM
I'm confused.  Is this a system-wide overhaul, or just a partial conversion?  Have they even decided how system-wide conversion is going to work?  Are they going to keep the ticket-based system or convert to an open/point system?  The "Cashless Tolling" part of the KTA's website only talks about Exit 53A, which we've already discussed at great length on this forum.  https://www.ksturnpike.com/cashless-tolling

I don't think it is possible to tell from the materials that are publicly available at this point.  However, the plans for Contract 7788 call for tolling infrastructure (overhead signbridges, equipment cabinets beside the road, and what appear to be loop detectors in the pavement) to be built at multiple locations on the mainline.  This suggests to me that KTA is contemplating a conversion to barrier tolling.
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: vdeane on May 31, 2021, 09:04:35 PM
The article made it sound like it would be the section south of Wichita, though I'm not sure how one would do a partial conversion of a ticket system without constructing temporary booths.
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: Scott5114 on May 31, 2021, 09:13:26 PM
I kind of hope they don't. Ticket systems are a lot easier to understand and less prone to abuse than barrier systems and whatever you'd call the abomination of design that is the Oklahoma turnpike system.
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: sprjus4 on May 31, 2021, 09:50:37 PM
I don’t see any issues with a barrier system if toll gantries are adequately spaced between each exit. That way motorists can get on and off the highway without having to worry about tolls, those would be automatically collected on the mainline.
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: J N Winkler on May 31, 2021, 09:59:49 PM
The article made it sound like it would be the section south of Wichita, though I'm not sure how one would do a partial conversion of a ticket system without constructing temporary booths.

Yes, the hardware is going in south of Wichita.  But this is billed as the first of several contracts, and I predict the others will cover segments further north.
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: Great Lakes Roads on May 31, 2021, 10:32:09 PM
The article made it sound like it would be the section south of Wichita, though I'm not sure how one would do a partial conversion of a ticket system without constructing temporary booths.

Yes, the hardware is going in south of Wichita.  But this is billed as the first of several contracts, and I predict the others will cover segments further north.

Found a link to the presentation on this project, and I'll run down the most important parts of the presentation:
-Adds 36 toll zones and reusing 6 toll zones for a total of 42 toll zones (21 each way)
-Convert the existing toll zones (Southern, East Topeka, and Eastern) with new tolling equipment and add 36 new mainline toll zones
-It will be a "closed" system with some zones operating in one direction only and other zones having adjacent toll zones to capture both directions
-Schedule on slide 20. Splits the contract into four different construction packages in three years (South of Wichita (2021), North of Wichita to Emporia (2022), East of Topeka to Kansas City (2022), and between Emporia and Topeka (2023))
-The ones east of Topeka on I-70 will have space for a future outside lane in each direction
-Scheduled to go live in January 2024 and will have a separate contract for demolition of all of the existing toll plazas on the system

Link: https://www.ksturnpike.com/assets/uploads/content-files/KTA_CashlessTollingPh2_Pre-Proposal_Mtg.pdf
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: CtrlAltDel on May 31, 2021, 10:32:38 PM
As I mentioned in another thread, I'll be traveling along the Kansas Turnpike in a few weeks. Does it still accept cash? Or should I prepare for other options?
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: ozarkman417 on May 31, 2021, 11:36:23 PM
At times between tomorrow and Thursday, I'll be travelling on the Will Rogers, Turner, and Cimarron Turnpikes.  So, I'll ask a similar question to the one above: Which payment methods are available on these turnpikes, especially after COVID? I do not have any type of toll pass/transponder.
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: Scott5114 on May 31, 2021, 11:59:51 PM
As far as I'm aware cash is still accepted throughout the Kansas and Oklahoma toll systems (except at Kansas Turnpike exit 53A).
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: Ned Weasel on June 01, 2021, 05:51:24 AM
Found a link to the presentation on this project, and I'll run down the most important parts of the presentation:
-Adds 36 toll zones and reusing 6 toll zones for a total of 42 toll zones (21 each way)
-Convert the existing toll zones (Southern, East Topeka, and Eastern) with new tolling equipment and add 36 new mainline toll zones
-It will be a "closed" system with some zones operating in one direction only and other zones having adjacent toll zones to capture both directions
-Schedule on slide 20. Splits the contract into four different construction packages in three years (South of Wichita (2021), North of Wichita to Emporia (2022), East of Topeka to Kansas City (2022), and between Emporia and Topeka (2023))
-The ones east of Topeka on I-70 will have space for a future outside lane in each direction
-Scheduled to go live in January 2024 and will have a separate contract for demolition of all of the existing toll plazas on the system

Link: https://www.ksturnpike.com/assets/uploads/content-files/KTA_CashlessTollingPh2_Pre-Proposal_Mtg.pdf

Thanks!  This is really interesting and informative!
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: CtrlAltDel on June 01, 2021, 03:36:28 PM
As far as I'm aware cash is still accepted throughout the Kansas and Oklahoma toll systems (except at Kansas Turnpike exit 53A).

Excellent. Thank you.
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: kphoger on June 02, 2021, 02:13:19 PM
Does anyone know how it works to tow a U-Haul trailer behind a vehicle with a toll sticker?

If I call the toll agency and change the number of axles associated with my tag, will I simply be charged the higher rate apropriately at each toll booth?

Or will U-Haul still get a bill for a toll violation on the trailer regardless, because that's where the license plate is registered?

The reason for my necro-post has, I think, gone unanswered.  Does nobody have any experience with this type of situation?

In a few weeks, I'll be helping my friend move storage units, and we'll be taking both KTA and OTA turnpikes as part of our trip.  Shunpiking is a possibility, but it would add fairly significant time to a 700-mile one-way journey.
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: Bobby5280 on June 02, 2021, 02:33:37 PM
According to the PikePass FAQ: What if I occasionally pull a trailer?

"You can still use a PIKEPASS Sticker. Contact the Customer Service Center at 1-800-745-3727 before and after your trip. If you did not make the class change on your account prior to traveling, you should stop at an attended toll booth on the turnpike(s). A toll collector can make the change for you for that (one way) trip. Another option is to pay the $25 fee for a Portable for the regular vehicle class, and we will not charge you the fee for the second one with the higher class for use when towing a trailer."
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: J N Winkler on June 02, 2021, 03:11:13 PM
In a few weeks, I'll be helping my friend move storage units, and we'll be taking both KTA and OTA turnpikes as part of our trip.  Shunpiking is a possibility, but it would add fairly significant time to a 700-mile one-way journey.

All of the options mentioned in the FAQ entry Bobby5280 cited sound complicated, with a high probability of snafus ensuing if toll processing passes through video pickup of the license plate number (as seems more likely when towing a trailer; in my experience, KTA easily gets tolls wrong even for four-wheel vehicles not towing trailers).  For a onetime trip, I'd shunpike, as that will likely take less time than straightening out a wrong toll, and of course the cost will be significantly less.
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: kphoger on June 02, 2021, 03:55:34 PM
Yeah, the FAQ page—in my opinion—seems to assume your trailer is also registered to you.
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: Bobby5280 on June 02, 2021, 06:56:06 PM
It would seem logical for OTA to have some kind of simple PikePass provision for motorists towing something like a U-Haul trailer. Given this is Oklahoma there is no guarantee.
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: sprjus4 on June 02, 2021, 09:24:45 PM
If all the toll roads involved accept cash, couldn’t you simply pay at toll plazas?
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: Scott5114 on June 03, 2021, 01:05:49 AM
If all the toll roads involved accept cash, couldn’t you simply pay at toll plazas?

It sounds like the vehicle already has a transponder sticker installed, which could cause problems, because 1) KS/OK style stickers are not reusable once removed (so you can't just pull it out and leave it at home, like you can an EZPass) and 2) some toll plazas in Kansas have combo KTAG/cash lanes, so you can't necessarily prevent a KTAG charge by simply paying cash, and 3) in Oklahoma, there are also Pikepass reader gantries located in places that are not associated with a cash toll, which could cause problems (for instance, on the Turner Turnpike, there are tag read points at the Oklahoma City and Tulsa termini—what happens if your tag is read there but not at the mainline plaza at Stroud is a mystery, but I doubt it's going to result in the proper toll charge..)
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: kphoger on June 03, 2021, 10:05:35 AM

If all the toll roads involved accept cash, couldn’t you simply pay at toll plazas?

It sounds like the vehicle already has a transponder sticker installed, which could cause problems, because 1) KS/OK style stickers are not reusable once removed (so you can't just pull it out and leave it at home, like you can an EZPass) and 2) some toll plazas in Kansas have combo KTAG/cash lanes, so you can't necessarily prevent a KTAG charge by simply paying cash, and 3) in Oklahoma, there are also Pikepass reader gantries located in places that are not associated with a cash toll, which could cause problems (for instance, on the Turner Turnpike, there are tag read points at the Oklahoma City and Tulsa termini—what happens if your tag is read there but not at the mainline plaza at Stroud is a mystery, but I doubt it's going to result in the proper toll charge..)

Exactly.

The driving vehicle has a KTAG sticker affixed to the windshield.  We're taking I-35 south to OKC, then I-44 southwest to Wichita Falls and beyond.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but our toll points would be these:

1.  Entering the KTA at I-135 — options are KTAG only lane or combo ticket/KTAG lanes.  The KTAG will read no matter what.

2.  Leaving the KTA at its southern terminal — options are KTAG only lane or combo cash/KTAG lanes.  The KTAG will read no matter what.

3.  Entering the HE Bailey Turnpike at Newcastle — options are PikePass only lane or cash lanes.  Possible to avoid the KTAG being read.

4.  HE Bailey Turnpike toll plaza south of Chickasha — recently built, and I don't recall the setup.  ???

5.  Leaving the HE Bailey Turnpike at Walters — options are PikePass only lane or cash lanes very nearby.  Possible to avoid the KTA being read, but risky?
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: Bobby5280 on June 03, 2021, 12:49:31 PM
Quote from: kphoger
HE Bailey Turnpike toll plaza south of Chickasha — recently built, and I don't recall the setup.  ???

The new I-44 toll plaza at mile marker 66 is basic looking but still nice. There are two cash lanes for each direction situated outboard from the thru lanes that run through the middle of the plaza. There is a spot update of overhead imagery showing the new plaza in Google Earth/Maps.

There are plans to re-do the Newcastle toll plaza into a similar configuration. The existing plaza, with single outboard PikePass lanes, was built around 25 years ago.

Quote from: kphoger
Leaving the HE Bailey Turnpike at Walters — options are PikePass only lane or cash lanes very nearby.  Possible to avoid the KTA being read, but risky?

Just make sure you go through the plaza when human beings are on duty. If you go through the cash lane the toll booth attendant can make any adjustments. I drive from Lawton to Temple from time to time to visit relatives and get off the turnpike at the Walters exit. I have to go through the cash lane in order to exit. There are PikePass readers in that lane. I tell the attendant that I'm exiting for Walters and they adjust the toll so I don't get charged as if I'm going all the way to the turnpike's end at the Randlett exit.
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: J N Winkler on June 03, 2021, 04:54:17 PM
As this is sounding like a Wichita-to-Wichita-Falls itinerary, I had a look at what Google Maps suggests in terms of briefest journey.  The toll route is 4 hours 21 minutes (299 miles) via I-35/I-44 while the non-toll route is 5 hours 16 minutes (313 miles) via I-35/US 62/US 81/SH 79/various connecting routes.  I'd say about 40 minutes of the added travel time comes from dealing with reduced rural speed limits, and the rest from chewing through built-up areas like Haysville, Wellington, Chickasha, and Comanche.  It's possible to do a lot worse in terms of rural congestion and stoplight infestation.
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: kphoger on June 03, 2021, 05:09:18 PM
As this is sounding like a Wichita-to-Wichita-Falls itinerary, I had a look at what Google Maps suggests in terms of briefest journey.  The toll route is 4 hours 21 minutes (299 miles) via I-35/I-44 while the non-toll route is 5 hours 16 minutes (313 miles) via I-35/US 62/US 81/SH 79/various connecting routes.  I'd say about 40 minutes of the added travel time comes from dealing with reduced rural speed limits, and the rest from chewing through built-up areas like Haysville, Wellington, Chickasha, and Comanche.  It's possible to do a lot worse in terms of rural congestion and stoplight infestation.

For shunpiking, I'd take US-81 and US-177 south to the Oklahoma state line.  Then I-35 south from Braman to Ardmore.  Then US-70 and OK/TX-79 west to Wichita Falls.  A lot less through-town driving that way, and a lot more four-lane highway.  Approximately an hour longer than the tolled route, though.
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: route56 on June 03, 2021, 10:54:05 PM
From a simple google search "Towing a trailer K-TAG", I found this (https://www.ksturnpike.com/news/posts/mailbag-october-2015)

Quote
HOW DOES THE K-TAG KNOW HOW MANY AXLES I HAVE WHEN I’M PULLING A TRAILER OR A BOAT?

As you drive through the toll lane, there is equipment that counts the axles of your vehicle. This equipment tells us how to bill your account for that trip.
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: plain on June 04, 2021, 12:35:00 AM
From a simple google search "Towing a trailer K-TAG", I found this (https://www.ksturnpike.com/news/posts/mailbag-october-2015)

Quote
HOW DOES THE K-TAG KNOW HOW MANY AXLES I HAVE WHEN I’M PULLING A TRAILER OR A BOAT?

As you drive through the toll lane, there is equipment that counts the axles of your vehicle. This equipment tells us how to bill your account for that trip.

Which makes sense... I mean, the sensors knows the difference between a full blown tractor trailer and a standard 2-axle vehicle right? So the sensors can tell whether or not someone is towing something.
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: deathtopumpkins on June 08, 2021, 09:08:05 AM
Quote from: kphoger
HE Bailey Turnpike toll plaza south of Chickasha — recently built, and I don't recall the setup.  ???

The new I-44 toll plaza at mile marker 66 is basic looking but still nice. There are two cash lanes for each direction situated outboard from the thru lanes that run through the middle of the plaza. There is a spot update of overhead imagery showing the new plaza in Google Earth/Maps.

Note that there do appear to be PikePass readers above the cash lanes here: https://goo.gl/maps/wwh1z9qwmQEGeFSy6 so I wouldn't assume you could pay cash at this plaza without the K-TAG being read.
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: Scott5114 on June 08, 2021, 12:39:01 PM
Quote from: kphoger
HE Bailey Turnpike toll plaza south of Chickasha — recently built, and I don't recall the setup.  ???

The new I-44 toll plaza at mile marker 66 is basic looking but still nice. There are two cash lanes for each direction situated outboard from the thru lanes that run through the middle of the plaza. There is a spot update of overhead imagery showing the new plaza in Google Earth/Maps.

Note that there do appear to be PikePass readers above the cash lanes here: https://goo.gl/maps/wwh1z9qwmQEGeFSy6 so I wouldn't assume you could pay cash at this plaza without the K-TAG being read.

Given that particular plaza is staffed with a human toll collector, one could possibly explain the situation to the toll collector and have them delete the K-TAG charge, since toll collectors at other plazas are known to be able to adjust tolls on the fly. However, this may not be an ability that's available at all plazas. The toll collector would hopefully at least be able to indicate who you would need to talk to in order to get the toll adjusted, however.
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: kphoger on June 08, 2021, 03:46:01 PM
Hmmm..  This might not end up happening.  At least yet.  My friend took a spill on his motorcycle, messed up his knee pretty badly.  Don't know yet what restrictions he may be under when move time happens.
Title: Re: Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability now here!
Post by: kphoger on July 13, 2021, 06:29:15 PM
As I mentioned in another thread, my friend and I did this moving trip on June 22-24.  He only gave a token effort at trying to update his K-Tag account to include a trailer.  Basically, he did two things:

  1.  Before leaving (the night before?), he went on the internet to look for a way to change it online.  He didn't see one.

  2.  When we passed through the southern terminus barrier plaza of the KTA, he told the attendant that the "THANK YOU" sign didn't flash at him upon entry.  He asked her if his tag read and if he was charged the correct amount.  The attendant merely answered that it had worked—didn't say anything about what rate was charged.

So I have no idea how it ended up working out.  It's not my K-Tag, it's not my bank account, it's not my fight to try and fight from a house in Mexico if anything ends up going wrong, so I guess I only care so much.



A week later, though, I took a family vacation to Galveston.  Our PikePass read correctly at every point:  KTA south of Wichita, Pres. George Bush Turnpike all the way from I-35E to I-20, Beltway 8 as a bypass around Houston from I-45 to I-45.  I verified it online just now.