Rank Your States Border Crossings in order of volume of travel crossed

Started by Roadgeekteen, December 22, 2024, 02:51:07 AM

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Roadgeekteen

Quote from: vdeane on December 22, 2024, 08:45:18 PM
Quote from: webny99 on December 22, 2024, 06:51:48 PM
Quote from: vdeane on December 22, 2024, 04:09:06 PM
Quote from: Rothman on December 22, 2024, 11:26:49 AM
Quote from: webny99 on December 22, 2024, 10:56:02 AM
Quote from: Rothman on December 22, 2024, 10:12:08 AM*looks forward to mostly anecdotes and gut feelings*

And yet, New York is... actually pretty cut and dry?

...

If this isn't a case in point, I don't know what is.
Indeed.  Behold... THE DATA!

I am thoroughly confused as to how this is somehow being weaponized as a representation of anecdotes and gut feels. If anything, the data and everything else posted so far shows that NY DOES have clear tiers (despite my whiff on CT vs. PA), but I hope another thread devolving into pettiness makes everyone else feel better.
You were 1/5 on the ranking.
3 Upstate New Yorkers walk into a bar...
My username has been outdated since August 2023 but I'm too lazy to change it


Rothman

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 22, 2024, 09:13:18 PM
Quote from: vdeane on December 22, 2024, 08:45:18 PM
Quote from: webny99 on December 22, 2024, 06:51:48 PM
Quote from: vdeane on December 22, 2024, 04:09:06 PM
Quote from: Rothman on December 22, 2024, 11:26:49 AM
Quote from: webny99 on December 22, 2024, 10:56:02 AM
Quote from: Rothman on December 22, 2024, 10:12:08 AM*looks forward to mostly anecdotes and gut feelings*

And yet, New York is... actually pretty cut and dry?

...

If this isn't a case in point, I don't know what is.
Indeed.  Behold... THE DATA!

I am thoroughly confused as to how this is somehow being weaponized as a representation of anecdotes and gut feels. If anything, the data and everything else posted so far shows that NY DOES have clear tiers (despite my whiff on CT vs. PA), but I hope another thread devolving into pettiness makes everyone else feel better.
You were 1/5 on the ranking.
3 Upstate New Yorkers walk into a bar...

...and it was awesome.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

webny99

Quote from: vdeane on December 22, 2024, 08:45:18 PM
Quote
QuoteIndeed.  Behold... THE DATA!

I am thoroughly confused as to how this is somehow being weaponized as a representation of anecdotes and gut feels. If anything, the data and everything else posted so far shows that NY DOES have clear tiers (despite my whiff on CT vs. PA), but I hope another thread devolving into pettiness makes everyone else feel better.
You were 1/5 on the ranking.

3 of 3 on the tiers, while correctly stating that 4 and 5 are interchangeable (which they absolutely are after accounting for the inexact science of AADT counts and the numerous local crossings that don't have counts.)




Quote from: Rothman on December 22, 2024, 09:53:24 PM
Quote3 Upstate New Yorkers walk into a bar...

...and it was awesome.

Good, I'm glad you thought so.


hbelkins

At first glance, I thought this may have been a thread about which state border crossing you individually have crossed most often.

For me, it's definitely I-64 into West Virginia. After that? Probably US 23 into Virginia.

KYTC has traffic count maps online, but I'm not going to go poking around to see which Louisville or Cincinnati Ohio River crossing gets the most traffic, although I'd imagine 2024 counts will be skewed by the closure of the southbound I-471 bridge.
Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

paulthemapguy

I was struggling a bit on this question for Illinois, because freight traffic and tourist traffic are separate considerations. It brought up the interesting question of how answers to this proposition might differ based on freight volume versus passenger volume, or tourist volume.  The IL/WI border would dominate for tourist traffic.

I would guess:
1. Indiana.  Between the I-80/94, I-90, and I-70 border crossings, that border is bound to have a ton of traffic coming to/from the east.  Everything coming out of Illinois bound for the east coast, or for Michigan, has to go through Indiana first, with the very minor exception of those using I-24 through Kentucky.
2. Wisconsin. Tons of tourist traffic going north, plus everything going west by way of I-90 and I-94. Chicago has by far the strongest pull in terms of trip generation. So statistically, if almost all Illinois trips are starting or ending in Chicagoland, almost all out-of-state trips will involve either Indiana or Wisconsin.
3 and 4 are tricky. 3 will probably be Missouri just because of the volume of trips in the Metro-East that will involve a crossing of the Mississippi River. But I-80's crossing into and out of Iowa is a very highly-traveled freight connection. Look at all that freight going east-west through the Quad Cities and Burlington! I'll put Iowa at number 4 for now, but I will happily stand corrected if it comes to that.


Kentucky obviously brings up the rear at #5.

And if Mr. Roth has the time to perform some consummate painstaking empirical research on this, he can do it himself.
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thspfc

Wisconsin, by state:
1. IL
2. MN
3. MI
4. IA

Minnesota, by state/province:
1. WI
2. ND
3. IA
4. SD
5. ON
6. MB
7. MI by water

WISDOT's traffic counts map makes it easy to find AADT at WI border crossings
1. I-94 at IL - 97,000
2. I-94 at MN - 82,000
3. I-39/90 at IL - 63,000
4. I-535/US-53 at MN - 29,000
5. I-90 at MN - 28,000
6. WI-64 at MN - 28,000
7. US-61/151 at IA - 23,000
8. US-41 at MI - 18,000
9. US-10 at MN - 17,000
10. WI-31 at IL - 17,000
11. US-14/61 at MN - 16,000
12. US-12 at IL - 15,000
13. US-2 at MN - 15,000
14. US-8 at MN - 13,000
15. US-51 at IL - 12,000
16. WI-32 at IL - 11,000

vdeane

Quote from: webny99 on December 22, 2024, 10:17:00 PM
Quote from: vdeane on December 22, 2024, 08:45:18 PM
Quote
QuoteIndeed.  Behold... THE DATA!

I am thoroughly confused as to how this is somehow being weaponized as a representation of anecdotes and gut feels. If anything, the data and everything else posted so far shows that NY DOES have clear tiers (despite my whiff on CT vs. PA), but I hope another thread devolving into pettiness makes everyone else feel better.
You were 1/5 on the ranking.

3 of 3 on the tiers, while correctly stating that 4 and 5 are interchangeable (which they absolutely are after accounting for the inexact science of AADT counts and the numerous local crossings that don't have counts.)




Quote from: Rothman on December 22, 2024, 09:53:24 PM
Quote3 Upstate New Yorkers walk into a bar...

...and it was awesome.

Good, I'm glad you thought so.


The gap between CT and PA is larger than the gap between PA and VT no matter how you slice it.  That said, I didn't bring in the data to snark at you.  I started working on putting that all together around 11 AM; it just took a couple hours to do and then I posted it once I finally got around to my main forum check for the day.

As for the small crossings, they would largely mirror how things are and I don't expect that they would change any rankings.  PA has a ton, but they're pretty much all rural.  Meanwhile many of CT's are exurban and many of NJ's are solidly suburban.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

webny99

Quote from: vdeane on December 23, 2024, 03:03:25 PMThe gap between CT and PA is larger than the gap between PA and VT no matter how you slice it.

Unless you count I-86 but not I-684. That may seem inconsistent at first glance, but they are majorly differentiated by the fact that I-86 has an exit (plus another pair of ramps) that's in PA. That means traffic has an opportunity to enter PA via I-86, take Exit 60, and not return to NY at all. That's a significant chunk of true cross-state traffic that's actually crossing the state line for good via I-86. Meanwhile, I-684 traffic does not have that same opportunity. It's entirely NY traffic that just happens to clip the corner of CT, and any of that traffic that's truly crossing the state line would already be accounted for at one of the other crossings.

In short: There's no way I-684 should count, but there's a strong case for I-86 to count because of Exit 60.



Quote from: vdeane on December 23, 2024, 03:03:25 PMThat said, I didn't bring in the data to snark at you.  I started working on putting that all together around 11 AM; it just took a couple hours to do and then I posted it once I finally got around to my main forum check for the day.

Understood, and I do appreciate you putting it all together. It was very interesting to see for sure, and I was starting to realize I was probably incorrect about CT even before seeing any of the data. There's just nothing between NY and PA to make up for the massive volumes of I-95 and the Merritt. Now, freight volumes could be another story (no more projections from me though).

vdeane

Quote from: webny99 on December 23, 2024, 03:27:55 PMUnless you count I-86 but not I-684. That may seem inconsistent at first glance, but they are majorly differentiated by the fact that I-86 has an exit (plus another pair of ramps) that's in PA. That means traffic has an opportunity to enter PA via I-86, take Exit 60, and not return to NY at all. That's a significant chunk of true cross-state traffic that's actually crossing the state line for good via I-86. Meanwhile, I-684 traffic does not have that same opportunity. It's entirely NY traffic that just happens to clip the corner of CT, and any of that traffic that's truly crossing the state line would already be accounted for at one of the other crossings.

In short: There's no way I-684 should count, but there's a strong case for I-86 to count because of Exit 60.
Yeah, that's why I have two numbers for US 220.  When I was including the two I-86 counts and the count of former US 220 to former NY 17, I'd throw out the count of US 220 south of exit 60, and vice-versa.

CT without I-684 but including NY 120A is 400,157 (glad I still have the Excel file I used for this).  If we exclude that NY 25 count as well (not sure how much of that is going to the ferry), it's 397,084.  So doing it that way would edge PA closer to CT than VT... but only by ~20,000.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

thspfc

Quote from: Rothman on December 22, 2024, 10:12:08 AM*looks forward to mostly anecdotes and gut feelings*
Would you ever expect anything else from the wonderful internet?

index

Without even looking at any numbers, NC is pretty straightforward:

  • South Carolina
  • Virginia
  • Tennessee
  • Georgia

pderocco

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 22, 2024, 11:07:56 AMI'd imagine Bodie Road has a lofty AADT of maybe 2-5 during the summer.  I'd speculate that I'd the least used state line crossing into California.
For the past couple years, the least used state line crossing would be Scotty's Castle Rd in Death Valley to NV-267, with a great big round 0.

That's why my California clinches are stuck at 99.97%.

Rothman

Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

mgk920

Quote from: paulthemapguy on December 23, 2024, 12:42:40 PMI was struggling a bit on this question for Illinois, because freight traffic and tourist traffic are separate considerations. It brought up the interesting question of how answers to this proposition might differ based on freight volume versus passenger volume, or tourist volume.  The IL/WI border would dominate for tourist traffic.

I would guess:
1. Indiana.  Between the I-80/94, I-90, and I-70 border crossings, that border is bound to have a ton of traffic coming to/from the east.  Everything coming out of Illinois bound for the east coast, or for Michigan, has to go through Indiana first, with the very minor exception of those using I-24 through Kentucky.
2. Wisconsin. Tons of tourist traffic going north, plus everything going west by way of I-90 and I-94. Chicago has by far the strongest pull in terms of trip generation. So statistically, if almost all Illinois trips are starting or ending in Chicagoland, almost all out-of-state trips will involve either Indiana or Wisconsin.
3 and 4 are tricky. 3 will probably be Missouri just because of the volume of trips in the Metro-East that will involve a crossing of the Mississippi River. But I-80's crossing into and out of Iowa is a very highly-traveled freight connection. Look at all that freight going east-west through the Quad Cities and Burlington! I'll put Iowa at number 4 for now, but I will happily stand corrected if it comes to that.

[snippage]

Kentucky obviously brings up the rear at #5.

And if Mr. Roth has the time to perform some consummate painstaking empirical research on this, he can do it himself.

For Illinois, #1 would be I-80/94 to Indiana, #2 would be I-41/94 to Wisconsin and #3 would be I-39/90 to Wisconsin, right?  Would I-55 to Missouri be #4?

Mike

GaryV

Quote from: paulthemapguy on December 23, 2024, 12:42:40 PMKentucky obviously brings up the rear at #5.


Followed by Michigan at #6 (water border only, but I imagine some boats cross it)

formulanone

Alabama, going by my anecdotal estimates:

1. Georgia; especially routes leading to Atlanta metro area.

2. Mississippi; basing this by freight numbers and overall border length.

3. Tennessee; will increase during holiday travel, based on out-of-state plates. Would overtake to #2 during Spring Break and Memorial Day weekend.

4. Florida; save I-10, all other routes go through lesser-populated regions of its state. You definitely wouldn't think you're headed into the third most-populous US state if traveling from Alabama.

texaskdog

Texas I would guess: LA, Mexico, OK, AK, NM though not sure where Mexico would actually fall.

MN is ND really above IA??

TheHighwayMan3561

For MN I can't imagine it's anything other than I-94 at the St. Croix and its 73,000.
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thspfc

Quote from: TheHighwayMan3561 on December 24, 2024, 03:31:56 PMFor MN I can't imagine it's anything other than I-94 at the St. Croix and its 73,000.
I-94 at the ND border is only a few thousand behind at 71k according to MNDOT - though MNDOT's map does not have a count for I-94 east of MN-95. WISDOT's count was 82k at the bridge.

It's interesting that the top two crossings for both WI and MN are I-94.

Quote from: mgk920 on December 24, 2024, 12:56:01 PMFor Illinois, #1 would be I-80/94 to Indiana, #2 would be I-41/94 to Wisconsin and #3 would be I-39/90 to Wisconsin, right?  Would I-55 to Missouri be #4?

Mike
https://www.gettingaroundillinois.com/Traffic%20Counts/index.html
1. I-80/94 IN
2. I-55/64 MO
3. I-94 WI
4. I-74 IA

Over 200k on the Borman is mind blowing. I would be interested to see the top 10 busiest crossings in the US. Also unique that IL's top 4 are 4 different other states.

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: texaskdog on December 24, 2024, 03:05:57 PMTexas I would guess: LA, Mexico, OK, AK, NM though not sure where Mexico would actually fall.

MN is ND really above IA??
Mexico has separate states just like Canada has provinces.
My username has been outdated since August 2023 but I'm too lazy to change it

webny99

Quote from: thspfc on December 24, 2024, 04:54:33 PMOver 200k on the Borman is mind blowing. I would be interested to see the top 10 busiest crossings in the US. Also unique that IL's top 4 are 4 different other states.

The GWB, which has 258,440 per vdeane's data shared upthread, is very likely #1.

I-95 NY/CT (128,300) and the Lincoln Tunnel (108,112) are both likely in the top 10 also.

Crown Victoria

For the great Commonwealth of Pennsylvania...my initial guesses were that New Jersey would be #1 (obviously), and that West Virginia would be #6, but I wasn't really sure how the middle four would stack up. Maryland seemed like a good pick for #2, but was there enough traffic for Delaware to beat out New York and Ohio?

My findings, based on the 2022 Statewide AADT Map, using the closest data point for border crossing routes:

1. New Jersey    664,300
2. Maryland       253,600
3. Delaware       190,900
4. New York       156,300
5. Ohio              143,450
6. West Virginia 119,400

The busiest individual border crossings are:

1. I-76 Walt Whitman Bridge 108,000
2. I-676 Ben Franklin Bridge 98,000
3. I-95 DE line 96,000
4. I-78 NJ line 64,000

mgk920

Quote from: thspfc on December 24, 2024, 04:54:33 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan3561 on December 24, 2024, 03:31:56 PMFor MN I can't imagine it's anything other than I-94 at the St. Croix and its 73,000.
I-94 at the ND border is only a few thousand behind at 71k according to MNDOT - though MNDOT's map does not have a count for I-94 east of MN-95. WISDOT's count was 82k at the bridge.

It's interesting that the top two crossings for both WI and MN are I-94.

Quote from: mgk920 on December 24, 2024, 12:56:01 PMFor Illinois, #1 would be I-80/94 to Indiana, #2 would be I-41/94 to Wisconsin and #3 would be I-39/90 to Wisconsin, right?  Would I-55 to Missouri be #4?

Mike
https://www.gettingaroundillinois.com/Traffic%20Counts/index.html
1. I-80/94 IN
2. I-55/64 MO
3. I-94 WI
4. I-74 IA

Over 200k on the Borman is mind blowing. I would be interested to see the top 10 busiest crossings in the US. Also unique that IL's top 4 are 4 different other states.

The Borman is also one of the busiest commercial truck routes in the world.

Mike

mgk920

Quote from: thspfc on December 24, 2024, 04:54:33 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan3561 on December 24, 2024, 03:31:56 PMFor MN I can't imagine it's anything other than I-94 at the St. Croix and its 73,000.
I-94 at the ND border is only a few thousand behind at 71k according to MNDOT - though MNDOT's map does not have a count for I-94 east of MN-95. WISDOT's count was 82k at the bridge.



I-94 at the MN/ND state line in the major crossing between two cities in a metro area.  It makes sense to me.

Mike

webny99

Quote from: mgk920 on December 25, 2024, 12:00:59 PM
Quote from: thspfc on December 24, 2024, 04:54:33 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan3561 on December 24, 2024, 03:31:56 PMFor MN I can't imagine it's anything other than I-94 at the St. Croix and its 73,000.
I-94 at the ND border is only a few thousand behind at 71k according to MNDOT - though MNDOT's map does not have a count for I-94 east of MN-95. WISDOT's count was 82k at the bridge.



I-94 at the MN/ND state line in the major crossing between two cities in a metro area.  It makes sense to me.

Mike

I-94 at the MN/WI line is a major crossing between a much bigger metro and some of its suburbs and exurbs, as well as being a primary route from said metro to the rest of the country. An ~11k gap between MN/ND and MN/WI (in favor of the latter) makes sense to me.



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