Indiana Notes

[Crash_It]

Didn't see this mentioned earlier, but IN 8 is closed indefinitely between US 421 and IN 39.  Flooding severely damaged the road.  All INDOT is saying now is that work should begin later this summer.

Saw this on INDOT Northwest's Facebook page just a few days ago. They have to test the roadbed constantly to check the extent of the damage. Pipe and drainage work may also be necessary.

In other news, I took a drive down I-65 to look at expansion work progress between US 30 and Indiana 2, largely because the cameras throughout the NW Indiana section of Trafficwise are down. A few notes:

There's definitely more focus on the Indiana 2 to US 231 stretch, and there's a lot of progress in that area. Right up to the southbound weigh station (which is oddly open during construction), the future inside shoulder, left lane, and permanent guardrails are in place. The median section between that weigh station and south of Indiana 2 is currently being excavated for similar work. Looks like more lane shifts will be in place within the coming weeks.

A new gantry is in place on I-65 southbound near the Indiana 2 exit. It's covered up, but it's obvious the sign says "LEFT LANE ENDS 1 MILE"  and will be uncovered when substantial work is finished.

Crews have finished pouring the decks for the bridges over US 231, Wurtz Ditch, and Indiana 2. The Wurtz Ditch bridge will have a concrete median included (and is installed); it's not yet known if the US 231 and Indiana 2 bridges will similarly be done or will have a small gap between the new decks.

As for the stretch between US 30 and US 231, it looks like most of the focus will be on the 109th Avenue bridge and the bridge just north of the interchange. It appears they're going to get the bridge resurfaced to the point where the future outside lane and outside shoulder are seamlessly built around the bridges.

Long story short...even if the cameras were online, they don't tell the full story of what's going on. They're pushing hard to get that work done in time for the end-of-October deadline.

And with all of that, it seems that they still don't have sense enough to obscure the rumble strips in the right lane that has shifted to the shoulder. It's a major PIA driving that stretch because of that and it's the only high speed way to Lowell. This is something that has been done in IL during road work and even in WI, I don't get how INDOT missed that concept.

[PurdueBill]

And with all of that, it seems that they still don't have sense enough to obscure the rumble strips in the right lane that has shifted to the shoulder. It's a major PIA driving that stretch because of that and it's the only high speed way to Lowell. This is something that has been done in IL during road work and even in WI, I don't get how INDOT missed that concept.

Definitely seems to be an INDOT thing.  Places on I-469 involve the same thing with the rumble strip, although fortunately it is mostly the concrete surface type which makes more short bursts of lighter rumbles than the continuous and deeper asphalt rumble strip, which I have also seen them leave for people to drive on and over.  It would be one thing in a very short term arrangement but doesn't seem appropriate for something that will stay for months.

[paulthemapguy]

And with all of that, it seems that they still don't have sense enough to obscure the rumble strips in the right lane that has shifted to the shoulder. It's a major PIA driving that stretch because of that and it's the only high speed way to Lowell. This is something that has been done in IL during road work and even in WI, I don't get how INDOT missed that concept.

This was a grievance of mine during the I-65 reconstruction around Lafayette that reached completion in the past year.

[nwi_navigator_1181]

And with all of that, it seems that they still don't have sense enough to obscure the rumble strips in the right lane that has shifted to the shoulder. It's a major PIA driving that stretch because of that and it's the only high speed way to Lowell. This is something that has been done in IL during road work and even in WI, I don't get how INDOT missed that concept.

This was a grievance of mine during the I-65 reconstruction around Lafayette that reached completion in the past year.

Funny you guys say this; I took another drive through most of the construction zone today to see if any progress has been made in the last month...and there's a lot of progress. The one that stuck out the most (and pertains to this convo) is that traffic has been shifted onto the new pavement from just south of the US 231 overpass to the weigh station near Indiana 2 (which has now been closed and occupied by construction vehicles). While hitting the rumble strips will be an issue from south of the weigh station to the south end of the project limits, a lot of that has been allayed.

The above section has been almost completely carved out in the median. Piping installation should begin soon, which will pave the way (pun not intended) for asphalt layering in the not-too-distant future. There's definitely much more focus on the US 231 to Indiana 2 stretch; I think the reason is that it will take less time to lay down one lane of concrete and resurface the existing pavement than carving the median, installing proper drainage, laying down new asphalt, and installing a median guardrail.

North of US 231, there are stacks of dowel bars in place to prepare for concrete installation, but there are still a few sections of shoulder that needs to be dug up before concrete shoulder installation can begin in earnest.

On a related note, all I-65 traffic will be shifted onto the new southbound structure of the Kankakee River bridge so that crews can replace the northbound structure.

Other quick notes:
The stretch of Indiana 149 between US 20 and US 6, which has been closed off so crews can repair the Toll Road bridge over the highway, is scheduled to reopen by June 23.

This week (if it hasn't started already), US 20 will be down to one lane in each direction in the Portage area so crews can repair the CSX bridge. For reference, that's between Indiana 51 and Indiana 249. Work is expected to last until November.

[silverback1065]

I-65 will be closed completely for 35 days starting july 1st for bridge repair, between 465 on the west side down to Delaware st downtown.  this isn't related to the north split project.

[NWI_Irish96]

Funny you guys say this; I took another drive through most of the construction zone today to see if any progress has been made in the last month...and there's a lot of progress. The one that stuck out the most (and pertains to this convo) is that traffic has been shifted onto the new pavement from just south of the US 231 overpass to the weigh station near Indiana 2 (which has now been closed and occupied by construction vehicles). While hitting the rumble strips will be an issue from south of the weigh station to the south end of the project limits, a lot of that has been allayed.

The above section has been almost completely carved out in the median. Piping installation should begin soon, which will pave the way (pun not intended) for asphalt layering in the not-too-distant future. There's definitely much more focus on the US 231 to Indiana 2 stretch; I think the reason is that it will take less time to lay down one lane of concrete and resurface the existing pavement than carving the median, installing proper drainage, laying down new asphalt, and installing a median guardrail.

North of US 231, there are stacks of dowel bars in place to prepare for concrete installation, but there are still a few sections of shoulder that needs to be dug up before concrete shoulder installation can begin in earnest.

On a related note, all I-65 traffic will be shifted onto the new southbound structure of the Kankakee River bridge so that crews can replace the northbound structure.

Other quick notes:
The stretch of Indiana 149 between US 20 and US 6, which has been closed off so crews can repair the Toll Road bridge over the highway, is scheduled to reopen by June 23.

This week (if it hasn't started already), US 20 will be down to one lane in each direction in the Portage area so crews can repair the CSX bridge. For reference, that's between Indiana 51 and Indiana 249. Work is expected to last until November.

One more NWI note: Calumet Avenue (US 41) between Michigan and Sibley streets in Hammond is closed until further notice after a site inspection Thursday revealed a massive cavity beneath the roadway tied to INDOT's reconstruction work.  No word as to whether or not INDOT has a dentist on staff.

[silverback1065]

New projects for the Lloyd in Evansville
http://www.tristatehomepage.com/news/local-news/indot-considering-changes-to-lloyd-expressway-vanderburgh-co-commissioner-says/1234191372

[Life in Paradise]

New projects for the Lloyd in Evansville
http://www.tristatehomepage.com/news/local-news/indot-considering-changes-to-lloyd-expressway-vanderburgh-co-commissioner-says/1234191372

I am all for the Vann Avenue and Grimm Road options.  That would get rid of one traffic light, and cause another one not to be installed (Grimm), even after they had placed the traffic light poles a few years ago.  I really wish instead of the displaced left turn lanes, they would use that money as a down payment towards interchanges.  (How about I-569 from I-69 to the west side of Evansville??)

[silverback1065]

they should have just had interchanges

[jnewkirk77]

INDOT doesn't seem to know what to do with the Lloyd. There's more traffic now than I think anyone ever believed it would have to handle, and leaving it as-is doesn't seem like a viable option.  I'm solidly with the group that says it needs interchanges, not more lights.

[nwi_navigator_1181]

One more NWI note: Calumet Avenue (US 41) between Michigan and Sibley streets in Hammond is closed until further notice after a site inspection Thursday revealed a massive cavity beneath the roadway tied to INDOT's reconstruction work.  No word as to whether or not INDOT has a dentist on staff.

US 41 can't seem to catch a break. Between the work in Highland and this closure, it's almost better to find a viable route (either US 24 or US 52) to connect to I-57 and get to Chicago that way at this point.

Also, it has been announced that the Cline Avenue bridge (Indiana 912), which will be shuttered for more than a decade, will be opened to traffic in January 2020. Crews are building new piers and have been receiving transports for beams and deck material. The final design will support two lanes in each direction and will carry tolls from $2 to $2.25. In the wake of the Florida walkway collapse earlier this year (from the same design team), an independent construction team will review the work upon completion to determine if the bridge is deemed safe for travel before opening to traffic.

This upcoming week (likely starting Monday), I-65 in Lake County will see movements in current construction zones. As I mentioned upthread, full blown bridge replacement work will be underway at the bridges over the CSX railroad and Central Avenue, just north of the I-80/94 interchange. Crews have built and striped temporary crossovers inside the median to facilitate traffic. All traffic (one lane in each direction) will share the northbound bridge while the southbound bridge is replaced, then the configuration will switch when the northbound bridge is up for replacement. Only traffic from the Toll Road has access to I-65 southbound currently; it appears they will allow traffic from US 12/20 and 15th Avenue to enter once all switchovers are completed (indicated by the "Speed Limit 45 ahead"  signs laying on their sides by the 15th Avenue ramp).

Further south, I was told by a worker on INDOT's Facebook page that concrete paving of the future outer shoulder between US 30 and US 231 begins Monday, weather permitting. I'm curious to see how that will tie into the 109th Avenue interchange...

[silverback1065]

I asked INDOT why not do interchanges on the Lloyd, and this is their response to me:

Thank you for contacting the Indiana Department of Transportation regarding the Lloyd Expressway. INDOT typically considers interchanges as a part of projects of this nature. However, we must also consider other options using innovative techniques and creative engineering that will improve the safety and mobility of the Lloyd expressway corridor. Interchanges can improve safety and mobility but they come at a high cost ($15-25 million each) to taxpayers and typically displace businesses and residential areas. Additionally choosing interchange projects means INDOT must acquire large amounts of property that will impact businesses and/or possibly residential areas which drives up the cost of the projects, and causes families and businesses from their homes and properties. This is something INDOT actively tries to avoid. The point of considering these type treatments is that they can be easily changed in the future if they no longer operate at an acceptable level of service. Treatments of this type solve the challenges INDOT is trying to fix and are effective investments for taxpayers for multiple years. They also allow INDOT to focus on pavement and bridge conditions in order to maintain and fortify the integrity of those assets while improving the traveling public's experience on Indiana's roadways. The presentation of the consultant's proposed improvements are only concepts at this point in time. INDOT has not posted the presentation on its website because no decisions have been made regarding the proposals. Once decisions have been made how to approach the corridor, the projects will be scored and go through a deliberation process. This process can take five to 10 years to accomplish. INDOT appreciates your questions and feedback.

[silverback1065]

indot presentation of the preferred alternative for the 69/465 interchange:

https://www.in.gov/indot/files/CAC_Meeting_Presentation_ClearPath465_5.9.18.pdf

[tdindy88]

While that new setup looks a whole lot better than what is currently there, am I seeing it right that traffic continuing on to Binford Blvd from SB I-69 has to bypass the whole interchange just to stop at a traffic signal before turning onto to present-day Binford to continue south?

[silverback1065]

While that new setup looks a whole lot better than what is currently there, am I seeing it right that traffic continuing on to Binford Blvd from SB I-69 has to bypass the whole interchange just to stop at a traffic signal before turning onto to present-day Binford to continue south?

yes, and the engineer firm said that the reason behind this is to address issues with people wanting to make a left turn at 75th street not having the time to do so with the current setup, so they added the light to allow this movement to be easier. 

[SSR_317]

While that new setup looks a whole lot better than what is currently there, am I seeing it right that traffic continuing on to Binford Blvd from SB I-69 has to bypass the whole interchange just to stop at a traffic signal before turning onto to present-day Binford to continue south?

yes, and the engineer firm said that the reason behind this is to address issues with people wanting to make a left turn at 75th street not having the time to do so with the current setup, so they added the light to allow this movement to be easier.

This is the exact same complaint I had last Summer at the INDOT public meeting. It's not that they don't have "time", it's that they don't have sufficient "space" to do so safely. All those snooty Heritage "Christian" School parents seem to feel that both lanes of SB Binford through traffic should yield to THEM just so they can exit I-465 then immediately turn east on 71st. I say let THEM pay for their own special dedicated ramp from the Interstate to the school themselves! In my opinion, all SB left turns should be PROHIBITED at this intersection.

To safely accommodate that EB-SB-EB movement, a Michigan-left could be easily installed in the median well south of the intersection, or better yet, on 75th Street to the west of the intersection (which would require no weaving on Binford). That IMHO is a MUCH better solution than adding yet another traffic signal to an already congested major arterial. I would speculate that particular engineering firm may be getting a kickback from traffic signal manufacturers (who may be losing tons of money in nearby Hamilton County, what with roundabouts replacing signals in droves). Slapping a signal on Binford for that current free-flow ramp is a LAZY "solution" to this problem which will also not be energy efficient.

BTW, the City of Indianapolis really needs to add a 3rd travel lane on Binford between I-465 and 46th Street, ASAP! But city-wide chuckhole repair from this Winter & Spring will likely take budgetary precedence (as it should) for IndyDOT.

[edwaleni]

While that new setup looks a whole lot better than what is currently there, am I seeing it right that traffic continuing on to Binford Blvd from SB I-69 has to bypass the whole interchange just to stop at a traffic signal before turning onto to present-day Binford to continue south?

yes, and the engineer firm said that the reason behind this is to address issues with people wanting to make a left turn at 75th street not having the time to do so with the current setup, so they added the light to allow this movement to be easier.

This is the exact same complaint I had last Summer at the INDOT public meeting. It's not that they don't have "time", it's that they don't have sufficient "space" to do so safely. All those snooty Heritage "Christian" School parents seem to feel that both lanes of SB Binford through traffic should yield to THEM just so they can exit I-465 then immediately turn east on 71st. I say let THEM pay for their own special dedicated ramp from the Interstate to the school themselves! In my opinion, all SB left turns should be PROHIBITED at this intersection.

To safely accommodate that EB-SB-EB movement, a Michigan-left could be easily installed in the median well south of the intersection, or better yet, on 75th Street to the west of the intersection (which would require no weaving on Binford). That IMHO is a MUCH better solution than adding yet another traffic signal to an already congested major arterial. I would speculate that particular engineering firm may be getting a kickback from traffic signal manufacturers (who may be losing tons of money in nearby Hamilton County, what with roundabouts replacing signals in droves). Slapping a signal on Binford for that current free-flow ramp is a LAZY "solution" to this problem which will also not be energy efficient.

BTW, the City of Indianapolis really needs to add a 3rd travel lane on Binford between I-465 and 46th Street, ASAP! But city-wide chuckhole repair from this Winter & Spring will likely take budgetary precedence (as it should) for IndyDOT.

I dont think you have your facts right or a good reason to "quote" the schools purpose. Heritage has a planned circular 1 way drive using 75th Street. They split the traffic to Kittrey for the left turn back to 75th for those going west.

They (the school) discourages the wholesale use of Aldgate and Fulham for special events because they are residential streets.

Instead of consuming yet more land, perhaps INDOT should look at doing an urban style flyover for Binford for 75th and 71st.

Faulting a schools educational purpose has absolutely nothing to do with highway planning.

[silverback1065]

While that new setup looks a whole lot better than what is currently there, am I seeing it right that traffic continuing on to Binford Blvd from SB I-69 has to bypass the whole interchange just to stop at a traffic signal before turning onto to present-day Binford to continue south?

yes, and the engineer firm said that the reason behind this is to address issues with people wanting to make a left turn at 75th street not having the time to do so with the current setup, so they added the light to allow this movement to be easier.

This is the exact same complaint I had last Summer at the INDOT public meeting. It's not that they don't have "time", it's that they don't have sufficient "space" to do so safely. All those snooty Heritage "Christian" School parents seem to feel that both lanes of SB Binford through traffic should yield to THEM just so they can exit I-465 then immediately turn east on 71st. I say let THEM pay for their own special dedicated ramp from the Interstate to the school themselves! In my opinion, all SB left turns should be PROHIBITED at this intersection.

To safely accommodate that EB-SB-EB movement, a Michigan-left could be easily installed in the median well south of the intersection, or better yet, on 75th Street to the west of the intersection (which would require no weaving on Binford). That IMHO is a MUCH better solution than adding yet another traffic signal to an already congested major arterial. I would speculate that particular engineering firm may be getting a kickback from traffic signal manufacturers (who may be losing tons of money in nearby Hamilton County, what with roundabouts replacing signals in droves). Slapping a signal on Binford for that current free-flow ramp is a LAZY "solution" to this problem which will also not be energy efficient.

BTW, the City of Indianapolis really needs to add a 3rd travel lane on Binford between I-465 and 46th Street, ASAP! But city-wide chuckhole repair from this Winter & Spring will likely take budgetary precedence (as it should) for IndyDOT.

the city of potholeville has no money to do anything.  they can't even restripe the roads the patch.  potholeville is broke af

[SSR_317]

While that new setup looks a whole lot better than what is currently there, am I seeing it right that traffic continuing on to Binford Blvd from SB I-69 has to bypass the whole interchange just to stop at a traffic signal before turning onto to present-day Binford to continue south?

yes, and the engineer firm said that the reason behind this is to address issues with people wanting to make a left turn at 75th street not having the time to do so with the current setup, so they added the light to allow this movement to be easier.

This is the exact same complaint I had last Summer at the INDOT public meeting. It's not that they don't have "time", it's that they don't have sufficient "space" to do so safely. All those snooty Heritage "Christian" School parents seem to feel that both lanes of SB Binford through traffic should yield to THEM just so they can exit I-465 then immediately turn east on 71st. I say let THEM pay for their own special dedicated ramp from the Interstate to the school themselves! In my opinion, all SB left turns should be PROHIBITED at this intersection.

To safely accommodate that EB-SB-EB movement, a Michigan-left could be easily installed in the median well south of the intersection, or better yet, on 75th Street to the west of the intersection (which would require no weaving on Binford). That IMHO is a MUCH better solution than adding yet another traffic signal to an already congested major arterial. I would speculate that particular engineering firm may be getting a kickback from traffic signal manufacturers (who may be losing tons of money in nearby Hamilton County, what with roundabouts replacing signals in droves). Slapping a signal on Binford for that current free-flow ramp is a LAZY "solution" to this problem which will also not be energy efficient.

BTW, the City of Indianapolis really needs to add a 3rd travel lane on Binford between I-465 and 46th Street, ASAP! But city-wide chuckhole repair from this Winter & Spring will likely take budgetary precedence (as it should) for IndyDOT.

I dont think you have your facts right or a good reason to "quote" the schools purpose. Heritage has a planned circular 1 way drive using 75th Street. They split the traffic to Kittrey for the left turn back to 75th for those going west.

They (the school) discourages the wholesale use of Aldgate and Fulham for special events because they are residential streets.

Instead of consuming yet more land, perhaps INDOT should look at doing an urban style flyover for Binford for 75th and 71st.

Faulting a schools educational purpose has absolutely nothing to do with highway planning.

You are correct in that my editorial comment about the school's purpose is not germane to our discussion, but its existence as a major traffic generator is. I am not talking about this private school's driveways, nor am I talking about their relationship with 75th Street. I am talking about the attitude of many the drivers who exit EB I-465 to SB Binford then immediately dash across 2 lanes of thru traffic to get to the left turn lanes for EB 75th. Most of these folks are heading to the school, though some may be heading to other destinations. That is the safety situation the engineers are trying to solve (in my opinion, in the laziest & cheapest way possible) by installing yet another unnecessary stoplight. This signal will further hinder the smooth flow of traffic from I-69 onto Binford, even though INDOT claims it will be synchronized with the one at 75th itself. We'll see how long they actually stay in sync, once installed.

As for south of there, INDOT's jurisdiction has ended at 75th ever since Binford was turned over to the City of Indianapolis many years ago now. So it would be IndyDOT, not INDOT, that would have to deal with any potential grade separation or other changes at 71st & Binford or further south. I'm sure these agencies would (and will) work together at 75th, but anything beyond that would be up to a city which (unfortunately) has many other higher-priority projects & problems to address.

[ysuindy]

I noticed this morning all lanes appear to be open on southbound I-69 at exit 205 (116th Street).

I get on from 37 south, but all three lanes to my left are open.  Two of the lanes have had a final layer of asphalt applied and I imagine the third lane will be paved shortly.

The added lane between 116th and 106th had the barrels pushed back a week or two ago.

[silverback1065]

I noticed this morning all lanes appear to be open on southbound I-69 at exit 205 (116th Street).

I get on from 37 south, but all three lanes to my left are open.  Two of the lanes have had a final layer of asphalt applied and I imagine the third lane will be paved shortly.

The added lane between 116th and 106th had the barrels pushed back a week or two ago.

I wish 69 was concrete from 465 to campus pkwy

[NWI_Irish96]

The new alignment of US 33 in Goshen is now open.  Drove it yesterday while visiting family for the 4th.  The new section of road contains an overpass over the 9th street railroad tracks, thus eliminating an at-grade crossing from the route.  The new alignment re-routes the section previously routed along 3rd and Madison Streets. 

[silverback1065]

The new alignment of US 33 in Goshen is now open.  Drove it yesterday while visiting family for the 4th.  The new section of road contains an overpass over the 9th street railroad tracks, thus eliminating an at-grade crossing from the route.  The new alignment re-routes the section previously routed along 3rd and Madison Streets.

Did they fuck up the routing of SR 15 in the area?

Does anyone know if SR 252 still exists between I-65 and SR 9?  I heard that after the construction on that stretch was finished, it would be decommissioned. 

[NWI_Irish96]

The new alignment of US 33 in Goshen is now open.  Drove it yesterday while visiting family for the 4th.  The new section of road contains an overpass over the 9th street railroad tracks, thus eliminating an at-grade crossing from the route.  The new alignment re-routes the section previously routed along 3rd and Madison Streets.

Did they fuck up the routing of SR 15 in the area?

Does anyone know if SR 252 still exists between I-65 and SR 9?  I heard that after the construction on that stretch was finished, it would be decommissioned. 

Several years ago, Goshen got approval to re-route 15 and 33 through downtown from Pike/Main to 3rd/Madison so they could close off Main for city events/festivals without having to get INDOT's permission for every event.  It's not really a significant change for traffic.

[silverback1065]

The new alignment of US 33 in Goshen is now open.  Drove it yesterday while visiting family for the 4th.  The new section of road contains an overpass over the 9th street railroad tracks, thus eliminating an at-grade crossing from the route.  The new alignment re-routes the section previously routed along 3rd and Madison Streets.

Did they fuck up the routing of SR 15 in the area?

Does anyone know if SR 252 still exists between I-65 and SR 9?  I heard that after the construction on that stretch was finished, it would be decommissioned. 

Several years ago, Goshen got approval to re-route 15 and 33 through downtown from Pike/Main to 3rd/Madison so they could close off Main for city events/festivals without having to get INDOT's permission for every event.  It's not really a significant change for traffic.

So this bypass carries both 15 and 33 then? (15 is signed on the bypass?)