At about 6:50 AM today. https://www.post-gazette.com/local/city/2022/01/28/pittsburgh-bridge-collapse-forbes-braddock-avenue-point-breeze-squirrel-hill/stories/202201280075
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4395152,-79.8993553,401m/data=!3m1!1e3
The ironies are many.
Biden is coming to Pittsburgh TODAY to discuss infrastructure.
It collapsed during a low traffic time period.
The bus only had a driver and two passengers.
The realquestion we should ask is WHY did it fail?
Quote from: davewiecking on January 28, 2022, 08:15:02 AM
At about 6:50 AM today. https://www.post-gazette.com/local/city/2022/01/28/pittsburgh-bridge-collapse-forbes-braddock-avenue-point-breeze-squirrel-hill/stories/202201280075
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4395152,-79.8993553,401m/data=!3m1!1e3
You're the first posting that even bothered to name the bridge or the area, I spent 5 minutes on CNN trying to figure out where the hell it was-then said "never mind, AA Roads is on it" and you were on point!
Quote from: DeaconG on January 28, 2022, 09:56:54 AM
Quote from: davewiecking on January 28, 2022, 08:15:02 AM
At about 6:50 AM today. https://www.post-gazette.com/local/city/2022/01/28/pittsburgh-bridge-collapse-forbes-braddock-avenue-point-breeze-squirrel-hill/stories/202201280075
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4395152,-79.8993553,401m/data=!3m1!1e3
You're the first posting that even bothered to name the bridge or the area, I spent 5 minutes on CNN trying to figure out where the hell it was-then said "never mind, AA Roads is on it" and you were on point!
Heh, I was getting annoyed at CNN for not saying anything more than "near Frick Park," so I looked at Google Maps, found the park, and turned on the traffic display. That made it pretty clear where it had to be. I wonder why they wouldn't say which street–desire not to cause spectators to congregate, maybe?
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 28, 2022, 10:07:25 AM
Quote from: DeaconG on January 28, 2022, 09:56:54 AM
Quote from: davewiecking on January 28, 2022, 08:15:02 AM
At about 6:50 AM today. https://www.post-gazette.com/local/city/2022/01/28/pittsburgh-bridge-collapse-forbes-braddock-avenue-point-breeze-squirrel-hill/stories/202201280075
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4395152,-79.8993553,401m/data=!3m1!1e3
You're the first posting that even bothered to name the bridge or the area, I spent 5 minutes on CNN trying to figure out where the hell it was-then said "never mind, AA Roads is on it" and you were on point!
Heh, I was getting annoyed at CNN for not saying anything more than "near Frick Park," so I looked at Google Maps, found the park, and turned on the traffic display. That made it pretty clear where it had to be. I wonder why they wouldn't say which street–desire not to cause spectators to congregate, maybe?
I pinpointed it using the exact same method.
I also saw a tweet mentioning the area smelled like natural gas post-collapse, so yes they probably do want to keep as many people away as possible.
Besides Forbes Ave over the bridge itself, Google is indicating Braddock Ave is closed as well between PA 8 & I-376.
https://twitter.com/gbarnhisel/status/1487043510322802689?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Perfect opportunity for Biden to hammer home the importance of fixing our infrastructure.
I did read that the gas line has been shut off. So that's good news.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on January 28, 2022, 10:20:22 AM
Perfect opportunity for Biden to hammer home the importance of fixing our infrastructure.
I agree totally. That said, places like Pennsylvania and Iowa who have historically neglected their infrastructure will have larger needs and may very well preempt the things places like the mid-south and southwest need.
The bridge that failed was just over 50 years old. In the scope of things, not that old.
GSV shows deterioration off the roadway on the sides.
Given this is one of many bridges that spans a deep gap below in Pittsburgh (the one over the Parkway East that was just replaced is one example), this will likely cause some alarm (as well as emergency inspections of similarly tall bridges).
Wow, that's a pretty significant artery to/from Pittsburgh too. The trail underneath the bridge actually has Street View, shown here (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4391788,-79.9003246,3a,90y,344.02h,95.58t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sAF1QipNLthLj6biCNJjNOzz1E14mvIna0c_8geVbUMcg!2e10!3e11!7i5760!8i2880!5m1!1e1).
Here's a better (worse?) picture:
https://twitter.com/PghPublicSafety/status/1487060095590612995
And look at this, from over three years ago:
https://twitter.com/gpk320/status/1078885655634157569
This is probably a case of overuse of road salt.
This is very near my former home in Regent Square, so naturally I crossed this bridge many times. It did always feel a little bouncy, didn't it? Or am I just confirmationing that bias?
As to the vagueness of the reports (which frustrated me also), I've found that's pretty common just in general conversation. When I meet someone who says they're also from New York, it can be like pulling teeth to find out where exactly they're from. ("Oh, it's a small town, you probably never heard of it.") News-wise, you'll see similar things with the reporting of weather events and the like. I'm not sure it's the result of intentional obfuscation in most cases.
In any case, this will result in some very unpleasant detours. (Which color detour is designated for this eventuality?) :hmm:
Quote from: empirestate on January 28, 2022, 11:47:33 AM
....
As to the vagueness of the reports (which frustrated me also), I've found that's pretty common just in general conversation. When I meet someone who says they're also from New York, it can be like pulling teeth to find out where exactly they're from. ("Oh, it's a small town, you probably never heard of it.") News-wise, you'll see similar things with the reporting of weather events and the like. I'm not sure it's the result of intentional obfuscation in most cases.
....
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcoachrandom.mrinitialman.com%2FComics%2FSem_1%2Fcalifornia.gif&hash=c61b8fe9f5768dd19930a93965ff855bf2f9e8e1)
Quote from: empirestate on January 28, 2022, 11:47:33 AM
In any case, this will result in some very unpleasant detours. (Which color detour is designated for this eventuality?) :hmm:
I suppose that the Blue Route (not the one in SEPA) will see the largest use.
I'm surprised a span that long and wide was rated for only 26 tons.
A close call all the way around.
GSV from the path underneath the bridge. My wife and I were in Pittsburgh last September and crossed this bridge a couple of times.
https://goo.gl/maps/PTPrVKdvUEzWyAbr9
Quote from: DeaconG on January 28, 2022, 09:56:54 AM
Quote from: davewiecking on January 28, 2022, 08:15:02 AM
At about 6:50 AM today. https://www.post-gazette.com/local/city/2022/01/28/pittsburgh-bridge-collapse-forbes-braddock-avenue-point-breeze-squirrel-hill/stories/202201280075
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4395152,-79.8993553,401m/data=!3m1!1e3
You're the first posting that even bothered to name the bridge or the area, I spent 5 minutes on CNN trying to figure out where the hell it was-then said "never mind, AA Roads is on it" and you were on point!
I got a WaPo alert on my iPad that mentioned Forbes Road over a park, and as others have noted, opened up Google Maps and searched for a bridge over a park. The closed road (marked "until 2024") confirmed the location. Shocked at zero coverage on any of the network morning shows, but CNN had a report. Absolutely amazing nobody was seriously hurt. Snow delays had many people home that otherwise might have been out and about.
I've read that this bridge was rated poor; the rusted cross braces noted in the 3 year old tweet posted by webny99 probably didn't fix themselves.
Quote from: formulanone on January 28, 2022, 12:09:19 PM
I'm surprised a span that long and wide was rated for only 26 tons.
A close call all the way around.
Because of the condition underneath. Maybe it's more surprising they still permitted vehicles up to 26 tons to drive on it.
Quote from: catch22 on January 28, 2022, 12:53:41 PM
GSV from the path underneath the bridge. My wife and I were in Pittsburgh last September and crossed this bridge a couple of times.
https://goo.gl/maps/PTPrVKdvUEzWyAbr9
Looking at the streetview, this bridge was pretty lightly built BEFORE the rust and other damage reduced the capacity even farther. It appears to have been seriously underbuilt and heavily salted.
Fix ya bridges!
I-35W,
Florida pedestrian bridge,
And now this...
Quote from: tolbs17 on January 28, 2022, 03:03:09 PM
Fix ya bridges!
I-35W,
Florida pedestrian bridge,
And now this...
I-35w was due to a design flaw
Quote from: MASTERNC on January 28, 2022, 10:45:01 AM
GSV shows deterioration off the roadway on the sides.
Given this is one of many bridges that spans a deep gap below in Pittsburgh (the one over the Parkway East that was just replaced is one example), this will likely cause some alarm (as well as emergency inspections of similarly tall bridges).
Indeed, as will the fact that the Frick Park bridge is relatively young (built in 1970).
Quote from: kernals12 on January 28, 2022, 03:20:50 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on January 28, 2022, 03:03:09 PM
Fix ya bridges!
I-35W,
Florida pedestrian bridge,
And now this...
I-35w was due to a design flaw
It is fairly easy to write off things as "design flaw", especially if the thing (I-35 bridge in Minneapolis) was in use "just" 40 years and most people involved in construction are retired, if still alive. It is a bit more involved though.
QuoteMajor safety issues identified in this investigation include insufficient bridge design firm quality control procedures for designing bridges, and insufficient Federal and State procedures for reviewing and approving bridge design plans and calculations; lack of guidance for bridge owners with regard to the placement of construction loads on bridges during repair or maintenance activities; exclusion of gusset plates in bridge load rating guidance; lack of inspection guidance for conditions of gusset plate distortion; and inadequate use of technologies for accurately assessing the condition of gusset plates on deck truss bridges.
And regarding inspections...
QuoteEach of the fracture-critical inspection reports from 1994—2006 did note the presence of rust, corrosion, and section loss on gusset plates
Quote from: Dirt Roads on January 28, 2022, 04:02:21 PM
Quote from: MASTERNC on January 28, 2022, 10:45:01 AM
GSV shows deterioration off the roadway on the sides.
Given this is one of many bridges that spans a deep gap below in Pittsburgh (the one over the Parkway East that was just replaced is one example), this will likely cause some alarm (as well as emergency inspections of similarly tall bridges).
Indeed, as will the fact that the Frick Park bridge is relatively young (built in 1970).
That makes it 52 year young, and I thought that is more or less standard design lifetime...
Quote from: tolbs17 on January 28, 2022, 03:03:09 PM
Fix ya bridges!
Florida pedestrian bridge,
And now this...
The Florida bridge was an engineering failure, had nothing to do with fixing anything.
This isn't the first time a bridge built in 1970 collapses. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_la_Concorde_overpass_collapse)
Quote from: LilianaUwU on January 28, 2022, 04:36:04 PM
This isn't the first time a bridge built in 1970 collapses. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_la_Concorde_overpass_collapse)
The Pierre-Laporte bridge is opened in 1970, it's still there but from what I read on this French site with the maintenance and all.
https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1855411/augmentation-couts-travaux-reparation-entretien-pont-pierre-laporte-quebec-infrastructures-mtq-expertise-interne-ingenieurs
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 28, 2022, 02:02:37 PMQuote from: formulanone on January 28, 2022, 12:09:19 PM
I'm surprised a span that long and wide was rated for only 26 tons.
A close call all the way around.
Because of the condition underneath. Maybe it's more surprising they still permitted vehicles up to 26 tons to drive on it.
Since load-posting is a first step for bridges whose structural deficiencies are deemed critical, I expect the decision to post for 26 tons to be put under the microscope: why not a lower weight, and why not close the bridge altogether?
Quote from: kalvado on January 28, 2022, 04:09:18 PMAnd regarding inspections...
QuoteEach of the fracture-critical inspection reports from 1994—2006 did note the presence of rust, corrosion, and section loss on gusset plates
I think the gusset plate issue must have been a continuing blind spot. It wasn't just a question of failure to choose an adequate thickness--the original design was checked using a method that assumes gusset plates will have all the strength required and thus can be ignored. MnDOT commissioned finite element analysis of the bridge
before it collapsed and, from what I can tell, it did not surface the gusset plates as a problem in a way that would have told MnDOT it needed to take urgent action to forestall the collapse.
If the September inspection rated it "poor" is there a lower rating for "failure imminent, close the bridge today"?
Quote from: kkt on January 28, 2022, 05:49:38 PM
If the September inspection rated it "poor" is there a lower rating for "failure imminent, close the bridge today"?
NBI: 4=poor, 3=serious, 2=critical, 1-failure imminent. The failure imminent rating calls for a immediate closure.
Quote from: Big John on January 28, 2022, 05:53:21 PM
Quote from: kkt on January 28, 2022, 05:49:38 PM
If the September inspection rated it "poor" is there a lower rating for "failure imminent, close the bridge today"?
NBI: 4=poor, 3=serious, 2=critical, 1-failure imminent. The failure imminent rating calls for a immediate closure.
Thanks.
Hey, I drove over this bridge back in December! Kinda crazy that it didn't collapse on me while I passed over it.
I'm surprised that a relatively new bridge like this collapsed, but considered the sad state of infrastructure...
Quote from: noelbotevera on January 28, 2022, 08:51:21 PM
Hey, I drove over this bridge back in December! Kinda crazy that it didn't collapse on me while I passed over it.
I'm surprised that a relatively new bridge like this collapsed, but considered the sad state of infrastructure...
And with that happening. Now I'm afraid to drive on the Alligator River Bridge because I feel like that one will collapse next; it's due for a replacement anyway.
The questions I'd like answered is where was this bridge ranked on the list for a major rehab or replacement, and when was that maintenance scheduled (if applicable). We can call for more infrastructure funds, and, for a locally maintained bridge, if it's not ranked in the top several, it's not going to get replaced even if it rains federal money on the local government.
Shouldn't the recent transportation infrastructure cover this?
Fixed thread title, as it's Forbes Avenue, not Forbes Road.
Quote from: SectorZ on January 28, 2022, 04:34:06 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on January 28, 2022, 03:03:09 PM
Fix ya bridges!
Florida pedestrian bridge,
And now this...
The Florida bridge was an engineering failure, had nothing to do with fixing anything.
yup, it was built in an extremely stupid manner, a concrete truss... it would have never worked.
Replacement times were quoted as 1-2 years. With construction on the 376 bridge east of the Squirrel Hill Tunnel to start in 2025 (Forbes would be a natural alternative route), the clock is ticking.
Quote from: zzcarp on January 28, 2022, 11:20:47 PM
The questions I'd like answered is where was this bridge ranked on the list for a major rehab or replacement, and when was that maintenance scheduled (if applicable). We can call for more infrastructure funds, and, for a locally maintained bridge, if it's not ranked in the top several, it's not going to get replaced even if it rains federal money on the local government.
Quote from: roadman65 on January 28, 2022, 11:29:06 PM
Shouldn't the recent transportation infrastructure cover this?
The answer is apparently no (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/collapsed-pittsburgh-bridge-was-rated-poor-condition-rcna14010?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma), the bridge was not a priority, and it wasn't going to have this federal infrastructure money targeted to it to replace it or make repairs.
QuoteBut the bridge is not among the highway and bridge projects targeted for federal funding in the state's 2021 transportation improvement program.
City officials haven't said why the bridge, built in 1970, wasn't placed on the list for federal infrastructure funding.
The 447-foot, steel, rigid frame bridge had an overall 4 rating and was listed in poor condition, according to the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation. Ratings range from 0 to 9, with the highest number receiving an excellent score.
Specifically, the bridge was handed a pair of 4s for its deck and superstructure, but the substructure was rated 6, state transportation records show.
To the smartass mod who keeps taking after FB Fact Check and trying to censor us ( I talked to one of the administrators to find out who you are but he couldn't) I wasn't being political or cracking a wise crack about the infrastructure bill, I was just asking why the commonwealth isn't responding to the money aid that is entitled to them via our government for roads specifically?
I wasn't poking fun at anyone specific nor making a typical Dan joke (that you seem to turn the other way at, that needs the owner himself to take action, but that's another story) when I asked about why the funding wasn't used. You need to stay out of politics which is why you assume that. Also Mr. MOD keep your personal feelings out of this forum!
Quote from: roadman65 on January 29, 2022, 11:38:34 AM
To the smartass mod who keeps taking after FB Fact Check and trying to censor us ( I talked to one of the administrators to find out who you are but he couldn't) I wasn't being political or cracking a wise crack about the infrastructure bill, I was just asking why the commonwealth isn't responding to the money aid that is entitled to them via our government for roads specifically?
I wasn't poking fun at anyone specific nor making a typical Dan joke (that you seem to turn the other way at, that needs the owner himself to take action, but that's another story) when I asked about why the funding wasn't used. You need to stay out of politics which is why you assume that. Also Mr. MOD keep your personal feelings out of this forum!
According to the server logs, the only moderation that has taken place in this thread is rickmastfan67 changing "Road" to "Avenue" in the thread title.
I am going to lay down a marker: the eventual analysis of the collapse will focus on the Forbes Avenue viaduct being an early use of weathering steel in bridge construction, before the importance of drainage detailing was adequately understood.
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 28, 2022, 05:24:04 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 28, 2022, 02:02:37 PMQuote from: formulanone on January 28, 2022, 12:09:19 PM
I'm surprised a span that long and wide was rated for only 26 tons.
A close call all the way around.
Because of the condition underneath. Maybe it's more surprising they still permitted vehicles up to 26 tons to drive on it.
Since load-posting is a first step for bridges whose structural deficiencies are deemed critical, I expect the decision to post for 26 tons to be put under the microscope: why not a lower weight, and why not close the bridge altogether?
Weight-restricted bridges aren't particularly uncommon in Pennsylvania.
Quote from: kevinb1994 on January 28, 2022, 11:53:12 AM
Quote from: empirestate on January 28, 2022, 11:47:33 AM
In any case, this will result in some very unpleasant detours. (Which color detour is designated for this eventuality?) :hmm:
I suppose that the Blue Route (not the one in SEPA) will see the largest use.
:rolleyes:
An emergency project for the bridge replacement has already been entered into PennDOT's CE Expert System (https://www.dotdom2.state.pa.us/ceea/ceeamain03.nsf/18c042d1dacb327c85256c010051898b/85257fc4007728ec852587db004f2595?OpenDocument).
Quote from: tolbs17 on January 28, 2022, 09:31:43 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on January 28, 2022, 08:51:21 PM
Hey, I drove over this bridge back in December! Kinda crazy that it didn't collapse on me while I passed over it.
I'm surprised that a relatively new bridge like this collapsed, but considered the sad state of infrastructure...
And with that happening. Now I'm afraid to drive on the Alligator River Bridge because I feel like that one will collapse next; it's due for a replacement anyway.
I crossed (as a passenger) that bridge on US 64 in 2007 on a Carolinas vacation (making my way up from Charleston to our next stop, the OBX).
The Fern Hollow bridge is now immortalized on Wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fern_Hollow_Bridge
https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2022/01/31/penndot-investment-rebuild-fern-hollow-bridge/
For $25.3 million, that is almost expensive as widening a road from 2 lanes to 4 lanes.
Quote from: ixnay on February 01, 2022, 08:17:35 AM
The Fern Hollow bridge is now immortalized on Wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fern_Hollow_Bridge
Yes, and more was added to it. I see that photos were added.
They got out the Bus & one of the cars yesterday.
https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/video/6193776-port-authority-bus-hoisted-from-site-of-pittsburgh-bridge-collapse/
I am very immature, I immediately saw the name of the park and started laughing my but off.
In all seriousness though, I'm very curious to see what happened. Why was this bridge not higher on the priority list? Was the collapse able to be predicted from the last inspection? If so, why wasn't the bridge closed? Guess I'll just have to wait for the NTSB report.
Quote from: empirestate on January 28, 2022, 11:47:33 AM
This is very near my former home in Regent Square, so naturally I crossed this bridge many times. It did always feel a little bouncy, didn't it? Or am I just confirmationing that bias?
I used to live in Shadyside and this was one of three or four bridges I drove on most frequently. I seem to remember it bouncing as well, particularly while waiting through multiple light cycles around rush hour, but maybe I'm also experiencing some confirmation bias :spin:
Quote from: SGwithADD on February 02, 2022, 03:52:05 AM
Quote from: empirestate on January 28, 2022, 11:47:33 AM
This is very near my former home in Regent Square, so naturally I crossed this bridge many times. It did always feel a little bouncy, didn't it? Or am I just confirmationing that bias?
I used to live in Shadyside and this was one of three or four bridges I drove on most frequently. I seem to remember it bouncing as well, particularly while waiting through multiple light cycles around rush hour, but maybe I'm also experiencing some confirmation bias :spin:
Most bridges are flexible to deal with numerous changes including temperature fluctuations, and by their very nature will "bounce" a bit.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 02, 2022, 07:15:03 AM
Quote from: SGwithADD on February 02, 2022, 03:52:05 AM
Quote from: empirestate on January 28, 2022, 11:47:33 AM
This is very near my former home in Regent Square, so naturally I crossed this bridge many times. It did always feel a little bouncy, didn't it? Or am I just confirmationing that bias?
I used to live in Shadyside and this was one of three or four bridges I drove on most frequently. I seem to remember it bouncing as well, particularly while waiting through multiple light cycles around rush hour, but maybe I'm also experiencing some confirmation bias :spin:
Most bridges are flexible to deal with numerous changes including temperature fluctuations, and by their very nature will "bounce" a bit.
Indeed, and that's what I would have told myself at the time. Now that this has happened, of course I'm going back and wondering why this one sticks out as being particularly bouncy.
It's like that common reaction people have when something calamitous happens: "See? This is why I never [do something that literally never occurred to me not to do until this calamity]." :-P
If a bouncy bridge suddenly becomes un-bouncy, get away from the bridge ASAP.
This was weird, really weird. I'm a student at CMU and I was on a 61 bus over that bridge, bound for Wilkinsburg, the day before. Later that day I was going to be on another one, with some friends, again to Wilkinsburg. It was a little jarring to see the bridge we'd been on the day before and would be on later that day just collapse into the ravine.
And if I'm being honest, I never even realized there was a bridge on Forbes Avenue there. I assume if we'd left a little earlier I would have noticed...
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 02, 2022, 07:15:03 AM
Quote from: SGwithADD on February 02, 2022, 03:52:05 AM
Quote from: empirestate on January 28, 2022, 11:47:33 AM
This is very near my former home in Regent Square, so naturally I crossed this bridge many times. It did always feel a little bouncy, didn't it? Or am I just confirmationing that bias?
I used to live in Shadyside and this was one of three or four bridges I drove on most frequently. I seem to remember it bouncing as well, particularly while waiting through multiple light cycles around rush hour, but maybe I'm also experiencing some confirmation bias :spin:
Most bridges are flexible to deal with numerous changes including temperature fluctuations, and by their very nature will "bounce" a bit.
The Rio Grande Gorge Bridge was super bouncy! It was a little unnerving to stand there, looking down, then suddenly an 18 wheeler goes by and you move 2-3 inches up and down, lol. My grandpa thought that was pretty cool. My grandma didn't.
I think the most movement I have ever felt on a bridge was center span on the Royal Gorge bridge during a windy day. Had to be at least 50 mph gusts. During the really big gusts, the bridge felt like it was "jumping" up about 12-18 inches! That was really interesting. Saw a couple of hats fly into the gorge that day. Would actually kind of like to experience that again, it was a fun sensation.
(https://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/sk020422dAPR20220202094505.jpg)
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 01, 2022, 08:19:46 AM
https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2022/01/31/penndot-investment-rebuild-fern-hollow-bridge/
For $25.3 million, that is almost expensive as widening a road from 2 lanes to 4 lanes.
The video that played while hitting this link had a spokesperson from (I believe) the city department of transportation telling people to use the Parkway instead of side streets to make the connection between east and west sides of the park. She also mentioned that they were working on adjusting singal timing in the area to handle different traffic patterns. [I noticed that the left turn arrow from Braddock to Forbes towards the closed bridge was shown on the video, so hopefully they can work on eliminating that unnecessary signal phase while the bridge is closed, sometime soon. They probably will.]
Some other random comments on this;
Of course with any road story, I do my own peaking around GSV and formulate some thoughts of my own on general issues beyond the collapse.
First, Forbes Ave on both sides of the park, west of Beechwood and east of Braddock, is 1 driving lane in each direction with parking. Between Beechwood and Braddock, there are two driving lanes in each direction. The lanes appear narrow and there are also narrow bike lanes within the park. It would seem that this would be a good candidate for some form of road diet to maintain one lane in each direction, an occasional passing lane in the park*, and protected bike lanes within the park. So basically 3 lanes of traffic and two protected bike lanes within the right of way. The ends of the route, basically the last few feet eastbound approaching Braddock and westbound approaching Beechwood should maintain existing lane assingnments so each direction gets its own lane eastobund. Westbound two lanes will allow for a right turn only lane at Beechwood. The arrangement will also make left turn pockets possible at Dallas Ave.
The weird loop of Beechwood near Dallas also deserves a comment. While I have some ideas for this section, the current arrangement does seem to handle the traffic flows pretty well. THe Beechwood/Dallas intersection should be signalized and coordinated with the Forbes/Dallas intersection that is nearby.
* While not strictly necessary, i could see there being a need for occasionally passing slow moving vehicles in this long stretch. A brief stretch of passing lane in the center in each direction could be provided as there would be room for three vehicle lanes.
Quote from: ixnay on February 04, 2022, 08:17:18 AM
(https://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/sk020422dAPR20220202094505.jpg)
I don't think this bridge is going to be bought by an eccentric British tycoon and put on display in Devon.
Quote from: mrsman on February 04, 2022, 02:40:01 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 01, 2022, 08:19:46 AM
https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2022/01/31/penndot-investment-rebuild-fern-hollow-bridge/
For $25.3 million, that is almost expensive as widening a road from 2 lanes to 4 lanes.
The video that played while hitting this link had a spokesperson from (I believe) the city department of transportation telling people to use the Parkway instead of side streets to make the connection between east and west sides of the park. She also mentioned that they were working on adjusting singal timing in the area to handle different traffic patterns. [I noticed that the left turn arrow from Braddock to Forbes towards the closed bridge was shown on the video, so hopefully they can work on eliminating that unnecessary signal phase while the bridge is closed, sometime soon. They probably will.]
Some other random comments on this;
Of course with any road story, I do my own peaking around GSV and formulate some thoughts of my own on general issues beyond the collapse.
First, Forbes Ave on both sides of the park, west of Beechwood and east of Braddock, is 1 driving lane in each direction with parking. Between Beechwood and Braddock, there are two driving lanes in each direction. The lanes appear narrow and there are also narrow bike lanes within the park. It would seem that this would be a good candidate for some form of road diet to maintain one lane in each direction, an occasional passing lane in the park*, and protected bike lanes within the park. So basically 3 lanes of traffic and two protected bike lanes within the right of way. The ends of the route, basically the last few feet eastbound approaching Braddock and westbound approaching Beechwood should maintain existing lane assingnments so each direction gets its own lane eastobund. Westbound two lanes will allow for a right turn only lane at Beechwood. The arrangement will also make left turn pockets possible at Dallas Ave.
The weird loop of Beechwood near Dallas also deserves a comment. While I have some ideas for this section, the current arrangement does seem to handle the traffic flows pretty well. THe Beechwood/Dallas intersection should be signalized and coordinated with the Forbes/Dallas intersection that is nearby.
* While not strictly necessary, i could see there being a need for occasionally passing slow moving vehicles in this long stretch. A brief stretch of passing lane in the center in each direction could be provided as there would be room for three vehicle lanes.
A road diet on that part of Forbes doesn't seem like a very good idea to me. All of the lanes are pretty important, and it carries a lot of traffic. Consider that most traffic from Oakland and Squirrel Hill into the Parkway, into Wilkinsburg, and into Homewood all follow that stretch of Forbes.
No, it should be rebuilt with all four lanes - and the sooner, the better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_rPZbYHzKk
I've seen big trucks ignore warning signs and they make bridges so vulnerable to collapse which will warrant a rehabilitation or replacement.
I like how warning signs are right next to bridges, but I prefer some to be right at the entrance of the road heading towards the bridge.
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 16, 2022, 03:05:40 PM
I like how warning signs are right next to bridges, but I prefer some to be right at the entrance of the road heading towards the bridge.
This is standard practice in Virginia
PennDOT - District 11 News: Fern Hollow Bridge Design, Construction Advance in Pittsburgh (https://www.penndot.pa.gov/regionaloffices/district-11/pages/details.aspx?newsid=5678)
https://www.cbsnews.com/pittsburgh/news/report-finds-fern-hollow-bridge-appeared-to-have-had-major-decay-just-months-before-collapse/
(video at that link)
PennDOT - District 11 News: Fern Hollow Bridge Beam Deliveries Begin Monday (https://www.penndot.pa.gov/regionaloffices/district-11/pages/details.aspx?newsid=5966)
Update video. They think they can have the replacement bridge open before Christmas! :clap:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEbehb4zIvk
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on September 27, 2022, 09:21:56 AM
Update video. They think they can have the replacement bridge open before Christmas! :clap:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEbehb4zIvk
That seems amazingly fast for construction in 2022. Glad they're working so quickly.
Quote from: zzcarp on September 27, 2022, 10:01:12 AM
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on September 27, 2022, 09:21:56 AM
Update video. They think they can have the replacement bridge open before Christmas! :clap:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEbehb4zIvk
That seems amazingly fast for construction in 2022. Glad they're working so quickly.
They needed to, due to Forbes Avenue being a needed detour route due to upcoming I-376 construction.
A further update - they're on track for Christmas! One lane in each direction, along with the pedestrian path, for now. Full bridge, with two lanes in each direction, should open by late spring 2023.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvMBsGFWzbA
PennDOT-Statewide News: Wolf Cuts Ribbon on Fern Hollow Bridge, Celebrates Government That Works for Pennsylvania (https://www.penndot.pa.gov/pages/all-news-details.aspx?newsid=1007)
Quote from: 74/171FAN on December 21, 2022, 09:06:43 PM
PennDOT-Statewide News: Wolf Cuts Ribbon on Fern Hollow Bridge, Celebrates Government That Works for Pennsylvania (https://www.penndot.pa.gov/pages/all-news-details.aspx?newsid=1007)
"A government that works"? Considering the previous bridge collapsed, I don't know about that.
Quote from: LilianaUwU on December 21, 2022, 09:15:25 PM
Quote from: 74/171FAN on December 21, 2022, 09:06:43 PM
PennDOT-Statewide News: Wolf Cuts Ribbon on Fern Hollow Bridge, Celebrates Government That Works for Pennsylvania (https://www.penndot.pa.gov/pages/all-news-details.aspx?newsid=1007)
"A government that works"? Considering the previous bridge collapsed, I don't know about that.
I mean, I guess they could have just left the bridge in the hollow...
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 22, 2022, 06:19:53 AM
Quote from: LilianaUwU on December 21, 2022, 09:15:25 PM
Quote from: 74/171FAN on December 21, 2022, 09:06:43 PM
PennDOT-Statewide News: Wolf Cuts Ribbon on Fern Hollow Bridge, Celebrates Government That Works for Pennsylvania (https://www.penndot.pa.gov/pages/all-news-details.aspx?newsid=1007)
"A government that works"? Considering the previous bridge collapsed, I don't know about that.
I mean, I guess they could have just left the bridge in the hollow...
You made me think of something like I-35 in Minneapolis would become a "natural case of urban highway removal" these days...
PennDOT - District 11 News: Fern Hollow Bridge Reopens Thursday Afternoon (https://www.penndot.pa.gov/regionaloffices/district-11/pages/details.aspx?newsid=6275)
Video from WPXI-11 showing the bridge open to traffic:
https://www.wpxi.com/video/fern-hollow-bridge-reopens-traffic-day-earlier-than-anticipated-due-incoming-winter-storm/4e3a49d7-4018-40fc-b2b4-3ca5db0aa308/
PennDOT - District 11 News: Fern Hollow Bridge Project Named America's Transportation Awards Finalist for Reconnecting Pittsburgh Communities (https://www.penndot.pa.gov/regionaloffices/district-11/pages/details.aspx?newsid=6863)
PennDOT - Statewide News: State Employees Honored for Replacement of Fern Hollow Bridge in Pittsburgh (https://www.penndot.pa.gov/pages/all-news-details.aspx?newsid=1088)
The CE Expert System documentation has been updated. (https://www.dotdom2.state.pa.us/ceea/ceeamain03.nsf/18c042d1dacb327c85256c010051898b/85257fc4007728ec852588ed0060bb80?OpenDocument)