Engineers will tell you that winter is a killer for highways. Freeze thaw cycles leave potholes in asphalt and road salt corrodes the steel rebar on bridges.
Since Florida has no winters to speak of, do their roads last much longer?
The thing is, up north, pavement mixes are designed for freeze-thaw, so a single freeze/thaw cycle down South can do as much or more damage than an entire season up North. Some parts of Florida can freeze but it's usually not a deep enough freeze to damage pavement, so yes, their pavement will last a lot longer and many of their county roads still have secondary state pavement from the 70s-80s. Bridges, however, will be worn down by the flow of traffic and so their lifespans are not significantly longer (assuming proper maintenance in all climates).
I wouldn't say any longer than other warm weather climates. Arizona had some really long lasting asphalt road surfaces in the Sonoran Desert until ADOT starting messing around with that quiet rubberized asphalt mix on the Phoenix areas freeways. The other desert states were also similar at low elevations where the climate was stable, snow free and mostly dry.
Something I have noticed with roads in Florida is that the asphalt aggregate is really firm compared to other states. I've never been quite sure if that is due to the local materials used or if there is some sort of methodology in terms of draining water faster at play.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 19, 2021, 06:32:42 PM
I wouldn't say any longer than other warm weather climates. Arizona had some really long lasting asphalt road surfaces in the Sonoran Desert until ADOT starting messing around with that quiet rubberized asphalt mix on the Phoenix areas freeways. The other desert states were also similar at low elevations where the climate was stable, snow free and mostly dry.
Something I have noticed with roads in Florida is that the asphalt aggregate is really firm compared to other states. I've never been quite sure if that is due to the local materials used or if there is some sort of methodology in terms of draining water faster at play.
But in terms of warmth, Florida is in a league of its own. Arizona does have parts that get cold. It will
snow in the grand canyon.
Quote from: kernals12 on August 19, 2021, 07:56:18 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 19, 2021, 06:32:42 PM
I wouldn't say any longer than other warm weather climates. Arizona had some really long lasting asphalt road surfaces in the Sonoran Desert until ADOT starting messing around with that quiet rubberized asphalt mix on the Phoenix areas freeways. The other desert states were also similar at low elevations where the climate was stable, snow free and mostly dry.
Something I have noticed with roads in Florida is that the asphalt aggregate is really firm compared to other states. I've never been quite sure if that is due to the local materials used or if there is some sort of methodology in terms of draining water faster at play.
But in terms of warmth, Florida is in a league of its own. Arizona does have parts that get cold. It will snow in the Grand Canyon.
Hence why I specified the Sonoran Desert regions of Arizona. The Mojave doesn't see much weather variance either but there was definitely large enough weather variations that caused road wear in the Chihuahuan Desert. The roughest spots in terms of road wear in Arizona were along the Mogollon Rim where the snow and rains accumulated at the edge of the Colorado Plateau.
Similarly low elevation desert regions in Nevada and California don't see a huge degree of wear. It's like Alps said, the more weather variation (namely freezing over frequently) the more roadways tend to be damaged.
Quote from: kernals12 on August 19, 2021, 07:56:18 PM
But in terms of warmth, Florida is in a league of its own. Arizona does have parts that get cold. It will snow in the grand canyon.
That is irrelevant. If you're averaging the entire state, maybe... but Max was specifically referring to the Sonoran Desert and other low-elevation parts of the desert southwest, where snow is very rare to nonexistent and even freezes are notable events that don't happen every year. The Grand Canyon rim and Flagstaff areas are around 7000 feet elevation.
Quote from: Alps on August 19, 2021, 06:23:29 PM
The thing is, up north, pavement mixes are designed for freeze-thaw, so a single freeze/thaw cycle down South can do as much or more damage than an entire season up North. Some parts of Florida can freeze but it's usually not a deep enough freeze to damage pavement, so yes, their pavement will last a lot longer and many of their county roads still have secondary state pavement from the 70s-80s. Bridges, however, will be worn down by the flow of traffic and so their lifespans are not significantly longer (assuming proper maintenance in all climates).
Dumb question: What is secondary state pavement?
I read somewhere a few years ago where one year they ranked the best and worst roads in all 50 states. In it, Florida had the best, Tennessee had the second best, and Georgia the third best. And if memory serves me right, I think Pennsylvania had the worst and Ohio the second worst. I forgot where I read this though.
^^^
That stuff seemed great until the desert heat started to converting into rubbery chunks that flew off the road surface.
Quote from: Daniel Fiddler on August 20, 2021, 02:11:28 PM
I read somewhere a few years ago where one year they ranked the best and worst roads in all 50 states. In it, Florida had the best, Tennessee had the second best, and Georgia the third best. And if memory serves me right, I think Pennsylvania had the worst and Ohio the second worst. I forgot where I read this though.
I can think of numerous metrics Florida really lacks in that would soundly knock it out of contention for "best" road network:
- The surface road networks in major cities tend to be very poorly designed. Example; trying getting anywhere in Orlando on a surface road often is frustrating and requires odd jogs through neighborhoods or around lakes.
- There is a huge number of timed lights on surface highways which tend to unnecessarily create backups and long wait times.
- The shoulder widths on numerous conventional highways tend to run on the soft side or don't exist.
- Turning lanes tend to very short and inadequate to filter traffic.
- Speed limits are often too slow or posted in at a lower limit in places they aren't needed. Example; major intersections on US 19 north of Crystal River don't need to drop from 65 MPH, to 55 MPH, to 45 MPH and back given the rural setting.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 20, 2021, 02:40:20 PM
^^^
That stuff seemed great until the desert heat started to converting into rubbery chunks that flew off the road surface.
Quote from: Daniel Fiddler on August 20, 2021, 02:11:28 PM
I read somewhere a few years ago where one year they ranked the best and worst roads in all 50 states. In it, Florida had the best, Tennessee had the second best, and Georgia the third best. And if memory serves me right, I think Pennsylvania had the worst and Ohio the second worst. I forgot where I read this though.
I can think of numerous metrics Florida really lacks in that would soundly knock it out of contention for "best" road network:
- The surface road networks in major cities tend to be very poorly designed. Example; trying getting anywhere in Orlando on a surface road often is frustrating and requires odd jogs through neighborhoods or around lakes.
- There is a huge number of timed lights on surface highways which tend to unnecessarily create backups and long wait times.
- The shoulder widths on numerous conventional highways tend to run on the soft side or don't exist.
- Turning lanes tend to very short and inadequate to filter traffic.
- Speed limits are often too slow or posted in at a lower limit in places they aren't needed. Example; major intersections on US 19 north of Crystal River don't need to drop from 65 MPH, to 55 MPH, to 45 MPH and back given the rural setting.
I think they were considering pavement quality and how states maintained their roads only. Although I can agree with you. They should have included more criteria.
Quote from: kernals12 on August 20, 2021, 07:30:11 AM
Quote from: Alps on August 19, 2021, 06:23:29 PM
The thing is, up north, pavement mixes are designed for freeze-thaw, so a single freeze/thaw cycle down South can do as much or more damage than an entire season up North. Some parts of Florida can freeze but it's usually not a deep enough freeze to damage pavement, so yes, their pavement will last a lot longer and many of their county roads still have secondary state pavement from the 70s-80s. Bridges, however, will be worn down by the flow of traffic and so their lifespans are not significantly longer (assuming proper maintenance in all climates).
Dumb question: What is secondary state pavement?
Pavement on secondary roads - not maintained or traveled as often
Quote from: Alps on August 20, 2021, 10:48:35 PM
Quote from: kernals12 on August 20, 2021, 07:30:11 AM
Quote from: Alps on August 19, 2021, 06:23:29 PM
The thing is, up north, pavement mixes are designed for freeze-thaw, so a single freeze/thaw cycle down South can do as much or more damage than an entire season up North. Some parts of Florida can freeze but it's usually not a deep enough freeze to damage pavement, so yes, their pavement will last a lot longer and many of their county roads still have secondary state pavement from the 70s-80s. Bridges, however, will be worn down by the flow of traffic and so their lifespans are not significantly longer (assuming proper maintenance in all climates).
Dumb question: What is secondary state pavement?
Pavement on secondary roads - not maintained or traveled as often
And it used to be an actual classification of State Road. FDOT has gotten rid of a lot of what was Secondary State Road mileage but there is still a fair bit to be found. Most of the examples I gave above are from roadways that would have been once considered Secondary State Roads. :nod:
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 19, 2021, 06:32:42 PM
I wouldn't say any longer than other warm weather climates. Arizona had some really long lasting asphalt road surfaces in the Sonoran Desert until ADOT starting messing around with that quiet rubberized asphalt mix on the Phoenix areas freeways. The other desert states were also similar at low elevations where the climate was stable, snow free and mostly dry.
Something I have noticed with roads in Florida is that the asphalt aggregate is really firm compared to other states. I've never been quite sure if that is due to the local materials used or if there is some sort of methodology in terms of draining water faster at play.
I know why. Florida goes all out with top notch quality with their highways. They spend $13-14 billion a year on them and it shows.
My guess is that they do good grading, and suffiicient crowning of the roadways so they shed water well.
When you hear the loud asphalt that's very porous in other regions it's because they have to give water somewhere to go, in the the airy pavement because water doesn't shed sufficiently fast enough to prevent hydroplaning.
Atlanta has to use that very porous mix and it gegrades quickly and only lasts about half as long as more solid mixtures. It's very loud too.
That's my guess about what you're speaking of.
Quote from: architect77 on August 22, 2021, 12:12:19 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 19, 2021, 06:32:42 PM
I wouldn't say any longer than other warm weather climates. Arizona had some really long lasting asphalt road surfaces in the Sonoran Desert until ADOT starting messing around with that quiet rubberized asphalt mix on the Phoenix areas freeways. The other desert states were also similar at low elevations where the climate was stable, snow free and mostly dry.
Something I have noticed with roads in Florida is that the asphalt aggregate is really firm compared to other states. I've never been quite sure if that is due to the local materials used or if there is some sort of methodology in terms of draining water faster at play.
I know why. Florida goes all out with top notch quality with their highways. They spend $13-14 billion a year on them and it shows.
My guess is that they do good grading, and suffiicient crowning of the roadways so they shed water well.
When you hear the loud asphalt that's very porous in other regions it's because they have to give water somewhere to go, in the the airy pavement because water doesn't shed sufficiently fast enough to prevent hydroplaning.
Atlanta has to use that very porous mix and it gegrades quickly and only lasts about half as long as more solid mixtures. It's very loud too.
That's my guess about what you're speaking of.
Even local roads and stuff in private neighborhoods are like that also. When I lived in Florida it was the only state I ever found running on concrete to be softer on my joints. Yes, I always assumed it had something to do with draining water.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 22, 2021, 12:22:19 AM
Quote from: architect77 on August 22, 2021, 12:12:19 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 19, 2021, 06:32:42 PM
I wouldn't say any longer than other warm weather climates. Arizona had some really long lasting asphalt road surfaces in the Sonoran Desert until ADOT starting messing around with that quiet rubberized asphalt mix on the Phoenix areas freeways. The other desert states were also similar at low elevations where the climate was stable, snow free and mostly dry.
Something I have noticed with roads in Florida is that the asphalt aggregate is really firm compared to other states. I've never been quite sure if that is due to the local materials used or if there is some sort of methodology in terms of draining water faster at play.
I know why. Florida goes all out with top notch quality with their highways. They spend $13-14 billion a year on them and it shows.
My guess is that they do good grading, and suffiicient crowning of the roadways so they shed water well.
When you hear the loud asphalt that's very porous in other regions it's because they have to give water somewhere to go, in the the airy pavement because water doesn't shed sufficiently fast enough to prevent hydroplaning.
Atlanta has to use that very porous mix and it gegrades quickly and only lasts about half as long as more solid mixtures. It's very loud too.
That's my guess about what you're speaking of.
Even local roads and stuff in private neighborhoods are like that also. When I lived in Florida it was the only state I ever found running on concrete to be softer on my joints. Yes, I always assumed it had something to do with draining water.
Well, if you can afford it, concrete will last and be maintenance-free for decades.
i take that back, after reading NCDOT's 2016 MOPAR report, I learned that they are always applying sealants to bridges and concrete pavement which extends its service life.
I wouldn't have ever known that was part of the upkeep had I not read that report.
Quote from: architect77 on August 23, 2021, 03:14:02 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 22, 2021, 12:22:19 AM
Quote from: architect77 on August 22, 2021, 12:12:19 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 19, 2021, 06:32:42 PM
I wouldn't say any longer than other warm weather climates. Arizona had some really long lasting asphalt road surfaces in the Sonoran Desert until ADOT starting messing around with that quiet rubberized asphalt mix on the Phoenix areas freeways. The other desert states were also similar at low elevations where the climate was stable, snow free and mostly dry.
Something I have noticed with roads in Florida is that the asphalt aggregate is really firm compared to other states. I've never been quite sure if that is due to the local materials used or if there is some sort of methodology in terms of draining water faster at play.
I know why. Florida goes all out with top notch quality with their highways. They spend $13-14 billion a year on them and it shows.
My guess is that they do good grading, and suffiicient crowning of the roadways so they shed water well.
When you hear the loud asphalt that's very porous in other regions it's because they have to give water somewhere to go, in the the airy pavement because water doesn't shed sufficiently fast enough to prevent hydroplaning.
Atlanta has to use that very porous mix and it gegrades quickly and only lasts about half as long as more solid mixtures. It's very loud too.
That's my guess about what you're speaking of.
Even local roads and stuff in private neighborhoods are like that also. When I lived in Florida it was the only state I ever found running on concrete to be softer on my joints. Yes, I always assumed it had something to do with draining water.
Well, if you can afford it, concrete will last and be maintenance-free for decades.
i take that back, after reading NCDOT's 2016 MOPAR report, I learned that they are always applying sealants to bridges and concrete pavement which extends its service life.
I wouldn't have ever known that was part of the upkeep had I not read that report.
Concrete does have a much longer base lifespan than asphalt. In fact there are several concrete roads I frequent nowadays like Salinas Road (near San Juan Bautista) and Weber Avenue (in Herndon) which had their concrete surfaces applied in the 1920s. Even the concrete of Old Ridge Route still largely is intact while it's asphalt sealant has eroded long ago.
But to that end, yes when a road has constant heavy vehicles moving on it then it will require regular maintenance no matter the surface type used. Concrete does last significantly longer but it is also far more expensive and tends to provide way more rough of a ride compared to asphalt. Concrete roads from what I've observed also tend to be far more noisy (especially the clanking of cars over individual slabs) than similar asphalt surfaces.
Quote from: architect77 on August 22, 2021, 12:12:19 AM
I know why. Florida goes all out with top notch quality with their highways. They spend $13-14 billion a year on them and it shows.
My guess is that they do good grading, and suffiicient crowning of the roadways so they shed water well.
I will also suggest that a lot of time and effort goes into creating a firm and solid base, given the sandy soil in many parts of the state.
Quote from: kernals12 on August 19, 2021, 07:56:18 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 19, 2021, 06:32:42 PM
I wouldn't say any longer than other warm weather climates. Arizona had some really long lasting asphalt road surfaces in the Sonoran Desert until ADOT starting messing around with that quiet rubberized asphalt mix on the Phoenix areas freeways. The other desert states were also similar at low elevations where the climate was stable, snow free and mostly dry.
Something I have noticed with roads in Florida is that the asphalt aggregate is really firm compared to other states. I've never been quite sure if that is due to the local materials used or if there is some sort of methodology in terms of draining water faster at play.
But in terms of warmth, Florida is in a league of its own. Arizona does have parts that get cold. It will snow in the grand canyon.
You have obviously never spent time in the Florida panhandle in the winter. There's a reason they roll the beaches up in September...you won't be frolicking up there around Christmas without a jacket.
Quote from: DeaconG on August 23, 2021, 01:27:49 PM
Quote from: kernals12 on August 19, 2021, 07:56:18 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 19, 2021, 06:32:42 PM
I wouldn't say any longer than other warm weather climates. Arizona had some really long lasting asphalt road surfaces in the Sonoran Desert until ADOT starting messing around with that quiet rubberized asphalt mix on the Phoenix areas freeways. The other desert states were also similar at low elevations where the climate was stable, snow free and mostly dry.
Something I have noticed with roads in Florida is that the asphalt aggregate is really firm compared to other states. I've never been quite sure if that is due to the local materials used or if there is some sort of methodology in terms of draining water faster at play.
But in terms of warmth, Florida is in a league of its own. Arizona does have parts that get cold. It will snow in the grand canyon.
You have obviously never spent time in the Florida panhandle in the winter. There's a reason they roll the beaches up in September...you won't be frolicking up there around Christmas without a jacket.
Hell I remember when it snowed around Brooksville circa 2007. That definitely wasn't a common occurrence to see snow but usually it would get to at least 32F once or twice every winter.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 23, 2021, 01:36:33 PM
Quote from: DeaconG on August 23, 2021, 01:27:49 PM
Quote from: kernals12 on August 19, 2021, 07:56:18 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 19, 2021, 06:32:42 PM
I wouldn't say any longer than other warm weather climates. Arizona had some really long lasting asphalt road surfaces in the Sonoran Desert until ADOT starting messing around with that quiet rubberized asphalt mix on the Phoenix areas freeways. The other desert states were also similar at low elevations where the climate was stable, snow free and mostly dry.
Something I have noticed with roads in Florida is that the asphalt aggregate is really firm compared to other states. I've never been quite sure if that is due to the local materials used or if there is some sort of methodology in terms of draining water faster at play.
But in terms of warmth, Florida is in a league of its own. Arizona does have parts that get cold. It will snow in the grand canyon.
You have obviously never spent time in the Florida panhandle in the winter. There's a reason they roll the beaches up in September...you won't be frolicking up there around Christmas without a jacket.
Hell I remember when it snowed around Brooksville circa 2007. That definitely wasn't a common occurrence to see snow but usually it would get to at least 32F once or twice every winter.
I remember when I lived in Orlando and it got down to 21 degrees. Indubitably an unusual occurrence.
Quote from: Daniel Fiddler on August 23, 2021, 01:54:11 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 23, 2021, 01:36:33 PM
Quote from: DeaconG on August 23, 2021, 01:27:49 PM
Quote from: kernals12 on August 19, 2021, 07:56:18 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 19, 2021, 06:32:42 PM
I wouldn't say any longer than other warm weather climates. Arizona had some really long lasting asphalt road surfaces in the Sonoran Desert until ADOT starting messing around with that quiet rubberized asphalt mix on the Phoenix areas freeways. The other desert states were also similar at low elevations where the climate was stable, snow free and mostly dry.
Something I have noticed with roads in Florida is that the asphalt aggregate is really firm compared to other states. I've never been quite sure if that is due to the local materials used or if there is some sort of methodology in terms of draining water faster at play.
But in terms of warmth, Florida is in a league of its own. Arizona does have parts that get cold. It will snow in the grand canyon.
You have obviously never spent time in the Florida panhandle in the winter. There's a reason they roll the beaches up in September...you won't be frolicking up there around Christmas without a jacket.
Hell I remember when it snowed around Brooksville circa 2007. That definitely wasn't a common occurrence to see snow but usually it would get to at least 32F once or twice every winter.
I remember when I lived in Orlando and it got down to 21 degrees. Indubitably an unusual occurrence.
It only ever dipped into the high 30s the two years I lived in the city. There was definitely a heat island effect going on that likely wasn't a thing out on St. Johns River, Ocala National Forest nor the Green Swamp in the immediate vicinity. One time in 2013 it got down to 52F in Key West following a larger winter rainstorm. That was actually pretty miserable considering my home didn't have a heater or much on the way of insulation.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 23, 2021, 07:59:08 AM
Quote from: architect77 on August 23, 2021, 03:14:02 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 22, 2021, 12:22:19 AM
Quote from: architect77 on August 22, 2021, 12:12:19 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 19, 2021, 06:32:42 PM
I wouldn't say any longer than other warm weather climates. Arizona had some really long lasting asphalt road surfaces in the Sonoran Desert until ADOT starting messing around with that quiet rubberized asphalt mix on the Phoenix areas freeways. The other desert states were also similar at low elevations where the climate was stable, snow free and mostly dry.
Something I have noticed with roads in Florida is that the asphalt aggregate is really firm compared to other states. I've never been quite sure if that is due to the local materials used or if there is some sort of methodology in terms of draining water faster at play.
I know why. Florida goes all out with top notch quality with their highways. They spend $13-14 billion a year on them and it shows.
My guess is that they do good grading, and suffiicient crowning of the roadways so they shed water well.
When you hear the loud asphalt that's very porous in other regions it's because they have to give water somewhere to go, in the the airy pavement because water doesn't shed sufficiently fast enough to prevent hydroplaning.
Atlanta has to use that very porous mix and it gegrades quickly and only lasts about half as long as more solid mixtures. It's very loud too.
That's my guess about what you're speaking of.
Even local roads and stuff in private neighborhoods are like that also. When I lived in Florida it was the only state I ever found running on concrete to be softer on my joints. Yes, I always assumed it had something to do with draining water.
Well, if you can afford it, concrete will last and be maintenance-free for decades.
i take that back, after reading NCDOT's 2016 MOPAR report, I learned that they are always applying sealants to bridges and concrete pavement which extends its service life.
I wouldn't have ever known that was part of the upkeep had I not read that report.
Concrete does have a much longer base lifespan than asphalt. In fact there are several concrete roads I frequent nowadays like Salinas Road (near San Juan Bautista) and Weber Avenue (in Herndon) which had their concrete surfaces applied in the 1920s. Even the concrete of Old Ridge Route still largely is intact while it's asphalt sealant has eroded long ago.
But to that end, yes when a road has constant heavy vehicles moving on it then it will require regular maintenance no matter the surface type used. Concrete does last significantly longer but it is also far more expensive and tends to provide way more rough of a ride compared to asphalt. Concrete roads from what I've observed also tend to be far more noisy (especially the clanking of cars over individual slabs) than similar asphalt surfaces.
They must have new technology for laying concrete pavement, because like you said long ago, there were many joints between each short slab, SoCal has many highways like that...
But now the concrete sections of I-85 in NC, Charlotte and North of Charlotte seem smoth, quiet and with very few joints. Thats a good thing.
I-4 really needs to be repaved thru most of the Orlando area. Plenty of rough patches and even some potholes. FDOT can get away with delaying routine paving jobs for much longer then someplace with a freeze/thaw cycle.
Quote from: NJRoadfan on August 24, 2021, 08:42:31 PM
I-4 really needs to be repaved thru most of the Orlando area. Plenty of rough patches and even some potholes. FDOT can get away with delaying routine paving jobs for much longer then someplace with a freeze/thaw cycle.
Um. When's the last time you were down there? The I-4 Ultimate (https://i4ultimate.com/) project is almost done, the main lanes are on entirely new pavement.
Unless you mean by the attractions (Universal, SeaWorld, Disney, etc.). A complete reconstruction is on FDOT's radar (I'm guessing they're waiting for funding), which may explain below-average pavement condition. But even that isn't as bad as some of the smaller roads in the state.
The section in question is south/west of I-4 Ultimate's project limits.
Quote from: NJRoadfan on August 26, 2021, 09:47:45 PM
The section in question is south/west of I-4 Ultimate's project limits.
It will probably be part of I-4 Beyond The Ultimate.
Quote from: DeaconG on August 27, 2021, 07:18:27 PM
Quote from: NJRoadfan on August 26, 2021, 09:47:45 PM
The section in question is south/west of I-4 Ultimate's project limits.
It will probably be part of I-4 Beyond The Ultimate.
Only in Florida would they give that name to a highway project.
Quote from: Daniel Fiddler on August 20, 2021, 02:11:28 PM
I read somewhere a few years ago where one year they ranked the best and worst roads in all 50 states. In it, Florida had the best, Tennessee had the second best, and Georgia the third best. And if memory serves me right, I think Pennsylvania had the worst and Ohio the second worst. I forgot where I read this though.
Tennessee surprises me, since they get plenty of snow. I remember times where they would get more snow than New York!
Quote from: Daniel Fiddler on August 20, 2021, 02:11:28 PM
I read somewhere a few years ago where one year they ranked the best and worst roads in all 50 states. In it, Florida had the best, Tennessee had the second best, and Georgia the third best. And if memory serves me right, I think Pennsylvania had the worst and Ohio the second worst. I forgot where I read this though.
Ohio second worst? I can think of at least 15 states with worse road quality than Ohio based on my own experience and posts on this forum, and Illinois and Michigan are two of them just to single some states out in the Midwest. Not sure if it's the absolute worst, but I agree that Pennsylvania's isn't that great, especially with I-70 between Washington, PA and New Stanton, and east of Breezewood.
Quote from: SkyPesos on August 29, 2021, 10:54:41 PM
Quote from: Daniel Fiddler on August 20, 2021, 02:11:28 PM
I read somewhere a few years ago where one year they ranked the best and worst roads in all 50 states. In it, Florida had the best, Tennessee had the second best, and Georgia the third best. And if memory serves me right, I think Pennsylvania had the worst and Ohio the second worst. I forgot where I read this though.
Ohio second worst? I can think of at least 15 states with worse road quality than Ohio based on my own experience and posts on this forum, and Illinois and Michigan are two of them just to single some states out in the Midwest. Not sure if it's the absolute worst, but I agree that Pennsylvania's isn't that great, especially with I-70 between Washington, PA and New Stanton, and east of Breezewood.
Try New Mexico on for size and it will makes the likes of Ohio feel outstanding.
Georgia has the third best roads? I'm gonna have to dispute that. They aren't in horrible shape (especially compared to their neighbors Tennessee and South Carolina), but they aren't exactly amazing either.
Alabama roads are way better than Georgia. Both state and county roads.
Quote from: DeaconG on August 27, 2021, 07:18:27 PM
Quote from: NJRoadfan on August 26, 2021, 09:47:45 PM
The section in question is south/west of I-4 Ultimate's project limits.
It will probably be part of I-4 Beyond The Ultimate.
Managed Lanes: The Ultimate Spending Machine
Otherwise, pavement rarely potholes in Florida, concrete (usually only on interstates), really does seem to last a long time in Florida. If there's not a lot of truck traffic, asphalt can last for a good long while.
Drawbacks are rain, high temperatures, lots of truck traffic, and a soft road bed. If it's not cambered right, standing water pools up in places, causing deterioration (same as anywhere else). Some places have a poorer subsurface than others, and even though there's no visual problem with the pavement itself, it can get "wavy" over time.
Quote from: US 89 on September 02, 2021, 12:49:30 PM
Georgia has the third best roads? I'm gonna have to dispute that. They aren't in horrible shape (especially compared to their neighbors Tennessee and South Carolina), but they aren't exactly amazing either.
Alabama roads are way better than Georgia. Both state and county roads.
You can't give any credibility to these rankings because they don't factor in the size of the state-maintained system. If that were part of the ranking criteria then Georgia would take a dive because it hasn't really built any new highways since the 1960s so it's not fair to compare to Florida who constantly is building hundreds to miles of new roads.
And yes, Georgia does try to keep its original interstates smooth and that's wonderful. But the whole South half of metro Atlanta is neglected and the pavement is in horrid condition.
I've got back from my vacation to the Clearwater, FL area and yes I can vouch that the roads are far better than the others states I have driven on this trip. Mississippi had the worst, followed by Arkansas and then Alabama.
Speaking of Alabama, they need to get on the ball and get that new alignment of US 98 west-northwest of Mobile finished.
Some of the pavement was a little rough / coarse on the interstates but very few potholes.
For Kernels12 and NJRoadFan:
https://i4beyond.com/
I'll just add something to this topic to give my quick thoughts on this... I just moved from IL to FL, and my suspension on my car is already grateful! They are definitely way better here than anything in IL and North (yes, I realize the harsher weather does factor, but I also blame IDOT for neglecting its roads too). That said, to compare to some closer by states, I find FL to be better than GA for roads, and definitely better than TN. It's been a very long time since I've been in AL, so I cannot make a fair assessment there. Overall, I'm pretty happy with the roads here, and given the growth, I'd say FDOT does a good job overall.
The thing that always drove me up the wall in Florida when I lived there was the timed traffic lights, lack of turn lanes, questionably low speed limits and a general lack of centralized street grid planning. The Tampa and Suncoast were a quick refresher on all those items when I visited two weeks ago.
Now, what I do like in Florida probably more than any other state is the level of maintenance on County Roads. Even the most poorly maintained county roads tend to still have an acceptable level of surfacing quality. Florida is one of the states where the difference between the DOTs and Counties is close to nominal.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 25, 2023, 12:24:40 PM
The thing that always drove me up the wall in Florida when I lived there was the timed traffic lights, lack of turn lanes, questionably low speed limits and a general lack of centralized street grid planning. The Tampa and Suncoast were a quick refresher on all those items when I visited two weeks ago.
I agree with you on the stoplight timing. Definitely some room for improvement. TBH, I find most states don't do well with this unfortunately.
Palm Beach County's grid seems to be timed well. Is this not the case in most places in Florida?
Quote from: 1 on June 25, 2023, 04:13:17 PM
Palm Beach County's grid seems to be timed well. Is this not the case in most places in Florida?
The fact that Palm Beach County even has a "grid" is a rarity. I'm more used to the likes of the chaotic road networks of Orlando and the sprawl extending north of Old Tampa Bay. But yes, the timing tends to be absolutely horrible with traffic lights. US 19 along Suncoast immediately springs to mind as something I actively try to avoid due to excessively long timed light phases.
Quote from: DeaconG on September 30, 2021, 10:27:08 AM
For Kernels12 and NJRoadFan:
https://i4beyond.com/
I-4 Beyond: The Search for Spock
Quote from: triplemultiplex on June 27, 2023, 01:33:41 PM
Quote from: DeaconG on September 30, 2021, 10:27:08 AM
For Kernels12 and NJRoadFan:
https://i4beyond.com/
I-4 Beyond: The Search for Spock
Beyond I-4 sounds like the simulated meat vegan version of Interstate 4.