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Author Topic: Why wasn't the I-355 extension to I-57 more seriously considered?  (Read 12230 times)

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Re: Why wasn't the I-355 extension to I-57 more seriously considered?
« Reply #25 on: July 30, 2021, 05:54:00 PM »

Its more like no Indiana connection . I recall Edgars DOT sec said Indiana was not on board . I asked what  50 ? He said South Suburban because they thought they would need it for the airport. But he added both states had given up 50 at the time and FHWA wondered why we wanted IL 1 months NHS. Because 41 was on it. Our first NHS was a nod to the supplemental freeways.  Now it's just the FAP system.

I do suspect the extension to 57 was for the airport but no farther because Indiana.

Madigan didn't want the airport but went along because of his South Suburban members they were the key to the Illinois house then. So both parties tried to get popular projects

I think Indiana liked to cause problems because they wanted to promote Gary and the toll road. Quinn and Daniels came together on the Illiana then Rainer killed it and though Pritzger and Halcomb get along well I don't think it ever came up.

It's not in North West Indiana MPO plane but it is in the unconstrained list at CMAP. So is 53  so it may not mean much.
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Revive 755

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Re: Why wasn't the I-355 extension to I-57 more seriously considered?
« Reply #26 on: July 30, 2021, 11:08:21 PM »

The original post gets to the gist of this.

No Peotone airport = no real need for a southward extension of I-355.

Considering how often I-80 seems to have congestion between I-355 and I-57, and the lack of a decent arterial or semi-expressway to get south from I-355 for bypassing I-80 and cutting over to I-57, there's a need for at least some sort of partial extension.
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Re: Why wasn't the I-355 extension to I-57 more seriously considered?
« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2021, 11:40:24 PM »

Back when the extension to I-57 was a working concept, was there not a proposal to route I-355 along I-80 (either via Multiplex or via parallel carriageways a la I-355 and I-88) slightly west, and then break south for I-57 and the Peotone area? I never knew the exact “break” point where 355 was to diverge from 80

If there were any Political will to do it, I feel like the extension could still happen. It would be tight, and a warehouse or two would have to go and maybe a church, but the area at Gougar and I-80 could squeeze in a Freeway interchange and a Freeway heading south from there

That is just about the only spot in that general area where a southern extension could continue
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edwaleni

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Re: Why wasn't the I-355 extension to I-57 more seriously considered?
« Reply #28 on: July 31, 2021, 05:03:11 PM »

As late as 2018 politicos were still comparing the PP to I-355. But it was much different unfortunately.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/aurora-beacon-news/ct-abn-prairie-parkway-st-0327-20180326-story.html

It appears the Prairie Parkway, a planned link between Interstates 88 and 80, is truly dead.

Although many pronounced it dead about six years ago, when the Federal Highway Administration rescinded its approval of an alternative for the highway, others said it had a faint heartbeat as long as the state kept its protected corridor for the road.

But the Illinois Department of Transportation announced recently that it is canceling its corridor for the planned 37-mile Prairie Parkway through a part of southern Kane County, Kendall County and a part of northern Grundy County.

"This removes the last vestige of the ill-conceived billion-dollar project," said Jan Strasma, chairman of Citizens Against the Sprawlway, which organized in 2001 to fight the Prairie Parkway. "This final step removes the possibility of an unneeded expressway that would destroy thousands of acres of farmland, threaten the Fox River and its tributaries, and forever change the area's small community way of life."

While there has been discussion and even attempts at siting a centerline for an outer beltway since the 1980s, former U.S. Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert of Yorkville started the main Prairie Parkway attempt in 2001.

By the time he resigned from Congress in 2008, Hastert had gotten $207 million earmarked as part of the 2005 federal transportation bill for the parkway. While that was a fraction of the overall cost, it was enough to begin the process of siting the corridor and beginning Phase I engineering.

Many Kendall County officials through the years defended the parkway as an economic development generator for the county, and said that the link between Interstates 88 and 80 was necessary as the Chicago suburbs grow and traffic continues to choke north-south routes closer to Chicago.

There is only one main north-south route through Kendall County, Route 47. Kendall County Board Chairman Scott Gryder said more north-south routes remain "a very real need."

Gryder said county officials believe the state spent as much as $100 million in protecting the corridor, some of that in actual right-of-way purchase of about 15 acres of land. The rest would have been in legal costs and some engineering.

"Is that all out the window now?" he said. "It seems like a colossal waste of money. The big takeaway from this is that they could have spent that money on several big projects."

Gryder pointed out that Kendall County is working on several regional north-south connections through the county, including a Grove, Collins and Minkler roads hook-up. There also is the dormant Wikaduke Trail project on the eastern edge of the county.

Another planned north-south linkup would involve Eldamain Road, the border between Yorkville and Plano. Most of the road has been widened or is in planning to be widened, but the plan involves an eventual bridge crossing of the Fox River.

Gryder pointed out that money spent by the state on the Prairie Parkway would have more than paid the estimated $30 million it will take for the Eldamain Road bridge crossing.

The project is estimated to be at least 10 years away, Gryder said.

As far as the state abandoning the Prairie Parkway corridor, Gryder said it "didn't seem like having the protection was hurting anything."

The Citizens Against the Sprawlway disagreed. They pointed out that property owners in that corridor could not make any changes to their land without "state intervention."

Gryder said he believes the Prairie Parkway would have been similar to I-355, and that there still could be a need someday for a linkup between Interstates 80 and 88.

"What shape that takes is yet to be seen," he said.


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Ryctor2018

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Re: Why wasn't the I-355 extension to I-57 more seriously considered?
« Reply #29 on: July 31, 2021, 05:39:46 PM »


Yes there is, because of the Illiana Expressway.
[/quote]

Extending it to the proposed Illiana Tollway makes since, if this were done today. Or if the Infinity Gauntlet Thanos used in the Avengers movies really existed. Sarcasm aside, the deal is the Illiana was not proposed until 2010 (I think). The extension of I-355 was proposed decades earlier then completed 3 years earlier than the first drafts of Illiana were sketched out. A better idea was extending I-355 south to I-57 (or at least U.S. 30). However, IDOT did not protect the land. Now, there's virtually no possibility to extend I-355 further south without getting into fictional territory.
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Rick Powell

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Re: Why wasn't the I-355 extension to I-57 more seriously considered?
« Reply #30 on: August 02, 2021, 12:37:20 AM »

Back when the extension to I-57 was a working concept, was there not a proposal to route I-355 along I-80 (either via Multiplex or via parallel carriageways a la I-355 and I-88) slightly west, and then break south for I-57 and the Peotone area? I never knew the exact “break” point where 355 was to diverge from 80

If there were any Political will to do it, I feel like the extension could still happen. It would be tight, and a warehouse or two would have to go and maybe a church, but the area at Gougar and I-80 could squeeze in a Freeway interchange and a Freeway heading south from there

That is just about the only spot in that general area where a southern extension could continue

That was indeed the plan, to multiplex west on 80 from the now-built I-355 junction to a location west of the US 30 interchange, then continuing south. There was a vacant strip of land in the New Lenox area that was identified as the corridor in the village's land use plan, perhaps between Gougar and Cherry Hill roads but it's been a long time since I saw it, and I noticed it got removed at some point, likely around 2010 or so.
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Rick Powell

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Re: Why wasn't the I-355 extension to I-57 more seriously considered?
« Reply #31 on: August 04, 2021, 12:41:32 PM »

The alternate, the Prairie Parkway was devised by several Illinois Republicans along with the then Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert.  Because he was Speaker, he had leverage to get funding in several annual bills for IDOT to begin land acquisition.

That was conceived to be the final north-south "reliever" route between I-355 and I-39.

Unfortunately some of that land was owned by entities where Hastert had an interest. He has since passed away.

Western Kane County rural interests were dead set against it along with the usual green interests.

It is no longer in any long term planning, but I don't think IDOT has sold back the land they acquired from those Congressional grants. IDOT is renown for sitting on their land once they get their hands on it.

Last time I read anything about it, it mentioned that IDOT owned about 20-30% of the needed ROW for the PP.

Well, Hastert's not dead yet, but all vestiges of his memory are understandably being removed from the area. He didn't own any of the land directly within the corridor but had an interest in a proposed development near Galena Road where the corridor would pass nearby. IDOT didn't propose an exit at Galena Road (the nearest exits were at US 34 and US 30, about 5 miles in each direction) but somehow the county got behind a request to add a few interchanges to the route including Galena Road. That request was ultimately NOT incorporated in the EIS, which IDOT later agreed to put on the shelf as a "no build" after Pat Quinn became governor. Ironically, nothing ever got built on that development on Galena Road as the Great Recession was about to hit. Also ironically, the original lawsuit against the Prairie Parkway claimed depression of land values if it were built, and the narrative suddenly switched to enrichment of land values if it were built when news of Hastert's interest in the Galena Road property came out.

There are substantial acreages bought and still owned by IDOT near the proposed I-80 and US 34 interchanges, and a few other parcels here and there. A commercial sod farm formerly owned the land near I-80 and a family farm formerly owned the land near US 34. 

The rest of the Prairie Parkway federal money eventually went to widening IL 47 from I-80 to Caton Farm Road, widening US 34 from Plano to Oswego, and the new I-88/IL 47 interchange.

If you ever go under the Minooka Road bridge over I-80, you will notice that it was built extra wide to accommodate ramps for the proposed PP interchange. Also, the center median gets extra wide on US 34 east of Needham Road in Plano to accommodate turn lanes where the interchange was planned. These are the only physical vestiges of the planned freeway, and they will likely remain in place for a long time. 
« Last Edit: August 04, 2021, 01:41:39 PM by Rick Powell »
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edwaleni

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Re: Why wasn't the I-355 extension to I-57 more seriously considered?
« Reply #32 on: August 05, 2021, 03:05:04 PM »

The alternate, the Prairie Parkway was devised by several Illinois Republicans along with the then Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert.  Because he was Speaker, he had leverage to get funding in several annual bills for IDOT to begin land acquisition.

That was conceived to be the final north-south "reliever" route between I-355 and I-39.

Unfortunately some of that land was owned by entities where Hastert had an interest. He has since passed away.

Western Kane County rural interests were dead set against it along with the usual green interests.

It is no longer in any long term planning, but I don't think IDOT has sold back the land they acquired from those Congressional grants. IDOT is renown for sitting on their land once they get their hands on it.

Last time I read anything about it, it mentioned that IDOT owned about 20-30% of the needed ROW for the PP.

Well, Hastert's not dead yet, but all vestiges of his memory are understandably being removed from the area. He didn't own any of the land directly within the corridor but had an interest in a proposed development near Galena Road where the corridor would pass nearby. IDOT didn't propose an exit at Galena Road (the nearest exits were at US 34 and US 30, about 5 miles in each direction) but somehow the county got behind a request to add a few interchanges to the route including Galena Road. That request was ultimately NOT incorporated in the EIS, which IDOT later agreed to put on the shelf as a "no build" after Pat Quinn became governor. Ironically, nothing ever got built on that development on Galena Road as the Great Recession was about to hit. Also ironically, the original lawsuit against the Prairie Parkway claimed depression of land values if it were built, and the narrative suddenly switched to enrichment of land values if it were built when news of Hastert's interest in the Galena Road property came out.

There are substantial acreages bought and still owned by IDOT near the proposed I-80 and US 34 interchanges, and a few other parcels here and there. A commercial sod farm formerly owned the land near I-80 and a family farm formerly owned the land near US 34. 

The rest of the Prairie Parkway federal money eventually went to widening IL 47 from I-80 to Caton Farm Road, widening US 34 from Plano to Oswego, and the new I-88/IL 47 interchange.

If you ever go under the Minooka Road bridge over I-80, you will notice that it was built extra wide to accommodate ramps for the proposed PP interchange. Also, the center median gets extra wide on US 34 east of Needham Road in Plano to accommodate turn lanes where the interchange was planned. These are the only physical vestiges of the planned freeway, and they will likely remain in place for a long time.

My apology. I thought Mr. Hastert had passed away. I had confused it with a stroke he had just before his prison term. I thought the stroke had killed him.
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captkirk_4

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Re: Why wasn't the I-355 extension to I-57 more seriously considered?
« Reply #33 on: September 06, 2021, 11:48:11 AM »

What do you expect in Illinois, they can't get anything done. I looked on the overhead maps and it's all built up just south of the 355 and 80 so unless some alternate route is found it would be impossible even had they the will. I had thought instead of the Illiniana which seems dead now too they could just continue the four line, at grade crossing Illinois 17 east, from where it goes down to two lanes around Sun River Terrace and diverts north to Mommence. A four lane at grade roadway from Sun River Terrace all the way to I-65 at Roselawn would be a welcome diversion from the Kingery Borman traffic jam.

I know heading north from Central Illinois in the afternoon the phone app always shows that I-80 stretch stopped and bright red all the way from 57 to 65 so I usually divert over at exit 312 on 57 along IL 17 over to Mommence, then IL 114 which becomes IN 10 to Roselawn where I can catch I 65 up to 80-94 to Michigan. The IL 114 IN 10 are pretty poor secondary roads in a floodplain with some stretches lacking a shoulder and having deep ditches a few feet off the side of the road. Often a semi truck is rolling along at 53 miles an hour with 6 or 7 cars backing up behind it, not to mention how slow they are getting through the brief green light across US 41.

Bizarrely there are all these nudist colonies in Roselawn for some reason? Had noticed the sings and thought the silhouette of the couple reminded me of those nude people on that gold engraving on the space probe so looked up what all these "sun clubs" along IN 10 were. Just as I suspected, nudist colonies.
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Crash_It

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Re: Why wasn't the I-355 extension to I-57 more seriously considered?
« Reply #34 on: September 06, 2021, 11:21:57 PM »

What do you expect in Illinois, they can't get anything done.

Doesn't look like you get out much

IL390 Extension - Done ✅
I255 rehab - Done ✅
Jane Byrne interchange is now showing significant progress - ✔️

And possibly alot more than this but can't remember from the top of my head.
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ilpt4u

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Re: Why wasn't the I-355 extension to I-57 more seriously considered?
« Reply #35 on: September 07, 2021, 01:46:46 PM »

What do you expect in Illinois, they can't get anything done.

Doesn't look like you get out much

IL390 Extension - Done ✅
I255 rehab - Done ✅
Jane Byrne interchange is now showing significant progress - ✔️

And possibly alot more than this but can't remember from the top of my head.
Hard to say the IL 390 Extension is “done” - the Eastern extension is built, but not “done” per se, until I-490 is done, and even then, not really until the Western ORD terminal is built, because IL 390 will be to the West what I-190 is to the current ORD terminals. The Western Extension to (theoretically) meet the US 20 Elgin Freeway is still a maybe. Of course, it took ISTHA taking over the former Elgin-O’Hare Expressway/Now IL 390 Tollway and instituting Tolls to get the Eastern Extension built

The Rehab on I-255 is nice, but it was mostly done with asphalt paving. Granted, the Metro East and SoIL doesn’t get the same level of snow and cold as NoIL and Chicagoland, but asphalt paved roadways still seem to not hold up quite as well as concrete, IMO. We’ll see
« Last Edit: September 07, 2021, 01:56:48 PM by ilpt4u »
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US20IL64

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Re: Why wasn't the I-355 extension to I-57 more seriously considered?
« Reply #36 on: September 07, 2021, 10:26:26 PM »

490 may relieve truck traffic that clogs up the 290/53 cloverleaf, hopefully.

Big thing needed is rebuilding I80 bridge and Ike/290 [no it should not be I88] re-do in near west burbs.

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paulthemapguy

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Re: Why wasn't the I-355 extension to I-57 more seriously considered?
« Reply #37 on: October 07, 2021, 10:22:45 AM »

This is treading into Fictional territory, but I thought I would post my map for my idea of what the I-355 extension would look like.  https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=13MAHkPkSIcxAy22UHny3Uhdye2M&usp=sharing
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Re: Why wasn't the I-355 extension to I-57 more seriously considered?
« Reply #38 on: October 07, 2021, 10:38:43 AM »

This is treading into Fictional territory, but I thought I would post my map for my idea of what the I-355 extension would look like.  https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=13MAHkPkSIcxAy22UHny3Uhdye2M&usp=sharing

Too bad it's getting into fictional territory, because I really like the layout of not only the I-57 extension, but also the Fox Valley Expressway. That said, it's a small miracle that I-355 was even extended to I-80. At this point, the only realistic "extension" of I-355 would be to reroute it over the I-290 portion North of its current North Terminus. Illinois not locking up ROW for I-355 South of I-80 pretty much sealed its fate.
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abefroman329

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Re: Why wasn't the I-355 extension to I-57 more seriously considered?
« Reply #39 on: October 07, 2021, 11:00:34 AM »

What do you expect in Illinois, they can't get anything done.

Doesn't look like you get out much

IL390 Extension - Done ✅
I255 rehab - Done ✅
Jane Byrne interchange is now showing significant progress - ✔️

And possibly alot more than this but can't remember from the top of my head.
Hard to say the IL 390 Extension is “done” - the Eastern extension is built, but not “done” per se, until I-490 is done, and even then, not really until the Western ORD terminal is built, because IL 390 will be to the West what I-190 is to the current ORD terminals. The Western Extension to (theoretically) meet the US 20 Elgin Freeway is still a maybe. Of course, it took ISTHA taking over the former Elgin-O’Hare Expressway/Now IL 390 Tollway and instituting Tolls to get the Eastern Extension built

The Rehab on I-255 is nice, but it was mostly done with asphalt paving. Granted, the Metro East and SoIL doesn’t get the same level of snow and cold as NoIL and Chicagoland, but asphalt paved roadways still seem to not hold up quite as well as concrete, IMO. We’ll see
I don't know that the Western Terminal is still in the works and I don't know if there are still plans to extend IL-390 east of I-490. 
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captkirk_4

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Re: Why wasn't the I-355 extension to I-57 more seriously considered?
« Reply #40 on: October 10, 2021, 11:16:21 AM »

What do you expect in Illinois, they can't get anything done.

Doesn't look like you get out much

IL390 Extension - Done ✅
I255 rehab - Done ✅
Jane Byrne interchange is now showing significant progress - ✔️

And possibly alot more than this but can't remember from the top of my head.

I remember the 53 extension up to Grayslake has been trying to get built since the 80s but all we ever got was a single mile from Dundee Road up to Lake Cook. What we got was an inadequate trickle when we needed Eisenhower level expansion which only seems still being done in Texas and a handful of other places. Lake County is a giant traffic jam. I left Chicagoland in 1990, but visited about 15 year later and went up Route 12. As a kid it wasn't too bad with traffic and already partially expressway. What should have been done is convert the rest to limited access along with the 53 extension up to Great America. But what happened was the addition of new stop lights every half mile and it took me literally forever to get up to Fox Lake. With the state declining in population I don't think that the south Will County northern Kankakee County area will ever become sprawl (Chicago proper is going to become a ghost town like Detroit due to pro crime leadership.) So instead of the Illiana I think a four lane at grade crossing road like US 51 from Bloomington to Pana would be a viable option. IL 17 is already four lane from Kankakee to Sun River Terrace, extend that south of Mommence into Indiana South of Roselawn and four lane 17 west of Kankakee over to I 55 and Wilmington. Yesterday I already saw a lot of trucks getting off 65 northbound at Roselawn and going west over to 57 along that two lane road with a huge moat a foot off to the side of the road on Indiana 10. Any sudden veering an a semi will be laying in the ditch laying on it's side. Too much traffic both ways to pass slow vehicles and too many trees for good visibility even without any oncoming traffic. Sill better than the 70 minute delay from Exit 11 where 65 and 94 come together to the State Line, then more delays on 80 in Illinois itself.
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Revive 755

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Re: Why wasn't the I-355 extension to I-57 more seriously considered?
« Reply #41 on: October 10, 2021, 10:55:21 PM »

With the state declining in population I don't think that the south Will County northern Kankakee County area will ever become sprawl (Chicago proper is going to become a ghost town like Detroit due to pro crime leadership.)

Going off of Wikipedia, it doesn't look like the overall Detroit metro area has experienced a significant population decline like the core city did.  I could see Chicagoland going more like metro St. Louis where population generally quits growing but the overall area grows outward (though right now I don't have much confidence in predictions until seeing how things play out for a couple years after the pandemic winds down).
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Crash_It

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Re: Why wasn't the I-355 extension to I-57 more seriously considered?
« Reply #42 on: October 11, 2021, 02:14:44 PM »

What do you expect in Illinois, they can't get anything done.

Doesn't look like you get out much

IL390 Extension - Done ✅
I255 rehab - Done ✅
Jane Byrne interchange is now showing significant progress - ✔️

And possibly alot more than this but can't remember from the top of my head.

.With the state declining in population I don't think that the south Will County northern Kankakee County area will ever become sprawl (Chicago proper is going to become a ghost town like Detroit due to pro crime leadership.)


Chicago will never become like Detroit, it actually grew in population unlike Detroit. Not that many people overall have left Illinois. Or, they left and came back.
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paulthemapguy

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Re: Why wasn't the I-355 extension to I-57 more seriously considered?
« Reply #43 on: October 20, 2021, 09:08:40 AM »

With the state declining in population I don't think that the south Will County northern Kankakee County area will ever become sprawl (Chicago proper is going to become a ghost town like Detroit due to pro crime leadership.)

Going off of Wikipedia, it doesn't look like the overall Detroit metro area has experienced a significant population decline like the core city did.  I could see Chicagoland going more like metro St. Louis where population generally quits growing but the overall area grows outward (though right now I don't have much confidence in predictions until seeing how things play out for a couple years after the pandemic winds down).

This makes more sense. New homes and businesses sure are getting built out here to continue the urban sprawl, but it isn't a super-fast explosion of growth like in, say, 2000-2006.
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SEWIGuy

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Re: Why wasn't the I-355 extension to I-57 more seriously considered?
« Reply #44 on: October 20, 2021, 09:50:09 AM »

What do you expect in Illinois, they can't get anything done.

Doesn't look like you get out much

IL390 Extension - Done ✅
I255 rehab - Done ✅
Jane Byrne interchange is now showing significant progress - ✔️

And possibly alot more than this but can't remember from the top of my head.

.With the state declining in population I don't think that the south Will County northern Kankakee County area will ever become sprawl (Chicago proper is going to become a ghost town like Detroit due to pro crime leadership.)


Chicago will never become like Detroit, it actually grew in population unlike Detroit. Not that many people overall have left Illinois. Or, they left and came back.


Illinois declined in population between 2010 and 2020.  Chicagoland *increased* in population during the same time frame.  It's the rural counties and some mid-sized cities where people are leaving.

https://www.chicagomag.com/news/where-illinois-is-losing-population/

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cabiness42

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Re: Why wasn't the I-355 extension to I-57 more seriously considered?
« Reply #45 on: October 20, 2021, 10:31:56 AM »

What do you expect in Illinois, they can't get anything done.

Doesn't look like you get out much

IL390 Extension - Done ✅
I255 rehab - Done ✅
Jane Byrne interchange is now showing significant progress - ✔️

And possibly alot more than this but can't remember from the top of my head.

.With the state declining in population I don't think that the south Will County northern Kankakee County area will ever become sprawl (Chicago proper is going to become a ghost town like Detroit due to pro crime leadership.)


Chicago will never become like Detroit, it actually grew in population unlike Detroit. Not that many people overall have left Illinois. Or, they left and came back.


Illinois declined in population between 2010 and 2020.  Chicagoland *increased* in population during the same time frame.  It's the rural counties and some mid-sized cities where people are leaving.

https://www.chicagomag.com/news/where-illinois-is-losing-population/



They're tired of funding Chicago.
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triplemultiplex

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Re: Why wasn't the I-355 extension to I-57 more seriously considered?
« Reply #46 on: October 20, 2021, 04:58:58 PM »

What do you expect in Illinois, they can't get anything done.

Doesn't look like you get out much

IL390 Extension - Done ✅
I255 rehab - Done ✅
Jane Byrne interchange is now showing significant progress - ✔️

And possibly alot more than this but can't remember from the top of my head.

.With the state declining in population I don't think that the south Will County northern Kankakee County area will ever become sprawl (Chicago proper is going to become a ghost town like Detroit due to pro crime leadership.)


Chicago will never become like Detroit, it actually grew in population unlike Detroit. Not that many people overall have left Illinois. Or, they left and came back.


Illinois declined in population between 2010 and 2020.  Chicagoland *increased* in population during the same time frame.  It's the rural counties and some mid-sized cities where people are leaving.

https://www.chicagomag.com/news/where-illinois-is-losing-population/



They're tired of funding Chicago.

Pssh those yokels got it backward; Chicago funds their country asses.
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mukade

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Re: Why wasn't the I-355 extension to I-57 more seriously considered?
« Reply #47 on: October 20, 2021, 08:25:25 PM »

What do you expect in Illinois, they can't get anything done.

Doesn't look like you get out much

IL390 Extension - Done ✅
I255 rehab - Done ✅
Jane Byrne interchange is now showing significant progress - ✔️

And possibly alot more than this but can't remember from the top of my head.

.With the state declining in population I don't think that the south Will County northern Kankakee County area will ever become sprawl (Chicago proper is going to become a ghost town like Detroit due to pro crime leadership.)


Chicago will never become like Detroit, it actually grew in population unlike Detroit. Not that many people overall have left Illinois. Or, they left and came back.

This is a comparison of population changes over time of the large cities and metropolitan areas nearest to Chicago. The biggest problem Illinois has with respect to population loss is the high property taxes.

Chicago Metro Detroit Metro St. LouisMetro Indianapolis Metro Milwaukee Metro
19503,620,9626.6%5,495,36413.9%1,849,56813.9%3,219,25626.5%856,7965.0%1,681,28117.4%427,17310.4%551,77719.7%637,3928.5%1,014,21115.7%
19603,550,404-1.9%6,794,46123.6%1,670,144-9.7%4,012,60724.6%750,026-12.5%2,262,62434.6%476,25811.5%976,42677.0%741,32416.3%1,278,85026.1%
19703,366,957-5.2%7,612,31412.0%1,514,063-9.3%4,490,90211.9%622,236-12.5%2,535,72512.1%744,62456.3%1,145,87117.4%717,099-3.3%1,403,6889.8%
19803,005,072-10.7%7,869,5423.4%1,203,368-20.5%4,387,783-2.3%453,805-27.1%2,503,549-1.3%700,807-5.9%1,208,1155.4%636,212-11.3%1,397,143-0.5%
19902,783,726-7.4%8,065,6332.5%1,027,974-14.6%4,266,654-2.8%396,685-12.6%2,580,8973.1%731,3274.4%1,294,2177.1%628,088-1.3%1,432,1492.5%
20002,896,0164.0%9,098,31612.8%951,270-7.5%4,441,5514.1%348,189-12.2%2,698,6874.6%781,9266.9%1,525,10417.8%596,974-5.0%1,500,7414.8%
20102,695,598-6.9%9,461,1054.0%713,777-25.0%4,296,250-3.3%319,294-8.3%2,787,7013.3%820,4454.9%1,887,87723.8%594,833-0.4%1,555,9083.7%
20202,746,3881.90%9,618,5021.7%639,111-10.5%4,392,0412.2%301,578-5.5%2,820,2533.3%887,6428.2%2,111,04011.8%577,222-3.0%1,575,1791.2%

1950-2020
Chicago-24.2%75.0% (metro)
Detroit-65.4%36.4% (metro)
St. Louis-64.8%57.3% (metro)
Indianapolis107.8%282.6% (metro)
Milwaukee-9.4%55.3% (metro)
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SEWIGuy

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Re: Why wasn't the I-355 extension to I-57 more seriously considered?
« Reply #48 on: October 20, 2021, 09:19:37 PM »

So your "proof" that the problem with Illinois is high property taxes is that the Chicago metropolitan area grew 75% since 1950?  More than any city you chose except Indianapolis?  A metropolitan area a tenth of Chicago's size in 1950?

The "problem" with Chicago is vastly overrated.  It is a world class city that attracts a lot of people because it is a great place to raise your family and advance your career, all while living relatively cheaply compared to similar cities with similar attributes.
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edwaleni

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Re: Why wasn't the I-355 extension to I-57 more seriously considered?
« Reply #49 on: October 21, 2021, 10:28:49 AM »

Illinois is declining because of several factors. No one can point to just one and say that is it.

- Over taxation of property

The IL legislature has essentially taken a pay day loan using future property tax income as collateral. This has caused the increase in property taxes to offset and in some cases overtake increases in property values.

- Public service payrolls and pensions not in line with economy

Some of the poorest counties like Alexander and Hardin, the highest paid person in town is usually the district superintendent or the high school principal. In one Illinois county the highest paid person was the middle school basketball coach and PE teacher. 60% over the county median income.
In Murphysboro, Illinois the district superintendent was making over 200k, 150% over the county median.

While Illinois has been aggressively offering 5 Plus early retirements to statewide teachers, the pension benefits they offer are expensive because the teachers are leaving at age 60, not 65. This is not being offset by the lower pay of newer teachers.

- Too many government entities to support

Illinois still adheres to a very ancient governance model. It made sense in 1825, but it really hasn't changed much.

State>County>Township

In the days of horse and buggy, it completely made sense that townships had their own governance structure (roads, fire, police, parks, etc.)

Townships over time have released some of those areas in some counties. But at this point, Townships best function is to provide defined taxing areas. It's a layer of cost that can be retired.

- Too many school districts

There are many rural school districts that have become too expensive to operate relative to the economy they can support and the state has to make up the difference (and they aren't)

There are many school districts that still point back to their formation in the 1800's. With Illinois underfunding reimbursements, many of these districts are running large deficits because they can't afford the teachers and operational costs.

While this has caused many districts to merge to save themselves, but it isn't happening fast enough.

None of these issues has anything to do with urban vs rural, city vs town folk. It's about streamlining the costs of governance and get them in line with the realities of what Illinois has become.

When your population declines, you can't keep doubling down and tax the fewer yet more to make up for it. You have to reconcile what can be done to what is possible.
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