Got pulled over for going 7 MPH over.

Started by texaskdog, December 13, 2024, 08:01:30 PM

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jgb191

#50
May 2007: I was pulled over on I-10 eastbound approaching Kerrville, Texas.  The Speed Limit was 80 MPH, and the County sheriff told me he clocked me at 83 MPH.  The Sheriff informed me that he was just alerted to an emergency (while running my license and insurance in his patrol car) he had to respond to and he did not have the time to administer a citation to me; he did give me a stern warning to "slow it down!" in a very sharp tone before racing off.  And impeccably enough just several miles ahead, an accident involving 18-wheeler shut down the overpass at the TX-16 intersection in Kerrville forcing all traffic to exit and reenter the freeway.

Seems like Texas law enforcers are a lot more stringent than many other states.
We're so far south that we're not even considered "The South"


1995hoo

Quote from: freebrickproductions on December 15, 2024, 12:32:51 AMI mean, I tend to drive with a heavy foot on the gas as well, but there's absolutely a good few towns (like Town Creek, AL) where I set my cruise control right at the speed limit on my speedometer until I see the speed limit go back up.

I drop mine below the speed limit when I pass the speed camera in a school zone not far from our neighborhood because there have been multiple documented incidents of the camera ticketing people at times when the lower school zone speed limit is not in effect (that is, it's 25 mph when the yellow lights are flashing, 35 otherwise, and the camera is only supposed to operate when the lights are flashing, but it's given tickets based on a 25-mph limit at times when the 35-mph limit was in effect).

I also view neighborhood streets as being fundamentally different from arterials. I keep it to 25 on the street that runs in and out of our neighborhood because there are little kids around who will do things like chasing a ball into the street. Some people in our neighborhood think they're entitled to go 40 or more and they also think tailgating is a way to get other people to speed up, so I set my cruise control to ensure I do not speed up.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

Rothman

Makes me wonder about legal requirements for speed cameras to have a buffer above the speed limit and if any of them are federal.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

1995hoo

Quote from: Rothman on December 15, 2024, 10:50:19 AMMakes me wonder about legal requirements for speed cameras to have a buffer above the speed limit and if any of them are federal.

I remember seeing an article about speed cameras in Australia that said federal law there requires a 10% tolerance because of the cost of replacing or calibrating a speedometer, yet Victoria's speed cameras gave drivers only a 3 km/h cushion (obviously that's less than 10% at anything over about 18 mph). Not sure what ever came of it.

At the opposite extreme was the Belgian speed camera that clocked a Mini Cooper at Mach 3 (faster than the aircraft seen in my avatar).
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

michiganguy123

My cruise control is always set to 80 in a 70 in Michigan and I've never been pulled over, been past at least 15 state troopers by now. Don't slam the brakes and you won't stand out...

texaskdog

Quote from: michiganguy123 on December 15, 2024, 12:20:28 PMMy cruise control is always set to 80 in a 70 in Michigan and I've never been pulled over, been past at least 15 state troopers by now. Don't slam the brakes and you won't stand out...

Funny I didn't use mine figuring 7 was good, but I saw him turn around.  Took him forever to catch up to me.

texaskdog

Quote from: jgb191 on December 15, 2024, 10:17:41 AMMay 2007: I was pulled over on I-10 eastbound approaching Kerrville, Texas.  The Speed Limit was 80 MPH, and the County sheriff told me he clocked me at 83 MPH.  The Sheriff informed me that he was just alerted to an emergency (while running my license and insurance in his patrol car) he had to respond to and he did not have the time to administer a citation to me; he did give me a stern warning to "slow it down!" in a very sharp tone before racing off.  And impeccably enough just several miles ahead, an accident involving 18-wheeler shut down the overpass at the TX-16 intersection in Kerrville forcing all traffic to exit and reenter the freeway.

Seems like Texas law enforcers are a lot more stringent than many other states.

Lectures are fine if you're doing something wrong.  That guy was just power mad.

GaryV

Quote from: 1995hoo on December 15, 2024, 10:32:08 AM(that is, it's 25 mph when the yellow lights are flashing, 35 otherwise, and the camera is only supposed to operate when the lights are flashing, but it's given tickets based on a 25-mph limit at times when the 35-mph limit was in effect)

Must be caused by DST. (ducks and hides)

kkt

Quote from: wxfree on December 14, 2024, 06:41:16 PMThere's a legal precedent that the people have a right to be informed as to what conduct is prohibited by law and what isn't.  Laws can be declared unconstitutional for vagueness.  I think that's why the famous Montana speed limit was struck down, that it was found to inadequately inform drivers of what speeds are subject to legal consequences.

Was that why?  I thought it was because everyone with a hot car within 1000 miles of Montana would drive to Montana to find out how fast it would go and they got tired of the resulting wrecks.

vdeane

Quote from: michiganguy123 on December 15, 2024, 12:20:28 PMDon't slam the brakes and you won't stand out...
Around here, that probably would make you stand out, because practically everyone slams the brakes when they see a cop in the median or on the shoulder, even if they were already going near or even below the speed limit.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

kkt

Quote from: Rothman on December 15, 2024, 10:50:19 AMMakes me wonder about legal requirements for speed cameras to have a buffer above the speed limit and if any of them are federal.

There are speed cameras in many school zones here, and the speed cameras only operate when the yellow lights are flashing.  The speed limit also drops to 20 when children are present, but that would need an officer to observe.  The speed limit cameras supposedly have a safety margin, only ticketing people going over 25 even though the posted limit when the lights are flashing is 20.

wxfree

Quote from: kkt on December 15, 2024, 02:19:37 PM
Quote from: wxfree on December 14, 2024, 06:41:16 PMThere's a legal precedent that the people have a right to be informed as to what conduct is prohibited by law and what isn't.  Laws can be declared unconstitutional for vagueness.  I think that's why the famous Montana speed limit was struck down, that it was found to inadequately inform drivers of what speeds are subject to legal consequences.

Was that why?  I thought it was because everyone with a hot car within 1000 miles of Montana would drive to Montana to find out how fast it would go and they got tired of the resulting wrecks.


The source of all truth, Wickerpaedia, says that the law was struck down by the courts due to vagueness.  It gives a link that helped me find the supreme court decision.

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/mt-supreme-court/1110919.html

The Montana constitution says in Article II Section 17: "No person shall be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law."

The court ruling says in Paragraph 23: "It is a basic principle of due process that an enactment is void for vagueness if its prohibitions are not clearly defined.   Vague laws offend several important values.   First, because we assume that man is free to steer between lawful and unlawful conduct, we insist that laws give the person of ordinary intelligence a reasonable opportunity to know what is prohibited, so that he may act accordingly.   Vague laws may trap the innocent by not providing fair warning.   Second, if arbitrary and discriminatory enforcement is to be prevented, laws must provide explicit standards for those who apply them.   A vague law impermissibly delegates basic policy matters to policemen, judges, and juries for resolution on an ad hoc and subjective basis, with the attendant dangers of arbitrary and discriminatory application."

Paragraph 25: "We conclude that, as a speed limit, § 61-8-303(1), MCA, does not meet these requirements of the Due Process Clause of Article II, Section 17, of the Montana Constitution, nor does it further the values that the void-for-vagueness doctrine is intended to protect."

This principle is not unique to Montana.  It applies to every state through the federal Fourteenth Amendment: "nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law."

Here's an article on the vagueness doctrine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vagueness_doctrine

The last sentence in Paragraph 23 sounds like an interesting argument for requiring reasonable speed limits rather than relying on lax enforcement of deficient limits, as an argument against against letting police make up their own speed limits through secret enforcement standards.
I'd like to buy a vowel, Alex.  What is E?

kkt

Quote from: wxfree on December 15, 2024, 04:13:25 PM
Quote from: kkt on December 15, 2024, 02:19:37 PM
Quote from: wxfree on December 14, 2024, 06:41:16 PMThere's a legal precedent that the people have a right to be informed as to what conduct is prohibited by law and what isn't.  Laws can be declared unconstitutional for vagueness.  I think that's why the famous Montana speed limit was struck down, that it was found to inadequately inform drivers of what speeds are subject to legal consequences.

Was that why?  I thought it was because everyone with a hot car within 1000 miles of Montana would drive to Montana to find out how fast it would go and they got tired of the resulting wrecks.


The source of all truth, Wickerpaedia, says that the law was struck down by the courts due to vagueness.  It gives a link that helped me find the supreme court decision.

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/mt-supreme-court/1110919.html

The Montana constitution says in Article II Section 17: "No person shall be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law."

The court ruling says in Paragraph 23: "It is a basic principle of due process that an enactment is void for vagueness if its prohibitions are not clearly defined.   Vague laws offend several important values.   First, because we assume that man is free to steer between lawful and unlawful conduct, we insist that laws give the person of ordinary intelligence a reasonable opportunity to know what is prohibited, so that he may act accordingly.   Vague laws may trap the innocent by not providing fair warning.   Second, if arbitrary and discriminatory enforcement is to be prevented, laws must provide explicit standards for those who apply them.   A vague law impermissibly delegates basic policy matters to policemen, judges, and juries for resolution on an ad hoc and subjective basis, with the attendant dangers of arbitrary and discriminatory application."

Paragraph 25: "We conclude that, as a speed limit, § 61-8-303(1), MCA, does not meet these requirements of the Due Process Clause of Article II, Section 17, of the Montana Constitution, nor does it further the values that the void-for-vagueness doctrine is intended to protect."

This principle is not unique to Montana.  It applies to every state through the federal Fourteenth Amendment: "nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law."

Here's an article on the vagueness doctrine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vagueness_doctrine

The last sentence in Paragraph 23 sounds like an interesting argument for requiring reasonable speed limits rather than relying on lax enforcement of deficient limits, as an argument against against letting police make up their own speed limits through secret enforcement standards.

Okay, thank you.  Good, I'm glad, although even the posted speed limit can be too high if conditions are unfavorable.

Quillz

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 14, 2024, 04:53:08 PMIf anything this thread proves there is probably too much analysis of speed limits in general.  If you don't drive like a dickhead then you probably aren't getting pulled over often.
Reminds me of one time I was waiting to turn left. The guy behind me didn't like that I wasn't running the red light, so he zoomed past me by illegally cutting into the oncoming traffic lanes. It was night, so he didn't realize a cop was right behind him. I have never been more satisfied seeing someone get pulled over in my life.

hbelkins

This thread is a good reminder of why I invested in a Valentine One.*

*Not applicable in the Commonwealth of Virginia.
Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Rothman

Quote from: hbelkins on December 16, 2024, 01:59:43 PMThis thread is a good reminder of why I invested in a Valentine One.*

*Not applicable in the Commonwealth of Virginia.

I still hear of people who have those that still get pulled over.  Detects the cop when the cop detects you kind of thing.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

epzik8

Quote from: Rothman on December 16, 2024, 03:25:20 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 16, 2024, 01:59:43 PMThis thread is a good reminder of why I invested in a Valentine One.*

*Not applicable in the Commonwealth of Virginia.

I still hear of people who have those that still get pulled over.  Detects the cop when the cop detects you kind of thing.

What a shame.
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jeffandnicole

Quote from: hbelkins on December 16, 2024, 01:59:43 PMThis thread is a good reminder of why I invested in a Valentine One.*

*Not applicable in the Commonwealth of Virginia.

Only useful if you are normally speeding well above the limit.  If you're going the speed everyone else is doing, or less, then it's not worth the money. 

I was always amused when I would see these in vehicles I'm passing.  If I'm not worry about getting a ticket going 10 mph over, I've quite sure cops aren't going to bust these people going 4 mph over the limit.  They probably still slam on the brakes the moment the thing chirps.

Flint1979

Quote from: michiganguy123 on December 15, 2024, 12:20:28 PMMy cruise control is always set to 80 in a 70 in Michigan and I've never been pulled over, been past at least 15 state troopers by now. Don't slam the brakes and you won't stand out...
Quote from: texaskdog on December 15, 2024, 01:20:39 PM
Quote from: michiganguy123 on December 15, 2024, 12:20:28 PMMy cruise control is always set to 80 in a 70 in Michigan and I've never been pulled over, been past at least 15 state troopers by now. Don't slam the brakes and you won't stand out...

Funny I didn't use mine figuring 7 was good, but I saw him turn around.  Took him forever to catch up to me.
One time about 20 years ago I was on my way to a Red Wings game in Detroit and was going 90 mph on SB I-75 just before exit 93 and saw a cop coming NB turning around, I figured he was after me so I noticed the traffic was backed up at the off ramp for exit 93 and went on the shoulder and drove around all the traffic stopped there, as I got up to Dixie Highway I saw the cop fly by on the highway. I just took a right on Dixie and took Woodward into Detroit after that.

ET21

In the 14 years I've been driving, I've always had to go 10-15 mph over just to keep up with traffic on highways. :-D

I think the only times I'm at or below the speed limit on highways is either slow traffic or bad weather
The local weatherman, trust me I can be 99.9% right!
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IN: I-80, I-94
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WI: I-90
MI: I-94, I-196
MN: I-90

Flint1979

I know this isn't on topic as far as the OP goes but there has been talk about slamming on the brakes. One thing I really hate is how people feel the need to slam on their brakes when going around a curve on a freeway or going over a hill on a freeway. An example of each is in Detroit, I-75 near the Davison exit and the entire Southfield Freeway.

freebrickproductions

Quote from: Flint1979 on December 16, 2024, 07:24:52 PMI know this isn't on topic as far as the OP goes but there has been talk about slamming on the brakes. One thing I really hate is how people feel the need to slam on their brakes when going around a curve ... or going over a hill...

I agree. :nod:
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webny99

Quote from: Quillz on December 15, 2024, 11:53:16 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 14, 2024, 04:53:08 PMIf anything this thread proves there is probably too much analysis of speed limits in general.  If you don't drive like a dickhead then you probably aren't getting pulled over often.
Reminds me of one time I was waiting to turn left. The guy behind me didn't like that I wasn't running the red light, so he zoomed past me by illegally cutting into the oncoming traffic lanes. It was night, so he didn't realize a cop was right behind him. I have never been more satisfied seeing someone get pulled over in my life.

I saw something similar bur worse happen once, except no cops were involved. I was second in line when the light turned red. The car in front of me went - on red, mind you - but I decided not to push it and stopped. But then the guy behind me, who was actually third in line when the light changed, zoomed around me and across the oncoming lanes even as the light on the cross street turned green. I was so stunned I couldn't even be angry.

TheHighwayMan3561

The last three times I've been pulled over, none of them gave me any written warning or documentation at the conclusion of the stop which pretty much screams that the purpose of the stop was to go fishing.
I make Poiponen look smart

Quillz

Quote from: TheHighwayMan3561 on December 17, 2024, 01:03:37 AMThe last three times I've been pulled over, none of them gave me any written warning or documentation at the conclusion of the stop which pretty much screams that the purpose of the stop was to go fishing.
Got pulled over once because I worked a 14-hour shift and on the way home weaved one lane. Cop pulled me over and asked if I was high or doing drugs. Had me follow his finger. Then said I could go. 



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