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Driving Forward OK

Started by Scott5114, October 29, 2015, 09:49:28 PM

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kphoger

Quote from: Bobby5280 on October 12, 2018, 01:56:35 PM
In it's current form between Wichita Falls and OKC it is a spur route. It's long enough to justify a 2-digit designation.

I don't think there's any need to use up another number, when 44 works just fine.

Quote from: Bobby5280 on October 12, 2018, 01:56:35 PM
I think the Interstate ought to be extended down to I-20 in Abilene, if not farther down to San Angelo. It wouldn't be hard to do. US-277 between Wichita Falls and Abilene has been four-laned and given a few near-Interstate quality upgrades in towns along the way.

Did they finally finish the last part between Holliday and Seymour?  I haven't driven it since March.

Anson would be the real challenge, although I think a new-alignment bypass along the eastern edge of town would be feasible.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.


hotdogPi

Quote from: Bobby5280 on October 12, 2018, 01:56:35 PM
In it's its current form between Wichita Falls and OKC it is a spur route. It's long enough to justify a 2-digit designation. I think the Interstate ought to be extended down to I-20 in Abilene, if not farther down to San Angelo. It wouldn't be hard to do. US-277 between Wichita Falls and Abilene has been four-laned and given a few near-Interstate quality upgrades in towns along the way.

There are higher priorities (actual or perceived): Dallas to Amarillo, Austin to Houston, I-14, and I-69.

Also keep in mind that most US routes in the middle of nowhere in Texas are 75 MPH already. I'm not sure about US 277, but I would guess that it is.
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

kphoger

Quote from: 1 on October 12, 2018, 02:07:11 PM
Also keep in mind that most US routes in the middle of nowhere in Texas are 75 MPH already. I'm not sure about US 277, but I would guess that it is.

US-277 is 75 mph for most of its route all the way to Del Rio.  The sections that aren't 75 are 65 or 70, and those are basically the curvy bits south of Abilene and areas near towns.  It's almost exclusively 75 mph from Wichita Falls to Abilene.  The two- and three-lane sections that were still left north of Seymour were 65 mph, but it sounds like those have now been twinned since I was there last.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Bobby5280

Quote from: kphogerDid they finally finish the last part between Holliday and Seymour?  I haven't driven it since March.

That stretch should have all been completed for some time. It has been a couple or so years since I last drove that route. When I did the only part between Holliday and Seymour that wasn't four-laned was the stretch thru Dundee. The bypass was under construction at that time. I would be shocked if that wasn't finished.

TX DOT has plans to extend Kell Freeway on the SW corner of Wichita Falls to connect to the bypass around Holliday. I don't know when they're going to start building it. But that's by far the biggest hurdle in the way of extending I-44 toward Abilene.

Quote from: XThere are higher priorities (actual or perceived): Dallas to Amarillo, Austin to Houston, I-14, and I-69.

I would agree US-287 between Fort Worth and Amarillo needs an Interstate upgrade desperately. Truck traffic on that route is ridiculous. But then so is truck traffic on US-69 in Oklahoma; maybe even worse, but there doesn't seem to be any hurry to upgrade that one into an extension of I-45. Regardless, I've driven on US-287 enough to really want an Interstate-class route.

The overall grand scheme of I-14 is a giant pile of wasteful pork. The only parts of it that are justifiable at all is the stretch from Killeen to College Station and over to Huntsville. But the jagged, saw-tooth path they have proposed inspires me to root against it ever getting completed. I can't emphasize enough how much I hate crooked, jagged, mileage wasting Interstate routes. I hate a bunch of I-69 for the same reason. Interstates are supposed to be direct, time-saving routes. They shouldn't bend all over the place like some po-dunk 2-lane section line gravel road. But that's what we have going now with both I-14 and I-69. They stink.

An I-44 extension to Abilene and San Angelo is justifiable. I-35 is an over-loaded NAFTA corridor. I-44 is another important SW to NE national route. Connecting it to the Mexico border via an I-27 extension would create a good relief route for commercial traffic on I-35. Plus it would provide a good option for traffic coming from places like Southern AZ or CA and headed to points in the Northeast. They would be able to bypass DFW while staying on Interstate quality road the whole way.

kphoger

Quote from: Bobby5280 on October 13, 2018, 01:27:10 AM
An I-44 extension to Abilene and San Angelo is justifiable. I-35 is an over-loaded NAFTA corridor. I-44 is another important SW to NE national route. Connecting it to the Mexico border via an I-27 extension would create a good relief route for commercial traffic on I-35.

You say that as if "the Mexican border" is either a destination or origin of commercial traffic.  In reality, though, "Monterrey" or "Laredo" or "Fort Worth" is the destination or origin.  Any alternative to I-35 that utilizes I-44 would only be useful for NAFTA traffic if it connects to Laredo at the south end and Oklahoma City at the north end (which means it would not be serving NAFTA traffic with an origin or destination between those two points), and I'm struggling to imagine how that would use any sort of I-27 extension.  Do you imagine an I-27 extension reaching all the way to Laredo?

I-277 south of San Angelo has almost zero long-haul truck traffic, in my experience–especially south of Sonora.  Del Rio is just not a huge cross-border destination.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Bobby5280

Quote from: kphogerDo you imagine an I-27 extension reaching all the way to Laredo?

It's one possibility, one that is part of the overall Ports to Plains Corridor. The Ports to Plains Corridor does run from San Angelo down to Del Rio and then farther South along the Rio Grande to Piedras Negras, Carrizo Springs and Laredo. Then the corridor runs down to the Rio Grande Valley cities at the coast. Best case long-term scenario, but still also a long shot, both I-27 and I-2 could meet in Laredo, but with I-27 hitting two other border cities before reaching Laredo.

Obviously Del Rio is not as busy a border crossing as Laredo. Monterrey has a major highway linking to Nuevo Laredo in a very direct path. I-35 is just across the border. US-277 North out of Del Rio is not a major highway; it's pretty much all 2-lane between Del Rio and San Angelo. Traffic levels could increase if the Ports to Plains Corridor was fleshed out completely.

Another possibility for extending I-27 is having it go from San Angelo to end at I-10 in Junction. That would give places like Lubbock & Amarillo a direct Interstate-quality route to San Antonio and points farther South and East.

If either of those versions of I-27 can be built thru San Angelo it would give I-44 a good reason to be extended to San Angelo as well. Meanwhile, I think TX DOT can slowly but steadily improve US-277 between Wichita Falls and Abilene. That would at least eliminate the current dead end of I-44 in Wichita Falls.

kphoger

Quote from: Bobby5280 on October 14, 2018, 11:52:28 PM
Obviously Del Rio is not as busy a border crossing as Laredo. Monterrey has a major highway linking to Nuevo Laredo in a very direct path. I-35 is just across the border. US-277 North out of Del Rio is not a major highway; it's pretty much all 2-lane between Del Rio and San Angelo.

But I think that reasoning is backwards.  The San Antonio—Monterrey corridor is a big four-lane highway because that's where the traffic is.  To say that's where the traffic is because it's a major highway doesn't make sense.  Monterrey has a huge industrial sector, making stuff that gets shipped to America; the two Laredos have trucking firms and drayage yards by the dozen.  In contrast, the industrial zone in Coahuila south of Del Rio (Allende, Sabinas, Monclova, Castaños) is more focused on producing raw materials like steel and coal, rather than consumer goods for export to the States.  That's why I was saying the only way an I-35 bypass through Texas would be valuable to cross-border traffic would be if it connected to Laredo and some other major shipping node in the USA.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Bobby5280

To repeat it a little more clearly: the Ports to Plains Corridor goes through both Del Rio and Laredo on the way down to the coast. It doesn't dead end in Del Rio. The grand plan would appear to extend both I-27 and I-2 to Laredo. That's not my fantasy. I would just as soon extend I-27 directly (in a direct diagonal path) to Junction, TX and end it at I-10 there. It would be a less costly extension; something that could ultimately create a San Antonio to Denver corridor.

There is a hell of a lot of traffic and development along I-35. Laredo is also a very busy border crossing. Not every person driving on I-35 in Texas is going to a destination along I-35 in Texas. Right now most traffic headed from South Texas to places up in the Texas Panhandle, Oklahoma or points farther North would at least take I-35 up to San Antonio before leaving I-35 for other alternatives. There's no good high capacity/high speed alternative highway. Some people who frequently must use I-35 might like it if some of that long distance traffic took a different route. Extensions of I-27 and I-44 could get a bunch of that traffic around the San Antonio, Austin and DFW metro areas.

In the eastern US there's a few Interstates that work as bypass routes for more major routes. I-81 in conjunction with other routes (like I-78 and I-84) helps filter a lot of traffic from busy parts of I-95. I-35 needs something like that in Texas. Aside from the Ports to Plains Corridor it's also possible US-281 going North out of San Antonio could at least be four-laned all the way to Wichita Falls with freeway upgrades in key places.

Plutonic Panda

According to the turnpike authorities twitter page, the first 8 miles of the Turner Turnpike widening and reconstruction is officially opened.

bugo

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on November 17, 2018, 06:10:30 AM
According to the turnpike authorities twitter page, the first 8 miles of the Turner Turnpike widening and reconstruction is officially opened.
I'll try to check it out in the next few days. I'll be sure to get pictures.

Nexus 5X


Plutonic Panda

That would be very appreciated, Bugo! From the picture I saw from OTA, the quality of the final product looks amazing! Didn't really get to see any signage or interchanges thought, only the mainline. The mainline looks to be on par with the recently reconstructed Illinois Tollway sections in west Chicago.

bugo

I drove to OKC in July to see the Smashing Pumpkins. The road looked pretty impressive at that time. It is an unusual rural interstate in that it is one wide carriageway with a Jersey-style barrier for a median.

Nexus 5X


Bobby5280

The design similar to other tolled stretches of I-44 in Oklahoma. It's just wider (3 lanes each way and better inner and outer shoulders). Other parts of I-44 look like a single roadway with a Jersey barrier (or cable barrier) down the middle.

On the other hand, the newly completed stretch of I-44 near Tulsa has a little more of an urban freeway look. It could just be the width of the roadway doing that. The lighting adds another city-style touch.

Plutonic Panda

Quote from: Bobby5280 on November 22, 2018, 01:12:08 PM
The design similar to other tolled stretches of I-44 in Oklahoma. It's just wider (3 lanes each way and better inner and outer shoulders). Other parts of I-44 look like a single roadway with a Jersey barrier (or cable barrier) down the middle.

On the other hand, the newly completed stretch of I-44 near Tulsa has a little more of an urban freeway look. It could just be the width of the roadway doing that. The lighting adds another city-style touch.
That stretch of I-44 in Tulsa you're referring to is one of the most impressive stretches of urban freeway in Oklahoma, IMO. Though Hefner Parkway might be my favorite freeway in Oklahoma.

Bobby5280

Hefner Parkway looks pretty decent, but I think it's mostly because of the green scenery and lake nearby. The bridges over the highway are kind of unique looking. And they have no support pylons in the median, giving them a cleaner and less cluttered appearance.

I like the new I-40 through downtown OKC, but I do wish the scenery next to the new road was better. As downtown OKC continues to develop I'm sure the corridor's appearance will improve. I also like the re-built stretch of I-35 in Norman from OK-9 up to the Main Street exit. I wish some of I-44 in Lawton could get re-worked at least a little bit like that. The Gore Blvd exit really needs to be re-done as a SPUI. The double traffic lights on Gore Blvd are causing all kinds of backups on the main lanes of Gore Blvd and one of the I-44 off ramps. During rush hour I routinely see WB I-44 traffic exiting for Gore Blvd backing up along the full length of the off-ramp and onto the right lane of the highway. It takes way too long to get through that intersection.

rte66man

Quote from: Bobby5280 on November 22, 2018, 07:50:41 PM
Hefner Parkway looks pretty decent, but I think it's mostly because of the green scenery and lake nearby. The bridges over the highway are kind of unique looking. And they have no support pylons in the median, giving them a cleaner and less cluttered appearance.

I like the new I-40 through downtown OKC, but I do wish the scenery next to the new road was better. As downtown OKC continues to develop I'm sure the corridor's appearance will improve. I also like the re-built stretch of I-35 in Norman from OK-9 up to the Main Street exit. I wish some of I-44 in Lawton could get re-worked at least a little bit like that. The Gore Blvd exit really needs to be re-done as a SPUI. The double traffic lights on Gore Blvd are causing all kinds of backups on the main lanes of Gore Blvd and one of the I-44 off ramps. During rush hour I routinely see WB I-44 traffic exiting for Gore Blvd backing up along the full length of the off-ramp and onto the right lane of the highway. It takes way too long to get through that intersection.

C'mon Bobby, you know ODOT doesn't like to spend money in Lawton...   :poke:
When you come to a fork in the road... TAKE IT.

                                                               -Yogi Berra

okc1

The Eastern Oklahoma County Turnpike has been officially designated the Kickapoo Turnpike https://www.drivingforwardok.com/northeast-ok-county-loop
Steve Reynolds
Midwest City OK
Native of Southern Erie Co, NY

rte66man

Quote from: okc1 on September 25, 2019, 08:49:07 AM
The Eastern Oklahoma County Turnpike has been officially designated the Kickapoo Turnpike https://www.drivingforwardok.com/northeast-ok-county-loop

Fits with the trend. Since 1970, we have:
- Chickasaw
- Cherokee
- Creek
- Cimarron
- Kilpatrick

and now Kickapoo

4 of 6 named after tribes.  Still not sure what HE Bailey had on the Commission when he got a pike named after him.  Being Chief Traffic Engineer for decades should not have warranted such an honor IMO
When you come to a fork in the road... TAKE IT.

                                                               -Yogi Berra

The Ghostbuster

If they ever build another toll road in Oklahoma after the Eastern Oklahoma County/Kickapoo Turnpike is completed, I wonder what name they would give it? Any suggestions?

J N Winkler

Quote from: rte66man on September 26, 2019, 03:54:01 PMStill not sure what HE Bailey had on the Commission when he got a pike named after him.  Being Chief Traffic Engineer for decades should not have warranted such an honor IMO

He was apparently the founding director of the OTA as well as head (1947-1951) of the Oklahoma Highway Commission.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

Scott5114

"Muskogee" is what the Creeks call themselves, so technically the Creeks got two turnpikes. Cimarron, meanwhile, derives from the Cimarron River, which probably comes from the Spanish cimarrón, wild, untamed.

The Choctaws and Seminoles are the other two of the Five Civilized Tribes that do not have a turnpike named after themselves. The Indian Nation Turnpike would have been the perfect opportunity to name one after the Choctaws,  but that didn't happen, for whatever reason.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

Bobby5280

Quote from: The GhostbusterIf they ever build another toll road in Oklahoma after the Eastern Oklahoma County/Kickapoo Turnpike is completed, I wonder what name they would give it? Any suggestions?

The "Slapahoe Turnpike" or "Kickabich Turnpike?"

I've wondered from time to time why H.E. Bailey's name was applied to what are effectively two separate turnpikes (well, 3 now considering the "extension" that failed to make it from I-44 to I-35).

I don't have a problem with the guy getting his name applied to at least one of the sections. But maybe the segment between Lawton and Wichita Falls could have been named something else. We do have a bunch of tribes in this part of the state. The Comanche tribe is the big one, followed by the Kiowa tribe, Apache tribe and others. Lawton is home to Fort Sill and Wichita Falls is home to Sheppard AFB. Maybe the toll road between Lawton and Wichita Falls could have been given a military themed name.

I just had a disturbing idea: what if the OTA started selling turnpike naming rights to corporations, like the naming practices of sports stadiums? That would really suck.

bugo

#147
The Bailey Turnpike isn't the only one with multiple segments. The Muskogee Turnpike and the Creek Turnpike have free segments, and the Cimarron Turnpike has a spur that isn't a part of US 412.

SoonerCowboy

Quote from: okc1 on September 25, 2019, 08:49:07 AM
The Eastern Oklahoma County Turnpike has been officially designated the Kickapoo Turnpike https://www.drivingforwardok.com/northeast-ok-county-loop


They could have called it the "CPK" turnpike. (not to be confused with California Pizza Kitchen), for the Kickapoo and Citizen Potawatomi nations,  since the northern end is in the Kickapoo Nation, the southern end is within the Citizen Potawatomi Nation.

Quote from: Scott5114 on September 26, 2019, 07:59:38 PM
"Muskogee" is what the Creeks call themselves, so technically the Creeks got two turnpikes. Cimarron, meanwhile, derives from the Cimarron River, which probably comes from the Spanish cimarrón, wild, untamed.

The Choctaws and Seminoles are the other two of the Five Civilized Tribes that do not have a turnpike named after themselves. The Indian Nation Turnpike would have been the perfect opportunity to name one after the Choctaws,  but that didn't happen, for whatever reason.

I agree, the Indian Nation, should be given the Choctaw name, since only a small part of the northern section, is within the Creek Nation.

bugo

Quote from: Scott5114 on September 26, 2019, 07:59:38 PM
"Muskogee" is what the Creeks call themselves, so technically the Creeks got two turnpikes. Cimarron, meanwhile, derives from the Cimarron River, which probably comes from the Spanish cimarrón, wild, untamed.

Muscogee*



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