Canusa Street – How does this work?

[corco]

Ona similar note - I wonder what is the history over here?
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.9946774,-90.008524,18z

Don't know about the history, but the Mississippi/Tennessee line (or state lines in general) just aren't nearly as big a deal as international borders.

Which is exactly why it's so interesting. At first, I figured folks were using those streets as cut-throughs - but I can't imagine traffic on Millbranch and Town & Country is that bad.

My only theory is that the homes on the Mississippi side are multifamily and possibly newer than the single family residences on the Tennessee side. The Tennessee folks probably didn't want that type of housing there, but since it's outside of Memphis and in an entirely different state, they likely had little opportunity to comment on whatever proposed development (or planned land uses generally on the other side of the state line). I'd guess they didn't want poor people living in and cutting through "their" neighborhood and asked Memphis to put up a barrier - hence the prominent neighborhood watch signs. At this point, neither side of the state line is in great shape, but there could have been a much greater socio-economic (possibly race too) gap when it was built.

[vdeane]

While the Mississippi side wouldn't be subject to Memphis zoning, it IS under the same Metropolitan Planning Organization, so planning isn't entirely independent.  I don't think developers would have thought of the state line as something of a barrier, to be developed across only to subvert zoning.  Why would they?  People and goods can move freely across state lines.  It seems like a situation that commonly exists on city/town lines (though my understanding may be influenced by the fact that annexation is essentially impossible for cities in NY).  It is interesting that not many streets cross, though.  I would have thought that the streets would cross the lines freely.

[cpzilliacus]

While the Mississippi side wouldn't be subject to Memphis zoning, it IS under the same Metropolitan Planning Organization, so planning isn't entirely independent.  I don't think developers would have thought of the state line as something of a barrier, to be developed across only to subvert zoning.  Why would they?

MPOs (with the exceptions of Portland, Oregon and to some extent Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota) do not generally tell their member DOTs and local governments how to regulate land use or involve themselves in zoning matters.

As for crossing state lines to avoid certain (usually strict) land use regulation, it has happened repeatedly in Maryland.  The Maryland  suburbs of D.C. have lost thousands of jobs to nearby areas of Virginia in part because zoning in Maryland is tough and expensive to deal with (and in some places there are hyperactive citizens that come out to oppose anything and  everything new). 

Similar story in metropolitan Baltimore, where development is severely restricted in Baltimore County, which has resulted in "leapfrog" development across the state line in York County, Pennsylvania, especially near the state line in places like Shrewsbury Township and the boroughs of Glen Rock and New Freedom, these having morphed into suburbs of Baltimore without the Maryland land use controls and high housing prices that come with that.

[corco]

While the Mississippi side wouldn't be subject to Memphis zoning, it IS under the same Metropolitan Planning Organization, so planning isn't entirely independent.  I don't think developers would have thought of the state line as something of a barrier, to be developed across only to subvert zoning.  Why would they?  People and goods can move freely across state lines.  It seems like a situation that commonly exists on city/town lines (though my understanding may be influenced by the fact that annexation is essentially impossible for cities in NY).  It is interesting that not many streets cross, though.  I would have thought that the streets would cross the lines freely.

What CPZ said re: MPOs. But more generally, this sort of thing happens sometimes even within city limits, due to politics and efforts to make existing homeowners happy, sometimes as a concession by developers.

I'm not arguing that they were trying to "subvert" zoning - merely that, especially in the 70s (?) when it looks like this neighborhood was built, there were likely conflicting land use plans in Memphis and in Mississippi, and the developer chose to develop property in the way it was zoned. There's no subversion - under this theory the developer would have been doing something perfectly above board in Mississippi that the neighbors in Tennessee disliked. The neighbors in Tennessee, being in Tennessee, wouldn't have had much recourse as long as the law in Mississippi was followed. That's not something unusual at all.

As far as gates in roads - it happens sometimes:

I can think of two instances of this in Boise alone where neighbors didn't want multi-family traffic and some commission decided to grant this gate as a concession to the existing neighbors-
https://goo.gl/maps/4Wki3fz47Ns

and this one, where a gate was put up to keep the new subdivision out of the old subdivision - they were eventually forced to leave the gate open, but it was there for years.
https://goo.gl/maps/P7BbnqpgP5R2

[cpzilliacus]

Returning to the border between Canada and the U.S., no discussion is complete (and I think it has been the subject of debate here on AARoads before) without the perhaps even-more ridiculous border situation at Estcourt Station, Maine and its neighbors in Pohénégamook, Québec (Google map here).

[ghYHZ]

Returning to the border between Canada and the U.S., no discussion is complete (and I think it has been the subject of debate here on AARoads before) without the perhaps even-more ridiculous border situation at Estcourt Station, Maine and its neighbors in Pohénégamook, Québec (Google map here).

Look-up the phone for US CBP there...and it has a Quebec number. Power also comes from Hydro Quebec.

[J N Winkler]

The Wikipedia article on Southaven has some details on the politics involved (and in fact is more detailed in this respect than the typical Wikipedia small town/CDP article that regurgitates Census data).  Apparently it is also John Grisham's hometown.

[kalvado]

worst known mess of this type was with India-Bangladesh enclaves on the border: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India%E2%80%93Bangladesh_enclaves
As far as I know, situation is more or less getting resolved, with land swaps and people are allowed to choose if they move to other locations within the country of residence or stay with land and change their citizenship...

[vdeane]

Isn't zoning more a municipal thing than a state thing?

worst known mess of this type was with India-Bangladesh enclaves on the border: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India%E2%80%93Bangladesh_enclaves
As far as I know, situation is more or less getting resolved, with land swaps and people are allowed to choose if they move to other locations within the country of residence or stay with land and change their citizenship...

That would explain why they don't show up on Google Maps any more.

[AsphaltPlanet]

Returning to the border between Canada and the U.S., no discussion is complete (and I think it has been the subject of debate here on AARoads before) without the perhaps even-more ridiculous border situation at Estcourt Station, Maine and its neighbors in Pohénégamook, Québec (Google map here).

This area has an interesting history:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Madawaska

[1995hoo]

Returning to the border between Canada and the U.S., no discussion is complete (and I think it has been the subject of debate here on AARoads before) without the perhaps even-more ridiculous border situation at Estcourt Station, Maine and its neighbors in Pohénégamook, Québec (Google map here).

The Michel Jalabert case underscores the absurdity.

[corco]

Isn't zoning more a municipal thing than a state thing?

Yes either municipal or county, authorized by state enabling laws - I just wasn't sure of what the municipality in Mississippi was called and was too lazy to google it so I used "Mississippi" for simplicity's sake.

[jay8g]

I'm pretty sure Roosevelt Way in Point Roberts was once kind of like this. By the way, I love using that street view picture to demonstrate the stupidity of border crossing stuff...

[MikeTheActuary]

Ona similar note - I wonder what is the history over here?
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.9946774,-90.008524,18z

I've posed the question to my father, who retired a few years ago after 30 years at in the Memphis/Shelby County planning department.

[MikeTheActuary]

I'm pretty sure Roosevelt Way in Point Roberts was once kind of like this. By the way, I love using that street view picture to demonstrate the stupidity of border crossing stuff...

I'm partial to this example, a bit further east: https://goo.gl/maps/LyqNQovY2K92

[freebrickproductions]

I'm pretty sure Roosevelt Way in Point Roberts was once kind of like this. By the way, I love using that street view picture to demonstrate the stupidity of border crossing stuff...

Does anyone know what this sign says?
https://www.google.com/maps/@49.0021414,-123.0887834,3a,15y,159.01h,86.05t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sn3BMhuqOG6JbVKwF0eND9A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

Also, this is probably the closest signal to the US/Canadian border, as the border is just about 6 feet to the south of it according to Google Maps:
https://www.google.com/maps/@49.0023163,-122.4857161,3a,75y,123.89h,106.19t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s-vQyLTDK00LWbRHq5-weCA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3D-vQyLTDK00LWbRHq5-weCA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D98.922646%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

[cl94]

Bet you never thought you'd see campaign signs for senators on a Canadian street. Yes, those were the 2012 Sanders campaign signs. https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.0058524,-72.1401953,3a,26y,113.9h,83.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sstaa7FP5LlH517jMWECrQQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

[corco]

I'm pretty sure Roosevelt Way in Point Roberts was once kind of like this. By the way, I love using that street view picture to demonstrate the stupidity of border crossing stuff...

Does anyone know what this sign says?
https://www.google.com/maps/@49.0021414,-123.0887834,3a,15y,159.01h,86.05t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sn3BMhuqOG6JbVKwF0eND9A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

WARNING!
If you are entering the United States
without presenting yourself to an immigration officer
YOU MAY BE ARRESTED AND PROSECUTED
for violating U.S. Immigration and Customs Laws.

[froggie]

Isn't zoning more a municipal thing than a state thing?

Usually, yes.  In the case of the Twin Cities (since CPZ brought that area up), Minnesota state law gives the Metropolitan Council authority on sewer expansion, which doesn't influence specific developments but does influence local zoning decisions/changes.

[cpzilliacus]

Yes either municipal or county, authorized by state enabling laws - I just wasn't sure of what the municipality in Mississippi was called and was too lazy to google it so I used "Mississippi" for simplicity's sake.

I understand that state law in Texas forbids county governments from zoning their land (but municipalities can, though Houston has famously declined to impose a city zoning ordinance).

[cpzilliacus]

The Michel Jalabert case underscores the absurdity.

Absolutely - a huge waste of federal taxpayer dollars on the U.S. side because he wanted to visit the Gulf station and fill his tank.

[briantroutman]

...American conservatism versus Canadian socialism...

Yes, Vermont: That bastion of American conservatism.

[cpzilliacus]

Returning to the border between Canada and the U.S., no discussion is complete (and I think it has been the subject of debate here on AARoads before) without the perhaps even-more ridiculous border situation at Estcourt Station, Maine and its neighbors in Pohénégamook, Québec (Google map here).

Look-up the phone for US CBP there...and it has a Quebec number. Power also comes from Hydro Quebec.

Funny!  Wonder if the U.S. Department of Homeland Security makes the CBP agents assigned to Estcourt Station learn French?  Probably not. 

I would not put it past someone in the U.S. federal government making a demand that a telephone landline be strung across the Maine woods so the customs station can have an area code 207 phone number.

[cl94]

...American conservatism versus Canadian socialism...

Yes, Vermont: That bastion of American conservatism.

Vermont (and a good portion of rural eastern New York) is a strange place. They're not typical city liberals, as almost everyone owns a gun, but they don't give a damn what you look like or what you do (unlike many conservatives).

[jbnv]

Bet you never thought you'd see campaign signs for senators on a Canadian street. Yes, those were the 2012 Sanders campaign signs. https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.0058524,-72.1401953,3a,26y,113.9h,83.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sstaa7FP5LlH517jMWECrQQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

Considering it's Bernie Sanders, I'm not that surprised.

They're not typical city liberals, as almost everyone owns a gun, but they don't give a damn what you look like or what you do (unlike many conservatives).

Do you actually know many conservatives?