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Pennsylvania

Started by Alex, March 07, 2009, 07:01:05 PM

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Roadsguy

Has anyone seen a diagram of the finished reconstructed interchange between US 222 and PA 61 in Reading, as part of the 61 widening project? They're adding lights, making it four lanes to just past Crossroads Blvd, and seem to be building a free-flowing SB 222-NB 61 ramp, but I'd like to know what else they're doing, if it's not too minor. They don't seem to be doing any huge changes like with the next interchange down on 222 at 183.
Mileage-based exit numbering implies the existence of mileage-cringe exit numbering.


PHLBOS

Quote from: Gnutella on May 26, 2014, 03:22:45 PM
One thing PennDOT has been doing that I like is making Interstates the primary alignments through elaborate interchanges despite changing direction. They did it with the I-81/I-84 interchange in Scranton, and the I-99/U.S. 322 East interchange in State College, and they appear to have designed it into the new I-83/I-283 interchange in Harrisburg, with the northbound and southbound lanes staying next to each other even as they change direction through the interchange. This actually gives PennDOT a leg up on other states in the Northeast and Midwest that have lots of highways that exit themselves.
Similar was done when the I-78/US 22 split just west of Allentown was constructed. 

Back in the mid-90s, when a friend of mine was returning to Norristown from Macungie, she was heading east along I-78/US 22 (she wanted to pick up I-476/NE Extension and head south which can only be done by using US 22) but completely ignored the overhead BGS' and stayed straight thinking she would be still on US 22 (she was actually along I-78).  She didn't realize that she missed the turn for US 22 East until she was approaching the NJ State line (some 26-27 miles later).

Side bar: Your I-83/283 interchange link appears to be broken.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

mtantillo

Quote from: PHLBOS on July 25, 2014, 08:18:57 AM
Quote from: Gnutella on May 26, 2014, 03:22:45 PM
One thing PennDOT has been doing that I like is making Interstates the primary alignments through elaborate interchanges despite changing direction. They did it with the I-81/I-84 interchange in Scranton, and the I-99/U.S. 322 East interchange in State College, and they appear to have designed it into the new I-83/I-283 interchange in Harrisburg, with the northbound and southbound lanes staying next to each other even as they change direction through the interchange. This actually gives PennDOT a leg up on other states in the Northeast and Midwest that have lots of highways that exit themselves.
Similar was done when the I-78/US 22 split just west of Allentown was constructed. 

Back in the mid-90s, when a friend of mine was returning to Norristown from Macungie, she was heading east along I-78/US 22 (she wanted to pick up I-476/NE Extension and head south which can only be done by using US 22) but completely ignored the overhead BGS' and stayed straight thinking she would be still on US 22 (she was actually along I-78).  She didn't realize that she missed the turn for US 22 East until she was approaching the NJ State line (some 26-27 miles later).

Side bar: Your I-83/283 interchange link appears to be broken.

Although....the I-81/I-78 split is kind of weird. In the southbound direction, I-78's lanes are the ones that end (since I-78 ends at I-81). However in the northbound direction at the split, the new lanes forming on the left are for those staying on I-81, while the through lanes become I-78 east. This is a perfect example of an interstate exiting itself for no reason other than striping!

Duke87

Quote from: mtantillo on July 28, 2014, 04:49:24 PM
Although....the I-81/I-78 split is kind of weird. In the southbound direction, I-78's lanes are the ones that end (since I-78 ends at I-81). However in the northbound direction at the split, the new lanes forming on the left are for those staying on I-81, while the through lanes become I-78 east. This is a perfect example of an interstate exiting itself for no reason other than striping!

The northbound split striping makes sense because 81 north to 78 east is a much more popular movement than staying on 81 north.

The southbound merge striping logically should mirror it but for whatever reason it does not.
If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

mtantillo

Quote from: Duke87 on July 28, 2014, 08:53:24 PM
Quote from: mtantillo on July 28, 2014, 04:49:24 PM
Although....the I-81/I-78 split is kind of weird. In the southbound direction, I-78's lanes are the ones that end (since I-78 ends at I-81). However in the northbound direction at the split, the new lanes forming on the left are for those staying on I-81, while the through lanes become I-78 east. This is a perfect example of an interstate exiting itself for no reason other than striping!

The northbound split striping makes sense because 81 north to 78 east is a much more popular movement than staying on 81 north.

The southbound merge striping logically should mirror it but for whatever reason it does not.

I actually might disagree with that. I'd say the traffic splits fairly close to 50/50. I would personally be in favor of compromise...one lane forms on the left, one on the right.

In the southbound direction, what is interesting is that it is the left lanes that are ending, but the physical pavement (based on following the expansion joints in the concrete) has the lanes ending on the right. So basically you have left lane ending, then 3 lanes shift to the left, then left lane ending, then 2 lanes shifting to the right.

Ultimately, I hope they widen this stretch to 3 lanes (and actually all of I-78 in PA too), which would make this all somewhat of a moot point, since at least one of those lanes would be for through traffic on I-81.

Roadsguy

Quote from: mtantillo on July 29, 2014, 11:58:11 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on July 28, 2014, 08:53:24 PM
Quote from: mtantillo on July 28, 2014, 04:49:24 PM
Although....the I-81/I-78 split is kind of weird. In the southbound direction, I-78's lanes are the ones that end (since I-78 ends at I-81). However in the northbound direction at the split, the new lanes forming on the left are for those staying on I-81, while the through lanes become I-78 east. This is a perfect example of an interstate exiting itself for no reason other than striping!

The northbound split striping makes sense because 81 north to 78 east is a much more popular movement than staying on 81 north.

The southbound merge striping logically should mirror it but for whatever reason it does not.

I actually might disagree with that. I'd say the traffic splits fairly close to 50/50. I would personally be in favor of compromise...one lane forms on the left, one on the right.

In the southbound direction, what is interesting is that it is the left lanes that are ending, but the physical pavement (based on following the expansion joints in the concrete) has the lanes ending on the right. So basically you have left lane ending, then 3 lanes shift to the left, then left lane ending, then 2 lanes shifting to the right.

Ultimately, I hope they widen this stretch to 3 lanes (and actually all of I-78 in PA too), which would make this all somewhat of a moot point, since at least one of those lanes would be for through traffic on I-81.

It looks like it once did mirror the NB configuration, but they changed it at some point to treat 81 as the through route.

I agree that they should change it for the merge and the split so that a lane forms/ends on each side so that ultimately the left lane goes to 81 and the right lane goes to 78.
Mileage-based exit numbering implies the existence of mileage-cringe exit numbering.

froggie

QuoteI actually might disagree with that. I'd say the traffic splits fairly close to 50/50.

Back-calculating from 2012 traffic volumes shows 28K/day continuing on I-78 and 22K/day continuing on I-81 (two-way volumes).  So a 56/44 split...not too far from 50/50, but slightly favoring I-78.

Crazy Volvo Guy

Quote from: briantroutman on April 09, 2014, 03:54:43 PM
Using roundabouts for a corridor with heavy truck traffic like 222 seems ludicrous.

It is.  Even better when they are small and multi-lane.  People don't realize that my trailer cannot magically stay in my lane around a curve radius that tight.  Some of these so-called "engineers" need to be shot.  Or better yet, subject to driving ALL TYPES of vehicles through their creations.
I hate Clearview, because it looks like a cheap Chinese ripoff.

I'm for the Red Sox and whoever's playing against the Yankees.

Crazy Volvo Guy

Quote from: ARMOURERERIC on November 23, 2013, 10:17:51 PMFreewayization of US 322 from Milroy to Boalsburg

About goddamn time.  My company LOVES to route me this way when coming from SEPA and going to Ohio and the Midwest, and there is no good alternative that doesn't mean either a metric shit-ton of extra miles, or unauthorized tolls.  322 between  Milroy and Boalsburg is a royal PITA.
I hate Clearview, because it looks like a cheap Chinese ripoff.

I'm for the Red Sox and whoever's playing against the Yankees.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: ixnay on July 12, 2014, 09:14:53 PM
Why is I-70's speed limit only 55 mph between the MD line and Breezewood?

Also, there are a lot of wrecks on I-70 westbound (really northbound at that point) approaching the signalized intersection at U.S. 30 in Breezewood.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

vdeane

Quote from: Crazy Volvo Guy on August 02, 2014, 02:34:51 PM
Quote from: briantroutman on April 09, 2014, 03:54:43 PM
Using roundabouts for a corridor with heavy truck traffic like 222 seems ludicrous.

It is.  Even better when they are small and multi-lane.  People don't realize that my trailer cannot magically stay in my lane around a curve radius that tight.  Some of these so-called "engineers" need to be shot.  Or better yet, subject to driving ALL TYPES of vehicles through their creations.
You're not supposed to.  What do you think that tapered island for?  Trucks/vehicles with trailers are SUPPOSED to drive on that!  Your problem is not that the roundabouts are there.  Your problem is that you don't know how to use roundabouts.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

froggie

Quote from: vdeane
Quote from: Crazy Volvo GuyIt is.  Even better when they are small and multi-lane.  People don't realize that my trailer cannot magically stay in my lane around a curve radius that tight.  Some of these so-called "engineers" need to be shot.  Or better yet, subject to driving ALL TYPES of vehicles through their creations.
You're not supposed to.  What do you think that tapered island for?  Trucks/vehicles with trailers are SUPPOSED to drive on that!

Hence why MnDOT calls it a Truck Apron...

Duke87

Quote from: mtantillo on July 29, 2014, 11:58:11 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on July 28, 2014, 08:53:24 PM
The northbound split striping makes sense because 81 north to 78 east is a much more popular movement than staying on 81 north.

The southbound merge striping logically should mirror it but for whatever reason it does not.

I actually might disagree with that. I'd say the traffic splits fairly close to 50/50. I would personally be in favor of compromise...one lane forms on the left, one on the right.

Per PennDOT's traffic counts...
I-81 south of the split: 50,000
I-78 east of the split: 30,000
I-81 north of the split: 24,000

So logically, we've got 2,000 making the acute angle movement, 28,000 going through to 78, and 22,000 staying on I-81.

This is a 56/44 split in favor of 78... which isn't as disparate as I had thought. Hmm.
If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

froggie


rickmastfan67

Split the I-70 reconstruction talk into the thread on the same topic in the Ohio Valley section.

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=5062.0

mtantillo

And what if it is a multi-lane roundabout and the truck needs to be in the outside lane to get to their destination?

vdeane

I believe they ignore the lane lines... might be why the signs say "yield to all lanes in circle".
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

froggie

QuoteAnd what if it is a multi-lane roundabout and the truck needs to be in the outside lane to get to their destination?

http://www.dot.state.mn.us/roundabouts/oversize.html

D-Dey65

Maybe somebody from Bucks County can answer this, but I saw that the US 13-Old Bristol Pike interchange was screwed up by turning the never-built southbound bridge beneath northbound US 13 into a hiking trail, or something.


J N Winkler

Thought I'd mention that I-78 is getting new signs:  the construction plans are under ECMS 91957 and include almost 80 pattern-accurate sign panel detail and sign elevation sheets.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

qguy

Quote from: D-Dey65 on October 09, 2014, 10:20:54 PM
Maybe somebody from Bucks County can answer this, but I saw that the US 13-Old Bristol Pike interchange was screwed up by turning the never-built southbound bridge beneath northbound US 13 into a hiking trail, or something.

I'm not from Bucks County, but until recently I lived in northeast Philadelphia and drove on that route semi-frequently. A blocked-off and disused ramp was removed and two tunnels were constructed under new embankment fill (one each under both the northbound and southbound carriageways) of the US 13 freeway just yards from the southern end of the freeway portion of US 13.

The tunnels allow for a gap to be filled in the Delaware Canal towpath trail, which stretches some 60 miles from Bristol at its southern end to Easton at its northern end.

The ramp hadn't been used in the 25-some years I lived in the area because of a reconfiguration to eliminate a traffic conflict caused by the ramp crossing the main line of the freeway. The ramp was dangerous and was never going to be re-used. And the trail is extremely popular. So it's just aswell.

Seeing that the canal has become extremely popular as a kayaking route in recent years, what truly puzzles me is why PennDOT went to the trouble and expense to reconstruct the carriageways for construction of tunnels for the trail but provided only conduit pipes for flow of the canal water and not tunnels for full travel on the canal. I know that the canal prism itself is discontinuous in a few other places in the immediate area, but many have been pushing to have those remedied piece by piece.

D-Dey65

Quote from: qguy on October 11, 2014, 09:29:08 PM
I'm not from Bucks County, but until recently I lived in northeast Philadelphia and drove on that route semi-frequently. A blocked-off and disused ramp was removed and two tunnels were constructed under new embankment fill (one each under both the northbound and southbound carriageways) of the US 13 freeway just yards from the southern end of the freeway portion of US 13.

The tunnels allow for a gap to be filled in the Delaware Canal towpath trail, which stretches some 60 miles from Bristol at its southern end to Easton at its northern end.

The ramp hadn't been used in the 25-some years I lived in the area because of a reconfiguration to eliminate a traffic conflict caused by the ramp crossing the main line of the freeway. The ramp was dangerous and was never going to be re-used. And the trail is extremely popular. So it's just aswell.
Okay, that makes sense. But it just seems like a waste to have that big wide median for no reason, and leave the ramps at Old Bristol Pike going only one way.

Gnutella


froggie

I like the 2A concept at 191/611 (Exit 307), and the 2D concept west of there.  Too bad the project website doesn't have any real way to communicate that, though...didn't find a single email address on it, even though they mention email as a way to contact.

Gnutella

Quote from: froggie on December 17, 2014, 08:09:48 AM
I like the 2A concept at 191/611 (Exit 307), and the 2D concept west of there.  Too bad the project website doesn't have any real way to communicate that, though...didn't find a single email address on it, even though they mention email as a way to contact.

This project, along with the ongoing reconstruction of I-70 near Pittsburgh, and the upgrades of I-83 on the drawing board in Harrisburg and York, ought to put a nice dent in Pennsylvania's substandard Interstate mileage. Here's how I see it:

I-70 from I-79 to the Pennsylvania Turnpike (37 miles)
I-76 from the Pennsylvania Turnpike to the Walt Whitman Bridge (24 miles)
I-78 from I-81 to the Pennsylvania Turnpike Northeast Extension (51 miles)
I-80 from I-380 to the New Jersey state line (18 miles)
I-83 except a brief segment in York (47 miles)
I-376 from Pittsburgh International Airport to the Pennsylvania Turnpike (29 miles)

That makes 206 miles of substandard Interstate, with about 45 miles being upgraded in the near future.

As for the I-80 project, here's the PennDOT District 5 home page. I'm sure you can find an e-mail link there.



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