Washington Capitals and Wizards to move to Virginia?

[Ted$8roadFan]

As road geeks and sports fans, how do we feel about the potential for the Wizards and Capitals to move from Downtown DC to Alexandria, VA?

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/wizards-capitals-owner-announces-2-billion-plan-to-move-teams-to-virginia/3493235/

[Hunty2022]

I'm not a fan of either team, but I'm glad Virginia will have major league sports teams.

[SP Cook]

Could not care less about the Wizards or Capitals.  Everything inside the beltway is just the swamp, Maryland is the same as Virginia is the same as DC. 

But this is the next trend in stadiums and arenas.  Started by the Braves who went 15 miles from downtown and built this "Battery" which is an "entertainment district" of bars, shops, theatres, etc.  Which the team owns.  The old paradigm was taxpayers build a stadium and then stuff around it grows organically and it trickles down across the community.  New paradigm is taxpayers build the stadium and everything around it, and the teams own everything. 

No thanks.

[NWI_Irish96]

Going to be tough on the bars and restaurants in the Chinatown area.

[tmoore952]

Could not care less about the Wizards or Capitals.  Everything inside the beltway is just the swamp, Maryland is the same as Virginia is the same as DC. 

But this is the next trend in stadiums and arenas.  Started by the Braves who went 15 miles from downtown and built this "Battery" which is an "entertainment district" of bars, shops, theatres, etc.  Which the team owns.  The old paradigm was taxpayers build a stadium and then stuff around it grows organically and it trickles down across the community.  New paradigm is taxpayers build the stadium and everything around it, and the teams own everything. 

No thanks.

I live in the MD suburbs. I used to go to a couple hockey games a year before I had children. Nowadays not very much. I used to take public transportation (Metro Red Line) to get there. I have never driven. Driving on DC streets is best avoided -- speed cameras, red light cameras, and very poor signage.

To get to the proposed new site by public transportation when starting from Chinatown (where the present arena is), one would have to switch to the Metro Yellow line and go south about five(?) stops to the Potomac Yards station. Apparently Metro was not in the loop as this move announcement caught them by surprise. The local news here yesterday said that Potomac Yard station will need some major upgrades to accommodate the crowds that would be expected if an arena idoes get built here.

Now about your "everything inside the beltway is the swamp" comments:

Obviously you don't live here (I live in the MD suburbs). I find this to be the case with many people who don't live in the area. They don't seem to understand that this is an entire city with its own scene and vibrancy (and sports teams), and its own problems that are shared with many other large cities. If you turn on the local news here, it is NOT 30 minutes of Federal news.

I hope what you mean when you say that -- is Federal officials in the Capitol-White House area. How you make the jump to include the entire city plus its suburbs is beyond me. As a suburbian myself, what happens down there in the Federal area could just as well be 2000 miles away, given the access (meaning none) any non-privileged person has.

[epzik8]

I'd have to come from all the way north of Baltimore, so I'm not keen on it.

[Flint1979]

I like downtown sporting venues.

[Rothman]

Could not care less about the Wizards or Capitals.  Everything inside the beltway is just the swamp, Maryland is the same as Virginia is the same as DC. 

But this is the next trend in stadiums and arenas.  Started by the Braves who went 15 miles from downtown and built this "Battery" which is an "entertainment district" of bars, shops, theatres, etc.  Which the team owns.  The old paradigm was taxpayers build a stadium and then stuff around it grows organically and it trickles down across the community.  New paradigm is taxpayers build the stadium and everything around it, and the teams own everything. 

No thanks.

I live in the MD suburbs. I used to go to a couple hockey games a year before I had children. Nowadays not very much. I used to take public transportation (Metro Red Line) to get there. I have never driven. Driving on DC streets is best avoided -- speed cameras, red light cameras, and very poor signage.

To get to the proposed new site by public transportation when starting from Chinatown (where the present arena is), one would have to switch to the Metro Yellow line and go south about five(?) stops to the Potomac Yards station. Apparently Metro was not in the loop as this move announcement caught them by surprise. The local news here yesterday said that Potomac Yard station will need some major upgrades to accommodate the crowds that would be expected if an arena idoes get built here.

Now about your "everything inside the beltway is the swamp" comments:

Obviously you don't live here (I live in the MD suburbs). I find this to be the case with many people who don't live in the area. They don't seem to understand that this is an entire city with its own scene and vibrancy (and sports teams), and its own problems that are shared with many other large cities. If you turn on the local news here, it is NOT 30 minutes of Federal news.

I hope what you mean when you say that -- is Federal officials in the Capitol-White House area. How you make the jump to include the entire city plus its suburbs is beyond me. As a suburbian myself, what happens down there in the Federal area could just as well be 2000 miles away, given the access (meaning none) any non-privileged person has.

Having lived in the DMV myself, have to say I agree with tmoore.  SP Cook's statement is quite ignorant of the differences in MD, VA and DC proper.

[Alps]

As a road enthusiast, this does nothing for me. Alexandria is no easier to get to than DC. The Giants moved out to the Meadowlands to get out of the NYC travel pattern. Alexandria is like if the Giants moved to Jersey City instead.

[SP Cook]

What are the "differences" between someone inside the beltway but in Maryland, from one in Virginia, from one in DC?    As contrasted to Maryland or, yet more so, Virginia outside the beltway?    There is no difference.  All the same sort of people.

Its the same place.  Same type of people.  Same culture. 

I was reacting, more than anything, to a lot of sportswriters, including the usually great Tony Kornheiser and Jason Lacanfora from the WP who have gone totally off the rails.  Kornheiser called in "villainy" and went on a long rant like the Dodgers moving to LA.  Its just a team, that used to play, BTW, in Maryland, moving out of downtown to what can barely be called "suburban" Virginia.  The teams are not leaving town.  The Jets and Giants play in New Jersey.  They never left NY.

[jeffandnicole]

I like downtown sporting venues.

...when I'm visiting a city, staying in a hotel, and want to get to the ballpark/arena to see one game and cross the ballpark/arena off my list.  I'm more likely to use mass transit or locate a parking lot within a decent distance.

But for my home ballpark/arena, I want it to be outside of downtown.  I'm probably going to multiple games a year, and don't want to be stuck in downtown traffic, stuck trying to leave a parking garage, or taking an absurdly amount of time to get to a mass transit station and taking the mass transit to the game, in which the stop may or may not be decently close, and worry about the train times where the more regional trains can run in 30 - 60 minute intervals.

[tmoore952]

What are the "differences" between someone inside the beltway but in Maryland, from one in Virginia, from one in DC?    As contrasted to Maryland or, yet more so, Virginia outside the beltway?    There is no difference.  All the same sort of people.

Its the same place.  Same type of people.  Same culture. 

I was reacting, more than anything, to a lot of sportswriters, including the usually great Tony Kornheiser and Jason Lacanfora from the WP who have gone totally off the rails.  Kornheiser called in "villainy" and went on a long rant like the Dodgers moving to LA.  Its just a team, that used to play, BTW, in Maryland, moving out of downtown to what can barely be called "suburban" Virginia.  The teams are not leaving town.  The Jets and Giants play in New Jersey.  They never left NY.

I've got a lot to do today and am not going to write a book, but Washington is a rather transient place in that many people who live here are not from the area (myself included). There are a lot of young professionals in the area. It's not like a town in Illinois that I visit every few years, where a good number of people are born and never leave. So, there is a lot of variety of people in the DMV. As far as differences between the areas, I can only speak for myself -- I have lived in both the VA and MD suburbs, and it all had to do with proximity to work, specifically not having to cross the river, as those are natural choke points.

As far as Kornheiser is concerned, if PTI is to be believed, he can't be bothered to leave his attic to go to the studio. So I generally don't listen to his rants about having to travel.

[Rothman]

What are the "differences" between someone inside the beltway but in Maryland, from one in Virginia, from one in DC?    As contrasted to Maryland or, yet more so, Virginia outside the beltway?    There is no difference.  All the same sort of people.

Its the same place.  Same type of people.  Same culture. 

Dear heavens, you ask a question and then provide an answer that fits your ignorant view.  What's the point of the rest of us laying out the complex and different social fabrics between not only the states, but the counties and neighborhoods within the DMV (I hate that term, but since it has come into fashion, so be it), when you've already determined that your simplistic and ignorant view is already the truth?

[webny99]

What are the "differences" between someone inside the beltway but in Maryland, from one in Virginia, from one in DC?    As contrasted to Maryland or, yet more so, Virginia outside the beltway?    There is no difference.  All the same sort of people.

Its the same place.  Same type of people.  Same culture. 

A city can rarely/never be lumped in with its suburbs to make any sort of blanket statement, unless you're talking about something external like weather or climate. For example, much of Detroit city proper is blighted, yet it has some of the best suburbs in the nation. I can't speak for DC but I can't imagine you could really mistake Alexandria or Hyattsville for the National Mall.

[Flint1979]

I like downtown sporting venues.

...when I'm visiting a city, staying in a hotel, and want to get to the ballpark/arena to see one game and cross the ballpark/arena off my list.  I'm more likely to use mass transit or locate a parking lot within a decent distance.

But for my home ballpark/arena, I want it to be outside of downtown.  I'm probably going to multiple games a year, and don't want to be stuck in downtown traffic, stuck trying to leave a parking garage, or taking an absurdly amount of time to get to a mass transit station and taking the mass transit to the game, in which the stop may or may not be decently close, and worry about the train times where the more regional trains can run in 30 - 60 minute intervals.

I'll use Pittsburgh as an example. I find Pittsburgh to be a difficult city to drive in because of the terrain and the amount of traffic in a strange street system. I stayed outside of Pittsburgh the first time I went there and stayed downtown the second. The first time I thought it took me forever to get downtown and find a place to park and then walk or find public transportation to the stadium. This is the Pirates I'm talking about btw.

Now as for a city like Detroit that I know like the back of my hand I find it easy to find free parking in the city and take a shuttle or public transportation to the stadium and all of Detroit's sports venues are in the same area so this can be done for all of the cities teams.

[Alps]

I like downtown sporting venues.

...when I'm visiting a city, staying in a hotel, and want to get to the ballpark/arena to see one game and cross the ballpark/arena off my list.  I'm more likely to use mass transit or locate a parking lot within a decent distance.

But for my home ballpark/arena, I want it to be outside of downtown.  I'm probably going to multiple games a year, and don't want to be stuck in downtown traffic, stuck trying to leave a parking garage, or taking an absurdly amount of time to get to a mass transit station and taking the mass transit to the game, in which the stop may or may not be decently close, and worry about the train times where the more regional trains can run in 30 - 60 minute intervals.

I'll use Pittsburgh as an example. I find Pittsburgh to be a difficult city to drive in because of the terrain and the amount of traffic in a strange street system. I stayed outside of Pittsburgh the first time I went there and stayed downtown the second. The first time I thought it took me forever to get downtown and find a place to park and then walk or find public transportation to the stadium. This is the Pirates I'm talking about btw.

Now as for a city like Detroit that I know like the back of my hand I find it easy to find free parking in the city and take a shuttle or public transportation to the stadium and all of Detroit's sports venues are in the same area so this can be done for all of the cities teams.

I've had no issue navigating Pittsburgh cleanly. The sports venues are all right at the point, just follow the Interstate or other major state freeway there.

[webny99]

I'll use Pittsburgh as an example. I find Pittsburgh to be a difficult city to drive in because of the terrain and the amount of traffic in a strange street system. I stayed outside of Pittsburgh the first time I went there and stayed downtown the second. The first time I thought it took me forever to get downtown and find a place to park and then walk or find public transportation to the stadium. This is the Pirates I'm talking about btw.

Now as for a city like Detroit that I know like the back of my hand I find it easy to find free parking in the city and take a shuttle or public transportation to the stadium and all of Detroit's sports venues are in the same area so this can be done for all of the cities teams.

I've had no issue navigating Pittsburgh cleanly. The sports venues are all right at the point, just follow the Interstate or other major state freeway there.

Pittsburgh is definitely an interesting contrast to Detroit, though. Detroit has an expansive grid that's fairly easy to follow while Pittsburgh has hardly any semblance of a grid and could be tricky to find your way around once off the interstate (not saying the sports venues, just in general).

[tmoore952]

I'll use Pittsburgh as an example. I find Pittsburgh to be a difficult city to drive in because of the terrain and the amount of traffic in a strange street system. I stayed outside of Pittsburgh the first time I went there and stayed downtown the second. The first time I thought it took me forever to get downtown and find a place to park and then walk or find public transportation to the stadium. This is the Pirates I'm talking about btw.

Now as for a city like Detroit that I know like the back of my hand I find it easy to find free parking in the city and take a shuttle or public transportation to the stadium and all of Detroit's sports venues are in the same area so this can be done for all of the cities teams.

I've had no issue navigating Pittsburgh cleanly. The sports venues are all right at the point, just follow the Interstate or other major state freeway there.

Pittsburgh is definitely an interesting contrast to Detroit, though. Detroit has an expansive grid that's fairly easy to follow while Pittsburgh has hardly any semblance of a grid and could be tricky to find your way around once off the interstate (not saying the sports venues, just in general).

Whatever grid Pittsburgh has, at least downtown, is wholly dependent on which of the two feeder rivers is closer to you.

[Alps]

I'll use Pittsburgh as an example. I find Pittsburgh to be a difficult city to drive in because of the terrain and the amount of traffic in a strange street system. I stayed outside of Pittsburgh the first time I went there and stayed downtown the second. The first time I thought it took me forever to get downtown and find a place to park and then walk or find public transportation to the stadium. This is the Pirates I'm talking about btw.

Now as for a city like Detroit that I know like the back of my hand I find it easy to find free parking in the city and take a shuttle or public transportation to the stadium and all of Detroit's sports venues are in the same area so this can be done for all of the cities teams.

I've had no issue navigating Pittsburgh cleanly. The sports venues are all right at the point, just follow the Interstate or other major state freeway there.

Pittsburgh is definitely an interesting contrast to Detroit, though. Detroit has an expansive grid that's fairly easy to follow while Pittsburgh has hardly any semblance of a grid and could be tricky to find your way around once off the interstate (not saying the sports venues, just in general).

Yes - I was going on the basis of "ease of access to sporting venues". Like vehicular access to MSG is basically impossible, you have to plan where to park and aim for that instead.

[Henry]

Yes - I was going on the basis of "ease of access to sporting venues". Like vehicular access to MSG is basically impossible, you have to plan where to park and aim for that instead.

That's true for any major sporting/concert venue. For example, vehicular access to Wrigley Field is downright nonexistent, but thankfully, the El Train and CTA buses make up for it.

As for the Wizards and Capitals leaving DC for VA, I don't know much about them, but I hope their owner has taken notes on how the Braves left downtown Atlanta for a new ballpark in the suburbs and built an entertainment district around it. If they can copy the Braves' blueprint, then I say go for it. In pretty much the same way that the former Atlanta ballpark was repurposed for college sports (football and track), I can see the old arena continuing to be used by Georgetown for basketball and gymnastics, because it still has some good years left in it.

[SP Cook]

What are the "differences" between someone inside the beltway but in Maryland, from one in Virginia, from one in DC?    As contrasted to Maryland or, yet more so, Virginia outside the beltway?    There is no difference.  All the same sort of people.

Its the same place.  Same type of people.  Same culture. 

Dear heavens, you ask a question and then provide an answer that fits your ignorant view.  What's the point of the rest of us laying out the complex and different social fabrics between not only the states, but the counties and neighborhoods within the DMV (I hate that term, but since it has come into fashion...

The very existance of the term DMV, proves my point.  It is a metro, and, as pointed out, among the most self selected metros in the country.  The "Commanders" are still the DMV's team, followed by DMV people.  Even though they play in MD, and used to play in DC, and someday might play in VA, or, heck Shepherdstown WV, where the Bullets used to train. 

No one is leaving town, and it is one metro, with one sort of people.

[Rothman]

What are the "differences" between someone inside the beltway but in Maryland, from one in Virginia, from one in DC?    As contrasted to Maryland or, yet more so, Virginia outside the beltway?    There is no difference.  All the same sort of people.

Its the same place.  Same type of people.  Same culture. 

Dear heavens, you ask a question and then provide an answer that fits your ignorant view.  What's the point of the rest of us laying out the complex and different social fabrics between not only the states, but the counties and neighborhoods within the DMV (I hate that term, but since it has come into fashion...

The very existance of the term DMV, proves my point.  It is a metro, and, as pointed out, among the most self selected metros in the country.  The "Commanders" are still the DMV's team, followed by DMV people.  Even though they play in MD, and used to play in DC, and someday might play in VA, or, heck Shepherdstown WV, where the Bullets used to train. 

No one is leaving town, and it is one metro, with one sort of people.

How dare you bring the discussion back to the original topic?

[The Nature Boy]

My biggest pet peeve is the assumption that the DMV is just federal workers or people who work in adjacent industries. There are people who are born and raised here or who move here for other types of jobs. Calling it all "the swamp" is just spreading a nonsensical and frankly insulting talking point.

As for cultural differences - I notice that people who live in the District are more insular than people who live in the core cities of other metro areas. People from DC don't like venturing out into the suburbs. It's also a metro area with a federal district and two states. State politics influences culture to some extent. Virginia's history and politics are different than Maryland and DC.


Is it one metro area? Sure. Is it a monoculture? Absolutely not.

[NWI_Irish96]

My biggest pet peeve is the assumption that the DMV is just federal workers or people who work in adjacent industries. There are people who are born and raised here or who move here for other types of jobs. Calling it all "the swamp" is just spreading a nonsensical and frankly insulting talking point.

As for cultural differences - I notice that people who live in the District are more insular than people who live in the core cities of other metro areas. People from DC don't like venturing out into the suburbs. It's also a metro area with a federal district and two states. State politics influences culture to some extent. Virginia's history and politics are different than Maryland and DC.


Is it one metro area? Sure. Is it a monoculture? Absolutely not.

I've lived in three different multi-state metro areas, including DC, and to a certain extent they all share some of those traits. People from the city don't go to the suburbs much and the different states retain a fair amount of distinction despite being part of the same metro.

DC is certainly unique in that it has so many Federal employees, but keep in mind that a really small percentage of them are political hires. The overwhelming majority of them are like me, and do the same job the same way from one administration to the next. Not really different than people working for private companies.

[Joseph R P]

What are the "differences" between someone inside the beltway but in Maryland, from one in Virginia, from one in DC?    As contrasted to Maryland or, yet more so, Virginia outside the beltway?    There is no difference.  All the same sort of people.

Its the same place.  Same type of people.  Same culture. 

Dear heavens, you ask a question and then provide an answer that fits your ignorant view.  What's the point of the rest of us laying out the complex and different social fabrics between not only the states, but the counties and neighborhoods within the DMV (I hate that term, but since it has come into fashion...

The very existance of the term DMV, proves my point.  It is a metro, and, as pointed out, among the most self selected metros in the country.  The "Commanders" are still the DMV's team, followed by DMV people.  Even though they play in MD, and used to play in DC, and someday might play in VA, or, heck Shepherdstown WV, where the Bullets used to train. 

No one is leaving town, and it is one metro, with one sort of people.

Nobody is denying that the sprawl around DC is one metro or that it even shares the same interests in national sports teams and such, but you implied that everybody in the metro is the same. Do you know the similarities and differences between people from College Park, Great Falls, Alexandria, Oxon Hill, and Columbia Heights? Every city, town, CDP, and neighborhood varies in history, income, architecture, food, art, college sports teams, and a bunch of other miscellaneous factors that play big roles in the culture, vibe, experience, and demographics of the various specific corners of the metro. It's ignorant to assume that a close geographic proximity between the sections of a region means they're all the same.