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Ampersand (&) on freeway exit signs

Started by KCRoadFan, August 27, 2021, 06:49:17 PM

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KCRoadFan

I was just thinking: where have you seen an ampersand (the "&"  symbol) on a freeway exit sign? (I'm talking about the main sign at the exit, not supplementary signage.) However common it might be, it seems rare enough to me that whenever I do see it, it immediately stands out. The two signs that I can think of are both in Missouri: namely, the exit for "Hickman Mills Drive/Blue River Road/85th & 87th Street"  on US 71 in my hometown of KC, and the exit for "Lucas & Hunt Road"  on I-70 just outside St. Louis. In addition, cloverleaf interchanges in Minnesota use an ampersand to separate the letter suffixes instead of a hyphen; for example, the interchange with I-90 north of Albert Lea is "EXITS 13A&B"  on I-35, which would appear as "EXITS 13A-B"  in most other states.

Aside from what I mentioned, what other examples are there of ampersands on freeway exit signs throughout the country?


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MikeTheActuary

Exit 39&41/41&39, I-91, Connecticut

Scott5114

The reason why it's rare is because it's discouraged by the MUTCD:

Quote from: 2009 MUTCD, Chapter 2E
Periods, apostrophes, question marks, ampersands, or other punctuation or characters that are not letters, numerals, or hyphens should not be used in abbreviations, unless necessary to avoid confusion.

The solidus (slanted line or forward slash) is intended to be used for fractions only and should not be used to separate words on the same line of legend. Instead, a hyphen should be used for this purpose, such as "CARS — TRUCKS."

Amusingly, the example the MUTCD gives uses an en dash, not a hyphen, but whatever.

"Hickman Mills Drive/Blue River Road/85th & 87th Street" should be signed as "Hickman Mills Drive/Blue River Road/85th St — 87th St". The only bad thing is that since they're numeric streets, it resembles a range rather than a separations, kind of implying that there's an 86th Street that can be reached from that exit too. (Maybe MoDOT should stop trying to cram four roads on one sign panel...)
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Henry

I'm sure that commuter parking lots would disqualify for this, e.g. "PARK & RIDE".
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NWI_Irish96

Quote from: Henry on August 27, 2021, 07:12:14 PM
I'm sure that commuter parking lots would disqualify for this, e.g. "PARK & RIDE".

Only if it's in Baltimore.
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formulanone

Quote from: Scott5114 on August 27, 2021, 07:10:54 PM
(Maybe MoDOT should stop trying to cram four roads on one sign panel...)

Three's a stretch:


webny99

^ That entire last line is bonkers. "Jct Routes" could be eliminated. Presumably US-50 (dash and all) could be as well, and then you could have a sign about half the width of that one.

plain

Quote from: webny99 on August 27, 2021, 07:46:46 PM
^ That entire last line is bonkers. "Jct Routes" could be eliminated. Presumably US-50 (dash and all) could be as well, and then you could have a sign about half the width of that one.

Also, I think that 2 could be moved to the right a bit.
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1995hoo

Inner Loop of the Capital Beltway approaching Exits 169 and 170, the exit tabs use ampersands "Exits 169 & 170B" ).

I think we had a thread about this before.
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SkyPesos

Exit tab for OH 126 "Exits 32B&C". This is the only example I can think of right now, as normally, the state uses dashes for suffixed exits.

Scott5114

Quote from: webny99 on August 27, 2021, 07:46:46 PM
^ That entire last line is bonkers. "Jct Routes" could be eliminated. Presumably US-50 (dash and all) could be as well, and then you could have a sign about half the width of that one.

Except the problem is that MoDOT specs say that "Route" must be prefixed on every route number, including Interstates, and that it must never be abbreviated, ever. So you get this funky "Route I-xx" construction that shows up whenever MoDOT has to refer to an interstate in text form.



Of course, KDOT (and most other states) would solve this problem by just signing it "".
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bassoon1986

I was thinking this new interchange on I-35E in Denton, Tx had an ampersand. Just looots of hyphens. And an apostrophe.

https://goo.gl/maps/6NeS7pZYCmdXhtVw5


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froggie

Quote from: plain on August 27, 2021, 08:11:39 PM
Quote from: webny99 on August 27, 2021, 07:46:46 PM
^ That entire last line is bonkers. "Jct Routes" could be eliminated. Presumably US-50 (dash and all) could be as well, and then you could have a sign about half the width of that one.

Also, I think that 2 could be moved to the right a bit.

Actually, if anything, the 2 should be moved to the left to line up with the fractions above (whole numbers left of fractions).

plain

Quote from: froggie on August 27, 2021, 09:00:42 PM
Quote from: plain on August 27, 2021, 08:11:39 PM
Quote from: webny99 on August 27, 2021, 07:46:46 PM
^ That entire last line is bonkers. "Jct Routes" could be eliminated. Presumably US-50 (dash and all) could be as well, and then you could have a sign about half the width of that one.

Also, I think that 2 could be moved to the right a bit.

Actually, if anything, the 2 should be moved to the left to line up with the fractions above (whole numbers left of fractions).

That makes sense but I don't recall actually seeing signs like that.

____________________________________________


As for the ampersands, here's Exits 5 & 6 on I-264 EB in Portsmouth. This actually could also go in the thread about the ramps that split into different exit numbers or letters or something... I forgot what it was.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/kMCRPkfUM5BLwNWB8
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ran4sh

The Clearview ampersand is terrible compared to the FHWA standard font ampersand.

As for the fractions being aligned on Interchange Sequence signs, that is the standard in some states, although the MUTCD example sign doesn't do that.
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wanderer2575

I-70 East & West (and also I-81 East & West) near Hagerstown MD:
https://goo.gl/maps/QpvZ8RCxTbE4mBDP6

For Clearview, we have exits 148A & 147 near Brighton MI:
https://goo.gl/maps/X1Eu257WjpWpsMfz6

DTComposer

This was on I-5 northbound in Santa Clarita (Los Angeles County) for about 10 years:


(image from GSV)

It has since been replaced to accommodate the internal exit number tab. "Ventura &" was removed, so it now (erroneously) implies that CA-126 West is Newhall Ranch Road.

TheHighwayMan3561

Quote from: KCRoadFan on August 27, 2021, 06:49:17 PMIn addition, cloverleaf interchanges in Minnesota use an ampersand to separate the letter suffixes instead of a hyphen; for example, the interchange with I-90 north of Albert Lea is "EXITS 13A&B"  on I-35, which would appear as "EXITS 13A-B"  in most other states.

This is no longer actively the case as hyphens have replaced ampersands in most of these instances, with the majority of the ampersands that still exist being old center-aligned signs that have yet to be replaced, though there are a couple exceptions.
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dgolub

There have been some US 1&9 shields in New Jersey, although US 1-9 is more common.

froggie

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 28, 2021, 03:35:52 AM
Quote from: KCRoadFan on August 27, 2021, 06:49:17 PMIn addition, cloverleaf interchanges in Minnesota use an ampersand to separate the letter suffixes instead of a hyphen; for example, the interchange with I-90 north of Albert Lea is "EXITS 13A&B"  on I-35, which would appear as "EXITS 13A-B"  in most other states.

This is no longer actively the case as hyphens have replaced ampersands in most of these instances, with the majority of the ampersands that still exist being old center-aligned signs that have yet to be replaced, though there are a couple exceptions.

Noticed one such exception on I-35 in Owatonna today.

Then noticed another case where the advance guide signs for Exit 42 had been replaced with hyphens, but the gore sign still had an ampersand.


TheHighwayMan3561

Quote from: froggie on August 28, 2021, 08:38:52 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 28, 2021, 03:35:52 AM
Quote from: KCRoadFan on August 27, 2021, 06:49:17 PMIn addition, cloverleaf interchanges in Minnesota use an ampersand to separate the letter suffixes instead of a hyphen; for example, the interchange with I-90 north of Albert Lea is "EXITS 13A&B"  on I-35, which would appear as "EXITS 13A-B"  in most other states.

This is no longer actively the case as hyphens have replaced ampersands in most of these instances, with the majority of the ampersands that still exist being old center-aligned signs that have yet to be replaced, though there are a couple exceptions.

Noticed one such exception on I-35 in Owatonna today.

The other two exceptions that I am aware of are on I-694 eastbound approaching I-35W in New Brighton (part of the sign replacement for when they changed the EB lane drop from the I-35W South exit to I-35W North around 2006-2007).

I noticed one example on I-35W at 494 where a new exit tab with an ampersand was quickly switched out, around 2011-2012 in GSV.
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CardInLex

Couldn't get Google to let me copy the Street View link but here is one in Lexington, KY

https://goo.gl/maps/HZ1qYBnxTQuaeYyi8

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