As shown in my most recent video it seems that the general skill level of the driving public is actually declining rather than improving. The Covid-19 pandemic seems to have exacerbated this moreso. I have clips from before and during the pandemic as comparison. You'll see various areas of Chicagoland in this video as well. Thoughts as to any other reasons why this is? I mean, I'm not necessarily bothered by it as it will always provide me with some content to produce once my backlog runs out.
Quote from: Crash_It on November 02, 2020, 04:40:25 PM
As shown in my most recent video it seems that the general skill level of the driving public is actually declining rather than improving. The Covid-19 pandemic seems to have exacerbated this moreso. I have clips from before and during the pandemic as comparison. You'll see various areas of Chicagoland in this video as well. Thoughts as to any other reasons why this is? I mean, I'm not necessarily bothered by it as it will always provide me with some content to produce once my backlog runs out.
90% of the issues you present really aren't issues. Many of the issues you create yourself by speeding up to the other vehicle and tailgating.
Someone slowing down to make a right turn is bad driving? Seriously?
I'm not sure how a before and after video comparison is meaningful. You're driving around for hours and taking small 5 second clips of bad drivers. Nothing different than a news reporter talking to 20 people. 19 have 1 viewpoint. The 20th has a different viewpoint. News reporter airs report with that single person's viewpoint because that's the narrative of the story they want to broadcast.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 02, 2020, 05:03:02 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on November 02, 2020, 04:40:25 PM
As shown in my most recent video it seems that the general skill level of the driving public is actually declining rather than improving. The Covid-19 pandemic seems to have exacerbated this moreso. I have clips from before and during the pandemic as comparison. You'll see various areas of Chicagoland in this video as well. Thoughts as to any other reasons why this is? I mean, I'm not necessarily bothered by it as it will always provide me with some content to produce once my backlog runs out.
90% of the issues you present really aren't issues. Many of the issues you create yourself by speeding up to the other vehicle and tailgating.
Someone slowing down to make a right turn is bad driving? Seriously?
I'm not sure how a before and after video comparison is meaningful. You're driving around for hours and taking small 5 second clips of bad drivers. Nothing different than a news reporter talking to 20 people. 19 have 1 viewpoint. The 20th has a different viewpoint. News reporter airs report with that single person's viewpoint because that's the narrative of the story they want to broadcast.
I'm not speeding up to the other vehicles at all or tailgating. Making a right turn without signaling is bad driving as is not turning onto the correct side of the roadway. These are snapshots in time of a person's bad driving, it is possible that during their drive beforehand or afterwards, they weren't making any mistakes. Just that at that point in time, they did.
Quote from: Crash_It on November 02, 2020, 05:17:55 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 02, 2020, 05:03:02 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on November 02, 2020, 04:40:25 PM
As shown in my most recent video it seems that the general skill level of the driving public is actually declining rather than improving. The Covid-19 pandemic seems to have exacerbated this moreso. I have clips from before and during the pandemic as comparison. You'll see various areas of Chicagoland in this video as well. Thoughts as to any other reasons why this is? I mean, I'm not necessarily bothered by it as it will always provide me with some content to produce once my backlog runs out.
90% of the issues you present really aren't issues. Many of the issues you create yourself by speeding up to the other vehicle and tailgating.
Someone slowing down to make a right turn is bad driving? Seriously?
I'm not sure how a before and after video comparison is meaningful. You're driving around for hours and taking small 5 second clips of bad drivers. Nothing different than a news reporter talking to 20 people. 19 have 1 viewpoint. The 20th has a different viewpoint. News reporter airs report with that single person's viewpoint because that's the narrative of the story they want to broadcast.
I'm not speeding up to the other vehicles at all or tailgating. Making a right turn without signaling is bad driving as is not turning onto the correct side of the roadway. These are snapshots in time of a person's bad driving, it is possible that during their drive beforehand or afterwards, they weren't making any mistakes. Just that at that point in time, they did.
So when someone critiques your driving it's not okay? It's only okay when you critique others?
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 02, 2020, 05:21:15 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on November 02, 2020, 05:17:55 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 02, 2020, 05:03:02 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on November 02, 2020, 04:40:25 PM
As shown in my most recent video it seems that the general skill level of the driving public is actually declining rather than improving. The Covid-19 pandemic seems to have exacerbated this moreso. I have clips from before and during the pandemic as comparison. You'll see various areas of Chicagoland in this video as well. Thoughts as to any other reasons why this is? I mean, I'm not necessarily bothered by it as it will always provide me with some content to produce once my backlog runs out.
90% of the issues you present really aren't issues. Many of the issues you create yourself by speeding up to the other vehicle and tailgating.
Someone slowing down to make a right turn is bad driving? Seriously?
I'm not sure how a before and after video comparison is meaningful. You're driving around for hours and taking small 5 second clips of bad drivers. Nothing different than a news reporter talking to 20 people. 19 have 1 viewpoint. The 20th has a different viewpoint. News reporter airs report with that single person's viewpoint because that's the narrative of the story they want to broadcast.
I'm not speeding up to the other vehicles at all or tailgating. Making a right turn without signaling is bad driving as is not turning onto the correct side of the roadway. These are snapshots in time of a person's bad driving, it is possible that during their drive beforehand or afterwards, they weren't making any mistakes. Just that at that point in time, they did.
So when someone critiques your driving it’s not okay? It’s only okay when you critique others?
I'm not claiming that I'm a perfect driver, I even say that in the disclaimer. I'm just saying that when you do so, reference a law that I supposedly broke. Says that in the disclaimer too. It's perfectly okay to critique as long as it's done constructively. I may not be the best driver, but at this point in time..those drivers were worse. I have not ever done any of these maneuvers shown in this video.
Quote from: Crash_It on November 02, 2020, 05:32:41 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 02, 2020, 05:21:15 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on November 02, 2020, 05:17:55 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 02, 2020, 05:03:02 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on November 02, 2020, 04:40:25 PM
As shown in my most recent video it seems that the general skill level of the driving public is actually declining rather than improving. The Covid-19 pandemic seems to have exacerbated this moreso. I have clips from before and during the pandemic as comparison. You'll see various areas of Chicagoland in this video as well. Thoughts as to any other reasons why this is? I mean, I'm not necessarily bothered by it as it will always provide me with some content to produce once my backlog runs out.
90% of the issues you present really aren't issues. Many of the issues you create yourself by speeding up to the other vehicle and tailgating.
Someone slowing down to make a right turn is bad driving? Seriously?
I'm not sure how a before and after video comparison is meaningful. You're driving around for hours and taking small 5 second clips of bad drivers. Nothing different than a news reporter talking to 20 people. 19 have 1 viewpoint. The 20th has a different viewpoint. News reporter airs report with that single person's viewpoint because that's the narrative of the story they want to broadcast.
I'm not speeding up to the other vehicles at all or tailgating. Making a right turn without signaling is bad driving as is not turning onto the correct side of the roadway. These are snapshots in time of a person's bad driving, it is possible that during their drive beforehand or afterwards, they weren't making any mistakes. Just that at that point in time, they did.
So when someone critiques your driving it's not okay? It's only okay when you critique others?
I'm not claiming that I'm a perfect driver, I even say that in the disclaimer. I'm just saying that when you do so, reference a law that I supposedly broke. Says that in the disclaimer too. It's perfectly okay to critique as long as it's done constructively. I may not be the best driver, but at this point in time..those drivers were worse. I have not ever done any of these maneuvers shown in this video.
But do you critique constructively? Nothing you've posted on this forum seems to suggest to me (to which I'm stating my opinion from watching the materials presented thus far) that is actually the case. Your posting regarding driving behaviors always struck me as though you are someone who gets angry and frustrated easily at the actions of others. It certainly doesn't help that you cherry pick clips of your driving which still show you not to be all that beyond the people you are being critical of.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 02, 2020, 05:41:19 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on November 02, 2020, 05:32:41 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 02, 2020, 05:21:15 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on November 02, 2020, 05:17:55 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 02, 2020, 05:03:02 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on November 02, 2020, 04:40:25 PM
As shown in my most recent video it seems that the general skill level of the driving public is actually declining rather than improving. The Covid-19 pandemic seems to have exacerbated this moreso. I have clips from before and during the pandemic as comparison. You'll see various areas of Chicagoland in this video as well. Thoughts as to any other reasons why this is? I mean, I'm not necessarily bothered by it as it will always provide me with some content to produce once my backlog runs out.
90% of the issues you present really aren't issues. Many of the issues you create yourself by speeding up to the other vehicle and tailgating.
Someone slowing down to make a right turn is bad driving? Seriously?
I'm not sure how a before and after video comparison is meaningful. You're driving around for hours and taking small 5 second clips of bad drivers. Nothing different than a news reporter talking to 20 people. 19 have 1 viewpoint. The 20th has a different viewpoint. News reporter airs report with that single person's viewpoint because that's the narrative of the story they want to broadcast.
I'm not speeding up to the other vehicles at all or tailgating. Making a right turn without signaling is bad driving as is not turning onto the correct side of the roadway. These are snapshots in time of a person's bad driving, it is possible that during their drive beforehand or afterwards, they weren't making any mistakes. Just that at that point in time, they did.
So when someone critiques your driving it's not okay? It's only okay when you critique others?
I'm not claiming that I'm a perfect driver, I even say that in the disclaimer. I'm just saying that when you do so, reference a law that I supposedly broke. Says that in the disclaimer too. It's perfectly okay to critique as long as it's done constructively. I may not be the best driver, but at this point in time..those drivers were worse. I have not ever done any of these maneuvers shown in this video.
But do you critique constructively? Nothing you've posted on this forum seems to suggest to me (to which I'm stating my opinion from watching the materials presented thus far) that is actually the case. Your posting regarding driving behaviors always struck me as though you are someone who gets angry and frustrated easily at the actions of others. It certainly doesn't help that you cherry pick clips of your driving which still show you not to be all that beyond the people you are being critical of.
Where do you see me being angry or frustrated besides in the 2019 section at one clip? I politely call out the driving behaviors.
Quote from: Crash_It on November 02, 2020, 05:32:41 PM
I'm not claiming that I'm a perfect driver
Well that's a relief! Based on these clips, you're not even close to perfect. Your aggression is alarming. Then again, fairly par for the course for most of these dashcam posters.
These bad driver videos are so insanely lame. They have to be one of the most passive aggressive series on YouTube. They highlight nothing except the uploader's driving style and a bunch of everyday, very normal things that any driver would see and be expected to deal with without having to honk, slam on the brakes, etc. Plus, you can almost always count on an overreaction on the "cammers" part to get something good for their YouTube videos. I'm 99% sure most near-hits are caused by dashcam users trying to get a clip.
Quote from: Crash_It on November 02, 2020, 06:54:30 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 02, 2020, 05:41:19 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on November 02, 2020, 05:32:41 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 02, 2020, 05:21:15 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on November 02, 2020, 05:17:55 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 02, 2020, 05:03:02 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on November 02, 2020, 04:40:25 PM
As shown in my most recent video it seems that the general skill level of the driving public is actually declining rather than improving. The Covid-19 pandemic seems to have exacerbated this moreso. I have clips from before and during the pandemic as comparison. You'll see various areas of Chicagoland in this video as well. Thoughts as to any other reasons why this is? I mean, I'm not necessarily bothered by it as it will always provide me with some content to produce once my backlog runs out.
90% of the issues you present really aren't issues. Many of the issues you create yourself by speeding up to the other vehicle and tailgating.
Someone slowing down to make a right turn is bad driving? Seriously?
I'm not sure how a before and after video comparison is meaningful. You're driving around for hours and taking small 5 second clips of bad drivers. Nothing different than a news reporter talking to 20 people. 19 have 1 viewpoint. The 20th has a different viewpoint. News reporter airs report with that single person's viewpoint because that's the narrative of the story they want to broadcast.
I'm not speeding up to the other vehicles at all or tailgating. Making a right turn without signaling is bad driving as is not turning onto the correct side of the roadway. These are snapshots in time of a person's bad driving, it is possible that during their drive beforehand or afterwards, they weren't making any mistakes. Just that at that point in time, they did.
So when someone critiques your driving it's not okay? It's only okay when you critique others?
I'm not claiming that I'm a perfect driver, I even say that in the disclaimer. I'm just saying that when you do so, reference a law that I supposedly broke. Says that in the disclaimer too. It's perfectly okay to critique as long as it's done constructively. I may not be the best driver, but at this point in time..those drivers were worse. I have not ever done any of these maneuvers shown in this video.
But do you critique constructively? Nothing you've posted on this forum seems to suggest to me (to which I'm stating my opinion from watching the materials presented thus far) that is actually the case. Your posting regarding driving behaviors always struck me as though you are someone who gets angry and frustrated easily at the actions of others. It certainly doesn't help that you cherry pick clips of your driving which still show you not to be all that beyond the people you are being critical of.
Where do you see me being angry or frustrated besides in the 2019 section at one clip? I politely call out the driving behaviors.
I mean, what other explanation could there be that makes logical sense based off your driving style? You're the one who seems to be hyper concerned with how other people drive. Unless you're a police officer or a driving instructor it's hard to fathom as an onlooker why this is stance you choose to take so frequently with the driving ability of others? Either way, you don't present much evidence in your videos that you're any more skillful than the drivers you are being critical of. While I would agree that the generalized level of skill has declined among the driving populace I also think you're missing a couple reasons why that is:
- Roads for the most part are designed better. That said, I can attest to the fact as someone who lived in Chicago for a time that the area is definitely not the best example.
- Cars don't require the same level of skill to operate that they did 30 years ago, especially in a suburban setting. Suburban drivers (my opinion living in a mountainous region) in my experience generally don't obtain the same skill set that others in more rural/more difficult settings do.
- Your expectations of others are far too high. These are still people driving these cars and not machines. People get frustrated, make errors in judgment, might have poor skill, or some other human factor.
(I posted this in the District of Columbia thread by accident at first...)
Didn't Kemp allow people to get a driver's license by taking only the written test?
Quote from: Crash_It on November 02, 2020, 06:54:30 PM
Where do you see me being angry or frustrated besides in the 2019 section at one clip?
Every single time you speed up to pass someone.
Every single time you have to describe what the issue is when it's not apparent.
Every single time you get right on someone's ass after they do something wrong.
Every single time you hit the horn. Sometimes it's good to alert someone to a danger. Honking the horn at someone who already turned right without a turn signal means nothing to the offender.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 02, 2020, 07:16:10 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on November 02, 2020, 06:54:30 PM
Where do you see me being angry or frustrated besides in the 2019 section at one clip?
Every single time you speed up to pass someone.
Well, who wants to be stuck behind someone driving 15mph under the posted limit for no good reason other than to do it? When you're stuck behind someone travelling slow, you get more red lights, you have to brake often because again, they aren't sure of what they're doing and will keep changing their speed or brake excessively. And also, sometimes it's best to accelerate out of a dangerous situation than to brake
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 02, 2020, 07:16:10 PM
Every single time you have to describe what the issue is when it's not apparent. Has nothing to do with anger or frustration.
Because sometimes, the audience won't know what's going on or understand why it's wrong even if it's apparent.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 02, 2020, 07:16:10 PM
Every single time you get right on someone's ass after they do something wrong.
Where do you see that?
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 02, 2020, 07:16:10 PM
Every single time you hit the horn. Sometimes it's good to alert someone to a danger. Honking the horn at someone who already turned right without a turn signal means nothing to the offender.
Still not angry or frustrated when I honk unless it's a really bad situation almost causing an accident. Most of the time I just laugh or sing what they did to whatever song is playing.
^^^
I think you're missing the mark if you were looking for affirmation here. That was a pretty detailed break down of your driving which isn't something I think you were expecting. Also wasn't just one person who was seeing the same average/sub-par driving behavior, I see the same things. This is all kind of weak sauce on your part trying to twist the narrative around to anything other than a typical day of urban driving. Maybe you'd have better luck on a dedicated Facebook group for this kind of "outrage" stuff?
Edit: Suffice to say you must be passionate about this (for whatever reason) considering how many videos your channel has. I guess everyone needs a hobby.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 02, 2020, 07:07:32 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on November 02, 2020, 06:54:30 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 02, 2020, 05:41:19 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on November 02, 2020, 05:32:41 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 02, 2020, 05:21:15 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on November 02, 2020, 05:17:55 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 02, 2020, 05:03:02 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on November 02, 2020, 04:40:25 PM
As shown in my most recent video it seems that the general skill level of the driving public is actually declining rather than improving. The Covid-19 pandemic seems to have exacerbated this moreso. I have clips from before and during the pandemic as comparison. You'll see various areas of Chicagoland in this video as well. Thoughts as to any other reasons why this is? I mean, I'm not necessarily bothered by it as it will always provide me with some content to produce once my backlog runs out.
90% of the issues you present really aren't issues. Many of the issues you create yourself by speeding up to the other vehicle and tailgating.
Someone slowing down to make a right turn is bad driving? Seriously?
I'm not sure how a before and after video comparison is meaningful. You're driving around for hours and taking small 5 second clips of bad drivers. Nothing different than a news reporter talking to 20 people. 19 have 1 viewpoint. The 20th has a different viewpoint. News reporter airs report with that single person's viewpoint because that's the narrative of the story they want to broadcast.
I'm not speeding up to the other vehicles at all or tailgating. Making a right turn without signaling is bad driving as is not turning onto the correct side of the roadway. These are snapshots in time of a person's bad driving, it is possible that during their drive beforehand or afterwards, they weren't making any mistakes. Just that at that point in time, they did.
So when someone critiques your driving it's not okay? It's only okay when you critique others?
I'm not claiming that I'm a perfect driver, I even say that in the disclaimer. I'm just saying that when you do so, reference a law that I supposedly broke. Says that in the disclaimer too. It's perfectly okay to critique as long as it's done constructively. I may not be the best driver, but at this point in time..those drivers were worse. I have not ever done any of these maneuvers shown in this video.
But do you critique constructively? Nothing you've posted on this forum seems to suggest to me (to which I'm stating my opinion from watching the materials presented thus far) that is actually the case. Your posting regarding driving behaviors always struck me as though you are someone who gets angry and frustrated easily at the actions of others. It certainly doesn't help that you cherry pick clips of your driving which still show you not to be all that beyond the people you are being critical of.
Where do you see me being angry or frustrated besides in the 2019 section at one clip? I politely call out the driving behaviors.
I mean, what other explanation could there be that makes logical sense based off your driving style? You're the one who seems to be hyper concerned with how other people drive. Unless you're a police officer or a driving instructor it's hard to fathom as an onlooker why this is stance you choose to take so frequently with the driving ability of others? Either way, you don't present much evidence in your videos that you're any more skillful than the drivers you are being critical of. While I would agree that the generalized level of skill has declined among the driving populace I also think you're missing a couple reasons why that is:
- Roads for the most part are designed better. That said, I can attest to the fact as someone who lived in Chicago for a time that the area is definitely not the best example.
- Cars don't require the same level of skill to operate that they did 30 years ago, especially in a suburban setting. Suburban drivers (my opinion living in a mountainous region) in my experience generally don't obtain the same skill set that others in more rural/more difficult settings do.
- Your expectations of others are far too high. These are still people driving these cars and not machines. People get frustrated, make errors in judgment, might have poor skill, or some other human factor.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 02, 2020, 07:07:32 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on November 02, 2020, 06:54:30 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 02, 2020, 05:41:19 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on November 02, 2020, 05:32:41 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 02, 2020, 05:21:15 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on November 02, 2020, 05:17:55 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 02, 2020, 05:03:02 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on November 02, 2020, 04:40:25 PM
As shown in my most recent video it seems that the general skill level of the driving public is actually declining rather than improving. The Covid-19 pandemic seems to have exacerbated this moreso. I have clips from before and during the pandemic as comparison. You'll see various areas of Chicagoland in this video as well. Thoughts as to any other reasons why this is? I mean, I'm not necessarily bothered by it as it will always provide me with some content to produce once my backlog runs out.
90% of the issues you present really aren't issues. Many of the issues you create yourself by speeding up to the other vehicle and tailgating.
Someone slowing down to make a right turn is bad driving? Seriously?
I'm not sure how a before and after video comparison is meaningful. You're driving around for hours and taking small 5 second clips of bad drivers. Nothing different than a news reporter talking to 20 people. 19 have 1 viewpoint. The 20th has a different viewpoint. News reporter airs report with that single person's viewpoint because that's the narrative of the story they want to broadcast.
I'm not speeding up to the other vehicles at all or tailgating. Making a right turn without signaling is bad driving as is not turning onto the correct side of the roadway. These are snapshots in time of a person's bad driving, it is possible that during their drive beforehand or afterwards, they weren't making any mistakes. Just that at that point in time, they did.
So when someone critiques your driving it's not okay? It's only okay when you critique others?
I'm not claiming that I'm a perfect driver, I even say that in the disclaimer. I'm just saying that when you do so, reference a law that I supposedly broke. Says that in the disclaimer too. It's perfectly okay to critique as long as it's done constructively. I may not be the best driver, but at this point in time..those drivers were worse. I have not ever done any of these maneuvers shown in this video.
But do you critique constructively? Nothing you've posted on this forum seems to suggest to me (to which I'm stating my opinion from watching the materials presented thus far) that is actually the case. Your posting regarding driving behaviors always struck me as though you are someone who gets angry and frustrated easily at the actions of others. It certainly doesn't help that you cherry pick clips of your driving which still show you not to be all that beyond the people you are being critical of.
Where do you see me being angry or frustrated besides in the 2019 section at one clip? I politely call out the driving behaviors.
I mean, what other explanation could there be that makes logical sense based off your driving style? You're the one who seems to be hyper concerned with how other people drive. Unless you're a police officer or a driving instructor it's hard to fathom as an onlooker why this is stance you choose to take so frequently with the driving ability of others? Either way, you don't present much evidence in your videos that you're any more skillful than the drivers you are being critical of. While I would agree that the generalized level of skill has declined among the driving populace I also think you're missing a couple reasons why that is:
- Roads for the most part are designed better. That said, I can attest to the fact as someone who lived in Chicago for a time that the area is definitely not the best example.
- Cars don't require the same level of skill to operate that they did 30 years ago, especially in a suburban setting. Suburban drivers (my opinion living in a mountainous region) in my experience generally don't obtain the same skill set that others in more rural/more difficult settings do.
- Your expectations of others are far too high. These are still people driving these cars and not machines. People get frustrated, make errors in judgment, might have poor skill, or some other human factor.
QuoteSuburban drivers (my opinion living in a mountainous region) in my experience generally don't obtain the same skill set that others in more rural/more difficult settings do.
My observations tell me that big city drivers have much better driving skills. Driving in a big city is much more challenging than in the country. In spite of this, people from rural areas seem to have way more accidents, despite the fact that driving in these rural areas in incredibly easy and simple. I can see your point about how driving in a mountainous area requires a higher/ separate skill set that is not obtained from driving on flat land
^^^
For clarity, I'm mainly referring to rural mountainous regions. For example; I wouldn't expect someone in rural Florida to carry the same skill set as a rural part of the Colorado Rockies.
Failing to use a turn signal? Really? People do that all the time, all over, and they have for years and years and years. If anything, I've noticed compliance
improving with time, not diminishing.
Turning into the wrong lane? Really? People do that all the time, all over, and they have for years and years and years. Get over it.
Chaos is not ensuing because of these missteps. Crashes are not happening because of them. Traffic flows just fine despite them. You need to let people be people, not expect them to be robots programmed to obey all of the laws you're concerned with. You also need to spend some time driving in some other country where rules are even looser than here. Come with me to Mexico sometime, for example. That'll cure a lot of your hang-ups.
Quote from: Crash_It on November 02, 2020, 09:00:01 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 02, 2020, 07:16:10 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on November 02, 2020, 06:54:30 PM
Where do you see me being angry or frustrated besides in the 2019 section at one clip?
Every single time you speed up to pass someone.
Well, who wants to be stuck behind someone driving 15mph under the posted limit for no good reason other than to do it? When you're stuck behind someone travelling slow, you get more red lights, you have to brake often because again, they aren't sure of what they're doing and will keep changing their speed or brake excessively. And also, sometimes it's best to accelerate out of a dangerous situation than to brake
So, then, you admit that you were angry or frustrated? Just that you were
entitled to be so?
Also, my experience driving in Chicagoland is that driving slower
doesn't usually result in getting more red lights. I used to experiment with various driving speeds in DuPage County, and I found that a difference of 5-10 mph hardly made any difference at all to my arrival time. Sometimes, if I consistently drove
under the speed limit, I would arrive to a certain point at the same time as another driver who consistently drove
over the speed limit–because
that driver kept getting all the red lights, whereas I was rolling up to them as they changed to green.
Quote from: Brian556 on November 02, 2020, 09:50:46 PM
QuoteSuburban drivers (my opinion living in a mountainous region) in my experience generally don't obtain the same skill set that others in more rural/more difficult settings do.
My observations tell me that big city drivers have much better driving skills. Driving in a big city is much more challenging than in the country. In spite of this, people from rural areas seem to have way more accidents, despite the fact that driving in these rural areas in incredibly easy and simple. I can see your point about how driving in a mountainous area requires a higher/ separate skill set that is not obtained from driving on flat land
I agree that urban and suburban drivers are both more skilled at driving, and I also hold that rural drivers are less likely to obey certain laws like signaling and choosing the proper lane.
^^^
I actually thought about bringing up Mexico and comparing how traffic rolls in places like Guadalajara. I think some of the driving norms and lack of traffic control would be a huge shock to the OP.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 04, 2020, 02:54:26 PM
^^^
I actually thought about bringing up Mexico and comparing how traffic rolls in places like Guadalajara. I think some of the driving norms and lack of traffic control would be a huge shock to the OP.
Other countries as well. My experiences in Punta Cana, DR, are quite memorable...the taxi driver that made a right-turn at a traffic light, made a u-ey, then another right turn getting back on the road to avoid a 30 second red light was experienced on our first trip there.
And yet, they have, arguably, better traffic lighting equipment than we have in the US. The stick-figure person actually walking for the pedestrian walking light is one of my favorites.
Quotehttps://youtu.be/R1yIeDSiFWQ?t=100
Uh, you might want to look up how a two way stop works - as the vehicle going straight, the BMW has the right of way there. You would absolutely have been at fault in any accident. The rules that apply at four way stops (the vehicle that gets there first goes first) do not apply at two way stops.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 04, 2020, 03:05:28 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 04, 2020, 02:54:26 PM
^^^
I actually thought about bringing up Mexico and comparing how traffic rolls in places like Guadalajara. I think some of the driving norms and lack of traffic control would be a huge shock to the OP.
Other countries as well. My experiences in Punta Cana, DR, are quite memorable...the taxi driver that made a right-turn at a traffic light, made a u-ey, then another right turn getting back on the road to avoid a 30 second red light was experienced on our first trip there.
And yet, they have, arguably, better traffic lighting equipment than we have in the US. The stick-figure person actually walking for the pedestrian walking light is one of my favorites.
International travel to Central and South America can be especially adventuresome no matter where it is from my experience. I did a break down on Jalisco State earlier this year after spent two weeks down there:
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=26480.0
My personal was crossing 54D via some dirt/cobblestone roads to get to a family ranch. The only comparison I can think of State Side is I-10 and I-40 in rural Texas.
One thing they told me a lot when I was learning to drive:
Quote
Always remember - you're not the only idiot on the road. Others also make mistakes. Treat those mistakes as you want yours to be treated.
Decades and hundreds thousands miles later, I still fully appreciate that approach.
Quote from: corco on November 04, 2020, 03:15:21 PM
Quotehttps://youtu.be/R1yIeDSiFWQ?t=100
Uh, you might want to look up how a two way stop works - as the vehicle going straight, the BMW has the right of way there. You would absolutely have been at fault in any accident. The rules that apply at four way stops (the vehicle that gets there first goes first) do not apply at two way stops.
Can you provide the reference? I'm looking through the Illinois Vehicle Code, and I don't see anything that corroborates your assertion.
General rule for yielding to the right when two drivers approach at the same time: 625 ILCS 5/11-901(a). Does not apply, because neither drive is to the left or right of the other.
What to do at a stop sign: 625 ILCS 5/11-904(b). Just says to yield to a vehicle "which has entered the intersection from another roadway or which is approaching so closely...". Does not apply unless the other driver has already started going straight.
General rule for turning left: 625 ILCS 5/11-902. Just says to yield to a vehicle "approaching from the opposite direction which is so close as to constitute an immediate hazard". Does not apply unless the other driver has already started going straight.
I stopped watching after the first clip. You passed a guy, on a city street, when there were other cars no more than a block ahead of him.
You're the kind of guy who tailgates me in the left lane of an interstate while I'm behind a semi going 66 that's passing another semi going 65, and when you get even more impatient you pass me on the right to cut in front of me because the safe distance I'm keeping behind the semi is a big enough space for you to squeeze into.
Quote from: kphoger on November 04, 2020, 03:31:56 PM
Quote from: corco on November 04, 2020, 03:15:21 PM
Quotehttps://youtu.be/R1yIeDSiFWQ?t=100
Uh, you might want to look up how a two way stop works - as the vehicle going straight, the BMW has the right of way there. You would absolutely have been at fault in any accident. The rules that apply at four way stops (the vehicle that gets there first goes first) do not apply at two way stops.
Can you provide the reference? I'm looking through the Illinois Vehicle Code, and I don't see anything that corroborates your assertion.
General rule for yielding to the right when two drivers approach at the same time: 625 ILCS 5/11-901(a). Does not apply, because neither drive is to the left or right of the other.
What to do at a stop sign: 625 ILCS 5/11-904(b). Just says to yield to a vehicle "which has entered the intersection from another roadway or which is approaching so closely...". Does not apply unless the other driver has already started going straight.
General rule for turning left: 625 ILCS 5/11-902. Just says to yield to a vehicle "approaching from the opposite direction which is so close as to constitute an immediate hazard". Does not apply unless the other driver has already started going straight.
If they both start going at the same time, which appears to be what they are doing in the video (and code would suggest they have the right to do), then the below would apply:
(625 ILCS 5/11-902) (from Ch. 95 1/2, par. 11-902)
Sec. 11-902. Vehicle turning left. The driver of a vehicle intending to turn to the left within an intersection or into an alley, private road, or driveway shall yield the right-of-way to any vehicle approaching from the opposite direction which is so close as to constitute an immediate hazard, but said driver, having so yielded may proceed at such time as a safe interval occurs.
Left turning traffic always yields to traffic going straight if folks are in the intersection simultaneously - you don't just get to turn left in front of people - and indeed it wouldn't have been a big deal for him to just take the foot off the gas for a second to let the BMW go through before turning left while within the intersection. It is interesting that Illinois doesn't seem to have a separate statute/procedure for all-way stops, so I was slightly incorrect there.
Page 26 of the Illinois driver manual specifically notes that the car who gets there first goes first but only at four-way stops - I assume that must be in statute somehwere:
https://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/publications/pdf_publications/dsd_a112.pdf
Page 31 gets into left turns:
When making a left turn, a driver should:
• Yield the right of way to pedestrians, emergency vehicles and other vehicles in the inter-section.
• Check all approaching traffic.
I've never driven in a state where (left) turning traffic does not have to yield right of way to traffic moving straight. (Right turning traffic does not come in conflict with traffic moving straight so there is no right of way to yield).
Quote from: corco on November 04, 2020, 03:36:36 PM
If they both start going at the same time, which appears to be what they are doing in the video (and code would suggest they have the right to do), then the below would apply:
But that's the same for four-way stops too. If someone starts going through the intersection–no matter from which direction–then you have to yield to that driver. But that doesn't mean the other driver had the right of way to do so.
Same with a two-way stop. If someone starts going through the intersection, then you have to yield. But that doesn't mean the other driver had the right of way to do so.
Quote from: corco on November 04, 2020, 03:36:36 PM
Left turning traffic always yields to traffic going straight if folks are in the intersection simultaneously - you don't just get to turn left in front of people
When stop signs aren't involved, then I totally agree with you. However, when an oncoming driver has already stopped at a stop sign, then he is no longer "entering" the intersection. He's stopped, and therefore any requirement to yield to him does not apply.
For clarity, I'm not necessarily speaking to what happened in the video, but about your assertion that "the rules that apply at four way stops (the vehicle that gets there first goes first) do not apply at two way stops".
When I was a young, new driver, I thought that the left-turning driver always had to yield to oncoming drivers. Then, one day, I found myself wanting to turn left at a two-way stop. There was a whole line of cars facing me either going straight or turning right. I sat there like a fool, letting oncoming car after oncoming car go first. Eventually, I realized that, if I kept that up, I'd
never turn left.
Quote from: kphoger on November 04, 2020, 03:46:06 PM
Quote from: corco on November 04, 2020, 03:36:36 PM
If they both start going at the same time, which appears to be what they are doing in the video (and code would suggest they have the right to do), then the below would apply:
But that's the same for four-way stops too. If someone starts going through the intersection—no matter from which direction—then you have to yield to that driver. But that doesn't mean the other driver had the right of way to do so.
Same with a two-way stop. If someone starts going through the intersection, then you have to yield. But that doesn't mean the other driver had the right of way to do so.
Quote from: corco on November 04, 2020, 03:36:36 PM
Left turning traffic always yields to traffic going straight if folks are in the intersection simultaneously - you don't just get to turn left in front of people
When stop signs aren't involved, then I totally agree with you. However, when an oncoming driver has already stopped at a stop sign, then he is no longer "entering" the intersection. He's stopped, and therefore any requirement to yield to him does not apply.
For clarity, I'm not necessarily speaking to what happened in the video, but about your assertion that "the rules that apply at four way stops (the vehicle that gets there first goes first) do not apply at two way stops".
When I was a young, new driver, I thought that the left-turning driver always had to yield to oncoming drivers. Then, one day, I found myself wanting to turn left at a two-way stop. There was a whole line of cars facing me either going straight or turning right. I sat there like a fool, letting oncoming car after oncoming car go first. Eventually, I realized that, if I kept that up, I'd never turn left.
It is an often misunderstood rule, and a lot of folks break it so I'm always careful if I get to an intersection and somebody is waiting to turn left - but I have never ever found a law or official document in any state that says the first person to the intersection gets to go first in any context other than a four way stop or when cars are perpendicular to each other. I can't prove a negative so would volley that over to you.
Barring that, I'm not exactly sure what the legal defense would be - obviously yes, if you were already in the intersection when the person started to go from the stop sign they'd be liable (if you can prove that). I'm not sure what would inherently give you the right to go first though. I don't think any such law exists, and so you'd be fighting an uphill battle with a cop if you got in a crash under these circumstances.
I've been driving under that general rule for 17 years now - my folks for decades beyond that. It's not all that tricky - you can always eventually turn left - or a better practice is to enter the intersection with your signal on, allow the oncoming car to go straight (if they are already in the intersection), and then complete your left turn before the next car at the oncoming stop sign turns.
Laws hardly ever specify that a driver gets to go first. Laws generally only specify when a driver has to yield.
Because the law only states that, if I'm turning left at a two-way stop sign, I must yield to any vehicles already in the intersection or approaching so closely as to be an immediate hazard, then I am free of any obligation to yield to an oncoming driver who is currently stopped–regardless of who got there first.
In fact, as you have noted, the law doesn't require either one of us to wait for the other.
Other states may indeed have clarification on their books.
Quote from: kphoger on November 04, 2020, 03:59:40 PM
In fact, as you have noted, the law doesn't require either one of us to wait for the other.
Right, but that's exactly the point - if neither of you have explicit priority and then you turn left into somebody, there is actually a law on the books for that - and that's what you'd be cited for. You'd be the one that failed to yield right of way. If a police officer has to respond to this crash and sees that you've turned left into/in front of somebody, I would be willing to be large sums of money you'd be the one found at fault.
Quote from: corco on November 04, 2020, 04:01:47 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 04, 2020, 03:59:40 PM
In fact, as you have noted, the law doesn't require either one of us to wait for the other.
Right, but that's exactly the point - if neither of you have explicit priority and then you turn left into somebody, there is actually a law on the books for that - and that's what you'd be cited for. You'd be the one that failed to yield right of way. If a police officer has to respond to this crash and sees that you've turned left into/in front of somebody, I would be willing to be large sums of money you'd be the one found at fault.
But, if I start going first and then the oncoming driver starts to go and we crash, then the other driver would be in violation of the law requiring him to yield to vehicles already in the intersection. Depends who runs into whose fender.
Quote from: kphoger on November 04, 2020, 03:46:06 PM
Quote from: corco on November 04, 2020, 03:36:36 PM
If they both start going at the same time, which appears to be what they are doing in the video (and code would suggest they have the right to do), then the below would apply:
But that's the same for four-way stops too. If someone starts going through the intersection–no matter from which direction–then you have to yield to that driver. But that doesn't mean the other driver had the right of way to do so.
Same with a two-way stop. If someone starts going through the intersection, then you have to yield. But that doesn't mean the other driver had the right of way to do so.
Quote from: corco on November 04, 2020, 03:36:36 PM
Left turning traffic always yields to traffic going straight if folks are in the intersection simultaneously - you don't just get to turn left in front of people
When stop signs aren't involved, then I totally agree with you. However, when an oncoming driver has already stopped at a stop sign, then he is no longer "entering" the intersection. He's stopped, and therefore any requirement to yield to him does not apply.
For clarity, I'm not necessarily speaking to what happened in the video, but about your assertion that "the rules that apply at four way stops (the vehicle that gets there first goes first) do not apply at two way stops".
When I was a young, new driver, I thought that the left-turning driver always had to yield to oncoming drivers. Then, one day, I found myself wanting to turn left at a two-way stop. There was a whole line of cars facing me either going straight or turning right. I sat there like a fool, letting oncoming car after oncoming car go first. Eventually, I realized that, if I kept that up, I'd never turn left.
Whatever it is for a 2-way stop, the intersection in question is NOT one of them. This is an all-way stop with 2-way street intersecting one-way street, so only 3 legs having a stop sign.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.982903,-87.7112823,3a,75y,28.84h,82.21t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1spD2HLWg7Ie0zc8bxWJliFw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
So, first come, first go. It is unclear from the video who was there first.
I suspect insurance would say mutual fault in this case, as stop sign is designed to give all parties time to ensure others are not in their way. Turning left may be an aggregating factor.
Quote from: kalvado on November 04, 2020, 04:25:19 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 04, 2020, 03:46:06 PM
Quote from: corco on November 04, 2020, 03:36:36 PM
If they both start going at the same time, which appears to be what they are doing in the video (and code would suggest they have the right to do), then the below would apply:
But that's the same for four-way stops too. If someone starts going through the intersection–no matter from which direction–then you have to yield to that driver. But that doesn't mean the other driver had the right of way to do so.
Same with a two-way stop. If someone starts going through the intersection, then you have to yield. But that doesn't mean the other driver had the right of way to do so.
Quote from: corco on November 04, 2020, 03:36:36 PM
Left turning traffic always yields to traffic going straight if folks are in the intersection simultaneously - you don't just get to turn left in front of people
When stop signs aren't involved, then I totally agree with you. However, when an oncoming driver has already stopped at a stop sign, then he is no longer "entering" the intersection. He's stopped, and therefore any requirement to yield to him does not apply.
For clarity, I'm not necessarily speaking to what happened in the video, but about your assertion that "the rules that apply at four way stops (the vehicle that gets there first goes first) do not apply at two way stops".
When I was a young, new driver, I thought that the left-turning driver always had to yield to oncoming drivers. Then, one day, I found myself wanting to turn left at a two-way stop. There was a whole line of cars facing me either going straight or turning right. I sat there like a fool, letting oncoming car after oncoming car go first. Eventually, I realized that, if I kept that up, I'd never turn left.
Whatever it is for a 2-way stop, the intersection in question is NOT one of them. This is an all-way stop with 2-way street intersecting one-way street, so only 3 legs having a stop sign.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.982903,-87.7112823,3a,75y,28.84h,82.21t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1spD2HLWg7Ie0zc8bxWJliFw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
So, first come, first go. It is unclear from the video who was there first.
I suspect insurance would say mutual fault in this case, as stop sign is designed to give all parties time to ensure others are not in their way. Turning left may be an aggregating factor.
Oh hey good call - couldn't see that plaque from the video.
Quote from: kalvado on November 04, 2020, 04:25:19 PM
I suspect insurance would say mutual fault in this case, as stop sign is designed to give all parties time to ensure others are not in their way. Turning left may be an aggregating factor.
Yep.
In fact, bringing up insurance... For the fender bender I had earlier this year... Nobody received a ticket, my insurance company got $400 of my $500 repair bill back from the other party's insurance company, yet my rates are still going up by $40 a month this cycle.
Quote from: cabiness42 on November 04, 2020, 03:36:31 PM
I stopped watching after the first clip. You passed a guy, on a city street, when there were other cars no more than a block ahead of him.
-It's not illegal to pass on a City street unless it is double striped or designated as a no passing zone... None of which is the case.
- He was going way too much below the posted speed limit with no justifiable reason for doing so.
-it was a huge benefit to pass because he got stopped at the next red light while I made it through. I would not have had I not passed.
Quote
You're the kind of guy who tailgates me in the left lane of an interstate while I'm behind a semi going 66 that's passing another semi going 65, and when you get even more impatient you pass me on the right to cut in front of me because the safe distance I'm keeping behind the semi is a big enough space for you to squeeze into.
False, the semi would get the blame in that situation.
Quote from: Crash_It on November 04, 2020, 06:00:37 PM
-It's not illegal to pass on a City street unless it is double striped or designated as a no passing zone... None of which is the case.
But the law is not "you must overtake if X is true". The law permits you to perform the maneuver as you performed it, but that does not mean it was an appropriate maneuver for the area. I see many parked cars and plenty of opportunity for pedestrians to step out.
I have passed on city streets before. Mostly people looking for parking. So I will avoid any double standards. But that clip suggests you are perhaps dangerously impatient.
Quote from: jakeroot on November 04, 2020, 06:20:46 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on November 04, 2020, 06:00:37 PM
-It's not illegal to pass on a City street unless it is double striped or designated as a no passing zone... None of which is the case.
But the law is not "you must overtake if X is true". The law permits you to perform the maneuver as you performed it, but that does not mean it was an appropriate maneuver for the area. I see many parked cars and plenty of opportunity for pedestrians to step out.
I have passed on city streets before. Mostly people looking for parking. So I will avoid any double standards. But that clip suggests you are perhaps dangerously impatient.
I waited for an appropriate and safe opportunity to pass and I took it. He was driving like that for quite sometime prior. Those who are dangerously impatient will pass even when oncoming traffic is close and for three purpose to exceed the speed limit. I was going only two over when I passed him. That's how slow he was... Who would want to be stuck behind that?
Quote from: jakeroot on November 04, 2020, 06:20:46 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on November 04, 2020, 06:00:37 PM
-It's not illegal to pass on a City street unless it is double striped or designated as a no passing zone... None of which is the case.
But the law is not "you must overtake if X is true". The law permits you to perform the maneuver as you performed it, but that does not mean it was an appropriate maneuver for the area. I see many parked cars and plenty of opportunity for pedestrians to step out.
I have passed on city streets before. Mostly people looking for parking. So I will avoid any double standards. But that clip suggests you are perhaps dangerously impatient.
I'm convinced the OP considers himself infallible to criticism by the way these questions are getting answered. Any of us could throw some sort of valid point out about how the OP is driving and it would be rebuffed with a "explanation" as to why it was okay. I'm half convinced the point of these threads is a ploy to grow interest in the OP's Youtube channel.
Quote from: Crash_It on November 04, 2020, 06:32:11 PM
I waited for an appropriate and safe opportunity to pass and I took it. He was driving like that for quite sometime prior. Those who are dangerously impatient will pass even when oncoming traffic is close and for three purpose to exceed the speed limit. I was going only two over when I passed him. That's how slow he was... Who would want to be stuck behind that?
I don't really care how fast you went when you overtook. Here in WA, we are taught to exceed the limit when overtaking (
the law permits this (https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.61.425)), so your behavior is consistent with our practice here anyways. Still, by the time you passed and got behind the car he was behind, you had to slow way down again, back (I'm sure) below the limit. So you were back to what, like, 25 instead of 20? And then he was right behind you anyway. Maybe you'd make the next light but you still look like a massive prat, and you had to perform a rather dangerous maneuver to get to that point. To me, the whole thing was a net loss.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 04, 2020, 06:35:16 PM
I'm convinced the OP considers himself infallible to criticism by the way these questions are getting answered. Any of us could throw some sort of valid point out about how the OP is driving and it would be rebuffed with a "explanation" as to why it was okay. I'm half convinced the point of these threads is a ploy to grow interest in the OP's Youtube channel.
It would seem so, yes.
If I had some constructive criticism:
he needs to include more context in these clips. In most, he comes off like a massive wanker even if there is a legitimate explanation behind his choices. In the case of the first clip from the OP, all we can see is him overtake someone going with the flow of traffic who is just leaving a slightly bigger gap than everyone else. If the driver is going 10 under, it would seem to be because of all the cars in front of him. If that's not the case, why not include the whole clip? Maybe with him making that light that the Avalon supposedly missed.
Quote from: jakeroot on November 04, 2020, 06:52:17 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on November 04, 2020, 06:32:11 PM
I waited for an appropriate and safe opportunity to pass and I took it. He was driving like that for quite sometime prior. Those who are dangerously impatient will pass even when oncoming traffic is close and for three purpose to exceed the speed limit. I was going only two over when I passed him. That's how slow he was... Who would want to be stuck behind that?
I don't really care how fast you went when you overtook. Here in WA, we are taught to exceed the limit when overtaking (the law permits this (https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.61.425)), so your behavior is consistent with our practice here anyways. Still, by the time you passed and got behind the car he was behind, you had to slow way down again, back (I'm sure) below the limit. So you were back to what, like, 25 instead of 20? And then he was right behind you anyway. Maybe you'd make the next light but you still look like a massive prat, and you had to perform a rather dangerous maneuver to get to that point. To me, the whole thing was a net loss.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 04, 2020, 06:35:16 PM
I'm convinced the OP considers himself infallible to criticism by the way these questions are getting answered. Any of us could throw some sort of valid point out about how the OP is driving and it would be rebuffed with a "explanation" as to why it was okay. I'm half convinced the point of these threads is a ploy to grow interest in the OP's Youtube channel.
It would seem so, yes.
If I had some constructive criticism: he needs to include more context in these clips. In most, he comes off like a massive wanker even if there is a legitimate explanation behind his choices. In the case of the first clip from the OP, all we can see is him overtake someone going with the flow of traffic who is just leaving a slightly bigger gap than everyone else. If the driver is going 10 under, it would seem to be because of all the cars in front of him. If that's not the case, why not include the whole clip? Maybe with him making that light that the Avalon supposedly missed.
I didn't have to slow down into the 20s, traffic in front was doing the appropriate speed. It appears that way because he got mad that I passed and sped up to honk.
Quote from: Crash_It on November 04, 2020, 06:58:12 PM
I didn't have to slow down into the 20s, traffic in front was doing the appropriate speed. It appears that way because he got mad that I passed and sped up to honk.
So why include the clip? A vital part of the context is completely missing from the video.
Maybe you're not a completely crap driver, but your editing skills need work. Based on your responses to our comments here, we are all misunderstanding your clips. They're not long enough and don't include information that you're later relying on to prove your innocence.
Quote from: jakeroot on November 04, 2020, 07:05:37 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on November 04, 2020, 06:58:12 PM
I didn't have to slow down into the 20s, traffic in front was doing the appropriate speed. It appears that way because he got mad that I passed and sped up to honk.
So why include the clip? A vital part of the context is completely missing from the video.
Maybe you're not a completely crap driver, but your editing skills need work. Based on your responses to our comments here, we are all misunderstanding your clips. They're not long enough and don't include information that you're later relying on to prove your innocence.
Judging by the comments I'm seeing on the OP's videos his viewership is mostly people looking for something short to complain about that's relatable. That's all well and good hawking the bottom of the barrel on YouTube but it doesn't carry over to the Road Geek World. Too many of us know the actual traffic laws and can nitpick the hell out of short edits that don't contextualize the scenario at hand fully.
Quote from: Crash_It on November 04, 2020, 06:32:11 PM
I waited for an appropriate and safe opportunity to pass and I took it. He was driving like that for quite sometime prior. Those who are dangerously impatient will pass even when oncoming traffic is close and for three purpose to exceed the speed limit. I was going only two over when I passed him. That's how slow he was... Who would want to be stuck behind that?
Quote from: Crash_It on November 04, 2020, 06:32:11 PM
I didn't have to slow down into the 20s, traffic in front was doing the appropriate speed. It appears that way because he got mad that I passed and sped up to honk.
The explanation makes no sense whatsoever. You passed him because he was going too slow. Based on what you said, that would mean about 20 mph. But as you passed him, there were two vehicles in front of him. You said they were going the appropriate speed. How is it possible those two cars were going 30+ mph yet the car you passed was only going 20 mph, and there was that small of a gap between the vehicles?
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 04, 2020, 07:29:08 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 04, 2020, 07:05:37 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on November 04, 2020, 06:58:12 PM
I didn't have to slow down into the 20s, traffic in front was doing the appropriate speed. It appears that way because he got mad that I passed and sped up to honk.
So why include the clip? A vital part of the context is completely missing from the video.
Maybe you're not a completely crap driver, but your editing skills need work. Based on your responses to our comments here, we are all misunderstanding your clips. They're not long enough and don't include information that you're later relying on to prove your innocence.
Judging by the comments I'm seeing on the OP's videos his viewership is mostly people looking for something short to complain about that's relatable. That's all well and good hawking the bottom of the barrel on YouTube but it doesn't carry over to the Road Geek World. Too many of us know the actual traffic laws and can nitpick the hell out of short edits that don't contextualize the scenario at hand fully.
Very true. I find most 'cammers' (as they call themselves) are largely younger drivers with a passion for getting angry, and who use speed, aggression, and intimidation to solve their problems. I mean, I can't say those things aren't legit tactics for dealing with certain drivers under certain situations, but 'cammers' seem to use the same very aggressive tactics for most of their interactions. Even those that are largely minor, like not signaling, driving a little too slow, driving too close or too far back, etc. Things that are just part of driving but which absolutely drive 'cammers' up the wall.
I like dashcams, and I think they're a great asset for the modern driver. But the 'bad drivers' series on YouTube is about two things: views and collective anger. It's a circle j**k. Period.
Quote from: jakeroot on November 04, 2020, 10:35:06 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 04, 2020, 07:29:08 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 04, 2020, 07:05:37 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on November 04, 2020, 06:58:12 PM
I didn't have to slow down into the 20s, traffic in front was doing the appropriate speed. It appears that way because he got mad that I passed and sped up to honk.
So why include the clip? A vital part of the context is completely missing from the video.
Maybe you're not a completely crap driver, but your editing skills need work. Based on your responses to our comments here, we are all misunderstanding your clips. They're not long enough and don't include information that you're later relying on to prove your innocence.
Judging by the comments I'm seeing on the OP's videos his viewership is mostly people looking for something short to complain about that's relatable. That's all well and good hawking the bottom of the barrel on YouTube but it doesn't carry over to the Road Geek World. Too many of us know the actual traffic laws and can nitpick the hell out of short edits that don't contextualize the scenario at hand fully.
Very true. I find most 'cammers' (as they call themselves) are largely younger drivers with a passion for getting angry, and who use speed, aggression, and intimidation to solve their problems. I mean, I can't say those things aren't legit tactics for dealing with certain drivers under certain situations, but 'cammers' seem to use the same very aggressive tactics for most of their interactions. Even those that are largely minor, like not signaling, driving a little too slow, driving too close or too far back, etc. Things that are just part of driving but which absolutely drive 'cammers' up the wall.
I like dashcams, and I think they're a great asset for the modern driver. But the 'bad drivers' series on YouTube is about two things: views and collective anger. It's a circle j**k. Period.
To that end I'm not sure what the point of all these videos on this forum are? I'm not really sure how they are a contribution to "Road Geeking" aside from some of the productive commentary which spawned in this thread. Also, why does it seem like so many of those posters come from Chicagoland? I'm tempted to ask if these videos somehow involve a Sabb with a diesel engine.
Quote from: Crash_It on November 02, 2020, 04:40:25 PM
As shown in my most recent video it seems that the general skill level of the driving public is actually declining rather than improving. The Covid-19 pandemic seems to have exacerbated this moreso. I have clips from before and during the pandemic as comparison. You'll see various areas of Chicagoland in this video as well. Thoughts as to any other reasons why this is? I mean, I'm not necessarily bothered by it as it will always provide me with some content to produce once my backlog runs out.
So...I see way worse than this in Atlanta all the time, and I'm not half as bothered by it as you seem to be. And the first clip is just reckless on your part. Sure it's annoying when the guy in front of you is going slower than you'd like, but it's not that hard to just deal with it. Passing on a residential street is never acceptable unless the other car pulls over.
Might be a good idea to lay off a bit on the horn, too. I do not honk at people unless I have to take an unusual evasive action to avoid an accident (or when they don't go at a green light, in which case a light tap is generally sufficient). And I certainly don't hold it out in 5+ second blasts.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 04, 2020, 10:45:54 PM
To that end I'm not sure what the point of all these videos on this forum are? I'm not really sure how they are a contribution to "Road Geeking" aside from some of the productive commentary which spawned in this thread. Also, why does it seem like so many of those posters come from Chicagoland? I'm tempted to ask if these videos somehow involve a Sabb with a diesel engine.
Diesel Saabs?!?! That's not a good sign. :no:
I think they are the latest example of extrapolation based solely on anecdotal evidence. It's pretty bad amongst the 'camming' community since they make a point of crafting entire videos around bad drivers: if drivers were improving, there wouldn't be any content!
Quote from: US 89 on November 04, 2020, 10:49:49 PM
And I certainly don't hold it out in 5+ second blasts.
Yeah, but then you won't get any good clips!!! You gotta use that horn to get other cammers to subscribe to you.
:ded: :ded:
Wow, so many of those clips were such minor infractions, that they're hardly worth mentioning. The majority of them are definitely not worth honking a horn. A few were noteworthy, but most of them weren't.
For example... The Caravan coming to a near-stop while straddling the lane line: there was still room to go around the van on the right, so who the heck cares?
As for the whole 'passing on a city street' thing... There was room to pass, and it wasn't reckless behavior to pass the guy. However:
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 04, 2020, 10:19:57 PM
How is it possible those two cars were going 30+ mph yet the car you passed was only going 20 mph, and there was that small of a gap between the vehicles?
That was my thought exactly. I seriously doubt your judgment about the other cars' speeds. If there were actually a clear shot in front of the slowpoke, then the slowpoke should have no right to be upset by being passed. But there wasn't. You passed him to no immediate advantage. You were lucky that the next stoplight was green for you but red for him: otherwise, you would have gained a whopping one car length but perhaps invited the other driver to get out of the car and bash your window in. Or, worse yet, attempted to pass you later on in an even riskier maneuver, potentially causing injury.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 04, 2020, 06:35:16 PM
I'm convinced the OP considers himself infallible to criticism by the way these questions are getting answered. Any of us could throw some sort of valid point out about how the OP is driving and it would be rebuffed with a "explanation" as to why it was okay.
This is so totally true.
We watched a video that supposedly points out other people's bad driving. For quite a number of us–and we are various ages, from various places, with various backgrounds and experiences–it ended up being a video about the OP's bad driving instead. We identified specific displays of driver aggression on the part of the OP, and we considered such to be at least as bad, if not even worse, than the other drivers' errors that prompted it. And all the OP has done is defend himself, point by point, to clear his name of any alleged aggressive or dangerous behavior.
I believe Brandon posted a legitimate video of aggressive drivers in his area (Chicagoland, but not Chicago proper) a few years ago. I forget if it was actually Brandon's video or not.
Quote from: US 89 on November 04, 2020, 10:49:49 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on November 02, 2020, 04:40:25 PM
As shown in my most recent video it seems that the general skill level of the driving public is actually declining rather than improving. The Covid-19 pandemic seems to have exacerbated this moreso. I have clips from before and during the pandemic as comparison. You'll see various areas of Chicagoland in this video as well. Thoughts as to any other reasons why this is? I mean, I'm not necessarily bothered by it as it will always provide me with some content to produce once my backlog runs out.
So...I see way worse than this in Atlanta all the time, and I'm not half as bothered by it as you seem to be. And the first clip is just reckless on your part. Sure it's annoying when the guy in front of you is going slower than you'd like, but it's not that hard to just deal with it. Passing on a residential street is never acceptable unless the other car pulls over.
Might be a good idea to lay off a bit on the horn, too. I do not honk at people unless I have to take an unusual evasive action to avoid an accident (or when they don't go at a green light, in which case a light tap is generally sufficient). And I certainly don't hold it out in 5+ second blasts.
It's even more unacceptable to go 15 in a 30 Zone. That's also not a residential street otherwise it wouldn't be striped. Plus, many residential streets in Chicago are one way and far too narrow for even such a msneuvei that I performed to be possible.
Quote from: kphoger on November 05, 2020, 03:46:57 PM
Wow, so many of those clips were such minor infractions, that they're hardly worth mentioning. The majority of them are definitely not worth honking a horn. A few were noteworthy, but most of them weren't.
For example... The Caravan coming to a near-stop while straddling the lane line: there was still room to go around the van on the right, so who the heck cares?
There was no room to go around the caravan otherwise I wouldn't have honked. Remember,dashcams are wide angle... So they make everything appear further away than they actually are.
And how is a driver running a stop sign out onto a road with oil on it (was being resurfaced) on a rainy day in a 45 Zone a minor infraction? I certainly would've hit him if I hadn't passed.
Quote
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 04, 2020, 10:19:57 PM
How is it possible those two cars were going 30+ mph yet the car you passed was only going 20 mph, and there was that small of a gap between the vehicles?
That was my thought exactly. I seriously doubt your judgment about the other cars' speeds. If there were actually a clear shot in front of the slowpoke, then the slowpoke should have no right to be upset by being passed. But there wasn't. You passed him to no immediate advantage. You were lucky that the next stoplight was green for you but red for him: otherwise, you would have gained a whopping one car length but perhaps invited the other driver to get out of the car and bash your window in. Or, worse yet, attempted to pass you later on in an even riskier maneuver, potentially causing injury.
You have no idea how many drivers will get angry at you just got being passed and I have other examples on my channel that shows that. There was plenty of room in front of him to complete the pass (at least 3 car lengths). The advantage I gained is that I don't have to be subjected to his slow driving anymore and possibly getting more red lights.
[
Quote from: Crash_It on November 06, 2020, 11:51:58 AM
excuses
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-bR1VeXU-mfg/WK8WntWM_4I/AAAAAAAADlo/G8pkTJgb-BgLEC1HXUb1cwJXF5kgFS7mwCEw/s1600/X1QV6.gif)
Quote from: Crash_It on November 06, 2020, 11:42:01 AM
That's also not a residential street otherwise it wouldn't be striped.
That's a non-sequitir.
Here (https://goo.gl/maps/6uBHHbkSakGbQ5Qa9), for example, is a residential street with a center stripe in Chicago. See all those
residences along the sides of the
street?
Here's another one. (https://goo.gl/maps/u1BbMS528S1KLTsbA)
Quote from: Crash_It on November 06, 2020, 11:51:58 AM
There was no room to go around the caravan
The fact that you went around him suggests otherwise.
Quote from: Crash_It on November 06, 2020, 11:51:58 AM
And how is a driver running a stop sign out onto a road with oil on it (was being resurfaced) on a rainy day in a 45 Zone a minor infraction? I certainly would've hit him if I hadn't passed.
I never said it was a minor infraction. What I said was that "
many of those clips were ... minor infractions". I also said that "a few were noteworthy, but
most of them weren't". I didn't say zero were major or noteworthy.
Quote from: Crash_It on November 06, 2020, 11:51:58 AM
There was plenty of room in front of him to complete the pass (at least 3 car lengths). The advantage I gained is that I don't have to be subjected to his slow driving anymore and possibly getting more red lights.
1. I didn't deny that there was room to complete the pass. My "whopping one car length" comment was intended to mean that,
if the light had turned red before you reached it,
then the two of you would have ended up only one car length apart (less, actually) at the stoplight. You lucked out that the light stayed green for you but not for him. The odds were against you in that.
2. The potential advantage to you had a less-than-stunning probability of actually coming to pass (pun intended). You ended up being lucky enough to gain a minute or two during your drive, but you pissed off another driver in the process. That is how road rage happens. Part of defensive driving is choosing not to do something that's likely to make other drivers mad at you.
Quote from: kphoger on November 06, 2020, 01:58:46 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on November 06, 2020, 11:51:58 AM
There was no room to go around the caravan
The fact that you went around him suggests otherwise.
It does bother me how few people actually know the dimensions of their car. For example, that the average car is around 6.5 feet wide, 3.5 feet narrower than the narrowest lane most of us see on a regular basis. You know what I do when someone straddles my lane? Other than watching them, as I would every car, nothing. They are infringing on "my lane" but not my actual path of travel.
Quote from: Crash_It on November 06, 2020, 11:51:58 AM
You have no idea how many drivers will get angry at you just got being passed.
Yeah...no one here ever drives so we don't know how the real world works. [/sarcasm] :rolleyes:
Quote from: Crash_It on November 06, 2020, 11:51:58 AM
There was plenty of room in front of him to complete the pass (at least 3 car lengths). The advantage I gained is that I don't have to be subjected to his slow driving anymore and possibly getting more red lights.
[
So...here's the intersection you went thru just before you passed that vehicle: 4154 N Pulaski Rd, Chicago, IL 60641: https://goo.gl/maps/EQyVFCoszKDyAbZg6 You said you were stuck behind this person hitting red lights for the past 1/2 mile. Based on what I see, there were 4 traffic lights at most in that half-mile span, including the one you went thru that was green. So at most, you hit 3 traffic lights.
I, and I'm sure many others, have dash cams, so we know how they work. In the 3 years I've had them installed on my 2 vehicles, I've probably saved about 4 videos of people driving like assholes, and they were incidents way beyond someone not using a turn signal. Of those 4, I may have watched 1 or 2. The others, by the time I got home, weren't really that big of a deal and I never watched them again.
Quote from: jakeroot on November 06, 2020, 02:12:52 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 06, 2020, 01:58:46 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on November 06, 2020, 11:51:58 AM
There was no room to go around the caravan
The fact that you went around him suggests otherwise.
It does bother me how few people actually know the dimensions of their car. For example, that the average car is around 6.5 feet wide, 3.5 feet narrower than the narrowest lane most of us see on a regular basis. You know what I do when someone straddles my lane? Other than watching them, as I would every car, nothing. They are infringing on "my lane" but not my actual path of travel.
It is often not about just taking that space - it is about lack of control, which may take them another 3-4 - or maybe 10 feet off the course.
Quote from: kphoger on November 06, 2020, 01:58:46 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on November 06, 2020, 11:42:01 AM
That's also not a residential street otherwise it wouldn't be striped.
That's a non-sequitir. Here (https://goo.gl/maps/6uBHHbkSakGbQ5Qa9), for example, is a residential street with a center stripe in Chicago. See all those residences along the sides of the street? Here's another one. (https://goo.gl/maps/u1BbMS528S1KLTsbA)
Those are mixed residential streets meaning that they traverse neighborhoods and commercial areas as well. Streets that are heavily residential are usually posted at 25mph or less in Chicago.
Quote
Quote from: Crash_It on November 06, 2020, 11:51:58 AM
There was no room to go around the caravan
The fact that you went around him suggests otherwise.
yeah, after he scooted over ever so slightly. The fact that it even happened to begin with is a very stupid driving move. No experienced or half decent driver would ever do a move like that.
Quote
Quote from: Crash_It on November 06, 2020, 11:51:58 AM
There was plenty of room in front of him to complete the pass (at least 3 car lengths). The advantage I gained is that I don't have to be subjected to his slow driving anymore and possibly getting more red lights.
1. I didn't deny that there was room to complete the pass. My "whopping one car length" comment was intended to mean that, if the light had turned red before you reached it, then the two of you would have ended up only one car length apart (less, actually) at the stoplight. You lucked out that the light stayed green for you but not for him. The odds were against you in that.
2. The potential advantage to you had a less-than-stunning probability of actually coming to pass (pun intended). You ended up being lucky enough to gain a minute or two during your drive, but you pissed off another driver in the process. That is how road rage happens. Part of defensive driving is choosing not to do something that's likely to make other drivers mad at you.
If a driver is getting angry at another for passing him because of his slow (under the limit) driving then he/she probably shouldn't drive. If I ever find myself under the limit for whatever reason (which is almost never especially in a 30mph zone) and a driver wanted to go the limit, I would move over and let them pass.
Quote from: Crash_It on November 06, 2020, 11:22:07 PM
If a driver is getting angry at another for passing him because of his slow (under the limit) driving then he/she probably shouldn't drive.
There are way too many of those types of drivers to use that as an excuse. It's best to just avoid instigating others simply to save a few moments.
Quote from: jakeroot on November 07, 2020, 01:22:55 AM
Quote from: Crash_It on November 06, 2020, 11:22:07 PM
If a driver is getting angry at another for passing him because of his slow (under the limit) driving then he/she probably shouldn't drive.
There are way too many of those types of drivers to use that as an excuse. It's best to just avoid instigating others simply to save a few moments.
Yeah, probably best to avoid driving like that in a place like Texas...where there's a decent chance the people you're pissing off are going to have guns. Road rage can get ugly fast.
If you're going to have hang-ups about the way other people drive, maybe it's best to just avoid big cities or perhaps just abstaining from driving altogether.
Nobody's perfect, people either make mistakes or just keep doing wrong until they learn their lesson the hard way.
Quote from: US 89 on November 07, 2020, 08:26:12 AM
Yeah, probably best to avoid driving like that in a place like Texas...where there's a decent chance the people you're pissing off are going to have guns. Road rage can get ugly fast.
Sure does. It happened in Detroit this week. Best to lay off the horn.
Having been to Chicago, Crash_It's horn etiquette is pretty awful compared to the typical Chicagoan. There are lengths of beeps for different situations. He just seems to lay into it all the time for numerous reasons.
For me, the longest horns are if someone pulls out in front of me and I have to break heavily (like near-hit type stuff); when cars pull out in front of me but into another lane, I don't care at all. Slowing but not heavy breaking usually constitutes high-beams only.
Shortest horns are for green light sitters (sometimes a short double tap), but I don't wait as long as others (if I can put in the clutch and start accelerating, you're getting honked at).
Let me put it this way, bud:
The things highlighted by your video are, by and large, fairly common occurrences on the road. As such, you should stop thinking of them as "bad driving" and start thinking of them as "normal driving".
Should drivers do those things? No, in most cases not.
Are those drivers breaking the law? Yes, in many cases they are.
But...
Should a driver expect to witness those things? Yes, he absolutely should. They a normal part of everyday life on the road. Get used to it, get over it, get off your high horse, get off the horn.
Plus, I don't see any reason to believe that the skill level of the driving public used to be better than it is now. When I was growing up, 25 years ago, I frequently saw people running stop signs, driving 10 mph down residential streets, failing to signal for turns, not keeping right on the Interstate, all sorts of things. If anything, the frequency with which I've witnessed such things has diminished rather than increased.
Quote from: kphoger on November 09, 2020, 01:31:57 PM
Let me put it this way, bud:
The things highlighted by your video are, by and large, fairly common occurrences on the road. As such, you should stop thinking of them as "bad driving" and start thinking of them as "normal driving".
Should drivers do those things? No, in most cases not.
Are those drivers breaking the law? Yes, in many cases they are.
But...
Should a driver expect to witness those things? Yes, he absolutely should. They a normal part of everyday life on the road. Get used to it, get over it, get off your high horse, get off the horn.
Plus, I don't see any reason to believe that the skill level of the driving public used to be better than it is now. When I was growing up, 25 years ago, I frequently saw people running stop signs, driving 10 mph down residential streets, failing to signal for turns, not keeping right on the Interstate, all sorts of things. If anything, the frequency with which I've witnessed such things has diminished rather than increased.
Yes. Try to have a bit of a thick skin and remember what really matters in life, that is NOT 50-50 chance of saving one red light.
I haven't collected videos, but my impression is that driving skill has declined with the introduction of cell phones. Some people are just unable to put them down and are paying only half of their attention to their driving. Red lights, green lights, pedestrians, a car pulling out from a driveway, all not seen because the driver has only enough attention to spare for what's directly in front of them, if that.
Driving very slowly down a street usually has a reason for it, you're just not aware of it. Looking for an address? Looking for a lost dog? Bicycle in front of them that you can't see?
Quote from: jakeroot on November 07, 2020, 04:27:05 PM
Having been to Chicago, Crash_It's horn etiquette is pretty awful compared to the typical Chicagoan. There are lengths of beeps for different situations. He just seems to lay into it all the time for numerous reasons.
For me, the longest horns are if someone pulls out in front of me and I have to break heavily (like near-hit type stuff); when cars pull out in front of me but into another lane, I don't care at all. Slowing but not heavy breaking usually constitutes high-beams only.
Shortest horns are for green light sitters (sometimes a short double tap), but I don't wait as long as others (if I can put in the clutch and start accelerating, you're getting honked at).
Oh, not really. There are people who will honk at you for not turning on red (where a no turn on red sign is posted) and for stopping at a stop sign
Fresh video just released
https://youtu.be/YDuS_N63EMk
I blame this all on:
-Nanny features in modern vehicles; lane departure alert, automatic braking, bling spot monitoring, etc.
-Federal standards for roof integrity that have necessitated smaller windows and huge A-pillars.
-A lack of police departments willing to enforce motor vehicle laws
-Distracting technology in the cabin. It's a car; I just want to drive it.
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on November 10, 2020, 09:46:36 AM
I blame this all on:
-Nanny features in modern vehicles; lane departure alert, automatic braking, bling spot monitoring, etc.
-Federal standards for roof integrity that have necessitated smaller windows and huge A-pillars.
-A lack of police departments willing to enforce motor vehicle laws
-Distracting technology in the cabin. It's a car; I just want to drive it.
Yes. Including in distracting technology is touch screen controls for audio and other accessories. The touch screen, at least in mine, is really fussy and one hand and my eyes have to be away from driving for 3-4 seconds. It really requires pulling over to change the radio station safely, but the temptation to do it while driving is strong. It's not a very good design, the driver should be able to change the radio by feel alone.
Quote from: kkt on November 10, 2020, 11:45:18 AM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on November 10, 2020, 09:46:36 AM
I blame this all on:
-Nanny features in modern vehicles; lane departure alert, automatic braking, bling spot monitoring, etc.
-Federal standards for roof integrity that have necessitated smaller windows and huge A-pillars.
-A lack of police departments willing to enforce motor vehicle laws
-Distracting technology in the cabin. It's a car; I just want to drive it.
Yes. Including in distracting technology is touch screen controls for audio and other accessories. The touch screen, at least in mine, is really fussy and one hand and my eyes have to be away from driving for 3-4 seconds. It really requires pulling over to change the radio station safely, but the temptation to do it while driving is strong. It's not a very good design, the driver should be able to change the radio by feel alone.
I am pretty sure things are better today than what they were before. I have steering wheel control buttons for the player, and I believe that is a pretty standard feature these days. Comparing that with the old days - my personal best back then was pulling over on an interstate to change a CD....
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on November 10, 2020, 09:46:36 AM
It's a car
Actually, it's an appliance for 97% of drivers.
Quote from: Crash_It on November 10, 2020, 09:08:32 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 07, 2020, 04:27:05 PM
Having been to Chicago, Crash_It's horn etiquette is pretty awful compared to the typical Chicagoan. There are lengths of beeps for different situations. He just seems to lay into it all the time for numerous reasons.
For me, the longest horns are if someone pulls out in front of me and I have to break heavily (like near-hit type stuff); when cars pull out in front of me but into another lane, I don't care at all. Slowing but not heavy breaking usually constitutes high-beams only.
Shortest horns are for green light sitters (sometimes a short double tap), but I don't wait as long as others (if I can put in the clutch and start accelerating, you're getting honked at).
Oh, not really. There are people who will honk at you for not turning on red (where a no turn on red sign is posted) and for stopping at a stop sign
I honk if people don't turn on red (
if that sign does not exist). But very short horns to not get my ass whooped. Sometimes people need a little push.
Honking for stopping at a stop sign is, in the best use of the word, a bit confusing.
Quote from: jakeroot on November 10, 2020, 12:06:29 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on November 10, 2020, 09:08:32 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 07, 2020, 04:27:05 PM
Having been to Chicago, Crash_It's horn etiquette is pretty awful compared to the typical Chicagoan. There are lengths of beeps for different situations. He just seems to lay into it all the time for numerous reasons.
For me, the longest horns are if someone pulls out in front of me and I have to break heavily (like near-hit type stuff); when cars pull out in front of me but into another lane, I don't care at all. Slowing but not heavy breaking usually constitutes high-beams only.
Shortest horns are for green light sitters (sometimes a short double tap), but I don't wait as long as others (if I can put in the clutch and start accelerating, you're getting honked at).
Oh, not really. There are people who will honk at you for not turning on red (where a no turn on red sign is posted) and for stopping at a stop sign
I honk if people don't turn on red. But very short horns to not get my ass whooped. Sometimes people need a little push.
Honking for stopping at a stop sign is, in the best use of the word, a bit confusing.
But do you honk at people who don't turn on red when there's a no turn on red sign? That's what the prior comment mentions.
Quote from: 1995hoo on November 10, 2020, 12:25:23 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 10, 2020, 12:06:29 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on November 10, 2020, 09:08:32 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 07, 2020, 04:27:05 PM
Having been to Chicago, Crash_It's horn etiquette is pretty awful compared to the typical Chicagoan. There are lengths of beeps for different situations. He just seems to lay into it all the time for numerous reasons.
For me, the longest horns are if someone pulls out in front of me and I have to break heavily (like near-hit type stuff); when cars pull out in front of me but into another lane, I don't care at all. Slowing but not heavy breaking usually constitutes high-beams only.
Shortest horns are for green light sitters (sometimes a short double tap), but I don't wait as long as others (if I can put in the clutch and start accelerating, you're getting honked at).
Oh, not really. There are people who will honk at you for not turning on red (where a no turn on red sign is posted) and for stopping at a stop sign
I honk if people don't turn on red. But very short horns to not get my ass whooped. Sometimes people need a little push.
Honking for stopping at a stop sign is, in the best use of the word, a bit confusing.
But do you honk at people who don't turn on red when there's a no turn on red sign? That's what the prior comment mentions.
Oh, shit, no, definitely not.
*post edited. Thanks.
Quote from: Crash_It on November 10, 2020, 09:11:13 AM
Fresh video just released
https://youtu.be/YDuS_N63EMk
I had to stop after 3 minutes.
Of those 3 minutes, the only serious infraction was the guy right around the 2 minute mark swerving or doing something odd.
The first video shows a guy checking his food order as he pulls away from the drive thru window. Crash-it blows the horn for absolutely no reason, which probably echoed right into the drive-thru window, which would have bothered the innocent employees inside.
At 1:52, he honks at someone who was simply trying to pull in from a parallel parking spot.
At 2:52, this Crash-It guy honks at someone who was stopped at the stop line late in the yellow phase, which is A COMPLETELY LEGAL STOP. The guy moves, probably trying to get away from Crash-It. The light turns Red. Crash-it wasn't even at the stop line yet, and completely blew thru the red light.
What a fucking jackass this guy is.
Your horn is for alerting other drivers to a situation they may have missed! They're changing lanes and didn't see you in their blind spot, for instance. Or they were at a stoplight playing Angry Birds and didn't see the light turn green. It's not for expressing your judgement of other drivers.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 10, 2020, 03:12:52 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on November 10, 2020, 09:11:13 AM
Fresh video just released
https://youtu.be/YDuS_N63EMk
I had to stop after 3 minutes.
Of those 3 minutes, the only serious infraction was the guy right around the 2 minute mark swerving or doing something odd.
The first video shows a guy checking his food order as he pulls away from the drive thru window. Crash-it blows the horn for absolutely no reason, which probably echoed right into the drive-thru window, which would have bothered the innocent employees inside.
He was at the cashier window and was braking and slowly pulling forward all without paying attention. That's why I zoomed in so you can see that he was more concerned with what was going on inside of his car. Then after all this... He decides to suddenly pull a right turn from the left turn lane all without even looking. That's a very essential skill to have when driving and that driver completely lacks it
Quote
At 1:52, he honks at someone who was simply trying to pull in from a parallel parking spot.
Drivers pulling from parallel parking spots or driveways have to
YIELD to traffic already on the roadway. Not force their way in.
Quote
At 2:52, this Crash-It guy honks at someone who was stopped at the stop line late in the yellow phase, which is A COMPLETELY LEGAL STOP. The guy moves, probably trying to get away from Crash-It. The light turns Red. Crash-it wasn't even at the stop line yet, and completely blew thru the red light.
What a fucking jackass this guy is.
Did you not see earlier in the clip where that same driver... after tailgating me, jumps in front of me only to later on do that? I was at the stop line and he had plenty of time to move through the intersection. If he hadn't passed me beforehand it would've been a non issue.
You wouldn't be in favor of the "Hypotenuse" by chance would you?
Quote from: Crash_It on November 10, 2020, 06:49:42 PM
Drivers pulling from parallel parking spots or driveways have to YIELD to traffic already on the roadway. Not force their way in.
Yeah, but you don't have to be a genius about it. It was clear he was edging out. Are you one of those drivers who'd rather someone sit for three hours waiting for a legal opportunity to enter before you'd ever consider granting them the right-of-way? He wasn't doing anything wrong other than
maybe trying to enter the road when he didn't have the 'absolute' right of way. But then you respond with a totally over-the-top horn-smash. You know why the other driver honked back? Because you, and other cammers, are the only ones who'd ever
not allow someone to enter the road under these circumstances.
This latest video is yet the latest evidence that cammers are contributing to bad driving habits. Why anyone gives them the time of day, I will never understand.
Quote from: jakeroot on November 10, 2020, 10:48:18 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on November 10, 2020, 06:49:42 PM
Drivers pulling from parallel parking spots or driveways have to YIELD to traffic already on the roadway. Not force their way in.
Yeah, but you don't have to be a genius about it. It was clear he was edging out. Are you one of those drivers who'd rather someone sit for three hours waiting for a legal opportunity to enter before you'd ever consider granting them the right-of-way? He wasn't doing anything wrong other than maybe trying to enter the road when he didn't have the 'absolute' right of way. But then you respond with a totally over-the-top horn-smash. You know why the other driver honked back? Because you, and other cammers, are the only ones who'd ever not allow someone to enter the road under these circumstances.
This latest video is yet the latest evidence that cammers are contributing to bad driving habits. Why anyone gives them the time of day, I will never understand.
In a grand scheme of things, this is about absolute treatment of "right" with zero effort for cooperation.
Of course, there are absolute rights - see declaration of human rights or constitution for the list. Even those are open for debate and limitations (e.g. second ammendment). Last time I checked, though, Right-of-way was not mentioned in either of these documents.
Roads are among those situations where cooperation is a must, but that is a concept which gets internalized with age and experience. What we see here, though, is a perfect illustration of why drivers under 25 and drivers over 75 are the ones with higher insurance premiums (and crash rates).
Quote from: kalvado on November 11, 2020, 07:12:00 AM
Roads are among those situations where cooperation is a must, but that is a concept which gets internalized with age and experience. What we see here, though, is a perfect illustration of why drivers under 25 and drivers over 75 are the ones with higher insurance premiums (and crash rates).
It seems like there is usually plenty of cooperation among drivers nearly everywhere...except it it comes to the zipper or vacate-the-lane-early argument. People tend to be very one-sided with their opinions on that!
Quote from: Crash_It on November 10, 2020, 06:49:42 PM
Quote
At 2:52, this Crash-It guy honks at someone who was stopped at the stop line late in the yellow phase, which is A COMPLETELY LEGAL STOP. The guy moves, probably trying to get away from Crash-It. The light turns Red. Crash-it wasn't even at the stop line yet, and completely blew thru the red light.
What a fucking jackass this guy is.
Did you not see earlier in the clip where that same driver... after tailgating me, jumps in front of me only to later on do that? I was at the stop line and he had plenty of time to move through the intersection. If he hadn't passed me beforehand it would've been a non issue.
Doesn't matter. You ran a red light.
As far as I'm concerned it's also pretty rude to honk at trucks or buses that take a while to turn into the road - much less those that are just finishing their turn as you get up to them. Those things are huge and take a lot of time to get in and up to speed. If you expect them to wait so that nobody like you has to slow down so much as 1 mph, they'll be waiting for hours.
I also didn't know it was illegal to approach a lane line without crossing it? :hmmm:
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 11, 2020, 09:23:47 AM
Quote from: kalvado on November 11, 2020, 07:12:00 AM
Roads are among those situations where cooperation is a must, but that is a concept which gets internalized with age and experience. What we see here, though, is a perfect illustration of why drivers under 25 and drivers over 75 are the ones with higher insurance premiums (and crash rates).
It seems like there is usually plenty of cooperation among drivers nearly everywhere...except it it comes to the zipper or vacate-the-lane-early argument. People tend to be very one-sided with their opinions on that!
Those are the situations where certain people try to take advantage of "cooperation" argument; with "it should be so that I am getting an advantage!" arguments - not unlike our friend laying on a horn. But in general - yes, it only takes a few seconds to let other people do their thing without a rush. Those rarely add up to more than a minute or so, really not a big deal. Unlike long backups, where wait can be significantly longer...
Quote from: jakeroot on November 10, 2020, 10:48:18 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on November 10, 2020, 06:49:42 PM
Drivers pulling from parallel parking spots or driveways have to YIELD to traffic already on the roadway. Not force their way in.
Yeah, but you don't have to be a genius about it. It was clear he was edging out. Are you one of those drivers who'd rather someone sit for three hours waiting for a legal opportunity to enter before you'd ever consider granting them the right-of-way? He wasn't doing anything wrong other than maybe trying to enter the road when he didn't have the 'absolute' right of way. But then you respond with a totally over-the-top horn-smash. You know why the other driver honked back? Because you, and other cammers, are the only ones who'd ever not allow someone to enter the road under these circumstances.
This latest video is yet the latest evidence that cammers are contributing to bad driving habits. Why anyone gives them the time of day, I will never understand.
It wouldn't have taken him hours to yield to everyone. There were only a couple of other cars behind me and there was a traffic signal controlled intersection about 500ft prior to there. Plus, the light was already green. Drivers who count on other drivers to "let them out" tend to be crappy drivers (under the limit) in my experience.
Quote from: kkt on November 10, 2020, 03:59:01 PM
Your horn is for alerting other drivers to a situation they may have missed! They're changing lanes and didn't see you in their blind spot, for instance. Or they were at a stoplight playing Angry Birds and didn't see the light turn green. It's not for expressing your judgement of other drivers.
That's the thing that I don't get about horn usage. Whenever we have a near-miss on the highway, my wife will often say something like "You should have honked at them". My reflexes tend to go 100% toward controlling my own car (braking, checking mirrors to see where I can safely bail if I need to swerve) in order to avoid a collision. The horn doesn't enter into it.
Usually the only time I use the horn is when someone is stopped at a green light or other place they shouldn't be stopping. On those occasions I usually have to press kinda hard on the horn cover because it's stiff from not being used.
A lot of the time that's true. I don't use the horn much. I did violate the rule by honking at someone who completely blew through a red light that I would have been in front of had a not panic stopped, but that doesn't happen too often. Mostly people stopped and don't realize their light has turned green, sometimes pedestrians unloading a vehicle in the parking strip who seem to be absorbed in their work and might not realize I'm in the adjacent lane. There was someone backing up out of a parking spot without looking a while back.
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 11, 2020, 11:46:00 PM
Quote from: kkt on November 10, 2020, 03:59:01 PM
Your horn is for alerting other drivers to a situation they may have missed! They're changing lanes and didn't see you in their blind spot, for instance. Or they were at a stoplight playing Angry Birds and didn't see the light turn green. It's not for expressing your judgement of other drivers.
That's the thing that I don't get about horn usage. Whenever we have a near-miss on the highway, my wife will often say something like "You should have honked at them". My reflexes tend to go 100% toward controlling my own car (braking, checking mirrors to see where I can safely bail if I need to swerve) in order to avoid a collision. The horn doesn't enter into it.
Usually the only time I use the horn is when someone is stopped at a green light or other place they shouldn't be stopping. On those occasions I usually have to press kinda hard on the horn cover because it's stiff from not being used.
Horn may be a usefull thing after the fact, when you're in a safe situation - just to let the other driver know they did a mistake. But that is only that useful, I would say one out of 100 events or so when mistake is really gross - my examples are someone changing lanes into my car (thanks FHWA for demanding those shoulders!) or going wrong way in a roundabout. Horn can help them realize the mistake and - hopefully - avoid it in the future. My frustration can be contained inside of my car as it is of little help to anyone.
Quote from: Crash_It on November 11, 2020, 10:55:43 PM
Drivers who count on other drivers to "let them out" tend to be crappy drivers (under the limit) in my experience.
that's why I usually force my way in front of people like you. people that tend to expect a lot from others tend to be crappy drivers in my experience.
Chicagoans in general tend to use their horns as a third middle finger from my experience. They pretty much honk at you whether you can do anything better or not.
I watch a lot of dash cam videos on various channels, and the "cammer" is usually to blame in at least half of the video clips. Having the dashcam doesn't make you innocent of all wrongdoing. Sure, it may provide evidence and protect you in the event of a possible scam, but it also just as well shows your own errors. It also seems to me that "cammers" like to use the horn a lot, as if that absolves them of all fault, instead of say, using defensive driving methods such as applying the brakes.
I don't know why this is so hard to grasp:
People all over are apparently doing maneuvers that you consider dangerous and unacceptable. These maneuvers affect you so often that you can fill whole videos with your footage. The answer is not that all these people are engaging in aberrant driving behavior, but rather that
most of what they are doing is halfway normal driving behavior. We're not impressed because we see it all the time too. We're not impressed because it's normal.
I don't know why this is so hard to grasp:
You spent post after post defending yourself for passing someone, when your doing so apparently made the other driver mad. Then you later claim about a yellow-light stopper that "if he hadn't passed [you] beforehand it would've been a non issue".
You are exhibiting a double standard. Which is it? Is being passed a good reason to be upset, or isn't it? Oh yeah, that's right, you're never in the wrong, just everybody else.
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 11, 2020, 11:46:00 PM
Whenever we have a near-miss on the highway, my wife will often say something like "You should have honked at them". My reflexes tend to go 100% toward controlling my own car (braking, checking mirrors to see where I can safely bail if I need to swerve) in order to avoid a collision. The horn doesn't enter into it.
Same here. If these situations were really as dangerous as he's making them out to be, then I have to wonder why both his hands weren't on the wheel.
Quote from: kphoger on November 20, 2020, 01:36:51 PM
I don't know why this is so hard to grasp:
People all over are apparently doing maneuvers that you consider dangerous and unacceptable. These maneuvers affect you so often that you can fill whole videos with your footage. The answer is not that all these people are engaging in aberrant driving behavior, but rather that most of what they are doing is halfway normal driving behavior. We're not impressed because we see it all the time too. We're not impressed because it's normal.
I don't know why this is so hard to grasp:
You spent post after post defending yourself for passing someone, when your doing so apparently made the other driver mad. Then you later claim about a yellow-light stopper that "if he hadn't passed [you] beforehand it would've been a non issue". You are exhibiting a double standard. Which is it? Is being passed a good reason to be upset, or isn't it? Oh yeah, that's right, you're never in the wrong, just everybody else.
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 11, 2020, 11:46:00 PM
Whenever we have a near-miss on the highway, my wife will often say something like "You should have honked at them". My reflexes tend to go 100% toward controlling my own car (braking, checking mirrors to see where I can safely bail if I need to swerve) in order to avoid a collision. The horn doesn't enter into it.
Same here. If these situations were really as dangerous as he's making them out to be, then I have to wonder why both his hands weren't on the wheel.
Because, when I pass people I don't do stupid shit. He had no reason to tailgate and pass me as I was already doing 40/35 at the time. 40/35 is alot different than 14/30 :pan:
Quote from: Crash_It on November 21, 2020, 12:49:21 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 20, 2020, 01:36:51 PM
You spent post after post defending yourself for passing someone, when your doing so apparently made the other driver mad. Then you later claim about a yellow-light stopper that "if he hadn't passed [you] beforehand it would've been a non issue". You are exhibiting a double standard. Which is it? Is being passed a good reason to be upset, or isn't it? Oh yeah, that's right, you're never in the wrong, just everybody else.
Because, when I pass people I don't do stupid shit. He had no reason to tailgate and pass me as I was already doing 40/35 at the time. 40/35 is alot different than 14/30
Stopping at a yellow light is not "stupid shit".
:pan:
[emoji added to make you agree with me]
Quote from: kphoger on November 22, 2020, 03:24:25 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on November 21, 2020, 12:49:21 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 20, 2020, 01:36:51 PM
You spent post after post defending yourself for passing someone, when your doing so apparently made the other driver mad. Then you later claim about a yellow-light stopper that "if he hadn't passed [you] beforehand it would've been a non issue". You are exhibiting a double standard. Which is it? Is being passed a good reason to be upset, or isn't it? Oh yeah, that's right, you're never in the wrong, just everybody else.
Because, when I pass people I don't do stupid shit. He had no reason to tailgate and pass me as I was already doing 40/35 at the time. 40/35 is alot different than 14/30
Stopping at a yellow light is not "stupid shit".
:pan: [emoji added to make you agree with me]
It is when it's long enough for at least 3 cars to safely traverse the intersection in a left turn, such as what was the case there.
Quote from: Crash_It on November 22, 2020, 04:20:25 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 22, 2020, 03:24:25 PM
Stopping at a yellow light is not "stupid shit".
:pan: [emoji added to make you agree with me]
It is when it's long enough for at least 3 cars to safely traverse the intersection in a left turn, such as what was the case there.
No it isn't. In fact, in some states it's expressly required by law to stop at a yellow light.
For example, what you are calling "stupid shit" is the legal obligation upon all drivers in nearby Wisconsin.
Quote from: Updated 2013-2014 Wisconsin Statutes
Chapter 346. Rules of the Road
Subchapter 6. Traffic Signs, Signals, and Pavement Markings
346.37 Traffic−control signal legend.
(1) Whenever traffic is controlled by traffic control signals ... the following colors shall be used and shall indicate and apply to operators of vehicles ...
(b) Yellow. Except as provided in par. (e) and s. 346.39 (2), when shown with or following the green, traffic facing a yellow signal shall stop before entering the intersection unless so close to it that a stop may not be made in safety.
I've seen at least 3 cases this past week of people running red lights because they couldn't/wouldn't stop for yellow.
Quote from: kphoger on November 22, 2020, 04:31:35 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on November 22, 2020, 04:20:25 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 22, 2020, 03:24:25 PM
Stopping at a yellow light is not "stupid shit".
:pan: [emoji added to make you agree with me]
It is when it's long enough for at least 3 cars to safely traverse the intersection in a left turn, such as what was the case there.
No it isn't. In fact, in some states it's expressly required by law to stop at a yellow light.
For example, what you are calling "stupid shit" is the legal obligation upon all drivers in nearby Wisconsin.
Quote from: Updated 2013-2014 Wisconsin Statutes
Chapter 346. Rules of the Road
Subchapter 6. Traffic Signs, Signals, and Pavement Markings
346.37 Traffic−control signal legend.
(1) Whenever traffic is controlled by traffic control signals ... the following colors shall be used and shall indicate and apply to operators of vehicles ...
(b) Yellow. Except as provided in par. (e) and s. 346.39 (2), when shown with or following the green, traffic facing a yellow signal shall stop before entering the intersection unless so close to it that a stop may not be made in safety.
That's Wisconsin, in Illinois it is perfectly legal to enter an intersection on a yellow light. I only called it stupid shit because the person passed me in a hurry prior to that.
Quote from: Crash_It on November 25, 2020, 11:13:03 PM
That's Wisconsin, in Illinois it is perfectly legal to enter an intersection on a yellow light. I only called it stupid shit because the person passed me in a hurry prior to that.
The light is turning yellow
FLOOR IT!
Quote from: US71 on November 25, 2020, 10:39:07 PM
I've seen at least 3 cases this past week of people running red lights because they couldn't/wouldn't stop for yellow.
Three in a week? I see three people run the red light just about every time the light changes at some intersections.
Around here, it's more remarkable if nobody goes through right after the light turns red.
Quote from: US71 on November 26, 2020, 11:13:22 AM
Quote from: Crash_It on November 25, 2020, 11:13:03 PM
That's Wisconsin, in Illinois it is perfectly legal to enter an intersection on a yellow light. I only called it stupid shit because the person passed me in a hurry prior to that.
The light is turning yellow FLOOR IT!
Not saying that either, if you are some distance from the intersection you obviously stop but if you are approaching it you still go through it
Quote from: kkt on November 26, 2020, 11:22:26 AM
Quote from: US71 on November 25, 2020, 10:39:07 PM
I've seen at least 3 cases this past week of people running red lights because they couldn't/wouldn't stop for yellow.
Three in a week? I see three people run the red light just about every time the light changes at some intersections.
Well, it's not like I'm getting out much right now :(
Quote from: Crash_It on November 25, 2020, 11:13:03 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 22, 2020, 04:31:35 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on November 22, 2020, 04:20:25 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 22, 2020, 03:24:25 PM
Stopping at a yellow light is not "stupid shit".
:pan: [emoji added to make you agree with me]
It is when it's long enough for at least 3 cars to safely traverse the intersection in a left turn, such as what was the case there.
No it isn't. In fact, in some states it's expressly required by law to stop at a yellow light.
For example, what you are calling "stupid shit" is the legal obligation upon all drivers in nearby Wisconsin.
Quote from: Updated 2013-2014 Wisconsin Statutes
Chapter 346. Rules of the Road
Subchapter 6. Traffic Signs, Signals, and Pavement Markings
346.37 Traffic−control signal legend.
(1) Whenever traffic is controlled by traffic control signals ... the following colors shall be used and shall indicate and apply to operators of vehicles ...
(b) Yellow. Except as provided in par. (e) and s. 346.39 (2), when shown with or following the green, traffic facing a yellow signal shall stop before entering the intersection unless so close to it that a stop may not be made in safety.
That's Wisconsin, in Illinois it is perfectly legal to enter an intersection on a yellow light. I only called it stupid shit because the person passed me in a hurry prior to that.
Yes, as it is in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Indiana; however, the statutes are written much the same. If you can stop when it turns yellow, you must stop the same way unless, of course, you are too close to stop safely (which is why you can enter on yellow).
Quote from: Crash_It on November 25, 2020, 11:13:03 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 22, 2020, 04:31:35 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on November 22, 2020, 04:20:25 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 22, 2020, 03:24:25 PM
Stopping at a yellow light is not "stupid shit".
:pan: [emoji added to make you agree with me]
It is when it's long enough for at least 3 cars to safely traverse the intersection in a left turn, such as what was the case there.
No it isn't. In fact, in some states it's expressly required by law to stop at a yellow light.
For example, what you are calling "stupid shit" is the legal obligation upon all drivers in nearby Wisconsin.
Quote from: Updated 2013-2014 Wisconsin Statutes
Chapter 346. Rules of the Road
Subchapter 6. Traffic Signs, Signals, and Pavement Markings
346.37 Traffic−control signal legend.
(1) Whenever traffic is controlled by traffic control signals ... the following colors shall be used and shall indicate and apply to operators of vehicles ...
(b) Yellow. Except as provided in par. (e) and s. 346.39 (2), when shown with or following the green, traffic facing a yellow signal shall stop before entering the intersection unless so close to it that a stop may not be made in safety.
That's Wisconsin, in Illinois it is perfectly legal to enter an intersection on a yellow light.
And it's perfectly legal to
not enter an intersection on a yellow light.
Quote from: Crash_It on November 25, 2020, 11:13:03 PM
I only called it stupid shit because the person passed me in a hurry prior to that.
Yep.
When you posted video of your passing someone, you said you gain an advantage by making it through a green light but the slower driver caught the red. And, as I said at the time,
if you had been stopped by a red light instead of catching that green, then the other driver would be pissed off at YOU.
My, how the tables have turned!
The difference between what could have happened to you as the faster driver and what actually happened to you as the slower driver ultimately comes down to a matter of seconds: had the light changed from yellow to red yet?
Quote from: kphoger on November 27, 2020, 12:53:34 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on November 25, 2020, 11:13:03 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 22, 2020, 04:31:35 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on November 22, 2020, 04:20:25 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 22, 2020, 03:24:25 PM
Stopping at a yellow light is not "stupid shit".
:pan: [emoji added to make you agree with me]
It is when it's long enough for at least 3 cars to safely traverse the intersection in a left turn, such as what was the case there.
No it isn't. In fact, in some states it's expressly required by law to stop at a yellow light.
For example, what you are calling "stupid shit" is the legal obligation upon all drivers in nearby Wisconsin.
Quote from: Updated 2013-2014 Wisconsin Statutes
Chapter 346. Rules of the Road
Subchapter 6. Traffic Signs, Signals, and Pavement Markings
346.37 Traffic−control signal legend.
(1) Whenever traffic is controlled by traffic control signals ... the following colors shall be used and shall indicate and apply to operators of vehicles ...
(b) Yellow. Except as provided in par. (e) and s. 346.39 (2), when shown with or following the green, traffic facing a yellow signal shall stop before entering the intersection unless so close to it that a stop may not be made in safety.
That's Wisconsin, in Illinois it is perfectly legal to enter an intersection on a yellow light.
And it's perfectly legal to not enter an intersection on a yellow light.
Quote from: Crash_It on November 25, 2020, 11:13:03 PM
I only called it stupid shit because the person passed me in a hurry prior to that.
Yep.
When you posted video of your passing someone, you said you gain an advantage by making it through a green light but the slower driver caught the red. And, as I said at the time, if you had been stopped by a red light instead of catching that green, then the other driver would be pissed off at YOU.
My, how the tables have turned!
The difference between what could have happened to you as the faster driver and what actually happened to you as the slower driver ultimately comes down to a matter of seconds: had the light changed from yellow to red yet?
If I'm passing someone though I'm not going to stop on a yellow light when it's clear that the both of us would've safely made it through the intersection.
Quote from: Crash_It on November 27, 2020, 03:04:41 PM
If I'm passing someone though I'm not going to stop on a yellow light when it's clear that the both of us would've safely made it through the intersection.
Irrelevant information. "I'm not going to..." isn't the criterion for "stupid shit" behavior or not.
For what it's worth (as it's not a midwestern state), there is nothing in WA law that actually encourages stopping on yellow:
Quote from: RCW 46.61.055
Vehicle operators facing a steady circular yellow or yellow arrow signal are thereby warned that the related green movement is being terminated or that a red indication will be exhibited immediately thereafter when vehicular traffic shall not enter the intersection.
Basically, it's an extension of the green light, and it comes with the same meanings.
I could swear Utah law was something to the effect of “stop if possible”... but I just went and looked it up, and it turns out it’s the exact same as it is in WA:
Quote from: Utah Code 41-6a-305
(3) (a) The operator of a vehicle facing a steady circular yellow or yellow arrow signal is warned that the allowable movement related to a green signal is being terminated.
Quote from: jakeroot on November 28, 2020, 01:50:25 AM
For what it's worth (as it's not a midwestern state), there is nothing in WA law that actually encourages stopping on yellow:
Quote from: RCW 46.61.055
Vehicle operators facing a steady circular yellow or yellow arrow signal are thereby warned that the related green movement is being terminated or that a red indication will be exhibited immediately thereafter when vehicular traffic shall not enter the intersection.
Basically, it's an extension of the green light, and it comes with the same meanings.
Quote from: US 89 on November 28, 2020, 02:08:22 AM
I could swear Utah law was something to the effect of "stop if possible" ... but I just went and looked it up, and it turns out it's the exact same as it is in WA:
Quote from: Utah Code 41-6a-305
(3) (a) The operator of a vehicle facing a steady circular yellow or yellow arrow signal is warned that the allowable movement related to a green signal is being terminated.
While it may not explicitly not say don't enter on a yellow, it is a pretty clear warning that you should consider stopping if safe to do so. If you think you can make it and the light turns red, then you're in the wrong. If you enter on the yellow but can't make it across before the opposing direction gets the green, you're in the wrong (obstruction of traffic). So, while you may not be cited for failing to yield on a yellow, there are still violations that could apply.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 28, 2020, 12:13:44 PM
While it may not explicitly not say don't enter on a yellow, it is a pretty clear warning that you should consider stopping if safe to do so. If you think you can make it and the light turns red, then you're in the wrong. If you enter on the yellow but can't make it across before the opposing direction gets the green, you're in the wrong (obstruction of traffic). So, while you may not be cited for failing to yield on a yellow, there are still violations that could apply.
Yellow lights can mean whatever
you want them to mean, but you are under no legal obligation to stop for them. Even if you enter at the very last millisecond, and perpendicular traffic receives a green light, you still did not break the law because you did not enter on red.
Other violations apply under certain circumstances, sure. However, the example you provided about "obstructing traffic" when other traffic receives a green may apply in NJ, but it would not in WA. Here, those obstruction laws would only apply for "blocking the box" scenarios where you physically cannot leave an intersection no matter what.
EDIT: to be clear, I recognize that you are approaching this pragmatically. I do, in fact, stop for yellow lights if I don't think I can
make it in before it turns red. But I don't stop for them simply because they're a yellow light, as you may have to in other states (where entering on yellow
but being in the intersection on red is illegal). This was my only point. There are other points to be made, but the difference in yellow laws (permissive vs restrictive) is an important thing to understand, and was the focus of discussion for this thread (WI is restrictive, IL is permissive).
Illinois law simply defines a yellow light as a warning that it's about to turn red, just like Washington law. Therefore, there it isn't exactly legally defined what you should do. What you should do on a green light is defined, what you should do on a red light is defined, but a yellow light is legal no-man's land in states like Illinois.
Another example of how stupid some drivers can be...this is by far one of the dumbest things I've seen so far in Southern Illinois
https://fb.watch/27CoJTuXkL/
meh
Bro...totally common in South Florida. Get over it and just drive defensively instead of tracking down issues.
After watching someone else jump out of an exploding vehicle which severed in half after puncturing three rows of guardrail, I just think I'm going to be unimpressed with this video.
Quote from: kphoger on December 02, 2020, 01:45:38 PM
meh
You see no issue with this when he....
-Was driving under the posted speed limit in the left lane (which is an issue alone by itself)
-Stops in the left lane outside of the dual turn lanes, further worsening the previous issue that was present
-Possibly attempted to turn outside of the lanes, cutting off the drivers legally in the lanes and potentially compromising oncoming traffic as well (don't know if he eventually done this or not) .
Quote from: Crash_It on December 02, 2020, 02:26:33 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 02, 2020, 01:45:38 PM
meh
You see no issue with this when he....
-Was driving under the posted speed limit in the left lane (which is an issue alone by itself)
-Stops in the left lane outside of the dual turn lanes, further worsening the previous issue that was present
-Possibly attempted to turn outside of the lanes, cutting off the drivers legally in the lanes and potentially compromising oncoming traffic as well (don't know if he eventually done this or not) .
I never said I have no problem with it. It's just a common enough occurrence that it's hardly worth a video. A horn honk this time, perhaps, but forgive me if I'm unimpressed.
Heck, I probably see that same thing at least a few times a year on my afternoon commute home at
this dual left turn intersection (https://goo.gl/maps/QsyFHQLGtUuqCVdc7). In fact, at this one, the straight-ahead movement only has one lane, therefore doing so holds up all straight-ahead traffic or prompts it to go around on the right. And yes, occasionally that driver cuts off the other left-turners. But those other drivers generally just accommodate the maneuver without so much as a horn honk or dirty look. They all just get on with life. I suggest you do the same.
Quote from: kphoger on December 02, 2020, 02:47:50 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on December 02, 2020, 02:26:33 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 02, 2020, 01:45:38 PM
meh
You see no issue with this when he....
-Was driving under the posted speed limit in the left lane (which is an issue alone by itself)
-Stops in the left lane outside of the dual turn lanes, further worsening the previous issue that was present
-Possibly attempted to turn outside of the lanes, cutting off the drivers legally in the lanes and potentially compromising oncoming traffic as well (don't know if he eventually done this or not) .
I never said I have no problem with it. It's just a common enough occurrence that it's hardly worth a video. A horn honk this time, perhaps, but forgive me if I'm unimpressed.
Heck, I probably see that same thing at least a few times a year on my afternoon commute home at this dual left turn intersection (https://goo.gl/maps/QsyFHQLGtUuqCVdc7). In fact, at this one, the straight-ahead movement only has one lane, therefore doing so holds up all straight-ahead traffic or prompts it to go around on the right. And yes, occasionally that driver cuts off the other left-turners. But those other drivers generally just accommodate the maneuver without so much as a horn honk or dirty look. They all just get on with life. I suggest you do the same.
That intersection you showed me is only a one way and doesn't have the potential conflict with oncoming left turn traffic like in my case. I am getting on with life, it's just that if people don't realize why certain moves are wrong (and knowing someone is out there that could potentially expose them)....the more accidents and collisions will result because lets face it...one of the only reason collisions happen is because people don't follow the rules of the road.
Quote from: Crash_It on December 02, 2020, 04:37:33 PM
one of the only reason collisions happen is because people don't follow the rules of the road.
...says a guy who has already gotten ticked off at, honked at, posted videos of, and griped about people breaking laws that don't exist–at least twice now–on this forum.
Quote from: kphoger on December 02, 2020, 04:39:50 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on December 02, 2020, 04:37:33 PM
one of the only reason collisions happen is because people don't follow the rules of the road.
...says a guy who has already gotten ticked off at, honked at, posted videos of, and griped about people breaking laws that don't exist–at least twice now–on this forum.
Illinois law permits drivers to honk their horns to alert other drivers to a situation that they perceive to be dangerous, all of my honks are lawful.
Quote from: Crash_It on December 02, 2020, 04:55:13 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 02, 2020, 04:39:50 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on December 02, 2020, 04:37:33 PM
one of the only reason collisions happen is because people don't follow the rules of the road.
...says a guy who has already gotten ticked off at, honked at, posted videos of, and griped about people breaking laws that don't exist–at least twice now–on this forum.
Illinois law permits drivers to honk their horns to alert other drivers to a situation that they perceive to be dangerous, all of my honks are lawful.
Not at all what I was talking about.
1. Crossing a single solid white line. Legal.
2. Stopping at a yellow light. Legal. (after passing you, which is also legal)
Quote from: kphoger on December 02, 2020, 04:58:51 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on December 02, 2020, 04:55:13 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 02, 2020, 04:39:50 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on December 02, 2020, 04:37:33 PM
one of the only reason collisions happen is because people don't follow the rules of the road.
...says a guy who has already gotten ticked off at, honked at, posted videos of, and griped about people breaking laws that don't exist–at least twice now–on this forum.
Illinois law permits drivers to honk their horns to alert other drivers to a situation that they perceive to be dangerous, all of my honks are lawful.
Not at all what I was talking about.
1. Crossing a single solid white line. Legal.
2. Stopping at a yellow light. Legal. (after passing you, which is also legal)
Not if it was for the purpose of exceeding the limit, which isn't legal.
Quote from: Crash_It on December 02, 2020, 01:43:29 PM
Another example of how stupid some drivers can be...this is by far one of the dumbest things I've seen so far in Southern Illinois
Did he do the right thing? No. Would I maybe have honked at him? Sure. But is it worth making a video to put online?
No.
As I and other posters have mentioned before, I've seen far worse.
Quote from: Crash_It on December 02, 2020, 02:26:33 PM
You see no issue with this when he....
-Was driving under the posted speed limit in the left lane (which is an issue alone by itself)
It is not illegal to drive under the speed limit in the left lane. In fact, at night or in inclement weather, driving the posted speed may be too fast for conditions...which
is illegal.
Quote from: US 89 on December 02, 2020, 06:28:26 PM
It is not illegal to drive under the speed limit in the left lane. In fact, at night or in inclement weather, driving the posted speed may be too fast for conditions...which is illegal.
It's strongly discouraged to be going slower than right-lane traffic if you're in the left lane.
I remember a post by jeffandnicole about how one single driver going 55 on a freeway where everyone else goes 65 can cause congestion for the entire rush hour, but I don't think I'll be able to find it.
Re: driving over the speed limit being illegal, a few states in the Northwest allow going over by up to 5 in order to pass, and every state
should allow it if it's the only way to avoid a crash. (I'm not sure if every state actually does say that, though.)
Quote from: 1 on December 02, 2020, 06:31:17 PM
Quote from: US 89 on December 02, 2020, 06:28:26 PM
It is not illegal to drive under the speed limit in the left lane. In fact, at night or in inclement weather, driving the posted speed may be too fast for conditions...which is illegal.
It's strongly discouraged to be going slower than right-lane traffic if you're in the left lane.
I remember a post by jeffandnicole about how one single driver going 55 on a freeway where everyone else goes 65 can cause congestion for the entire rush hour, but I don't think I'll be able to find it.
Well in that case you might get cited for impeding traffic, which is a separate thing.
Quote from: 1 on December 02, 2020, 06:31:17 PM
Quote from: US 89 on December 02, 2020, 06:28:26 PM
It is not illegal to drive under the speed limit in the left lane. In fact, at night or in inclement weather, driving the posted speed may be too fast for conditions...which is illegal.
It's strongly discouraged to be going slower than right-lane traffic if you're in the left lane.
I remember a post by jeffandnicole about how one single driver going 55 on a freeway where everyone else goes 65 can cause congestion for the entire rush hour, but I don't think I'll be able to find it.
Re: driving over the speed limit being illegal, a few states in the Northwest allow going over by up to 5 in order to pass, and every state should allow it if it's the only way to avoid a crash. (I'm not sure if every state actually does say that, though.)
But his latest video appears to be on a surface street or arterial, given the undivided roadway and the traffic light. "Keep right except to pass" is generally understood not to apply in that sort of situation, only on the open highway. It's perfectly understandable why, too, such as (for example) if someone's looking for a particular address he knows is on the left but doesn't know exactly where. There is no rule that says the "speed limit" is the speed at which you must travel.
Quote from: Crash_It on December 02, 2020, 06:20:06 PM
Not if it was for the purpose of exceeding the limit, which isn't legal.
Speeding is illegal period (except as noted in states which expressly permit it while passing, of which I believe Illinois is not one). However, speeding does not automatically make passing illegal. It is legal to pass in a passing zone, no matter what speed you're driving, unless it counts as reckless driving.
Quote from: Crash_It on December 02, 2020, 02:26:33 PM
-Was driving under the posted speed limit in the left lane (which is an issue alone by itself)
Driving under the posted speed limit is legally required when driving in the left lane, just as it is when driving in the right lane. Also, Illinois law requires slower drivers to keep right only on Interstates or other "fully access controlled freeways".
The more you gripe, the more you reveal that you don't actually understand traffic laws as well as you think you do.
Quote from: US 89 on December 02, 2020, 06:28:26 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on December 02, 2020, 01:43:29 PM
Another example of how stupid some drivers can be...this is by far one of the dumbest things I've seen so far in Southern Illinois
Did he do the right thing? No. Would I maybe have honked at him? Sure. But is it worth making a video to put online? No.
As I and other posters have mentioned before, I've seen far worse.
Quote from: Crash_It on December 02, 2020, 02:26:33 PM
You see no issue with this when he....
-Was driving under the posted speed limit in the left lane (which is an issue alone by itself)
It is not illegal to drive under the speed limit in the left lane. In fact, at night or in inclement weather, driving the posted speed may be too fast for conditions...which is illegal.
(625 ILCS 5/11‑606) (from Ch. 95 1/2, par. 11‑606)
Sec. 11‑606. Minimum speed regulation.
(a) No person shall drive a motor vehicle at such a slow speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic except when reduced speed is necessary for safe operation of his vehicle or in compliance with law.
11-701. Drive on right side of roadway--Exceptions.
(a) Upon all roadways of sufficient width a vehicle shall be driven upon the right half of the roadway, except as follows:
(b) Upon a 2 lane roadway, providing for 2-way movement of traffic, a vehicle shall be driven in the right-hand lane available for traffic, or as close as practicable to the right hand curb or edge of the roadway, except when overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction or when preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.
Quote from: Crash_It on December 02, 2020, 07:53:38 PM
Quote from: US 89 on December 02, 2020, 06:28:26 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on December 02, 2020, 01:43:29 PM
Another example of how stupid some drivers can be...this is by far one of the dumbest things I've seen so far in Southern Illinois
Did he do the right thing? No. Would I maybe have honked at him? Sure. But is it worth making a video to put online? No.
As I and other posters have mentioned before, I've seen far worse.
Quote from: Crash_It on December 02, 2020, 02:26:33 PM
You see no issue with this when he....
-Was driving under the posted speed limit in the left lane (which is an issue alone by itself)
It is not illegal to drive under the speed limit in the left lane. In fact, at night or in inclement weather, driving the posted speed may be too fast for conditions...which is illegal.
(625 ILCS 5/11‑606) (from Ch. 95 1/2, par. 11‑606)
Sec. 11‑606. Minimum speed regulation.
(a) No person shall drive a motor vehicle at such a slow speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic except when reduced speed is necessary for safe operation of his vehicle or in compliance with law.
11-701. Drive on right side of roadway--Exceptions.
(a) Upon all roadways of sufficient width a vehicle shall be driven upon the right half of the roadway, except as follows:
(b) Upon a 2 lane roadway, providing for 2-way movement of traffic, a vehicle shall be driven in the right-hand lane available for traffic, or as close as practicable to the right hand curb or edge of the roadway, except when overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction or when preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.
You realize that "right half of the roadway" means the right side of the entire road consisting of two lanes, not the right of two lanes when the road has 4(2+2)? In other words, it is "don't drive head-on into oncoming traffic", not "keep right"
Quote from: kalvado on December 02, 2020, 08:12:13 PM
You realize that "right half of the roadway" means the right side of the entire road consisting of two lanes, not the right of two lanes when the road has 4(2+2)? In other words, it is "don't drive head-on into oncoming traffic", not "keep right"
I honestly suspect he thought that code meant "drive on the right
fourth of the roadway. :pan:
In summary, Illinois law states that...
1: On any undivided road, the general rule is that traffic shall not drive on the left half, except to pass or in the event of extenuating circumstances (5/11-701(a)1,2).
2: The above does not apply on one-way roadways (5/11-701(a)4). By the definition of "roadway" found in 5/1-179, each half of a divided highway counts as an individual "roadway", and therefore the general keep-right rule does not apply to lane use on a divided highway.
3: On a two-lane, two-way roadway, it is also permitted to drive on the left half when preparing to turn left (5/11-701(c)).
4: On a freeway (Interstate or other fully controlled-access highway), non-police traffic shall not use the left lane, except to pass, or if traffic is sufficiently heavy to make it impractical not to, or if preparing to exit on the left, or in the event of extenuating circumstances (5/11-701(d,e)). This does not prohibit driving in the middle lanes of a freeway with three or more lanes in each direction–just the leftmost lane.
5: Driving faster than the speed limit is prohibited (5/11-601(b)). This means that it is
required by law to drive slower than the speed limit. (OK, so it's also technically allowed to drive at
exactly the speed limit.)
6: Driving slowly enough to impede or block traffic is prohibited, except as a matter of safety or direction by law enforcement (5/11-606(a)). This applies to all lanes of traffic.
So yeah, it is legally required to driver slower than the speed limit, no matter what lane you're in. And left lane use is only restricted on freeways.
Quote from: Crash_It on December 02, 2020, 04:37:33 PM
lets face it...one of the only reason collisions happen is because people don't follow the rules of the road.
Another reason collisions happen is that people expect other drivers to abide by rules of the road that don't even exist as rules.
Another reason collisions happen is that people drive in such a way that does not allow for other drivers to deviate from the law or from generally accepted practice.
Another reason collisions happen is that people incite road rage by blaring their horn at the slightest error.
Another reason collisions happen is that people are fallible human beings who occasionally make poor choices, and other drivers do not include that fact in their worldview when driving.
Quote from: kalvado on December 02, 2020, 08:12:13 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on December 02, 2020, 07:53:38 PM
Quote from: US 89 on December 02, 2020, 06:28:26 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on December 02, 2020, 01:43:29 PM
Another example of how stupid some drivers can be...this is by far one of the dumbest things I've seen so far in Southern Illinois
Did he do the right thing? No. Would I maybe have honked at him? Sure. But is it worth making a video to put online? No.
As I and other posters have mentioned before, I've seen far worse.
Quote from: Crash_It on December 02, 2020, 02:26:33 PM
You see no issue with this when he....
-Was driving under the posted speed limit in the left lane (which is an issue alone by itself)
It is not illegal to drive under the speed limit in the left lane. In fact, at night or in inclement weather, driving the posted speed may be too fast for conditions...which is illegal.
(625 ILCS 5/11‑606) (from Ch. 95 1/2, par. 11‑606)
Sec. 11‑606. Minimum speed regulation.
(a) No person shall drive a motor vehicle at such a slow speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic except when reduced speed is necessary for safe operation of his vehicle or in compliance with law.
11-701. Drive on right side of roadway--Exceptions.
(a) Upon all roadways of sufficient width a vehicle shall be driven upon the right half of the roadway, except as follows:
(b) Upon a 2 lane roadway, providing for 2-way movement of traffic, a vehicle shall be driven in the right-hand lane available for traffic, or as close as practicable to the right hand curb or edge of the roadway, except when overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction or when preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.
You realize that "right half of the roadway" means the right side of the entire road consisting of two lanes, not the right of two lanes when the road has 4(2+2)? In other words, it is "don't drive head-on into oncoming traffic", not "keep right"
it means 2 lanes in each of the 2 ways, hence the words "preparing for"
Quote from: Crash_It on December 03, 2020, 10:23:50 AM
it means 2 lanes in each of the 2 ways, hence the words "preparing for"
No it doesn't. It means a road that has two lanes and which accommodates two-way traffic. It is legal to drive on the left half in order to slow down for a left turn, so long as there's no oncoming traffic or visibility issues. In fact, doing so is very common practice in rural areas.
Quote from: kphoger on December 03, 2020, 10:55:57 AM
... It is legal to drive on the left half in order to slow down for a left turn, so long as there's no oncoming traffic or visibility issues. In fact, doing so is very common practice in rural areas.
This also has a very important safety advantage that often goes unsung: it prevents people from pulling out to pass you while you're preparing to turn left.
Quote from: Crash_It on December 02, 2020, 01:43:29 PM
https://fb.watch/27CoJTuXkL/
Quote from: Crash_It on December 02, 2020, 02:26:33 PM
-Was driving under the posted speed limit in the left lane (which is an issue alone by itself)
I think I'm going to have to spell this out even more precisely.
Previously, I have already demonstrated that his driving below the speed limit was required by law. It is the legal requirment upon every driver. Perhaps he was driving slowly enough to have been impeding traffic, but that would be a judgment call on the part of a police officer–not one that can be satisfactorily made by watching a video on Facebook.
Moving on to the other half of your argument, then, I have bolded the pertinent phrases below in order to show that his being in the left lane has no legal bearing on the matter whatsoever.
Quote from: 625 ILCS 5/1-179
Roadway.
That portion of a highway improved, designed or ordinarily used for vehicular travel, exclusive of the berm or shoulder. In the event a highway includes two or more separate roadways the term "roadway" as used herein shall refer to any such roadway separately but not to all such roadways collectively.
Quote from: 625 ILCS 5/1-136
Laned roadway.
A roadway which is divided into two or more clearly marked lanes for vehicular traffic.
Quote from: 625 ILCS 5/1-126
Highway.
The entire width between the boundary lines of every way publicly maintained when any part thereof is open to the use of the public for purposes of vehicular travel or located on public school property.
Quote from: 625 ILCS 5/1-112
Controlled Access Highway.
Every highway, street or roadway in respect to which owners or occupants of abutting lands and other persons have no legal right of access to or from the same except at such points only and in such manner as may be determined by the public authority having jurisdiction over such highway, street or roadway.
Quote from: 625 ILCS 5/1-123.5
Freeway.
A highway or street especially designed for through traffic and to, from, or over which owners of or persons having an interest in abutting land or other persons have no right or easement or only a limited right or easement of access, crossing, light, air, or view by reason of the fact that the property abuts upon the highway or street or for any other reason.
Quote from: 625 ILCS 5/1-207
Traffic.
Pedestrians, ridden or herded animals, vehicles, streetcars and other conveyances either singly or together while using any highway for purposes of travel.
Quote from: 625 ILCS 5/11-701
Drive on right side of roadway - exceptions.
(b) Upon a 2 lane roadway, providing for 2-way movement of traffic, a vehicle shall be driven in the right-hand lane available for traffic, or as close as practicable to the right hand curb or edge of the roadway, except when overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction or when preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.
(c) Upon any roadway having 4 or more lanes for moving traffic and providing for 2-way movement of traffic, no vehicle shall be driven to the left of the center line of the roadway, except when authorized by official traffic-control devices designating certain lanes to the left side of the center of the roadway for use by traffic not otherwise permitted to use such lanes, or except as permitted under Subsection (a) 2. However, this Subsection shall not be construed as prohibiting the crossing of the center line in making a left turn into or from an alley, private road or driveway.
(d) Upon an Interstate highway or fully access controlled freeway, a vehicle may not be driven in the left lane, except when overtaking and passing another vehicle.
So here's the evaluation:
5/11-701(b) specifically applies on any "2 lane roadway".
By definition, a "roadway" is the entire width from edge line to edge line, not counting any shoulder(s).
By definition, it is a "laned roadway" if it has clearly marked lanes for vehicular traffic.
The definition of "traffic" is not restricted to any one direction of movement, but refers in general to those conveyances using the roadway for travel.
Between edge line and edge line (i.e., within the roadway), the road you were on in that video
does provide for the two-way movement of vehicular traffic. However, it has
more than two lanes clearly marked for said traffic. Therefore, 5/11-701(b)
does not apply on that road.
Between edge line and edge line (i.e., within the roadway), the road you were on in that video has
four or more lanes clearly marked for traffic. Therefore, 5/11-701(c)
does apply on that road. The requirement set forth therein is that no vehicle may be driven to the left of the center line of the roadway. Remember the definition of "roadway"? It means the entire width from edge line to edge line. This law prohibits drivers from driving on the
wrong side of a multi-lane road. It
does not prohibit driving in any particular lane on the
correct side of the road.
The road you were on in that video allows ample "legal right of access" and "crossing" at various and sundry points along its length. I could clearly see driveways, intersections, and the like. Therefore, 625 ILCS 5/11-701(d)
does not apply on that road.
^^^^
One addition to what kphoger said: If 5/11-701(b) and (c) prohibited driving in the left lane except for passing, then 5/11-701(d) would be superfluous. It's a well-established canon of statutory construction that provisions are not deemed to be superfluous, and are to be construed together with other provisions whenever possible, unless doing so would plainly produce an absurd result. Here, reading the provisions together in the way kphoger has done, and as further amplified by my comment, does not produce an absurd result.
We dream about being able to go 55 on the freeway during rush hour.
When it comes to slow driving, he's had a habit of showing a very specific portion of the incident...usually the moment he passes and/or honks his horn. Even though he could show a minute or so...or even 30 seconds...of the supposedly slow driver driving slowly, he never does, so we're left with his word vs actual video, which is obviously has.
When he approached the McDonald's drive thru and honked because the guy was pulling away looking at his order, driving slowly for all of about 1.5 seconds, I'd surmise that there isn't any significant slow driving going on on the roadways either.
In general, I've gotten less touchy about people's driving this year, because a lot of people are distracted by increased troubles caused by these trying times. People are generally more on-edge. Though there's never an excuse for behavior that might get somebody seriously injured or killed.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 07, 2020, 08:34:34 AM
When it comes to slow driving, he's had a habit of showing a very specific portion of the incident...usually the moment he passes and/or honks his horn. Even though he could show a minute or so...or even 30 seconds...of the supposedly slow driver driving slowly, he never does, so we're left with his word vs actual video, which is obviously has.
When he approached the McDonald's drive thru and honked because the guy was pulling away looking at his order, driving slowly for all of about 1.5 seconds, I'd surmise that there isn't any significant slow driving going on on the roadways either.
In his defense, these videos are usually meant to be compilations where each clip is only about 60 seconds at most.
But then, in our defense, not having the whole clip makes it very hard to discern who was truly to blame, and can easily disguise whatever blame the driver may have had.
Quote from: jakeroot on December 08, 2020, 03:25:43 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 07, 2020, 08:34:34 AM
When it comes to slow driving, he's had a habit of showing a very specific portion of the incident...usually the moment he passes and/or honks his horn. Even though he could show a minute or so...or even 30 seconds...of the supposedly slow driver driving slowly, he never does, so we're left with his word vs actual video, which is obviously has.
When he approached the McDonald's drive thru and honked because the guy was pulling away looking at his order, driving slowly for all of about 1.5 seconds, I'd surmise that there isn't any significant slow driving going on on the roadways either.
In his defense, these videos are usually meant to be compilations where each clip is only about 60 seconds at most.
But then, in our defense, not having the whole clip makes it very hard to discern who was truly to blame, and can easily disguise whatever blame the driver may have had.
He's had short clips when someone runs a red light or the issue is obvious. He's had longer clips when he wants to show the entire story of other drivers doing something stupid.
But in instances where he claims the other driver has driven slowly for a while, or he's hit numerous red lights, he *claims* the other driver is doing something stupid. He doesn't show it, but rather narrates his version. He could easily double or triple speed the video to show him constantly getting stuck at red lights or the slowness of the other driver without taking too much time on his videos. He doesn't.
Remember the video where he was passed by the other driver, and then he drives thru the red light behind that other driver? That he showed nearly everything to back up his side of the story.
It's an obvious omission when he's claiming he's being stopped at numerous red lights even though he would have video to prove it, leading to the fact he probably really isn't getting stopped at red lights due to slow driving.