Madison Area

[on_wisconsin]

A DDI is being proposed as part of the planned improvements for the new Buc-ee's in DeForest (CTH I/V and I-Triplex):
https://meetings.vi.deforest.wi.us/OnBaseAgendaOnline/Documents/ViewDocument/DOT%20MAP%20-%20for%20-%20DISCUSSION%20AND%20ACTION%20ON%20A%20REQUEST%20FOR%20A%20CONDITIONAL%20USE.pdf?meetingId=3543&documentType=Agenda&itemId=29196&publishId=21735&isSection=false

https://meetings.vi.deforest.wi.us/OnBaseAgendaOnline/Documents/ViewDocument/EX%20B%20CONCEPTUAL%20SITE%20AND%20LANDSCAPE%20-%20for%20-%20DISCUSSION%20AND%20ACTION%20ON%20A%20RE.pdf?meetingId=3543&documentType=Agenda&itemId=29196&publishId=21727&isSection=false

[SSOWorld]

A DDI is being proposed as part of the planned improvements for the new Buc-ee's in DeForest (CTH I/V and I-Triplex):
https://meetings.vi.deforest.wi.us/OnBaseAgendaOnline/Documents/ViewDocument/DOT%20MAP%20-%20for%20-%20DISCUSSION%20AND%20ACTION%20ON%20A%20REQUEST%20FOR%20A%20CONDITIONAL%20USE.pdf?meetingId=3543&documentType=Agenda&itemId=29196&publishId=21735&isSection=false

https://meetings.vi.deforest.wi.us/OnBaseAgendaOnline/Documents/ViewDocument/EX%20B%20CONCEPTUAL%20SITE%20AND%20LANDSCAPE%20-%20for%20-%20DISCUSSION%20AND%20ACTION%20ON%20A%20RE.pdf?meetingId=3543&documentType=Agenda&itemId=29196&publishId=21727&isSection=false

45 mph speed limits on the ramps???

[on_wisconsin]

45 mph speed limits on the ramps???

Yet the access road (Hwy I) in front of the store is shown as 55 mph between the proposed stop lights to be added...

[The Ghostbuster]

Any idea when this conversion to Exit 126 might be constructed? Or is this just a preliminary proposal?

[triplemultiplex]

Wow I hope Bucees is chipping in for that interchange revamp.
It's already a good location for a DDI in terms of traffic movement.  Most vehicles are getting on or off the interstate with very little "thru" traffic on CTH V. 

It's been interesting to see how much Madison has sprawled north in the last decade.  Between this exit and WI 19, there's a ton of new stuff.  WisDOT built that freeway on the east side of DeForest for US 51 and it seems like ever since then, that place is blowing up. The Town of Windsor incorporated to stave off more annexation.  One of those new giant Fleet Farms went in at WI 19.  They're building one of those ugly golf net places as one approaches the DeForest exit (totally distracts from the usually humorous ABS sign).  Big new baseball field complex in that area.

Kinda seems like DeForest is poised to be the next Sun Prairie.

[hobsini2]

Wow I hope Bucees is chipping in for that interchange revamp.
It's already a good location for a DDI in terms of traffic movement.  Most vehicles are getting on or off the interstate with very little "thru" traffic on CTH V. 

It's been interesting to see how much Madison has sprawled north in the last decade.  Between this exit and WI 19, there's a ton of new stuff.  WisDOT built that freeway on the east side of DeForest for US 51 and it seems like ever since then, that place is blowing up. The Town of Windsor incorporated to stave off more annexation.  One of those new giant Fleet Farms went in at WI 19.  They're building one of those ugly golf net places as one approaches the DeForest exit (totally distracts from the usually humorous ABS sign).  Big new baseball field complex in that area.

Kinda seems like DeForest is poised to be the next Sun Prairie.

DeForest already has become the next Sun Prairie. Pretty soon, there will not be any gap between Hwy V and Wis 19 along US 51 and the Interstate. Windsor is growing too. I would not be surprised if Windsor Rd gets an interchange with I-39/90/94 in the next few years.

[peterj920]

Wow I hope Bucees is chipping in for that interchange revamp.
It's already a good location for a DDI in terms of traffic movement.  Most vehicles are getting on or off the interstate with very little "thru" traffic on CTH V. 

It's been interesting to see how much Madison has sprawled north in the last decade.  Between this exit and WI 19, there's a ton of new stuff.  WisDOT built that freeway on the east side of DeForest for US 51 and it seems like ever since then, that place is blowing up. The Town of Windsor incorporated to stave off more annexation.  One of those new giant Fleet Farms went in at WI 19.  They're building one of those ugly golf net places as one approaches the DeForest exit (totally distracts from the usually humorous ABS sign).  Big new baseball field complex in that area.

Kinda seems like DeForest is poised to be the next Sun Prairie.

As part of the proposal Bucees agreed to pay for improvements. The bridge is new enough where it can be retrofitted for a DDI. Missouri has retrofitted many existing bridges for DDI's.

[thspfc]

Wow I hope Bucees is chipping in for that interchange revamp.
It's already a good location for a DDI in terms of traffic movement.  Most vehicles are getting on or off the interstate with very little "thru" traffic on CTH V. 

It's been interesting to see how much Madison has sprawled north in the last decade.  Between this exit and WI 19, there's a ton of new stuff.  WisDOT built that freeway on the east side of DeForest for US 51 and it seems like ever since then, that place is blowing up. The Town of Windsor incorporated to stave off more annexation.  One of those new giant Fleet Farms went in at WI 19.  They're building one of those ugly golf net places as one approaches the DeForest exit (totally distracts from the usually humorous ABS sign).  Big new baseball field complex in that area.

Kinda seems like DeForest is poised to be the next Sun Prairie.

Verona is the new Sun Prairie. DeForest is the next new Sun Prairie.

Indeed, DeForest and Windsor are planning for a lot of growth over the next couple decades. I would expect the area enclosed by Lake Rd, Vinburn Rd, WI-19, and US-51 to be completely developed by 2035. The area south of Windsor Rd and west of Portage Rd is already getting there, with the exception of the Token Creek conservancy.

The conservancy will prevent Windsor and Sun Prairie from completely connecting, but it will also make it difficult to expand WI-19 along the two-lane section through Token Creek. The Portage Rd intersection is usually a long wait during afternoon rush hour. A roundabout might work if they can get the space for it.

[on_wisconsin]

"Madison could get 2 new interstate interchanges in I-39/90/94 Madison-Dells project
John Gettings, Wisconsin State Journal

The Interstate 39/90/94 67-mile corridor from near Madison to the Wisconsin Dells area is under review for a potential major project in a few years, and alternatives for each interchange are now available for feedback.
...
"We're really trying to develop long-term solutions to the needs of the existing interstate,"  said Daniel Schave, the department's Major Studies supervisor leading the study.
...
The two potential future highway exits will be on Interstate 94 at Milwaukee Street and at Hoepker Road off of I-39/90/94 just north of the major interchange with Highway 151. Increased population and employees in the area of those two intersections creates the potential for the additional interchanges.

Schave said that the department is looking at three alternatives for the mainline interstate itself. A potential managed lane (an additional left lane open and closed to traffic based on time intervals and traffic flow which is used as extra shoulder space when closed) from Madison to near Portage where I-90/94 splits from I-39 is a possibility. Another option includes adding a regular traffic lane along the entire corridor. Pavement and bridge replacement is being explored as well.
...
DDIs are being explored at I-39/90/94's interchanges with Highway 51 and Highway V in Dane County, as well as I-90/94's interchanges with Highway 12 and Highway 23 in Lake Delton..."
...
https://madison.com/news/local/madison-could-get-2-new-interstate-interchanges-in-i-39-90-94-madison-dells-project/article_9299c73e-a722-5811-80ea-4a2df5c36ab7.html
...
WisDOT study site:
https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/sw/399094/public.aspx

Preliminary Alternatives:
https://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/projects/by-region/sw/399094/interchangealternatives-april23.pdf

[The Ghostbuster]

I have pretty much liked what I saw with the Interstate 39/90/94 study, although I wish they had kept it ongoing and not temporarily cancelled it in 2017.

[triplemultiplex]

Ooh we have alternatives now.  This will be fun.

Gonna start with the East Town Interchange because I see two alternatives here that are non-starters.  There is way too much commuter traffic continuing on East Wash between the Isthmus and Sun Prairie to force that traffic to exit at a diamond and weave its way under a system interchange between US 151 and the interstate.  I know WisDOT has been a fan of trying to separate system and surface traffic like that at places like Beloit, Green Bay and Wausau, but that is NOT going to work in this location.  Therefore only their alternatives 1 and 2 are viable.

Next I'll note my surprise that WisDOT sees the need for collector/distributor roadways between the Badger Interchange and the East Town Interchange since that's a fairly long distance, but I guess.  Alternative 1 for the Badger interchange is better because it uses less land. Big fan of moving all the left exits to the right.  The existing left-hand ramps are a big disruption to the flow of things, in my experience.

I do not support the addition of interchanges to the Triplex at Hoepker Rd or at I-94 and the east end of Milwaukee St.  Those will only encourage more sprawl and create more future issues with traffic merging on the freeway.  These freeways are to move vehicles thru Madison, not to subsidize real estate development.  I don't want to see this corridor clogged with more interchanges.  There are plenty as is.  The Hoepker Rd one is particularly egregious since it's so close to US 51.  Nuts to that.  I like that it's a few miles between exits as one drives by Madison.

Some of those alternatives for WI 19 are overkill.  A flyover NB->WB?  I don't see that happening.  Same deal for that U-ramp bullcrap.  I think I'm on board with the idea of switching the grading so WI 19 can bridge the railroad.

The DDI's at US 51 and County V are inevitable, I feel.  Good on them

I'd really like to see County CS turned into a diamond, just like they're doing to WI 60 right now.  The Pilot at that exit is the reason.  It'll make it easier for trucks to enter and exit the freeway to not deal with a loop.

Cascade Interchange, alternative 2 is better.  No need for such a high speed, expensive ramp from EB to NB in Alt 1.

WI 33's two interchanges with the freeways, go with the diamonds again.  Though I might tighten up the I-39 diamond so it impacts fewer wetlands.

At the Dells Parkway, I'd favor retaining the existing parclo but with the addition of a distributor ramp NB->WB that bypasses the ramp terminal signal at the south end of the interchange.  Just like how US 14 hits the Beltline in Madison.

Finally, I think the split diamond is the way to go at WI 13/County H.  The other option impacts protected DNR land along Hulbert Creek, a class 1 trout stream.  I've actually fished that creek just upstream from the interstate and the existing culvert under the ramps is somewhat of a barrier to fish passage from what I could see. 

[SEWIGuy]

I will also say that I like the Milwaukee Avenue extension and interchange with I-94 now that I have seen it.  Makes a ton of sense.

[triplemultiplex]

I don't like the MKE Street interchange.  That will only be a catalyst for more inefficient land uses and make the city sprawl east faster.  Plus look at a how much it complicates and expensifies the Badger Interchange concepts.  That's tens of millions of dollars worth of more ramps which will function as a subsidy to all the real estate speculators trying to turn more of our farmland into ugly McMansions.

Sadly, it's a foregone conclusion that it's going in, I fear.  They went ahead and built the overpasses for this interchange 10+ years ago when they expanded I-94 to 3x3.
The only way I'd support this new interchange is if the developers and speculators pay for it.
Bucee's is willing to pay to upgrade the CTH V interchange, so that only seems fair.  And that includes all the extra braiding ramps that will be needed.

Worse is the option here that tries to handle this new interchange with only aux lanes between it and the Badger.  That's going to result in some wild weaving as commuters enter from the new interchange and try and dart across multiple lanes to get to where they're going at the Badger. 

Between the cost of building it without generating weaving problems, the weaving problems that will result if it isn't built to negate them, and the negative land use impacts, the best alternative at Milwaukee Street is No Build.  This is an unneeded interchange and is literally using induced demand to justify its construction.

[mgk920]

Even though many of us will be gone and forgotten by then, The US 12 interchange at the Dells/Lake Delton will have to be revisited a decade or two after this latest round of work is complete, for upgrading to a full free-flow freeway to freeway connection for the through traffic with provisions for upgraded surface road/street connections for the local crowd.

I also see a glaring need for local surface connections between WI 78 to the southwest and county and local roads to the north and east at the Cascade interchange.  My sense is that the current interchange there was done 'on the cheap' just to get the high traffic interstate standard connections done and open when it was built.  Yes, I have done numerous mindless scribblings on this one over the years.

The East Town interchange ideas are intriguing, too.

I am very much looking forward to further ongoing discussions on this project.   

Mike

[triplemultiplex]

I also see a glaring need for local surface connections between WI 78 to the southwest and county and local roads to the north and east at the Cascade interchange.

The two alternatives WisDOT has seem to address this by creating a continuous Cascade Mountain Rd under I-39 and turning north toward CTH U.  In effect reusing the pre-interstate alignment of WI 78.  The new Cascade Mountain Rd would intersect WI 78 between its diamond interchange with I-90/94 and its half interchange with I-39.

[SEWIGuy]

I don't like the MKE Street interchange.  That will only be a catalyst for more inefficient land uses and make the city sprawl east faster.  Plus look at a how much it complicates and expensifies the Badger Interchange concepts.  That's tens of millions of dollars worth of more ramps which will function as a subsidy to all the real estate speculators trying to turn more of our farmland into ugly McMansions.

Good.  Dane County needs housing more than it needs farmland.

[triplemultiplex]

Affordable housing, not overpriced, oversized, cheaply built sprawl on the periphery.
People need housing, not debt slavery.

[SEWIGuy]

Affordable housing, not overpriced, oversized, cheaply built sprawl on the periphery.
People need housing, not debt slavery.

People have the free will to enter into the transactions that they wish.

[westerninterloper]

Affordable housing, not overpriced, oversized, cheaply built sprawl on the periphery.
People need housing, not debt slavery.

People have the free will to enter into the transactions that they wish.

AKA, "Both the destitute and the filthy rich have the right to live under a bridge."

[thspfc]

I don't like the MKE Street interchange.  That will only be a catalyst for more inefficient land uses and make the city sprawl east faster.  Plus look at a how much it complicates and expensifies the Badger Interchange concepts.  That's tens of millions of dollars worth of more ramps which will function as a subsidy to all the real estate speculators trying to turn more of our farmland into ugly McMansions.

There's plenty of higher-density, lower COL development happening along the far east edge of the city.

If there's one thing Wisconsin has no shortage of, it's farmland. Losing some farmland near Madison is not a concern when literally 40% of the state is farmland.

Sadly, it's a foregone conclusion that it's going in, I fear.  They went ahead and built the overpasses for this interchange 10+ years ago when they expanded I-94 to 3x3.
The only way I'd support this new interchange is if the developers and speculators pay for it.

We all pay taxes for stuff we don't use. Why did my tax dollars help fund the I-94 Racine/Kenosha County upgrade, even though I never use it? This interchange would be helpful for a lot of people.

Between the cost of building it without generating weaving problems, the weaving problems that will result if it isn't built to negate them, and the negative land use impacts, the best alternative at Milwaukee Street is No Build.  This is an unneeded interchange and is literally using induced demand to justify its construction.

It would be about a mile between the eastern merge point of the Badger and the off ramp to Milwaukee St. Is that not long enough?

[SEWIGuy]

Affordable housing, not overpriced, oversized, cheaply built sprawl on the periphery.
People need housing, not debt slavery.

People have the free will to enter into the transactions that they wish.

AKA, "Both the destitute and the filthy rich have the right to live under a bridge."

Even if the only housing that is build is "overpriced, oversized, cheaply built sprawl," that's better for Dane County's housing issues than nothing.  Some people like that style of house - and it's not WIDOT's responsibility to also determine local land use anyway.

[SSOWorld]

I'm sure that CTH V will be upgraded as soon as Buc-ee's starts building.

[mgk920]

Affordable housing, not overpriced, oversized, cheaply built sprawl on the periphery.
People need housing, not debt slavery.

Many to most of the crystal ball gazing development related discussions that I have read and seen in recent years seem to agree that as the Baby Boomers and more recent demographic groups move on and die off that the younger crowd that will be replacing them will be progressively far less interested as a whole in that type of residential, the the point that by the later part of the century (we will pretty much all be long gong and forgotten by then, though), many of these suburban style single family tract neighborhoods will have become very slummy and run down.  Yes, the poor build quality of many of these newer houses will be a factor in this.  Thus, I'm not too terribly worried about this for the long term.  I would design the streets to make the needed connections, but not specifically set them to encourage the development.

Mike

[SEWIGuy]

How can anyone project what housing preferences will be in 50 years?

[The Ghostbuster]

Be careful when making future predictions, no matter how educated you are. One is far more likely to be wrong than to be right. And the farther out your prediction is, the more likely it will be inaccurate. I always take future predictions with a grain of salt, and usually don't make them myself.