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Most Isolated Major US City?

Started by webny99, December 09, 2024, 10:07:52 PM

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What is the most isolated major city/metro area in the 48 contiguous US states?

Spokane, WA
0 (0%)
Boise, ID
13 (32.5%)
Salt Lake City, UT
5 (12.5%)
Denver, CO
2 (5%)
Albuquerque, NM
3 (7.5%)
El Paso, TX
9 (22.5%)
Other (specify below)
8 (20%)

Total Members Voted: 40

Molandfreak

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 13, 2024, 11:54:35 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on December 13, 2024, 11:48:59 AMWell, the tip of the Keweenaw peninsula in Michigan has been acknowledged in here as the most remote drive distance from the nearest I-route in the contiguous 48 USA states, but there are no major cities anywhere near to there.

  :-P

Mike
True although isn't US 131 South of Cadillac interstate standard?
You need to drive on I-75 to get there from the UP, though. Or I-43 and take the ferry.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 05, 2023, 08:24:57 PMAASHTO attributes 28.5% of highway inventory shrink to bad road fan social media posts.


Roadgeekteen

Quote from: Molandfreak on December 13, 2024, 11:58:44 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 13, 2024, 11:54:35 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on December 13, 2024, 11:48:59 AMWell, the tip of the Keweenaw peninsula in Michigan has been acknowledged in here as the most remote drive distance from the nearest I-route in the contiguous 48 USA states, but there are no major cities anywhere near to there.

  :-P

Mike
True although isn't US 131 South of Cadillac interstate standard?
You need to drive on I-75 to get there from the UP, though. Or I-43 and take the ferry.
Bruh I was thinking on the one near Traverse City. Oops.
My username has been outdated since August 2023 but I'm too lazy to change it

US 89

Quote from: JayhawkCO on December 11, 2024, 03:03:11 PMAlright, finally got my data collected. Here are all of the cities, note cities not metro areas, that are at least 175 miles away from a U.S. city that's at least 50% its population, excluding anything that's within 30 miles of it. Obviously the top few are outliers just because they're so large. Distances are great circle distances, not via road.

New York - N/A
Honolulu - 2,394 miles to San Francisco
Anchorage - 1,434 miles to Seattle

Los Angeles - 1,741 miles to Chicago
Chicago - 664 miles to Philadelphia
Jacksonville - 341 miles to Charlotte
Phoenix - 298 miles to San Diego
Minneapolis - 232 miles to Madison
El Paso - 230 miles to Albuquerque
Albuquerque - 230 miles to El Paso
Boise - 229 miles to Kennewick
Atlanta - 215 miles to Nashville
Miami - 204 miles to Orlando
Las Vegas - 199 miles to Riverside
Memphis - 196 miles to Nashville
Nashville - 196 miles to Memphis
St. Louis - 195 miles to Springfield
Boston - 190 miles to New York
Houston - 189 miles to San Antonio
Billings - 178 miles to Great Falls
Rapid City - 175 miles to Casper


I want to note that Salt Lake City is not on this list because Provo is a little more than half its population and is 38 miles away. I definitely wouldn't say Provo is a suburb of Salt Lake, but the greater Wasatch Front does more or less function as one sprawled metro at this point in a way it probably did not 30-40 years ago.

SEWIGuy

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 13, 2024, 11:54:35 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on December 13, 2024, 11:48:59 AMWell, the tip of the Keweenaw peninsula in Michigan has been acknowledged in here as the most remote drive distance from the nearest I-route in the contiguous 48 USA states, but there are no major cities anywhere near to there.

  :-P

Mike
True although isn't US 131 South of Cadillac interstate standard?


The tip of the Keweenaw is much closer to the intersection of I-41/43 in Green Bay than it is to Cadillac.

JayhawkCO

Quote from: US 89 on December 13, 2024, 12:26:28 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on December 11, 2024, 03:03:11 PMAlright, finally got my data collected. Here are all of the cities, note cities not metro areas, that are at least 175 miles away from a U.S. city that's at least 50% its population, excluding anything that's within 30 miles of it. Obviously the top few are outliers just because they're so large. Distances are great circle distances, not via road.

New York - N/A
Honolulu - 2,394 miles to San Francisco
Anchorage - 1,434 miles to Seattle

Los Angeles - 1,741 miles to Chicago
Chicago - 664 miles to Philadelphia
Jacksonville - 341 miles to Charlotte
Phoenix - 298 miles to San Diego
Minneapolis - 232 miles to Madison
El Paso - 230 miles to Albuquerque
Albuquerque - 230 miles to El Paso
Boise - 229 miles to Kennewick
Atlanta - 215 miles to Nashville
Miami - 204 miles to Orlando
Las Vegas - 199 miles to Riverside
Memphis - 196 miles to Nashville
Nashville - 196 miles to Memphis
St. Louis - 195 miles to Springfield
Boston - 190 miles to New York
Houston - 189 miles to San Antonio
Billings - 178 miles to Great Falls
Rapid City - 175 miles to Casper


I want to note that Salt Lake City is not on this list because Provo is a little more than half its population and is 38 miles away. I definitely wouldn't say Provo is a suburb of Salt Lake, but the greater Wasatch Front does more or less function as one sprawled metro at this point in a way it probably did not 30-40 years ago.

Similar story with Denver and Colorado Springs.

hotdogPi

I would say the reason Denver is not isolated is more because of the cities to the north, not the south; you have the edge of the suburbs (e.g. Broomfield), Boulder, Longmont, Loveland, and Fort Collins all without too much of a gap.
Clinched

Traveled, plus
US 13, 50
MA 22, 35, 40, 53, 107, 109, 126, 141, 159
NH 27, 78, 111A(E); CA 90; NY 366; GA 42, 140; FL A1A, 7; CT 32, 320; VT 2A, 5A; PA 3, 51, 60, WA 202; QC 162, 165, 263; 🇬🇧A100, A3211, A3213, A3215, A4222; 🇫🇷95 D316

Lowest untraveled: 36

JayhawkCO

Quote from: hotdogPi on December 13, 2024, 01:17:01 PMI would say the reason Denver is not isolated is more because of the cities to the north, not the south; you have the edge of the suburbs (e.g. Broomfield), Boulder, Longmont, Loveland, and Fort Collins all without too much of a gap.

There's basically only a minimal gap from Fountain all the way up to Wellington at this point.

Rothman

Quote from: US 89 on December 13, 2024, 12:26:28 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on December 11, 2024, 03:03:11 PMAlright, finally got my data collected. Here are all of the cities, note cities not metro areas, that are at least 175 miles away from a U.S. city that's at least 50% its population, excluding anything that's within 30 miles of it. Obviously the top few are outliers just because they're so large. Distances are great circle distances, not via road.

New York - N/A
Honolulu - 2,394 miles to San Francisco
Anchorage - 1,434 miles to Seattle

Los Angeles - 1,741 miles to Chicago
Chicago - 664 miles to Philadelphia
Jacksonville - 341 miles to Charlotte
Phoenix - 298 miles to San Diego
Minneapolis - 232 miles to Madison
El Paso - 230 miles to Albuquerque
Albuquerque - 230 miles to El Paso
Boise - 229 miles to Kennewick
Atlanta - 215 miles to Nashville
Miami - 204 miles to Orlando
Las Vegas - 199 miles to Riverside
Memphis - 196 miles to Nashville
Nashville - 196 miles to Memphis
St. Louis - 195 miles to Springfield
Boston - 190 miles to New York
Houston - 189 miles to San Antonio
Billings - 178 miles to Great Falls
Rapid City - 175 miles to Casper


I want to note that Salt Lake City is not on this list because Provo is a little more than half its population and is 38 miles away. I definitely wouldn't say Provo is a suburb of Salt Lake, but the greater Wasatch Front does more or less function as one sprawled metro at this point in a way it probably did not 30-40 years ago.

Well, they did get rid of Point of the Mountain.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

doorknob60

#83
I live in Boise, and while I haven't even been to El Paso, I think El Paso seems more isolated. Sure, you have Juarez right there. But if you want to travel to another major city, you have to go a long ways in any direction. If you want to travel to a CSA of 2 million+ (besides Juarez), here's how far you have to go from Boise and El Paso. I picked the 4 closest.

From Boise:
Salt Lake City: 340 miles
Portland: 430 miles
Seattle: 505 miles
Sacramento: 550 miles

From El Paso:
Phoenix: 430 miles
San Antonio: 550 miles
Fort Worth: 600 miles
Denver: 635 miles


I use 2 million CSA as the cut off, as that's the kind of city you might travel to for a major concert, a major league sports game, a larger airport with more international flights, an IKEA, etc. Sorry Tucson and Albuquerque, good sized cities, but you don't fit in that category.

El Paso is a little farther from the bigger cities than Boise is. And having Juarez in your backyard, doesn't change the fact that putting together the two, you're still isolated from everything else. And Juarez lacks a lot of those amenities I listed that some people might travel for (unlike Denver and SLC, which are also isolated, but have those amenities already).

JayhawkCO

Quote from: hotdogPi on December 13, 2024, 01:17:01 PMI would say the reason Denver is not isolated is more because of the cities to the north, not the south; you have the edge of the suburbs (e.g. Broomfield), Boulder, Longmont, Loveland, and Fort Collins all without too much of a gap.

You can also make the same argument for Boise with Nampa, Meridian, Caldwell, etc.

Big John

Quote from: SEWIGuy on December 13, 2024, 12:46:50 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 13, 2024, 11:54:35 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on December 13, 2024, 11:48:59 AMWell, the tip of the Keweenaw peninsula in Michigan has been acknowledged in here as the most remote drive distance from the nearest I-route in the contiguous 48 USA states, but there are no major cities anywhere near to there.

  :-P

Mike
True although isn't US 131 South of Cadillac interstate standard?


The tip of the Keweenaw is much closer to the intersection of I-41/43 in Green Bay than it is to Cadillac.
and closer to the north end of I-39 just south of Wausaw.

Flint1979

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 13, 2024, 11:54:35 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on December 13, 2024, 11:48:59 AMWell, the tip of the Keweenaw peninsula in Michigan has been acknowledged in here as the most remote drive distance from the nearest I-route in the contiguous 48 USA states, but there are no major cities anywhere near to there.

  :-P

Mike
True although isn't US 131 South of Cadillac interstate standard?
For the most part it is but the Keweenaw Peninsula is nowhere near Cadillac. It's probably a 7 hour drive to the Keweenaw from Cadillac.

TempoNick

Quote from: US 89 on December 13, 2024, 12:26:28 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on December 11, 2024, 03:03:11 PMAlright, finally got my data collected. Here are all of the cities, note cities not metro areas, that are at least 175 miles away from a U.S. city that's at least 50% its population, excluding anything that's within 30 miles of it. Obviously the top few are outliers just because they're so large. Distances are great circle distances, not via road.

New York - N/A
Honolulu - 2,394 miles to San Francisco
Anchorage - 1,434 miles to Seattle

Los Angeles - 1,741 miles to Chicago
Chicago - 664 miles to Philadelphia
Jacksonville - 341 miles to Charlotte
Phoenix - 298 miles to San Diego
Minneapolis - 232 miles to Madison
El Paso - 230 miles to Albuquerque
Albuquerque - 230 miles to El Paso
Boise - 229 miles to Kennewick
Atlanta - 215 miles to Nashville
Miami - 204 miles to Orlando
Las Vegas - 199 miles to Riverside
Memphis - 196 miles to Nashville
Nashville - 196 miles to Memphis
St. Louis - 195 miles to Springfield
Boston - 190 miles to New York
Houston - 189 miles to San Antonio
Billings - 178 miles to Great Falls
Rapid City - 175 miles to Casper


I want to note that Salt Lake City is not on this list because Provo is a little more than half its population and is 38 miles away. I definitely wouldn't say Provo is a suburb of Salt Lake, but the greater Wasatch Front does more or less function as one sprawled metro at this point in a way it probably did not 30-40 years ago.

You're making the mistake so many people make. Who cares about City population. The metro population is what matters. Metro population is what determines what kind of businesses do business there and what kind amenities an area has. It's the difference between a Holiday inn being your nicest hotel in the area and a Hyatt.

Scott5114

Quote from: TempoNick on December 13, 2024, 09:20:37 PMYou're making the mistake so many people make. Who cares about City population. The metro population is what matters. Metro population is what determines what kind of businesses do business there and what kind amenities an area has. It's the difference between a Holiday inn being your nicest hotel in the area and a Hyatt.

I doubt he "made a mistake" and probably just didn't feel like faffing about with the data just to answer a question of curiosity on a Web forum. But since it's so important to you, I'm sure you're working on your own script as we speak...right?
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

JayhawkCO

Quote from: Scott5114 on December 13, 2024, 10:50:45 PM
Quote from: TempoNick on December 13, 2024, 09:20:37 PMYou're making the mistake so many people make. Who cares about City population. The metro population is what matters. Metro population is what determines what kind of businesses do business there and what kind amenities an area has. It's the difference between a Holiday inn being your nicest hotel in the area and a Hyatt.

I doubt he "made a mistake" and probably just didn't feel like faffing about with the data just to answer a question of curiosity on a Web forum. But since it's so important to you, I'm sure you're working on your own script as we speak...right?

Exactly. If someone wants to find me a data set than includes latitude, longitude, and population of metro areas, I'm happy to rerun the numbers.

ZLoth

Quote from: hotdogPi on December 11, 2024, 12:37:16 PMHow are you handling suburbs? If Spokane Valley was just a bit larger, Spokane would register as less than 10 miles.

I'm amused that the "Spokene International Airport" currently doesn't have international destinations. Spokene is also right next door to Coeur d'Alene, Idaho which is a nice place to visit.
Don't Drive Distrac... SQUIRREL!

mgk920

Quote from: Big John on December 13, 2024, 04:49:16 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on December 13, 2024, 12:46:50 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 13, 2024, 11:54:35 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on December 13, 2024, 11:48:59 AMWell, the tip of the Keweenaw peninsula in Michigan has been acknowledged in here as the most remote drive distance from the nearest I-route in the contiguous 48 USA states, but there are no major cities anywhere near to there.

  :-P

Mike
True although isn't US 131 South of Cadillac interstate standard?


The tip of the Keweenaw is much closer to the intersection of I-41/43 in Green Bay than it is to Cadillac.
and closer to the north end of I-39 just south of Wausaw.

Also closer to I-75 than it is to Cadillac, MI

Mike

US 89

Quote from: JayhawkCO on December 14, 2024, 08:43:37 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 13, 2024, 10:50:45 PM
Quote from: TempoNick on December 13, 2024, 09:20:37 PMYou're making the mistake so many people make. Who cares about City population. The metro population is what matters. Metro population is what determines what kind of businesses do business there and what kind amenities an area has. It's the difference between a Holiday inn being your nicest hotel in the area and a Hyatt.

I doubt he "made a mistake" and probably just didn't feel like faffing about with the data just to answer a question of curiosity on a Web forum. But since it's so important to you, I'm sure you're working on your own script as we speak...right?

Exactly. If someone wants to find me a data set than includes latitude, longitude, and population of metro areas, I'm happy to rerun the numbers.

Even using MSA population won't solve all the problems. Salt Lake City, Provo, and Ogden form three metropolitan areas despite being one urbanized corridor. Raleigh and Durham are two different MSAs. But Seattle and Tacoma are the same MSA.

You could sort by CSA, but some CSAs are so big they're unwieldy (Atlanta-Athens GA comes to mind), and some large MSAs aren't part of a CSA (such as Phoenix). And you still run into the same type of issue as you see with MSAs - the Denver CSA does not include Colorado Springs, for example.

webny99

Quote from: US 89 on December 14, 2024, 12:30:30 PMEven using MSA population won't solve all the problems. Salt Lake City, Provo, and Ogden form three metropolitan areas despite being one urbanized corridor. Raleigh and Durham are two different MSAs. But Seattle and Tacoma are the same MSA.

You could sort by CSA, but some CSAs are so big they're unwieldy (Atlanta-Athens GA comes to mind), and some large MSAs aren't part of a CSA (such as Phoenix). And you still run into the same type of issue as you see with MSAs - the Denver CSA does not include Colorado Springs, for example.

Right, I think the real mistake here, to the extent there was one, was assuming that SLC-Ogden-Provo were one MSA to begin with.

Quillz

It kind of goes against the spirit of the thread, but Eureka, CA and Crescent City, CA would probably qualify if we removed the population element. Both of these cities are almost entirely at the mercy of US-101 being open. CA-299 can be closed due to snow, US-199 has similar issues. I once got stuck in Arcata because I physically could not drive to Crescent City like I wanted to, because a rock slide happened due to some rain. There are no other parallel roads to US-101 in the Redwood Curtain. (And CA-299 was closed). Bad weather, you could be stuck for a while.

I bring it up because most of the other places mentioned in this thread at least always have multiple road connections. There is almost always at least one major highway in either direction. Not the case in the Redwood Curtain, where everything relies on US-101.



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