Michigan Notes

[roadman65]

https://goo.gl/maps/JFncZzF6j3kihiA29
I see the Left Exit to M-25 in Port Huron since at least 2013 is been relocated to the right.

Of course I'll bet that the flag and other warning signs won't deter cars that pay attention to the GPS from entering Canada. As a toll collector I will assume that the Border Agents in Canada have to deal with ignorance constantly and have to deal with " Oh I didn't want to come this way, my GPS sent me here."

[JREwing78]

As a toll collector I will assume that the Border Agents in Canada have to deal with ignorance constantly and have to deal with " Oh I didn't want to come this way, my GPS sent me here."

I wouldn't want to find out the hard way what happens in that situation. I don't routinely carry my passport, and don't know anyone who does. Assuming the Canadians get you headed back across the bridge, then you have to convince the US Border Patrol you're a citizen and should be allowed back in. If you're suspicious looking or they don't buy your "I made a wrong turn" excuse, or you don't have a passport, that could be an unpleasant experience.

[bulldog1979]

As a toll collector I will assume that the Border Agents in Canada have to deal with ignorance constantly and have to deal with " Oh I didn't want to come this way, my GPS sent me here."

I wouldn't want to find out the hard way what happens in that situation. I don't routinely carry my passport, and don't know anyone who does. Assuming the Canadians get you headed back across the bridge, then you have to convince the US Border Patrol you're a citizen and should be allowed back in. If you're suspicious looking or they don't buy your "I made a wrong turn" excuse, or you don't have a passport, that could be an unpleasant experience.

That new configuration opened in October 2012. The signs with the flags went up 6 months later.

The bridge toll eastbound is paid in the US, so that's where cars were getting turned back around, not across the border.

[triplemultiplex]

Assuming the Canadians get you headed back across the bridge, then you have to convince the US Border Patrol you're a citizen and should be allowed back in. If you're suspicious looking or they don't buy your "I made a wrong turn" excuse, or you don't have a passport, that could be an unpleasant experience.

With all the gizmos they have on the US side, they know goddamn well which vehicles got turned back at Canada customs.  Each vehicle making a "u-turn" at Canada is going to be flagged immediately and followed by cameras and software to US customs and the agents alerted when it's their turn at the port of entry.  I'm sure 95% of the time, the gizmos tell them to wave that car thru.

They're not going to waste their time at a busy checkpoint with idiots who can't read a sign.

[wanderer2575]

Crews have been building the steel structure for the new Second Avenue bridge over I-94 in downtown Detroit (part of the I-94 Modernization project).  This will be the first network tied arch bridge in Michigan.  The structure is being built in a Wayne State University parking lot on the south side of the freeway between Second and Third avenues.

I-94 will be closed for seven days while the new bridge structure is rolled into place on modular transports.  This is anticipated to begin Sunday, July 10th.  MDOT has scheduled a virtual open house this Thursday, June 16th, at 11:30am to discuss the bridge slide.  Here is a link to the MDOT announcement, which itself includes a link to the Zoom meeting:
https://www.michigan.gov/mdot/news-outreach/pressreleases/2022/06/07/mdot-virtual-open-house-june-16-to-discuss--second-avenue-bridge-slide-over-i-94-in-detroit

I drove down yesterday and got a couple photos from across the freeway; I could not get up close.  First photo is looking south across the westbound freeway lanes from Third Avenue.  (The Third Avenue bridge was demolished and removed last year, and will not be replaced.)



Second photo is looking southwest across the freeway from Second Avenue.  The upright rebar is the abutment wall where the north end of the bridge will sit.

[nwi_navigator_1181]

I see lots of posts that spun off from my I-196 dilemma (which is now a nonstarter) regarding the best route to the UP - which correctly assumes that I'm using the Mighty Mac to enter (we're staying at St. Ignace). This piqued my interests, for a myriad of reasons. I'm trying to see if there's a better surface route between freeways than what I'm currently using.

We usually take M-55 east from US 131 north, taking M-66 north to continue on M-55 east to US 127 and going from there. I'm gonna take M-72 out of my personal running because I like the seamless segue from US 127 to I-75. I keep hearing about this "Lake City Bypass,"  but it's not obviously apparent on the map. I'd like to learn more about that.

There was a slight murmur about US 10. We actually took that route coming home, and thought it would be a good alternative. Unfortunately (at least on that day), we ran into a decent share of slowpokes, with only one passing zone in that 35 mile span near Evart (to be fair, M-55 has only one passing zone on our routing too). I'd be willing to give this another try, since US 127 is wide open right up to I-75.

With me paring it down to those two choices, which do you guys prefer? Thanks again for all the input.

[ChimpOnTheWheel]

I see lots of posts that spun off from my I-196 dilemma (which is now a nonstarter) regarding the best route to the UP - which correctly assumes that I'm using the Mighty Mac to enter (we're staying at St. Ignace). This piqued my interests, for a myriad of reasons. I'm trying to see if there's a better surface route between freeways than what I'm currently using.

We usually take M-55 east from US 131 north, taking M-66 north to continue on M-55 east to US 127 and going from there. I'm gonna take M-72 out of my personal running because I like the seamless segue from US 127 to I-75. I keep hearing about this "Lake City Bypass,"  but it's not obviously apparent on the map. I'd like to learn more about that.

There was a slight murmur about US 10. We actually took that route coming home, and thought it would be a good alternative. Unfortunately (at least on that day), we ran into a decent share of slowpokes, with only one passing zone in that 35 mile span near Evart (to be fair, M-55 has only one passing zone on our routing too). I'd be willing to give this another try, since US 127 is wide open right up to I-75.

With me paring it down to those two choices, which do you guys prefer? Thanks again for all the input.

I looked far and wide for different options other than M-55 and US 10 but there don't seem to be too many. Probably just stick with M-55.

M-46 appears to be a better route between US 131 and US 127 in my eyes.
(But then again, people going from Grand Rapids to Saginaw who would otherwise use US 131 -> M-46, end up using I-96 -> I-69 -> I-75 instead. Probably for good reason too.)

[Flint1979]

I see lots of posts that spun off from my I-196 dilemma (which is now a nonstarter) regarding the best route to the UP - which correctly assumes that I'm using the Mighty Mac to enter (we're staying at St. Ignace). This piqued my interests, for a myriad of reasons. I'm trying to see if there's a better surface route between freeways than what I'm currently using.

We usually take M-55 east from US 131 north, taking M-66 north to continue on M-55 east to US 127 and going from there. I'm gonna take M-72 out of my personal running because I like the seamless segue from US 127 to I-75. I keep hearing about this "Lake City Bypass,"  but it's not obviously apparent on the map. I'd like to learn more about that.

There was a slight murmur about US 10. We actually took that route coming home, and thought it would be a good alternative. Unfortunately (at least on that day), we ran into a decent share of slowpokes, with only one passing zone in that 35 mile span near Evart (to be fair, M-55 has only one passing zone on our routing too). I'd be willing to give this another try, since US 127 is wide open right up to I-75.

With me paring it down to those two choices, which do you guys prefer? Thanks again for all the input.

The Lake City Bypass is like this, when you are going east on M-55 and approaching M-66, make a left on M-66 and take it for about a mile to Lotan Road, make a right on Lotan and take that to Vandermeulen and make a left, take Vandermeulen back to M-55. The whole thing is about 9 or 10 miles and it's the same distance to just go through Lake City actually and most of the time it's about the same time but you're just in the country on Lotan and Vandermeulen or in a tiny city (Lake City) on M-55/66.

And since you asked I would take I-196 to US-131 to M-55, take the Lake City bypass and take M-55 to US-127 then to I-75. The speed limit on 131 is 75 mph starting several miles north of GR and M-55 to the Lake City bypass back to M-55 to US-127 will get you to I-75 and the Mackinac Bridge the quickest. US-127 and I-75 are also both 75 mph in the areas you'll be using them except for the Mackinac Bridge which is 45 mph.

US-10 and M-72 will take you awhile, M-46 is a two lane highway like M-55 that will take you longer to get to US-127 than M-55 will. It's 33 miles and 36 minutes via M-55 and the LCBP back to M-55. It's 42 miles and 46 minutes to take M-46 between US-131 and US-127.

[Flint1979]

I see lots of posts that spun off from my I-196 dilemma (which is now a nonstarter) regarding the best route to the UP - which correctly assumes that I'm using the Mighty Mac to enter (we're staying at St. Ignace). This piqued my interests, for a myriad of reasons. I'm trying to see if there's a better surface route between freeways than what I'm currently using.

We usually take M-55 east from US 131 north, taking M-66 north to continue on M-55 east to US 127 and going from there. I'm gonna take M-72 out of my personal running because I like the seamless segue from US 127 to I-75. I keep hearing about this "Lake City Bypass,"  but it's not obviously apparent on the map. I'd like to learn more about that.

There was a slight murmur about US 10. We actually took that route coming home, and thought it would be a good alternative. Unfortunately (at least on that day), we ran into a decent share of slowpokes, with only one passing zone in that 35 mile span near Evart (to be fair, M-55 has only one passing zone on our routing too). I'd be willing to give this another try, since US 127 is wide open right up to I-75.

With me paring it down to those two choices, which do you guys prefer? Thanks again for all the input.

I looked far and wide for different options other than M-55 and US 10 but there don't seem to be too many. Probably just stick with M-55.

M-46 appears to be a better route between US 131 and US 127 in my eyes.
(But then again, people going from Grand Rapids to Saginaw who would otherwise use US 131 -> M-46, end up using I-96 -> I-69 -> I-75 instead. Probably for good reason too.)

It depends on where in Saginaw and Grand Rapids you are coming from and going to. If you are in Saginaw Township I-75 is on the other side of town and M-46 to US-131 is the best way to go. I-75 is almost never a good option if you are coming from or going to the west in Saginaw, M-13 connects to I-69 and shaves off 10 miles or so going into the city of Saginaw it's always the best way to go to get to I-69 going westbound, going eastbound on I-69 you'd take I-75 to I-475 to I-69. M-57 is sometimes a better route, it goes through less towns with Carson City and Greenville really being the only two and you can bypass St. Charles by taking Merrill Road off of Swan Creek Road. There are a few different ways to get between Saginaw and Grand Rapids but coming from where I live in Saginaw Township M-46 to US-131 is pretty much still the best way. Swan Creek Road will bypass several towns along M-46 except for Alma which at that point it's called Lincoln Road but you'll bypass Shields, Hemlock, Merrill, Wheeler, Breckenridge, St. Louis and Edmore because you'd just make a right on M-66 and take that back to M-46 it becomes Lake Montcalm Road in Montcalm County.

[Terry Shea]

I see lots of posts that spun off from my I-196 dilemma (which is now a nonstarter) regarding the best route to the UP - which correctly assumes that I'm using the Mighty Mac to enter (we're staying at St. Ignace). This piqued my interests, for a myriad of reasons. I'm trying to see if there's a better surface route between freeways than what I'm currently using.

We usually take M-55 east from US 131 north, taking M-66 north to continue on M-55 east to US 127 and going from there. I'm gonna take M-72 out of my personal running because I like the seamless segue from US 127 to I-75. I keep hearing about this "Lake City Bypass,"  but it's not obviously apparent on the map. I'd like to learn more about that.

There was a slight murmur about US 10. We actually took that route coming home, and thought it would be a good alternative. Unfortunately (at least on that day), we ran into a decent share of slowpokes, with only one passing zone in that 35 mile span near Evart (to be fair, M-55 has only one passing zone on our routing too). I'd be willing to give this another try, since US 127 is wide open right up to I-75.

With me paring it down to those two choices, which do you guys prefer? Thanks again for all the input.

I looked far and wide for different options other than M-55 and US 10 but there don't seem to be too many. Probably just stick with M-55.

M-46 appears to be a better route between US 131 and US 127 in my eyes.
(But then again, people going from Grand Rapids to Saginaw who would otherwise use US 131 -> M-46, end up using I-96 -> I-69 -> I-75 instead. Probably for good reason too.)

It depends on where in Saginaw and Grand Rapids you are coming from and going to. If you are in Saginaw Township I-75 is on the other side of town and M-46 to US-131 is the best way to go. I-75 is almost never a good option if you are coming from or going to the west in Saginaw, M-13 connects to I-69 and shaves off 10 miles or so going into the city of Saginaw it's always the best way to go to get to I-69 going westbound, going eastbound on I-69 you'd take I-75 to I-475 to I-69. M-57 is sometimes a better route, it goes through less towns with Carson City and Greenville really being the only two and you can bypass St. Charles by taking Merrill Road off of Swan Creek Road. There are a few different ways to get between Saginaw and Grand Rapids but coming from where I live in Saginaw Township M-46 to US-131 is pretty much still the best way. Swan Creek Road will bypass several towns along M-46 except for Alma which at that point it's called Lincoln Road but you'll bypass Shields, Hemlock, Merrill, Wheeler, Breckenridge, St. Louis and Edmore because you'd just make a right on M-66 and take that back to M-46 it becomes Lake Montcalm Road in Montcalm County.

Are you drunk?

[JREwing78]

If I-69 wasn't under construction for much of the time you'd be on it, I-94 -> I-69 -> US-127 -> I-75 is not terribly slower and is almost all freeway (excepting the 15 miles or so of US-127 between St. Johns and Ithaca). This would be the optimal route in winter; the freeways get priority plowing and lake effect snow is minimal once you reach the I-69 corridor. If lake effect is particularly brutal, the Indiana Toll Road will get you away from it, and then it's I-69 north to US-127.

You could also opt for I-196 -> M-6 -> I-96 -> I-69 -> US-127 -> I-75, which is similar in drive time and distance outside of winter.

Michigan has a lot of good ways to head northwest - thank generations of tourists from Detroit, Flint, and so on for driving demand for good road mobility to the sunset side of the state. The connections pointed northeast are far less developed, with no freeways or divided 4-lane highways north of the Grand Rapids - Lansing - Flint line defined by I-96 and I-69 (excepting US-10, which is pointed the wrong way for Alpena traffic).

[Flint1979]

I see lots of posts that spun off from my I-196 dilemma (which is now a nonstarter) regarding the best route to the UP - which correctly assumes that I'm using the Mighty Mac to enter (we're staying at St. Ignace). This piqued my interests, for a myriad of reasons. I'm trying to see if there's a better surface route between freeways than what I'm currently using.

We usually take M-55 east from US 131 north, taking M-66 north to continue on M-55 east to US 127 and going from there. I'm gonna take M-72 out of my personal running because I like the seamless segue from US 127 to I-75. I keep hearing about this "Lake City Bypass,"  but it's not obviously apparent on the map. I'd like to learn more about that.

There was a slight murmur about US 10. We actually took that route coming home, and thought it would be a good alternative. Unfortunately (at least on that day), we ran into a decent share of slowpokes, with only one passing zone in that 35 mile span near Evart (to be fair, M-55 has only one passing zone on our routing too). I'd be willing to give this another try, since US 127 is wide open right up to I-75.

With me paring it down to those two choices, which do you guys prefer? Thanks again for all the input.

I looked far and wide for different options other than M-55 and US 10 but there don't seem to be too many. Probably just stick with M-55.

M-46 appears to be a better route between US 131 and US 127 in my eyes.
(But then again, people going from Grand Rapids to Saginaw who would otherwise use US 131 -> M-46, end up using I-96 -> I-69 -> I-75 instead. Probably for good reason too.)

It depends on where in Saginaw and Grand Rapids you are coming from and going to. If you are in Saginaw Township I-75 is on the other side of town and M-46 to US-131 is the best way to go. I-75 is almost never a good option if you are coming from or going to the west in Saginaw, M-13 connects to I-69 and shaves off 10 miles or so going into the city of Saginaw it's always the best way to go to get to I-69 going westbound, going eastbound on I-69 you'd take I-75 to I-475 to I-69. M-57 is sometimes a better route, it goes through less towns with Carson City and Greenville really being the only two and you can bypass St. Charles by taking Merrill Road off of Swan Creek Road. There are a few different ways to get between Saginaw and Grand Rapids but coming from where I live in Saginaw Township M-46 to US-131 is pretty much still the best way. Swan Creek Road will bypass several towns along M-46 except for Alma which at that point it's called Lincoln Road but you'll bypass Shields, Hemlock, Merrill, Wheeler, Breckenridge, St. Louis and Edmore because you'd just make a right on M-66 and take that back to M-46 it becomes Lake Montcalm Road in Montcalm County.

Are you drunk?

Why would I be drunk?

[Stephane Dumas]

Crews have been building the steel structure for the new Second Avenue bridge over I-94 in downtown Detroit (part of the I-94 Modernization project).  This will be the first network tied arch bridge in Michigan.  The structure is being built in a Wayne State University parking lot on the south side of the freeway between Second and Third avenues.

I-94 will be closed for seven days while the new bridge structure is rolled into place on modular transports.  This is anticipated to begin Sunday, July 10th.  MDOT has scheduled a virtual open house this Thursday, June 16th, at 11:30am to discuss the bridge slide.  Here is a link to the MDOT announcement, which itself includes a link to the Zoom meeting:
https://www.michigan.gov/mdot/news-outreach/pressreleases/2022/06/07/mdot-virtual-open-house-june-16-to-discuss--second-avenue-bridge-slide-over-i-94-in-detroit

I drove down yesterday and got a couple photos from across the freeway; I could not get up close.  First photo is looking south across the westbound freeway lanes from Third Avenue.  (The Third Avenue bridge was demolished and removed last year, and will not be replaced.)



Second photo is looking southwest across the freeway from Second Avenue.  The upright rebar is the abutment wall where the north end of the bridge will sit.

Thanks for sharing these pictures.   However, it's too bad then the scenario of continuous service roads have been dropped, here some "what might have been" plans they had once studied for the area of 2nd Ave. https://web.archive.org/web/20150215130004/http://www.michigan.gov/documents/MDOT_Figure_13-4_I-94_M-10_to_John_R_118213_7.pdf

And there's a bit more.
https://web.archive.org/web/20150213074447/https://www.michigan.gov/mdot/0,4616,7-151-9621_11058_53088_53115-112105--,00.html

[Terry Shea]

I see lots of posts that spun off from my I-196 dilemma (which is now a nonstarter) regarding the best route to the UP - which correctly assumes that I'm using the Mighty Mac to enter (we're staying at St. Ignace). This piqued my interests, for a myriad of reasons. I'm trying to see if there's a better surface route between freeways than what I'm currently using.

We usually take M-55 east from US 131 north, taking M-66 north to continue on M-55 east to US 127 and going from there. I'm gonna take M-72 out of my personal running because I like the seamless segue from US 127 to I-75. I keep hearing about this "Lake City Bypass,"  but it's not obviously apparent on the map. I'd like to learn more about that.

There was a slight murmur about US 10. We actually took that route coming home, and thought it would be a good alternative. Unfortunately (at least on that day), we ran into a decent share of slowpokes, with only one passing zone in that 35 mile span near Evart (to be fair, M-55 has only one passing zone on our routing too). I'd be willing to give this another try, since US 127 is wide open right up to I-75.

With me paring it down to those two choices, which do you guys prefer? Thanks again for all the input.

I looked far and wide for different options other than M-55 and US 10 but there don't seem to be too many. Probably just stick with M-55.

M-46 appears to be a better route between US 131 and US 127 in my eyes.
(But then again, people going from Grand Rapids to Saginaw who would otherwise use US 131 -> M-46, end up using I-96 -> I-69 -> I-75 instead. Probably for good reason too.)

It depends on where in Saginaw and Grand Rapids you are coming from and going to. If you are in Saginaw Township I-75 is on the other side of town and M-46 to US-131 is the best way to go. I-75 is almost never a good option if you are coming from or going to the west in Saginaw, M-13 connects to I-69 and shaves off 10 miles or so going into the city of Saginaw it's always the best way to go to get to I-69 going westbound, going eastbound on I-69 you'd take I-75 to I-475 to I-69. M-57 is sometimes a better route, it goes through less towns with Carson City and Greenville really being the only two and you can bypass St. Charles by taking Merrill Road off of Swan Creek Road. There are a few different ways to get between Saginaw and Grand Rapids but coming from where I live in Saginaw Township M-46 to US-131 is pretty much still the best way. Swan Creek Road will bypass several towns along M-46 except for Alma which at that point it's called Lincoln Road but you'll bypass Shields, Hemlock, Merrill, Wheeler, Breckenridge, St. Louis and Edmore because you'd just make a right on M-66 and take that back to M-46 it becomes Lake Montcalm Road in Montcalm County.

Are you drunk?

Why would I be drunk?

I don't know why, but none of this makes any sense.  M-46 is a slow 2-lane route with lots of slow traffic, few passing zones and lots of small towns.  Ditto for M-57 and M-13.  And I have no idea where you were trying to go with this, but it's obviously not going to get anyone anywhere:

"...going eastbound on I-69 you'd take I-75 to I-475 to I-69."

Stick to the freeways.  It may be a bit longer, but you'll save about an hour over the other routes.

[roadman65]

https://goo.gl/maps/y29EGrbawYzAgrco9
Thought this is unusual an at grade diamond on I-94 BL near Benton Harbor.

[wanderer2575]

https://goo.gl/maps/y29EGrbawYzAgrco9
Thought this is unusual an at grade diamond on I-94 BL near Benton Harbor.

Not anymore.  This stretch of BL I-94 was just reconstructed as a two-lane road and this intersection is now a roundabout with no ramps.  This was part of the US-31 interchange project.

[roadman65]

https://goo.gl/maps/y29EGrbawYzAgrco9
Thought this is unusual an at grade diamond on I-94 BL near Benton Harbor.

Not anymore.  This stretch of BL I-94 was just reconstructed as a two-lane road and this intersection is now a roundabout with no ramps.  This was part of the US-31 interchange project.

What about Euclid Avenue to the east.? Was the overpass eliminated then?

[Great Lakes Roads]

https://goo.gl/maps/y29EGrbawYzAgrco9
Thought this is unusual an at grade diamond on I-94 BL near Benton Harbor.

Not anymore.  This stretch of BL I-94 was just reconstructed as a two-lane road and this intersection is now a roundabout with no ramps.  This was part of the US-31 interchange project.

What about Euclid Avenue to the east.? Was the overpass eliminated then?

Yes, it has been replaced with an at-grade intersection.

[Flint1979]

I see lots of posts that spun off from my I-196 dilemma (which is now a nonstarter) regarding the best route to the UP - which correctly assumes that I'm using the Mighty Mac to enter (we're staying at St. Ignace). This piqued my interests, for a myriad of reasons. I'm trying to see if there's a better surface route between freeways than what I'm currently using.

We usually take M-55 east from US 131 north, taking M-66 north to continue on M-55 east to US 127 and going from there. I'm gonna take M-72 out of my personal running because I like the seamless segue from US 127 to I-75. I keep hearing about this "Lake City Bypass,"  but it's not obviously apparent on the map. I'd like to learn more about that.

There was a slight murmur about US 10. We actually took that route coming home, and thought it would be a good alternative. Unfortunately (at least on that day), we ran into a decent share of slowpokes, with only one passing zone in that 35 mile span near Evart (to be fair, M-55 has only one passing zone on our routing too). I'd be willing to give this another try, since US 127 is wide open right up to I-75.

With me paring it down to those two choices, which do you guys prefer? Thanks again for all the input.

I looked far and wide for different options other than M-55 and US 10 but there don't seem to be too many. Probably just stick with M-55.

M-46 appears to be a better route between US 131 and US 127 in my eyes.
(But then again, people going from Grand Rapids to Saginaw who would otherwise use US 131 -> M-46, end up using I-96 -> I-69 -> I-75 instead. Probably for good reason too.)

It depends on where in Saginaw and Grand Rapids you are coming from and going to. If you are in Saginaw Township I-75 is on the other side of town and M-46 to US-131 is the best way to go. I-75 is almost never a good option if you are coming from or going to the west in Saginaw, M-13 connects to I-69 and shaves off 10 miles or so going into the city of Saginaw it's always the best way to go to get to I-69 going westbound, going eastbound on I-69 you'd take I-75 to I-475 to I-69. M-57 is sometimes a better route, it goes through less towns with Carson City and Greenville really being the only two and you can bypass St. Charles by taking Merrill Road off of Swan Creek Road. There are a few different ways to get between Saginaw and Grand Rapids but coming from where I live in Saginaw Township M-46 to US-131 is pretty much still the best way. Swan Creek Road will bypass several towns along M-46 except for Alma which at that point it's called Lincoln Road but you'll bypass Shields, Hemlock, Merrill, Wheeler, Breckenridge, St. Louis and Edmore because you'd just make a right on M-66 and take that back to M-46 it becomes Lake Montcalm Road in Montcalm County.

Are you drunk?

Why would I be drunk?

I don't know why, but none of this makes any sense.  M-46 is a slow 2-lane route with lots of slow traffic, few passing zones and lots of small towns.  Ditto for M-57 and M-13.  And I have no idea where you were trying to go with this, but it's obviously not going to get anyone anywhere:

"...going eastbound on I-69 you'd take I-75 to I-475 to I-69."

Stick to the freeways.  It may be a bit longer, but you'll save about an hour over the other routes.

It makes perfect sense. I live in Saginaw and travel around the state frequently so I'm pretty aware of how to get to other cities in the state. M-46 barely has a bunch of slow moving traffic, between the towns traffic moves at about 60 mph, M-57 and M-13 have even less slow moving traffic than M-46 does and what's wrong with using the combo of Swan Creek/Lincoln/Lake Montcalm Roads to bypass the small towns along M-46? The only city you go through is Alma and it takes you all the way to M-66 just before the S curve at Six Lakes. And really you could cut over on US-127 since US-127 shifts in the direction you are going into there and only have one more small town (Edmore) to go through. There are several different ways you can go between Saginaw and Grand Rapids and most of them end up being around the same amount of time. Adding on 7 more minutes to save 17 miles is worth it. And you use up more gas using the freeways too.


None of those three state highways are very slow moving highways at all. M-46 is a fine highway to take to get to US-131 it might go through some small towns Taking M-46 and US-131 from Saginaw to Grand Rapids adds on a grand total of 7 more minutes and cuts off 17 miles. I'll gladly trade those 7 more minutes to save 17 miles and the fact that I would do a return trip would save me a total of 34 miles. I travel on all three of these state highways frequently and add in M-52 that I travel on frequently as well. It might save you a few minutes but in the long run it's a lot further.

[rhen_var]

https://goo.gl/maps/y29EGrbawYzAgrco9
Thought this is unusual an at grade diamond on I-94 BL near Benton Harbor.

Not anymore.  This stretch of BL I-94 was just reconstructed as a two-lane road and this intersection is now a roundabout with no ramps.  This was part of the US-31 interchange project.

What about Euclid Avenue to the east.? Was the overpass eliminated then?

Yes, it has been replaced with an at-grade intersection.

It's kind of a shame.  I love the little mini-freeways and the weird and unique 1950-60s era designs that came with them (some examples are the "freeway" in Benton Harbor on M-63 and the really strange interchange at Klock Road or the little segment of US-12 south of Niles, or the Willow Run freeway).  They're slowly being removed one by one.  I understand that their replacements are safer and are usually cheaper and make more sense but I'm still sad to see them go.

[Terry Shea]

https://goo.gl/maps/y29EGrbawYzAgrco9
Thought this is unusual an at grade diamond on I-94 BL near Benton Harbor.

Not anymore.  This stretch of BL I-94 was just reconstructed as a two-lane road and this intersection is now a roundabout with no ramps.  This was part of the US-31 interchange project.

What about Euclid Avenue to the east.? Was the overpass eliminated then?

Yes, it has been replaced with an at-grade intersection.

It's kind of a shame.  I love the little mini-freeways and the weird and unique 1950-60s era designs that came with them (some examples are the "freeway" in Benton Harbor on M-63 and the really strange interchange at Klock Road or the little segment of US-12 south of Niles, or the Willow Run freeway).  They're slowly being removed one by one.  I understand that their replacements are safer and are usually cheaper and make more sense but I'm still sad to see them go.

Well, my experience has been that traffic always moves slowly on these 2 lane highways.  There are no passing lanes and not nearly enough passing zones, and the few passing zones are short.  Trucks, farm equipment and Amish buggies are also problems.  These 2 lane highways are downright dangerous, imo.  I generally stay off from them unless it's a holiday weekend with bumper to bumper traffic on the freeways.  The top speed limit on these 2 lane highways is 55.  It's 70-75 on the freeways.  I see absolutely no reason to take these 2 lane road routes.  I want to get to where I'm going as quickly as possible and as safely as possible.

[Flint1979]

Well from my driveway in Saginaw Township to downtown Grand Rapids the quickest way is to take M-46 to US-131 it's also shorter by 22 miles to take this route than to take M-13 to I-69. Taking I-75 to I-69 to go toward Lansing doesn't make any sense either. It is a route that you COULD use but it's longer and is going to take a longer period of time to travel.

Look at these routings from my driveway to downtown Grand Rapids.

Taking I-75 to I-69 to I-96: 150 miles, 2 hours 18 minutes.
Taking M-46 to US-131: 114 miles, 2 hours 9 minutes.
Taking Center than Swan Creek Road to M-52 to M-57 to US-131: 114 miles, 2 hours 14 minutes.
Taking M-13 to I-69 to I-96: 136 miles, 2 hours 13 minutes.

So you see the times are about the same but you are saving miles and gas mileage by taking the shorter route. And you can go 60 mph on M-46, M-52 and M-57. I've never had a problem with slow moving traffic, the traffic volumes on M-46 aren't generally that high in the rural areas that it's going to be much of a factor. M-46 honestly has it's highest traffic volumes near it's western terminus and the lowest traffic volumes near it's eastern terminus and the traffic volumes between Saginaw and US-131 are below 8,000 VPD. M-57's are even lower until you get to Greenville.

[Terry Shea]

Well from my driveway in Saginaw Township to downtown Grand Rapids the quickest way is to take M-46 to US-131 it's also shorter by 22 miles to take this route than to take M-13 to I-69. Taking I-75 to I-69 to go toward Lansing doesn't make any sense either. It is a route that you COULD use but it's longer and is going to take a longer period of time to travel.

Look at these routings from my driveway to downtown Grand Rapids.

Taking I-75 to I-69 to I-96: 150 miles, 2 hours 18 minutes.
Taking M-46 to US-131: 114 miles, 2 hours 9 minutes.
Taking Center than Swan Creek Road to M-52 to M-57 to US-131: 114 miles, 2 hours 14 minutes.
Taking M-13 to I-69 to I-96: 136 miles, 2 hours 13 minutes.

So you see the times are about the same but you are saving miles and gas mileage by taking the shorter route. And you can go 60 mph on M-46, M-52 and M-57. I've never had a problem with slow moving traffic, the traffic volumes on M-46 aren't generally that high in the rural areas that it's going to be much of a factor. M-46 honestly has it's highest traffic volumes near it's western terminus and the lowest traffic volumes near it's eastern terminus and the traffic volumes between Saginaw and US-131 are below 8,000 VPD. M-57's are even lower until you get to Greenville.

I don't know where you're getting those times from, but I don't believe them.  It takes me about an hour longer taking the 2-lane highways.  And I don't think there's any savings gas mileage wise either.  Slower speed limits do not necessarily mean higher gas mileage when there are a lot of stops and starts and slow downs involved as opposed to just putting it in cruise on the freeways.  Now, I will say that road construction plays a factor, and right now taking I-96 to I-69 to Flint is a real headache with the EB I-96 to ramp to EB I-69 being closed, with no good detour routes available!  I've been taking 2 lane roads up to Mount Pleasant, but I avoid M-46 for all but about 10 miles.  And I'll go back to using I-196 to US-127 as soon as the construction is complete.

[sprjus4]

^ I would personally also prefer the interstate routing over arterial roads for the convenience of cruising at ~80 mph the whole way, but I do question if it would add an hour... especially considering mileage wise, the arterial routes in question are shorter distance.

[Flint1979]

I was actually in Grand Rapids yesterday. I had to take an indirect route to get there because I was going from Saginaw to Harrison to Big Rapids then to Grand Rapids. But anyway Grand Rapids was my last stop and I was heading back to Saginaw after that. I was at the Meijer at 28th and Kalamazoo when I started to head back to Saginaw. I took this route going back to Saginaw.

Started out heading east on 28th to M-37 north, then took M-44 east to M-91 north, took Fairplains Street in Greenville to connect to M-57 east. Once I was on M-57 it was smooth sailing, I started out doing about 60 mph, then went up to 65, then 70 and finally 75 mph as that is what the traffic was moving. The only city you encounter is Carson City and I made it across Gratiot County in real good time. Took M-57 to M-52 north going through St. Charles which doesn't bother me since I'm use to that town. Then took Swan Creek to Center which at that point you're in Saginaw. The only problem I thought I was going to have is once I turned on M-44 to head east there was a truck two vehicles ahead of me and I thought he might go slower but he was moving 65 mph the entire way to M-91.