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Alabama

Started by codyg1985, November 02, 2011, 07:44:29 AM

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rcm195

May I ask, with respects to exit 39 on I-22, is the changes on both the East and west side of the interchange or just one side?


bdmoss88


Charles2

Now, if the distance signs along I-22 could only refer to logical locations like Birmingham, Tupelo and Memphis...

rcm195

Agreed. To my knowledge, the first distance sign with Birmingham is not until you reach Carbon Hill.

codyg1985

ALDOT has public commentary underway for the Linden Bypass, which will form what I assume is the four-lane upgrade of US 43 between Tuscaloosa and Thomasville. Interestingly enough, if you go to the Project Map section, it shows bypasses and upgrades to AL 69 between Moundville and Linden, which tells me that ALDOT eventually intends to relocate US 43 between Tuscaloosa and Linden onto AL 69.

https://volkert.maps.arcgis.com/apps/MapSeries/index.html?appid=d57d4c6975ab4eaabed29f86ec915db4
Cody Goodman
Huntsville, AL, United States

froggie

I suspect what they'll do is use that extension of AL 69 South over to the bypass as the connecting piece for both US 43 and AL 69.  Bypass south of that connection is US 43 and bypass north of that connection is AL 69.

asdfjkll

Quote from: codyg1985 on November 08, 2021, 10:41:48 AM
ALDOT has public commentary underway for the Linden Bypass, which will form what I assume is the four-lane upgrade of US 43 between Tuscaloosa and Thomasville. Interestingly enough, if you go to the Project Map section, it shows bypasses and upgrades to AL 69 between Moundville and Linden, which tells me that ALDOT eventually intends to relocate US 43 between Tuscaloosa and Linden onto AL 69.

https://volkert.maps.arcgis.com/apps/MapSeries/index.html?appid=d57d4c6975ab4eaabed29f86ec915db4
There is also a bypass planned of Greensboro to the west and a realignment around US-80 so that SR-69 no longer has that weird concurrency with US-80 for about a half mile. I am not sure if there will be a interchange built where US-80 intersects SR-69 by Prairieville (which is where the realignment south of US-80 will tie into). Moundville's bypass will be going around the east side, this was supposed to be built back in the 2000's at the conclusion of the last 4-lane project north of Moundville but there was no funding until now. Another corridor that is planned to be built is a new 4-lane from Fayette to I-22, there's still no news on where it will go. I personally would like to see SR-13 4-laned from Tuscaloosa to Spruce Pine, and now with the new federal infrastructure funding passed it could possibly happen with or without Rebuild Alabama funds.

cbalducc

What is that unfinished Highway going southeast out of Spruce Pine?

formulanone

Quote from: cbalducc on November 08, 2021, 07:47:17 PM
What is that unfinished Highway going southeast out of Spruce Pine?

I believe that's the new alignment for State Route 13. > https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=21151.0

Much of Alabama 13 is a narrow, winding two-lane route that would difficult to widen.

Here's a drone flyover of the unfinished bridges and current state of those alignments:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0utJ5yVZVCA

Tom958

Quote from: asdfjkll on November 08, 2021, 06:35:17 PM
Quote from: codyg1985 on November 08, 2021, 10:41:48 AM
ALDOT has public commentary underway for the Linden Bypass, which will form what I assume is the four-lane upgrade of US 43 between Tuscaloosa and Thomasville. Interestingly enough, if you go to the Project Map section, it shows bypasses and upgrades to AL 69 between Moundville and Linden, which tells me that ALDOT eventually intends to relocate US 43 between Tuscaloosa and Linden onto AL 69.

https://volkert.maps.arcgis.com/apps/MapSeries/index.html?appid=d57d4c6975ab4eaabed29f86ec915db4
There is also a bypass planned of Greensboro to the west and a realignment around US-80 so that SR-69 no longer has that weird concurrency with US-80 for about a half mile. I am not sure if there will be an interchange built where US-80 intersects SR-69 by Prairieville (which is where the realignment south of US-80 will tie into). Moundville's bypass will be going around the east side, this was supposed to be built back in the 2000s at the conclusion of the last 4-lane project north of Moundville but there was no funding until now.

The idea of improving AL 69 into part of the primary route between Mobile and Tuscaloosa bothers me. We had some discussion in another forum of Governor Ivey's announcement of the intent to four-lane US 43 and, while I see it as having such a low priority as to ensure it'll never happen, if it did, I'd expect it to pass through the larger town of Demopolis and to enter the Tuscaloosa area via I-59-20, which would also require less widening mileage.

However, the scheme to upgrade AL 69 would make more sense if the idea was to minimize any need to four-lane the whole corridor by improving the performance of the relevant two-lane highways.

cbalducc

Quote from: formulanone on November 08, 2021, 08:40:11 PM
Quote from: cbalducc on November 08, 2021, 07:47:17 PM
What is that unfinished Highway going southeast out of Spruce Pine?
Why has that gone unfinished?

I believe that's the new alignment for State Route 13. > https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=21151.0

Much of Alabama 13 is a narrow, winding two-lane route that would difficult to widen.

Here's a drone flyover of the unfinished bridges and current state of those alignments:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0utJ5yVZVCA

formulanone

Quote from: cbalducc on November 08, 2021, 07:47:17 PM
Why has that gone unfinished?

No money; that bypass might serve 30,000 people and truck traffic.

cbalducc

Quote from: formulanone on November 09, 2021, 01:27:11 PM
Quote from: cbalducc on November 08, 2021, 07:47:17 PM
Why has that gone unfinished?

No money; that bypass might serve 30,000 people and truck traffic.
Alabama has a habit of starting highway projects and then abandoning them. How do they fund highway construction?

BamaZeus


rcm195


asdfjkll

Looks like ALDOT will be taking public comments soon for the rest of the proposed Thomasville-Tuscaloosa 4-lane corridor not covered in the Linden bypass scope/meetings. Just noticed today that the new highway was added to the public involvement meeting list at https://www.dot.state.al.us/news/publicinvolvement.html with the "Coming Soon" as the posted date.

formulanone

Quote from: cbalducc on November 09, 2021, 03:49:43 PM
Quote from: formulanone on November 09, 2021, 01:27:11 PM
Quote from: cbalducc on November 08, 2021, 07:47:17 PM
Why has that gone unfinished?

No money; that bypass might serve 30,000 people and truck traffic.
Alabama has a habit of starting highway projects and then abandoning them. How do they fund highway construction?

With some of the lowest gas taxes in the southeast, I'm not sure how...though it was bumped up a bit in 2019 (6 more cents/gallon) with 2 more cents each following year, as part of the Rebuild Alabama Act.

After driving through Haleyville and seeing so many closed/abandoned storefronts, I can't help but wonder if locals were concerned the bypass might have a negative impact on local businesses.


Tom958

#567
H/t to codyg1985 for finding this article

https://www.westalabamawatchman.com/four-lane-project-boon-or-death-knell-for-demopolis/

about the mayor of Demopolis' shock and horror at the supposed US 43 widening actually bypassing Demopolis via AL 69. The article seems to imply that, while engineering studies concluded that the AL 69 route was cheaper, no economic comparison was made between the two corridors. My own first impulse was that it'd be very desirable to reinforce Demopolis as a service center for the area so people could avoid going to Meridian, Selma, or Tuscaloosa for certain needs, and the mayor of Demopolis certainly agrees with that. But is there any analytical evidence for it?

As it stands, the new corridor would cross US 80 near Prarieville, about seven miles from downtown Demopolis, far enough to make it prohibitively expensive to extend water and sewer to the area. However, it appears to me that the corridor could be moved about three miles closer, to Alfalfa, by running the new corridor along US 43 to the north end of the Old Spring Hill bypass, then building eight to twelve miles on new terrain to AL 69 north of Prarieville. This would put the new junction only barely outside the current Demopolis city limits. Something to think about, IMO.

Doing this would also require extending the Linden bypass to meet US 43 north of town instead of forcing US 43 traffic to use the old road through downtown. IMO, that should've been done anyway.

codyg1985

I think it is a shame that they are going so far away from Demopolis since it seems to be one of the larger cities in the area. It won't do local folks within a 50 mile radius of Demopolis much good to use the new road if it doesn't take them to Demopolis.

This sort of reminds me of the issue with future I-57 in northeast Arkansas potentially completely bypassing Pocahontas. I am not sure a final decision has been made on that corridor yet.
Cody Goodman
Huntsville, AL, United States

Tom958

Quote from: codyg1985 on December 08, 2021, 05:19:21 PM
I think it is a shame that they are going so far away from Demopolis since it seems to be one of the larger cities in the area. It won't do local folks within a 50 mile radius of Demopolis much good to use the new road if it doesn't take them to Demopolis.

My idea would make it easier to get to Demopolis from Greensboro and from Linden and points south. It wouldn't help Forkland or Eutaw, but it's not much further to Tuscaloosa from Eutaw, anyway. Nice job, Tom!  :clap:

asdfjkll

West Alabama Highway Public Involvement map is up and running at https://gismapping.volkert.com/portal/apps/MapSeries/index.html?appid=0e3d1e3ecd23408ab29298515437cfba !

Some observations from when I looked at it this morning:
Bypasses around Dixons Mills, Moundville to the east, Greensboro to the west, built to dual carriageway standards w/ intersections similar to Linden bypass. Also, a deviation swinging to the northeast at Gallion so it intersects US-80 uninterrupted in a giant 4-way intersection (similar to the giant 4-way stop where US 278 meets SR 13 and SR 5 in Natural Bridge). There is also a railroad overpass planned at the existing at-grade railroad crossing with Norfolk Southern prior to the deviation split from the existing SR 69. I personally would have put the largest roundabout in state history here as an interim intersection to stop folks from getting T-boned if someone blows through the stop sign at 70+ mph. Note how the right of way flares off diagonally from the new 4-lane as it approaches US-80 on both sides, this probably suggests that there are provisions in place to install a diamond interchange in the future as traffic demand grows.

The rest of the road is your typical dual carriageway build with existing US 43 (SR 69 north of Linden) forming one of the two carriageways. Usually there are additional crossovers w/ turn lanes by themselves if there are no side streets for long lengths, but it doesn't show them in most instances on the current map. Also unlike the Linden Bypass ArcGIS map it does not show proposed traffic lane markings and legends.

Tom958

#571
Quote from: asdfjkll on December 12, 2021, 10:31:33 AM
West Alabama Highway Public Involvement map is up and running at https://gismapping.volkert.com/portal/apps/MapSeries/index.html?appid=0e3d1e3ecd23408ab29298515437cfba !

Thanks!

QuoteSome observations from when I looked at it this morning:
Bypasses around Dixons Mills, Moundville to the east, Greensboro to the west, built to dual carriageway standards w/ intersections similar to Linden bypass. Also, a deviation swinging to the northeast at Gallion so it intersects US-80 uninterrupted in a giant 4-way intersection (similar to the giant 4-way stop where US 278 meets SR 13 and SR 5 in Natural Bridge). There is also a railroad overpass planned at the existing at-grade railroad crossing with Norfolk Southern prior to the deviation split from the existing SR 69. I personally would have put the largest roundabout in state history here as an interim intersection to stop folks from getting T-boned if someone blows through the stop sign at 70+ mph. Note how the right of way flares off diagonally from the new 4-lane as it approaches US-80 on both sides, this probably suggests that there are provisions in place to install a diamond interchange in the future as traffic demand grows.

I find it odd that the future interchange is oriented north-south. Unless I-85/14 gets built, surely east-west volumes will be greater. In the meantime, surely a traffic signal will be provided even if the warrant for it is marginal (the 2019 traffic volumes on US 80 are 7000ish to the west of Gallion and 5000ish to the east). I'd actually prefer a roundabout myself if I had more faith in the motoring public.

QuoteThe rest of the road is your typical dual carriageway build with existing US 43 (SR 69 north of Linden) forming one of the two carriageways. Usually there are additional crossovers w/ turn lanes by themselves if there are no side streets for long lengths, but it doesn't show them in most instances on the current map. Also unlike the Linden Bypass ArcGIS map it does not show proposed traffic lane markings and legends.

One of the things I like about Alabama highways is how dualized highways such as this one often have luxuriously wide medians and independent roadway profiles (though the new terrain sections are conservatively designed). I don't see anything but standard 54-foot medians here.

Tom958

Double post, days later. Sorry.

I've conducted a cursory examination of the entire corridor, and I have a few observations to make:

Aside from the few new-location segments, most of the corridor consists of a new roadway added a standard median width, likely 54 or 64 feet, away from the existing roadway. The two roadways swap sides a whopping nineteen times! I didn't see any place where the existing roadway was to be reconstructed to eliminate deficiencies in the profile (they do that a lot in Georgia lately, and it strikes me as a huge waste of money in most cases). It'll be interesting to see whether the new roadways will be clones of the old or whether they'll have noticeably smoother vertical alignments.

There are a few places where what I'd call an excessive number of building demolitions are proposed. The worst is just north of the Dixons Mills bypass. Twenty nine structures are marked for demolition; on Streetview, most appear to be well-kept middle class homes, hardly the kind of squalor that might invite the rural equivalent of urban renewal. I have to question why this was done rather than (expensively) extending the bypass for a couple more miles or (cheaply) reducing the cross section through the area. I dunno... maybe conversations with the affected people revealed that they'd prefer selling out to remaining. Or maybe ALDOT is just being lazy.

Actually, at the risk of short-circuiting my narrative, I suspect that ALDOT really doesn't want to do this project due to having other priorities, resents having to pull Governor Ivey's little red wagon on this, and is therefore being passive-aggressive by not putting enough effort into design and development. As it happens, I agree the project should be of extremely low priority, but that's no excuse for not doing a good job with the preliminary work. If that's what's happening. I could be wrong.

I'm already on record as thinking that the corridor should incorporate a ten-to-twelve-mile new terrain segment so it'd pass much closer to Demopolis. Doing this would likely shorten the route by a couple of miles. It pains me to think that the current scheme is largely driven by the simplicity of dualizing existing highways as much as possible.

Whether or not my new-terrain idea comes to pass, I think that the Linden bypass needs to connect to US 43 north of town so US 43 traffic wouldn't be forced to take the old road.

Most of the relatively few intersections are conventional in design, but there are a couple of places with RTOs and implied RCUTs. One of them is on the Greensboro bypass, with four RTOs and three median breaks.

Finally, while I've already expressed my admiration for the wide-median stretches found on many Alabama divided highways, that's not the only way to achieve some variety. In Georgia, after decades of relentlessly sticking with a uniform 44 foot median width on rural highways like this, recently GDOT has gone to 32 feet or even, in at least one case, a 24-foot curbed median. As lightly traveled as this corridor would be, I think this would be a good place to try a narrower median width, especially if it's balanced with greater widths in some areas for variety.

codyg1985

#573
More info on the "West Alabama Highway..."

It will be a design-build project, the first in ALDOT's history. They are going to solicit the entire 70 mile project as one design-build project (except for the Linden bypass). I find it interesting that they are going at this with one go. A couple of interesting tidbits from this PDF:

- The cost of the project, in full, is estimated to be approximately $775,000,000. Funding for this project is secured through state funds only. No federal funds are anticipated for the Project.
- Complete the Project on or before December 31, 2027.

I am honestly surprised they have money set aside for a project of this magnitude.

The RFQ is located here.
Cody Goodman
Huntsville, AL, United States

Tom958

Quote from: codyg1985 on December 29, 2021, 12:18:38 PM
More info on the "West Alabama Highway..."

I am honestly surprised they have money set aside for a project of this magnitude.

None of this makes any sense. I swear, it's as though the whole of Alabama's government is pulling out all the stops to complete Governor Ivey's pet project before she dies. I don't understand how it's even possible, either politically or from a governmental procedure perspective.

A $775 million state contribution that assured completion of the new Mobile bridge by the end of 2027 would be startling. The same for a project that's utterly suited to phased construction is incomprehensible.




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