Missing US highway signage

[J N Winkler]

It matters to KDOT (which wanted the designation )to the point that it's posted above the U.S. 54 shields in some parts of Wichita (although I think that's in anticipation of moving U.S. 54 to a proposed northwest bypass and on to K-254 someday).

Where in Wichita is US 400 posted above US 54?  I personally can't remember seeing any such sign installations within the city limits (and Kellogg, incidentally, has a number of pull-throughs with just a US 54 shield).

KDOT did moot the idea of moving US 54 off its current alignment and onto the Northwest Bypass, but almost nobody in Wichita liked that idea and the plan is now dead.  The Northwest Bypass is being developed under a 254-87 (route K-254, county 87 = Sedgwick) designation rather than a 54-87 one.

I think Cimarron itself may be responsible for the signage and why would Cimarron care about U.S. 400? I think it's the same deal in Garden City where for years, the "Business" tab didn't appear anywhere on Fulton Street (Business 50) except at junctions. Even now, the business route signage for 50 and 83 as well as for K-156 is pretty inconsistent inside the city limits. Heck, if KDOT had it's way and Garden City wasn't paying for the signs, they may have added a "Business 400" to the whole deal.

I don't think either city is to blame for the signing irregularities.  KDOT is responsible for state route signing in cities, even on streets which are signed as state routes but are otherwise within the jurisdiction of cities.  I think what is going on here is that the signing is handled at district level and the district office is far from the purists in Topeka.

[apeman33]

It matters to KDOT (which wanted the designation )to the point that it's posted above the U.S. 54 shields in some parts of Wichita (although I think that's in anticipation of moving U.S. 54 to a proposed northwest bypass and on to K-254 someday).

Where in Wichita is US 400 posted above US 54?  I personally can't remember seeing any such sign installations within the city limits (and Kellogg, incidentally, has a number of pull-throughs with just a US 54 shield).

KDOT did moot the idea of moving US 54 off its current alignment and onto the Northwest Bypass, but almost nobody in Wichita liked that idea and the plan is now dead.  The Northwest Bypass is being developed under a 254-87 (route K-254, county 87 = Sedgwick) designation rather than a 54-87 one.

I think Cimarron itself may be responsible for the signage and why would Cimarron care about U.S. 400? I think it's the same deal in Garden City where for years, the "Business" tab didn't appear anywhere on Fulton Street (Business 50) except at junctions. Even now, the business route signage for 50 and 83 as well as for K-156 is pretty inconsistent inside the city limits. Heck, if KDOT had it's way and Garden City wasn't paying for the signs, they may have added a "Business 400" to the whole deal.

I don't think either city is to blame for the signing irregularities.  KDOT is responsible for state route signing in cities, even on streets which are signed as state routes but are otherwise within the jurisdiction of cities.  I think what is going on here is that the signing is handled at district level and the district office is far from the purists in Topeka.

The newest exits off Maize and Tyler roads on the west side of Wichita for one. Maize Road is the exit to my friend's house, so I see that one every time. I haven't seen yet if 400 is above 54 at any of the new exits between Woodlawn and Rock.

Edit: Proof that I'm not crazy!

According to Richie, that's the one off Tyler.

[Bickendan]

Technically speaking. Post-2002, it should be Route 100, but instead, Hist US 30 is taking up the signage.

[US71]

OR 100

Isn't it only Highway 100, not Route 100?

Doesn't Highway 100 = Route 100 ? 

[NE2]

Technically speaking. Post-2002, it should be Route 100, but instead, Hist US 30 is taking up the signage.

Except that ODOT hasn't defined a Route 100.

Doesn't Highway 100 = Route 100 ? 

Not in Oregon. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_highways_in_Oregon#Highways_and_routes

[xonhulu]

Also recall that Hwy 100 is applied to all of the discontinuous segments of the Historic Highway, and three of those (Cascade Locks, Hood River, and Mosier-The Dalles) were already signed as US 30 before 2002, so designating that Highway as OR 100 would've forced removing or cosigning US 30 on those and resulted in a state route with 4 discontinuous segments.  Probably why it didn't get the route 100 and possibly a reason for the HIST 30 signage, although that's not what I read in the HCRH Commission minutes as being the reason.

[Bickendan]

Technically speaking. Post-2002, it should be Route 100, but instead, Hist US 30 is taking up the signage.

Except that ODOT hasn't defined a Route 100.

Doesn't Highway 100 = Route 100 ? 

Not in Oregon. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_highways_in_Oregon#Highways_and_routes

Yes it has. It's on the internal maps -- and a quick look now implies that Hwy 100 is now US 30. http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/TD/TDATA/rics/docs/NumRouteMap_enl.pdf?ga=t

[NE2]

Technically speaking. Post-2002, it should be Route 100, but instead, Hist US 30 is taking up the signage.

Except that ODOT hasn't defined a Route 100.

Yes it has. It's on the internal maps -- and a quick look now implies that Hwy 100 is now US 30. http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/TD/TDATA/rics/docs/NumRouteMap_enl.pdf?ga=t

Which internal maps? I don't see OR 100 on:
http://egov.oregon.gov/ODOT/TD/TDATA/gis/docs/citymaps/Troutdale.pdf
http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/TD/TDATA/gis/docs/countymaps/Mult2.pdf
http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/TD/TDATA/gis/docs/districtmaps/dist2c.pdf

[Bickendan]

I didn't say OR 100. I said Hwy 100. Which the map I linked to shows; which the second map you linked to shows; which the third map you linked to shows.

Per 2002 route numbering, Hwy 100 should be OR 100, but remained signed only with the Historic Columbia River Hwy shields until Hist. US 30 got signed onto Hwy 100 last year. And, as far as I can recall, US 30 hasn't been signed on I-84 between exits 17 and 35, even though it's officially routed there.

[NE2]

US 30 mysteriously vanishes from I-84 between Troutdale and exit 35... but that's because OR 100's gone to the costume ball as Hist US 30. (US 30's really on the freeway down by the river, not up in the hills by the waterfalls)

I didn't say OR 100. I said Hwy 100.

[TheStranger]

US 30 mysteriously vanishes from I-84 between Troutdale and exit 35... but that's because OR 100's gone to the costume ball as Hist US 30. (US 30's really on the freeway down by the river, not up in the hills by the waterfalls)

I didn't say OR 100. I said Hwy 100.

Oregon has a separate system for signed routes and internal highway designations, very similar to California's 1934-1964 legislative route number vs. signed route number divergence (though not organized the same way, IIRC) -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_(Oregon)

[NE2]

I know that...

[Bickendan]

US 30 mysteriously vanishes from I-84 between Troutdale and exit 35... but that's because OR 100's gone to the costume ball as Hist US 30. (US 30's really on the freeway down by the river, not up in the hills by the waterfalls)

I didn't say OR 100. I said Hwy 100.

Meaning, per the 2002 establishments of routes in Oregon, the portion of Hwy 100 where US 30 is NOT routed onto (from Troutdale to I-84 exit 35) should have been signed in the field as OR 100. Instead, eight years of no signage go by (with US 30 NOT being signed on I-84 from Exits 17-35, where it IS routed) until last year, when Hist. US 30 is created. Meanwhile, US 30 is still defined as being concurrent with I-84 through the western portion of the Gorge, and Hwy 100 is still defined without an external route number. Therefore, Hwy 100 -> OR 100 with Hist. US 30 superceding that signage.

[corco]

Meaning, per the 2002 establishments of routes in Oregon, the portion of Hwy 100 where US 30 is NOT routed onto (from Troutdale to I-84 exit 35) should have been signed in the field as OR 100. Instead, eight years of no signage go by (with US 30 NOT being signed on I-84 from Exits 17-35, where it IS routed) until last year, when Hist. US 30 is created. Meanwhile, US 30 is still defined as being concurrent with I-84 through the western portion of the Gorge, and Hwy 100 is still defined without an external route number. Therefore, Hwy 100 -> OR 100 with Hist. US 30 superceding that signage.

I can't remember when I researched this in-depth, but I know I did at some point and have been operating under the assumption that this is correct for several years now.

[NE2]

Meaning, per the 2002 establishments of routes in Oregon, the portion of Hwy 100 where US 30 is NOT routed onto (from Troutdale to I-84 exit 35) should have been signed in the field as OR 100. Instead, eight years of no signage go by (with US 30 NOT being signed on I-84 from Exits 17-35, where it IS routed) until last year, when Hist. US 30 is created. Meanwhile, US 30 is still defined as being concurrent with I-84 through the western portion of the Gorge, and Hwy 100 is still defined without an external route number. Therefore, Hwy 100 -> OR 100 with Hist. US 30 superceding that signage.

ODOT defined each new route individually; you can see the different dates of establishment in http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/HWY/TRAFFIC-ROADWAY/docs/pdf/Descriptions_of_US_and_Oregon_Routes.pdf. There was no general order that Highway x should become Route x.

[codyg1985]

I'm surprised Arkansas has not been mentioned yet in this thread. US 63 following I-40 and I-55 anyone?

What about US 67/70 following I-30 through southwest Little Rock, or US 65/167 following I-30 through downtown LR?

That seems to be the exception rather than the rule.

[Bickendan]

Meaning, per the 2002 establishments of routes in Oregon, the portion of Hwy 100 where US 30 is NOT routed onto (from Troutdale to I-84 exit 35) should have been signed in the field as OR 100. Instead, eight years of no signage go by (with US 30 NOT being signed on I-84 from Exits 17-35, where it IS routed) until last year, when Hist. US 30 is created. Meanwhile, US 30 is still defined as being concurrent with I-84 through the western portion of the Gorge, and Hwy 100 is still defined without an external route number. Therefore, Hwy 100 -> OR 100 with Hist. US 30 superceding that signage.

ODOT defined each new route individually; you can see the different dates of establishment in http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/HWY/TRAFFIC-ROADWAY/docs/pdf/Descriptions_of_US_and_Oregon_Routes.pdf. There was no general order that Highway x should become Route x.

As of 2002, Hwy xx without a route number became OR xx, unless OR xx already existed. In that case, Hwy xx became OR 5xx, with the exception of Hwy 69 becoming OR 569 after briefly existing as OR 69.

[NE2]

Meaning, per the 2002 establishments of routes in Oregon, the portion of Hwy 100 where US 30 is NOT routed onto (from Troutdale to I-84 exit 35) should have been signed in the field as OR 100. Instead, eight years of no signage go by (with US 30 NOT being signed on I-84 from Exits 17-35, where it IS routed) until last year, when Hist. US 30 is created. Meanwhile, US 30 is still defined as being concurrent with I-84 through the western portion of the Gorge, and Hwy 100 is still defined without an external route number. Therefore, Hwy 100 -> OR 100 with Hist. US 30 superceding that signage.

ODOT defined each new route individually; you can see the different dates of establishment in http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/HWY/TRAFFIC-ROADWAY/docs/pdf/Descriptions_of_US_and_Oregon_Routes.pdf. There was no general order that Highway x should become Route x.

As of 2002, Hwy xx without a route number became OR xx, unless OR xx already existed. In that case, Hwy xx became OR 5xx, with the exception of Hwy 69 becoming OR 569 after briefly existing as OR 69.

For the most part, but a few highways such as 100 and 372 did not get route numbers.

[Bickendan]

Never having been on Hwy 372, I can only conditionally agree, as Hwy 100 was at least signed with special (unnumbered Historic Columbia River Highway shields until the Hist. US 30 shields went up. Makes me wonder if Hwy 372 had a special shield as well, but I doubt it.

[xonhulu]

Never having been on Hwy 372, I can only conditionally agree, as Hwy 100 was at least signed with special (unnumbered Historic Columbia River Highway shields until the Hist. US 30 shields went up. Makes me wonder if Hwy 372 had a special shield as well, but I doubt it.

I don't ever remember seeing any special signage on Hwy 372, and I've been on it several times over the last 3 decades.

It mystifies me that they designated routes on so many less significant of the unsigned highways but not 372, one that actually connects to a popular destination in the Bachelor ski facilities.  It's also especially strange since it has appeared as a State Route on the official state highway map twice -- a couple of years in the 90's, and in the latest edition (2011-2013) -- when it has never officially been a State Route.

As for the point that started this discussion: while US 30 is missing from the reassurance assemblies between Troutdale and exit 35, I think this was just an oversight when those shields were replaced awhile back and not intentional.  30 is still signed at the ramps of nearly all the interchanges through this stretch.  I certainly don't think it was because the route was considered to be shifted onto the historic highway.  In fact, the brand new signage at the Troutdale on-ramp specifically shows US 30 as being coincident with I-84 and different than HIST 30: