French Autoroutes

[J N Winkler]

Stop tends to be used where visibilty is restricted unlike North America where it's used almost everywhere. Actually I'm surprised they don't use arret given they are so protective of their language. Even Quebec uses arret.

The French are actually less protective of their language than the Québecois--in France English loanwords are widely used and understood though not considered posh.  In regard to STOP signs, there is actually no provision in the French road code for them to say anything other than STOP.  In Québec the option does exist to use STOP (for signing purposes it is treated as a French word, and so it does not have to be used with ARRÊT), but for a variety of obvious reasons (not the least of which is vandalism), ARRÊT is used almost exclusively except on Canadian federal government property, where the Government Property Traffic Regulations apply and bilingual STOP/ARRÊT is used.

[Chris]

Some pictures of the Autoroute A40 through the Jura Mountains. A rather interesting feat of engineering.

1. All roads lead to Paris.


2. Toll plaza. Most toll gates are eastbound because of the winter season peak (which is mainly concentrated eastbound - into the Alps)


3. This section of Autoroute was completed during the 1980's. France was rather late with a large network, compared to countries like Germany, Italy, the UK, Belgium and the Netherlands.


4. No lack of signs showing off every possible point of touristic interest. The French know how to sell their country.


5. Standard exit signage. The S-numbers are some kind of permanently posted alternate routes.


6. Here we go.


7. Kilometer marker.


8. Roadworks. Until the mid-1990's this section of A40 was only a single roadway with 2 lanes, because of the expense of the second viaducts at that time.


9. Pretty interesting to watch it from this perspective.


10. Jura Mountains.


11. Viaduct of Nantua.


12. From the viaduct straight into a tunnel.


13. Interchange with Autoroute A404 - the road to nowhere.


14. Notice the fog ahead. It turned from abundant sunshine to dense fog within a minute.


15. Interchange with A42.


16. Fog


17. Not sure if this Mâcon has anything to do with Macon, GA


18. Boogie-woogie signs. Not that common, but you see them from time to time.

[Truvelo]

9. Pretty interesting to watch it from this perspective.

We have a stretch in the UK that is very similar.

[agentsteel53]

13. Interchange with Autoroute A404 - the road to nowhere.

I would not be able to interpret this on the fly.  Why is A-404 on a blue sign, while A-40/E-21/E-26 are separate tabs?  Is that the exit number on the white sign kinda buried in the right stack?  What is Hauteville-L. and why does that get a white sign, while Oyonnax gets a blue one?  Does white mean that Hauteville-L. is accessible only via surface streets, while Oyonnax is on the freeway?

On the left set, what is Bourg en B. and why does that get a separate sign instead of being on the same sign as the other three destinations?

also, is there a second split off in the distance?  With the white stuff splitting off A-404?  Again, surface-level streets?

In general, are initials like L. and B. well-known to the local populace?  What about other Europeans not from France?  Given that one can easily drive to France, and many do, are the initials a problem for foreigners?  Or am I just from the wrong continent on this one?

[J N Winkler]

I would not be able to interpret this on the fly.  Why is A-404 on a blue sign, while A-40/E-21/E-26 are separate tabs?  Is that the exit number on the white sign kinda buried in the right stack?  What is Hauteville-L. and why does that get a white sign, while Oyonnax gets a blue one?  Does white mean that Hauteville-L. is accessible only via surface streets, while Oyonnax is on the freeway?

My answers are necessarily speculative since the French do not put their guidelines for direction signing online and I don't have copies of the print publications.  I do, however, have an extensive collection of sign design sheets (well over 1000 pages' worth) culled from dossiers de consultation des entreprises issued by the French equipment ministry and the conseil général for the Haut-Rhin département.  So:

*  Normal practice is for route cartouches to appear as external tabs on pull-through signs, and on the actual sign panel on advance guide and exit direction signs.  I do not know the justification for doing things this way.

*  Yes, that is an exit number on one of the white signboards.  France has numbered junctions since at least 1982, when provision for them was made in an interministerial instruction on direction signing.  Older junction number cartouches had the word "sortie" (italicized, in the L3/L4 typeface) instead of an exit symbol.  The exit symbol was a later development, appearing around 1990, and I think it was borrowed from Spain.  It has spread elsewhere in Europe, notably to Sweden and Finland in recent years.

*  "Hauteville-L." is Hauteville-Lompnes, a mountain town south of the A40 corridor.  In this context I believe it actually indicates the town, rather than functioning as an interchange label.  (The distinction is nontrivial.  If you look at this area closely in Google Maps, you will see that autoroutes have black-on-orange placards superimposed near junctions, with some having number labels while others have name labels.  "Hauteville-Lompnes" appears as a name label on the A404 near the A40 junction, which is numbered 8 on the A40.)  The junction complex gives access to the town of Hauteville-Lompnes from both directions of the A40 by means of the D1084 and D12.  Hauteville-Lompnes is not on the réseau vert, nor are the roads leading to it part of the réseau vert, so it appears against a white background.  Towns on the réseau vert reached from the autoroute by roads on the réseau vert get white-on-green signing.  In general, the color of the last few signs for an exit off the autoroute is appropriate for the standard of the route or route branch reached through the exit.  Multiple colors are used in exit signing assemblies where there is the possibility of reaching different types of routes through the same exit.

*  The connection between D1084 and D12 is made just outside a Zone de développement.  On French guide signs in general, though not this particular set, you will see a bewildering variety of acronyms beginning with Z (e.g., Z.I., Z.A.I.), and all you really need to know is that the Z stands for zone and refers to the fact that the location signed is a designated development area for factories, offices, etc.  It is similar to "business park," "office park," "industrial estate," etc. signing in the UK and the USA, or polígono industrial signing in Spain.

*  Oyonnax appears on blue because it is the terminus town and control city for the A404.

On the left set, what is Bourg en B. and why does that get a separate sign instead of being on the same sign as the other three destinations?

"Bourg en B." = Bourg-en-Bresse.  It is the next significant town on the A40 itinerary.  It appears separately from Paris, Lyon, and Strasbourg because those are long-distance control cities for the A40 as specified by the schéma directeur de signalisation, which for the réseau vert (which includes all autoroutes and all green-line routes nationales) has to be approved by the Minister for Equipment himself.  (Typically this is done on the advice of senior civil servants, which--as in the UK--limits the actual scope for ministerial caprice.)

also, is there a second split off in the distance?  With the white stuff splitting off A-404?  Again, surface-level streets?

No.  What actually happens is that traffic at the A40/A404 interchange (A40 junction 8, as indicated on the sign) is split into two streams after it leaves the A40.  One stream goes to the A404, while the other goes onto the surface roads required to access Hauteville-Lompnes.  The Hauteville-Lompnes traffic never actually touches the A404, so the sign does not describe a future exit off the A404.

In general, are initials like L. and B. well-known to the local populace?  What about other Europeans not from France?  Given that one can easily drive to France, and many do, are the initials a problem for foreigners?  Or am I just from the wrong continent on this one?

I don't think you are from the wrong continent.  I have problems with the initialisms on French signs and I have to point out that these examples are far from the worst.  My collection has multiple examples of initialisms, some involving fraction bars, like "Bourg des Ctes," "s/l," "s/," "/s," etc.  Some are easy to recognize and interpret since they are abbreviations for common French words and phrases like sur, sous, sur la, etc. which are used throughout the country and are familiar both to French drivers and anyone with some rudimentary knowledge of French.  Others are specific to particular placenames and I think they are used on the assumption that they will be decoded easily by locals, who drive frequently on the corridors in question, and by outside drivers who study a French road atlas in advance of their journeys.

In this case, if you had a French road atlas (as I do, though not with me), and studied the A40 itinerary before you set out, you would be likely to correlate "Bourg en B." and "Hauteville-L." with locations shown in the atlas.  Google Maps also allows you to search by the abbreviated placenames and comes up with plausible expansions very quickly.  In fact, I located this interchange in Google Maps by doing a search for {Bourg en B., France}.

A rule of thumb is that if the initialism is the trailing part of a town name, as is the case for both Bourg-en-Bresse and Hauteville-Lompnes, it is a less important part of the town name which gives geographical specificity to the first part of the town name.  The "en B." part of "Bourg en B." is a prepositional phrase which allows Bourg-en-Bresse to be distinguished from the other Bourgs all over France, including Bourg des Comptes.  But if you are on the A40, the only Bourg which could logically be pointed to on that sign is Bourg-en-Bresse (since Bourg des Comptes is clear on the other side of the country, near the Atlantic coast, while the other Bourgs are similarly remote), so the "en B." part does not need to be spelled out.  Similarly, "-L." in "Hauteville-L." allows Hauteville-Lompnes to be distinguished from all the other Hautevilles in France, but does not need to be spelled out because the only Hauteville nearby is Hauteville-Lompnes.

Frankly, I find the initialisms to be more of a nuisance when going through French sign design sheets than when actually driving in or riding in a bus in France.  My knowledge of French geography is very shaky, though in the summer of 2009 I made a systematic effort to remedy this by reading a French road atlas from cover to cover.  I therefore need to have initialisms like "s/L" spelled out (as, e.g., "sur Loire" rather than, say, "sur Lot") to orient myself when I am sitting in my study looking at sign design sheets.

[J N Winkler]

P.S.  To give a somewhat wider idea of what is possible with French autoroute direction signing, I have uploaded the sign design sheets for a major autoroute direction sign replacement in Lorraine (A31/A33/A330):

http://www.fileserve.com/file/YvnZgpj

The PDF file is 6 MB in size and has 403 sheets, all of which are pattern-accurate and in full color.

[agentsteel53]

thanks for all the answers - speculative or otherwise, they make sense.

also, is there a second split off in the distance?  With the white stuff splitting off A-404?  Again, surface-level streets?

No.  What actually happens is that traffic at the A40/A404 interchange (A40 junction 8, as indicated on the sign) is split into two streams after it leaves the A40.  One stream goes to the A404, while the other goes onto the surface roads required to access Hauteville-Lompnes.  The Hauteville-Lompnes traffic never actually touches the A404, so the sign does not describe a future exit off the A404.

I think we are actually in agreement here.  When I say "off in the distance", I meant within a few hundred meters, where the gantry in the background is visible.  So, indeed, the A404 (blue sign) traffic and the surface-level (white sign) traffic splits right there.

except I did not know that the A404 does not start there, but rather, the surface level traffic splits off before the left lane joins up with A404. 

I had thought (since it was signed only in one direction) that A404 began at A40, and therefore that offramp was the beginning of A404... is that not correct?

[Chris]

What's annoying in France are the very long place names, often named after some kind of geographic feature nearby, like a mountain range or river. For example, Ivry-sur-Seine simply means "Ivry on the Seine", and Boulogne-sur-Mer means "Boulogne on sea". But if you're just passing through, unknown to the local river names, you sometimes have no idea what these abbreviations mean. But then again, I never had a problem navigating through France.

A much more annoying feature in the past decade is that the Route Nationales are transferred to the Departements, which means the N20 will get a number like D920 or D2020, making it harder to follow a route number, because the old Route Nationales did make a lot of sense and you could follow them throughout the country. Luckily, the green signs will show you major non-freeway destinations. Toll-free routes are still well signposted.

[J N Winkler]

thanks for all the answers - speculative or otherwise, they make sense.

You're welcome!

also, is there a second split off in the distance?  With the white stuff splitting off A-404?  Again, surface-level streets?

No.  What actually happens is that traffic at the A40/A404 interchange (A40 junction 8, as indicated on the sign) is split into two streams after it leaves the A40.  One stream goes to the A404, while the other goes onto the surface roads required to access Hauteville-Lompnes.  The Hauteville-Lompnes traffic never actually touches the A404, so the sign does not describe a future exit off the A404.

I think we are actually in agreement here.  When I say "off in the distance", I meant within a few hundred meters, where the gantry in the background is visible.  So, indeed, the A404 (blue sign) traffic and the surface-level (white sign) traffic splits right there.

except I did not know that the A404 does not start there, but rather, the surface level traffic splits off before the left lane joins up with A404.  

I had thought (since it was signed only in one direction) that A404 began at A40, and therefore that offramp was the beginning of A404... is that not correct?

It is correct.  The A404 does begin at the A40 and runs north only.  What I actually meant is that traffic headed for Hauteville-Lompnes (the "white" destination) leaves at the A40/A404 interchange complex (which connects with the surface road system) and does not reach the mainline A404.  I am not sure where on the A40/A404 transition the A404 is officially considered to begin.  If this were Spain you could expect to pass an "autovía cancel" sign within the interchange, followed in short order by an "autovía begin" sign also within the interchange, if you were not actually transitioning to the surface road system.  But I don't think France does that.  I know that the UK doesn't because neither the "on" or "off" variant of the chopsticks sign is supposed to appear in any area that is continuously subject to motorway regulations.  In the UK, and I think also in France, you don't actually receive confirmation that you have transitioned successfully to the right road until you pass the first pull-through or route confirmation (distance) sign with the route number at top (part of the sign panel in the UK, tabs at the top in France).

[agentsteel53]

It is correct.  The A404 does begin at the A40 and runs north only.  What I actually meant is that traffic headed for Hauteville-Lompnes (the "white" destination) leaves at the A40/A404 interchange complex (which connects with the surface road system) and does not reach the mainline A404.  I am not sure where on the A40/A404 transition the A404 is officially considered to begin.  If this were Spain you could expect to pass an "autovía cancel" sign within the interchange, followed in short order by an "autovía begin" sign also within the interchange, if you were not actually transitioning to the surface road system.  But I don't think France does that.  I know that the UK doesn't because neither the "on" or "off" variant of the chopsticks sign is supposed to appear in any area that is continuously subject to motorway regulations.  In the UK, and I think also in France, you don't actually receive confirmation that you have transitioned successfully to the right road until you pass the first pull-through or route confirmation (distance) sign with the route number at top (part of the sign panel in the UK, tabs at the top in France).

so each country has a different definition of where a freeway begins or ends?  I think in the US, the connecting ramps of a freeway do count as part of the route, so for example interstate 710 begins at the Queen Mary Terminal (and two other places in Long Beach).  And a freeway like interstate 8, which begins, then drops down to one connecting ramp at I-5, before expanding back out to five lanes, is not considered to be discontinuous.

[Alps]

so each country has a different definition of where a freeway begins or ends?  I think in the US, the connecting ramps of a freeway do count as part of the route, so for example interstate 710 begins at the Queen Mary Terminal (and two other places in Long Beach).  And a freeway like interstate 8, which begins, then drops down to one connecting ramp at I-5, before expanding back out to five lanes, is not considered to be discontinuous.

I think it varies by state here.  Some states go by ramps (NJ), some go by centerlines (OH).  When a route begins as a series of ramps, when are the ramps considered part of the route?  Some states consider them separate routes (PA), some don't.

[Bickendan]

It is correct.  The A404 does begin at the A40 and runs north only.  What I actually meant is that traffic headed for Hauteville-Lompnes (the "white" destination) leaves at the A40/A404 interchange complex (which connects with the surface road system) and does not reach the mainline A404.  I am not sure where on the A40/A404 transition the A404 is officially considered to begin.  If this were Spain you could expect to pass an "autovía cancel" sign within the interchange, followed in short order by an "autovía begin" sign also within the interchange, if you were not actually transitioning to the surface road system.  But I don't think France does that.  I know that the UK doesn't because neither the "on" or "off" variant of the chopsticks sign is supposed to appear in any area that is continuously subject to motorway regulations.  In the UK, and I think also in France, you don't actually receive confirmation that you have transitioned successfully to the right road until you pass the first pull-through or route confirmation (distance) sign with the route number at top (part of the sign panel in the UK, tabs at the top in France).

so each country has a different definition of where a freeway begins or ends?  I think in the US, the connecting ramps of a freeway do count as part of the route, so for example interstate 710 begins at the Queen Mary Terminal (and two other places in Long Beach).  And a freeway like interstate 8, which begins, then drops down to one connecting ramp at I-5, before expanding back out to five lanes, is not considered to be discontinuous.

I did some research for I-710's southern terminus for the Clinched Highways site, and the Long Beach and Queen Mary segments aren't considered part of I-710; it officially begins at CA 47.

Of course, the Thomas Guide prefers the Long Beach alignment, and until I saw the legislative definition for the Terminal Island alignment, thought it was Queen Mary as well.

[Stephane Dumas]

I saw these old videos in French about the N7 (Nationale 7) who was, before the autoroutes, was the main road from Paris to the Italian border via Nice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0i46mtUdiCc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNtmeUM4qRo

[CtrlAltDel]

Just for context, Nationale 7, which was later bypassed with the A7 autoroute mentioned above, was the main vacation route from Paris to the south of France. As such, it is fairly well-known in the popular mindset, much as Route 66 is in the US, and songs and so on have been written about it, in particular Charles Trenet's "Nationale 7." (He also wrote the original French version of "Beyond the Sea.") Anyway, there's a bit of travel "lore" associated with the route, such as the marker at the 45th parallel, that "officially" separates the north from the south of France. As mentioned above, the traffic was legendary, to the point where the town of Lapalisse recreates it with old timey vehicles in a small festival every two years.

[Chris]

N7 has been bypassed by autoroutes since the early 1970s, so pretty much half a century ago.

Yet it was not uncommon for regular people to take N7 instead of the tolled autoroute, because people had to make a decision between paying tolls or staying a few more days for that same amount of money.

I remember my parents and their friends (now in their sixties) sharing stories about how it was common to take the old national roads in the 1980s because they couldn't afford to pay tolls all the way to southern France. I think this faded away in the 1990s, as incomes grew and it became an acceptable vacation expense.

Nowadays there isn't much shunpiking, except for folks who want to travel slower and see the country with an RV. They don't mind driving 3 or 4 days from north to south. But for the average traveler to southern France, time matters and the route nationale travel just takes up far too much time.

[Road Hog]

When I was in Germany and would drive to Calais for the ferry to England, I would shunpike and take this N-road that cut a hypotenuse roughly between Metz and Arras. It took 2 hours longer, but I got to see a lot more of real France (and enjoyed some petrol savings as well).

[Plutonic Panda]

Article about a French Autoroute Interchange project: https://www.worldhighways.com/wh12/news/sarens-completes-nantes-area-a11-bridge-lift