Virginia

[AlexandriaVA]

You can't ignore the fact that Davis was the head of state for the Confederacy. That is a class unto itself, at least symbolically.

I say rename it Richmond Highway. It's accurate and useful, as serves much more of a purpose than commemorating someone who wasn't even a Virginian.

[1995hoo]

That's irrelevant to my feeling that the renaming fad is a waste of money that could be better used for other purposes (by way of example only, fixing potholes).

[AlexandriaVA]

Wouldn't this cost be borne by Alexandria taxpayers?

[1995hoo]

Still a waste of money.

[AlexandriaVA]

I think we can all agree that the unenforced HOV lanes on "US Highway 1" in Old Town are a waste of money. 

[1995hoo]

I think we can all agree that the unenforced HOV lanes on "US Highway 1" in Old Town are a waste of money. 

I saw HOV enforcement on there last week, actually. Seen it a fair number of times this summer. The guy in front of us got pulled over the most recent time.

[AlexandriaVA]

VSP or Alexandria police?

[1995hoo]

Alexandria. Don't think I've ever seen VSP on there. Might have been nice to see ANY cop last Friday morning when a woman was going the wrong way on the northbound one-way portion just below Duke Street.

My understanding is that HOV lane (and the one on Washington Street) is different from the other Northern Virginia HOV lanes and that, among other things, the Clean Special Fuel exemption doesn't apply.

[cpzilliacus]

Alexandria. Don't think I've ever seen VSP on there. Might have been nice to see ANY cop last Friday morning when a woman was going the wrong way on the northbound one-way portion just below Duke Street.

Only place I see the VSP in the City of Alexandria is on the short section of the Capital Beltway within city limits, and on  I-395 between Turkeycock Run and Shirlington Circle.  I have never seen them doing HOV enforcement on the arterial HOV lanes on U.S. 1 and Va. 400.

My understanding is that HOV lane (and the one on Washington Street) is different from the other Northern Virginia HOV lanes and that, among other things, the Clean Special Fuel exemption doesn't apply.

The Clean Special Fuel exemption is going to be gone from all HOV lanes in Northern Virginia with the possible exception of the Dulles Toll Road in the next few years.

[1995hoo]

....

The Clean Special Fuel exemption is going to be gone from all HOV lanes in Northern Virginia with the possible exception of the Dulles Toll Road in the next few years.

I know. Last night on the way home I was speculating on how many people who have those license plates will drop them once the exemption is gone. No reason to pay $25 a year extra then. For now, the HOV exemption is worth it (if you qualify, obviously; they capped the number of eligible plates for I-395 and later for I-66).

[cpzilliacus]

I know. Last night on the way home I was speculating on how many people who have those license plates will drop them once the exemption is gone. No reason to pay $25 a year extra then. For now, the HOV exemption is worth it (if you qualify, obviously; they capped the number of eligible plates for I-395 and later for I-66).

From a transportation perspective, these exemptions are a bad idea.  I give Virginia credit for going away from giving capacity away to owners of Prius cars and instead requiring drivers that do not comply with the HOV requirement to pay a toll (note that I am somewhat indifferent about using a private concession partner like Transurban instead of having VDOT in charge of the HOV/Toll lanes).

The "Clean Fuel" vehicles have degraded the performance of the HOV lanes (probably more on I-66 than on I-95/I-395) and thus reduced the incentive to car-pool or take public transit. 

Nor is it just a problem in the U.S. 

Back in 2013, Norway allowed zero-emission vehicles (mostly Teslas, and Nissan Leafs from what I understand) to use the bus-only lanes, and it led to a significant degradation in bus service.  But they have since cancelled that exemption.

Wall Street Journal article from 2014: In Oslo, Electric Cars Drive Bus Operators Crazy - Government Incentives Fuel Sales of EVs in Norway, but Transit Workers Gripe About Vehicles in Their Lane

TheLocal.No (2015): Electric cars lose right to drive in Oslo bus lanes

Norway is to strip electric cars of their nationwide right to drive in bus lanes, removing a key incentive that has helped turn the Nordic country into the world's leader for electric vehicles.

According to Norway's NRK, the Conservative, Liberal and Christian Democrat parties agreed  in a meeting on Tuesday night to end the nationwide right for electric vehicles to drive in bus lanes, and also to end their exemptions from road tolls and parking charges.

The agreement instead gives local authorities the right to decide whether electric cars can hold onto these incentives, a change likely to mean that they are stripped away in major cities such as Oslo and Bergen.

[AlexandriaVA]

That's irrelevant to my feeling that the renaming fad is a waste of money that could be better used for other purposes (by way of example only, fixing potholes).

Not beaint a dead horse, but I stumbled across the data on estimates of the cost of sign replacement. I like how they break it out per street:

https://www.alexandriava.gov/uploadedFiles/manager/info/SignCosts-2015.pdf

Looks like Jefferson Davis highway sign replacements would cost about $27,000, and all a hypothetical replacement of all Confederate-related road names (I dont' think that was ever seriously discussed though) would cost $171,150.

[froggie]

$27K is a rounding error compared to what VDOT's Northern Virginia District usually spends in a year.  There's not much that you could get for $27K if applied to other road purposes.

[AlexandriaVA]

Even fundraising by private citizens could probably cover that pretty quickly.

[oscar]

Not beaint a dead horse, but I stumbled across the data on estimates of the cost of sign replacement. I like how they break it out per street:

https://www.alexandriava.gov/uploadedFiles/manager/info/SignCosts-2015.pdf

Looks like Jefferson Davis highway sign replacements would cost about $27,000, and all a hypothetical replacement of all Confederate-related road names (I dont' think that was ever seriously discussed though) would cost $171,150.

Of course, that's only the direct cost of changing signs. Address changes and related costs for other parts of the government, businesses, residences (especially along streets other than the Jefferson Davis, though there might be some with that in their addresses), and also maps and mapping software, were not included. My guess is that those extra costs could easily be far higher.

The extra costs might be lower along the Jeff Davis than for other streets, if businesses were embarrassed to use the Jeff Davis name, and went out of their way to use side street addresses instead. Or the ones that did use Jeff Davis addresses wouldn't mind changing to a less controversial name. People who would have to change addresses on less obviously Confederate-named streets like Beauregard St. or Hume Ave. would more likely consider the name change to be a costly burden than a blessing.

[1995hoo]

I know. Last night on the way home I was speculating on how many people who have those license plates will drop them once the exemption is gone. No reason to pay $25 a year extra then. For now, the HOV exemption is worth it (if you qualify, obviously; they capped the number of eligible plates for I-395 and later for I-66).

From a transportation perspective, these exemptions are a bad idea. ....

....

Sure, but at the same time, I'm certainly not going to condemn people eligible for the exemptions for taking full advantage of them. My point was simply that the only real reason to have the "Clean Special Fuel" plate is the HOV access. Without that, it's essentially a waste of $25 a year.

I must say the people who bought hybrids because of the exemption are, on the whole, better off when it ends than people with other alternative-fuel vehicles. I used to work with two guys who lived in Prince William County–one moved to Clifton later–who owned CNG-powered vehicles specifically to get the exemption. They said you had to refill the tank at least twice a week, but the time saved using the HOV made up for that. They both said without the HOV exemption those vehicles would be more of a hassle than it's worth because they're not practical for anything other than commuting due to range issues. Compare that to the hybrids, which don't have range issues and are generally usable just like any other car for most purposes unless maybe you own an original Honda Insight or a CR-Z, although if you bought one of those you'd likely have bought some other two-seater had you not gotten the hybrid. The CR-Z had a niche market as one of the few hybrids to offer a manual transmission.

(My former colleagues both said they were regularly confronted by busybodies angry at them for "illegally" putting the CF plates on cars that weren't hybrids. The exemption was never limited to hybrids, and to make it more complicated, not all hybrid models were eligible for the exemption.)

[cpzilliacus]

From a transportation perspective, these exemptions are a bad idea. ....

....

Sure, but at the same time, I'm certainly not going to condemn people eligible for the exemptions for taking full advantage of them. My point was simply that the only real reason to have the "Clean Special Fuel" plate is the HOV access. Without that, it's essentially a waste of $25 a year.

I am not condemning the people for taking advantage of a great deal either. 

As a former boss of mine put it, "people make rational decisions."

That $25 a year can be spent in less than a week paying tolls to use the existing Transurban HOV/Toll lanes on I-95 and I-395 even  if they  are only used during the morning or afternoon (but not both) peak commute periods.

I must say the people who bought hybrids because of the exemption are, on the whole, better off when it ends than people with other alternative-fuel vehicles. I used to work with two guys who lived in Prince William County–one moved to Clifton later–who owned CNG-powered vehicles specifically to get the exemption. They said you had to refill the tank at least twice a week, but the time saved using the HOV made up for that. They both said without the HOV exemption those vehicles would be more of a hassle than it's worth because they're not practical for anything other than commuting due to range issues. Compare that to the hybrids, which don't have range issues and are generally usable just like any other car for most purposes unless maybe you own an original Honda Insight or a CR-Z, although if you bought one of those you'd likely have bought some other two-seater had you not gotten the hybrid. The CR-Z had a niche market as one of the few hybrids to offer a manual transmission.

The first time I saw an Insight was on the I-95 HOV lanes near Dumfries.  Thought it was too tiny to be a serious vehicle.  But I still see those original ones from time to time. Obviously Toyota and their Prius have been the big winners, at least in Northern Virginia (I do not know what impact these cars have had on the HOV lanes on I-64, I-564 and I-264 in Hampton Roads).

I did not know that the CR-Z was offered with a manual transmission.

(My former colleagues both said they were regularly confronted by busybodies angry at them for "illegally" putting the CF plates on cars that weren't hybrids. The exemption was never limited to hybrids, and to make it more complicated, not all hybrid models were eligible for the exemption.)

All correct.  Here's a case in point. 

You may recall back in the days when nearly all of VDOT's trucks were painted orange, they had a fleet of Dodge 1 ton Safety Service Patrol trucks, and I believe all of those trucks were powered by CNG (the Safety Service  Patrol  trucks are still there, but all of it has been  outsourced to private contractors now (the current SSP trucks no longer have state government tags, but regular Virginia "civilian" truck tags)).

Someone purchased one of those CNG trucks from VDOT when the trucks reached time to be phased-out of the Commonwealth's fleet.  Yes, that truck had CF tags on it, but the VDOT paint job  was painted over (perfectly legal since it was a pretty low-emission vehicle). There were also a few Ford Crown Victorias with CNG stickers and CF tags (I wonder if some small police force (Alexandria?) might have had a few of them, as these cars looked like retired unmarked police cars).

[1995hoo]

One of my former colleagues had a CNG Crown Vic with the Police Interceptor package, but he bought it on eBay Motors from a guy in Atlanta.

The original Insight can actually sell for a good price these days because it was EPA-rated for 61 mpg city/70 highway. I think it had a manual shift too.


Edited to add: Regarding the tolls, we easily top $25 a week going down I-495 from I-66 to Springfield and then I-95 to the Franconia—Springfield Parkway. But even with the tolls, gas, and parking it's still slightly cheaper than full rush-hour Metro fare roundtrip for two people plus Metro parking.

[Takumi]

I drove through western Chesterfield for awhile yesterday. The final Otterdale Road southern extension, from Harper's Mill Parkway to Beach Road is finally under construction, and Woolridge Road is about halfway to Old Hundred Road, with the other half also under construction.

[1995hoo]

This thread seems like the best place to ask this. My wife is interested in going to Primland for Christmas. See map link below. Has anyone been down there? If so, how are the roads likely to be at that time of year (recognizing of course you never know what it might do at any given time)? I guess my thought is, is it reasonable to try to drive there at Christmas in a front-wheel-drive sedan with all-season tires? I'm less concerned about US-58 than I am about the roads after you turn off there.

Dropped Pin
near Busted Rock Rd, Meadows of Dan, VA 24120
https://goo.gl/maps/cy9tZ458FBs

[froggie]

The weather will do what the weather does, but from satellite imagery, it looks like SR 610 is paved from US 58 up to Primland.

On a related note, Google needs to update their map of the area...looks like a golf course has been built surrounding Primland...the end of SR 610, itself beyond what looks like a gate, appears to be here.

[cpzilliacus]

Washington Post: Driver unfairly accused of not paying toll subjected to $8,300 "˜bureaucratic nightmare'

Abimbola Laniyan seemed to do everything right when she guided her car onto the Dulles Toll Road in May 2015, a judge would later write. She had her E-ZPass transponder to pay the toll and plenty of money in her account.

But for reasons that are still unknown, the electronic toll system did not deduct the $2.50 toll and others that followed. The glitch made the law student from Herndon, Va., a scofflaw in the eyes of the toll authority.

Over several months, Laniyan made phone calls, filed appeals and requested records in what a judge would call a "bureaucratic nightmare"  to prove she was not guilty of a crime she thought she never committed. Fines and court fees piled up, and $26 in unpaid tolls became a potential judgment of $8,334.

[74/171FAN]

There is a public hearing tomorrow night on the planned flyover ramp from I-95 NB to VA 286 (Fairfax County Pkwy) NB plus other improvements at the interchange.

See planned design here.

[1995hoo]

The weather will do what the weather does, but from satellite imagery, it looks like SR 610 is paved from US 58 up to Primland.

On a related note, Google needs to update their map of the area...looks like a golf course has been built surrounding Primland...the end of SR 610, itself beyond what looks like a gate, appears to be here.

We've made our reservation. I'll post back in December about the roads, but here's something interesting....we aren't staying in the main building, opting instead for one of three "tree houses" they offer. From what I found online, apparently if you stay in the tree houses and you do not have a four-wheel drive vehicle, they lend you one for the duration of your stay!

[Roadsguy]

What's up with the striping on I-77 between the state line and just north of exit 8? There are hash marks in the shoulders and the dotted line segments are much closer together than normal. Street View shows it was striped like this sometime between June 2011 and August 2013.