Around the Kansas City metro, where I live, I have seen numerous signalized intersections where the cross-street only goes left, and while the left lane has a standard left-turn signal, the right lanes have this weird one-aspect signal that is simply a perpetual green arrow. Here they are, with Street View links:
Metcalf Avenue southbound at Blue Valley Parkway in Overland Park - https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9148542,-94.6688298,3a,37.5y,185.79h,89.21t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqbAC7rh3FLrwD-8xa5Uo3g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
US 56 westbound at Old 56 Highway on the east side of Gardner, near New Century Air Center - https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8132529,-94.9036987,3a,37.5y,220.79h,90.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWsfIh7IdhAxr18Ovxy07UQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
7th Street northbound at the westbound I-70 on-ramp in KCK - https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0953935,-94.6260578,3a,75y,2h,102.44t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLM6dTBA3aFYWkvdFBIJ_ZA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
US 24/40 (State Avenue) westbound at the southbound K-7 on-ramp in Bonner Springs - https://www.google.com/maps/@39.116132,-94.8963941,3a,37.5y,269.06h,96.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sTvai9to8O_YP29YkFJU30g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Of note, all four of these signals are on the Kansas side of the metro. Is this a Kansas thing in particular? Also, where else throughout the country have you seen such installations? I'm sure there must be at least a few of them out there somewhere.
I'm pretty sure I've saw those around Greensboro, I just can't remember where.
That type of setup is extremely common in Utah with green straight arrows. Here (https://goo.gl/maps/qF9CEn7RWu3ogTnv5) are (https://goo.gl/maps/fPtxoGaRZY6z1oi78) just (https://goo.gl/maps/8uiG3oHZyUzXbR4KA) a (https://goo.gl/maps/6CsafND7wTDYsCQT8) few (https://goo.gl/maps/17VbxfBzmFZM1TgU7) examples (https://goo.gl/maps/Tc789rvBNSL8tZL46) from across the state.
I know there is a one-aspect green ball somewhere in the Atlanta metro area, but I cannot for the life of me remember where it is.
Quote from: KCRoadFan on February 13, 2022, 11:45:37 PM
Of note, all four of these signals are on the Kansas side of the metro. Is this a Kansas thing in particular? Also, where else throughout the country have you seen such installations? I'm sure there must be at least a few of them out there somewhere.
Not sure about the Missouri side of the KC metro, but the Missouri side of the St Louis metro have no shortage of them:
- MO 141 NB to I-64 WB on-ramp (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.6441936,-90.5095546,3a,44.4y,0.55h,94.81t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sK0lpaHmAjLMfXqeL_QgiZQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DK0lpaHmAjLMfXqeL_QgiZQ%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D213.15721%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192)
- Chesterfield Pkwy to I-64 EB on-ramp (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.6504662,-90.5504921,3a,41.2y,210.73h,89.13t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7VgNpIPQerJW5yrNsiGKKA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
- I-64 EB to MO K off-ramp (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.7125896,-90.7042175,3a,46.7y,72.38h,90.01t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sbGyi4_ymFmoxFvULrdZXTw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
- Murdoch Ave to I-44 WB on-ramp (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.5917411,-90.335554,3a,75y,312.12h,91.08t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shJ1-Q8cDubfI0ydw5JQFxw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
- Former: Delmar Blvd to I-170 NB on-ramp. Removed when a pedestrian crossing was added. (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.6612723,-90.3571055,3a,49y,-3.96h,89.65t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sOfY-n19dAXKdG8CoKs2DDA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
- Former: Jefferson Ave to I-64 WB on-ramp. Removed when the other half of the interchange was constructed. (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.6276208,-90.2175659,3a,75y,17.08h,88.5t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ssXW6CSwS_pLa8AzOMmcEVA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
So these are just seagull intersections?
There's a few around the Seattle area, like this example on Broadway in Everett:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2a/Seagull_intersection_CGTL_on_Broadway_in_Everett%2C_Washington_%28flickr18779519629%29.jpg/1280px-Seagull_intersection_CGTL_on_Broadway_in_Everett%2C_Washington_%28flickr18779519629%29.jpg)
Eternal green light thread: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=17664.0
Here's a two-for-one–a flashing yellow arrow and two "eternal greens" on the same mast arm. (Apologies to Max Rockatansky for a GSV link, but I've never bothered to take a picture there both because the light is always green when I go through and because the car's built-in Bluetooth locks out my phone's touchscreen unless I remember to unlock it in advance, which I never do through there.)
Commerce Street at I-95 in Springfield, Virginia. (https://goo.gl/maps/8vDZVFyWZzRSYmbv5)
We have one not too far from where I live that is like that.
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.4373033,-84.0440129,3a,44.1y,284.78h,101.88t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYZi-uWdOitF_S-ubTFHslw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
The reason this intersection is designed the way it is is because M-47 north of M-58 and all of M-58 used to be US-10 before the freeway between Midland and Bay City was built. US-10 would use the curve there to change from Midland Road to State Street and it was just left there when US-10 was moved to the freeway. M-47 used to go east on US-10 to where M-84 is at and then went north on Bay Street to Bay City, M-84 took over some of old M-47. The only stretch of M-47 that is original to the highway is between M-46 and M-58.
Quote from: Big John on February 14, 2022, 08:42:24 AM
Eternal green light thread: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=17664.0
Thanks.
Anyway, I've only been a member since June 2020, so I wasn't expecting to have known that there was a thread on the topic from 2016. Anyway, do you believe the threads should be merged?
Ohio uses them sometimes and I wish I could remember where there was once a sign depicting such a single-headed signal instead of a signal itself (i.e., a green arrow inside a black circle, with "continuous" printed underneath). As I recall, it's gone now....where-ever it was.
Edit: found one although it is not quite what I remembered (sign plus signal head); maybe I remembered wrong but this one got replaced with a more boring sign with a signal head that looks to not work as well. https://goo.gl/maps/fRM5imAYs4pEzhBV8
Ohio doesn't always get it right; the YIELD sign here was added around the time the signals were updated; it makes no sense to have YIELD and green arrow. Complaining to ODOT years ago yielded nothing. https://goo.gl/maps/QgFvTvWBiyc8zxtX8
My favorite is this one near the old Stapleton site in Denver, with DOWNWARD arrows instead of the correct upward ones.
(https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.18172-8/11080320_10104849828616508_1569671092197579705_o.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=19026a&_nc_ohc=Fjj7e8Pg_QEAX-fXpcM&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-2.xx&oh=00_AT9dyOlg-SaIpreTEWKiiMKYW5IQhiOCB0RNBaDapbCpDA&oe=6231A2D1)
It is tricky because there are some sites where replying to a thread with no replies for more than 30-90 days will get people mad (but this is generally not that kind of place). Then again, there have been thread necros of almost 10 years around here too.
Looking at that other thread prompted me to recall several intersections on US-1 near Melbourne, Florida, in which the two right lanes on northbound Route 1 had continuous greens (and warning signs advising of them). I haven't been there in several years because our visits to the area were to see my wife's sister in Viera, but she died of cancer two years ago and we thus don't have much reason to stop there anymore. It appears from GSV that they may have gotten rid of the continuous greens. I wonder whether there might have been a problem with accidents because the continuous-green design relied on drivers making left turns onto Route 1 to turn into the correct lane, which in my observation elsewhere is not something you should expect anyone to do.
This post I made in another thread has older GSV links showing what those intersections used to look like, along with the advance signage. (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=16637.msg2099649#msg2099649) Easier just to link my old post because the GSV links there use the old imagery.
The one I mentioned in the other thread, 14 Mile Rd at I-75, is no longer there. It's been converted into a DDI.
One of my favorites in L.A. It help maintain expressway status in the southbound direction along the La Cienega "freeway" in Ladera Heights (on the way to LAX for many coming from Beverly Hills and West Hollywood)
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.9981747,-118.369778,3a,37.5y,149.9h,87.66t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1smddmm13JmS2x00g3FOMO5w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
In my youth, I remember two of these signal faces here on the mast arm, and the left turn arrow was not on the mast arm. It appears that about 10 years ago, this perpetual green used a standard RYG signal, but only green lit up. This can be seen on the older GSV images. The current one seems overdone with too many signal aspects (four!) for what is not really a signal, since it is always green.
The vast majority of these one-aspect greens seem to be green arrow, as opposed to green ball. They seem to frequently be joined with a RA-YA-GA protected left turns, but 1995hoo did find one that is connected with a FYA left turn signal. I don't believe any exist with doghouses, as it might be confusing if the doghouse never turns red.
A very unique signal appears in Vancouver at Kingsway and King Edward. A common Canadian permissive left turn signal is the 4 aspect in a line signal where the bottom signal is bimodal and can be either green arrow or yellow arrow. Imagine that signal and then chopping off the top two signals (for red ball and yellow ball aspects) and you get the following. For those who are color blind, the top aspect is indeed a perpetual green and the bottom aspect is an occasional green (or yellow) arrow for the protected turn.
https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2484992,-123.0721762,3a,75y,283.72h,85.46t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sAdAaggLyRDnHyA1nrTIk_w!2e0!5s20210201T000000!7i16384!8i8192
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 14, 2022, 10:18:28 AM
Looking at that other thread prompted me to recall several intersections on US-1 near Melbourne, Florida, in which the two right lanes on northbound Route 1 had continuous greens (and warning signs advising of them). I haven't been there in several years because our visits to the area were to see my wife's sister in Viera, but she died of cancer two years ago and we thus don't have much reason to stop there anymore. It appears from GSV that they may have gotten rid of the continuous greens. I wonder whether there might have been a problem with accidents because the continuous-green design relied on drivers making left turns onto Route 1 to turn into the correct lane, which in my observation elsewhere is not something you should expect anyone to do.
This post I made in another thread has older GSV links showing what those intersections used to look like, along with the advance signage. (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=16637.msg2099649#msg2099649) Easier just to link my old post because the GSV links there use the old imagery.
Separating the thru lanes with continuous green from those that might stop with an island (or at least plastic delineators) would have been better than just striping.
My favorite such setup is still kicking in El Paso over 20 years after I first saw it, with the same single 3M green arrow head for the continuous green.
https://goo.gl/maps/3cMpmA1mu6ndyedE8
Continuous green sign in Merritt Island, Florida:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51883678739_8732ec14d9_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2n3Mq6a)
It's been removed (Street View (https://www.google.com/maps/@28.3577126,-80.6246358,3a,64y,96.62h,87.24t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sxKbb1VhVjjvYp6OAwi2MqA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)) since this photo was taken in 2016.
Florida seems to have decided to remove those continuous green type intersections statewide, there are some I remember in Jacksonville from the early 2010s that are not that way anymore according to GSV.
Quote from: US 89 on February 13, 2022, 11:55:57 PM
I know there is a one-aspect green ball somewhere in the Atlanta metro area, but I cannot for the life of me remember where it is.
There are several in the Atlanta area, the typical use case is at a partial diamond interchange where there is sufficient left-turn demand onto the onramp for a signal, in which case the single-aspect green lights are mounted over the straight-thru lanes. Examples: Sidney Marcus at SR 400 (https://goo.gl/maps/BCSYDgfB3j9JyuKz8), Peachtree-Dunwoody at I-285, Glenridge Dr at I-285, etc.
The SR 141 (Peachtree Industrial) and I-285 interchange has them too (https://goo.gl/maps/J3gMNPhTQpGqJhaLA)
Quote from: mrsman on February 16, 2022, 08:32:51 PM
The vast majority of these one-aspect greens seem to be green arrow, as opposed to green ball. They seem to frequently be joined with a RA-YA-GA protected left turns, but 1995hoo did find one that is connected with a FYA left turn signal. I don't believe any exist with doghouses, as it might be confusing if the doghouse never turns red.
Here's a Georgia example with a 5-section signal (what would normally be a doghouse but this one is horizontal instead): https://goo.gl/maps/zKCapCSNgait6Ys1A I don't think the unused red (and unused yellow circular indication) would really be a problem
I can't recall ever seeing one in South Carolina, however I have seen many in my hometown (Long Island, NY)
Example 1:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.825349,-73.3434053,3a,75y,327.19h,94.02t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1siITUCV5k_T_CJWNAOo4UeQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Example 2: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8313734,-73.4108254,3a,75y,165.77h,89.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sROZbzI1Z2_qjI60d35_vmQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Example 3:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8362492,-73.3350726,3a,45.2y,228.74h,91.55t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stkm7ouS7W1I43w1-KteVnQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Quote from: ran4sh on February 17, 2022, 01:13:19 AM
Quote from: US 89 on February 13, 2022, 11:55:57 PM
I know there is a one-aspect green ball somewhere in the Atlanta metro area, but I cannot for the life of me remember where it is.
There are several in the Atlanta area, the typical use case is at a partial diamond interchange where there is sufficient left-turn demand onto the onramp for a signal, in which case the single-aspect green lights are mounted over the straight-thru lanes. Examples: Sidney Marcus at SR 400 (https://goo.gl/maps/BCSYDgfB3j9JyuKz8), Peachtree-Dunwoody at I-285, Glenridge Dr at I-285, etc.
The SR 141 (Peachtree Industrial) and I-285 interchange has them too (https://goo.gl/maps/J3gMNPhTQpGqJhaLA)
Yeah, I knew about most of those, especially the one on Peachtree Industrial which I drive through fairly often - but those are all one-aspect green
arrows. I’m almost positive there is at least one single circular green ball indication somewhere in the north half of the metro, and I feel like it’s at some sort of free right type movement.
Maryland has these all over, but the through lane doesn't have a light.
There are a couple near me. The first is at Northland and Sharon Roads in Forest Park (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2756569,-84.5097119,3a,45y,86.89h,99.15t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1suOm0G9lrVkDWC63Jy9vD7w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192), and another on Springfield Pike at Congress on the border between Woodlawn and Glendale. (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.264382,-84.4691313,3a,75y,348.55h,97.74t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sp8D4i1DvTQVDAohOPomSmg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) This one is interesting because there are (apparently) red and yellow globes but they never get used. There are no crosswalks at this location.
Quote from: frankenroad on February 17, 2022, 03:14:12 PM
There are a couple near me. The first is at Northland and Sharon Roads in Forest Park (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2756569,-84.5097119,3a,45y,86.89h,99.15t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1suOm0G9lrVkDWC63Jy9vD7w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192), and another on Springfield Pike at Congress on the border between Woodlawn and Glendale. (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.264382,-84.4691313,3a,75y,348.55h,97.74t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sp8D4i1DvTQVDAohOPomSmg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) This one is interesting because there are (apparently) red and yellow globes but they never get used. There are no crosswalks at this location.
I haven't seen that many myself in the Cincy area, but the one that stands out the most to me is a right turn one on the I-71 NB Pfeiffer Rd ramp (exit 15).
I can't remember seeing any in Ontario, but I did see this one in Saskatoon, SK when I visited 5 years ago. This example also has the interesting "double red" lights they use for left turn signals. Circle Dr at Airport Dr GSV link (https://www.google.ca/maps/@52.1541469,-106.6817749,3a,50.4y,30.71h,92.83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1spR6qYjpPm1WZ01ez6NDwNg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192).
These were common in Charleston, West Virginia back in the 1960s and 1970s. Both the upriver lanes of Southside Expressway (southbound WV-61) and Kanawha Boulevard (sometimes Alt US-60, eastbound lanes) were equipped with full signals in the left lane and thru perpetual green signals on the right lanes (with Bots Dots between the lanes) at most of the signalized intersections. It was funny to see out-of-towners pass on the left only to get snagged by the traffic signal, whereas locals just doodled in the right lane but kept moving. There were so many in a row on The Boulevard that during rush hour, it effectively created a single lane eastbound with a dedicated turn lane. By the mid-1970s, so many businesses were moving out of the West End that there was hardly any need for left turns off the Boulevard during the morning rush hour.
There are a few examples in Metro Detroit. Here's one I've found (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4250517,-83.4220128,3a,33.1y,83.25h,89.89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s5Wgmdfy7IIniAmExBe1X7Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) in Livonia, this is facing eastbound on Seven Mile Rd at I-275/I-96.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on February 18, 2022, 12:14:37 PM
These were common in Charleston, West Virginia, back in the 1960s and 1970s. Both the upriver lanes of Southside Expressway (southbound WV-61) and Kanawha Boulevard (sometimes Alt US-60, eastbound lanes) were equipped with full signals in the left lane and thru perpetual green signals on the right lanes (with Bots Dots between the lanes) at most of the signalized intersections. It was funny to see out-of-towners pass on the left only to get snagged by the traffic signal, whereas locals just doodled in the right lane but kept moving. There were so many in a row on The Boulevard that during rush hour, it effectively created a single lane eastbound with a dedicated turn lane. By the mid-1970s, so many businesses were moving out of the West End that there was hardly any need for left turns off the Boulevard during the morning rush hour.
As of 2017, there was at least one such signal remaining at the corner of Kanawha and Greenbrier near the State Capitol. I had never been to Charleston before and we made a left from Greenbrier onto southbound Kanawha and as I completed my turn someone came FLYING through in the other lane going extremely fast (easily 60 mph or more). Startled the shit out of me because I wasn't aware of the configuration and the guy appeared out of nowhere very quickly. At least there were plastic bollards between the lanes (exactly what some comments up the thread have suggested are necessary in these situations).
There may be other such setups remaining in Charleston, but that's the only one I remember encountering.
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 19, 2022, 09:03:42 AM
Quote from: Dirt Roads on February 18, 2022, 12:14:37 PM
These were common in Charleston, West Virginia, back in the 1960s and 1970s. Both the upriver lanes of Southside Expressway (southbound WV-61) and Kanawha Boulevard (sometimes Alt US-60, eastbound lanes) were equipped with full signals in the left lane and thru perpetual green signals on the right lanes (with Bots Dots between the lanes) at most of the signalized intersections. It was funny to see out-of-towners pass on the left only to get snagged by the traffic signal, whereas locals just doodled in the right lane but kept moving. There were so many in a row on The Boulevard that during rush hour, it effectively created a single lane eastbound with a dedicated turn lane. By the mid-1970s, so many businesses were moving out of the West End that there was hardly any need for left turns off the Boulevard during the morning rush hour.
As of 2017, there was at least one such signal remaining at the corner of Kanawha and Greenbrier near the State Capitol. I had never been to Charleston before and we made a left from Greenbrier onto southbound Kanawha and as I completed my turn someone came FLYING through in the other lane going extremely fast (easily 60 mph or more). Startled the shit out of me because I wasn't aware of the configuration and the guy appeared out of nowhere very quickly. At least there were plastic bollards between the lanes (exactly what some comments up the thread have suggested are necessary in these situations).
There may be other such setups remaining in Charleston, but that's the only one I remember encountering.
Most of the Kanawha Boulevard ones in Charleston were removed a couple years ago to improve pedestrian access to the river. There are still some along MacCorkle Avenue (WV 61). There's also one on US 60 just east of the WV Turnpike at Campbells Creek Drive.
There are some other instances throughout the state, including one about a mile from my house in Morgantown at WV 7 and I-68.
You forgot Bakersfield and there two examples
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.3625639,-119.0732559,3a,32.4y,258.12h,93.49t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sKYiLcAMV08B7hbXO-2vClA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DKYiLcAMV08B7hbXO-2vClA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D310.23325%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.3970974,-119.1456479,3a,15.6y,8.65h,92.53t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sbLJ782GvgY95h_r6YKSxrQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DbLJ782GvgY95h_r6YKSxrQ%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D357.44418%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192
*note*this one has louvers
Quote from: Dirt Roads on February 18, 2022, 12:14:37 PM
These were common in Charleston, West Virginia, back in the 1960s and 1970s. Both the upriver lanes of Southside Expressway (southbound WV-61) and Kanawha Boulevard (sometimes Alt US-60, eastbound lanes) were equipped with full signals in the left lane and thru perpetual green signals on the right lanes (with Bots Dots between the lanes) at most of the signalized intersections. It was funny to see out-of-towners pass on the left only to get snagged by the traffic signal, whereas locals just doodled in the right lane but kept moving. There were so many in a row on The Boulevard that during rush hour, it effectively created a single lane eastbound with a dedicated turn lane. By the mid-1970s, so many businesses were moving out of the West End that there was hardly any need for left turns off the Boulevard during the morning rush hour.
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 19, 2022, 09:03:42 AM
As of 2017, there was at least one such signal remaining at the corner of Kanawha and Greenbrier near the State Capitol. I had never been to Charleston before and we made a left from Greenbrier onto southbound Kanawha and as I completed my turn someone came FLYING through in the other lane going extremely fast (easily 60 mph or more). Startled the shit out of me because I wasn't aware of the configuration and the guy appeared out of nowhere very quickly. At least there were plastic bollards between the lanes (exactly what some comments up the thread have suggested are necessary in these situations).
There may be other such setups remaining in Charleston, but that's the only one I remember encountering.
Quote from: Bitmapped on February 19, 2022, 06:31:56 PM
Most of the Kanawha Boulevard ones in Charleston were removed a couple years ago to improve pedestrian access to the river. There are still some along MacCorkle Avenue (WV 61). There's also one on US 60 just east of the WV Turnpike at Campbells Creek Drive.
There are some other instances throughout the state, including one about a mile from my house in Morgantown at WV 7 and I-68.
And speaking of MacCorkle Avenue (a.k.a. the Southside Expressway), I forgot about the two downriver (northbound WV-61) locations: one at the Thayer Street loopback around the Amtrak station for the South Side Bridge, and the other nextdoor at the north end of Oakwood Road (US-119 Connector). The latter one is unusual, as it is the official end of Corridor G rather than making a straightline connection to I-64/US-119 northbound.
Perpetual turn arrow (https://goo.gl/maps/t7qYnp56ETmUVrzs9), anyone?
Quote from: interstatefan990 on February 21, 2022, 05:13:08 AM
Perpetual turn arrow (https://goo.gl/maps/t7qYnp56ETmUVrzs9), anyone?
How about this? (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.439183,-83.428842,3a,83y,272.62h,90.91t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGOVwAE70vCSaDlYZpm6AHg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
^^ In Illinois: https://goo.gl/maps/9JxaimweRFv9X23t7
Quote from: US 89 on February 17, 2022, 08:22:34 AM
Quote from: ran4sh on February 17, 2022, 01:13:19 AM
Quote from: US 89 on February 13, 2022, 11:55:57 PM
I know there is a one-aspect green ball somewhere in the Atlanta metro area, but I cannot for the life of me remember where it is.
There are several in the Atlanta area, the typical use case is at a partial diamond interchange where there is sufficient left-turn demand onto the onramp for a signal, in which case the single-aspect green lights are mounted over the straight-thru lanes. Examples: Sidney Marcus at SR 400 (https://goo.gl/maps/BCSYDgfB3j9JyuKz8), Peachtree-Dunwoody at I-285, Glenridge Dr at I-285, etc.
The SR 141 (Peachtree Industrial) and I-285 interchange has them too (https://goo.gl/maps/J3gMNPhTQpGqJhaLA)
Yeah, I knew about most of those, especially the one on Peachtree Industrial which I drive through fairly often - but those are all one-aspect green arrows. I’m almost positive there is at least one single circular green ball indication somewhere in the north half of the metro, and I feel like it’s at some sort of free right type movement.
Update: I found what I'm pretty sure I was remembering. It is in fact not in the Atlanta area, but on US 80 at Islands Expressway in Savannah:
(https://i.imgur.com/wIJA3ZQ.jpg)
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 19, 2022, 09:03:42 AM
Quote from: Dirt Roads on February 18, 2022, 12:14:37 PM
These were common in Charleston, West Virginia, back in the 1960s and 1970s. Both the upriver lanes of Southside Expressway (southbound WV-61) and Kanawha Boulevard (sometimes Alt US-60, eastbound lanes) were equipped with full signals in the left lane and thru perpetual green signals on the right lanes (with Bots Dots between the lanes) at most of the signalized intersections. It was funny to see out-of-towners pass on the left only to get snagged by the traffic signal, whereas locals just doodled in the right lane but kept moving. There were so many in a row on The Boulevard that during rush hour, it effectively created a single lane eastbound with a dedicated turn lane. By the mid-1970s, so many businesses were moving out of the West End that there was hardly any need for left turns off the Boulevard during the morning rush hour.
As of 2017, there was at least one such signal remaining at the corner of Kanawha and Greenbrier near the State Capitol. I had never been to Charleston before and we made a left from Greenbrier onto southbound Kanawha and as I completed my turn someone came FLYING through in the other lane going extremely fast (easily 60 mph or more). Startled the shit out of me because I wasn't aware of the configuration and the guy appeared out of nowhere very quickly. At least there were plastic bollards between the lanes (exactly what some comments up the thread have suggested are necessary in these situations).
There may be other such setups remaining in Charleston, but that's the only one I remember encountering.
The Greenbriar ones are up and down a mountain. Downhill traffic splits where the left lane goes through the signalized intersection (along with a left turn lane) while the right lane is free flowing with a green arrow.
https://goo.gl/maps/qjwsUg5SqZ1sVKBJ9
I know of one example in Plymouth Meeting, PA. As shown in GSV, there is a sign telling thru traffic to keep moving, while there is no signal for them ahead (just for the left turn).
https://goo.gl/maps/wHD3dpXzrTY7nrm46
A close second is a light on US 202 around the King of Prussia Mall where mall traffic can only turn right onto 202. However, there is a pedestrian signal, so this light is not perpetually green (albeit it rarely turns red for NB traffic).
https://goo.gl/maps/2na8gyLUfX9av4kt9
Here's another perpetual turn arrow in Des Plaines, Illinois:
https://goo.gl/maps/QqNUBTJFYKrqxHUM8
One of the arrows is out, and there's only one left. So if that one goes, I guess it won't be perpetual anymore.
Also in Illinois, up in Libertyville on IL-176:
https://goo.gl/maps/vLxbwfva8n72pRjQ7
I question why this one even needs to exist at all. The protected-only left is overkill here.
While we're talking about Illinois...
I-90 @ US-20 (Hampshire) (https://goo.gl/maps/Na35NooqMDcMCGKJ9)
If the goal is to keep traffic moving, then they certainly do better at that than the KEEP MOVING signs that are (were?) all over the place in GA
Quote from: kphoger on March 16, 2022, 12:04:38 PM
While we're talking about Illinois...
I-90 @ US-20 (Hampshire) (https://goo.gl/maps/Na35NooqMDcMCGKJ9)
I question why this one even needs to exist at all. It appears that the green aspects aren't even fully visible until you're already within the pork chop area, where it should be painfully obvious that it's a dedicated turn...and by the time you see them, the geometry seems fairly obvious that you have an added lane and need not stop...
Quote from: roadfro on March 16, 2022, 04:14:11 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 16, 2022, 12:04:38 PM
While we're talking about Illinois...
I-90 @ US-20 (Hampshire) (https://goo.gl/maps/Na35NooqMDcMCGKJ9)
I question why this one even needs to exist at all. It appears that the green aspects aren't even fully visible until you're already within the pork chop area, where it should be painfully obvious that it's a dedicated turn...and by the time you see them, the geometry seems fairly obvious that you have an added lane and need not stop...
I think, legally, one would still be required to stop for the main signal without those constant arrows.
Incidentally, this location was the first time I had ever seen a single-aspect stoplight–back in 2003 or so.
Here's a strange one that I found in Ontario, I don't think I've ever seen such a configuration anywhere else.
It's a permissive green that sometimes gets a protected arrow, but the green balls are eternal. Notice that there also isn't a signal mounted on the right side. Strange.
(https://i.imgur.com/wZzQftf.png)
Here's a perpetual green, with permissive/protected left, but with normal signal configs
(https://i.imgur.com/OoHF2Kg.png)
Quote from: kphoger on March 16, 2022, 04:17:13 PM
Quote from: roadfro on March 16, 2022, 04:14:11 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 16, 2022, 12:04:38 PM
While we're talking about Illinois...
I-90 @ US-20 (Hampshire) (https://goo.gl/maps/Na35NooqMDcMCGKJ9)
I question why this one even needs to exist at all. It appears that the green aspects aren't even fully visible until you're already within the pork chop area, where it should be painfully obvious that it's a dedicated turn...and by the time you see them, the geometry seems fairly obvious that you have an added lane and need not stop...
I think, legally, one would still be required to stop for the main signal without those constant arrows.
Definitely not, it's a simple right turn slip lane, and just like every other one that doesn't explicitly have a stop line and signal pointed at it, it is controlled separately from the signal. In this case, to ensure drivers keep moving, they've added green arrows. As it is more often common than not for slip lanes to have a yield sign, or in the case of Illinois, a signal, apparently they decided that a constant burning green arrow would be the best way to keep drivers moving; many states use regulatory signage ("right turn does not stop", "right turn keep moving", etc). I personally think what Illinois has done here is actually a lot cleaner than using a sign.
Quote from: jakeroot on March 16, 2022, 05:47:21 PM
it's a simple right turn slip lane, and just like every other one that doesn't explicitly have a stop line and signal pointed at it, it is controlled separately from the signal. In this case, to ensure drivers keep moving, they've added green arrows. As it is more often common than not for slip lanes to have a yield sign, or in the case of Illinois, a signal, apparently they decided that a constant burning green arrow would be the best way to keep drivers moving
The bolded phrase is what I had in mind. I don't think I've ever seen a slip lane without some form of traffic control device in the state of Illinois. This leads me to think the slip lane is actually considered part of the intersection there.
More generally, though, I haven't ever looked into the vehicle code to see how slip lanes are legally treated, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if there's no specific carve-out that exempts them from stop-on-red requirements. That is to say, I find it entirely likely that, legally speaking, slip lanes are not actually "controlled separately from the signal". Not saying it's definitely the case, but I haven't explored that detail of the legal code.
US 280 at Cherokee Rd in the Birmingham suburbs also has a full set of perma-green balls
(https://i.imgur.com/8hDULVC.jpg)
Lynnwood has a ramp meter with perpetual green for the HOV lanes (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.8293384,-122.2659087,3a,37.7y,197.39h,98.36t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLEkep-0v1splmyziDx1Pog!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en) (when the ramp meters are on).
Aberdeen has a perpetual green right turn arrow at a non-signalized intersection (https://www.google.com/maps/@46.9927956,-123.8860863,3a,23.1y,101.6h,89.49t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7iptcF6VYsHkAtYH9FXC_g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en) (essentially a "stop except right turns" situation, but without any signage).
Quote from: jay8g on March 27, 2022, 02:24:25 AM
Aberdeen has a perpetual green right turn arrow at a non-signalized intersection (https://www.google.com/maps/@46.9927956,-123.8860863,3a,23.1y,101.6h,89.49t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7iptcF6VYsHkAtYH9FXC_g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en) (essentially a "stop except right turns" situation, but without any signage).
Now
that is cool. There's no way that's MUTCD compliant, but still very cool. Really only works without crosswalks, though, which is less than ideal.
Quote from: jakeroot on March 27, 2022, 03:37:39 AM
Quote from: jay8g on March 27, 2022, 02:24:25 AM
Aberdeen has a perpetual green right turn arrow at a non-signalized intersection (https://www.google.com/maps/@46.9927956,-123.8860863,3a,23.1y,101.6h,89.49t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7iptcF6VYsHkAtYH9FXC_g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en) (essentially a "stop except right turns" situation, but without any signage).
Now that is cool. There's no way that's MUTCD compliant, but still very cool. Really only works without crosswalks, though, which is less than ideal.
Doesn't Michigan sometimes use that setup, except that the arrow is flashing and yellow?
Quote from: jakeroot on March 27, 2022, 03:37:39 AM
Quote from: jay8g on March 27, 2022, 02:24:25 AM
Aberdeen has a perpetual green right turn arrow at a non-signalized intersection (https://www.google.com/maps/@46.9927956,-123.8860863,3a,23.1y,101.6h,89.49t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7iptcF6VYsHkAtYH9FXC_g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en) (essentially a "stop except right turns" situation, but without any signage).
Now that is cool. There's no way that's MUTCD compliant, but still very cool. Really only works without crosswalks, though, which is less than ideal.
PA sometimes does flashing red signals with a green ball for continuous right turns. I've seen them a couple times but the one that comes to mind is US 62/PA 8 at Franklin: https://goo.gl/maps/ufJ9XV39fpzHKnm56
Two Ohio examples I can think of:
US 23 northbound in Delaware (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.2777888,-83.0693119,3a,75y,35.79h,80.16t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sL-CZOfDBXoLsXDpsT2q34A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
US 52 westbound, directly across the river from Ashland, KY (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.4864497,-82.6382258,3a,30y,307.93h,89.81t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szvdEQoo4IDQL5B-D7d2xSA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
Quote from: KCRoadFan on February 13, 2022, 11:45:37 PM
Around the Kansas City metro, where I live, I have seen numerous signalized intersections where the cross-street only goes left, and while the left lane has a standard left-turn signal, the right lanes have this weird one-aspect signal that is simply a perpetual green arrow. Here they are, with Street View links:
Metcalf Avenue southbound at Blue Valley Parkway in Overland Park - https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9148542,-94.6688298,3a,37.5y,185.79h,89.21t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqbAC7rh3FLrwD-8xa5Uo3g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
US 56 westbound at Old 56 Highway on the east side of Gardner, near New Century Air Center - https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8132529,-94.9036987,3a,37.5y,220.79h,90.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWsfIh7IdhAxr18Ovxy07UQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
7th Street northbound at the westbound I-70 on-ramp in KCK - https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0953935,-94.6260578,3a,75y,2h,102.44t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLM6dTBA3aFYWkvdFBIJ_ZA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
US 24/40 (State Avenue) westbound at the southbound K-7 on-ramp in Bonner Springs - https://www.google.com/maps/@39.116132,-94.8963941,3a,37.5y,269.06h,96.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sTvai9to8O_YP29YkFJU30g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Of note, all four of these signals are on the Kansas side of the metro. Is this a Kansas thing in particular? Also, where else throughout the country have you seen such installations? I'm sure there must be at least a few of them out there somewhere.
Although I have seen an example of what the OP describes near William Land Park (right lane goes through and usually turns right) and several streets in the 30s and 40s that bend at Folsom Blvd (perpetual green light favors through traffic continuing on the jog and thouse turning right onto one of those streets) in Sacramento, my favorite was a near miss at the light at what was then Manlove Rd (today S Watt Ave) crossing Jackson Rd (CASR-16). Later at night when I was going to work an allnight shift, the light would heavily favor and would stay green for Manlove Rd, but, because of high speed and light vehicles and imperfect sensors, the lights would do a "clean up" cycle every couple of minutes to make sure that traffic on CASR-16 eventually got a chance to proceed. I would frequently (because I left for work at alomst the same time every night and traffic was very predictable) see the light on Manlove turn yellow against me and then green when I tripped the (maybe second?) sensor. The first couple of times I wasn't sure of what I saw, but it happened often enough that I was eventually sure.
Max can probably say whether these same phenomena occur today, since I haven't really been in Sacramento except to visit family or attend a Bridge tournament since 1991.
Quote from: JoePCool14 on March 27, 2022, 10:28:07 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on March 27, 2022, 03:37:39 AM
Quote from: jay8g on March 27, 2022, 02:24:25 AM
Aberdeen has a perpetual green right turn arrow at a non-signalized intersection (https://www.google.com/maps/@46.9927956,-123.8860863,3a,23.1y,101.6h,89.49t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7iptcF6VYsHkAtYH9FXC_g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en) (essentially a "stop except right turns" situation, but without any signage).
Now that is cool. There's no way that's MUTCD compliant, but still very cool. Really only works without crosswalks, though, which is less than ideal.
Doesn't Michigan sometimes use that setup, except that the arrow is flashing and yellow?
Quote from: Bitmapped on March 27, 2022, 11:20:51 AM
PA sometimes does flashing red signals with a green ball for continuous right turns. I've seen them a couple times but the one that comes to mind is US 62/PA 8 at Franklin: https://goo.gl/maps/ufJ9XV39fpzHKnm56
I guess it doesn't surprise me that it's used on a semi regular basis, although I highly doubt new installations are still popping up, since the whole "no crosswalk" thing is a bit problematic for a neighborhood setting.
Michigan's version with a flashing yellow arrow is pretty cool, if it's a thing. That would actually allow for a crosswalk.
MN 62 at I-35E in Mendota Heights https://www.google.com/maps/@44.8838433,-93.141486,3a,37.5y,255.49h,98.55t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1svQoPnj94HaIAZ-gufSQ-1Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
There were these (https://goo.gl/maps/qHnL3B6ao9GJ6KTK9) on CT 10 in Plainville up until a couple years ago (shown here in October of 2020; they were gone soon after). The mast arm ones that replaced them are traditional signals, but they never turn red because there is no left turn from the street on the left. They will blink yellow late at night though.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 27, 2022, 12:53:11 PM
MN 62 at I-35E in Mendota Heights https://www.google.com/maps/@44.8838433,-93.141486,3a,37.5y,255.49h,98.55t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1svQoPnj94HaIAZ-gufSQ-1Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
You are also obligated to post this in the
Double left turns with permissive phasing (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=17051.0) thread.
:bigass:
(although I already did to save you the time)
Northbound Jamboree Road at I-405 in Irvine, CA (https://goo.gl/maps/MnCsKGABQC5S6xrv6)
Quote from: SeriesE on March 27, 2022, 03:48:33 PM
Northbound Jamboree Road at I-405 in Irvine, CA (https://goo.gl/maps/MnCsKGABQC5S6xrv6)
Very cool example, I've seen these used for partial cloverleaf A4 interchanges before, but always for the first right turn. Not sure I've ever seen one for the loop on the far side of the interchange!
Also, I think this is the first I've seen with all three corners covered (overhead, near right, far right) for the perpetual green arrow. In true CA fashion, of course.
Perpetual green left turn arrow (https://www.google.com/maps/@25.7897753,-80.3772378,3a,18.7y,246.79h,88.53t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1svXo4n7HrNo5pTWtgT33Ikw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192/) in Miami.
There are actually three of these in total around Dolphin Mall.
Quote from: STLmapboy on March 27, 2022, 07:50:30 PM
Perpetual green left turn arrow (https://www.google.com/maps/@25.7897753,-80.3772378,3a,18.7y,246.79h,88.53t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1svXo4n7HrNo5pTWtgT33Ikw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192/) in Miami.
There are actually three of these in total around Dolphin Mall.
Off-topic, but why is the "Do not stop" sign in Spanish more wordy? Also, why is there one to begin with? Is there a significant Spanish population there?
Quote from: LilianaUwU on March 27, 2022, 11:34:46 PM
Quote from: STLmapboy on March 27, 2022, 07:50:30 PM
Perpetual green left turn arrow (https://www.google.com/maps/@25.7897753,-80.3772378,3a,18.7y,246.79h,88.53t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1svXo4n7HrNo5pTWtgT33Ikw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192/) in Miami.
There are actually three of these in total around Dolphin Mall.
Off-topic, but why is the "Do not stop" sign in Spanish more wordy? Also, why is there one to begin with? Is there a significant Spanish population there?
Spanish is huge in Miami, well over half the people speak it. Many of those don't even speak English. From what I can find, only about a quarter of people from Miami speak only English.
Miami has been a huge immigration point for people from many Spanish-speaking countries, particularly Cuba.
Quote from: LilianaUwU on March 27, 2022, 11:34:46 PM
Quote from: STLmapboy on March 27, 2022, 07:50:30 PM
Perpetual green left turn arrow (https://www.google.com/maps/@25.7897753,-80.3772378,3a,18.7y,246.79h,88.53t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1svXo4n7HrNo5pTWtgT33Ikw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192/) in Miami.
There are actually three of these in total around Dolphin Mall.
Off-topic, but why is the "Do not stop" sign in Spanish more wordy? Also, why is there one to begin with? Is there a significant Spanish population there?
I don't know Spanish, but based on my knowledge of French and very minimal Spanish vocab, I'm guessing it says something like "Do not stop you have the right of way".
"No Pare" - No stop, pare comes from prior knowledge
"Usted" - from prior knowledge, "you"
"Tiene" - Close enough to the French word, tenir, which means "hold"
"Via Libre" - Again from French, via sounds close enough to "voie" which means lane, and libre in French means "free". So "free lane", in this context, I would assume would mean something like "right of way?"
I'm just guessing haha
"tiene" indeed means "you have/he/she has". (The infinitive form is tener; it's an irregular verb.)
Quote from: andrepoiy on March 28, 2022, 12:13:44 AM
I don't know Spanish, but based on my knowledge of French and very minimal Spanish vocab, I'm guessing it says something like "Do not stop you have the right of way".
I know enough Spanish from back in high school to know that's exactly what that is. (Well technically, via libre is "free way", but it's pretty clear what that means.)
The makers of that sign should probably have used an editor...
In Mexico, "right of way" is treated on road signs as "preferencia" (preference). For example, I've seen [PREFENCIA] placards below roundabout warning signs to indicate that traffic in the roundabout has right of way, and I've seen [PREFERENCIA AL PEATON] signs at crosswalks. I don't believe any such sign is actually in the SCT manual, but they're somewhat common in the field.
More generally, I believe there's also the term "derecho de paso" (right of way). This meaning of the word "paso" is similar to how saying "Pase" or "Pásele" roughly translates as "Go ahead".
I've never seen any use of the term "vÃa libre" to mean "right of way". The phrase certainly never appears in the SCT manual, although I've never looked at Cuba's manual.
Quote from: jakeroot on March 27, 2022, 12:22:22 PM
Michigan's version with a flashing yellow arrow is pretty cool, if it's a thing. That would actually allow for a crosswalk.
Here's one I know of in the small town of Bellaire, MI on M-88.
https://goo.gl/maps/dxzFmJLd2Q4djU3P7
You'll have to move around a bit, but that is indeed a yellow flashing arrow with a traditional MDOT lit-up RIGHT sign. I always thought it was pretty slick.
EDIT: There's also a flashing yellow ball for traffic approaching from the north. The other three sides all have flashing red with the stop sign.
I recall only seeing one one ever in the State of Arizona, in Payson at the intersection of SR 87 and SR 260 for the channelized N-E right turn. It was replaced a three aspect signal head sometime after 2011 presumably to avoid legal issues with the pedestrian crossing in the middle of the turn:
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.2401606,-111.3229391,3a,41.2y,19.49h,88.61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1smL72oKOBUb98p0E_vFC9cg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
In Arizona it's typical to treat an unrestricted movement at a pelican crossing as follows:
with a three aspect head when pedestrian crossing or a future continuation of the terminating side street:
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.1341042,-110.7727893,3a,19.3y,164.8h,89.56t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQ1Msfeu72b0OfBlmrxskpw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Or with no signal heads at all when there's no pedestrian traffic and a permanently terminating side street:
https://goo.gl/maps/aYVJG2XCwEDCYokG6
Quote from: JoePCool14 on March 31, 2022, 06:00:31 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on March 27, 2022, 12:22:22 PM
Michigan's version with a flashing yellow arrow is pretty cool, if it's a thing. That would actually allow for a crosswalk.
Here's one I know of in the small town of Bellaire, MI on M-88.
https://goo.gl/maps/dxzFmJLd2Q4djU3P7
You'll have to move around a bit, but that is indeed a yellow flashing arrow with a traditional MDOT lit-up RIGHT sign. I always thought it was pretty slick.
EDIT: There's also a flashing yellow ball for traffic approaching from the north. The other three sides all have flashing red with the stop sign.
Definitely very cool. Interesting to see only a single overhead stop sign, not sure it's MUTCD kosher but I don't see anything wrong with it. Better than the Aberdeen example without any stop sign, just the flasher (which really should be enough but I don't think, per the manual, it actually is...then again, not sure having a signalized turn at a stop-controlled intersection is MUTCD kosher either ... IDK).
Quote from: jakeroot on March 27, 2022, 04:23:06 PM
Quote from: SeriesE on March 27, 2022, 03:48:33 PM
Northbound Jamboree Road at I-405 in Irvine, CA (https://goo.gl/maps/MnCsKGABQC5S6xrv6)
Very cool example, I've seen these used for partial cloverleaf A4 interchanges before, but always for the first right turn. Not sure I've ever seen one for the loop on the far side of the interchange!
Also, I think this is the first I've seen with all three corners covered (overhead, near right, far right) for the perpetual green arrow. In true CA fashion, of course.
Here's another two nearby but with concrete dividers between the exit lane and the through lanes:
Northbound Harbor Blvd at I-405 in Costa Mesa, CA (https://goo.gl/maps/NySPkHjqz7eXHoN69)
Southbound Harbor Blvd at I-405 in Costa Mesa, CA (https://goo.gl/maps/nqiu1zmSBpdw5LiP8)
I think this is actually a pretty smart way to design Parclo A4s because there's no point for traffic entering the freeway to stop at a stoplight when they are on the right most lane anyway.
Edit: fixed Harbor Blvd link
Quote from: SeriesE on April 01, 2022, 04:19:45 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on March 27, 2022, 04:23:06 PM
Quote from: SeriesE on March 27, 2022, 03:48:33 PM
Northbound Jamboree Road at I-405 in Irvine, CA (https://goo.gl/maps/MnCsKGABQC5S6xrv6)
Very cool example, I've seen these used for partial cloverleaf A4 interchanges before, but always for the first right turn. Not sure I've ever seen one for the loop on the far side of the interchange!
Also, I think this is the first I've seen with all three corners covered (overhead, near right, far right) for the perpetual green arrow. In true CA fashion, of course.
Here's another two nearby but with concrete dividers between the exit lane and the through lanes:
Northbound Harbor Blvd at I-405 in Costa Mesa, CA (https://goo.gl/maps/Yaeh77o9fwVPY1oo7)
Southbound Harbor Blvd at I-405 in Costa Mesa, CA (https://goo.gl/maps/nqiu1zmSBpdw5LiP8)
I think this is actually a pretty smart way to design Parclo A4s because there's no point for traffic entering the freeway to stop at a stoplight when they are on the right most lane anyway.
(fixed the first link -- it was a duplicate of the Jamboree/405 link)
It's definitely pretty smart. The only real issue I see is the potential for traffic to stay right through the continuous green arrow, and then slide over into the straight-on lanes, basically skipping the signals. It's physically impossible with the Costa Mesa A4 given the concrete barrier, but it's at least physically possible at the Irvine example as there is nothing but mere lines preventing someone from just slipping into the straight-on lanes.
Another good A4 design is to simply have the off-ramp come in as its own lane on the left.
Example near me in Surrey, BC (https://goo.gl/maps/QZomovDxGUs6kgzSA). This effectively permits all traffic to keep moving, although it is physically quite difficult for situations where there are multiple turn lanes from the off-ramp.
Slightly off-topic: that Costa Mesa A4 is an example of how, when the signals on the right side of the road somehow don't match those on the left side (or through lanes), you can end up having approaches with only overhead signals, something that is extremely unusual in California. The Irvine example did it right, by having the supplemental through signal on the far left corner, but that Costa Mesa A4 has no supplemental signals for through traffic. Although I don't know the exact rule, CA is quite strict when it comes to providing supplemental signals for each unique movement. In other words, best I understand it, the continuous movement and the through/straight-on movement would be considered two separate movements and both would require their own supplemental signals. Oddly, northbound Harbor used to have a supplemental signal in the median, but it was removed a while ago.
Quote from: kphoger on March 30, 2022, 03:01:40 PM
The makers of that sign should probably have used an editor...
In Mexico, "right of way" is treated on road signs as "preferencia" (preference). For example, I've seen [PREFENCIA] placards below roundabout warning signs to indicate that traffic in the roundabout has right of way, and I've seen [PREFERENCIA AL PEATON] signs at crosswalks.
That sounds pretty good for Al Peaton, whoever he is...
(https://i.imgur.com/lzSzuiJ.png)
Here's (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6620024,-122.3477537,3a,73.1y,292.47h,98.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1slmL38VOrx_Dhidrh9_B-Hg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) one in Seattle where it even has a yellow and red signal (that is never used).
Quote from: jakeroot on April 01, 2022, 09:26:32 PM
The only real issue I see is the potential for traffic to stay right through the continuous green arrow, and then slide over into the straight-on lanes, basically skipping the signals.
Sounds to me like a feature, not a bug. :D
Quote from: jakeroot on April 01, 2022, 09:26:32 PM
The only real issue I see is the potential for traffic to stay right through the continuous green arrow, and then slide over into the straight-on lanes, basically skipping the signals.
Oddly enough, for the times I have driven there, the opposite happens more often. People wait at the signal and then cut over after the signal.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/50/US_1-9_truck_NB_at_NJ_7_west_ramp%2C_perpet_green_arrow.jpg)
Here's a new one from Jersey installed in conjunction with the opening of the new Wittpenn last October from US 1/9 Truck north onto NJ 7 west. The road to the right has the full signals due to the pedestrian crossing.
Quote from: Mr. Matté on April 04, 2022, 10:59:53 PM
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/50/US_1-9_truck_NB_at_NJ_7_west_ramp%2C_perpet_green_arrow.jpg)
Here's a new one from Jersey installed in conjunction with the opening of the new Wittpenn last October from US 1/9 Truck north onto NJ 7 west. The road to the right has the full signals due to the pedestrian crossing.
There's no way that place meets a pedestrian signal warrant. For some reason the designers decide to keep the signal just because it was there before so let's keep it. Stupid.
Quote from: ran4sh on February 17, 2022, 01:13:19 AM
Florida seems to have decided to remove those continuous green type intersections statewide, there are some I remember in Jacksonville from the early 2010s that are not that way anymore according to GSV.
There's still at least 3 in Jacksonville along US-17 per StreetView.
US-17 (North Main Street)/Baisden Road (https://goo.gl/maps/ZzFGr7xwqJTNhhPHA) (March '21)
US-17 (North Main Street)/Imeson Park Blvd (https://goo.gl/maps/crvf6ypqP1Z8MKxu5) (February '22)
US-17 (North Main Street)/Zoo Pkwy (https://goo.gl/maps/JE7iFhW66MvL8dcn6) (January '22)
Quote from: jakeroot on April 01, 2022, 09:26:32 PM
Quote from: SeriesE on April 01, 2022, 04:19:45 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on March 27, 2022, 04:23:06 PM
Quote from: SeriesE on March 27, 2022, 03:48:33 PM
Northbound Jamboree Road at I-405 in Irvine, CA (https://goo.gl/maps/MnCsKGABQC5S6xrv6)
Very cool example, I've seen these used for partial cloverleaf A4 interchanges before, but always for the first right turn. Not sure I've ever seen one for the loop on the far side of the interchange!
Also, I think this is the first I've seen with all three corners covered (overhead, near right, far right) for the perpetual green arrow. In true CA fashion, of course.
Here's another two nearby but with concrete dividers between the exit lane and the through lanes:
Northbound Harbor Blvd at I-405 in Costa Mesa, CA (https://goo.gl/maps/Yaeh77o9fwVPY1oo7)
Southbound Harbor Blvd at I-405 in Costa Mesa, CA (https://goo.gl/maps/nqiu1zmSBpdw5LiP8)
I think this is actually a pretty smart way to design Parclo A4s because there's no point for traffic entering the freeway to stop at a stoplight when they are on the right most lane anyway.
(fixed the first link -- it was a duplicate of the Jamboree/405 link)
It's definitely pretty smart. The only real issue I see is the potential for traffic to stay right through the continuous green arrow, and then slide over into the straight-on lanes, basically skipping the signals. It's physically impossible with the Costa Mesa A4 given the concrete barrier, but it's at least physically possible at the Irvine example as there is nothing but mere lines preventing someone from just slipping into the straight-on lanes.
Jake's concern is something several bollards and/or small curbs (or even parking blocks) could easily fix relatively cheaply. Since this is essentially a high-T design, that treatment would actually be preferable than paint alone, so that it would be abundantly clear on the layout (especially so it's evident to the traffic turning from off ramp to the street that the thru traffic in the perma-green lane isn't going to conflict on their green turn arrow).
Ontario doesn't do the above when the ramp is behind the signal, probably for pedestrian reasons?
(https://i.imgur.com/bK3o6Bc.png)
Quote from: KEK Inc. on April 02, 2022, 09:09:15 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/lzSzuiJ.png)
Here's (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6620024,-122.3477537,3a,73.1y,292.47h,98.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1slmL38VOrx_Dhidrh9_B-Hg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) one in Seattle where it even has a yellow and red signal (that is never used).
It's not so in this case, but I wonder if three-aspect signals with unused yellow and red lens could be used instead of a single-aspect green, to prevent possible motorist confusion given the rarity of permanent greens. Almost like a placebo effect.
It just occurred to me while I was in Mexico several days ago, that these nifty new signals (https://goo.gl/maps/tGroSSHx7E5RU6VY9) that seem to be popping up all over Mexico only have a single aspect but aren't perpetually green. That is to say, it's a single aspect for all three phases (or four, considering Mexico uses a flashing green in advance of the amber). In fact, when I was in town, the post-mounted signal in that GSV shot wasn't working at all, so the approach literally had only one aspect.
Quote from: andrepoiy on April 07, 2022, 01:14:25 PM
Ontario doesn't do the above when the ramp is behind the signal, probably for pedestrian reasons?
(https://i.imgur.com/bK3o6Bc.png)
I think most common would not be using any pedestrian crossing, as it's assumed access to/from either side of the road would be done before or after the interchange, rather than at it.
That said, even at examples with continuous green signals, you could have pedestrian crossings a few hundred feet beyond the signal using regular pedestrian warning signs.
This is a very basic example but it's from my hometown.
The right turn movement from eastbound 179th street to southbound Lagrange Road (US-45) in Tinley Park has a channelized right turn lane setup which merges onto LaGrange in the form of an extra lane. This isn't too rare in IDOT's practices, but it isn't an everyday thing either.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5648572,-87.8522782,3a,75y,107.18h,83.86t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEqIKc3HPGCJ0UqYgH9wRxA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
A variant seen on Kingsway in Vancouver: top ball is perpetual green, bottom is a left turn arrow.
(https://i.imgur.com/cY7IEvB.jpeg)
KY 237 Hebron, KY...
https://goo.gl/maps/KEo66Y7DTT2wmfAGA
Quote from: kphoger on April 07, 2022, 04:00:48 PM
It just occurred to me while I was in Mexico several days ago, that these nifty new signals (https://goo.gl/maps/tGroSSHx7E5RU6VY9) that seem to be popping up all over Mexico only have a single aspect but aren't perpetually green. That is to say, it's a single aspect for all three phases (or four, considering Mexico uses a flashing green in advance of the amber). In fact, when I was in town, the post-mounted signal in that GSV shot wasn't working at all, so the approach literally had only one aspect.
:wow: :sombrero: Wow, those are really cool LED traffic signals with embedded words. The green signal displaying "siga" means to continue (moving). I guess they used that word instead of "vamos," which would be a more literal translation from English "go" but 5 letters long instead of 4.
Are there any other threads about these unique traffic signals in Mexico? I'd like to read more about those.
^ Check out the ALTO one on the opposite signal to the one shown!
Quote from: Bruce on August 02, 2022, 12:40:55 AM
A variant seen on Kingsway in Vancouver: top ball is perpetual green, bottom is a left turn arrow.
(https://i.imgur.com/cY7IEvB.jpeg)
Another one of these downtown on Georgia at Pender:
https://youtu.be/6-K46IWuHoQ
I wonder how some of these more unique single aspect lights work are interpreted by the color blind. To my understanding, many who are color blind can legally operate vehicles, even if they have red/green color blindness, because they judge the signal based on the position of the signal. Top light = stop, bottom light = go. (I am not sure if they can judge position as well at night.)
Now proper implementation of MUTCD means that you can never have a red straight arrow. So a lone green straight arrow, which is the most frequently used form of single aspect signal should be OK. But the lone green balls, and especially the examples that jakeroot posted from BC where the green ball sits on top of the green arrow must be especially confusing for the color blind. The top light is green, instead of red.
Perpetual green arrows on NY 104 at Ridgeway Ave. in Rochester, NY
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.194388,-77.6273647,3a,37.5y,268.95h,94.92t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snqarZg9ENsiW4yqqeHpMFA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en
These were posted in the Eternal Green Light thread.
Quote from: jakeroot on August 03, 2022, 10:18:03 AM
Quote from: Bruce on August 02, 2022, 12:40:55 AM
A variant seen on Kingsway in Vancouver: top ball is perpetual green, bottom is a left turn arrow.
Another one of these downtown on Georgia at Pender:
The top green reminds me of this beauty that they had captured on the old MassRoads.com (in 2001!) which fortunately I had saved because they were so great...a signal in Billerica, Mass was once set up this way.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fweb.archive.org%2Fweb%2F20030606214927im_%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fmassroads.com%2Fimages%2Fbillerica_left_turn_signal_green_20010925_2.jpg&hash=4ee5c0342e6330421a61688abeb090cfc29fe62f)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fweb.archive.org%2Fweb%2F20030606214927im_%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fmassroads.com%2Fimages%2Fbillerica_left_turn_signal_green_20010925_3_n.jpg&hash=d404491dbe267d068e573bd8b34d6695fbfab4ef)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fweb.archive.org%2Fweb%2F20030606214927im_%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fmassroads.com%2Fimages%2Fbillerica_left_turn_signal_green_20010925_1_n.jpg&hash=56afb1a1b927726124cdce345b1da1e3362ced30)
Also, the thru movements to the right of the crazy left turn had single-aspect heads.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fweb.archive.org%2Fweb%2F20030105183701%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fmassroads.com%2Fimages%2Fbillerica_center_signals_20010717_2.jpg&hash=70f69f7791cb156d32def4b18f80f3eca5499ce3)
The one copy of the page with the images (mostly) showing is at http://web.archive.org/web/20030606214927/http://massroads.com:80/billerica_left_turn.shtml but I am glad I saved the pics (in 2006, according to my computer) just in case because not all archived copies seem to bring up the pics of this nutty signal with green on top.
You can see on street view that by 2008, the signal was compliant with green balls for the oncoming traffic and a doghouse for the left turns. It really is a good candidate for a FYA.
I don't think NJ has any true examples. I've seen flashing yellow and red lights at an intersection reinforcing the stop signs, but those aren't true traffic lights. https://www.google.com/maps/@39.531376,-75.1071113,3a,75y,275.47h,87.98t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLvCJRCgy2jRUvFE34mx2lQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1
There is also an intersection with a permanent red, but it has a regular traffic light where the red is always on and the green ball replaced with a green left arrow.
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9371042,-74.9699042,3a,75y,33.71h,84.61t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1swwKmJ-q6nX2Ue9p52UGTqg!2e0!5s20160901T000000!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1
PurdueBill, just an FYI, but Facebook image links don't work 95% of the time. Might want to upload to imgur instead when posting to the forum.
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on August 16, 2022, 11:09:34 PM
PurdueBill, just an FYI, but Facebook image links don't work 95% of the time. Might want to upload to imgur instead when posting to the forum.
That wasn't where I thought they were coming from in the first place...hmm. Bet I was in the wrong window again. Trying editing...
Quote from: PurdueBill on August 17, 2022, 04:13:21 PM
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on August 16, 2022, 11:09:34 PM
PurdueBill, just an FYI, but Facebook image links don't work 95% of the time. Might want to upload to imgur instead when posting to the forum.
That wasn't where I thought they were coming from in the first place...hmm. Bet I was in the wrong window again. Trying editing...
Working now. ;)
OK, I just stumbled upon a really interesting example near Charleston, WV (https://goo.gl/maps/nNxLxN1YVa3MGqYa7). I've never seen anything quite like it: the right lane has a permanent green arrow, while the left lane functions as part of the intersection with the traditional green-yellow-red. I'm not sure why anyone would ever use the left lane if the light was red. It could make sense to use the left lane for passing during the green phase, but you still run the risk of it turning yellow/red while the right lane keeps moving.
Another possible argument for using the left lane would be to turn left at the next intersection. But even setting aside the fact that there's plenty of time to merge, note the ramp off to the right: That ramp is a flyover of the next intersection, so there would be no reason to be going straight here and then turning left when you could just use the flyover instead. A fascinating case study all around.
Quote from: webny99 on October 20, 2022, 02:37:07 PM
OK, I just stumbled upon a really interesting example near Charleston, WV (https://goo.gl/maps/nNxLxN1YVa3MGqYa7). I've never seen anything quite like it: the right lane has a permanent green arrow, while the left lane functions as part of the intersection with the traditional green-yellow-red. I'm not sure why anyone would ever use the left lane if the light was red. It could make sense to use the left lane for passing during the green phase, but you still run the risk of it turning yellow/red while the right lane keeps moving.
Another possible argument for using the left lane would be to turn left at the next intersection. But even setting aside the fact that there's plenty of time to merge, note the ramp off to the right: That ramp is a flyover of the next intersection, so there would be no reason to be going straight here and then turning left when you could just use the flyover instead. A fascinating case study all around.
That's interesting. It would be nice to know the logic of the traffic engineer who designed this
Quote from: webny99 on October 20, 2022, 02:37:07 PM
OK, I just stumbled upon a really interesting example near Charleston, WV (https://goo.gl/maps/nNxLxN1YVa3MGqYa7). I've never seen anything quite like it: the right lane has a permanent green arrow, while the left lane functions as part of the intersection with the traditional green-yellow-red. I'm not sure why anyone would ever use the left lane if the light was red. It could make sense to use the left lane for passing during the green phase, but you still run the risk of it turning yellow/red while the right lane keeps moving.
Another possible argument for using the left lane would be to turn left at the next intersection. But even setting aside the fact that there's plenty of time to merge, note the ramp off to the right: That ramp is a flyover of the next intersection, so there would be no reason to be going straight here and then turning left when you could just use the flyover instead. A fascinating case study all around.
I noticed what looks like an extra point to attach a signal head on the span wire... is it possible that this used to just be a straight signal and traffic started to outgrow it, so placing those dividers and adding the perpetual green on the right lane was a retrofit?
Quote from: webny99 on October 20, 2022, 02:37:07 PM
OK, I just stumbled upon a really interesting example near Charleston, WV (https://goo.gl/maps/nNxLxN1YVa3MGqYa7). I've never seen anything quite like it: the right lane has a permanent green arrow, while the left lane functions as part of the intersection with the traditional green-yellow-red. I'm not sure why anyone would ever use the left lane if the light was red. It could make sense to use the left lane for passing during the green phase, but you still run the risk of it turning yellow/red while the right lane keeps moving.
Another possible argument for using the left lane would be to turn left at the next intersection. But even setting aside the fact that there's plenty of time to merge, note the ramp off to the right: That ramp is a flyover of the next intersection, so there would be no reason to be going straight here and then turning left when you could just use the flyover instead. A fascinating case study all around.
Quote from: andrepoiy on October 20, 2022, 05:42:17 PM
That's interesting. It would be nice to know the logic of the traffic engineer who designed this
The answer is already upstream in this thread: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=2709015;topic=31021.0
Might as well repost it:
Quote from: Dirt Roads on February 18, 2022, 12:14:37 PM
These were common in Charleston, West Virginia back in the 1960s and 1970s. Both the upriver lanes of Southside Expressway (southbound WV-61) and Kanawha Boulevard (sometimes Alt US-60, eastbound lanes) were equipped with full signals in the left lane and thru perpetual green signals on the right lanes (with Bots Dots between the lanes) at most of the signalized intersections. It was funny to see out-of-towners pass on the left only to get snagged by the traffic signal, whereas locals just doodled in the right lane but kept moving. There were so many in a row on The Boulevard that during rush hour, it effectively created a single lane eastbound with a dedicated turn lane. By the mid-1970s, so many businesses were moving out of the West End that there was hardly any need for left turns off the Boulevard during the morning rush hour.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on October 20, 2022, 11:52:05 PM
The answer is already upstream in this thread: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=2709015;topic=31021.0
Might as well repost it:
Quote from: Dirt Roads on February 18, 2022, 12:14:37 PM
These were common in Charleston, West Virginia back in the 1960s and 1970s. Both the upriver lanes of Southside Expressway (southbound WV-61) and Kanawha Boulevard (sometimes Alt US-60, eastbound lanes) were equipped with full signals in the left lane and thru perpetual green signals on the right lanes (with Bots Dots between the lanes) at most of the signalized intersections. It was funny to see out-of-towners pass on the left only to get snagged by the traffic signal, whereas locals just doodled in the right lane but kept moving. There were so many in a row on The Boulevard that during rush hour, it effectively created a single lane eastbound with a dedicated turn lane. By the mid-1970s, so many businesses were moving out of the West End that there was hardly any need for left turns off the Boulevard during the morning rush hour.
Interesting. I thought of this thread when I came across this example, but must have missed this before. I'm envisioning that I would probably risk trying to use the left lane if it had a lot less traffic, but it would depend on the signal timing. It's also interesting because it could potentially allow more favorable green phases for the side street since one direction always keeps moving.
One just got installed right by LAX. Sepulveda/92nd now has a signal light, but only the southbound lanes on Sepulveda interact with 92nd. The northbound lanes have a perpetual green, although it's a typical signal light, not a single bulb. However, it did break down not too long ago so I did have to stop there once since it was flashing red.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on February 18, 2022, 12:14:37 PM
These were common in Charleston, West Virginia back in the 1960s and 1970s. Both the upriver lanes of Southside Expressway (southbound WV-61) and Kanawha Boulevard (sometimes Alt US-60, eastbound lanes) were equipped with full signals in the left lane and thru perpetual green signals on the right lanes (with Bots Dots between the lanes) at most of the signalized intersections. It was funny to see out-of-towners pass on the left only to get snagged by the traffic signal, whereas locals just doodled in the right lane but kept moving. There were so many in a row on The Boulevard that during rush hour, it effectively created a single lane eastbound with a dedicated turn lane. By the mid-1970s, so many businesses were moving out of the West End that there was hardly any need for left turns off the Boulevard during the morning rush hour.
Quote from: webny99 on October 21, 2022, 04:23:34 PM
Interesting. I thought of this thread when I came across this example, but must have missed this before. I'm envisioning that I would probably risk trying to use the left lane if it had a lot less traffic, but it would depend on the signal timing. It's also interesting because it could potentially allow more favorable green phases for the side street since one direction always keeps moving.
None of the ones on eastbound Kanawha Boulevard remain (most of the Boulevard has been converted to two lanes with a left turn lane at the eastbound signalized intersections).
Only one remains on southbound MacCorkle Avenue at the MoHarv entrance (now the University of Charleston):
https://www.google.com/maps/@38.3316361,-81.6163145,3a,38.8y,108.34h,85.67t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVyDMzqvICLmOaPLFmB1FbA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
I also posted a detailed listing of the original locations in a Bots Dots thread some time ago. It mentioned another location on the Southside Expressway (MacCorkle Avenue) in the northbound direction. It's still there, and it is very close to the one in your post coming off of Corridor G. It was the only one that was northbound along the river:
https://www.google.com/maps/@38.3501751,-81.6426911,3a,15.1y,308.79h,90.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sAIekyQ2npfOBb1Gpy8SGDQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
All of these had Bots Dots until sometime in the 1990s.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on October 21, 2022, 09:01:30 PM
Quote from: Dirt Roads on February 18, 2022, 12:14:37 PM
These were common in Charleston, West Virginia back in the 1960s and 1970s. Both the upriver lanes of Southside Expressway (southbound WV-61) and Kanawha Boulevard (sometimes Alt US-60, eastbound lanes) were equipped with full signals in the left lane and thru perpetual green signals on the right lanes (with Bots Dots between the lanes) at most of the signalized intersections. It was funny to see out-of-towners pass on the left only to get snagged by the traffic signal, whereas locals just doodled in the right lane but kept moving. There were so many in a row on The Boulevard that during rush hour, it effectively created a single lane eastbound with a dedicated turn lane. By the mid-1970s, so many businesses were moving out of the West End that there was hardly any need for left turns off the Boulevard during the morning rush hour.
Quote from: webny99 on October 21, 2022, 04:23:34 PM
Interesting. I thought of this thread when I came across this example, but must have missed this before. I'm envisioning that I would probably risk trying to use the left lane if it had a lot less traffic, but it would depend on the signal timing. It's also interesting because it could potentially allow more favorable green phases for the side street since one direction always keeps moving.
None of the ones on eastbound Kanawha Boulevard remain (most of the Boulevard has been converted to two lanes with a left turn lane at the eastbound signalized intersections).
Only one remains on southbound MacCorkle Avenue at the MoHarv entrance (now the University of Charleston):
https://www.google.com/maps/@38.3316361,-81.6163145,3a,38.8y,108.34h,85.67t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVyDMzqvICLmOaPLFmB1FbA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
I also posted a detailed listing of the original locations in a Bots Dots thread some time ago. It mentioned another location on the Southside Expressway (MacCorkle Avenue) in the northbound direction. It's still there, and it is very close to the one in your post coming off of Corridor G. It was the only one that was northbound along the river:
https://www.google.com/maps/@38.3501751,-81.6426911,3a,15.1y,308.79h,90.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sAIekyQ2npfOBb1Gpy8SGDQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
All of these had Bots Dots until sometime in the 1990s.
This sort of setup isn't all that rare in WV. There are three currently in the Morgantown area and had been a fourth until its associated intersection gained a fourth leg. One of the intersections, WV 7 at the I-68 westbound ramps, has no signal-controlled through lane for WV 7 eastbound traffic: https://goo.gl/maps/45KzLxVEA39vyj6s8
The intersections are good for keeping traffic flowing. They don't work where pedestrians might be crossing the road, which is why the examples along Kanawha Boulevard through Charleston proper were removed.
The reflector posts are a major upgrade from the Botts Dots, but I still wish WVDOH would do something more solid to separate the continuous through lanes from the signal-controlled ones. The setup can be a bit confusing at first for drivers on the side road not expecting it.
There were a few heading up and down the hill from Charleston Airport the last time I was there. Most of the bypass lanes were going downhill.
https://goo.gl/maps/as637zYPmJmfVRAq8
Here's another such intersection without the signal (sign in its place) in Richmond, VA
https://goo.gl/maps/9TxhcVPZpE92ZVYbA
Quote from: MASTERNC on October 24, 2022, 04:08:20 PM
There were a few heading up and down the hill from Charleston Airport the last time I was there. Most of the bypass lanes were going downhill.
https://goo.gl/maps/as637zYPmJmfVRAq8
Those had Bots Dots back in the day, as well.
Fun fact: Going northbound from there on Greenbrier Street (then) WV-14 (now WV-114), the left-turn lane for the unsignalized entrance to (then) Kanawha Airport (now Yeager Airport) had Bots Dots everywhere, separating all of the lane movements. The Bots Dots are long gone, but amazingly the airport entrance is still unsignalized (as most of the traffic on Greenbrier Street is headed for the Airport, the Air National Guard barracks, or Coonskin Park.
Quote from: Quillz on October 21, 2022, 04:44:34 PM
One just got installed right by LAX. Sepulveda/92nd now has a signal light, but only the southbound lanes on Sepulveda interact with 92nd. The northbound lanes have a perpetual green, although it's a typical signal light, not a single bulb. However, it did break down not too long ago so I did have to stop there once since it was flashing red.
For curiosity, I went to check it out on GSV:
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.9533861,-118.3964963,3a,15y,79.21h,91.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJxMOJCT_bBCxCUYsPVlgLA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
This is not a perpetual green signal. It is true that when 92nd street traffic gets a green light, only soutbhound traffic gets a red. Northbound traffic is unaffected by 92nd st vehicular traffic. But northbound traffic will get a red light, if a pedestrian pushes the button to cross Sepulveda. Northbouund traffic sees a green straight arrow, instead of a green orb, to denote that no turns are permitted onto 92nd.
I'm also curious about the 4 aspects facing 92nd. Traffic on 92nd may only turn right. Perhaps, this is a 4-aspect FYA signal that displays a green arrow when pedestrians have not pressed the button; a flashing yellow arrow to denote yielding to pedestrians who have pressed the button, a solid yellow arrow (or orb) to denote the signal transitioning to red; and a red orb which (in CA) would allow for a right turn on red.
CA usually singalizes a perpetual green with a single aspect light. This is not a perpetual green.
Here's a weird one on PA 512 southbound in Pen Argyl, PA:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1d/PA_512_sb_in_Pen_Argyl_%281%29%2C_Nov._2022.jpg/1019px-PA_512_sb_in_Pen_Argyl_%281%29%2C_Nov._2022.jpg)
The green right arrow is on all the time and the red ball at the top flashes. However, you can't actually continue straight on Main Street here per signage and past pavement markings. The flashing red ball would seem that you should stop before proceeding (the famous PennDOT "STOP except right turns") so the meaning conflicts with the signage (not that it's a standard traffic light setup anyway).
^ Wow, that is bizarre. I think that even tops the one I saw in Elizabeth, NJ the other day at Trumbull St and Dowd Ave (https://goo.gl/maps/oyZfR7pDLQC8tFfP8). It looks similar at face value, but the straight through prohibition in your example combined with the flashing red balls and permanent green arrow is next level.
Both that Pen Argyl, PA and Elizabeth, NJ examples seem to conflict with pedestrian crossings. The Elizabeth example is particular egregious as the crosswalk is painted.
Just found this one on the north side of Monee, IL: https://goo.gl/maps/D2ecZxawQKLunbjS8
Since the thread's been resurrected, here's the two I know of in NW Oregon:
"4"-way beacon (flashing red in three directions and yellow in one) with a perpetual right turn arrow in Vernonia (https://goo.gl/maps/sLJPPeUcgjVdEyfS6):
(https://i.imgur.com/12GMcuX.png)
It replaced an older setup that used a single signal for both (although 2007 GSV quality is abysmal)
(https://i.imgur.com/w6AAJQD.png)
Perpetual green for a protected left onto the St. Johns Bridge in Portland (https://goo.gl/maps/t2F362nUJkavH3FJ9):
(https://i.imgur.com/OaQssT5.png)
Quote from: kphoger on March 15, 2023, 10:15:40 AM
Just found this one on the north side of Monee, IL: https://goo.gl/maps/D2ecZxawQKLunbjS8
This is actually my first experience with this kind of signal, when I was like... four. I grew up in the area.
Quote from: CovalenceSTU on March 15, 2023, 02:25:47 PM
Since the thread's been resurrected, here's the two I know of in NW Oregon:
"4"-way beacon (flashing red in three directions and yellow in one) with a perpetual right turn arrow in Vernonia (https://goo.gl/maps/sLJPPeUcgjVdEyfS6):
(https://i.imgur.com/12GMcuX.png)
I'd say that perpetual right green arrow should instead be a flashing yellow arrow. Right turning traffic doesn't get their own lane and there's an implied yield with that right turn cut.
So if a car from the left already stopped and is proceeding through the intersection you must give right of way to them, which is
not what a green arrow means. A green arrow means you always have the right of way; in this location, that isn't always the case.
I've seen enough all-but-one way stops for it to not be unplausible that other movements are supposed to wait for the right turn traffic on that slip ramp.
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on April 05, 2022, 03:56:05 AM
Quote from: ran4sh on February 17, 2022, 01:13:19 AM
Florida seems to have decided to remove those continuous green type intersections statewide, there are some I remember in Jacksonville from the early 2010s that are not that way anymore according to GSV.
There's still at least 3 in Jacksonville along US-17 per StreetView.
US-17 (North Main Street)/Baisden Road (https://goo.gl/maps/ZzFGr7xwqJTNhhPHA) (March '21)
US-17 (North Main Street)/Imeson Park Blvd (https://goo.gl/maps/crvf6ypqP1Z8MKxu5) (February '22)
US-17 (North Main Street)/Zoo Pkwy (https://goo.gl/maps/JE7iFhW66MvL8dcn6) (January '22)
Well, if you want US 17, there's at least one northbound lane with a permanent green arrow in Palatka.
https://www.google.com/maps/@29.6685228,-81.6566204,3a,75y,349.39h,87.49t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLS3pFfauXllibGCldYjU4w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en&entry=ttu
Quote from: vdeane on June 06, 2023, 08:59:39 PM
I've seen enough all-but-one way stops for it to not be unplausible that other movements are supposed to wait for the right turn traffic on that slip ramp.
I would have assumed this was the case as well. The white painted island seems to be nothing more than just a flush island to help guide traffic through the turn, though still keeping it as part of the whole intersection. Unlike typical slip lanes that are technically separate movements that never have right-of-way.
It's not even that uncommon for slip lanes to have right-of-way over the "straight" movement. Example in
Burien, WA (https://goo.gl/maps/5EFZ8Qsi1oJQQsfq7);
Bellingham, WA (https://goo.gl/maps/S8DJyTKMY3ji6KB36). Both of these are much wider than that Oregon example, but the point is just that slip lanes can have priority.
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on April 05, 2022, 03:56:05 AM
Quote from: ran4sh on February 17, 2022, 01:13:19 AM
Florida seems to have decided to remove those continuous green type intersections statewide, there are some I remember in Jacksonville from the early 2010s that are not that way anymore according to GSV.
There's still at least 3 in Jacksonville along US-17 per StreetView.
US-17 (North Main Street)/Baisden Road (https://goo.gl/maps/ZzFGr7xwqJTNhhPHA) (March '21)
US-17 (North Main Street)/Imeson Park Blvd (https://goo.gl/maps/crvf6ypqP1Z8MKxu5) (February '22)
US-17 (North Main Street)/Zoo Pkwy (https://goo.gl/maps/JE7iFhW66MvL8dcn6) (January '22)
Hey, I found another perpetual green signal related to US 17; Westbound on US 92 at the west end of the US 17-92 overlap in Lake Alfred;
https://www.google.com/maps/@28.0758235,-81.7326612,3a,75y,230.88h,89.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s11Gz0V1XLGQtJhgzQc8OEg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en&entry=tt
Waterbury, CT has this, a full traffic light with RED and YELLOW and an eternal GREEN. But, the red nd yellow are never on. There's no need for them to be.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5495861,-73.0273133,3a,75y,357.96h,92.26t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9NfyMRXKmToIR-Ykuww7vw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en&entry=ttu
^^ That is standard operating procedure in Wisconsin.
Quote from: Mergingtraffic on August 08, 2023, 08:57:02 PM
Waterbury, CT has this, a full traffic light with RED and YELLOW and an eternal GREEN. But, the red nd yellow are never on. There's no need for them to be.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5495861,-73.0273133,3a,75y,357.96h,92.26t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9NfyMRXKmToIR-Ykuww7vw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en&entry=ttu
Louisiana has one on US 90 EB at I-310 NB. The red and yellow never operate as it's a T intersection with a one way ramp so traffic never needs to stop.
Quote from: bzakharin on August 10, 2022, 05:56:01 PM
I don't think NJ has any true examples. I've seen flashing yellow and red lights at an intersection reinforcing the stop signs, but those aren't true traffic lights. https://www.google.com/maps/@39.531376,-75.1071113,3a,75y,275.47h,87.98t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLvCJRCgy2jRUvFE34mx2lQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1
There is also an intersection with a permanent red, but it has a regular traffic light where the red is always on and the green ball replaced with a green left arrow.
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9371042,-74.9699042,3a,75y,33.71h,84.61t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1swwKmJ-q6nX2Ue9p52UGTqg!2e0!5s20160901T000000!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1
Weehawken has one on 495 West on ramp/street