AARoads Forum

https://www.wkyt.com/2023/12/18/new-bill-would-require-chick-fil-a-be-open-sundays/?outputType=apps

This made the news in both Lexington and Louisville.

My comment is, the Thruway Authority knew Chick-Fil-A's hours when they signed the contract with them.

Is the contract with Chic-Fil-A or a franchise?

I'm thinking a possible cop-out solution to this would be for the franchise to just say, "OK then, all Thruway Chick-Fil-As will be Popeye's Chicken instead."

The franchise owner could make their stores whatever they want.

Provided the franchise owner holds both Chick-fil-a and Popeye's agreements. It still would require an expenditure to update the locations, signs at least plus any other branding.

Else, I would expect that Chick-fil-a locations would have a good argument that their franchises along the Thruway should be bought out, with compensation for loss of business and [partial] refunds for initial site preparation.

Not mentioned in the article:  The Bill states this applies to future contracts, not current contracts.

Quote from: hbelkins on December 21, 2023, 11:49:54 AM
My comment is, the Thruway Authority knew Chick-Fil-A's hours when they signed the contract with them.

And it's probably not even between the restaurant and the Authority.  The Authority has a contract with Sweetgreen to manage and operate the Service Plazas, which is a 33 year contract ending around 2050. Sweetgreen is responsible for contracting with individual stores, not the Thruway Authority. Probably nowhere in the agreements between the Authority and Sweetgreens did it call for at least 1 restaurant per service plaza to be open 7 days a week.  Or the agreements allowed the convenience store to double as the 'restaurant', giving motorists an option for food and drink.

That's why this bill states "for future contracts", because it was probably realized there's nothing that can be done under current agreements.  While the media is trying to make it appear CFA is the bad guy here, CFA isn't doing anything wrong outside of their agreement based on what was permitted at the signing of the contracts.

^It's Applegreen by the way.

There was already some discussion of this in the Thruway thread, and being one of those topics that can only go one direction, I'm not necessarily sure it needed to be put on its own pedestal, but here's hoping for the best...

Quote from: GaryV on December 21, 2023, 12:17:13 PM
Provided the franchise owner holds both Chick-fil-a and Popeye's agreements. It still would require an expenditure to update the locations, signs at least plus any other branding.

Else, I would expect that Chick-fil-a locations would have a good argument that their franchises along the Thruway should be bought out, with compensation for loss of business and [partial] refunds for initial site preparation.

Yes, there are both Popeyes and CFA restaurants in different service areas. Moreover, looking at the map it almost like one or the other was chosen to keep certain groups of travellers happy, I.e. whoever planned that specifically was aware of possible issues

The one that really struck me as odd was Chick-Fil-A having a location at the Atlanta Falcons' stadium, though I guess because an MLS team plays home games there the stadium hosts more non-NFL events than it does NFL games.

I appreciate jeffandnicole providing more context on the Thruway issue because I heard about this on the news last night (local news, not national) and, of course, there was no mention made about it applying only to future contracts. But then, we were watching an NBC affiliate, so no doubt they want to paint Chick-Fil-A as evil.

Quote from: 1995hoo on December 21, 2023, 02:07:07 PM
... there was no mention made about it applying only to future contracts. But then, we were watching an NBC affiliate, so no doubt they want to paint Chick-Fil-A as evil.

Even locally, the reports on this (especially headlines) have been ridiculously misleading.  You'd think the bill was requiring state troopers to escort CFA employees immediately to work on Sundays to force them to sell chicken.

That said, I do agree with the premise that service area restaurants should be open 7 days a week. It's laughable for them not to be, and that has nothing to do with CFA, it's just common sense. Especially for weekend days (Fri-Sun) and especially for service areas with only one or two restaurants to begin with.

I usually see Chick-Fil-A commercials during college football games. There are two Chick-Fil-A locations here in Madison, but I've never been to one (my mother doesn't like their political stances).

Quote from: webny99 on December 21, 2023, 01:13:52 PM
^It's Applegreen by the way.

There was already some discussion of this in the Thruway thread, and being one of those topics that can only go one direction, I'm not necessarily sure it needed to be put on its own pedestal, but here's hoping for the best...

In something else I was writing, I said it correctly.  I don't know why I said Sweetgreen here.

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on December 21, 2023, 04:07:15 PM
I usually see Chick-Fil-A commercials during college football games. There are two Chick-Fil-A locations here in Madison, but I've never been to one (my mother doesn't like their political stances).

are you sure you're actually 39 as the forum says?

Quote from: webny99 on December 21, 2023, 03:47:13 PM
That said, I do agree with the premise that service area restaurants should be open 7 days a week. It's laughable for them not to be, and that has nothing to do with CFA, it's just common sense. Especially for weekend days (Fri-Sun) and especially for service areas with only one or two restaurants to begin with.

I agree.  In fact, I think it's arguably more important for service area restaurants to be open week-ends than on week-days.

But I wonder if it has to do with my age.  I'm too young to remember long-distance travel when a large majority of establishments were closed Sundays.  I wonder:  was this sort of situation more common and acceptable back in the 1970s or whatever?

Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 21, 2023, 12:46:11 PM
Not mentioned in the article:  The Bill states this applies to future contracts, not current contracts.

Quote from: hbelkins on December 21, 2023, 11:49:54 AM
My comment is, the Thruway Authority knew Chick-Fil-A's hours when they signed the contract with them.

And it's probably not even between the restaurant and the Authority.  The Authority has a contract with Sweetgreen to manage and operate the Service Plazas, which is a 33 year contract ending around 2050. Sweetgreen is responsible for contracting with individual stores, not the Thruway Authority. Probably nowhere in the agreements between the Authority and Sweetgreens did it call for at least 1 restaurant per service plaza to be open 7 days a week.  Or the agreements allowed the convenience store to double as the 'restaurant', giving motorists an option for food and drink.

That's why this bill states "for future contracts", because it was probably realized there's nothing that can be done under current agreements.  While the media is trying to make it appear CFA is the bad guy here, CFA isn't doing anything wrong outside of their agreement based on what was permitted at the signing of the contracts.

The contract does require one "food concept" to be open 24/7 at all of them bar the "level 1" service areas (Schuyler and DeWitt), but the Applegreen stores count as a "food concept" since they sell cold subs, pre-made pizzas in a warmer, and hot dogs on rollers (except at Schuyler, which only has snack food, frozen breakfast sandwiches, and souvenirs).

Quote from: Jim on December 21, 2023, 02:53:05 PM

Quote from: 1995hoo on December 21, 2023, 02:07:07 PM
... there was no mention made about it applying only to future contracts. But then, we were watching an NBC affiliate, so no doubt they want to paint Chick-Fil-A as evil.

Even locally, the reports on this (especially headlines) have been ridiculously misleading.  You'd think the bill was requiring state troopers to escort CFA employees immediately to work on Sundays to force them to sell chicken.

And then there's the NY Post article, which made it appear that this was retaliation over... political... issues.

Quote from: 1995hoo on December 21, 2023, 02:07:07 PM
The one that really struck me as odd was Chick-Fil-A having a location at the Atlanta Falcons' stadium, though I guess because an MLS team plays home games there the stadium hosts more non-NFL events than it does NFL games.

I appreciate jeffandnicole providing more context on the Thruway issue because I heard about this on the news last night (local news, not national) and, of course, there was no mention made about it applying only to future contracts. But then, we were watching an NBC affiliate, so no doubt they want to paint Chick-Fil-A as evil.

CFA's solution there, is that for Sunday events, a different business uses the spaces that would be used by CFA for other events (in addition to MLS, there are several college football games there).

A solution like that, would also work for toll road service plazas if they really require the space to be open for business all 7 days of the week.

Quote from: ran4sh on December 21, 2023, 09:07:30 PM

Quote from: 1995hoo on December 21, 2023, 02:07:07 PM
The one that really struck me as odd was Chick-Fil-A having a location at the Atlanta Falcons' stadium, though I guess because an MLS team plays home games there the stadium hosts more non-NFL events than it does NFL games.

I appreciate jeffandnicole providing more context on the Thruway issue because I heard about this on the news last night (local news, not national) and, of course, there was no mention made about it applying only to future contracts. But then, we were watching an NBC affiliate, so no doubt they want to paint Chick-Fil-A as evil.

CFA's solution there, is that for Sunday events, a different business uses the spaces that would be used by CFA for other events (in addition to MLS, there are several college football games there).

A solution like that, would also work for toll road service plazas if they really require the space to be open for business all 7 days of the week.

A conversion would be much easier in a stadium though, where concession products can be made in a nearby stand and brought over, or plenty of time to cover or change the Chick-fil-A logos as theres rarely a game on a Saturday or Monday when the stadium is also used Sunday. They wouldn't have the ability to make these changes in a service plaza where the restaurant would be open well into the evening Saturday night, and has to reopen by Monday morning, and the cooking equipment is set to CFA standards.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 21, 2023, 10:13:19 PM

Quote from: ran4sh on December 21, 2023, 09:07:30 PM

Quote from: 1995hoo on December 21, 2023, 02:07:07 PM
The one that really struck me as odd was Chick-Fil-A having a location at the Atlanta Falcons' stadium, though I guess because an MLS team plays home games there the stadium hosts more non-NFL events than it does NFL games.

I appreciate jeffandnicole providing more context on the Thruway issue because I heard about this on the news last night (local news, not national) and, of course, there was no mention made about it applying only to future contracts. But then, we were watching an NBC affiliate, so no doubt they want to paint Chick-Fil-A as evil.

CFA's solution there, is that for Sunday events, a different business uses the spaces that would be used by CFA for other events (in addition to MLS, there are several college football games there).

A solution like that, would also work for toll road service plazas if they really require the space to be open for business all 7 days of the week.

A conversion would be much easier in a stadium though, where concession products can be made in a nearby stand and brought over, or plenty of time to cover or change the Chick-fil-A logos as theres rarely a game on a Saturday or Monday when the stadium is also used Sunday. They wouldn't have the ability to make these changes in a service plaza where the restaurant would be open well into the evening Saturday night, and has to reopen by Monday morning, and the cooking equipment is set to CFA standards.

I'm not familiar with the details of how these specific plazas operate, but the ones I've seen, most of the restaurants/business close at a normal time in the evening with only 1 or 2 being open overnight. The time when CFA is closed should be enough to switch over on Saturday night and Sunday night/Monday morning, but if not, then they could close early on Saturday or open late on Monday, especially considering there would be other restaurants available that stay open the normal hours.

And sure, there is "rarely" both a Saturday and Sunday game at Mercedes-Benz Stadium (Atlanta Falcons), but there are several major events when there is such daily usage. For example, the NFL and/or the Falcons are ok with having a home game on Sunday the day after the SEC football championship on Saturday.

Isn't there one or two service plazas on the thruway upstate where the only option is Chick Fil A and the Random Mini Mart? They should never have had the only real food option on those smaller service plazas be a place that isn't open 7 days a week. I don't know why Burger King or mcDonalds couldn't have used instead. It's definitely an oversight that whoever in the Thruway Authority signed the contracts to Applegreen to have this happen.

And thats to say nothing about a progressive place like NY having Chick Fil A in the rest stops in the first place.

Chittenango is like that.  Applegreen, Starbucks, and CFA.  Nothing else.

Quote from: vdeane on December 22, 2023, 10:06:47 PM
Chittenango is like that.  Applegreen, Starbucks, and CFA.  Nothing else.

With Chittenango already being pretty clearly the worst of the redesigned service areas, no full restaurant 1 day a week just adds insult to injury.

I'll go ahead and say it.  Between the concession "rebuilds and changes" and the EZPass situation that begins in 8 days, it's very clear that the Thruway Authority doesn't care about travelers...only their toll dollars.

Quote from: froggie on December 23, 2023, 03:13:17 PM
I'll go ahead and say it.  Between the concession "rebuilds and changes" and the EZPass situation that begins in 8 days, it's very clear that the Thruway Authority doesn't care about travelers...only their toll dollars.

Welcome to the world of business.
What's the deal with ezpass though?

Now, it is possible that the Thruway and Applegreen miscalculated the issue with using CFA as a vendor.  The NJTA has at least 1 service plaza on both the Turnpike and Parkway with a CFA, but haven't had the uproar that the Thruway currently has.  However, in both instances there's at least one other main restaurant operating at each plaza.  Applegreen screwed up by using CFA as their *only* restaurant at Chittenango.  If they only used CFAs at locations with 2 or more restaurants, the problem is minimized...although still leaves motorists grumbling that a service area restaurant is still closed on what's often a major travel day.

Taking a quick look around, it doesn't appear the PA, OH, DE, MD & FL Turnpikes use CFA as a vendor.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 23, 2023, 04:11:16 PM
Now, it is possible that the Thruway and Applegreen miscalculated the issue with using CFA as a vendor.  The NJTA has at least 1 service plaza on both the Turnpike and Parkway with a CFA, but haven't had the uproar that the Thruway currently has.  However, in both instances there's at least one other main restaurant operating at each plaza.  Applegreen screwed up by using CFA as their *only* restaurant at Chittenango.  If they only used CFAs at locations with 2 or more restaurants, the problem is minimized...although still leaves motorists grumbling that a service area restaurant is still closed on what's often a major travel day.

Taking a quick look around, it doesn't appear the PA, OH, DE, MD & FL Turnpikes use CFA as a vendor.

There is certainly political revenge element here.
But using CFA as the primary anchor facility isn't great. Even 8f there is a Panera, it's not exactly same category of fast food.
I wonder how things would settle, after all directionality of weekend traffic is probably taken into consideration and CFA Sunday impact may be limited

Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 23, 2023, 04:11:16 PM
Now, it is possible that the Thruway and Applegreen miscalculated the issue with using CFA as a vendor.  The NJTA has at least 1 service plaza on both the Turnpike and Parkway with a CFA, but haven't had the uproar that the Thruway currently has.

There was only a little bit of uproar from the Bloomfield, NJ local pols at the time because of the company's founder's viewpoints when the Connie Chung / Brookdale South Rest Area on the GS Parkway was announced to be redone (story from 2022 (https://www.nj.com/news/2022/01/we-dont-want-a-chick-fil-a-on-the-parkway-town-leaders-tell-state-agency.html)) but not because of the Sunday closing. There's a Burger King there too so if a traveler wants price hiked greasy food on a Sunday, the option is there.

This story also made it to a political forum I read as well (mostly users from around the country with some international users), but the pro-/anti-bill seems to be split even bipartisanally. Of course, they aren't as aware of the nuances that we on this board would know about the rest area sizes, how it's only for future contracts, etc. Some of the arguments there not mentioned here about how it might be better for the workers to be closed on a Sunday, first amendment, and also the general complaint about "When the Thruway opened, they said the tollbooths would only remain until the bonds were paid off."

Quote from: kalvado on December 23, 2023, 03:18:41 PM

Quote from: froggie on December 23, 2023, 03:13:17 PM
I'll go ahead and say it.  Between the concession "rebuilds and changes" and the EZPass situation that begins in 8 days, it's very clear that the Thruway Authority doesn't care about travelers...only their toll dollars.

Welcome to the world of business.
What's the deal with ezpass though?

The Thruway is eliminating the out of state E-ZPass rate when the toll increase goes into effect.  Starting 1/1/24, those without a NY E-ZPass will be stuck paying the bill by mail rate, same as if they didn't have an E-ZPass at all.

If it were just me, Chick-fil-A would go bankrupt.

Quote from: vdeane on December 23, 2023, 08:26:36 PM

Quote from: kalvado on December 23, 2023, 03:18:41 PM

Quote from: froggie on December 23, 2023, 03:13:17 PM
I'll go ahead and say it.  Between the concession "rebuilds and changes" and the EZPass situation that begins in 8 days, it's very clear that the Thruway Authority doesn't care about travelers...only their toll dollars.

Welcome to the world of business.
What's the deal with ezpass though?

The Thruway is eliminating the out of state E-ZPass rate when the toll increase goes into effect.  Starting 1/1/24, those without a NY E-ZPass will be stuck paying the bill by mail rate, same as if they didn't have an E-ZPass at all.

They don't vote here anyway

Given the Thruway's general mismanagement, opting to hit the out-of-staters would seem to be the easy way of filling the budget holes.  Sort of allows them to carry on bungling.

Quote from: Rothman on December 23, 2023, 08:57:54 PM
Given the Thruway's general mismanagement, opting to hit the out-of-staters would seem to be the easy way of filling the budget holes.  Sort of allows them to carry on bungling.

I am not sure how 5hat looks from your perspective, probably you see many things I don't.... But by looking at their balance sheet, debt they had to get into for the new bridge is the handicap they cannot deal with. Otherwise they are pretty close to break even.
Given 15 or so years of frozen rates and historical handicaps like I-84 and canal, that's not bad from my perspective.

Quote from: LilianaUwU on December 23, 2023, 08:28:10 PM
If it were just me, Chick-fil-A would go bankrupt.

I do my part by taking all of the ketchup and mayonnaise packets whenever I see them.

Quote from: kalvado on December 23, 2023, 08:55:15 PM

Quote from: vdeane on December 23, 2023, 08:26:36 PM

Quote from: kalvado on December 23, 2023, 03:18:41 PM

Quote from: froggie on December 23, 2023, 03:13:17 PM
I'll go ahead and say it.  Between the concession "rebuilds and changes" and the EZPass situation that begins in 8 days, it's very clear that the Thruway Authority doesn't care about travelers...only their toll dollars.

Welcome to the world of business.
What's the deal with ezpass though?

The Thruway is eliminating the out of state E-ZPass rate when the toll increase goes into effect.  Starting 1/1/24, those without a NY E-ZPass will be stuck paying the bill by mail rate, same as if they didn't have an E-ZPass at all.

They don't vote here anyway

One does not need to reside or vote in NY to obtain a NY EZ Pass.

There was a CFA in the Charlotte-Douglas Airport that is a franchisee run by the contracted airport food service vendor. (ie Aramark, Compass, etc.)

The only difference between them and a standard CFA is the fact that they do not collect purchase points, nor can you use the reward points and you can't use the ePay option from CFA.

When I last spoke to the manager he said CFA Corporate is going to stop allowing food service companies to "sublet" the brand anymore.

There was a recent squabble at DIA (Denver International) about the CFA approval that was up for a vote. Several board members were upset that they were "giving up" a day of revenue by allowing a CFA to use the space 6 days a week. The "revenue" they were referring to was the 3% concession tax each transaction requires.  After public outcry, it passed

Quote from: signalman on December 24, 2023, 05:11:51 AM

Quote from: kalvado on December 23, 2023, 08:55:15 PM

Quote from: vdeane on December 23, 2023, 08:26:36 PM

Quote from: kalvado on December 23, 2023, 03:18:41 PM

Quote from: froggie on December 23, 2023, 03:13:17 PM
I'll go ahead and say it.  Between the concession "rebuilds and changes" and the EZPass situation that begins in 8 days, it's very clear that the Thruway Authority doesn't care about travelers...only their toll dollars.

Welcome to the world of business.
What's the deal with ezpass though?

The Thruway is eliminating the out of state E-ZPass rate when the toll increase goes into effect.  Starting 1/1/24, those without a NY E-ZPass will be stuck paying the bill by mail rate, same as if they didn't have an E-ZPass at all.

They don't vote here anyway

One does not need to reside or vote in NY to obtain a NY EZ Pass.

d.

This story has gone national:

https://www.smerconish.com/daily-poll/?utm_source=aweber&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=voteherebuttonfullsize

Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on December 24, 2023, 12:00:15 PM
This story has gone national:

https://www.smerconish.com/daily-poll/?utm_source=aweber&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=voteherebuttonfullsize

Hardly.

Quote from: signalman on December 24, 2023, 05:11:51 AM

Quote from: kalvado on December 23, 2023, 08:55:15 PM

Quote from: vdeane on December 23, 2023, 08:26:36 PM

Quote from: kalvado on December 23, 2023, 03:18:41 PM

Quote from: froggie on December 23, 2023, 03:13:17 PM
I'll go ahead and say it.  Between the concession "rebuilds and changes" and the EZPass situation that begins in 8 days, it's very clear that the Thruway Authority doesn't care about travelers...only their toll dollars.

Welcome to the world of business.
What's the deal with ezpass though?

The Thruway is eliminating the out of state E-ZPass rate when the toll increase goes into effect.  Starting 1/1/24, those without a NY E-ZPass will be stuck paying the bill by mail rate, same as if they didn't have an E-ZPass at all.

They don't vote here anyway

One does not need to reside or vote in NY to obtain a NY EZ Pass.

But you need to buy yours in person if you don't because then you are assigned the one agency that charges a monthly fee. Also, there is no cost justification for charging the same as Toll by Plate, because the money is already there.

Quote from: MASTERNC on December 24, 2023, 01:06:35 PM

Quote from: signalman on December 24, 2023, 05:11:51 AM

Quote from: kalvado on December 23, 2023, 08:55:15 PM

Quote from: vdeane on December 23, 2023, 08:26:36 PM

Quote from: kalvado on December 23, 2023, 03:18:41 PM

Quote from: froggie on December 23, 2023, 03:13:17 PM
I'll go ahead and say it.  Between the concession "rebuilds and changes" and the EZPass situation that begins in 8 days, it's very clear that the Thruway Authority doesn't care about travelers...only their toll dollars.

Welcome to the world of business.
What's the deal with ezpass though?

The Thruway is eliminating the out of state E-ZPass rate when the toll increase goes into effect.  Starting 1/1/24, those without a NY E-ZPass will be stuck paying the bill by mail rate, same as if they didn't have an E-ZPass at all.

They don't vote here anyway

One does not need to reside or vote in NY to obtain a NY EZ Pass.

But you need to buy yours in person if you don't because then you are assigned the one agency that charges a monthly fee. Also, there is no cost justification for charging the same as Toll by Plate, because the money is already there.

There is little need to justify anything. Everyone is free to shunpike.
It's a bridge - which is if great importance, but got federal money only as a loan - that messes up all the arithmetic. So, get money whenever possible without upstate yelling We aRe sUbSiDizInG tHe CiTy. Pure politics.

As a NYSTA E-ZPass tagholder, part of me likes to see them doing to others what others been doing to me in so many places when traveling.  But really, the whole E-ZPass consortium (if that is the right term) needs to get together and agree that there can be a small extra charge for a non-local tag to cover whatever interoperability and fund transfer costs there are, and agree that the cash/toll-by-plate rates should be just for those payment methods that are likely to incur more real additional costs and/or are that more likely to be unrecoverable for out-of-state plates.  You'd think they'd all want to maximize the incentive for all of their travelers, even those with infrequent travels on these roads, to get a tag from somewhere.

Quote from: Jim on December 24, 2023, 01:40:19 PM
As a NYSTA E-ZPass tagholder, part of me likes to see them doing to others what others been doing to me in so many places when traveling.  But really, the whole E-ZPass consortium (if that is the right term) needs to get together and agree that there can be a small extra charge for a non-local tag to cover whatever interoperability and fund transfer costs there are, and agree that the cash/toll-by-plate rates should be just for those payment methods that are likely to incur more real additional costs and/or are that more likely to be unrecoverable for out-of-state plates.  You'd think they'd all want to maximize the incentive for all of their travelers, even those with infrequent travels on these roads, to get a tag from somewhere.

While I am with you... Consortium is far away and governor is right around the corner....

Quote from: signalman on December 24, 2023, 05:11:51 AM

Quote from: kalvado on December 23, 2023, 08:55:15 PM

Quote from: vdeane on December 23, 2023, 08:26:36 PM

Quote from: kalvado on December 23, 2023, 03:18:41 PM

Quote from: froggie on December 23, 2023, 03:13:17 PM
I'll go ahead and say it.  Between the concession "rebuilds and changes" and the EZPass situation that begins in 8 days, it's very clear that the Thruway Authority doesn't care about travelers...only their toll dollars.

Welcome to the world of business.
What's the deal with ezpass though?

The Thruway is eliminating the out of state E-ZPass rate when the toll increase goes into effect.  Starting 1/1/24, those without a NY E-ZPass will be stuck paying the bill by mail rate, same as if they didn't have an E-ZPass at all.

They don't vote here anyway

One does not need to reside or vote in NY to obtain a NY EZ Pass.

One shouldn't have to get multiple E-ZPass transponders (I actually know someone who has several) to avoid getting ripped off.  Actually, you can't avoid getting ripped off, because you also have to deal with the charges for getting the additional transponders (to be fair, not a Thruway problem as the Thruway is the only agency I know whose tag is 100% free, but everyone else either has a non-refundable tag deposit and/or a monthly or annual fee).  I have a NY tag myself, so this doesn't personally directly affect me, but I would rather move to less transponder discrimination and not more, and the last thing we need is the Pennsylvania Turnpike getting any ideas (seeing as they are both one of the few states left in the IAG to not discriminate, and the most expensive long-distance toll road in the country).

The one thing I miss about cash tolls is how the toll was the toll was the toll.  Didn't matter where you were from or anything else; with the exception of commuter plans that only work if you take a certain number of trips per month, everyone paid the same thing for the same vehicle class.

Having multiple transponders seems to be penny wise and pound foolish to me.

Quote from: signalman on December 24, 2023, 05:11:51 AM

Quote from: kalvado on December 23, 2023, 08:55:15 PM

Quote from: vdeane on December 23, 2023, 08:26:36 PM

Quote from: kalvado on December 23, 2023, 03:18:41 PM

Quote from: froggie on December 23, 2023, 03:13:17 PM
I'll go ahead and say it.  Between the concession "rebuilds and changes" and the EZPass situation that begins in 8 days, it's very clear that the Thruway Authority doesn't care about travelers...only their toll dollars.

Welcome to the world of business.
What's the deal with ezpass though?

The Thruway is eliminating the out of state E-ZPass rate when the toll increase goes into effect.  Starting 1/1/24, those without a NY E-ZPass will be stuck paying the bill by mail rate, same as if they didn't have an E-ZPass at all.

They don't vote here anyway

One does not need to reside or vote in NY to obtain a NY EZ Pass.

Strictly speaking, no.  But I know from personal experience that if you use a non-NY address to get a NY EZPass, they automatically give you a PANYNJ tag.  Which, of course, subejcts one to the monthly service fee for PANYNJ tags.

Quote from: Rothman on December 24, 2023, 06:58:18 PM
Having multiple transponders seems to be penny wise and pound foolish to me.

Depends on how much you travel, I assume. If tolls are a rounding error in you budget, then yes. I can think of situations then its worth the effort though.

I'm not sure this particular provision survived the addition of interoperability with Florida, but the governing agreement for the Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas zone explicitly forbade transponder discrimination.  Any additional costs associated with travel billed through the interoperability hub (which NTTA runs--another reason the acronym allegedly stands for "North Texas' Toughest Anglos") were to be folded into the tolls themselves.

I've long argued we need a Tollpayer's Bill of Rights to prohibit transponder discrimination and to require that access to commuter discount plans (such as the infamous one for the Grand Island bridges) be offered on the same terms regardless of transponder holder's residence.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: If they get rid of transponder discrimination, they're only going to raise the discounted toll rates to the highest rates, not reduce the highest rates to the lower rates.  If you're currently benefiting from a toll discount option, removing the discrimination will cost you in the end.

This is why I disagree with Airports letting Chick-Fil-A set up locations.  Sundays are usually very busy days at airports, especially as the last day of major travel periods like Thanksgiving, Spring Break, and Easter.  Chick-Fil-A is taking away already limited options in the Sterile Area and on Sundays there are other businesses that could use that space.

I love their food, and while I can't tell an owner how to run his/her business, I cannot agree with them leaving usable space useless every week.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 24, 2023, 08:18:16 PM
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: If they get rid of transponder discrimination, they're only going to raise the discounted toll rates to the highest rates, not reduce the highest rates to the lower rates.  If you're currently benefiting from a toll discount option, removing the discrimination will cost you in the end.

Isn't the reason for the discount supposed to be that it costs less to collect tolls from transponder users?

Quote from: froggie on December 24, 2023, 07:29:28 PM

Quote from: signalman on December 24, 2023, 05:11:51 AM

Quote from: kalvado on December 23, 2023, 08:55:15 PM

Quote from: vdeane on December 23, 2023, 08:26:36 PM

Quote from: kalvado on December 23, 2023, 03:18:41 PM

Quote from: froggie on December 23, 2023, 03:13:17 PM
I'll go ahead and say it.  Between the concession "rebuilds and changes" and the EZPass situation that begins in 8 days, it's very clear that the Thruway Authority doesn't care about travelers...only their toll dollars.

Welcome to the world of business.
What's the deal with ezpass though?

The Thruway is eliminating the out of state E-ZPass rate when the toll increase goes into effect.  Starting 1/1/24, those without a NY E-ZPass will be stuck paying the bill by mail rate, same as if they didn't have an E-ZPass at all.

They don't vote here anyway

One does not need to reside or vote in NY to obtain a NY EZ Pass.

Strictly speaking, no.  But I know from personal experience that if you use a non-NY address to get a NY EZPass, they automatically give you a PANYNJ tag.  Which, of course, subejcts one to the monthly service fee for PANYNJ tags.

No, you just pick one up in person and then you get the one of your choice.

Quote from: vdeane on December 24, 2023, 10:02:24 PM

Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 24, 2023, 08:18:16 PM
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: If they get rid of transponder discrimination, they're only going to raise the discounted toll rates to the highest rates, not reduce the highest rates to the lower rates.  If you're currently benefiting from a toll discount option, removing the discrimination will cost you in the end.

Isn't the reason for the discount supposed to be that it costs less to collect tolls from transponder users?

Originally, yes. But when they switched to collecting different amounts from other agency's transponders, they chose to collect the more expensive rate.  While there may be a slight fee to collect from other agencies, it's still cheaper than using toll collectors.  If they have to switch again, they'll probably opt for the revenue to be brought in since it's unlikely motorists will give up their tags, not the savings to be passed along where there's relatively few holdouts who haven't obtained a tag yet. 

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/graham-threatens-war-new-yorks-new-bill-that-would-require-chick-fil-a-open-sundays

Quote from: Alps on December 24, 2023, 10:10:32 PM

Quote from: froggie on December 24, 2023, 07:29:28 PM

Quote from: signalman on December 24, 2023, 05:11:51 AM

Quote from: kalvado on December 23, 2023, 08:55:15 PM

Quote from: vdeane on December 23, 2023, 08:26:36 PM

Quote from: kalvado on December 23, 2023, 03:18:41 PM

Quote from: froggie on December 23, 2023, 03:13:17 PM
I'll go ahead and say it.  Between the concession "rebuilds and changes" and the EZPass situation that begins in 8 days, it's very clear that the Thruway Authority doesn't care about travelers...only their toll dollars.

Welcome to the world of business.
What's the deal with ezpass though?

The Thruway is eliminating the out of state E-ZPass rate when the toll increase goes into effect.  Starting 1/1/24, those without a NY E-ZPass will be stuck paying the bill by mail rate, same as if they didn't have an E-ZPass at all.

They don't vote here anyway

One does not need to reside or vote in NY to obtain a NY EZ Pass.

Strictly speaking, no.  But I know from personal experience that if you use a non-NY address to get a NY EZPass, they automatically give you a PANYNJ tag.  Which, of course, subejcts one to the monthly service fee for PANYNJ tags.

No, you just pick one up in person and then you get the one of your choice.

I *DID* pick mine up in person.  Was forced to a PA tag because I didn't have a NY address.

Quote from: froggie on December 25, 2023, 07:43:41 AM
I *DID* pick mine up in person.  Was forced to a PA tag because I didn't have a NY address.

I was able to get a Thruway tag by getting an "on the go" tag (or whatever they call it) at an upstate grocery store.

Quote from: lstone19 on December 25, 2023, 09:30:40 AM

Quote from: froggie on December 25, 2023, 07:43:41 AM
I *DID* pick mine up in person.  Was forced to a PA tag because I didn't have a NY address.

I was able to get a Thruway tag by getting an "on the go" tag (or whatever they call it) at an upstate grocery store.

Fair enough.  And in full disclosure, it was several years ago when I first got mine.  The "on the go" option didn't exist at the time.

I got mine in like 2014ish by just driving up to Nyack and getting one.

Quote from: edwaleni on December 24, 2023, 11:39:04 AM
There was a CFA in the Charlotte-Douglas Airport that is a franchisee run by the contracted airport food service vendor. (ie Aramark, Compass, etc.)

The only difference between them and a standard CFA is the fact that they do not collect purchase points, nor can you use the reward points and you can't use the ePay option from CFA.

When I last spoke to the manager he said CFA Corporate is going to stop allowing food service companies to "sublet" the brand anymore.

There was a recent squabble at DIA (Denver International) about the CFA approval that was up for a vote. Several board members were upset that they were "giving up" a day of revenue by allowing a CFA to use the space 6 days a week. The "revenue" they were referring to was the 3% concession tax each transaction requires.  After public outcry, it passed

Quote from: signalman on December 24, 2023, 05:11:51 AM

Quote from: kalvado on December 23, 2023, 08:55:15 PM

Quote from: vdeane on December 23, 2023, 08:26:36 PM

Quote from: kalvado on December 23, 2023, 03:18:41 PM

Quote from: froggie on December 23, 2023, 03:13:17 PM
I'll go ahead and say it.  Between the concession "rebuilds and changes" and the EZPass situation that begins in 8 days, it's very clear that the Thruway Authority doesn't care about travelers...only their toll dollars.

Welcome to the world of business.
What's the deal with ezpass though?

The Thruway is eliminating the out of state E-ZPass rate when the toll increase goes into effect.  Starting 1/1/24, those without a NY E-ZPass will be stuck paying the bill by mail rate, same as if they didn't have an E-ZPass at all.

They don't vote here anyway

One does not need to reside or vote in NY to obtain a NY EZ Pass.

d.

The inability to use reward points is not unique to CFA, it seems to apply to all businesses at state service plazas (not just NY but also PA etc). I tried to use points that I have for Auntie Anne's at a service plaza location and they weren't accepted.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 24, 2023, 08:18:16 PM
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: If they get rid of transponder discrimination, they're only going to raise the discounted toll rates to the highest rates, not reduce the highest rates to the lower rates.  If you're currently benefiting from a toll discount option, removing the discrimination will cost you in the end.

I mostly agree, but the thing that screws travelers like me (live in a non-toll area and only visits the Northeast every 4-5 years or so) is that while I would be ok with getting a specific E-ZPass to take advantage of transponder discrimination, most agencies don't allow that kind of inactivity on their account and will either charge a fee or cancel an account for inactivity.

Quote from: ran4sh on December 25, 2023, 12:45:49 PM

I mostly agree, but the thing that screws travelers like me (live in a non-toll area and only visits the Northeast every 4-5 years or so) is that while I would be ok with getting a specific E-ZPass to take advantage of transponder discrimination, most agencies don't allow that kind of inactivity on their account and will either charge a fee or cancel an account for inactivity.

If you are talking about so infrequent situations, extra toll is pretty much a rounding error for planning that trip...

Quote from: kalvado on December 25, 2023, 01:15:31 PM

Quote from: ran4sh on December 25, 2023, 12:45:49 PM

I mostly agree, but the thing that screws travelers like me (live in a non-toll area and only visits the Northeast every 4-5 years or so) is that while I would be ok with getting a specific E-ZPass to take advantage of transponder discrimination, most agencies don't allow that kind of inactivity on their account and will either charge a fee or cancel an account for inactivity.

If you are talking about so infrequent situations, extra toll is pretty much a rounding error for planning that trip...

Not if you're renting a car where without a transponder of your own they'll charge you cash/online/invoice rate (even if you're using their provided transponder) plus a daily (in)convenience fee.

Quote from: lstone19 on December 25, 2023, 01:23:14 PM

Quote from: kalvado on December 25, 2023, 01:15:31 PM

Quote from: ran4sh on December 25, 2023, 12:45:49 PM

I mostly agree, but the thing that screws travelers like me (live in a non-toll area and only visits the Northeast every 4-5 years or so) is that while I would be ok with getting a specific E-ZPass to take advantage of transponder discrimination, most agencies don't allow that kind of inactivity on their account and will either charge a fee or cancel an account for inactivity.

If you are talking about so infrequent situations, extra toll is pretty much a rounding error for planning that trip...

Not if you're renting a car where without a transponder of your own they'll charge you cash/online/invoice rate (even if you're using their provided transponder) plus a daily (in)convenience fee.

As it was mentioned above, getting a transponder - at least in NY - is very easy. Close the account once back home.

Quote from: kalvado on December 25, 2023, 01:26:10 PM

Quote from: lstone19 on December 25, 2023, 01:23:14 PM

Quote from: kalvado on December 25, 2023, 01:15:31 PM

Quote from: ran4sh on December 25, 2023, 12:45:49 PM

I mostly agree, but the thing that screws travelers like me (live in a non-toll area and only visits the Northeast every 4-5 years or so) is that while I would be ok with getting a specific E-ZPass to take advantage of transponder discrimination, most agencies don't allow that kind of inactivity on their account and will either charge a fee or cancel an account for inactivity.

If you are talking about so infrequent situations, extra toll is pretty much a rounding error for planning that trip...

Not if you're renting a car where without a transponder of your own they'll charge you cash/online/invoice rate (even if you're using their provided transponder) plus a daily (in)convenience fee.

As it was mentioned above, getting a transponder - at least in NY - is very easy. Close the account once back home.

Not as easy as you think. Getting an "on the go" transponder requires activating it and then waiting 24 hours before you can use it. Not suitable for immediate use right after you arrive in the state (fortunately when I did it earlier this year, we were heading north from ALB up the Northway for a couple of days before heading on to the Thruway). And closing the account involved sending the transponder back which costs a few bucks to do.

Quote from: lstone19 on December 25, 2023, 01:30:26 PM

Quote from: kalvado on December 25, 2023, 01:26:10 PM

Quote from: lstone19 on December 25, 2023, 01:23:14 PM

Quote from: kalvado on December 25, 2023, 01:15:31 PM

Quote from: ran4sh on December 25, 2023, 12:45:49 PM

I mostly agree, but the thing that screws travelers like me (live in a non-toll area and only visits the Northeast every 4-5 years or so) is that while I would be ok with getting a specific E-ZPass to take advantage of transponder discrimination, most agencies don't allow that kind of inactivity on their account and will either charge a fee or cancel an account for inactivity.

If you are talking about so infrequent situations, extra toll is pretty much a rounding error for planning that trip...

Not if you're renting a car where without a transponder of your own they'll charge you cash/online/invoice rate (even if you're using their provided transponder) plus a daily (in)convenience fee.

As it was mentioned above, getting a transponder - at least in NY - is very easy. Close the account once back home.

Not as easy as you think. Getting an "on the go" transponder requires activating it and then waiting 24 hours before you can use it. Not suitable for immediate use right after you arrive in the state (fortunately when I did it earlier this year, we were heading north from ALB up the Northway for a couple of days before heading on to the Thruway). And closing the account involved sending the transponder back which costs a few bucks to do.

Next day is a strange thing. I thought they used to do instant operation

Quote from: lstone19 on December 25, 2023, 01:30:26 PM

Quote from: kalvado on December 25, 2023, 01:26:10 PM

Quote from: lstone19 on December 25, 2023, 01:23:14 PM

Quote from: kalvado on December 25, 2023, 01:15:31 PM

Quote from: ran4sh on December 25, 2023, 12:45:49 PM

I mostly agree, but the thing that screws travelers like me (live in a non-toll area and only visits the Northeast every 4-5 years or so) is that while I would be ok with getting a specific E-ZPass to take advantage of transponder discrimination, most agencies don't allow that kind of inactivity on their account and will either charge a fee or cancel an account for inactivity.

If you are talking about so infrequent situations, extra toll is pretty much a rounding error for planning that trip...

Not if you're renting a car where without a transponder of your own they'll charge you cash/online/invoice rate (even if you're using their provided transponder) plus a daily (in)convenience fee.

As it was mentioned above, getting a transponder - at least in NY - is very easy. Close the account once back home.

Not as easy as you think. Getting an "on the go" transponder requires activating it and then waiting 24 hours before you can use it. Not suitable for immediate use right after you arrive in the state (fortunately when I did it earlier this year, we were heading north from ALB up the Northway for a couple of days before heading on to the Thruway). And closing the account involved sending the transponder back which costs a few bucks to do.

When I got mine, $15 of the $25 it cost was available immediately.  The remaining $10 is credited to the account once registered if automatic replenishment is set up.  Did something change?

Quote from: vdeane on December 25, 2023, 01:40:52 PM

Quote from: lstone19 on December 25, 2023, 01:30:26 PM

Quote from: kalvado on December 25, 2023, 01:26:10 PM

Quote from: lstone19 on December 25, 2023, 01:23:14 PM

Quote from: kalvado on December 25, 2023, 01:15:31 PM

Quote from: ran4sh on December 25, 2023, 12:45:49 PM

I mostly agree, but the thing that screws travelers like me (live in a non-toll area and only visits the Northeast every 4-5 years or so) is that while I would be ok with getting a specific E-ZPass to take advantage of transponder discrimination, most agencies don't allow that kind of inactivity on their account and will either charge a fee or cancel an account for inactivity.

If you are talking about so infrequent situations, extra toll is pretty much a rounding error for planning that trip...

Not if you're renting a car where without a transponder of your own they'll charge you cash/online/invoice rate (even if you're using their provided transponder) plus a daily (in)convenience fee.

As it was mentioned above, getting a transponder - at least in NY - is very easy. Close the account once back home.

Not as easy as you think. Getting an "on the go" transponder requires activating it and then waiting 24 hours before you can use it. Not suitable for immediate use right after you arrive in the state (fortunately when I did it earlier this year, we were heading north from ALB up the Northway for a couple of days before heading on to the Thruway). And closing the account involved sending the transponder back which costs a few bucks to do.

When I got mine, $15 of the $25 it cost was available immediately.  The remaining $10 is credited to the account once registered if automatic replenishment is set up.  Did something change?

Per https://www.e-zpassny.com/en/onthego/general_info.shtml, "*Important: You must register Tag before using. Tag is available for use the day after registration."

Quote from: lstone19 on December 25, 2023, 01:23:14 PM

Quote from: kalvado on December 25, 2023, 01:15:31 PM

Quote from: ran4sh on December 25, 2023, 12:45:49 PM

I mostly agree, but the thing that screws travelers like me (live in a non-toll area and only visits the Northeast every 4-5 years or so) is that while I would be ok with getting a specific E-ZPass to take advantage of transponder discrimination, most agencies don't allow that kind of inactivity on their account and will either charge a fee or cancel an account for inactivity.

If you are talking about so infrequent situations, extra toll is pretty much a rounding error for planning that trip...

Not if you're renting a car where without a transponder of your own they'll charge you cash/online/invoice rate (even if you're using their provided transponder) plus a daily (in)convenience fee.

When getting a rental car, and you know you're going to need a transponder, various car agencies have different options. Some have all-inclusive options that allow for unlimited tolling at a set price, and others are pay as you go with a daily fee. I've seen options where the fee maxes out as well. It involves a bit of research to determine which option is best.

Quote from: kalvado on December 25, 2023, 01:15:31 PM

Quote from: ran4sh on December 25, 2023, 12:45:49 PM

I mostly agree, but the thing that screws travelers like me (live in a non-toll area and only visits the Northeast every 4-5 years or so) is that while I would be ok with getting a specific E-ZPass to take advantage of transponder discrimination, most agencies don't allow that kind of inactivity on their account and will either charge a fee or cancel an account for inactivity.

If you are talking about so infrequent situations, extra toll is pretty much a rounding error for planning that trip...

This. People will get unusually nitpicky on trying to save a few dollars on tolling, but then spend 30 cents extra on each gallon of gas they fill up with, that would've been cheaper several miles down the road if they had looked at Gas Buddy.

Quote from: kalvado on December 25, 2023, 01:32:24 PM

Quote from: lstone19 on December 25, 2023, 01:30:26 PM

Quote from: kalvado on December 25, 2023, 01:26:10 PM

Quote from: lstone19 on December 25, 2023, 01:23:14 PM

Quote from: kalvado on December 25, 2023, 01:15:31 PM

Quote from: ran4sh on December 25, 2023, 12:45:49 PM

I mostly agree, but the thing that screws travelers like me (live in a non-toll area and only visits the Northeast every 4-5 years or so) is that while I would be ok with getting a specific E-ZPass to take advantage of transponder discrimination, most agencies don't allow that kind of inactivity on their account and will either charge a fee or cancel an account for inactivity.

If you are talking about so infrequent situations, extra toll is pretty much a rounding error for planning that trip...

Not if you're renting a car where without a transponder of your own they'll charge you cash/online/invoice rate (even if you're using their provided transponder) plus a daily (in)convenience fee.

As it was mentioned above, getting a transponder - at least in NY - is very easy. Close the account once back home.

Not as easy as you think. Getting an "on the go" transponder requires activating it and then waiting 24 hours before you can use it. Not suitable for immediate use right after you arrive in the state (fortunately when I did it earlier this year, we were heading north from ALB up the Northway for a couple of days before heading on to the Thruway). And closing the account involved sending the transponder back which costs a few bucks to do.

Next day is a strange thing. I thought they used to do instant operation

By the time I got my EZP it made me wait. Fortunately all for work so I could expense the cash tolls the first day.

Does anyone know if having multiple EZ-Passes from multiple agencies for a single vehicle violates the ToS?

Quote from: RobbieL2415 on December 27, 2023, 07:24:14 AM
Does anyone know if having multiple EZ-Passes from multiple agencies for a single vehicle violates the ToS?

He hasn't posted in a long time, but forum member mtantillo has long had multiple transponders for a single vehicle to take advantage of various discounts and he said he's never had a problem.

Quote from: RobbieL2415 on December 27, 2023, 07:24:14 AM
Does anyone know if having multiple EZ-Passes from multiple agencies for a single vehicle violates the ToS?

No, just make sure you wrap them in foil and use the read-proof bags when not in use.  I say this because the read-proof bags do fail over time and I kept getting double bills (E-ZPass read on one account and a plate debit on another account) because the Maryland Hatem Bridge pass I had was being read despite being in said bag.

I did not know that about the bags.

Still, the idea of going on a long road trip (or not so long, given the various agencies in the Megalopolis) and having to keep remembering which tag to pull out or keep in a bag would be mildly entertaining for a couple of hours, but would quickly become too tedious to be worth it to save a few dollars.

I have multiple tags (MA, NH, ME, TX, FL, CA). It's no real trouble at all to keep them in the glovebox or center console and swap them on the fly. You generally have plenty of time in between different agencies' tolls, not like you're swapping transponders every 5 minutes. It's generally worth it to get the in-state discount if you travel through a state with any regularity, as most are free or cheap enough that you can pay off the extra cost relatively quickly in savings.

HOWEVER, I have begun to run into issues lately with wider adoption of toll-by-plate, particularly in NY and FL - it seems random which agency gets the plate toll if your transponder doesn't get read for whatever reason and your license plate gets looked up instead. I've actually had NYSTA correctly charge the NH transponder I had mounted at the time, but simultaneously bill MA based on looking up my (NH) license plate for the same toll. And disputing toll charges in this situation does work, but is a hassle that (in MA's case) involved physically mailing a letter along with statement copies, and can take months.

I'm debating whether to try and pick up a NYSTA transponder on my next trip through the state, or to just start shunpiking the thruway entirely based on these experiences, the fact that transactions take 2 months to post, and the skyrocketing toll rates.

Yeah, after reading all that, having different transponders is a pain.

I had enough grief having my transponder in a rental and it not getting read for one toll down in FL last month, let alone worrying about double charges due to having more than one transponder in the car or no charges for whatever other reason.

But hey, got that stupid convenience fee refunded, so that was a win.

Quote from: deathtopumpkins on December 27, 2023, 04:12:51 PM
I have multiple tags (MA, NH, ME, TX, FL, CA). It's no real trouble at all to keep them in the glovebox or center console and swap them on the fly. You generally have plenty of time in between different agencies' tolls, not like you're swapping transponders every 5 minutes. It's generally worth it to get the in-state discount if you travel through a state with any regularity, as most are free or cheap enough that you can pay off the extra cost relatively quickly in savings.

HOWEVER, I have begun to run into issues lately with wider adoption of toll-by-plate, particularly in NY and FL - it seems random which agency gets the plate toll if your transponder doesn't get read for whatever reason and your license plate gets looked up instead. I've actually had NYSTA correctly charge the NH transponder I had mounted at the time, but simultaneously bill MA based on looking up my (NH) license plate for the same toll. And disputing toll charges in this situation does work, but is a hassle that (in MA's case) involved physically mailing a letter along with statement copies, and can take months.

I'm debating whether to try and pick up a NYSTA transponder on my next trip through the state, or to just start shunpiking the thruway entirely based on these experiences, the fact that transactions take 2 months to post, and the skyrocketing toll rates.

I don't get why they would look up the plate if a transponder was charged.

But based on my recent experiences with FasTrak (California), I am wondering if having a second transponder in the car, even though in a read-proof bag, causes problems.

I normally travel with both an EZ-Pass (usually my NYSTA pass although sometimes my ISTHA I-Pass) and a FasTrak in computer bag in the read-proof bags (there's also a second FasTrak that lives in our primary car). I've never had a problem with either EZ-Pass (I-Pass) reading when properly mounted even with the FasTrak in the car in the bag - and that's a variety of cars since EZ-Pass/I-Pass use is always in rentals now. But I've had a lot of problems with the FasTrak that resides in our primary car reading and I'm starting to think it's because of the other FasTrak and/or EZ-Pass even though they're both in bags (I meant to leave them home when we take our primary car into FasTrak territory but forgot on the most recent trip - why do I keep a FasTrak in my computer bag? Too much of a chance of having to fly to San Francisco and then rent a car one-way to home in Reno). 

FasTrak is good about charging by license with no extra fee but you get screwed when you're using an express toll lane where the charge is discounted for HOVs based on a transponder setting.

BTW, the express toll lanes have multiple readers over several miles that are combined into one distance based-toll. It only takes them four or five days to do so as compared to the Thruway apparently needing three to four weeks to figure out if 25A was used.

Quote from: Rothman on December 27, 2023, 04:20:04 PM
Yeah, after reading all that, having different transponders is a pain.

I had enough grief having my transponder in a rental and it not getting read for one toll down in FL last month, let alone worrying about double charges due to having more than one transponder in the car or no charges for whatever other reason.

But hey, got that stupid convenience fee refunded, so that was a win.

The lack of "good read" feedback at more and more toll gantries is a real pain in the butt.

Quote from: lstone19 on December 27, 2023, 04:35:26 PM

Quote from: Rothman on December 27, 2023, 04:20:04 PM
Yeah, after reading all that, having different transponders is a pain.

I had enough grief having my transponder in a rental and it not getting read for one toll down in FL last month, let alone worrying about double charges due to having more than one transponder in the car or no charges for whatever other reason.

But hey, got that stupid convenience fee refunded, so that was a win.

The lack of "good read" feedback at more and more toll gantries is a real pain in the butt.

To add insult to injury, read feedback can be implemented on a tag - chip already has a pin for that - but apparently that would drain battery faster and limit tag lifespan

Quote from: kalvado on December 27, 2023, 04:53:24 PM
To add insult to injury, read feedback can be implemented on a tag - chip already has a pin for that - but apparently that would drain battery faster and limit tag lifespan

Probably different technologies than what's currently used here in E-ZPass land, but the car we rented in Lisbon last summer had a transponder that beeped each time it was successfully read.

IMO Chick-fil-A should have authority over the NYT.

Quote from: lstone19 on December 27, 2023, 04:35:26 PM

Quote from: Rothman on December 27, 2023, 04:20:04 PM
Yeah, after reading all that, having different transponders is a pain.

I had enough grief having my transponder in a rental and it not getting read for one toll down in FL last month, let alone worrying about double charges due to having more than one transponder in the car or no charges for whatever other reason.

But hey, got that stupid convenience fee refunded, so that was a win.

The lack of "good read" feedback at more and more toll gantries is a real pain in the butt.

Some of them that offer feedback make it hard to tell what it is. On Saturday night, I used the Dulles Toll Road en route both to and from a restaurant, and on the way out when I exited, there was a bright flash and the display at the toll plaza displayed some sort of message in red that I was unable to read. On the way back home, I proceeded a lot more slowly (maybe 10–15 mph) and got the bright flash again and saw that the red message simply said "EZPASS PAID." Damn annoying to display confirmation of that sort in bright red text the color of a red traffic light. I associate red with a problem (in the old days of shared E-ZPass/exact change lanes, I associated a red light with the transponder not being read), which is why I went slowly on the way home—I assumed there was an error message or similar and I wanted to see what the message said so I'd know whether I needed to replace the transponder or similar.

I might suggest that "bad" or "confusing" transponder feedback can be every bit as problematic as, or possibly worse than, no feedback at all.

Quote from: lstone19 on December 27, 2023, 04:34:02 PM

Quote from: deathtopumpkins on December 27, 2023, 04:12:51 PM
I have multiple tags (MA, NH, ME, TX, FL, CA). It's no real trouble at all to keep them in the glovebox or center console and swap them on the fly. You generally have plenty of time in between different agencies' tolls, not like you're swapping transponders every 5 minutes. It's generally worth it to get the in-state discount if you travel through a state with any regularity, as most are free or cheap enough that you can pay off the extra cost relatively quickly in savings.

HOWEVER, I have begun to run into issues lately with wider adoption of toll-by-plate, particularly in NY and FL - it seems random which agency gets the plate toll if your transponder doesn't get read for whatever reason and your license plate gets looked up instead. I've actually had NYSTA correctly charge the NH transponder I had mounted at the time, but simultaneously bill MA based on looking up my (NH) license plate for the same toll. And disputing toll charges in this situation does work, but is a hassle that (in MA's case) involved physically mailing a letter along with statement copies, and can take months.

I'm debating whether to try and pick up a NYSTA transponder on my next trip through the state, or to just start shunpiking the thruway entirely based on these experiences, the fact that transactions take 2 months to post, and the skyrocketing toll rates.

I don't get why they would look up the plate if a transponder was charged.

Neither do I, and yet, here we are.

For the record I've never had two transponders both get read - only one transponder + a license plate toll, so I think the bags are doing their job, NYSTA's system is just garbage.

Quote from: epzik8 on December 27, 2023, 05:16:45 PM
IMO Chick-fil-A should have authority over the NYT.

It would be their pleasure.  Except on Sundays.

Quote from: 1995hoo on December 27, 2023, 05:26:48 PM
I might suggest that "bad" or "confusing" transponder feedback can be every bit as problematic as, or possibly worse than, no feedback at all.

Imagine how much better things would be if we lived in a first world country, where toll technology is less than 40 years old and things like SMS notifications can be implemented...

I've noticed on various "Facebook Recommends this" posts that numerous publications have picked up on the CFA story, all of which have the misleading headline "CFA may be required to open on Sundays", and a few also link the bill to CFAs operated under PANYNJ contracts (I'm not sure if there are any, and the stories related to the PA seem to be a bit vague).  Depending on the story, it may or may not include the notice that it's for future contracts, not current contracts.  They also made a connection to the NJTA operated CFAs, of which the NY bill will have no effect on.

I originally saw the story on a Louisville TV station's Web site (and Twitter feed). The link I posted was from a Lexington TV station.

Oh, by the way.. does anyone knows what kind of transponder readers are installed on Thruway / Masspike AET systems? Something multiprotocol, or EZ-pass specific?

Quote from: epzik8 on December 27, 2023, 05:16:45 PM
IMO Chick-fil-A should have authority over the NYT.

Imagine the Sunday traffic on local roads when the Thruway is inevitably closed on that day.

Quote from: LilianaUwU on December 27, 2023, 07:38:27 PM

Quote from: epzik8 on December 27, 2023, 05:16:45 PM
IMO Chick-fil-A should have authority over the NYT.

Imagine the Sunday traffic on local roads when the Thruway is inevitably closed on that day.

I am pretty sure this was about the New York Times, not about the road.

Quote from: LilianaUwU on December 27, 2023, 07:38:27 PM

Quote from: epzik8 on December 27, 2023, 05:16:45 PM
IMO Chick-fil-A should have authority over the NYT.

Imagine the Sunday traffic on local roads when the Thruway is inevitably closed on that day.

Interstate 86 would be a lot busier with through traffic, that's for sure.

Quote from: kalvado on December 27, 2023, 07:41:07 PM

Quote from: LilianaUwU on December 27, 2023, 07:38:27 PM

Quote from: epzik8 on December 27, 2023, 05:16:45 PM
IMO Chick-fil-A should have authority over the NYT.

Imagine the Sunday traffic on local roads when the Thruway is inevitably closed on that day.

I am pretty sure this was about the New York Times, not about the road.

The New York Times is already braindead enough in its reporting.

Quote from: LilianaUwU on December 27, 2023, 08:37:23 PM

Quote from: kalvado on December 27, 2023, 07:41:07 PM

Quote from: LilianaUwU on December 27, 2023, 07:38:27 PM

Quote from: epzik8 on December 27, 2023, 05:16:45 PM
IMO Chick-fil-A should have authority over the NYT.

Imagine the Sunday traffic on local roads when the Thruway is inevitably closed on that day.

I am pretty sure this was about the New York Times, not about the road.

The New York Times is already braindead enough in its reporting.

So braindead reporting with chicken sandwich and fries. Any drinks with that?

Quote from: kalvado on December 27, 2023, 07:41:07 PM

Quote from: LilianaUwU on December 27, 2023, 07:38:27 PM

Quote from: epzik8 on December 27, 2023, 05:16:45 PM
IMO Chick-fil-A should have authority over the NYT.

Imagine the Sunday traffic on local roads when the Thruway is inevitably closed on that day.

I am pretty sure this was about the New York Times, not about the road.

Oh no...if there's no New York Times on Sunday, what are cruciverbalists going to do without their Sunday crossword puzzle?

(Yeah, I found that word.  Not in my normal vocabulary)

Quote from: kalvado on December 27, 2023, 06:13:19 PM

Quote from: 1995hoo on December 27, 2023, 05:26:48 PM
I might suggest that "bad" or "confusing" transponder feedback can be every bit as problematic as, or possibly worse than, no feedback at all.

Imagine how much better things would be if we lived in a first world country, where toll technology is less than 40 years old and things like SMS notifications can be implemented...

I don't love the idea of anything that might prompt drivers to look at their phones while driving, although the idea of getting some sort of confirmation is certainly useful. In the same vein, and getting somewhat off topic here, I've occasionally thought that when the time comes to replace our laundry machine, I want the next one to have the capability of either sending you a text message or otherwise pinging a notification via an app to tell you when the laundry is done. With our current machine, I set a timer, but the time the machine shows is only an estimate and it's usually on the low side.

Quote from: 1995hoo on December 28, 2023, 09:34:05 AM

Quote from: kalvado on December 27, 2023, 06:13:19 PM

Quote from: 1995hoo on December 27, 2023, 05:26:48 PM
I might suggest that "bad" or "confusing" transponder feedback can be every bit as problematic as, or possibly worse than, no feedback at all.

Imagine how much better things would be if we lived in a first world country, where toll technology is less than 40 years old and things like SMS notifications can be implemented...

I don't love the idea of anything that might prompt drivers to look at their phones while driving, although the idea of getting some sort of confirmation is certainly useful. In the same vein, and getting somewhat off topic here, I've occasionally thought that when the time comes to replace our laundry machine, I want the next one to have the capability of either sending you a text message or otherwise pinging a notification via an app to tell you when the laundry is done. With our current machine, I set a timer, but the time the machine shows is only an estimate and it's usually on the low side.

I wonder if that would be available as a commercial upgrade for any machine. I can certainly think of a way to do that DYI for less than $10 using an ESP32 controller. 

Quote from: deathtopumpkins on December 27, 2023, 05:30:27 PM
For the record I've never had two transponders both get read - only one transponder + a license plate toll, so I think the bags are doing their job, NYSTA's system is just garbage.

The only time I've ever had this happen was at the Bay Bridge in early 2021, around when MDTA replaced their E-ZPass website - a trip over the Bay Bridge in March posted via transponder the same day. The old ezpassmd.com was replaced with driveezmd.com in late April, then a month later in May the same trip from March posted again via license plate. Presumably a glitch that happened during the website changeover, but luckily MDTA has since gotten their tolling operations back together following the weeks-long posting lags that occurred from that website changeover into fall 2022.

As for the Thruway - I may pick up a NYSTA on-the-go tag whenever I'm next in New York State, and with the way my travels usually go I should typically be able to leave the other tag at home and not have to play tag roulette while on the road. The Tappan Zee Bridge is the NYSTA toll point I hit the most frequently, so getting almost half off with the NYSTA tag might just be worth it over time.

Quote from: 1995hoo on December 27, 2023, 05:26:48 PM
Some of them that offer feedback make it hard to tell what it is. On Saturday night, I used the Dulles Toll Road en route both to and from a restaurant, and on the way out when I exited, there was a bright flash and the display at the toll plaza displayed some sort of message in red that I was unable to read. On the way back home, I proceeded a lot more slowly (maybe 10–15 mph) and got the bright flash again and saw that the red message simply said "EZPASS PAID." Damn annoying to display confirmation of that sort in bright red text the color of a red traffic light. I associate red with a problem (in the old days of shared E-ZPass/exact change lanes, I associated a red light with the transponder not being read), which is why I went slowly on the way home—I assumed there was an error message or similar and I wanted to see what the message said so I'd know whether I needed to replace the transponder or similar.

I might suggest that "bad" or "confusing" transponder feedback can be every bit as problematic as, or possibly worse than, no feedback at all.

I experienced the same thing earlier this month at the New Hope-Lambertville Toll Bridge - the front plate camera is mounted on the same pole as the feedback screen, and the flash was so bright that I couldn't make out what the feedback screen said (also in red text). Coincidentally, the equipment the DTR (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9332526,-77.234213,3a,75y,98.52h,79.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4YSTh5oGFoQYVO4FviKXUA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu) & DRJTBC (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.3781712,-74.9592567,3a,75y,239.5h,81.67t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1scMDmKGXVvASWvdEiNMb__w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu) use look awfully similar.

Quote from: kalvado on December 27, 2023, 07:31:40 PM
Oh, by the way.. does anyone knows what kind of transponder readers are installed on Thruway / Masspike AET systems? Something multiprotocol, or EZ-pass specific?

This might not really answer your question, but FWIW: zooming in at the Masspike's Charlton gantry (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.1533413,-71.9759204,3a,43.3y,263.19h,179t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sfySP1T-eI7Dpo60bG5NDPA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DfySP1T-eI7Dpo60bG5NDPA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D355.56564%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu) & the Thruway's Canaan gantry (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3947901,-73.5014678,3a,38.8y,140.63h,175.47t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sie1NYlTrs-VWwHQAo4y1Wg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu) (the first 2 I thought of) shows that they are manufactured by Kapsch, which is also what the MDTA has used at their new AET gantries (here's the Bay Bridge gantry (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9808054,-76.3297831,3a,37.9y,107.61h,179t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdhQCuIXDIBlok06Maqr68A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu), as an example). For comparison, a quick peek at the Kansas Turnpike (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.2392555,-97.3382215,3a,75y,345.24h,175.87t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSaM8nOOmByS1oZJNOIFI3g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu) & Turner Turnpike (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.7713133,-96.6177625,3a,75y,227.09h,160.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqGEl1rasC9_wFVTlDkrKvA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu) shows their readers are manufactured by TransCore, but beyond all that I know nothing about any potential interoperability (or lack thereof) between Kapsch & TransCore products.

Quote from: jmacswimmer on December 28, 2023, 10:50:04 AM

Quote from: kalvado on December 27, 2023, 07:31:40 PM
Oh, by the way.. does anyone knows what kind of transponder readers are installed on Thruway / Masspike AET systems? Something multiprotocol, or EZ-pass specific?

This might not really answer your question, but FWIW: zooming in at the Masspike's Charlton gantry (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.1533413,-71.9759204,3a,43.3y,263.19h,179t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sfySP1T-eI7Dpo60bG5NDPA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DfySP1T-eI7Dpo60bG5NDPA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D355.56564%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu) & the Thruway's Canaan gantry (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3947901,-73.5014678,3a,38.8y,140.63h,175.47t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sie1NYlTrs-VWwHQAo4y1Wg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu) (the first 2 I thought of) shows that they are manufactured by Kapsch, which is also what the MDTA has used at their new AET gantries (here's the Bay Bridge gantry (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9808054,-76.3297831,3a,37.9y,107.61h,179t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdhQCuIXDIBlok06Maqr68A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu), as an example). For comparison, a quick peek at the Kansas Turnpike (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.2392555,-97.3382215,3a,75y,345.24h,175.87t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSaM8nOOmByS1oZJNOIFI3g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu) & Turner Turnpike (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.7713133,-96.6177625,3a,75y,227.09h,160.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqGEl1rasC9_wFVTlDkrKvA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu) shows their readers are manufactured by TransCore, but beyond all that I know nothing about any potential interoperability (or lack thereof) between Kapsch & TransCore products.

Actually I did some digging, thanks to @J N Winkler for guidance.
Yes, Thruway specifies Kapsch antenna - but I couldn't find a spec for the reader. However, Kapsch only sells one reader model - which supports multiprotocol processing out of the box.  I wonder if AET transition had a second goal of purging out old TDM-only equipment?
So while Thruway doesn't accept anything but EZpass (TDM) at this point, they now have the interoperability hardware to support many other systems. Old CA Title21 is not supported, for example, but CA is switching to 6C standard, phasing out T21.

So my gut feeling more interoperability - potentially nationwide - is in the works. 6C seems to be the likely winner. And a new EZpass standard may be coming.

Quote from: kalvado on December 28, 2023, 11:12:13 AM

Quote from: jmacswimmer on December 28, 2023, 10:50:04 AM

Quote from: kalvado on December 27, 2023, 07:31:40 PM
Oh, by the way.. does anyone knows what kind of transponder readers are installed on Thruway / Masspike AET systems? Something multiprotocol, or EZ-pass specific?

This might not really answer your question, but FWIW: zooming in at the Masspike's Charlton gantry (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.1533413,-71.9759204,3a,43.3y,263.19h,179t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sfySP1T-eI7Dpo60bG5NDPA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DfySP1T-eI7Dpo60bG5NDPA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D355.56564%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu) & the Thruway's Canaan gantry (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3947901,-73.5014678,3a,38.8y,140.63h,175.47t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sie1NYlTrs-VWwHQAo4y1Wg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu) (the first 2 I thought of) shows that they are manufactured by Kapsch, which is also what the MDTA has used at their new AET gantries (here's the Bay Bridge gantry (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9808054,-76.3297831,3a,37.9y,107.61h,179t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdhQCuIXDIBlok06Maqr68A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu), as an example). For comparison, a quick peek at the Kansas Turnpike (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.2392555,-97.3382215,3a,75y,345.24h,175.87t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSaM8nOOmByS1oZJNOIFI3g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu) & Turner Turnpike (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.7713133,-96.6177625,3a,75y,227.09h,160.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqGEl1rasC9_wFVTlDkrKvA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu) shows their readers are manufactured by TransCore, but beyond all that I know nothing about any potential interoperability (or lack thereof) between Kapsch & TransCore products.

Actually I did some digging, thanks to @J N Winkler for guidance.
Yes, Thruway specifies Kapsch antenna - but I couldn't find a spec for the reader. However, Kapsch only sells one reader model - which supports multiprotocol processing out of the box.  I wonder if AET transition had a second goal of purging out old TDM-only equipment?
So while Thruway doesn't accept anything but EZpass (TDM) at this point, they now have the interoperability hardware to support many other systems. Old CA Title21 is not supported, for example, but CA is switching to 6C standard, phasing out T21.

So my gut feeling more interoperability - potentially nationwide - is in the works. 6C seems to be the likely winner. And a new EZpass standard may be coming.

Your post reminded me (and now I'm just plain curious as well) - a few years back, MDTA replaced all the tag readers along the ICC from a much smaller rectangle (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0833152,-76.9655679,3a,75y,259.27h,103.89t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1si7RX5koaB0VWKk5USZbTAg!2e0!5s20181001T000000!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu) (can't tell if they were also Kapsch or not) to the same-sized Kapsch readers (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0833191,-76.9655835,3a,75y,259.27h,103.89t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s0or-OECeb7c9DCumERhq2g!2e0!5s20221101T000000!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu) I linked in the Thruway & Masspike examples. It also looks like the PTC did the exact same replacement at the Gateway (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.9042215,-80.4946901,3a,75y,131.07h,84.54t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s2i-3zP_kPiPSRYKQva3T6w!2e0!5s20220801T000000!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu) & Delaware River Bridge (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1210472,-74.8445848,3a,75y,304.1h,97.2t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s5ZigW0-oQIFb3BOE4BB5Rg!2e0!5s20220501T000000!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu) gantries - now I wonder whether or not this is related to future interoperability as you mention.

Interestingly enough though, it looks like PTC has now switched to TransCore at some of their newest gantries - the new Warrendale gantry (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6536746,-80.0643654,3a,52.6y,306.68h,113.5t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHnEvgstCJofYIoejQMCC_w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu), as well as 2 of the 3 (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.3581177,-80.2129292,3a,43.2y,317.84h,115.81t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sL0WN3ahVPOk5f-_482vkew!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu) Southern Beltway (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4140402,-80.3150355,3a,75y,155.79h,156.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sMz3eHSuBQK_b5S_pB6gZRw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu) gantries (the gantry along the older stretch from I-376 to US 22 still has Kapsch (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4610448,-80.2972628,3a,51.7y,49.44h,113.58t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3HJOUlBxtcQ4UCeR2fEhZw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu)) appear to have the same TransCore readers that the Kansas Turnpike & Turner Turnpike have.

I believe the eventual goal for E-ZPass is to be able to accept 6C transponders in addition to their own.  This has already come up with Peach Pass.

https://peachpass.com/e-zpass/

Quote from: 1995hoo on December 28, 2023, 09:34:05 AM

Quote from: kalvado on December 27, 2023, 06:13:19 PM

Quote from: 1995hoo on December 27, 2023, 05:26:48 PM
I might suggest that "bad" or "confusing" transponder feedback can be every bit as problematic as, or possibly worse than, no feedback at all.

Imagine how much better things would be if we lived in a first world country, where toll technology is less than 40 years old and things like SMS notifications can be implemented...

I don't love the idea of anything that might prompt drivers to look at their phones while driving, although the idea of getting some sort of confirmation is certainly useful. In the same vein, and getting somewhat off topic here, I've occasionally thought that when the time comes to replace our laundry machine, I want the next one to have the capability of either sending you a text message or otherwise pinging a notification via an app to tell you when the laundry is done. With our current machine, I set a timer, but the time the machine shows is only an estimate and it's usually on the low side.

It's not unprecedented.  The Thruway replaced their highway advisory radio system with an app, for instance.

Quote from: froggie on December 25, 2023, 07:43:41 AM

Quote from: Alps on December 24, 2023, 10:10:32 PM

Quote from: froggie on December 24, 2023, 07:29:28 PM

Quote from: signalman on December 24, 2023, 05:11:51 AM

Quote from: kalvado on December 23, 2023, 08:55:15 PM

Quote from: vdeane on December 23, 2023, 08:26:36 PM

Quote from: kalvado on December 23, 2023, 03:18:41 PM

Quote from: froggie on December 23, 2023, 03:13:17 PM
I'll go ahead and say it.  Between the concession "rebuilds and changes" and the EZPass situation that begins in 8 days, it's very clear that the Thruway Authority doesn't care about travelers...only their toll dollars.

Welcome to the world of business.
What's the deal with ezpass though?

The Thruway is eliminating the out of state E-ZPass rate when the toll increase goes into effect.  Starting 1/1/24, those without a NY E-ZPass will be stuck paying the bill by mail rate, same as if they didn't have an E-ZPass at all.

They don't vote here anyway

One does not need to reside or vote in NY to obtain a NY EZ Pass.

Strictly speaking, no.  But I know from personal experience that if you use a non-NY address to get a NY EZPass, they automatically give you a PANYNJ tag.  Which, of course, subejcts one to the monthly service fee for PANYNJ tags.

No, you just pick one up in person and then you get the one of your choice.

I *DID* pick mine up in person.  Was forced to a PA tag because I didn't have a NY address.

Interesting, I believe mine is a standard NY pass (see photo below) and I used a Canadian address*. I ordered it online and it arrived at my house. It also has no monthly fees.

* I think I used a NY zip code since they wouldn't accept a Canadian postal code. Maybe that's why that worked?

(https://i.imgur.com/2e621cvl.jpg)

Quote from: jmacswimmer on December 28, 2023, 12:13:58 PM

Quote from: kalvado on December 28, 2023, 11:12:13 AM

Quote from: jmacswimmer on December 28, 2023, 10:50:04 AM

Quote from: kalvado on December 27, 2023, 07:31:40 PM
Oh, by the way.. does anyone knows what kind of transponder readers are installed on Thruway / Masspike AET systems? Something multiprotocol, or EZ-pass specific?

This might not really answer your question, but FWIW: zooming in at the Masspike's Charlton gantry (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.1533413,-71.9759204,3a,43.3y,263.19h,179t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sfySP1T-eI7Dpo60bG5NDPA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DfySP1T-eI7Dpo60bG5NDPA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D355.56564%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu) & the Thruway's Canaan gantry (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3947901,-73.5014678,3a,38.8y,140.63h,175.47t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sie1NYlTrs-VWwHQAo4y1Wg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu) (the first 2 I thought of) shows that they are manufactured by Kapsch, which is also what the MDTA has used at their new AET gantries (here's the Bay Bridge gantry (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9808054,-76.3297831,3a,37.9y,107.61h,179t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdhQCuIXDIBlok06Maqr68A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu), as an example). For comparison, a quick peek at the Kansas Turnpike (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.2392555,-97.3382215,3a,75y,345.24h,175.87t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSaM8nOOmByS1oZJNOIFI3g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu) & Turner Turnpike (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.7713133,-96.6177625,3a,75y,227.09h,160.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqGEl1rasC9_wFVTlDkrKvA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu) shows their readers are manufactured by TransCore, but beyond all that I know nothing about any potential interoperability (or lack thereof) between Kapsch & TransCore products.

Actually I did some digging, thanks to @J N Winkler for guidance.
Yes, Thruway specifies Kapsch antenna - but I couldn't find a spec for the reader. However, Kapsch only sells one reader model - which supports multiprotocol processing out of the box.  I wonder if AET transition had a second goal of purging out old TDM-only equipment?
So while Thruway doesn't accept anything but EZpass (TDM) at this point, they now have the interoperability hardware to support many other systems. Old CA Title21 is not supported, for example, but CA is switching to 6C standard, phasing out T21.

So my gut feeling more interoperability - potentially nationwide - is in the works. 6C seems to be the likely winner. And a new EZpass standard may be coming.

Your post reminded me (and now I'm just plain curious as well) - a few years back, MDTA replaced all the tag readers along the ICC from a much smaller rectangle (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0833152,-76.9655679,3a,75y,259.27h,103.89t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1si7RX5koaB0VWKk5USZbTAg!2e0!5s20181001T000000!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu) (can't tell if they were also Kapsch or not) to the same-sized Kapsch readers (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0833191,-76.9655835,3a,75y,259.27h,103.89t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s0or-OECeb7c9DCumERhq2g!2e0!5s20221101T000000!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu) I linked in the Thruway & Masspike examples. It also looks like the PTC did the exact same replacement at the Gateway (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.9042215,-80.4946901,3a,75y,131.07h,84.54t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s2i-3zP_kPiPSRYKQva3T6w!2e0!5s20220801T000000!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu) & Delaware River Bridge (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1210472,-74.8445848,3a,75y,304.1h,97.2t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s5ZigW0-oQIFb3BOE4BB5Rg!2e0!5s20220501T000000!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu) gantries - now I wonder whether or not this is related to future interoperability as you mention.

Interestingly enough though, it looks like PTC has now switched to TransCore at some of their newest gantries - the new Warrendale gantry (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6536746,-80.0643654,3a,52.6y,306.68h,113.5t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHnEvgstCJofYIoejQMCC_w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu), as well as 2 of the 3 (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.3581177,-80.2129292,3a,43.2y,317.84h,115.81t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sL0WN3ahVPOk5f-_482vkew!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu) Southern Beltway (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4140402,-80.3150355,3a,75y,155.79h,156.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sMz3eHSuBQK_b5S_pB6gZRw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu) gantries (the gantry along the older stretch from I-376 to US 22 still has Kapsch (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4610448,-80.2972628,3a,51.7y,49.44h,113.58t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3HJOUlBxtcQ4UCeR2fEhZw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu)) appear to have the same TransCore readers that the Kansas Turnpike & Turner Turnpike have.

I wonder if these transponder model differences have any correlation with which states currently do and do not accept Georgia Peach Pass (which is now an E-ZPass member). Peach Pass is accepted in, for example, MD, RI, ME, but some E-ZPass states such as NJ, PA, etc do not currently accept them (see https://peachpass.com/e-zpass/ )

Quote from: ran4sh on January 04, 2024, 01:57:39 PM

Quote from: jmacswimmer on December 28, 2023, 12:13:58 PM

Quote from: kalvado on December 28, 2023, 11:12:13 AM

Quote from: jmacswimmer on December 28, 2023, 10:50:04 AM

Quote from: kalvado on December 27, 2023, 07:31:40 PM
Oh, by the way.. does anyone knows what kind of transponder readers are installed on Thruway / Masspike AET systems? Something multiprotocol, or EZ-pass specific?

This might not really answer your question, but FWIW: zooming in at the Masspike's Charlton gantry (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.1533413,-71.9759204,3a,43.3y,263.19h,179t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sfySP1T-eI7Dpo60bG5NDPA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DfySP1T-eI7Dpo60bG5NDPA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D355.56564%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu) & the Thruway's Canaan gantry (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3947901,-73.5014678,3a,38.8y,140.63h,175.47t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sie1NYlTrs-VWwHQAo4y1Wg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu) (the first 2 I thought of) shows that they are manufactured by Kapsch, which is also what the MDTA has used at their new AET gantries (here's the Bay Bridge gantry (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9808054,-76.3297831,3a,37.9y,107.61h,179t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdhQCuIXDIBlok06Maqr68A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu), as an example). For comparison, a quick peek at the Kansas Turnpike (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.2392555,-97.3382215,3a,75y,345.24h,175.87t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSaM8nOOmByS1oZJNOIFI3g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu) & Turner Turnpike (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.7713133,-96.6177625,3a,75y,227.09h,160.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqGEl1rasC9_wFVTlDkrKvA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu) shows their readers are manufactured by TransCore, but beyond all that I know nothing about any potential interoperability (or lack thereof) between Kapsch & TransCore products.

Actually I did some digging, thanks to @J N Winkler for guidance.
Yes, Thruway specifies Kapsch antenna - but I couldn't find a spec for the reader. However, Kapsch only sells one reader model - which supports multiprotocol processing out of the box.  I wonder if AET transition had a second goal of purging out old TDM-only equipment?
So while Thruway doesn't accept anything but EZpass (TDM) at this point, they now have the interoperability hardware to support many other systems. Old CA Title21 is not supported, for example, but CA is switching to 6C standard, phasing out T21.

So my gut feeling more interoperability - potentially nationwide - is in the works. 6C seems to be the likely winner. And a new EZpass standard may be coming.

Your post reminded me (and now I'm just plain curious as well) - a few years back, MDTA replaced all the tag readers along the ICC from a much smaller rectangle (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0833152,-76.9655679,3a,75y,259.27h,103.89t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1si7RX5koaB0VWKk5USZbTAg!2e0!5s20181001T000000!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu) (can't tell if they were also Kapsch or not) to the same-sized Kapsch readers (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0833191,-76.9655835,3a,75y,259.27h,103.89t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s0or-OECeb7c9DCumERhq2g!2e0!5s20221101T000000!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu) I linked in the Thruway & Masspike examples. It also looks like the PTC did the exact same replacement at the Gateway (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.9042215,-80.4946901,3a,75y,131.07h,84.54t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s2i-3zP_kPiPSRYKQva3T6w!2e0!5s20220801T000000!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu) & Delaware River Bridge (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1210472,-74.8445848,3a,75y,304.1h,97.2t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s5ZigW0-oQIFb3BOE4BB5Rg!2e0!5s20220501T000000!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu) gantries - now I wonder whether or not this is related to future interoperability as you mention.

Interestingly enough though, it looks like PTC has now switched to TransCore at some of their newest gantries - the new Warrendale gantry (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6536746,-80.0643654,3a,52.6y,306.68h,113.5t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHnEvgstCJofYIoejQMCC_w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu), as well as 2 of the 3 (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.3581177,-80.2129292,3a,43.2y,317.84h,115.81t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sL0WN3ahVPOk5f-_482vkew!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu) Southern Beltway (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4140402,-80.3150355,3a,75y,155.79h,156.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sMz3eHSuBQK_b5S_pB6gZRw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu) gantries (the gantry along the older stretch from I-376 to US 22 still has Kapsch (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4610448,-80.2972628,3a,51.7y,49.44h,113.58t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3HJOUlBxtcQ4UCeR2fEhZw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu)) appear to have the same TransCore readers that the Kansas Turnpike & Turner Turnpike have.

I wonder if these transponder model differences have any correlation with which states currently do and do not accept Georgia Peach Pass (which is now an E-ZPass member). Peach Pass is accepted in, for example, MD, RI, ME, but some E-ZPass states such as NJ, PA, etc do not currently accept them (see https://peachpass.com/e-zpass/ )

Well, point is NYSTA now has technical capability  to deal with those poachy tags. That wasn't the case until 2021 or so.

Since this has now turned into an E-ZPass discussion, anyone have the scoop on the best place to get a tag these days?

I just renewed my West Virginia tag (at $26.25, up from $25 last year, but it includes unlimited free passage on the WV Turnpike) and am contemplating scrapping it in favor of a plan with no annual fees. I've been looking at RiverLink but I'm not sure if that would be the best bet for me. Transponder discrimination is real.

Quote from: kalvado on December 25, 2023, 01:15:31 PM

Quote from: ran4sh on December 25, 2023, 12:45:49 PMI mostly agree, but the thing that screws travelers like me (live in a non-toll area and only visits the Northeast every 4-5 years or so) is that while I would be ok with getting a specific E-ZPass to take advantage of transponder discrimination, most agencies don't allow that kind of inactivity on their account and will either charge a fee or cancel an account for inactivity.

If you are talking about so infrequent situations, extra toll is pretty much a rounding error for planning that trip...

Not really. You seem to be thinking that there would just be 2 tolls, the toll going there and the toll returning. But you also have to include the tolls incurred during the stay in the toll road region. For example, usually when I stay in the Northeast we use a toll road for about 2 or 3 trips per day. Sure we could use an alternative route, but it would be much more convenient to just pay the toll and be entitled to the discounts offered.

Quote from: ran4sh on March 29, 2024, 09:19:53 PM

Quote from: kalvado on December 25, 2023, 01:15:31 PM

Quote from: ran4sh on December 25, 2023, 12:45:49 PMI mostly agree, but the thing that screws travelers like me (live in a non-toll area and only visits the Northeast every 4-5 years or so) is that while I would be ok with getting a specific E-ZPass to take advantage of transponder discrimination, most agencies don't allow that kind of inactivity on their account and will either charge a fee or cancel an account for inactivity.

If you are talking about so infrequent situations, extra toll is pretty much a rounding error for planning that trip...

Not really. You seem to be thinking that there would just be 2 tolls, the toll going there and the toll returning. But you also have to include the tolls incurred during the stay in the toll road region. For example, usually when I stay in the Northeast we use a toll road for about 2 or 3 trips per day. Sure we could use an alternative route, but it would be much more convenient to just pay the toll and be entitled to the discounts offered.

It'll depend on where you're vacationing.  If you're doing Toll-by-Plate vs EZ Pass, yeah, that's significant.  If you have an EZ Pass but worried about $5 a day, maybe stay at a place more convenient to where you're not worrying about a minor discount on tolling.