Virginia

[Mapmikey]

Agreed completely. There's a fundamental difference between the distance signage seen on that segment of Route 17 (which just means the road goes there) and the guidance signs on the roads to which it connects at either end. I would say the guidance signage is the type that should be given more credence in determining what VDOT "promotes" as the prevailing route. The mere fact that a city is listed on a distance sign doesn't mean a whole lot–if it did, then taking US-50 west all the way from the Beltway would be the "promoted" route to Winchester from Fairfax County due to this sign just west of Gallows Road, but Winchester is not widely signed in Fairfax County (other than on mileage signs) and most people who know the roads would normally opt for I-66 or the Dulles Toll Road and Greenway to avoid dozens of traffic lights.

The sign Mapmikey linked is the one I was thinking of on I-66 (I didn't post a link last night because I was using the Google Maps app).

Winchester is listed as a control city on I-66 WB at US 50 Fairfax as well as from VA 28. 

A little surprising given US 50 west of US 15 is not exactly welcomed as the through route.  Especially from VA 28 I would think Winchester traffic would be directed to use VA 7 (I have often thought that at this point in time VA 7 and US 50 should be swapped).  Seems like Middleburg would be a more appropriate control city.

[74/171FAN]

Agreed completely. There's a fundamental difference between the distance signage seen on that segment of Route 17 (which just means the road goes there) and the guidance signs on the roads to which it connects at either end. I would say the guidance signage is the type that should be given more credence in determining what VDOT "promotes" as the prevailing route. The mere fact that a city is listed on a distance sign doesn't mean a whole lot–if it did, then taking US-50 west all the way from the Beltway would be the "promoted" route to Winchester from Fairfax County due to this sign just west of Gallows Road, but Winchester is not widely signed in Fairfax County (other than on mileage signs) and most people who know the roads would normally opt for I-66 or the Dulles Toll Road and Greenway to avoid dozens of traffic lights.

The sign Mapmikey linked is the one I was thinking of on I-66 (I didn't post a link last night because I was using the Google Maps app).

Another good example would be Mechanicsville on VA 156 just north of US 460.  How many people these days are going to drive VA 156 all the way from US 460 near Disputanta to Mechanicsville?  Very few especially with I-295 around.

Winchester is listed as a control city on I-66 WB at US 50 Fairfax as well as from VA 28. 

A little surprising given US 50 west of US 15 is not exactly welcomed as the through route.  Especially from VA 28 I would think Winchester traffic would be directed to use VA 7 (I have often thought that at this point in time VA 7 and US 50 should be swapped).  Seems like Middleburg would be a more appropriate control city.

I would still prefer that VA 7 become part of an extended US 48, but that goes into fictional territory.

[1995hoo]

Agreed completely. There's a fundamental difference between the distance signage seen on that segment of Route 17 (which just means the road goes there) and the guidance signs on the roads to which it connects at either end. I would say the guidance signage is the type that should be given more credence in determining what VDOT "promotes" as the prevailing route. The mere fact that a city is listed on a distance sign doesn't mean a whole lot–if it did, then taking US-50 west all the way from the Beltway would be the "promoted" route to Winchester from Fairfax County due to this sign just west of Gallows Road, but Winchester is not widely signed in Fairfax County (other than on mileage signs) and most people who know the roads would normally opt for I-66 or the Dulles Toll Road and Greenway to avoid dozens of traffic lights.

The sign Mapmikey linked is the one I was thinking of on I-66 (I didn't post a link last night because I was using the Google Maps app).

Winchester is listed as a control city on I-66 WB at US 50 Fairfax as well as from VA 28. 

A little surprising given US 50 west of US 15 is not exactly welcomed as the through route.  Especially from VA 28 I would think Winchester traffic would be directed to use VA 7 (I have often thought that at this point in time VA 7 and US 50 should be swapped).  Seems like Middleburg would be a more appropriate control city.

Right, though that's why I said "not widely signed." If I were to apply noelbotevera's thinking about the significance of the distance signs, for example, I might expect to see Winchester signed as a control city for US-50 on the Beltway (the sign just says Fairfax, which I think is very reasonable). The signs on the Beltway for Route 7 list Tysons Corner for westbound traffic (also reasonable, IMO). In other words, I was trying to address the particular situation he seemed to be suggesting, in which he viewed a distance sign on a particular road as being tantamount to "promoting" that road as "THE" (all-caps his) way to go. That's why I cited the particular distance sign that I did–it's in a location where there aren't any signs for Winchester other than the occasional distance sign. (To be sure, it appears on distance signs as far east as the Fort Myer area, but I'd argue that signing it inside the Beltway like that is more reasonable than outside the Beltway due to the former rush-hour HOV restrictions, and current HO/T operations, on I-66, such that Route 50 there is arguably a more important bypass of I-66 than it is between the Beltway and Fair Oaks.)

I'm sure part of not signing Middleburg is political–the people there most likely don't want it signed–and part of it is due to it being such a small place. Either way, I've long thought that sign at Fair Oaks is odd in that if I wanted to take US-50 to Winchester, I'd probably continue to Route 28 and then go north to Route 50 just to avoid all those darn traffic lights through Chantilly. I don't go out Route 50 through that area as often as I used to (I grew up near WT Woodson High School), but on a couple of occasions when I've needed to go to Pohanka Acura out there, it's always been clear that while there really isn't any great way to get there coming from Fairfax, Route 28 has usually been faster (maybe more so in the future due to the elimination of further traffic lights due to the current construction).

I keep looking for a good new route west to Linden to visit our favorite winery, though I've pretty much given up. I think we've used just about everything of any significance such that any new routes would involve lots of back roads that would simply take so long that we wouldn't have much time at the winery.


(Edited to fix a bare URL that didn't appear as a link.)

[TheGrassGuy]

What determines a county route's signage status on Google Maps? I see some county routes marked as ellipses, but others as rectangles. And from what I've been able to gather, I doubt it has anything to do with signage status in real life.

[74/171FAN]

What determines a county route's signage status on Google Maps? I see some county routes marked as ellipses, but others as rectangles. And from what I've been able to gather, I doubt it has anything to do with signage status in real life.

I do not know what determines them being marked on Google.  However, in real life, they are usually signed as circles or are marked in rectangles. (You also get to see a bonus error as this route is actually VA 106...)

[cpzilliacus]

Agreed completely. There's a fundamental difference between the distance signage seen on that segment of Route 17 (which just means the road goes there) and the guidance signs on the roads to which it connects at either end. I would say the guidance signage is the type that should be given more credence in determining what VDOT "promotes" as the prevailing route. The mere fact that a city is listed on a distance sign doesn't mean a whole lot–if it did, then taking US-50 west all the way from the Beltway would be the "promoted" route to Winchester from Fairfax County due to this sign just west of Gallows Road, but Winchester is not widely signed in Fairfax County (other than on mileage signs) and most people who know the roads would normally opt for I-66 or the Dulles Toll Road and Greenway to avoid dozens of traffic lights.

The sign Mapmikey linked is the one I was thinking of on I-66 (I didn't post a link last night because I was using the Google Maps app).

Winchester is listed as a control city on I-66 WB at US 50 Fairfax as well as from VA 28. 

A little surprising given US 50 west of US 15 is not exactly welcomed as the through route.  Especially from VA 28 I would think Winchester traffic would be directed to use VA 7 (I have often thought that at this point in time VA 7 and US 50 should be swapped).  Seems like Middleburg would be a more appropriate control city.

At least on I-66, I think this dates back to the earliest years (mid-1960's) of I-66 in Fairfax County and Prince William County, when it ran from I-495 to U.S. 29 and VA-55 at Gainesville (a short "orphan" section of I-66 bypassing Marshall (I think it is the part that is now multiplexed with U.S. 17) dates back almost that far).

If you think about it from the perspective of VDH engineers then (long before anyone heard of the Piedmont Environmental Council) it makes sense that the signage for U.S. 50 west on I-66 westbound would mention Winchester (I offer no opinion on changing Winchester to something else now).

[Jmiles32]

A few thoughts on US-17 inspired from earlier posts:

1. While I believe there are plans down the road to complete the Opal interchange (although not sure a ramp from US-17 northbound to US-29/US-15 southbound is necessary due to nearby VA-28) it's hard to say whether or not this would really be much of an improvement since all of the businesses (and their access points) just north of interchange (including probably the traffic light) would still all likely be left intact.

2. While the I-95 interchange improvements should largely fix the frequent southbound US-17 backups near Fredericksburg, it will be interesting to see what if/any impact the planned Berea Parkway (a western extension of the Centreport Pkwy from I-95 (Exit 136) to US-17 somewhere around Popular Road) would have on US-17 traffic through the area. Even though it would take traffic three miles north, it would bypass a ton of existing traffic lights and the time saved would maybe make up for the extra distance. Unless of course, Stafford plans to use the road as a stepping stone for more neighborhoods and development.

3. Lastly I wonder what exactly the difference in traffic volumes would be if VDOT did promote US-17 north of I-66 as the route to Winchester, both on US-17 and I-66/I-81. While admittedly this stretch of road is IMO one of the most scenic stretches in the entire state, I do think that had the road been widened years ago, it would still be very scenic and rural similar to the current four-lane stretch of US-17 between I-66 and Warrenton.

[Jmiles32]

Winchester is listed as a control city on I-66 WB at US 50 Fairfax as well as from VA 28. 

A little surprising given US 50 west of US 15 is not exactly welcomed as the through route.  Especially from VA 28 I would think Winchester traffic would be directed to use VA 7 (I have often thought that at this point in time VA 7 and US 50 should be swapped).  Seems like Middleburg would be a more appropriate control city.

At the I-66 interchange, I'd have the control cities for US-50 west be Fair Oaks/Chantilly while at the VA-28 interchange I'd have it be either South Riding, Dulles South, or Aldie. If Middleburg doesn't want the attention then so be it.

[1995hoo]

Agreed completely. There's a fundamental difference between the distance signage seen on that segment of Route 17 (which just means the road goes there) and the guidance signs on the roads to which it connects at either end. I would say the guidance signage is the type that should be given more credence in determining what VDOT "promotes" as the prevailing route. The mere fact that a city is listed on a distance sign doesn't mean a whole lot–if it did, then taking US-50 west all the way from the Beltway would be the "promoted" route to Winchester from Fairfax County due to this sign just west of Gallows Road, but Winchester is not widely signed in Fairfax County (other than on mileage signs) and most people who know the roads would normally opt for I-66 or the Dulles Toll Road and Greenway to avoid dozens of traffic lights.

The sign Mapmikey linked is the one I was thinking of on I-66 (I didn't post a link last night because I was using the Google Maps app).

Winchester is listed as a control city on I-66 WB at US 50 Fairfax as well as from VA 28. 

A little surprising given US 50 west of US 15 is not exactly welcomed as the through route.  Especially from VA 28 I would think Winchester traffic would be directed to use VA 7 (I have often thought that at this point in time VA 7 and US 50 should be swapped).  Seems like Middleburg would be a more appropriate control city.

At least on I-66, I think this dates back to the earliest years (mid-1960's) of I-66 in Fairfax County and Prince William County, when it ran from I-495 to U.S. 29 and VA-55 at Gainesville (a short "orphan" section of I-66 bypassing Marshall (I think it is the part that is now multiplexed with U.S. 17) dates back almost that far).

If you think about it from the perspective of VDH engineers then (long before anyone heard of the Piedmont Environmental Council) it makes sense that the signage for U.S. 50 west on I-66 westbound would mention Winchester (I offer no opinion on changing Winchester to something else now).

This is an excellent historical point. I don't really remember when I-66 ended at Gainesville, though I'm aware it did, and I'm almost positive I never travelled on that "orphan" piece back then, but I do remember when I-66 first opened out to I-81 there were LGSs along the side of the road advising of the fact. Route 50 was almost certainly the better thru route from Fairfax to Winchester than heading out to Gainesville and then taking VA-55 to US-17.

Also, regarding the point Jmiles32 makes, Fair Oaks didn't exist back then (the shopping mall opened in 1980) and Chantilly and Centreville were generally considered to be out in the sticks. That's probably why they were not included back then, though certainly nowadays Chantilly (at a minimum) would be a legitimate candidate for inclusion. I have a feeling Aldie likely wouldn't want to be on the sign either–recall that Aldie, Middleburg, and Upperville were very vocally opposed to proposals to widen and realign Route 50.

While there have been some changes to BGSs in Northern Virginia over the years (notably, the addition of Manassas to signs for I-66), it seems like more often than not the signs tend to be relative carbon copies of the old ones, notably on I-395 when the old signs were replaced with identical Clearview versions. (Control cities or neighborhoods is another issue entirely, but I would add something to the BGSs on the Beltway for Braddock Road–most likely Burke for westbound traffic, though I might include Fairfax as well because it can be a faster way to get there than Route 236 due to fewer lights and no 35- and 25-mph zones since it doesn't go through Fairfax City.)


(Edited to add a point to the final paragraph)

[Jmiles32]

Speaking of I-66 control cities for a second; does anyone know what the farthest east use of "Strasburg" for I-66 west was? While I know for a fact that it was used at both the Gainesville and Haymarket interchanges about a decade ago, both have now been replaced by Front Royal which is understandable and probably better due to that being the location of Virginia's inland port. I want to say it was once used at the VA-234 Bus exit (Manassas) as well but I'm not sure...

[1995hoo]

I don't ever remember it being used east of Gainesville, but that doesn't mean my memory is not faulty.

[cpzilliacus]

3. Lastly I wonder what exactly the difference in traffic volumes would be if VDOT did promote US-17 north of I-66 as the route to Winchester, both on US-17 and I-66/I-81. While admittedly this stretch of road is IMO one of the most scenic stretches in the entire state, I do think that had the road been widened years ago, it would still be very scenic and rural similar to the current four-lane stretch of US-17 between I-66 and Warrenton.

Big problem (IMO) here is the railroad grade crossing with NS (formerly the Manassas Gap Railroad) north of I-66 at Delaplane - at the bottom of a long downhill descent southbound and a shorter one northbound.  It's also on a curved section of railroad.

It would need to be replaced with an overpass and that is not cheap, based on the nearby presence of Goose Creek which implies a new bridge over the creek as well, translating into a long and high bridge to clear the creek and the railroad.

[cpzilliacus]

Agreed completely. There's a fundamental difference between the distance signage seen on that segment of Route 17 (which just means the road goes there) and the guidance signs on the roads to which it connects at either end. I would say the guidance signage is the type that should be given more credence in determining what VDOT "promotes" as the prevailing route. The mere fact that a city is listed on a distance sign doesn't mean a whole lot–if it did, then taking US-50 west all the way from the Beltway would be the "promoted" route to Winchester from Fairfax County due to this sign just west of Gallows Road, but Winchester is not widely signed in Fairfax County (other than on mileage signs) and most people who know the roads would normally opt for I-66 or the Dulles Toll Road and Greenway to avoid dozens of traffic lights.

The sign Mapmikey linked is the one I was thinking of on I-66 (I didn't post a link last night because I was using the Google Maps app).

Winchester is listed as a control city on I-66 WB at US 50 Fairfax as well as from VA 28. 

A little surprising given US 50 west of US 15 is not exactly welcomed as the through route.  Especially from VA 28 I would think Winchester traffic would be directed to use VA 7 (I have often thought that at this point in time VA 7 and US 50 should be swapped).  Seems like Middleburg would be a more appropriate control city.

At least on I-66, I think this dates back to the earliest years (mid-1960's) of I-66 in Fairfax County and Prince William County, when it ran from I-495 to U.S. 29 and VA-55 at Gainesville (a short "orphan" section of I-66 bypassing Marshall (I think it is the part that is now multiplexed with U.S. 17) dates back almost that far).

If you think about it from the perspective of VDH engineers then (long before anyone heard of the Piedmont Environmental Council) it makes sense that the signage for U.S. 50 west on I-66 westbound would mention Winchester (I offer no opinion on changing Winchester to something else now).

This is an excellent historical point. I don't really remember when I-66 ended at Gainesville, though I'm aware it did, and I'm almost positive I never travelled on that "orphan" piece back then, but I do remember when I-66 first opened out to I-81 there were LGSs along the side of the road advising of the fact. Route 50 was almost certainly the better thru route from Fairfax to Winchester than heading out to Gainesville and then taking VA-55 to US-17.

It was a very simple and rather hazardous affair - the westbound side of I-66 dumped all traffic onto southbound U.S. 29 (and formerly westbound U.S. 211) near that miserable NS grade crossing (blocking that crossing was a real hazard).  The only entrance to I-66 eastbound was from northbound U.S. 29 (eastbound U.S. 211).  Other movements implicitly required U turns, which led to at least some crashes.   The intersection with VA-55 was just south of the railroad at a busy signalized intersection.

I remember being down that way as a high school junior (1975) as a counselor at Camp Glenkirk (now gone) near Lake Manassas on Glenkirk Road (VA-675), which Montgomery County Public Schools leased for outdoor education for grade 6 students.

Also, regarding the point Jmiles32 makes, Fair Oaks didn't exist back then (the shopping mall opened in 1980) and Chantilly and Centreville were generally considered to be out in the sticks. That's probably why they were not included back then, though certainly nowadays Chantilly (at a minimum) would be a legitimate candidate for inclusion. I have a feeling Aldie likely wouldn't want to be on the sign either–recall that Aldie, Middleburg, and Upperville were very vocally opposed to proposals to widen and realign Route 50.

Agree.  Manassas was even more "in the sticks" back then.  Gainesville?  Only roadgeeks knew about that (I always regarded it as an analog to Breezewood, though I also knew that Virginia was going to finish it out to I-81, which was done in the early 1980's. Yes, Chantilly would be a good destination. 

Agree that the small towns along U.S. 50 in Loudoun County and Fauquier County would likely be very unhappy if they were mentioned on I-66 signs.

This also reminds me that back then, the interchange at VA-243 (Nutley Street) was a bad joke.  I think there were two of the movements accommodated then.

While there have been some changes to BGSs in Northern Virginia over the years (notably, the addition of Manassas to signs for I-66), it seems like more often than not the signs tend to be relative carbon copies of the old ones, notably on I-395 when the old signs were replaced with identical Clearview versions. (Control cities or neighborhoods is another issue entirely, but I would add something to the BGSs on the Beltway for Braddock Road–most likely Burke for westbound traffic, though I might include Fairfax as well because it can be a faster way to get there than Route 236 due to fewer lights and no 35- and 25-mph zones since it doesn't go through Fairfax City.)

(Edited to add a point to the final paragraph)

Overall correct.  Front Royal was the control city even when I-66 only went as fair as Gainesville!  And there was a sign on westbound I-66 west of I-495 telling drivers that the freeway was only open to Gainesville (truth in freeways?).

I have always suspected that U.S. 50/U.S. 29 (Fairfax Boulevard) has signals timed to discourage bailout traffic from I-66, but I cannot prove that.

The control cities for Inner Loop 495 in Fairfax County was Frederick at the start in 1964 (yes, I was a roadgeek then, and a trip to the Commonwealth (made so much easier by I-495) was an adventure for me before I got my license).

Later it was Rockville, but a former Virginia governor ordered VDOT to change most of them to Tysons Corner.

Outer Loop in Montgomery County, Maryland still has Northern Virginia on the mainline and at several entrance ramps.

[Jmiles32]

3. Lastly I wonder what exactly the difference in traffic volumes would be if VDOT did promote US-17 north of I-66 as the route to Winchester, both on US-17 and I-66/I-81. While admittedly this stretch of road is IMO one of the most scenic stretches in the entire state, I do think that had the road been widened years ago, it would still be very scenic and rural similar to the current four-lane stretch of US-17 between I-66 and Warrenton.

Big problem (IMO) here is the railroad grade crossing with NS (formerly the Manassas Gap Railroad) north of I-66 at Delaplane - at the bottom of a long downhill descent southbound and a shorter one northbound.  It's also on a curved section of railroad.

It would need to be replaced with an overpass and that is not cheap, based on the nearby presence of Goose Creek which implies a new bridge over the creek as well, translating into a long and high bridge to clear the creek and the railroad.

Yeah US-15's crossing of the NS in Haymarket presents similar expensive issues that are currently the main culprit behind why the planned project to four-lane this very short stretch of US-15 and build a bridge over the tracks can't seem to find any funding.
https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8141517,-77.6449025,16z?hl=en&authuser=0

[cpzilliacus]

Yeah US-15's crossing of the NS in Haymarket presents similar expensive issues that are currently the main culprit behind why the planned project to four-lane this very short stretch of US-15 and build a bridge over the tracks can't seem to find any funding.
https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8141517,-77.6449025,16z?hl=en&authuser=0

Unfortunately, I think you are correct.  I visit that Sheetz in Haymarket sometimes, and for being a single-track railroad, the NS line (f/k/a Manassas Gap Railroad) is very busy with plenty of long freight trains. 

And there have been discussions about extending VRE service to Haymarket, though it is not clear to me where the station might be located, and the project is on hold now anyway.

[1995hoo]

I'd argue that the Haymarket at-grade crossing's proximity to the I-66 interchange makes it arguably more complex, and thus expensive, than the US-17 at-grade crossing in question. The latter would require some sort of access road on the north side to serve the various businesses (including a winery) in the area right around the railroad tracks, but that would be relatively straightforward. The Haymarket one presents significantly greater issues.

cpzilliacus mentioned the old at-grade crossing in Gainesville. I certainly remember that one. I recall several incidents caused when someone exiting the 7-11 parking (which, if memory serves, did not have a railroad crossing gate across one of the exits) didn't bother to look before driving out to cross the tracks. Replacing that at-grade crossing was part of a big project that also created a SPUI at Route 55. (Those of us who remember the early-1980s construction of the SPUI at US-50 and Gallows Road in Fairfax County were struck by the similarities in the Gainesville project.) Annoying thing was, though, that while once upon a time when you got past the light at Route 55 things kind of opened up, now there are so many new traffic lights between there and Route 15 that all the new overpass and SPUI do for Route 29 traffic is to speed your way to the next red light. I guess that's not entirely fair–eliminating that railroad crossing was sorely needed and was a major improvement–but still, a project that once might have seemed like it would expedite passage through Gainesville now just moves the slowdown immediately to the west.

When I was in college, Route 29 was my major route to and from Charlottesville. It makes less sense for me to go that way now, but when I do, if I'm heading southbound (or westbound to Route 211), even with the reconstruction in Gainesville I still often find it faster to use either Route 15 south at Haymarket or Route 245 to Route 17 out at Old Tavern to approach Warrenton from the north. No railroad crossing at all going the latter way.

[cpzilliacus]

I'd argue that the Haymarket at-grade crossing's proximity to the I-66 interchange makes it arguably more complex, and thus expensive, than the US-17 at-grade crossing in question. The latter would require some sort of access road on the north side to serve the various businesses (including a winery) in the area right around the railroad tracks, but that would be relatively straightforward. The Haymarket one presents significantly greater issues.

There are changes in grade at Haymarket but I think they are steeper at Delaplane on U.S. 17.

But yes, the grade crossing at Haymarket is complex, and being close to the busy intersection of U.S. 15 and  VA-55 (in front of Sheetz) also makes things more difficult.   That is not the sleepy intersection it once was.

cpzilliacus mentioned the old at-grade crossing in Gainesville. I certainly remember that one. I recall several incidents caused when someone exiting the 7-11 parking (which, if memory serves, did not have a railroad crossing gate across one of the exits) didn't bother to look before driving out to cross the tracks. Replacing that at-grade crossing was part of a big project that also created a SPUI at Route 55. (Those of us who remember the early-1980s construction of the SPUI at US-50 and Gallows Road in Fairfax County were struck by the similarities in the Gainesville project.) Annoying thing was, though, that while once upon a time when you got past the light at Route 55 things kind of opened up, now there are so many new traffic lights between there and Route 15 that all the new overpass and SPUI do for Route 29 traffic is to speed your way to the next red light. I guess that's not entirely fair–eliminating that railroad crossing was sorely needed and was a major improvement–but still, a project that once might have seemed like it would expedite passage through Gainesville now just moves the slowdown immediately to the west.

Agree.

The Gainesville grade crossing was one of worst in all of Northern Virginia.  It could badly impact westbound I-66 when it was blocked too, which was serious safety problem.

Important to note that the Haymarket municipal cops work speed enforcement along VA-55 west of U.S. 29, often sitting in plain view but they still catch a lot of drivers.

When I was in college, Route 29 was my major route to and from Charlottesville. It makes less sense for me to go that way now, but when I do, if I'm heading southbound (or westbound to Route 211), even with the reconstruction in Gainesville I still often find it faster to use either Route 15 south at Haymarket or Route 245 to Route 17 out at Old Tavern to approach Warrenton from the north. No railroad crossing at all going the latter way.

That was my choice when I-66 ended at Gainesville.  But since Sheetz opened at Haymarket, I usually go there if I am headed west on the I-66 corridor or to the south along U.S. 29 in the direction of Warrenton.

[Jmiles32]

Annoying thing was, though, that while once upon a time when you got past the light at Route 55 things kind of opened up, now there are so many new traffic lights between there and Route 15 that all the new overpass and SPUI do for Route 29 traffic is to speed your way to the next red light. I guess that's not entirely fair–eliminating that railroad crossing was sorely needed and was a major improvement–but still, a project that once might have seemed like it would expedite passage through Gainesville now just moves the slowdown immediately to the west.

Agreed although I will say that in my experience those lights immediately south (or west) of the Gainesville interchange are all fairly timed well and are not the cause for afternoon backups (However, I do think that the later lights at US-15, Broad Run Church Road, and Dumfries Road do cause southbound issues). Instead, I would argue that the backups are primarily caused by the drop of the third lane immediately after the Virginia Oaks light. Thus, traffic exiting onto southbound US-29 from the SPUI have to merge over not one but two lanes, and often times during heavy traffic the easier option at least for me was to simply turn right at the Virginia Oaks light, make a U-turn, and then wait for the light. Furthermore, it absolutely boggles my mind that when the southbound US-29 bridge over the North Fork Broad Run was reconstructed about 10 years ago, no one considered building a bridge with room to handle 3 lanes when 3 lane ROW currently exists both immediately to the north and the south! The light at Somerset Crossing Drive is IMO a far more natural place to end the third lane instead of where it currently ends and would almost certainly improve traffic flow. Absolutely crazy that this improvement didn't happen.

There is also a backup problem (arguably even worse) in the afternoons with VA-55 immediately west of the SPIU. The primary culprits behind this issue are both the merge from 4 to 2 lanes and the lack of a right turn lane at the nearby/busy Catharpin Road light. The easy solution here would be simply to extend the second lane that currently merges and turn that into a right turn lane at Catharpin Road. The reason I say this backup might be worse than the US-29 one is that Prince William County actually offered up a potential bond project in a voter referendum to widen VA-55 to four lanes past Catharpin Road. However in the end the county decided to take the project off of the bond referendum. While it was unclear why exactly the project got taken off of the referendum, it may be at least partly due to costs associated with the presence of a nearby cemetery right off of the road shortly after the current lane drop.

[VTGoose]

A Virginia Tech history professor has received a grant to study the "displacement and environmental destruction" caused by the construction of the Interstate highway system. "LaDale Winling, an associate professor of history at Virginia Tech, is determined to change that. And to help him achieve that goal, the National Endowment for Humanities has provided him with a prestigious grant to kickstart a new project, "Connecting the Interstates."  "Connecting the Interstates"  will illuminate the damaging effects of the highway system through an interactive map, Winling said. The tool can help community leaders, public officials, journalists, and historians along with the general public understand the system's impact on a deeper level." See https://vtnews.vt.edu/articles/2020/12/destruction-and-displacement--history-professor-earns-grant-to-e.html for details.

[cpzilliacus]

A Virginia Tech history professor has received a grant to study the "displacement and environmental destruction" caused by the construction of the Interstate highway system. "LaDale Winling, an associate professor of history at Virginia Tech, is determined to change that. And to help him achieve that goal, the National Endowment for Humanities has provided him with a prestigious grant to kickstart a new project, "Connecting the Interstates."  "Connecting the Interstates"  will illuminate the damaging effects of the highway system through an interactive map, Winling said. The tool can help community leaders, public officials, journalists, and historians along with the general public understand the system's impact on a deeper level." See https://vtnews.vt.edu/articles/2020/12/destruction-and-displacement--history-professor-earns-grant-to-e.html for details.

Thanks for sharing this.

I took a quick look and discovered an issue immediately.

Not about my home state, Maryland, but about our good neighbor across the creek - the Commonwealth of Virginia.

The first page we see has an image of the Richmond-Petersburg Turnpike, signed as I-95 (and the southwestern part as I-85).    But the RPT was not built as part of the Interstate system - it was funded with pre-interstate revenue bonds, and might not have been built to VDH Interstate standards (consider that some of the mainline curves and many of the ramps were quite a lot tighter than what I have seen on "old" urban Interstates in Virginia).

I am not disputing the bad impacts of some Interstates across the nation, but fingering the RPT as an Interstate is wrong, even though it clearly had negative impacts through parts of Richmond and maybe Petersburg too (not as sure about Petersburg as I have not read anything about the impact of the RPT on Petersburg.).

Curiously, Brad Plumer, writing in the New York Times, made the exact same mistake not that long ago, and I sent him an e-mail, and he changed his article.

[Takumi]

^ Petersburg definitely has had problems for decades, but as far as I'm aware, few if any of them have had to do with the RPT.

[cpzilliacus]

^ Petersburg definitely has had problems for decades, but as far as I'm aware, few if any of them have had to do with the RPT.

I defer to your better knowledge.   

I have read that the municipal government of Petersburg has had serious financial problems at least a few times, but I am not sure if that has anything to do with the RPT and I will assume that the answer is no.

[plain]

The RPT claimed some homes in Petersburg but not nearly as many as in Richmond's Jackson Ward. So I would have to agree with Takumi, very little impact to Petersburg, if any. Looking at Historic Aerials, much of the Petersburg segments followed undeveloped plots anyway.

Actually, the I-64 interchange with the RPT led to even more homes being taken in Jackson Ward, on top of what happened 10 years prior.

The big one, however, is the construction of the Downtown Expressway (VA 195), which took hundreds of homes from US 1/301 westward.

Jackson Ward was starting a slow decline in the years preceding construction of the RPT, but the highway definitely help speed that decline up, on top of splitting the neighborhood into two.

[Takumi]

Yeah, Petersburg's biggest problems came later, culminating in the 80s when the Brown & Williamson cigarette factory downtown closed because they didn't agree with the city council's tax rate imposed on them. The early 90s saw the Southpark Mall development in neighboring Colonial Heights siphon a lot of the remaining businesses.

[1995hoo]

VDOT tweeted another great "Then and Now." Love the old signs in the top photo, and it's striking how little the spot has changed in just over 60 years.

https://twitter.com/VaDOT/status/1347591910765035522