Virginia

[Mapmikey]

Drove U.S. 250 for the first time ever from I-81 (through Staunton) to the crest of Allegheny Mountain at the Highland County, Va./Pocahontas County, W.Va. border (elevation better than 4,000 feet AMSL).  Probably the most twisting primary highway I have ever driven in Virginia (U.S. 33, U.S. 211 (crossing Shenandoah National Park), Skyline Drive and Blue Ridge Parkway do not come close). 

The weather was not as good as promised, but there were still plenty of spectacular views in western Augusta County and at several points in Highland County. 

There were several new-looking cutouts in Staunton (not sure if they were new or not, and I did not photograph them on this trip).

US 250 is definitely the twistiest US Highway routing in Virginia.

These primary routes in Virginia are IMO worse than US 250:

VA 16 from Marion to Tazewell (a top notch white knuckle experience)
VA 80 between US 11 and US 19
VA 56's crossing of Blue Ridge Pkwy
VA 72 north of Coeburn
VA 70
VA 63 from Clinchco to Haysi

[cpzilliacus]

VA 56's crossing of Blue Ridge Pkwy

The only  one on your list I have driven. 

I did not think it was as twisting as U.S. 250, but at the time I drove it, it had official signs posted discouraging large trucks from using it to cross the Blue Ridge.

[hbelkins]

Since many of those listed are in the southwestern corner of the state, I've driven them. I will definitely agree about VA 16 and VA 80 (the latter is also especially curvy between Breaks and Haysi). I don't really have any great recollection of VA 72 and VA 70 being that crooked, and VA 63 only moderately so.

[74/171FAN]

It seems that the construction of the interchange on the south end of the Warrenton Bypass (US 15/US 17/US 29) will start in 2018.

[amroad17]

I remember back in the 1970's and 1980's when Warrenton had zero issues driving through or around the city.  Obviously, with the increase in population across northern and northwestern Virginia, this has to be done.  Looking at the photo from the article makes me believe that a freeway is needed from the north end of the Warrenton bypass to the south end of the Culpeper bypass.  Of course, this will not happen without disrupting many residences and many businesses.  This interchange will hopefully alleviate the backups on the Warrenton bypass when this is completed.

[cpzilliacus]

I remember back in the 1970's and 1980's when Warrenton had zero issues driving through or around the city.  Obviously, with the increase in population across northern and northwestern Virginia, this has to be done.  Looking at the photo from the article makes me believe that a freeway is needed from the north end of the Warrenton bypass to the south end of the Culpeper bypass.  Of course, this will not happen without disrupting many residences and many businesses.  This interchange will hopefully alleviate the backups on the Warrenton bypass when this is completed.

Culpeper County has become a bedroom exurb of Northern Virginia, with plenty of new development visible along and near U.S. 29, and this is a bottleneck for many commuters from that part of the world. Beyond that, U.S. 17 is a truck bypass of the west side of the Capital Beltway for trucks moving between the I-95, I-81 and I-70 corridors, and all that traffic has to come through this intersection as well.

So this is a good thing, though I wonder how much this project has been subject to organized opposition?

There does not appear to be that much in the way  of development close to the current interchange, so it should be possible to construct without too much impact on people living nearby (Google Maps here).

Aside, the first comment in the article linked above was this:

VDOT will screw this one up too just like the weigh station we've never used and the Opal intersection that that after two revisions and is still a cluster#$@!

The weigh station mentioned above was on the U.S. 15/U.S. 17/U.S. 29 Eastern Bypass of Warrenton south of Meetze Road (VA-643) on the southbound and northbound sides, and it was (and remains) a good example of how not to do truck weight and safety enforcement. It was designed and installed during the administration of Gov. Jim Gilmore (R) (in office from 1998 to 2002) after there were demands to "do something" about the seemingly ever-increasing volume of trucks passing Warrenton, but VDOT was instructed to not spend any money on the project, so there is no building for the personnel to work in, no deceleration or acceleration lanes and no signage.  This was the result, and when the Virginia State Police and DMV tried to operate enforcement activities here, the immediate result was crashes, so much so that the project was abandoned and has never been used again (in other words, the comment above is incorrect - it was used, at least for a short time).

I have seen the Opal flyover for U.S. 17 southbound movements, and it seems to work reasonably well.

[Rothman]

The American tolerance for commute time knows no bounds.  I couldn't imagine commuting into the VA suburbs from Culpeper every day.

[1995hoo]

The American tolerance for commute time knows no bounds.  I couldn't imagine commuting into the VA suburbs from Culpeper every day.

About 12 years ago I worked with someone who commuted from Charlottesville to DC for a time. She was a summer associate at the law firm where I worked, she attended UVA Law School, and she made the commute because she had a daughter attending school in Charlottesville and she didn't want to disrupt that (seeing as how the daughter's school year ran a good month beyond the university calendar). I do not remember whether she was a single parent or what, because I think a more typical strategy might have been to room with someone in DC on weeknights and then return to Charlottesville for the weekends.

[cpzilliacus]

The American tolerance for commute time knows no bounds.  I couldn't imagine commuting into the VA suburbs from Culpeper every day.

About 12 years ago I worked with someone who commuted from Charlottesville to DC for a time. She was a summer associate at the law firm where I worked, she attended UVA Law School, and she made the commute because she had a daughter attending school in Charlottesville and she didn't want to disrupt that (seeing as how the daughter's school year ran a good month beyond the university calendar). I do not remember whether she was a single parent or what, because I think a more typical strategy might have been to room with someone in DC on weeknights and then return to Charlottesville for the weekends.

Charlottesville to D.C. (even Charlottesville to Northern Virginia) every day would seem like a brutal trip, even in the summer when the days are reasonably long.

A quick look at the Amtrak site does not provide any alternative that would allow daily commutes by railroad either, and at $80 or better one-way, probably not affordable either, and Greyhound does not seem much better in terms of schedules of buses.  The only non-Greyhound bus is Starlight, and it runs from the Amtrak Station and Rio Road to New York City (not Washington), and appears to be oriented to the "weekend in New York" market.

[cpzilliacus]

The American tolerance for commute time knows no bounds.  I couldn't imagine commuting into the VA suburbs from Culpeper every day.

Hey, people move out there because they do not want to live in a small apartment and cannot afford a single-family detached home closer in, and are probably not believers in Smart Growth. There could be VRE commuter rail service from Culpeper to Washington, D.C. (Amtrak stops in Culpeper), at some point in the future.

Was discussing recently the land use along I-83 in Baltimore County, Maryland, where most development is disfavored north of Timonium, and the "resumption" of suburban sprawl once across the line into York County, Pennsylvania (especially Shrewsbury Township, a de-facto suburb of Baltimore and maybe Washington too).

[1995hoo]

The American tolerance for commute time knows no bounds.  I couldn't imagine commuting into the VA suburbs from Culpeper every day.

About 12 years ago I worked with someone who commuted from Charlottesville to DC for a time. She was a summer associate at the law firm where I worked, she attended UVA Law School, and she made the commute because she had a daughter attending school in Charlottesville and she didn't want to disrupt that (seeing as how the daughter's school year ran a good month beyond the university calendar). I do not remember whether she was a single parent or what, because I think a more typical strategy might have been to room with someone in DC on weeknights and then return to Charlottesville for the weekends.

Charlottesville to D.C. (even Charlottesville to Northern Virginia) every day would seem like a brutal trip, even in the summer when the days are reasonably long.

....

Absolutely. I've made the roundtrip between Charlottesville and Fairfax (near Woodson HS) with maybe a 20-minute turnaround time in Fairfax more than once, and on at least one occasion I did it twice in one day. That got really old. I can't imagine doing it every single day. Plus when I was in school making that drive regularly there was a lot less traffic (and a lot fewer traffic lights) between Warrenton and Gainesville than now. Used to be an easy drive. Now I find that segment to be a real nuisance (good thing I don't usually go that way anymore since the other way via Gordonsville, Orange, and Wilderness is more direct for where I live now).

[AlexandriaVA]

The American tolerance for commute time knows no bounds.  I couldn't imagine commuting into the VA suburbs from Culpeper every day.

Hey, people move out there because they do not want to live in a small apartment and cannot afford a single-family detached home closer in, and are probably not believers in Smart Growth. There could be VRE commuter rail service from Culpeper to Washington, D.C. (Amtrak stops in Culpeper), at some point in the future.

Was discussing recently the land use along I-83 in Baltimore County, Maryland, where most development is disfavored north of Timonium, and the "resumption" of suburban sprawl once across the line into York County, Pennsylvania (especially Shrewsbury Township, a de-facto suburb of Baltimore and maybe Washington too).

There's plenty of affordable single-family homes in and near the Beltway, but not in the types of neighborhoods (race, density, house+lot size) that Culpeper crowd would want to live in.

[cpzilliacus]

There's plenty of affordable single-family homes in and near the Beltway, but not in the types of neighborhoods (race, density, house+lot size) that Culpeper crowd would want to live in.

There are also people that want a new home, something increasingly rare near the Beltway, but which can be found in places like Culpeper, Shrewsbury and similarly distant exurbs.

[1995hoo]

Another not totally implausible scenario is that spouses have jobs in different locations. I knew a guy who worked in Charlottesville. His wife worked in the Norfolk area. They knew this when they got married and she intended to change jobs, but the economy went in the toilet, so they initially didn't live together for two years (due to work) and then they lived in the Richmond area since it was about as midway between as they could get. Eventually she got a job in the Richmond area. I suppose it's not crazy to think perhaps there are people in the Culpeper area where one spouse works in Charlottesville or Harrisonburg or something and the other works in Northern Virginia or DC.

(Someone once told me my (now-retired) parents are idiots for living off 236 east of Fairfax City because it wasn't near either of their jobs. When they moved there, my mom worked nearby and my father worked downtown, but she later changed jobs and worked in Centreville. Seems to me living roughly halfway between both spouses' jobs is a good way to choose where to live, recognizing their example is FAR more practical and reasonable than the Culpeper hypothesis above! More importantly, in our family's case we moved to that house when I was 10 and my brother was 8 and my parents wanted to make sure we attended Frost and Woodson for junior high and high school. I doubt the school issue factors into living in Culpeper, but in terms of people subjecting themselves to long commutes in the DC suburbs, public school selection is a major issue for many people in choosing where to live. I can't really blame people for making that an important factor.)

[Rothman]

There's plenty of affordable single-family homes in and near the Beltway, but not in the types of neighborhoods (race, density, house+lot size) that Culpeper crowd would want to live in.

There are also people that want a new home, something increasingly rare near the Beltway, but which can be found in places like Culpeper, Shrewsbury and similarly distant exurbs.

Nice to have a new home that you can't enjoy during the week (other than sleeping in it) because you're spending all that time in a car.  Also causes a nightmare when you've got young kids back in Culpeper that need to get to local points A and B during the week (ugh...need to leave work early...again...).

I went from commuting just from Greenbelt, MD to Dupont Circle either by car or Metro (about an hour one-way by the time I got to my office) to driving under ten minutes to work when I moved to Superior, WI and worked in Duluth.  My commute's just a smidge longer than that now here in NY, but there's simply no going back to a long commute once you've given it up.  I'd take a crappier home and a short commute over living in a mansion and having to commute an hour again.  The damage to my quality of life by that long commute is just no longer tolerable if I were to consider it again.

[AlexandriaVA]

Many new houses are built with garbage materials anyway. My WWII-era unit is built from brick and solid as a rock. Some wood-frame stuff from the housing-bubble era in the outer suburbs is already falling apart.

Concur that time is the most scarce resource. Most new houses in North America are overbuilt anyway, in terms of square footage.

[Mapmikey]

Virginia officially gave up on tolling an interstate with the federal exemption...

http://wtop.com/sprawl-crawl/2017/02/va-gives-up-on-some-i-95-tolls/

[Jmiles32]

Virginia officially gave up on tolling an interstate with the federal exemption...

http://wtop.com/sprawl-crawl/2017/02/va-gives-up-on-some-i-95-tolls/

So is tolling I-81 dead in Virginia as well? I was under the impression that VA had submitted some sort of I-81 PP3 toll project(the details are vague) to the Trump administration
http://www.richmond.com/news/article_00698499-4f9c-5ce5-9a06-2ca917fc6da8.html\

[froggie]

^ That actual I-81 P3 submittal was YEARS ago (like over a decade).  Was probably dusted off for Trump's thing (which is also likely going nowhere).  As the article noted, VDOT transferred tolling authority from I-81 to I-95 several years ago.

(also, your link goes to a Pioneers graphic)

[cpzilliacus]

^ That actual I-81 P3 submittal was YEARS ago (like over a decade).  Was probably dusted off for Trump's thing (which is also likely going nowhere).  As the article noted, VDOT transferred tolling authority from I-81 to I-95 several years ago.

Was that before (or after) the Star Solutions proposal for I-81 tolled truck-only lanes crashed and burned?

[froggie]

Star was one of the proposals submitted, but not the only one.

[plain]

That tolling plan was doomed the moment they decided to put the toll south of Petersburg, where it would've generated the least amount of $$$. They should've considered Caroline County instead.

[plain]

The Pocahontas Pkwy's tolls are increasing yet again on March 16th

http://wtvr.com/2017/02/24/pocahontas-parkway-tolls-to-increase-in-march/

[WillWeaverRVA]

The Pocahontas Pkwy's tolls are increasing yet again on March 16th

http://wtvr.com/2017/02/24/pocahontas-parkway-tolls-to-increase-in-march/

And I'm sure the traffic counts will drop even more, accordingly.

[cpzilliacus]

The Pocahontas Pkwy's tolls are increasing yet again on March 16th

http://wtvr.com/2017/02/24/pocahontas-parkway-tolls-to-increase-in-march/

And I'm sure the traffic counts will drop even more, accordingly.

You are probably right.  Even the far west end of the Dulles Greenway, VA-267 (not a cheap road to drive on) carries quite a bit more traffic than any part of VA-895.  I suppose for some drivers, VA-895 is a worthwhile way to avoid I-95 through Richmond, and it also provides a fast way to reach the airport from VA-150 and a large slice of Chesterfield County.