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New MUTCD announced

Started by Alps, October 05, 2018, 01:10:30 PM

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hbelkins

Quote from: Henry on May 28, 2024, 03:45:01 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 28, 2024, 02:41:31 PM
Quote from: Rothman on February 25, 2024, 10:10:26 PM
Quote from: WhyLifeIs4 on February 25, 2024, 06:56:10 PMWill The MUTCD ever become a print?
Does a chicken have lips?

Actually, AASHTO is going to make a printed version of the new MUTCD available in the next week or two, according to an email I got from AASHTO last week.
Probably not going to be free unlike the PDF, so any idea on how much it will cost to get it?

Not yet. AASHTO's email said the books were being stocked and they would follow up with the details on how to get them, but that email hasn't yet arrived.
Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.


74/171FAN

Quote from: hbelkins on May 29, 2024, 06:57:01 PM
Quote from: Henry on May 28, 2024, 03:45:01 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 28, 2024, 02:41:31 PM
Quote from: Rothman on February 25, 2024, 10:10:26 PM
Quote from: WhyLifeIs4 on February 25, 2024, 06:56:10 PMWill The MUTCD ever become a print?
Does a chicken have lips?

Actually, AASHTO is going to make a printed version of the new MUTCD available in the next week or two, according to an email I got from AASHTO last week.
Probably not going to be free unlike the PDF, so any idea on how much it will cost to get it?

Not yet. AASHTO's email said the books were being stocked and they would follow up with the details on how to get them, but that email hasn't yet arrived.

I just received an email from AASHTO stating that the print copies of the 11th Edition of the MUTCD are now available.
I am now a PennDOT employee.  My opinions/views do not necessarily reflect the opinions/views of PennDOT.

Travel Mapping: https://travelmapping.net/user/?units=miles&u=markkos1992
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hbelkins

Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

CtrlAltDel

Has the for Streets and Highways always been part of the title of the Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices, or is it a more recent addition?
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Scott5114

Quote from: CtrlAltDel on May 31, 2024, 11:41:05 AMHas the for Streets and Highways always been part of the title of the Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices, or is it a more recent addition?

It's been there since the 1935 MUTCD.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

CtrlAltDel

Quote from: Scott5114 on June 02, 2024, 02:00:23 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on May 31, 2024, 11:41:05 AMHas the for Streets and Highways always been part of the title of the Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices, or is it a more recent addition?

It's been there since the 1935 MUTCD.

Now, do I feel silly. But thanks.
I-290   I-294   I-55   (I-74)   (I-72)   I-40   I-30   US-59   US-190   TX-30   TX-6

SkyPesos

#331
New addition I found regarding enhanced mile markers. Looks like the background color would have to be green now.

Quote...if enhanced reference location signs are used, they shall be vertical signs having a green background with a white legend and border, except for the route shield, which shall be the standard color and shape.

I wonder what this means for the states that use blue enhanced mile markers (Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky, Tennessee, Wisconsin off the top of my head). Besides WI (which I don't know the status of), the other four states are replacing older mile markers with newer ones in recent years, but still retaining the blue background color.

Great Lakes Roads

Quote from: SkyPesos on June 24, 2024, 07:57:35 AMNew addition I found regarding enhanced mile markers. Looks like the background color would have to be green now.

Quote...if enhanced reference location signs are used, they shall be vertical signs having a green background with a white legend and border, except for the route shield, which shall be the standard color and shape.

I wonder what this means for the states that use blue enhanced mile markers (Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky, Tennessee, Wisconsin off the top of my head). Besides WI (which I don't know the status of), the other four states are replacing older mile markers with newer ones in recent years, but still retaining the blue background color.

INDOT just added enhanced mile-markers on I-69 in Evansville sometime within the past few months, and it's BLUE instead of GREEN...
-Jay Seaburg

hobsini2

Quote from: SkyPesos on June 24, 2024, 07:57:35 AMNew addition I found regarding enhanced mile markers. Looks like the background color would have to be green now.

Quote...if enhanced reference location signs are used, they shall be vertical signs having a green background with a white legend and border, except for the route shield, which shall be the standard color and shape.

I wonder what this means for the states that use blue enhanced mile markers (Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky, Tennessee, Wisconsin off the top of my head). Besides WI (which I don't know the status of), the other four states are replacing older mile markers with newer ones in recent years, but still retaining the blue background color.
Wisconsin uses the blue ones in metro areas more than anywhere else. For instance, I know they are used on I-39/90 in Madison but not south of the Hwy N interchange. They still use the standard green without shields.
I knew it. I'm surrounded by assholes. Keep firing, assholes! - Dark Helmet (Spaceballs)

PColumbus73

Is there any noticeable benefit to enhanced versus typical mile-markers? Blue versus green? I think I prefer the typical mile-marker as the numbers for the mileage is largest and easier to read at high-speed.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: PColumbus73 on July 05, 2024, 09:05:31 PMIs there any noticeable benefit to enhanced versus typical mile-markers? Blue versus green? I think I prefer the typical mile-marker as the numbers for the mileage is largest and easier to read at high-speed.

If someone breaks down, the benefit is huge. All a motorist needs to do is read the sign to 911, AAA, tow operator, or whomever they need to contact.  If someone's in a crash or simply lost, they can be disoriented and having information from an enhanced sign to provide can quickly assist emergency responders to the location.

freebrickproductions

Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 06, 2024, 09:34:51 AM
Quote from: PColumbus73 on July 05, 2024, 09:05:31 PMIs there any noticeable benefit to enhanced versus typical mile-markers? Blue versus green? I think I prefer the typical mile-marker as the numbers for the mileage is largest and easier to read at high-speed.

If someone breaks down, the benefit is huge. All a motorist needs to do is read the sign to 911, AAA, tow operator, or whomever they need to contact.  If someone's in a crash or simply lost, they can be disoriented and having information from an enhanced sign to provide can quickly assist emergency responders to the location.


Plus, given that they're usually posted at <1 mile distances (I know TN does every 0.2 miles for theirs) means someone who's crashed or is otherwise stranded can give a more precise location too.
It's all fun & games until someone summons Cthulhu and brings about the end of the world.

I also collect traffic lights, road signs, fans, and railroad crossing equipment.

(They/Them)

SkyPesos

Quote from: hobsini2 on July 05, 2024, 05:11:34 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on June 24, 2024, 07:57:35 AMNew addition I found regarding enhanced mile markers. Looks like the background color would have to be green now.

Quote...if enhanced reference location signs are used, they shall be vertical signs having a green background with a white legend and border, except for the route shield, which shall be the standard color and shape.

I wonder what this means for the states that use blue enhanced mile markers (Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky, Tennessee, Wisconsin off the top of my head). Besides WI (which I don't know the status of), the other four states are replacing older mile markers with newer ones in recent years, but still retaining the blue background color.
Wisconsin uses the blue ones in metro areas more than anywhere else. For instance, I know they are used on I-39/90 in Madison but not south of the Hwy N interchange. They still use the standard green without shields.
Ohio also only uses blue enhanced ones in urban areas, and in the median. It's every 0.2 miles except in Cincinnati, where it's every 0.1. The 0.1 ones were particularly handy for giving out your location on a 911 call. Though every whole mile has both a blue mile marker in the median and a standard green one on the right side.

wriddle082

^ Greater Cincinnati was one of the first areas that started posting the reference markers, which I first saw around 1996 or 1997.  I'm thinking the expense of posting them every single 1/10 of a mile led to other areas posting them every 2/10 of a mile to save money (only need half as many signs).  Tennessee started posting them in urban areas around 1999 every 2/10 of a mile, and then maybe 10 years or so later started posting them on rural interstates and many other non-interstate freeways statewide.

My opinion: if the stretch of freeway is flat with clear lines of sight, then 2/10 of a mile intervals are fine.  But if there are curves or other obstructions that could prevent a stranded motorist from seeing the closest sign posted every 2/10 of a mile, then post at 1/10 in that immediate area.  Engineering studies should be performed to determine the appropriate sign placement interval for every stretch.

jeffandnicole

On highways, NJ posts the mileage signs every 0.2 miles, but they also post them on both sides of the post.  The only cost savings is using 1 post in the ground every 0.2 miles, not 1 every 0.1 mile.

CtrlAltDel

Quote from: wriddle082 on July 07, 2024, 09:09:48 AMMy opinion: if the stretch of freeway is flat with clear lines of sight, then 2/10 of a mile intervals are fine.  But if there are curves or other obstructions that could prevent a stranded motorist from seeing the closest sign posted every 2/10 of a mile, then post at 1/10 in that immediate area.  Engineering studies should be performed to determine the appropriate sign placement interval for every stretch.


I like the idea, but it seems as though it might cost less overall to just put the markers every 0.1 miles.
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Quillz

Quote from: SkyPesos on June 24, 2024, 07:57:35 AMNew addition I found regarding enhanced mile markers. Looks like the background color would have to be green now.

Quote...if enhanced reference location signs are used, they shall be vertical signs having a green background with a white legend and border, except for the route shield, which shall be the standard color and shape.

I wonder what this means for the states that use blue enhanced mile markers (Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky, Tennessee, Wisconsin off the top of my head). Besides WI (which I don't know the status of), the other four states are replacing older mile markers with newer ones in recent years, but still retaining the blue background color.
Nothing. Nothing at all will happen. The MUTCD are guidelines and are frequently ignored.

Rothman

Quote from: Quillz on October 21, 2024, 06:10:56 AM
Quote from: SkyPesos on June 24, 2024, 07:57:35 AMNew addition I found regarding enhanced mile markers. Looks like the background color would have to be green now.

Quote...if enhanced reference location signs are used, they shall be vertical signs having a green background with a white legend and border, except for the route shield, which shall be the standard color and shape.

I wonder what this means for the states that use blue enhanced mile markers (Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky, Tennessee, Wisconsin off the top of my head). Besides WI (which I don't know the status of), the other four states are replacing older mile markers with newer ones in recent years, but still retaining the blue background color.
Nothing. Nothing at all will happen. The MUTCD are guidelines and are frequently ignored.

Eh, a little more than just guidelines.  It's a matter of what FHWA chooses to enforce and how forceful the language is in the text ("shall").  And then you throw in when there may be external pressure to enforce it (e.g., NY's "Cuomo signs") by threatening funding.

(personal opinion emphasized)
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: Rothman on October 21, 2024, 06:54:11 AM
Quote from: Quillz on October 21, 2024, 06:10:56 AM
Quote from: SkyPesos on June 24, 2024, 07:57:35 AMNew addition I found regarding enhanced mile markers. Looks like the background color would have to be green now.

Quote...if enhanced reference location signs are used, they shall be vertical signs having a green background with a white legend and border, except for the route shield, which shall be the standard color and shape.

I wonder what this means for the states that use blue enhanced mile markers (Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky, Tennessee, Wisconsin off the top of my head). Besides WI (which I don't know the status of), the other four states are replacing older mile markers with newer ones in recent years, but still retaining the blue background color.
Nothing. Nothing at all will happen. The MUTCD are guidelines and are frequently ignored.

Eh, a little more than just guidelines.  It's a matter of what FHWA chooses to enforce and how forceful the language is in the text ("shall").  And then you throw in when there may be external pressure to enforce it (e.g., NY's "Cuomo signs") by threatening funding.

(personal opinion emphasized)

It's fully a matter of what FHWA chooses to enforce.  Since many projects include some level of federal funding, and chances are that includes milepost replacements along interstates, the states requests exemptions and as long as they're reasonable, they're granted. 

If the threads dealing with bad and the worst of signage are any indication, they don't generally fine or require replacement.  The Cuomo signs made news mainly because the feds did go after them for being prohibited, which isn't a normal course of action for the FHWA.

I'm more surprised every time a new standard comes out, people think the DOTs must drop everything and immediately spend millions (and yeah, the cost is higher than what most people think) to replace what currently exists.  Except in rare circumstances, most existing conditions are grandfathered in.


Shedingtonian

Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 21, 2024, 09:44:07 AM[...] Except in rare circumstances, most existing conditions are grandfathered in.

The vast majority of highway signs in my area suffer from this, signs are only replaced on the basis of them being ultimately broken or maybe to display new information. Most signs have pretty defective retroreflectivity rendering them useless at night, and new signs were actually recently installed, but they didn't bother replacing the older ones even despite the change in typeface.

In fact, when the huge "re-mile-ing" happened, they simply patched the new exit numbers over the old road signs, leading to signs like this:

If you can't tell what's wrong, the exit number glows way too much, on contrary to the rest of the sign.
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