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Michigan Notes

Started by MDOTFanFB, October 26, 2012, 08:06:31 PM

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JREwing78

Woodward Ave is a pretty wide boulevard, with room for median turnarounds and 8 lanes on top of street parking from McNichols Rd (Six Mile) north . When it was built out, the area between Detroit and Pontiac was undeveloped, and it was the main highway between the two cities.

I doubt losing 2 lanes is going to be that big of a problem in Ferndale, but I don't daily commute on Woodward.


adventurernumber1

Quote from: pianocello on October 13, 2022, 08:50:19 PM
Quote from: afguy on October 13, 2022, 06:04:01 PM
Woodward Avenue will be undergoing a "road diet" between 8 Mile and Interstate 696. Woodward will be reduced from 8 lanes to 6 and will feature protected bike lanes.

QuoteOn Oct. 17, construction on Woodward Avenue between Eight Mile and Interstate 696 will begin. Woodward Moves, a joint venture between Ferndale, Pleasant Ridge and the Michigan Department of Transportation, will reduce one lane in each direction, add a nine-foot parking-protected bike lane, where the parking lane puts a barrier between cars and bicyclists, a three-foot buffer, and about 900 delineators to ensure cars don't cross into the bike lane, Ferndale Downtown Development Authority's Executive Director Lena Stevens told Crain's.

The project also includes repaving up to the northern Ferndale boundary. Pleasant Ridge's portion of the roadway has already been repaved.

The city has received some pushback from residents and businesses who express concern about the year-long construction project obstructing roadways, and the reduction of car lanes increasing traffic density in an already busy area. Lawn signs protesting the "road diet" have been a visible presence in local neighborhoods.
https://www.crainsdetroit.com/transportation/woodward-avenue-road-diet-construction-will-add-bike-lanes

I've never been to this area, but this seems like a no-brainer on the surface. I appreciate it when bike/pedestrian infrastructure is added to under-capacity roads.

I have to laugh, though, this has got to be one of the only cases in history where there's a six-lane road left after a road diet takes place.

Quote from: JREwing78 on October 14, 2022, 01:21:59 PM
Woodward Ave is a pretty wide boulevard, with room for median turnarounds and 8 lanes on top of street parking from McNichols Rd (Six Mile) north . When it was built out, the area between Detroit and Pontiac was undeveloped, and it was the main highway between the two cities.

I doubt losing 2 lanes is going to be that big of a problem in Ferndale, but I don't daily commute on Woodward.

When I first saw "road diet" I was also not expecting a road that would end up being six lanes after the diet.  :-D :-D

But that's definitely a lot of lanes for a surface street, which is no stranger to Metro Detroit from what I've seen on Google Maps.

But it seems like the section of Woodward Avenue (M-1) south of Eight Mile Road (M-102) is even more deserving of a road diet, as it is a staggering 10 lanes.
Now alternating between different highway shields for my avatar - my previous highway shield avatar for the last few years was US 76.

Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/127322363@N08/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-vJ3qa8R-cc44Cv6ohio1g

Flint1979

Woodward is a very busy street that is an alternate route for I-75 in the area as well. It's indeed worthy of the amount of lanes it has as much as 65,000 VPD using it.

vegas1962

I don't have photographic evidence, but last week I was on northbound US-24 Telegraph Rd in a major construction zone between I-94 and US-12 Michigan Ave in the Taylor/Dearborn area.  This project is being worked by the MDOT Taylor TSC, according to the MDOTjboss site.  Well, Taylor screwed up.  They have already posted new reassurance markers along the route but unfortunately have posted M-24 (state diamond) shields instead of the correct US-24 shields.

Hard to believe that Taylor wouldn't have the correct shields stocked; despite the obvious numerical confusion with US-24, M-24 doesn't run anywhere near Taylor.  Why would they have shields for a highway that doesn't run through their jurisdiction?

texaskdog

Quote from: Flint1979 on October 24, 2022, 08:06:03 AM
Woodward is a very busy street that is an alternate route for I-75 in the area as well. It's indeed worthy of the amount of lanes it has as much as 65,000 VPD using it.

Stuff like this makes me think of Kramer restriping....

Flint1979


Terry Shea

Quote from: Flint1979 on October 26, 2022, 07:19:43 AM
I passed the Parrish Road bridge in Bay County twice last night and it looks like they are completing it. This was the bridge between MM 171 and 172 that sat half complete for the entire summer.

This is a GSV from August. They have more done now.

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.7100282,-84.0120697,3a,49.4y,342.44h,87.22t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1ss8rqN8XFK4Sxot9Bs3CMTQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3Ds8rqN8XFK4Sxot9Bs3CMTQ%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D132.71487%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1
Yeah, I drove through there yesterday and could finally see some work being done.  But it actually sat there looking like just prior to that pic being taken (pretty much only the beam on the left being added) for about a year or more.

Terry Shea

Quote from: vegas1962 on October 25, 2022, 02:41:20 PM
I don't have photographic evidence, but last week I was on northbound US-24 Telegraph Rd in a major construction zone between I-94 and US-12 Michigan Ave in the Taylor/Dearborn area.  This project is being worked by the MDOT Taylor TSC, according to the MDOTjboss site.  Well, Taylor screwed up.  They have already posted new reassurance markers along the route but unfortunately have posted M-24 (state diamond) shields instead of the correct US-24 shields.

Hard to believe that Taylor wouldn't have the correct shields stocked; despite the obvious numerical confusion with US-24, M-24 doesn't run anywhere near Taylor.  Why would they have shields for a highway that doesn't run through their jurisdiction?
Not surprising at all considering how much MDOT has been screwing up signage and detour routing in other areas.  MDOT got creative with the confusion this summer in the Lansing area by signing detours that either don't exist (in whole or in part), make no sense or involve routes and/or exit numbers that don't exist.  The northernmost I-69/I-96 interchange has been closed down for most of the year.  First, the ramp to EB I-69, exit 89, was closed off.  Traffic was detoured to the next exit, Grand River Ave (exit 90), continued east on Grand River and then north on Airport Road back to I-69.  No problem there, other than some pretty good backups attempting to turn left from Grand River Ave onto Airport Road, as there is no left turn signal to facilitate all the extra traffic going that way.  But at about this time the electronic message board on SB US-127 north of the I-69 interchange announced that I-69 was closed at exit 89... except there is no exit 89 on I-69!  Exit 89 is the exit I mentioned above, from EB I-96 to EB I-69.  They got the wrong freeway and I'm not certain what the relevance of such signage on SB-127 would be: how is a driver going to get from SB-127 to EB I-96 west of the interchange with I-69?  And the situation would get totally mucked up if you decided to stay on SB-127 to WB-96 to it's multiplex with NB I-69 to the point where EB I-69 exists (essentially doing a near full clockwise circle around town), since the exit number for EB I-69 from WB I-96 is exit 91 and not exit 89.
Oh, but it doesn't end there.  When they re-opened the EB ramps from I-96 to EB I-69, they closed down the WB ramps from I-69 to WB I-96.  Now I realize that a dyslexic sex maniac is going to be all over his/her self at this point, but please bear with me.  The posted detour to continue on WB I-69 to WB I-96 was Airport Road south to Grand River Ave west back to the I/96/I-69 interchange, which once again makes sense.  But one day, I was backed up in traffic on SB US-127 and decided to weave my way along backroads.  I eventually got to Airport Rd about a half mile north of the I-69 interchange.  When I got to the interchange, there was a sign indicating that the ramp from Airport Rd to WB I-69 was closed.  The posted detour sent traffic down the EB I-69 ramp.  I found this quite odd, since the detour for WB I-69 to WB I-96 along Airport Road and Grand River Ave gets you to essentially the exact same spot where the 2 freeways split/merge.  But the story doesn't end there!
Curious as to where that posted detour went after heading down the the EB I-69 ramp off from Airport Rd, I did my due diligence and sought out signage on EB I-69 on my next several trips through the area.  There was none!  Finally about 3 weeks later, detour signs were posted to exit EB I-69 at exit 87, Old 27, cross the bridge and exit again onto WB I-69, essentially doing a full circle.  The problem is, once again, if you want to exit WB I-69 onto WB I-96 to return to Grand Rapids, you can't do it because the exit is closed!🤣 And, once again, for at least 3 weeks, there was no detour signage once entering EB I-69.  I wonder how many people ended up in Flint, Port Huron or Canada before they figured it out?🤣 But the story doesn't end here.
One night heading home from Mt. Pleasant heading south on US-127, I came across that same electronic message board mentioned earlier.  I had already decided I was going to stick to the freeways and avoid the posted 2-lane road detours.  I knew I-496 had been closed through town, but I wasn't sure if it was still closed.  Anyway, the electronic message board said "I-96 closed at exit 7A."   I knew there was no exit 7A on I-96, but for some reason, I thought they had the right freeway but the wrong exit number.  So I hopped onto I-496 thinking that it was finally open, but as soon as I did so, I realized that exit 7A was part of the I-496 numbering scheme, and had to exit the freeway and detour some more!

wanderer2575

Quote from: vegas1962 on October 25, 2022, 02:41:20 PM
I don't have photographic evidence, but last week I was on northbound US-24 Telegraph Rd in a major construction zone between I-94 and US-12 Michigan Ave in the Taylor/Dearborn area.  This project is being worked by the MDOT Taylor TSC, according to the MDOTjboss site.  Well, Taylor screwed up.  They have already posted new reassurance markers along the route but unfortunately have posted M-24 (state diamond) shields instead of the correct US-24 shields.

Hard to believe that Taylor wouldn't have the correct shields stocked; despite the obvious numerical confusion with US-24, M-24 doesn't run anywhere near Taylor.  Why would they have shields for a highway that doesn't run through their jurisdiction?

Taylor TSC might be overseeing the project but I doubt they are actually doing the work, especially if it's "major" as you described and not simply patching potholes or clearing a stormwater drain.  My guess is it's a contractor screw-up.

Flint1979

Quote from: Terry Shea on October 26, 2022, 11:42:16 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 26, 2022, 07:19:43 AM
I passed the Parrish Road bridge in Bay County twice last night and it looks like they are completing it. This was the bridge between MM 171 and 172 that sat half complete for the entire summer.

This is a GSV from August. They have more done now.

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.7100282,-84.0120697,3a,49.4y,342.44h,87.22t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1ss8rqN8XFK4Sxot9Bs3CMTQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3Ds8rqN8XFK4Sxot9Bs3CMTQ%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D132.71487%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1
Yeah, I drove through there yesterday and could finally see some work being done.  But it actually sat there looking like just prior to that pic being taken (pretty much only the beam on the left being added) for about a year or more.
They've been slowly redoing that stretch of I-75. I really can't understand why they wouldn't consider adding an extra lane in each direction between MM 164 and 188.

Flint1979

Remember how long the US-10 shields remained up in Detroit for the Lodge Freeway? I think it was only about 15 or so years ago since the last one I can remember was removed and replaced with a M-10 shield. I saw a M-14 sign on Plymouth Road once too and I think that is actually still an unsigned state highway.

Terry Shea

Quote from: Flint1979 on October 27, 2022, 03:42:57 PM
Quote from: Terry Shea on October 26, 2022, 11:42:16 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 26, 2022, 07:19:43 AM
I passed the Parrish Road bridge in Bay County twice last night and it looks like they are completing it. This was the bridge between MM 171 and 172 that sat half complete for the entire summer.

This is a GSV from August. They have more done now.

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.7100282,-84.0120697,3a,49.4y,342.44h,87.22t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1ss8rqN8XFK4Sxot9Bs3CMTQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3Ds8rqN8XFK4Sxot9Bs3CMTQ%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D132.71487%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1
Yeah, I drove through there yesterday and could finally see some work being done.  But it actually sat there looking like just prior to that pic being taken (pretty much only the beam on the left being added) for about a year or more.
They've been slowly redoing that stretch of I-75. I really can't understand why they wouldn't consider adding an extra lane in each direction between MM 164 and 188.
It might be on the MDOT 250-year plan.

catch22

Quote from: Flint1979 on October 27, 2022, 03:49:48 PM
Remember how long the US-10 shields remained up in Detroit for the Lodge Freeway? I think it was only about 15 or so years ago since the last one I can remember was removed and replaced with a M-10 shield. I saw a M-14 sign on Plymouth Road once too and I think that is actually still an unsigned state highway.

Yes, Ann Arbor Road / Plymouth Road from the Washtenaw County line to the city limits of Detroit just east of Telegraph Road (US-24).

http://www.michiganhighways.org/listings/M-014.html


wanderer2575

MDOT will be letting a contract for work on US-127 between M-57 and the freeway terminus south of Ithaca -- repaving, creek crossings, and more elimination of direct cross road intersections.



Terry Shea

Quote from: wanderer2575 on October 28, 2022, 03:32:59 PM
MDOT will be letting a contract for work on US-127 between M-57 and the freeway terminus south of Ithaca -- repaving, creek crossings, and more elimination of direct cross road intersections.



I take it that plans to convert US-127 to a freeway between St. Johns and Ithaca are dead.

Flint1979

Quote from: Terry Shea on October 31, 2022, 12:15:34 AM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on October 28, 2022, 03:32:59 PM
MDOT will be letting a contract for work on US-127 between M-57 and the freeway terminus south of Ithaca -- repaving, creek crossings, and more elimination of direct cross road intersections.



I take it that plans to convert US-127 to a freeway between St. Johns and Ithaca are dead.
Oh yeah, they've been dead for quite awhile.

Terry Shea

Quote from: Flint1979 on October 31, 2022, 06:59:15 AM
Quote from: Terry Shea on October 31, 2022, 12:15:34 AM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on October 28, 2022, 03:32:59 PM
MDOT will be letting a contract for work on US-127 between M-57 and the freeway terminus south of Ithaca -- repaving, creek crossings, and more elimination of direct cross road intersections.



I take it that plans to convert US-127 to a freeway between St. Johns and Ithaca are dead.
Oh yeah, they've been dead for quite awhile.
It was in their 5-year plan not that long ago.

JREwing78

Quote from: Terry Shea on October 31, 2022, 03:36:42 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 31, 2022, 06:59:15 AM
Quote from: Terry Shea on October 31, 2022, 12:15:34 AM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on October 28, 2022, 03:32:59 PM
MDOT will be letting a contract for work on US-127 between M-57 and the freeway terminus south of Ithaca -- repaving, creek crossings, and more elimination of direct cross road intersections.
I take it that plans to convert US-127 to a freeway between St. Johns and Ithaca are dead.
Oh yeah, they've been dead for quite awhile.
It was in their 5-year plan not that long ago.

I wouldn't call a US-127 freeway between St. Johns and Ithaca dead. More like dormant, as in "we have bigger fish to fry".

At the point MDOT has to do a ground-up rebuild of the roadbed, then they'll expend the $$$ to convert it to freeway. But they've addressed the chief safety concerns over the past 30 years - removing the stoplight at M-57, limiting cross-traffic, and purchasing and removing driveway and side-road access.

As much as having this gap in the freeway north irks me, it's at least a 4-lane divided highway. US-127 south of M-50 in Jackson carries comparable traffic on a (nominally) 2-lane roadway with passing lanes. The chances of that stretch becoming freeway are a lot more dead than the Ithaca to St. Johns stretch.

Terry Shea

Quote from: JREwing78 on October 31, 2022, 08:22:17 PM
Quote from: Terry Shea on October 31, 2022, 03:36:42 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 31, 2022, 06:59:15 AM
Quote from: Terry Shea on October 31, 2022, 12:15:34 AM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on October 28, 2022, 03:32:59 PM
MDOT will be letting a contract for work on US-127 between M-57 and the freeway terminus south of Ithaca -- repaving, creek crossings, and more elimination of direct cross road intersections.
I take it that plans to convert US-127 to a freeway between St. Johns and Ithaca are dead.
Oh yeah, they've been dead for quite awhile.
It was in their 5-year plan not that long ago.

I wouldn't call a US-127 freeway between St. Johns and Ithaca dead. More like dormant, as in "we have bigger fish to fry".

At the point MDOT has to do a ground-up rebuild of the roadbed, then they'll expend the $$$ to convert it to freeway. But they've addressed the chief safety concerns over the past 30 years - removing the stoplight at M-57, limiting cross-traffic, and purchasing and removing driveway and side-road access.

As much as having this gap in the freeway north irks me, it's at least a 4-lane divided highway. US-127 south of M-50 in Jackson carries comparable traffic on a (nominally) 2-lane roadway with passing lanes. The chances of that stretch becoming freeway are a lot more dead than the Ithaca to St. Johns stretch.
I believe the reason MDOT isn't converting this stretch to a freeway, along with US-31 north of Ludington and US-131 north of Manton, is because the average daily traffic counts don't justify it.  But anyone who's driven these stretches of highway on a summer weekend... especially a holiday weekend, knows that average traffic counts are virtually meaningless on these roads.  They can get exponentially more traffic on weekends and holiday weekends.  At least US-127 is 4-lane divided, but I don't see that the changes they're making are going to improve anything all that much, other than cosmetically.  I think they're just doing it so they can say they did something. 

kernals12

Quote from: Terry Shea on November 01, 2022, 02:00:14 AM
Quote from: JREwing78 on October 31, 2022, 08:22:17 PM
Quote from: Terry Shea on October 31, 2022, 03:36:42 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 31, 2022, 06:59:15 AM
Quote from: Terry Shea on October 31, 2022, 12:15:34 AM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on October 28, 2022, 03:32:59 PM
MDOT will be letting a contract for work on US-127 between M-57 and the freeway terminus south of Ithaca -- repaving, creek crossings, and more elimination of direct cross road intersections.
I take it that plans to convert US-127 to a freeway between St. Johns and Ithaca are dead.
Oh yeah, they've been dead for quite awhile.
It was in their 5-year plan not that long ago.

I wouldn't call a US-127 freeway between St. Johns and Ithaca dead. More like dormant, as in "we have bigger fish to fry".

At the point MDOT has to do a ground-up rebuild of the roadbed, then they'll expend the $$$ to convert it to freeway. But they've addressed the chief safety concerns over the past 30 years - removing the stoplight at M-57, limiting cross-traffic, and purchasing and removing driveway and side-road access.

As much as having this gap in the freeway north irks me, it's at least a 4-lane divided highway. US-127 south of M-50 in Jackson carries comparable traffic on a (nominally) 2-lane roadway with passing lanes. The chances of that stretch becoming freeway are a lot more dead than the Ithaca to St. Johns stretch.
I believe the reason MDOT isn't converting this stretch to a freeway, along with US-31 north of Ludington and US-131 north of Manton, is because the average daily traffic counts don't justify it.  But anyone who's driven these stretches of highway on a summer weekend... especially a holiday weekend, knows that average traffic counts are virtually meaningless on these roads.  They can get exponentially more traffic on weekends and holiday weekends.  At least US-127 is 4-lane divided, but I don't see that the changes they're making are going to improve anything all that much, other than cosmetically.  I think they're just doing it so they can say they did something.

Having to constantly pave, salt, and plow highway lanes that are only going to be used a few weekends a year is obviously quite expensive.

skluth

Quote from: kernals12 on November 01, 2022, 11:49:03 AM
Quote from: Terry Shea on November 01, 2022, 02:00:14 AM
Quote from: JREwing78 on October 31, 2022, 08:22:17 PM
Quote from: Terry Shea on October 31, 2022, 03:36:42 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 31, 2022, 06:59:15 AM
Quote from: Terry Shea on October 31, 2022, 12:15:34 AM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on October 28, 2022, 03:32:59 PM
MDOT will be letting a contract for work on US-127 between M-57 and the freeway terminus south of Ithaca -- repaving, creek crossings, and more elimination of direct cross road intersections.
I take it that plans to convert US-127 to a freeway between St. Johns and Ithaca are dead.
Oh yeah, they've been dead for quite awhile.
It was in their 5-year plan not that long ago.

I wouldn't call a US-127 freeway between St. Johns and Ithaca dead. More like dormant, as in "we have bigger fish to fry".

At the point MDOT has to do a ground-up rebuild of the roadbed, then they'll expend the $$$ to convert it to freeway. But they've addressed the chief safety concerns over the past 30 years - removing the stoplight at M-57, limiting cross-traffic, and purchasing and removing driveway and side-road access.

As much as having this gap in the freeway north irks me, it's at least a 4-lane divided highway. US-127 south of M-50 in Jackson carries comparable traffic on a (nominally) 2-lane roadway with passing lanes. The chances of that stretch becoming freeway are a lot more dead than the Ithaca to St. Johns stretch.
I believe the reason MDOT isn't converting this stretch to a freeway, along with US-31 north of Ludington and US-131 north of Manton, is because the average daily traffic counts don't justify it.  But anyone who's driven these stretches of highway on a summer weekend... especially a holiday weekend, knows that average traffic counts are virtually meaningless on these roads.  They can get exponentially more traffic on weekends and holiday weekends.  At least US-127 is 4-lane divided, but I don't see that the changes they're making are going to improve anything all that much, other than cosmetically.  I think they're just doing it so they can say they did something.

Having to constantly pave, salt, and plow highway lanes that are only going to be used a few weekends a year is obviously quite expensive.

It is. But weekend traffic is what drove neighboring Wisconsin to four lane US 41 (and much of US 141) north of Green Bay, US 45 NW of Oshkosh, US 51 (now I-39), US 53 north of Chippewa Falls, and WI 57 to Sturgeon Bay. None of these highways is especially busy during the week. But every summer weekend, they would be dangerous highways with cars mixing with all sorts of slower moving vehicles, often towing campers or boats. Wisconsin's leaders realized expressways or better to the North Woods would be very beneficial for the tourism industry, both for monetary and safety reasons. The improvements have more than paid for themselves in lower accident rates and saved lives.

Flint1979

It's more than just a few weekends a year. It's pretty much every summer weekend and hunting season as well

JREwing78

This stretch of US-127 also gets fairly heavy commuter traffic coming into and going out of Lansing during the weekdays. There are a surprising number of folks commuting daily to Lansing from places like Mount Pleasant, Clare, Harrison, and even Houghton Lake. This only works as long as the highway is free flowing, weather is cooperative, and snowplowing is reliable when the weather isn't cooperative.

Average daily traffic counts are well into the range to justify a freeway there, as is the rest of US-127 to at least Clare. But it was 4-laned in the early 1950s, before MDOT gave much thought to the "limited access" idea - or that 70 years later the highway is largely in the same configuration. Now MDOT has to acquire property to get a freeway done.

That stretch of US-127 gets regular safety upgrades because it's a relatively hazardous stretch (compared to the freeway sections north and south of there), but the safety measures have been effective enough that MDOT's been able to push back freeway conversion several decades. It's allowed them to focus limited resources on other places that need it more (I-94 through Kalamazoo and Jackson, for instance).

vegas1962

Quote from: Terry Shea on November 01, 2022, 02:00:14 AM
Quote from: JREwing78 on October 31, 2022, 08:22:17 PM
Quote from: Terry Shea on October 31, 2022, 03:36:42 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 31, 2022, 06:59:15 AM
Quote from: Terry Shea on October 31, 2022, 12:15:34 AM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on October 28, 2022, 03:32:59 PM
MDOT will be letting a contract for work on US-127 between M-57 and the freeway terminus south of Ithaca -- repaving, creek crossings, and more elimination of direct cross road intersections.
I take it that plans to convert US-127 to a freeway between St. Johns and Ithaca are dead.
Oh yeah, they've been dead for quite awhile.
It was in their 5-year plan not that long ago.

I wouldn't call a US-127 freeway between St. Johns and Ithaca dead. More like dormant, as in "we have bigger fish to fry".

At the point MDOT has to do a ground-up rebuild of the roadbed, then they'll expend the $$$ to convert it to freeway. But they've addressed the chief safety concerns over the past 30 years - removing the stoplight at M-57, limiting cross-traffic, and purchasing and removing driveway and side-road access.

As much as having this gap in the freeway north irks me, it's at least a 4-lane divided highway. US-127 south of M-50 in Jackson carries comparable traffic on a (nominally) 2-lane roadway with passing lanes. The chances of that stretch becoming freeway are a lot more dead than the Ithaca to St. Johns stretch.
I believe the reason MDOT isn't converting this stretch to a freeway, along with US-31 north of Ludington and US-131 north of Manton, is because the average daily traffic counts don't justify it.  But anyone who's driven these stretches of highway on a summer weekend... especially a holiday weekend, knows that average traffic counts are virtually meaningless on these roads.  They can get exponentially more traffic on weekends and holiday weekends.  At least US-127 is 4-lane divided, but I don't see that the changes they're making are going to improve anything all that much, other than cosmetically.  I think they're just doing it so they can say they did something.

To say nothing about removing the at-grade rail crossing just north of the M-57 interchange. It surprised me that this wasn't rectified when that interchange was built.

But there's a flaw in your comparison of US-127 with US-31 north of Ludington and US-131 north of Manton: the proposed 31 and 131 projects are extensions from the current northern ends.  The 127 project would be to fill in a gap between two freeway segments.  Big difference.

It's my understanding that the 31 and 131 northern extensions have not happened largely due to (low) traffic counts that don't justify the build, but filling in the 127 gap is a question of whether to improve the current highway (including the Maple River crossing) or acquire the land necessary to build on a completely new alignment (likely east of the current highway), but that would come at a prohibitive cost that MDOT can't justify.  Keeping the status quo (existing highway with turnarounds to eliminate cross traffic and a 65-mph speed limit) is probably the best option for the near future.

Terry Shea

Quote from: vegas1962 on November 03, 2022, 02:02:36 PM
Quote from: Terry Shea on November 01, 2022, 02:00:14 AM
Quote from: JREwing78 on October 31, 2022, 08:22:17 PM
Quote from: Terry Shea on October 31, 2022, 03:36:42 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 31, 2022, 06:59:15 AM
Quote from: Terry Shea on October 31, 2022, 12:15:34 AM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on October 28, 2022, 03:32:59 PM
MDOT will be letting a contract for work on US-127 between M-57 and the freeway terminus south of Ithaca -- repaving, creek crossings, and more elimination of direct cross road intersections.
I take it that plans to convert US-127 to a freeway between St. Johns and Ithaca are dead.
Oh yeah, they've been dead for quite awhile.
It was in their 5-year plan not that long ago.

I wouldn't call a US-127 freeway between St. Johns and Ithaca dead. More like dormant, as in "we have bigger fish to fry".

At the point MDOT has to do a ground-up rebuild of the roadbed, then they'll expend the $$$ to convert it to freeway. But they've addressed the chief safety concerns over the past 30 years - removing the stoplight at M-57, limiting cross-traffic, and purchasing and removing driveway and side-road access.

As much as having this gap in the freeway north irks me, it's at least a 4-lane divided highway. US-127 south of M-50 in Jackson carries comparable traffic on a (nominally) 2-lane roadway with passing lanes. The chances of that stretch becoming freeway are a lot more dead than the Ithaca to St. Johns stretch.
I believe the reason MDOT isn't converting this stretch to a freeway, along with US-31 north of Ludington and US-131 north of Manton, is because the average daily traffic counts don't justify it.  But anyone who's driven these stretches of highway on a summer weekend... especially a holiday weekend, knows that average traffic counts are virtually meaningless on these roads.  They can get exponentially more traffic on weekends and holiday weekends.  At least US-127 is 4-lane divided, but I don't see that the changes they're making are going to improve anything all that much, other than cosmetically.  I think they're just doing it so they can say they did something.

To say nothing about removing the at-grade rail crossing just north of the M-57 interchange. It surprised me that this wasn't rectified when that interchange was built.

But there's a flaw in your comparison of US-127 with US-31 north of Ludington and US-131 north of Manton: the proposed 31 and 131 projects are extensions from the current northern ends.  The 127 project would be to fill in a gap between two freeway segments.  Big difference.

It's my understanding that the 31 and 131 northern extensions have not happened largely due to (low) traffic counts that don't justify the build, but filling in the 127 gap is a question of whether to improve the current highway (including the Maple River crossing) or acquire the land necessary to build on a completely new alignment (likely east of the current highway), but that would come at a prohibitive cost that MDOT can't justify.  Keeping the status quo (existing highway with turnarounds to eliminate cross traffic and a 65-mph speed limit) is probably the best option for the near future.
As far as that RR crossing goes, I've driven that stretch 2-3 times a week both ways for the past dozen years or so, and I've never had to stop for a train.  In fact, I thought the tracks had been decommissioned until I actually did see a train well down the tracks one night.  At any rate, if they're not going to turn it into a freeway, the RR tracks are about the least of their worries.

As for US-31 and US-131 freeways not being extended due to low traffic counts, once again, those are average daily counts and don't reflect the enormous traffic these routes receive on weekends/holidays.  In fact, I'm certain there is enough weekend traffic on these routes to justify adding at least 1 lane in each direction on the freeway portions.  And certainly, lanes should be added to at least a good portion of the 2-lane sections.  It can take better than an hour just to drive through the Traverse City area, even during the week.

And I could be wrong, but I believe that much of the Right of Way along US-127 has already been purchased.  I also believe the study was already completed, including the environmental assessment.  It was on the MDOT website a few years ago, but now I can't find it anywhere.  At any rate, a significant amount of money has already been spent on this project, so why abandon it?



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