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Author Topic: Traffic signal  (Read 869654 times)

JoePCool14

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #4850 on: December 05, 2022, 11:03:48 PM »

In Kaluga, Russia, there is a button-actuated traffic signal, but for cars..

The sign says: Attention! Press the button for the green light to turn on.
https://www.google.com/maps/@54.5209373,36.1963995,3a,16.2y,291.27h,87.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9NLdCVeuxvxkDHxIuepZXA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Now that's interesting. I'm trying to find a scenario where something like this would genuinely be more beneficial than a typical in-pavement or camera actuator.

I actually just thought of one potentially useful case. A button might be easier for private driveways that are signalized at an intersection. That way if the homeowner needs to change the surface of their driveway, they don't need to replace the coil. And they'd get used to pressing it as well, so less confusion.
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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #4851 on: December 06, 2022, 12:47:44 AM »

Old Caltrans mast arm.
https://goo.gl/maps/E89UXfEtUWrb9CgU9

Though Iím quite curious to the signal head on the mast arm.  Each are independently round and not square.

From my layman's perspective, they appear to be Econolite Bullseye signals.

roadman65

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #4852 on: December 06, 2022, 04:47:08 AM »

https://goo.gl/maps/q95kij3w7akRQVVL6
This is an odd two section signal in Ocean City.

Here is a CA rarity to not only see a horizontal mount, but a straight mono tube mast arm in Los Angeles.
https://goo.gl/maps/pQGhAQ2ZHHDoX1eW6
« Last Edit: December 06, 2022, 05:01:15 AM by roadman65 »
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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #4853 on: December 06, 2022, 05:59:13 AM »

In Kaluga, Russia, there is a button-actuated traffic signal, but for cars..

The sign says: Attention! Press the button for the green light to turn on.
https://www.google.com/maps/@54.5209373,36.1963995,3a,16.2y,291.27h,87.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9NLdCVeuxvxkDHxIuepZXA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Now that's interesting. I'm trying to find a scenario where something like this would genuinely be more beneficial than a typical in-pavement or camera actuator.

I actually just thought of one potentially useful case. A button might be easier for private driveways that are signalized at an intersection. That way if the homeowner needs to change the surface of their driveway, they don't need to replace the coil. And they'd get used to pressing it as well, so less confusion.
Or a vehicle parked in what would be the detection zone wouldn't trigger the signal either.

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #4854 on: December 06, 2022, 12:06:53 PM »

Huh. The first time I clicked on the link it was facing the opposite direction, but the second time I clicked it was facing the right direction! Never had that problem before.

Trippy!  It just did it to me too.  I tried four times:  the first time, it faced the wrong direction;  the other three, the right direction.
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roadfro

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #4855 on: December 06, 2022, 12:30:39 PM »

https://goo.gl/maps/q95kij3w7akRQVVL6
This is an odd two section signal in Ocean City.

This is bizarre. First, it doesn't even need signalization since there's no pedestrian crossing (although one could argue that it could be beneficial to have a ped crossing here to connect the corners). But second, if you're going to signalize it and channelized with no potential vehicular conflict, you don't need the solid red indications.
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RestrictOnTheHanger

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #4856 on: December 06, 2022, 10:10:33 PM »

https://goo.gl/maps/q95kij3w7akRQVVL6
This is an odd two section signal in Ocean City.

This is bizarre. First, it doesn't even need signalization since there's no pedestrian crossing (although one could argue that it could be beneficial to have a ped crossing here to connect the corners). But second, if you're going to signalize it and channelized with no potential vehicular conflict, you don't need the solid red indications.

The only plausible explanation for this would be the drawbridge after the turn, where maybe the green arrow disappears when the bridge is up. But even then, a standard RYG arrow signal would be way less confusing.
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roadfro

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #4857 on: December 07, 2022, 11:29:15 AM »

https://goo.gl/maps/q95kij3w7akRQVVL6
This is an odd two section signal in Ocean City.

This is bizarre. First, it doesn't even need signalization since there's no pedestrian crossing (although one could argue that it could be beneficial to have a ped crossing here to connect the corners). But second, if you're going to signalize it and channelized with no potential vehicular conflict, you don't need the solid red indications.

The only plausible explanation for this would be the drawbridge after the turn, where maybe the green arrow disappears when the bridge is up. But even then, a standard RYG arrow signal would be way less confusing.

Maybe... but even then there's a separate drawbridge signal and plenty of storage on the bridge downstream of this right turn.

A standard RYG arrow signal would be good here as an alternative...and would allow for pedestrian crossings.
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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #4858 on: December 09, 2022, 02:48:54 PM »

I don't understand why they would have the red ord and green up arrow illuminated at the same time. Is that normal there?

Took a trip to London earlier in the week and saw some more strange circular red and green thru arrow instances in Central London:

1. This one is for a protected only right turn, starts off with circular red and green thru arrow, then when the protected right is active, the opposing traffic is held with a red and the side with the protected right has a circular green. Not sure why they wouldn't use a green right arrow here for the protected phase. Believe this is the normal configuration for a protected only right turn...

2. This one is for a Leading Bicycle (Not sure about Pedestrian) Interval... the signal starts with a green bicycle for cyclists, green thru arrow for the thru traffic and a circular red for the left turn for motor vehicles, then goes to a circular green for the motor vehicle traffic permissive phase still with a green bicycle signal for cyclists.
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BuildTheRussian

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #4859 on: December 12, 2022, 05:27:06 AM »

I don't understand why they would have the red ord and green up arrow illuminated at the same time. Is that normal there?
Took a trip to London earlier in the week and saw some more strange circular red and green thru arrow instances in Central London:
London has a very specific approach to traffic signals. These things that may be unusual to you, are actually standard practice there.
The most striking thing, is that unlike the rest of the UK, the traffic signal heads don't have white borders around them. This is mainly because the TSRGD only requires white borders on roads where the speed limit is 40 mph or above, so that allows TfL to save a little money on a signal head. Another reason is to save a few millimeters from a traffic island, which as it turns out makes a big difference.

1. This one is for a protected only right turn, starts off with circular red and green thru arrow, then when the protected right is active, the opposing traffic is held with a red and the side with the protected right has a circular green. Not sure why they wouldn't use a green right arrow here for the protected phase. Believe this is the normal configuration for a protected only right turn...
This is common in London. It's likely that this traffic light is second-hand, either being a leftover, or recycled from another intersection. Installing an arrow-shaped filter would mean that TfL would need to spend extra money, which is something that they won't do if they have the choice not to, which they do.
Protected-only right turns in the UK are known as "separately-signalled right turns", and much like in the US, they are avoided if possible.
2. This one is for a Leading Bicycle (Not sure about Pedestrian) Interval... the signal starts with a green bicycle for cyclists, green thru arrow for the thru traffic and a circular red for the left turn for motor vehicles, then goes to a circular green for the motor vehicle traffic permissive phase still with a green bicycle signal for cyclists.
This is known as "early release". It's most definitely not a LPI, because turning vehicle conflicts with pedestrians are not permitted in the UK.
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roadman65

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #4860 on: December 23, 2022, 05:29:12 PM »

https://goo.gl/maps/RYU9DgKPDYjGU2hx7
I see Anderson uses double red signals on CA Route 273.
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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #4861 on: December 27, 2022, 09:56:37 PM »

Well I went out to see some other red/yellow pedestrian signals today with some time off from work.

I discovered two new signals, and wanted to check them out.

The first one is right in front of St. Annís church on Lynn street in Peabody. This one wasnít flashing green and red for some reason, and only rested in solid green for cars and solid red for pedestrians. When I activated the signal, the signal turned yellow for 6.5 seconds and then red and yellow. The signal then went to an all red, and then returned to what it rested in. The strange thing was that when I crossed the street here, a driver rear ended the first car stopped in line. I guess thatís why itís important to not over signalize pedestrian crossings. Iím sure that guy had no idea the light was even there.

The second signal I checked out was at the corner of Wilson and Jefferson in Salem. New signs were placed for pedestrians indicating to push the button, and cross on Red and Yellow.

Signal compliance was abysmal. The red and yellow should mean a super red. No entering or exiting the intersection. No turn on red. And if youíre in the middle of the intersection to turn left, stay there (funny they assumed any MA driver would do this XD ). Basically no one waited. Some people got the message that it was a red light, but no one I saw picked up that it was a super red.

The placement on these signals is also pretty bad. Iíd like to see how theyíd do with better signage and placement, but theyíre not MUTCD compliant, so it looks like itís the end of the road for these legends. Too bad.
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Roadgeek, railfan, and crossing signal fan. From Massachusetts, and in high school. Youtube is my website link. Loves FYAs signals. Interest in Bicycle Infrastructure. Owns one Leotech Pedestrian Signal, and a Safetran Type 1 E bell.

jakeroot

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #4862 on: December 29, 2022, 12:50:47 AM »

Regarding the "not allowed to move" concept of the red/yellow pedestrian light, that would make sense for cars that haven't yet crossed the stop line, but for those who were beyond the stop line or waiting to turn left, I would have thought finishing your maneuver/exiting the intersection would still be permitted, if not legally required. Seems odd that a signal could apply to those already beyond the stop/limit line, at least to the effect of requiring drivers to make a full stop.

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #4863 on: December 29, 2022, 08:42:08 AM »

Regarding the "not allowed to move" concept of the red/yellow pedestrian light, that would make sense for cars that haven't yet crossed the stop line, but for those who were beyond the stop line or waiting to turn left, I would have thought finishing your maneuver/exiting the intersection would still be permitted, if not legally required. Seems odd that a signal could apply to those already beyond the stop/limit line, at least to the effect of requiring drivers to make a full stop.

Possibly, but when itís a pedestrian only signal, I think that policy makes sense.
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Roadgeek, railfan, and crossing signal fan. From Massachusetts, and in high school. Youtube is my website link. Loves FYAs signals. Interest in Bicycle Infrastructure. Owns one Leotech Pedestrian Signal, and a Safetran Type 1 E bell.

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #4864 on: December 29, 2022, 07:38:51 PM »

Isn't having the red and yellow lit at the same time (as well as flashing green lights) not permitted by the MUTCD? Yeah I know (LOL); it's Massachusetts.
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Amtrakprod

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #4865 on: December 29, 2022, 09:17:57 PM »

Isn't having the red and yellow lit at the same time (as well as flashing green lights) not permitted by the MUTCD? Yeah I know (LOL); it's Massachusetts.

Haha, they say itís grandfathered in (LOL)
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Roadgeek, railfan, and crossing signal fan. From Massachusetts, and in high school. Youtube is my website link. Loves FYAs signals. Interest in Bicycle Infrastructure. Owns one Leotech Pedestrian Signal, and a Safetran Type 1 E bell.

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #4866 on: December 30, 2022, 10:45:06 AM »

Signal compliance was abysmal. ... Basically no one waited. Some people got the message that it was a red light, but no one I saw picked up that it was a super red.

Haha, they say itís grandfathered in (LOL)

It seems to me, something should only be grandfathered in if locals actually understand what it means.  Apparently, that's not the case.
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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #4867 on: December 30, 2022, 07:32:26 PM »

I'm guessing "grandfathered", in this case, just means "no money has been set aside to replace it".

I love weird signals, but this one might be a little too weird to me. With the odd requirement to basically slam on your brakes, to pedestrians somehow needing to understand that red and yellow means "go"? lol. Definitely a signal design that will forever need signage (so no better than a HAWK...that definitely isn't a compliment).
« Last Edit: December 30, 2022, 07:35:02 PM by jakeroot »
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Amtrakprod

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #4868 on: December 31, 2022, 07:55:27 PM »

I'm guessing "grandfathered", in this case, just means "no money has been set aside to replace it".

I love weird signals, but this one might be a little too weird to me. With the odd requirement to basically slam on your brakes, to pedestrians somehow needing to understand that red and yellow means "go"? lol. Definitely a signal design that will forever need signage (so no better than a HAWK...that definitely isn't a compliment).

Where does it require you to slam on your breaks ? The signal turns yellow first, before going red and yellow. The stop in the middle of the intersection requirement is really for turning vehicles clearing the intersection, to prevent them for finishing that turn. However, most non pedestrian only RY signals give an all red, before going R and Y.

These signals will probably all be replaced soon so I doubt signage would be a good investment. Many cities have already removed the RY, but they often donít add no turn on red signs after doing that, which is upsetting in a pedestrian perspective.
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Roadgeek, railfan, and crossing signal fan. From Massachusetts, and in high school. Youtube is my website link. Loves FYAs signals. Interest in Bicycle Infrastructure. Owns one Leotech Pedestrian Signal, and a Safetran Type 1 E bell.

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #4869 on: December 31, 2022, 08:51:08 PM »

I'm guessing "grandfathered", in this case, just means "no money has been set aside to replace it".

I love weird signals, but this one might be a little too weird to me. With the odd requirement to basically slam on your brakes, to pedestrians somehow needing to understand that red and yellow means "go"? lol. Definitely a signal design that will forever need signage (so no better than a HAWK...that definitely isn't a compliment).

Where does it require you to slam on your breaks ? The signal turns yellow first, before going red and yellow. The stop in the middle of the intersection requirement is really for turning vehicles clearing the intersection, to prevent them for finishing that turn. However, most non pedestrian only RY signals give an all red, before going R and Y.

These signals will probably all be replaced soon so I doubt signage would be a good investment. Many cities have already removed the RY, but they often donít add no turn on red signs after doing that, which is upsetting in a pedestrian perspective.

Oh oh, gotcha. I misunderstood your description of the rule, I thought the rules prevented drivers from crossing the crosswalk after it goes to yellow-red; normally, as long as you cross the limit line, you can clear the intersection regardless of the state of the signal. I thought you were saying before that you absolutely couldn't, ergo, drivers had to be especially cautious not to accidentally enter when it was yellow-red.

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #4870 on: January 01, 2023, 12:53:16 AM »

I'm guessing "grandfathered", in this case, just means "no money has been set aside to replace it".

I love weird signals, but this one might be a little too weird to me. With the odd requirement to basically slam on your brakes, to pedestrians somehow needing to understand that red and yellow means "go"? lol. Definitely a signal design that will forever need signage (so no better than a HAWK...that definitely isn't a compliment).

Where does it require you to slam on your breaks ? The signal turns yellow first, before going red and yellow. The stop in the middle of the intersection requirement is really for turning vehicles clearing the intersection, to prevent them for finishing that turn. However, most non pedestrian only RY signals give an all red, before going R and Y.

These signals will probably all be replaced soon so I doubt signage would be a good investment. Many cities have already removed the RY, but they often donít add no turn on red signs after doing that, which is upsetting in a pedestrian perspective.

Oh oh, gotcha. I misunderstood your description of the rule, I thought the rules prevented drivers from crossing the crosswalk after it goes to yellow-red; normally, as long as you cross the limit line, you can clear the intersection regardless of the state of the signal. I thought you were saying before that you absolutely couldn't, ergo, drivers had to be especially cautious not to accidentally enter when it was yellow-red.

Thatís on me for quoting the MassDOT explanation. The concern was mostly about drivers exiting the intersection not checking for pedestrians crossing.
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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #4871 on: January 03, 2023, 05:37:14 AM »

Two interesting things I recently found on Google Street View:

1. It appears like both red and green lights were lit at the same time at this traffic signal. However, I think it's likely the Street View car snapped a photo really fast and the signal didn't have any all-red clearance time. Regardless of the situation, it is a bizarre thing to see.

2. These new traffic signals in Houston look amazing! I like how futuristic the design looks with the oval backplates. It reminds me on traffic signal designs I've seen internationally. Also it's interesting to see street suffixes spelled out in full - especially "boulevard".
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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #4872 on: January 03, 2023, 09:08:03 AM »

2. These new traffic signals in Houston look amazing! I like how futuristic the design looks with the oval backplates. It reminds me on traffic signal designs I've seen internationally. Also it's interesting to see street suffixes spelled out in full - especially "boulevard".

I just like that they finally are using supplemental signals on the corners. Texas historically does not use supplemental traffic signals, only in downtown areas of some major cities if I recall correctly.

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #4873 on: January 03, 2023, 12:09:46 PM »

Two interesting things I recently found on Google Street View:

1. It appears like both red and green lights were lit at the same time at this traffic signal. However, I think it's likely the Street View car snapped a photo really fast and the signal didn't have any all-red clearance time. Regardless of the situation, it is a bizarre thing to see.

2. These new traffic signals in Houston look amazing! I like how futuristic the design looks with the oval backplates. It reminds me on traffic signal designs I've seen internationally. Also it's interesting to see street suffixes spelled out in full - especially "boulevard".

Thank god for those supplemental in Texas... I think every state should have them everywhere. I'm not a huge fan of the oval backplates though, I feel like they look kinda tacky and weird now and won't age well in the future. The New Mexico installation is really old, but it feels timeless... like the Buick Century!
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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #4874 on: January 03, 2023, 04:01:04 PM »

2. These new traffic signals in Houston look amazing! I like how futuristic the design looks with the oval backplates. It reminds me on traffic signal designs I've seen internationally. Also it's interesting to see street suffixes spelled out in full - especially "boulevard".

I saw those signals (before the bus lane addition) in-person when I was an 11-year old. I hated them then, and I hate them now.
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