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Author Topic: Florida  (Read 1294160 times)

lamsalfl

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« Reply #50 on: March 09, 2009, 12:31:09 AM »

I would very much like to see the rest of Florida 414 (Maitland Boulevard) east of U.S. 441 transformed into an full-blown expressway, getting rid of the remaining at-grade intersections. The northern part of the Orlando area has needed an additional east-west expressway to move traffic in the Altamonte Springs area as well as areas such as Casselberry and Maitland. I've always envisioned Maitland Boulevard extending east from its current eastern terminus at U.S. 17/92 to reach Toll Florida 417 and possibly further east.

I think it could be done.  I've looked at the aerials quite a bit, and I think you can squeeze some ramps in there.
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flaroads

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« Reply #51 on: March 09, 2009, 01:09:41 AM »

With the right amount of tweaking I believe you can. There are already plans for the interchange with Interstate 4 to be reconfigured, so yes, it could be feasible to transform the rest of Florida 414 into an expressway.
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Alex

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« Reply #52 on: March 09, 2009, 11:46:58 AM »

The access is already controlled along Florida 414 between U.S. 441 and Interstate 4. There are sound walls in place along some of that stretch, and all private driveways and commercial access is from the side roads, not from the Maitland Boulevard mainline. However the right of way is pretty tight in spots.

CarlFox

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« Reply #53 on: March 10, 2009, 02:51:23 AM »

Does anyone have any links for SR 23 (Cecil Commerce Parkway / Brannon Field-Chaffee Road) in Duval County?  They have the segment of Chaffee Road Between SR 134 (103rd St) and SR 228 (Normandy Blvd) closed to work on the SR 23 segment from 103rd to I-10, and I'd like to track down a timeline as to when that will be finished.

Also, I noticed that the intersection of the new SR 23 with Normandy will be at-grade with traffic signals.  Thought that was supposed to be part of the "outer beltway" on the First Coast...
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flaroads

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« Reply #54 on: March 10, 2009, 03:04:49 AM »

Here is the official website for Florida 23: http://www.bfcxpress.com/. I hope this helps.

As far as the intersection with Florida 23 and Normandy, yes it will be an at-grade intersection with traffic signals until such time when traffic warrants it to be upgraded to a full-fledged freeway. It is still part of the "Outer Beltway", but some portions (such as this one) will be constructed as either Super-2's or just as a two-lane road with provisions for future upgrades. The entire project will take several years, if not a decade or two, to complete.
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njroadhorse

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« Reply #55 on: March 10, 2009, 08:39:18 AM »

Here is the official website for Florida 23: http://www.bfcxpress.com/. I hope this helps.

As far as the intersection with Florida 23 and Normandy, yes it will be an at-grade intersection with traffic signals until such time when traffic warrants it to be upgraded to a full-fledged freeway. It is still part of the "Outer Beltway", but some portions (such as this one) will be constructed as either Super-2's or just as a two-lane road with provisions for future upgrades. The entire project will take several years, if not a decade or two, to complete.
Will it connect all the way to 95 eventually?  That would help 295 out a lot if it did.


Also, I was in St. Johns County in April 2006, and noticed that there was a large swath of land cleared on both sides of CR 210.  Could anybody tell me what that was for?
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I-99... the Glen Quagmire of interstate routes??

flaroads

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« Reply #56 on: March 10, 2009, 12:28:58 PM »

Yes, the First Coast Outer Beltway is suppose to connect with Interstate 95 between Florida 16 and St. Johns County 210.

As far as St. Johns County 210, this is the end result of what you saw in April 2006:


Eastbound St. Johns County 210 (Nocatee Parkway) approaching Crosswater Parkway. Photo taken 05/03/08.


Crosswater Parkway northbound at St. Johns County 210. Photo taken 05/03/08.


Temporary end of Nocatee Parkway. St. Johns County 210 veers south from here to connect with its original alignment on its way to nearby U.S. 1. Photo taken 05/03/08.

St. Johns County 210 was realigned in 2007 to accommodate the Town of Nocatee, a huge planned town in southeast St. Johns County. The creation of the Nocatee Parkway (St. Johns County 210) was part of the planning of this town. The second extension will bring the Nocatee Parkway west to U.S. 1 in 2010, carrying the St. Johns County 210 designation with it.

Since a portion of this is freeway grade, I would love to see this somehow tie in with the Outer First Coast Beltway and then the entire roadway could be designated Interstate 210 (just replace the county pentagon shields with interstate shields), but current plans do not call for either.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2009, 12:30:35 PM by flaroadgeek »
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njroadhorse

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« Reply #57 on: March 10, 2009, 01:14:14 PM »

Cool, I gotta go back there and see this.
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CarlFox

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« Reply #58 on: March 10, 2009, 10:27:12 PM »

Here is the official website for Florida 23: http://www.bfcxpress.com/. I hope this helps.

Aha!  Just what I was looking for, thanks.  I couldn't remember if they had a separate site for the road.

FDOT was in the process of putting up some new BGS's for SR 23 at 103rd when I drove by there a week or so ago, which had the road named the "Cecil Commerce Expressway" (or some such), although that may be a case of the road being called one thing in Duval County and another in Clay.

Now, I need to find info on that "College Drive North Extension" on Segment 7.  I live just off the current College Drive (Clay CR 224), and the intersection with Blanding Blvd. has a Publix shopping center right across from it, so how they plan to accomplish that is a bit boggling... :)
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flaroads

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« Reply #59 on: March 10, 2009, 11:52:28 PM »

Here is the official website for Florida 23: http://www.bfcxpress.com/. I hope this helps.

Aha!  Just what I was looking for, thanks.  I couldn't remember if they had a separate site for the road.

FDOT was in the process of putting up some new BGS's for SR 23 at 103rd when I drove by there a week or so ago, which had the road named the "Cecil Commerce Expressway" (or some such), although that may be a case of the road being called one thing in Duval County and another in Clay.

Now, I need to find info on that "College Drive North Extension" on Segment 7.  I live just off the current College Drive (Clay CR 224), and the intersection with Blanding Blvd. has a Publix shopping center right across from it, so how they plan to accomplish that is a bit boggling... :)

Not a problem!  :D I'll see if I can find any info on the College Drive North Extension for you and let you know what I find.
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CarlFox

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« Reply #60 on: March 17, 2009, 01:28:26 AM »

From the Times-Union : http://www.jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-03-15/story/legislators_hope_to_get_outer_beltway_project_going

Interesting note : I saw that some new green signs were put up on SR 23 between Argyle Forest Blvd and 103rd St; most of what was on the signs was covered up, except for a white curved shape at the bottom.  If that's part of a road shield, the only curved-bottom shields Florida uses (IIRC) are for toll roads.  That'll go over well with Jacksonville drivers (especially the ones who voted the tolls away all those years ago)...
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flaroads

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« Reply #61 on: March 17, 2009, 02:10:11 AM »

In which direction were these signs? And did you happen to notice signs of any possible open road tolling equipment between Argyle and 103rd? I believe that they would not be tolling that existing portion (at least I hope they wouldn't). And yes, the toll shields in Florida does have rounded bottom.

Interesting article, though. I read a lot of the readers opinions on the subject and most are not for the Outer Beltway. If it indeed turns into a toll facility, then we can say goodbye to any chance of a new interstate in the Jacksonville area.
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CarlFox

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« Reply #62 on: March 17, 2009, 10:50:19 PM »

Quote
In which direction were these signs? And did you happen to notice signs of any possible open road tolling equipment between Argyle and 103rd? I believe that they would not be tolling that existing portion (at least I hope they wouldn't). And yes, the toll shields in Florida does have rounded bottom.

There was one going northbound just past Argyle, and two going southbound, one just after 103rd, and a second just past Argyle (begin/end?).  Next time I'm out that way, I'll have to get a snapshot of them.
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flaroads

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« Reply #63 on: March 18, 2009, 12:17:56 AM »

Sweet!! Yeah, I'd love to see some pictures of them. It almost makes me wonder if they are either mileage signs (which I doubt but you never know) or some sort of corridor signage such as North Carolina is imfamous for (I doubt this too but...).
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CarlFox

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« Reply #64 on: March 27, 2009, 11:24:25 PM »

Latest on the Outer Beltway from the local fishwrapper : http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-03-23/story/tolls_making_a_comeback_in_this_region

Whole lotta NIMBY going on...

Quote
Fleming Island resident Mike Heemer  said the road is a bad idea that will only benefit the landowners and businesses around the road.

Heemer concedes that constructing the road is supported by many in Clay County. But he said a lot of people arenít aware that it will be a toll road.

ďI call it the First Coast Outer Tollway,Ē he said.

Heemer is also dubious that people will want to travel on a toll road after itís built and says the portion of the  road from Green Cove Springs to St. Johns County wonít see a lot of vehicles.

Pete Geiger,  a resident of Penney Farms in Clay County, expressed concern that the Outer Beltway would end up discouraging the construction of other roads in the area. He worries that a contractor would insist on a no-compete clause that would lead to the state putting lights and stop signs on other roads so that cars would use the Outer Beltway.

Hmm...if it makes it easier to get from Orange Park, Middleburg, et. al. to St. Augustine (never mind I-95 in St. Johns County), I think it'll get more use than these guys think.  That, and I would think that would take pressure off of SR 16 and St Johns County 210, as well.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2009, 11:28:46 PM by CarlFox »
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flaroads

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« Reply #65 on: March 28, 2009, 03:11:34 PM »

I am not at all surprised that the outer beltway is now being considered as a toll facility. Maybe FDOT should consider using some of the stimulus package and use it toward this instead of just using it to resurface other roads, especially since some of the roads being considered do not even need to be resurfaced.

I agree that most of those people have no clue about who will use the road and who will not. And if I could talk to the resident of Penney Farms, I'd tell him that putting stop lights and and stop signs will not encourage more people to use the outer beltway. It hasn't done that in the Orlando area.
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Alex

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« Reply #66 on: March 28, 2009, 10:23:01 PM »

As far as I knew, the beltway was to be tolled all along. The only portion that would be free would be the Brannan-Chaffee Expressway portion (SR-23).

Reading that article, it kills me to learn of these no-compete clauses. Why do we have those in roads, especially with toll roads versus free alternatives. There's some heated debate with the ones in Austin, TX for instance, especially with the upgrading of portions of U.S. 190 into a toll road that will require non-toll paying drivers to use the congested frontage roads as an alternative. Is that what they mean by no-compete clause?

flaroads

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« Reply #67 on: March 28, 2009, 10:43:11 PM »

When I first learned of the Outer Beltway back in the late 1990's, it was not planned as a toll facility as now stated on their official website. And with the current corridor planned, it really will not serve as a bypass but more rather of a sprawl inducer, as it will open up acres and acres of northeast Florida farm land for residential and commercial use, especially along corridors such as U.S. 17, Florida 16 and Florida 21 (Blanding Boulevard), which does not need any more commercial or residential developments.
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Alex

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« Reply #68 on: March 29, 2009, 10:47:04 AM »

Within the past two years, U.S. 98 and U.S. 331 were relocated onto new facilities in northwest Florida. U.S. 98 was moved inland in Gulf County, and now bypasses a new beach community called Windmark Beach. U.S. 331 was relocated eastward onto a new facility north and east of Freeport. The old alignment in Gulf County is now a part of beachfront lots.  :verymad: Old U.S. 331 in Walton County is now signed as Florida 883.  :crazy:

Are there any other pending or planned U.S. highway relocations like this in Florida?

florida

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« Reply #69 on: April 04, 2009, 09:25:57 AM »

Did you get a chance to get pictures of FL 883. Glad I got to clinch US 331 before the realignment.
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flaroads

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« Reply #70 on: April 04, 2009, 11:53:14 AM »

Quote
Did you get a chance to get pictures of FL 883. Glad I got to clinch US 331 before the realignment.

He and I both have some pictures of FL 883. I am posting some of mine and I am sure he will post some later as I think he has better lighting...


First northbound reassurance shield for Florida 883 just north of its southern terminus with Florida 20. Photo taken 12/01/08.



First southbound reassurance shield for Florida 883 south of U.S. 331. Photo taken 12/01/08.


Approaching the intersection with Florida 20 in Freeport. The shield assembly in the background still displays U.S. 331 as turning east onto Florida 20. Photo taken 12/01/08.


Shield assembly for Florida 20 and now erroneous U.S. 331 east of Florida 883. Photo taken 12/01/08.

Unfortunately I did not get a chance to clinch U.S. 331 when it was on its former alignment through Freeport... :no:

My other question with this signing of Florida 883 is why use that number? That route belongs down in southwest Florida along with all the other 880 series routes. This route should have just been called Florida 83 instead.
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ComputerGuy

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« Reply #71 on: April 04, 2009, 12:16:18 PM »

Great pics...I see a sign that points to a place called "Bruce"...LOL that's my name.
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florida

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« Reply #72 on: April 05, 2009, 05:19:03 AM »

Thanks for sharing those. They replaced the old traffic light with those ugly Panhandle mast arms.   :banghead: The street straight ahead in the third picture used to/still does have a C-83A shield on it (it was most likely a spur of S/C-83A to the west). They used 883 probably for the same reason of using the 7xx (and 4xx) series in Pensacola, to differentiate from the overuse and limited remaining numbers of the 1xx and 2xx series. Plus, it could be signed that way to state it's a "spur" of 83. Panama City had the same thing series 7xx numbers during the 70s, until they renumbered them to 4-di CRs. I wonder if there are any historical photos of those around somewhere.

Is the new US 331 4- or 2-laned? Mapquest has FL 883 listed as Business US 331.

Now, to get pictures of SR 162 in Tallahassee.  ;-)
« Last Edit: April 05, 2009, 05:35:25 AM by florida »
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flaroads

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« Reply #73 on: April 05, 2009, 12:25:43 PM »

To answer your question about U.S. 331, it is two lanes but they acquired enough right of way to easily make it four lanes in the future.

And I am not surprised that Mapquest has it listed as Business U.S. 331. Maps Live shows the bypass and shows Florida 883 as Business U.S. 331 (in text) as well. Their aerial does show the bypass under construction (aerial must be from 2006 or 2007). Google Maps, on the other hand, does not even show the new bypass at all!! They still show U.S. 331 going along its original alignment and even the aerial used is older than Maps Live as it shows it pre-bypass. And Google Street View isn't much better, though it does show U.S. 331 just north of where the bypass comes in as newly paved. Their drivers didn't even take the new route when they did their street view recon! One image at Florida 20 still shows the bypass under construction (when looking north on U.S. 331) and when you toggle south along 331 in the next frame you can see cars using it! This is why I hate Google Maps and Google Street View, but that can be discussed in its proper thread...

As far as the C-83A shield, it is still there  :)

I actually took a little jaunt over to Panama City yesterday and found several historical shields still in place. I photographed them all and will probably post them at a later date. I did not, however, come across any historical 7xx series shields but that would have been sweet if I did. Of course they are probably removed but you never know. I will have to make another trip over that way soon.

If I can make it over to Tallahassee sometime soon maybe I will get some Florida 162 pictures to post...
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« Reply #74 on: April 05, 2009, 01:13:04 PM »

Business U.S. 331 is signed on green guide signs in text for the old route, but not in shields.

 


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