Michigan Notes

[JREwing78]

If they're going to lay new asphalt on M-30 this season, they're going to have to move quickly. It doesn't look like it'll need a ground up rebuild simply to repave to similar standards as that of M-30 north of M-20.

North into Midland County it actually looks like it's in decent shape and will be fine as is for a while.

SM-G991U

[bulldog1979]

^  So no BEGIN tabs on M-46 like there used to be on M-20.

Well, Photo Nos.1 & 2 show the current assemblies at that location and, alas, the rather unique "BEGIN" treatment didn't transfer from the M-20 terminus down to the new M-46 terminus. But, OTOH, you can see MDOT kept the M-20-using-FHWA-C-while-M-30-uses-FHWA-D situation on the route markers at that intersection. I'm curious to know why you can fit "30" on using FHWA-B but you CANNOT fit "20" on with it? Both have zeros and both have a first digit that are essentially the same width. Curious...

I wondered why the marker for M-22 specifically calls for Series C, while the other two-digit numbers are done in Series D. I think it's because of the digits 0 through 9, only the 2 has a full width at the bottom of the character.

[Flint1979]

They use a begin sign for M-84 at it's southern terminus at M-58.

[jzn110]

^  So no BEGIN tabs on M-46 like there used to be on M-20.

Well, Photo Nos.1 & 2 show the current assemblies at that location and, alas, the rather unique "BEGIN" treatment didn't transfer from the M-20 terminus down to the new M-46 terminus. But, OTOH, you can see MDOT kept the M-20-using-FHWA-C-while-M-30-uses-FHWA-D situation on the route markers at that intersection. I'm curious to know why you can fit "30" on using FHWA-B but you CANNOT fit "20" on with it? Both have zeros and both have a first digit that are essentially the same width. Curious...

At the same exact size, proportion, and position, a "20" in size D would probably result in the bottom left corner of the '2' going off the edge of the diamond.

But that said, I'm pretty sure there are plenty of size-D M-20 signs over here on the west side of the state.

[paulthemapguy]

Pretty sure these are series D.


MI-020-US31ER by Paul Across America, on Flickr


MI-020-US131NS by Paul Across America, on Flickr

I struggle to think of a reason why MDOT can't use Series D for any 2-digit number.  (These 20s are cutting it close.) But that's what I tend to see, anyway, besides the occasional Series C oddball.

[JREwing78]

^  So no BEGIN tabs on M-46 like there used to be on M-20.

Well, Photo Nos.1 & 2 show the current assemblies at that location and, alas, the rather unique "BEGIN" treatment didn't transfer from the M-20 terminus down to the new M-46 terminus. But, OTOH, you can see MDOT kept the M-20-using-FHWA-C-while-M-30-uses-FHWA-D situation on the route markers at that intersection. I'm curious to know why you can fit "30" on using FHWA-B but you CANNOT fit "20" on with it? Both have zeros and both have a first digit that are essentially the same width. Curious...

I'm going to guess that MDOT's sign shop (or their supplier) whipped off a batch of the Series C markers some time ago, and just pulled some out of inventory when it came time to sign the new routing. It's not like they needed a large number of them - clearly not enough to make a full batch. 

Obviously, with the number of M-30 markers needed, that probably merited MDOT ordering up a full batch, which was dutifully done to Series B.

Totally a guess. I can't pretend to know how MDOT's signage operations work, but it's a plausible explanation.

[bessertc]

If they're going to lay new asphalt on M-30 this season, they're going to have to move quickly. It doesn't look like it'll need a ground up rebuild simply to repave to similar standards as that of M-30 north of M-20.

North into Midland County it actually looks like it's in decent shape and will be fine as is for a while.

While I wasn't around in 1962 when M-30 south of US-10 was handed back to county control, I would assume the Midland and Saginaw Co segments were of similar construction and in a similar condition. Both segments feature the typical "state highway"-type shoulders left over from when this was a trunkline prior to 1962, but Midland Co added 3-foot paved shoulders to the overall 7—8-foot shoulder. According to the Saginaw Co Road Commission, Meridian Rd between M-40 and South County Line Rd/Midland—Gratiot County Line Rd was an "All-Season Road" under their control, assumedly due to the "trunkline-quality" of the construction from c.1953—54. The best I can come up with is the 1953—54 paving of Meridian Rd may still be underneath the present-day surface of M-30 in Saginaw Co, while the late-1961 paving may still form the base of today's M-30 in Midland Co, resulting in a better surface in Midland versus Saginaw.

[Flint1979]

I went down Meridan Road from M-20 to M-46 yesterday and only noticed a few signs. One just south of M-20, one just south of Freeland Road and one just south of Tittabawassee/Redstone Road. Outside of that I didn't see any signs on Meridan itself or maybe I missed a few.

[wanderer2575]

just got back from a Trip to Monroe it was a cluster going into Mi what are they doing to the 75 north side ?

Reconstruction between Erie Road and South Otter Creek Road.  Northbound side this year, southbound side next year.  It's phase three of the five-phase reconstruction between the OH/MI state line and I-275.

[bessertc]

I went down Meridan Road from M-20 to M-46 yesterday and only noticed a few signs. One just south of M-20, one just south of Freeland Road and one just south of Tittabawassee/Redstone Road. Outside of that I didn't see any signs on Meridan itself or maybe I missed a few.

Here are the new M-30 reassurance markers I saw (and got photos of many of them) on Saturday:

• M-46/Monroe Rd—Gratiot Rd — nbd only
• Tittabawassee Rd — both directions
• Freeland Rd — both directions
• Pine River/Gordonville Rds — both directions
• Chippewa River Rd — both directions
• M-20/Isabella Rd — sbd (new); nbd (existing)

Yes, there could be more reassurance markers, but maybe Bay Region only puts them after County Primary Roads (which all of the above are). I think some different MDOT Regions have slightly different reassurance route marker policies.

[The Ghostbuster]

Google Maps has been updated to include M-30's re-extension to M-46. At least they didn't drag their feet on that!

[bessertc]

Google Maps has been updated to include M-30's re-extension to M-46. At least they didn't drag their feet on that!

Yeah, I saw Google had updated that back in mid-July. That's when I asked a contact at MDOT what the plan was for actually signing the new extension. She's the one that said the Midland section would be done by mid-August and the Saginaw portion would wait until the "scheduled maintenance project" was completed "hopefully this fall." Obviously, at least some of the signs were placed south of the Midland Co line anyway.

[afguy]

MDOT has published their final version of the PEL study for I-475 in Flint. Some of the highlights of the study includes the following:

• The overall cost will more than double from $300 million to $700 million, due to the additional improvements along the corridor.
  
• The preferred alternative is the reduced footprint with the urban retaining walls
• A potential freeway cap may be added

Here's a link to the final PEL report: https://www.michigan.gov/mdot/-/media/Project/Websites/MDOT/Projects-Studies/Studies/Planning-and-Environmental-Linkages-Studies/I-475/PEL-Report.pdf?rev=63f4edd73d58419dac97ebce8a571b02&hash=1E4CF29F1F4A8A0F623DFF64F9717243

[dvferyance]

I wonder if Michigan will ever reopen the welcome center coming in on US 31 if Indiana upgrades it to a major corridor.

[JREwing78]

I wonder if Michigan will ever reopen the welcome center coming in on US 31 if Indiana upgrades it to a major corridor.

It's kind of odd that MDOT can staff a Welcome Center on lightly-trafficked corridors like US-2, US-141, or US-41, but US-31 and US-131 are neglected. Then again, MDOT has spent the last 20+ years closing rest areas, so it probably shouldn't be surprising.

The real estate is still there for the Welcome Center. Whenever the powers that be decide to make it happen, they can do it. But as long as US-31 in Berrien County was an unfinished red-headed stepchild, building and staffing a rest area was apparently very low priority.

[JREwing78]

I mean, there's *FOUR* freaking rest areas on US-31 between Muskegon and Ludington. Meanwhile, one doesn't encounter a rest area on northbound US-31 until north of South Haven, about an hour north of the Indiana state line.

[JREwing78]

Speaking of rest areas, there's some interesting metadata on this Rest Area map from MDOT:
https://www.michigan.gov/mdot/travel/tourists/rest-areas-and-welcome-centers

There appears to be a hierarchy of route classification that I'm not familiar with on the map. It appears to depict certain routes as higher classification than others, but it doesn't directly follow route numbers or other obvious classification.

For example, while all the interstates are obviously present and accounted for, and routes like M-28, US-2, US-127 and US-31 have this classification in their entirety, US-23 is shown as a "lesser" route north of Standish. US-131 is shown as "lesser" north of Kalkaska, and only the section of US-12 between Coldwater and Ypsilanti is given this "higher" status. M-24 between I-75 and I-69 qualifies. US-223, oddly, does not (despite arguably being more important regionally than US-127 south of US-223).

It also doesn't line up with either the National Functional Classification or the National Highway System classification. It does roughly appear to be the most "important" routes. It's just unclear to me how they were determined, or what that may signify in terms of future highway investment/expansion.

[Flint1979]

Really unless you are going to one of the cities or places along the route like US-23 north of Standish, US-23 can be bypassed if you aren't going to Au Gres, Tawas, Harrisville, Oscoda or Alpena by taking M-65 which part of is the old US-23 route before US-23 was moved to run along the lakeshore. In the summer it's pretty consistent with people coming and going in northern Michigan but when winter comes there are hardly any people around. I've been up north in the winter before and loved the peace and quiet but of course the snow is a pain.

US-31 is pretty much the same way though it goes through the cities but doesn't have a real good bypass route to it like M-65 is to US-23. US-131 and M-231 help. But the travel seasons up there are seasonal, summer weekends expect there to be people around, winter weekends not so much.

[74/171FAN]

I drove by what I think will be a new roundabout at the intersection of US 127 and US 223 last night.

[wanderer2575]

I drove by what I think will be a new roundabout at the intersection of US 127 and US 223 last night.

Yes, it will be a roundabout.

https://www.michigan.gov/mdot/news-outreach/pressreleases/2023/04/06/roundabout-and-resurfacing-project-in-lenawee-county-begins-monday

[Flint1979]

The current design at US-223 and US-127 goes back to when US-127 originally went to Toledo instead of US-223 before US-127 got re-routed onto it's current route. I don't mind these roundabouts but people complain about them a lot. In fact during the widening and resurfacing of I-75 in Saginaw County between 2020 and 2022 two roundabouts were constructed at the M-46 interchange. Some people in Saginaw were complaining about it and I mentioned that the one at M-81 and I-75 has been there since 2006 and everyone seems to use it just fine, one of the comments I got back was from someone that has lived in Saginaw for at least that long and told me that they had never used that interchange before. I told them I find that hard to believe because it's a major interchange with two truck stops and your telling me you never went to Reese or Caro or into the thumb ever?

[paulthemapguy]

I drove by what I think will be a new roundabout at the intersection of US 127 and US 223 last night.

Yes, it will be a roundabout.

https://www.michigan.gov/mdot/news-outreach/pressreleases/2023/04/06/roundabout-and-resurfacing-project-in-lenawee-county-begins-monday

If the intersection qualified for an all-way stop, then I might have also opted for a roundabout instead, as a design/traffic engineer.

[The Ghostbuster]

How common are roundabouts in Michigan? I don't have to tell you how common they are here in Wisconsin.

[JREwing78]

How common are roundabouts in Michigan? I don't have to tell you how common they are here in Wisconsin.

Increasingly so, though not yet at Wisconsin's level.

There's a number of them on US-41/M-28 between Negaunee and Marquette, and a number of freeway interchanges are being rebuilt with them (they can get away with a narrower over- or underpass using them). They're also cropping up in places like the US-127/223 intersection, outside Traverse City on M-72 and US-131, and north of Grand Rapids at M-37 and M-46.

M-99 at M-50 south of Eaton Rapids would be a prime candidate - it's an old-style "fork in the road" intersection that got partially converted into a scrunched-up T intersection. Currently, NBD M-99 takes a sharp right turn to intersect M-50, while SBD traffic to M-99 takes the right fork without stopping. I don't have recent crash statistics there, but it was notoriously bad for NBD M-99 drivers running the stop sign.

[Flint1979]

They are popping up a lot more often now with new construction.

In Saginaw County both the intersection of Swan Creek Road and Merrill Road as well as Swan Creek Road and Hemlock Road are all way stop's now. Swan Creek Road and M-52 has been a nightly all way stop for years, during the day it operates as a normal traffic light.