Will anyone ever eclipse Michael Jackson?

[thspfc]

I came across an interesting debate online, basically about whether Michael Jackson or Drake is the #1 artist of all time. Now, Jackson was pretty clearly a bigger artist than Drake is or has been; I don't think that's up for debate. But it made me think deeper. The consensus was that Michael Jackson will always be the #1 music artist of all time for a few reasons: 1) Jackson achieved worldwide fame to a degree that no one else ever has; 2) many of Jackson's songs are, in many people's views, timeless, and will be iconic forever; and 3) with things like Spotify and SoundCloud, it's much easier to be an overnight sensation today than it was in the 20th century.

On the contrary, it was pointed out that Drake has more #1 albums and more #1 songs.

Of course, because it's music and because it's the Internet, you had your typical "I pass off my opinions as facts" people, who say stuff like "Drake's music is terrible, he's not #1", or the equivalent for Jackson. But let's put our personal tastes in music aside here.

While, at this point in time, Jackson would be the majority pick for GOAT artist, I am not convinced that it will stay that way forever. The claim that Jackson's songs are timeless while [insert hugely popular current artist here] songs' will not be, cannot be proven at all, because the majority of Jackson's avid fanbase is still alive, and we'll see what happens when that is no longer the case. And, obviously a 5 year old song can't be considered timeless because it's only been 5 years, but who knows, it might still be well known in 50 years.

While the Internet has obviously made it easier for artists to GET huge, I would argue that it has made it harder for artists to STAY huge. Nowadays some random teenager off the street can blow up in a week, steal the spotlight, and become the most popular artist, only for some other unknown to take their throne in six months.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

I would agree it's "easy" to get big, but not stay there. A lot of these people seem to be kids who just get lucky with one hit song that blows up on YouTube or TikTok and then they ride that for a year or two until it becomes clear they can't do it again.

The emphasis on singles and being a one-hit wonder has grown even bigger with digital downloads.

[In_Correct]

Michael Jackson was 9 years old and had his family joining him. His career began in 1967 and had Music Lessons earlier than that. He also performed in numerous Genres Of Music.

I do not know of any other Musicians that have done any thing like this. Musicians of that time period had much larger success both in songs and length of careers.

I very much doubt that Random Teenagers with no Families, no Orchestras, not even any Managers, only their Smart Phones (!) to make Music.

If they make Videos as well, they are badly recorded.

I watch the Recommended Videos of Artists Vlogging, often updating Physical Fitness Videos, ... Not much long after, they have Regressed ... usually be cause of Drugs ... and then they do absolutely nothing except post Wads Of Cash ... and attempt to make Music instead.


And The Music that I have encountered is an Artist by them selves, and Their Smart Phones. They Rhyme Needlessly, Repeat Loud Beats more often than G-Force: Guardians Of Space, and attempt to Sing Or Rap Or Spit Bars Or What Ever  The Correct Term Is Supposed To Be. The result is not even being able to hear what they are supposed to be saying.

Some say they are going to Blow Up, and post absolutely nothing at all. Are the Smart Phones supposed to Compose Music by them selves?!

Another Difficulty that Artists encounter is that every body is one.

Every Body Is A Musician. No Body Is In An Orchestra.

[hotdogPi]

Keep in mind that India might surpass the United States in many areas within the next 30 years. It's already happened with the most subscribed YouTube channel.

[Max Rockatansky]

It would be pretty hard.  The amount of different genres Michael Jackson had songs in is pretty massive.  There are a lot of all great songs that were preformed by Michael Jackson.  A good portion of my 70s, 80s and 90s oriented MP3 player (a thing I still use) is weighted heavily by Michael Jackson songs.

[plain]

One thing Michael was very consistent with.. messages in his songs. How many artists have positive meanings in the majority of their songs and the songs are still bangers? Sure Mike had songs that catered to the dance floor and some love songs (most of which were also bangers) but Mike didn't have to do what many have been doing for over 20 years now to get attention (being super sexual, [falsely] bragging about their money and class, being a "gangsta", etc.). He also basically led MTV to change what they were doing in the early 80's.. Yeah he had his issues but above anything else, he was purely about his music and being an entertainer. I really don't see anyone else pushing barriers like that.

[Hot Rod Hootenanny]

I came across an interesting debate online, basically about whether Michael Jackson or Drake is the #1 artist of all time.

Based on what?
Elvis has the most #1 songs
The Beatles had the most songs on the top 40 at one time
The Eagles have the biggest selling album

[jeffandnicole]

I came across an interesting debate online, basically about whether Michael Jackson or Drake is the #1 artist of all time.

Based on what?
Elvis has the most #1 songs
The Beatles had the most songs on the top 40 at one time
The Eagles have the biggest selling album

Between those two, mayyyybe Michael Jackson. Drake shouldn't even been in the top 500.

[Max Rockatansky]

I came across an interesting debate online, basically about whether Michael Jackson or Drake is the #1 artist of all time.

Based on what?
Elvis has the most #1 songs
The Beatles had the most songs on the top 40 at one time
The Eagles have the biggest selling album

Between those two, mayyyybe Michael Jackson. Drake shouldn't even been in the top 500.

I didn't even know who Drake was until I looked it up because of this thread.

[kurumi]

[Scott5114]

I think it's a question without an answer. Nobody can be the greatest artist of all time because there's just no way to evaluate that in a way that makes sense. I could say the greatest artist of all time is, say, John Coltrane. And an argument could be had as to who was a better artist, Coltrane or Jackson. But it would boil down to a kind of meaningless comparison, because they didn't approach music remotely the same way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30FTr6G53VU

Listening to this, it's clear Coltrane was pretty damn talented. It's in the key of...everything, and somehow Coltrane was able to improvise a coherent song out of that. You can find videos where people versed in music theory analyze this recording for longer than the song itself, just peeling back the layers of how he made it work.

Michael Jackson's songs were comparatively simple, straightforward pop songs. But on the other hand, you watch the "Thriller" video and it's just as impressive as what Coltrane was doing, just in a totally different way, using video and theatrics to catch the audience's attention rather than technical and composition ability. The two of them were both excellent artists, and both musicians, they just excelled in different crafts. So how can you say one of them is definitively better than the other?

Also, newer artists have the advantage of being able to build on what came before. Coltrane couldn't do what Jackson did because Jackson hadn't done it yet. An artist today could incorporate ideas from both Coltrane and Jackson and come up with something that ends up feeling totally new and original.

And I don't think that record or ticket sales have any place in the discussion at all. Sales figures say more about the competence of your marketing execs than your talent as an artist. And luck is a factor too. There might be some kid in Limon, Colorado right now fucking around and writing music that would blow the minds of everyone that hears it...who never gets discovered because he's too shy to show anyone his work, or he never manages to be in the right place at the right time to gain wider exposure.

And The Music that I have encountered is an Artist by them selves, and Their Smart Phones. They Rhyme Needlessly

What is the difference between essential rhyming and needless rhyming? Sorry, Needless Rhyming.

[1995hoo]

One thing I'd say seems highly unlikely is for any particular artist ever to release something that has the massive impact of an album like Thriller where it's overwhelmingly popular across almost all sectors of society and receives near-universal airplay. The music market is far more fragmented than it was at the time and it's unlikely for any one album to become that sort of hit ever again in today's world–an album where pretty much everybody knows what album it is and is aware of at least some of the songs on it even if a particular individual hasn't actively listened to it. In the early 1980s, if you heard "Beat It," you knew what song it was.

[NWI_Irish96]

One thing I'd say seems highly unlikely is for any particular artist ever to release something that has the massive impact of an album like Thriller where it's overwhelmingly popular across almost all sectors of society and receives near-universal airplay. The music market is far more fragmented than it was at the time and it's unlikely for any one album to become that sort of hit ever again in today's world–an album where pretty much everybody knows what album it is and is aware of at least some of the songs on it even if a particular individual hasn't actively listened to it. In the early 1980s, if you heard "Beat It," you knew what song it was.

In the sense that we have so many more ways to make our own choices about what music to listen to, MJ will never be surpassed. In the 1980s, your only options for listening to music were on a terrestrial radio station or on albums or cassettes you had purchased. Now there are so many more ways to listen to music, so no single artist will ever get the market penetration that MJ had. It doesn't mean that Drake, or any other contemporary artist, isn't as good or better, just that they won't ever be as popular.

Much in the same way that no movie or television show will ever have the market penetration today compared to 30-40 years ago.

[nexus73]

Pink Floyd's album "Dark Side Of The Moon" was in the Top 200 seller list for almost 40 years.  That will be hard to beat!

Rick

[hbelkins]

The only reason I know who Drake is is because of his friendship with John Calipari.

I could not name you one song done by Drake, nor would I recognize him as the artist if I did hear one of his songs.

[JayhawkCO]

The only reason I know who Drake is is because of his friendship with John Calipari.

I could not name you one song done by Drake, nor would I recognize him as the artist if I did hear one of his songs.

I know who he is, and had a CD or two of his back in college, but I am with you in general.  MJ spanned all generations.  Everyone knew "Thriller", "Beat It", or "Billie Jean".  I'd say maaaaaybe 10-15% of the U.S. populace might know a new Drake song that "hits it big", and that might be overestimating.  Not to mention that people in Brazil, Japan, South Africa, etc. all knew Michael Jackson.  I'm guessing his music doesn't cross borders as well (except between his native Canada and the U.S.).

[kenarmy]

no. I love both, but Drake doing better commercially in some ways /=/ eclipsing Mj. Are we going to remember "What's Next" in 10 more years or "Billie Jean"? Most of you probably don't even know the former and it recently came out.

[kevinb1994]

No.

Why's that, you ask?

Weird Al actually making a career (for a time, during the 80s) off of a couple of parodies of MJ's songs.

You can probably guess the two parodies.

[Rothman]

The only reason I know who Drake is is because of his friendship with John Calipari.

I was coached by John Calipari.

[formulanone]

Actually, I'm just sort of impressed that there's someone out there with that many Number One hits in this day and age. I figured it would have been Taylor Swift or Beyoncé, but then again, George Strait has 45 in his genre.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30FTr6G53VU

Listening to this, it's clear Coltrane was pretty damn talented.

I'll just keep this here because John Coltrane doesn't get enough mentions!

[US71]

Who?

[hotdogPi]

It's just a duck.

[thspfc]

The only reason I know who Drake is is because of his friendship with John Calipari.

I was coached by John Calipari.

Where?

[Henry]

I came across an interesting debate online, basically about whether Michael Jackson or Drake is the #1 artist of all time.

Based on what?
Elvis has the most #1 songs
The Beatles had the most songs on the top 40 at one time
The Eagles have the biggest selling album

Between those two, mayyyybe Michael Jackson. Drake shouldn't even been in the top 500.

I didn't even know who Drake was until I looked it up because of this thread.

On the other side of the coin, the greatest female singer category has been a tossup with Mariah Carey, Whitney Houston and Aretha Franklin each laying claim to that title. Whoever gets it will have just as tall an order to surpass, just like MJ (and Elvis before him) did.

[Rothman]

The only reason I know who Drake is is because of his friendship with John Calipari.

I was coached by John Calipari.

Where?

UMass.

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Summer basketball camp.