Virginia

[WillWeaverRVA]

This is bound to piss people off. They're thinking about "15th View"ing the on ramps to I-64 EB at Mallory St and Settlers Landing Rd.

https://www.dailypress.com/news/transportation/dp-nw-hampton-vdot-metering-mallory-settlers-landing-20210812-tuidy655pvbl7nue6oqoqlumd4-story.html

A terrible idea to anyone remotely familiar with Hampton traffic; this is gonna make life miserable for anyone who works at the VA, the University, or downtown and needs to commute to the Southside.

That is a horrendous idea.

[froggie]

"Hall said the ramp closure, similar to a ramp gate at the Ocean View and 15th View juncture in Norfolk, would be a temporary measure during the expansion."

When you boil it down, it's no different than ramp closures that exist on other major road projects.


I would also reiterate something that I was told long and often the two times I was stationed in Norfolk:  Live on the same side of the water as where you work..  And this was years (2 decades in my first duty station case) before the current construction finally began.

[Mapmikey]

"Hall said the ramp closure, similar to a ramp gate at the Ocean View and 15th View juncture in Norfolk, would be a temporary measure during the expansion."

When you boil it down, it's no different than ramp closures that exist on other major road projects.


I would also reiterate something that I was told long and often the two times I was stationed in Norfolk:  Live on the same side of the water as where you work..  And this was years (2 decades in my first duty station case) before the current construction finally began.

I can vouch this was true 30 years ago.  And not that many more years prior, there were no crossings other than the James River Bridge, so over time people intentionally started cross-commuting down there.

This is also true in the Tidewater area even down to the water between Norfolk and Portsmouth.  In hindsight I wish I had figured out a way to live on the Portsmouth side when I worked at the shipyard.  But my wife was going to ODU much of that time and had to take the bus, so that took bigger priority.

This is also true in the DC metro area.  Despite my own choices here, it would be better for most people to live on the same side of the Potomac as they work, if you don't live and work pretty close to a Metro station.  Though people on this board might find it hard to believe, cross-commuting in the DC area is actually better than it was when I got here 25 years ago.

[sprjus4]

^ From a traffic standpoint, strictly looking at I-64, closing the ramps is a good idea.

However, when you consider the large area in Hampton locally that will be impacted, having to drive in some cases miles of backtracking to reach the interstate, it becomes questionable. It's not like 15th View where it's a local community. It's Hampton University, the VA Hospital, downtown Hampton, and the thousands of homes to the north and east of I-64. How much burden will this put onto the LaSalle interchange?

Have other solutions been considered, such as ramp metering, that Hampton Roads seems to have never discovered yet, or possibly closing off one of the interchanges in questions, not both, to at least provide some level of access?

[1995hoo]

....

This is also true in the DC metro area.  Despite my own choices here, it would be better for most people to live on the same side of the Potomac as they work, if you don't live and work pretty close to a Metro station.  Though people on this board might find it hard to believe, cross-commuting in the DC area is actually better than it was when I got here 25 years ago.

The problem in the DC area is that because you're talking about three completely different jurisdictions, it's more complicated than simply commute-related. That is, there are ample reasons why someone would spurn the easier commute to downtown that he might be able to get if he lives in the District of Columbia. Hard to say too much more without getting political, but I know most of the people who regularly read this thread will understand the point without my having to violate forum rules by getting into a discussion of politics, taxes, schools, crime, etc.

Then, of course, there are two-commute households. When I was growing up and our family moved to where my mom still lives, a short distance east of Fairfax City, she was working part-time not too far from Merrifield and my dad was working downtown. She later got a full-time job in Centreville. So they lived more or less halfway between the two jobs. Made sense to me, although the biggest factor in where we lived was that it ensured my brother and I would attend Frost and Woodson for junior high and high school, respectively. So my parents had jobs on different sides of the river, as it were.

(Edited to add the second paragraph.)

[cpzilliacus]

This is also true in the DC metro area.  Despite my own choices here, it would be better for most people to live on the same side of the Potomac as they work, if you don't live and work pretty close to a Metro station.  Though people on this board might find it hard to believe, cross-commuting in the DC area is actually better than it was when I got here 25 years ago.

What about employers that left Montgomery County for Northern Virginia - of which there are many, some going back to the late 1970's and early 1980's?

[Mapmikey]

This is also true in the DC metro area.  Despite my own choices here, it would be better for most people to live on the same side of the Potomac as they work, if you don't live and work pretty close to a Metro station.  Though people on this board might find it hard to believe, cross-commuting in the DC area is actually better than it was when I got here 25 years ago.

What about employers that left Montgomery County for Northern Virginia - of which there are many, some going back to the late 1970's and early 1980's?

The handful of those people still in the workforce likely aren't with that company anymore.

The serious answer is that of course it is not necessarily better for the overall existence of an employee to be on the same side of the river (as I clearly indicate with my own commutes in Tidewater and the DMV as examples) but for most people, the commute/traffic (the original point) would be better if people did that.

I suspect what actually happens when an employer moves to Virginia from MC is that many employees do the new commute with the idea of finding a new gig in MC.  Then after a while they find that getting a new comparable job wasn't going to happen and/or the new commute is tolerable enough.  The latter was my experience when I changed jobs from the Quantico MCB Sewage Plant (a dead end job) to my current employer.  We looked for housing in Maryland but did not find anything we though we could afford any closer than Frederick MD, which if that is the commute I switch to, then why bother.

It is also true that people in the live in MC/work in Virginia boat have not seen anywhere near the improvement of commuting that people doing the opposite like me have seen.

[cpzilliacus]

I suspect what actually happens when an employer moves to Virginia from MC is that many employees do the new commute with the idea of finding a new gig in MC.  Then after a while they find that getting a new comparable job wasn't going to happen and/or the new commute is tolerable enough.  The latter was my experience when I changed jobs from the Quantico MCB Sewage Plant (a dead end job) to my current employer.  We looked for housing in Maryland but did not find anything we though we could afford any closer than Frederick MD, which if that is the commute I switch to, then why bother.

It is also true that people in the live in MC/work in Virginia boat have not seen anywhere near the improvement of commuting that people doing the opposite like me have seen.

Problem is that Montgomery County has been losing private-sector jobs for at least the past ten years - and before that, private-sector employment in Montgomery was stagnant.  Montgomery County's elected officials did not even try to keep a big federal agency in the county - the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA) used to have its main office in the Brookmont area of the county (near the D.C. line), though they had a lot of worker bee staff along the VA-267 corridor.   They could probably have consolidated in Montgomery but chose to move to the Fort Belvoir North area in Fairfax County (there were calls from Montgomery County activists that the old NGA campus be converted to parkland, a demand made frequently in Montgomery, but that was rejected by the federal government).

Edited to fix quote.  -Mark

[Jmiles32]

https://www.pilotonline.com/news/transportation/vp-nw-hampton-roads-transportation-plan-20210814-edefhf5lt5bibl2dcgskwm3q44-story.html

This summer, the Hampton Roads Transportation Planning Organization approved a long-range plan that lays out what changes are needed to maintain the way we move around through 2045. It's the culmination of a five-year process.

Here are some major takeaways.

Top projects that are happening

Several major projects are already committed for Hampton Roads, meaning everything is in place and in some cases construction is already underway. In the 2045 plan, that includes:

Expanding the HRBT to add twin two-lane tunnels next to the existing bridge-tunnel, as well as widening Interstate 64. One lane and one drivable shoulder in each direction will be designated as high-occupancy toll lanes, the price of which will vary based on demand. (Estimated price tag: $3.8 billion)
Adding a parallel two-lane tunnel to the Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel. ($925 million)
Adding HOT lanes to I-64 from Jefferson Avenue to Bowers Hill. ($806 million)
Widening I-64 from four to six lanes from the 464 to 664 interchanges, including the High Rise Bridge. One lane and one part-time shoulder will be designated as HOT lanes. ($525 million)
Phase 2 of I-64/I-264 interchange improvements between Newtown and Witchduck roads, increasing the number of eastbound lanes from five to six. ($195 million)
Widening the segment of I-64 in Williamsburg from four to six lanes between exits 242 and 234. ($244 million)

Top projects that could be next

Planners used a data tool that includes dozens of different factors – including safety, environmental impact and congestion – to rank candidate projects. Only work that could fit within the budget made it through. Here are a few of the top regional projects that officials hope will come next:

Widening I-664, including the Bowers Hill interchange, and extending HOT lanes to College Drive in Suffolk. (Estimated price tag: $772 million)
Phase 3 of I-64/I-264 interchange improvements, including constructing bridges on I-64 eastbound over Kempsville Road and Virginia Beach Boulevard and I-264 eastbound over Newtown Road. ($510 million)
Replacing the I-64/I-464 loop ramps in Chesapeake with directional ramps. ($339 million)
Widening I-264 from Witchduck Road to Independence Boulevard with one additional lane and converting the shoulder lane into a travel lane. ($669 million)
Updating the I-264/Independence Boulevard interchange, which Virginia Beach officials say has a high rate of crashes. ($208 million)
Installing a full interchange on I-64 at Denbigh Boulevard in Newport News to reduce congestion. ($220 million)
Birthplace of America Trail in Fort Monroe and Suffolk: Extend the existing 55-mile Virginia Capital Trail for the new trail that will provide over 100 miles of regional bike and pedestrian facilities in Hampton Roads. ($25 million)
South Hampton Roads Trail: Expand regional bike and walking trail from Suffolk to the Virginia Beach Oceanfront. ($25 million)

A few of the things that stand out to me here are:
1. The expensive $220 million price tag for the I-64/Denbigh Blvd interchange and $208 million price tag for the I-264/Independence Blvd interchange.
2. The I-264 widening project which I didn't know was necessary or being planned.
3. The lack of mention of some other needed Hampton Roads transportation projects such as the I-64 Phase IV widening.

[froggie]

64/Denbigh is right next to the CSX tracks.  That's going to play a factor in the cost given the amount of bridging necessary.

264/Independence is expensive because it's a heavily-used cloverleaf and traffic control during construction is going to be costly and a nightmare.

[cpzilliacus]

I have posted an update on White's Ferry in the Maryland forum here.  I put it there and not in the Virginia thread because the ferry itself is in Maryland and is subject to regulation by the State of Maryland. 

[cpzilliacus]

WRIC-TV (Channel 8, Richmond): VDOT removes X-Lite guardrails blamed for deaths from majority of its roads

Three years after 8News first exposed concerns with some guardrails piercing through cars, killing and maiming drivers, The Virginia Department of Transportation has expanded its promise to remove them from the roads.

Previously, VDOT told us it would be removing the guardrails from roads with speed limits of 55 mph or higher. Now, crews have pulled them from all state roads with speeds above 25 mph. It is a sudden shift and 8News has found it may have to do with reports of some horrific accidents at lower speeds.

Guardrails are supposed to be a safety barrier for a car that leaves the roadway. Yet, multiple families across the country have blamed Lindsay X-Lite guardrails for the deaths of their loved ones. The guardrails have pierced, punctured and sliced through vehicles.

[74/171FAN]

^I remember hearing about X-Lite a few years ago at work.  I think PennDOT removed it from Bulletin 15 soon afterward.

[kernals12]

It's sad that it's less expensive to widen VA 7 to 6 lanes than it is to keep it 4 lanes but remove all the signalized intersections.

[froggie]

It's not sad.  It's reality.  Free-flow requires more right-of-way than 12 feet on each side.

[jakeroot]

It's not sad.  It's reality.

Reality can still be sad.

[cpzilliacus]

WTOP Radio: Virginia police union demands end to ticket-writing quotas

Should ticket-writing quotas be banned in Virginia? A police union that represents 750 state troopers says it's working with members of the General Assembly to write a law that would make such quotas illegal.

The Virginia Police Benevolent Association says quotas shouldn't be allowed because they increase negative interactions with the public and are an outdated and ineffective form of policing. Eliminating quotas, the union said, would decrease the number of arbitrary tickets written and improve relations between police officers and the community.

State police officials deny that they impose quotas on troopers. But the Richmond Times-Dispatch obtained an email in which a supervisor told his troopers they should write at least five tickets a day.

The police acknowledged the email to the newspaper, but said the supervisor was talking about benchmarks – not quotas. Another supervisor – a senior state police commander – also recently told troopers in an email they should be writing at least five tickets a day, or else their evaluations would be poor.

[hbelkins]

^^^

Police agencies routinely deny they have quotas.

However, a very close (now retired and since deceased) friend of mine was a city police officer for many years. His agency was the recipient of a federal overtime grant. He told me a condition of that grant was that they write a certain number of citations each day, when he broke off a chance encounter with me one day while he was on duty. Sure enough, a few minutes later, I passed by him with a driver pulled over (ostensibly for speeding or a seat belt violation).

[bluecountry]

Questions on I-95 in VA:

1) The local/express configuration at 495/95 to MD is 3 local/2 express across the bridge, but it appears there is ample need and space to make it 3 local/3 express, why isn't it this way and are there plans?

2) The 95 widening to Fredericksburg, so after/south of Route 3 is 95 going from 3 local/3 express to just 3 regular lanes?
-I thought they were going to extend this to exit 126 or at least do a 'super ramp' exit there for Rt 1/17.

[oscar]

1) The local/express configuration at 495/95 to MD is 3 local/2 express across the bridge, but it appears there is ample need and space to make it 3 local/3 express, why isn't it this way and are there plans?

When the new Woodrow Wilson bridges were built, extra room was built for the express lanes, to preserve the option of light rail tracks or bus-only lanes. I don't know of any firm plans to use that extra room.

[1995hoo]

The I-95 HO/T lanes will end (or begin, depending on your point of view) just north of Exit 133. From there to some point south of Exit 130 (VA-3) they'll be using a local/thru configuration like the Wilson Bridge on which the "thru" lanes are not tolled and are instead designed to segregate long-distance traffic from traffic entering or exiting at US-17 and VA-3. I believe there'll be a basketweave-style configuration (somewhat similar to the location of that name in Toronto) to implement the transition between the HO/T lane part of the road and the local/thru area, as HO/T traffic will have the option of continuing straight into the thru lanes or using a ramp to the local lanes, while general-purpose-lanes traffic will likewise have the option of continuing straight into the local lanes of using left-side access to the thru lanes.

[bluecountry]

The I-95 HO/T lanes will end (or begin, depending on your point of view) just north of Exit 133. From there to some point south of Exit 130 (VA-3) they'll be using a local/thru configuration like the Wilson Bridge on which the "thru" lanes are not tolled and are instead designed to segregate long-distance traffic from traffic entering or exiting at US-17 and VA-3. I believe there'll be a basketweave-style configuration (somewhat similar to the location of that name in Toronto) to implement the transition between the HO/T lane part of the road and the local/thru area, as HO/T traffic will have the option of continuing straight into the thru lanes or using a ramp to the local lanes, while general-purpose-lanes traffic will likewise have the option of continuing straight into the local lanes of using left-side access to the thru lanes.

But what happens after Rt 3?
Is it 3 lanes?
What about exit 126 (17/1) superamp?

[cpzilliacus]

1) The local/express configuration at 495/95 to MD is 3 local/2 express across the bridge, but it appears there is ample need and space to make it 3 local/3 express, why isn't it this way and are there plans?

When the new Woodrow Wilson bridges were built, extra room was built for the express lanes, to preserve the option of light rail tracks or bus-only lanes. I don't know of any firm plans to use that extra room.

WMATA was involved in planning for the new Wilson Bridge, and that left lane (currently not used as a travel lane) was built to accommodate a rail line, should one be desired.  But it is important to note that the design did not include a way to get trains off the bridge and into the National Harbor area in Prince George's County, Maryland which was laid-out and developed in its current form after the bridge plans were finalized.  So there would have to be significant re-engineering and re-design work (and new and expensive flyovers for rail would be needed) to get trains to run to National Harbor.

Last time I heard any discussion of this (quite a few years ago), the Maryland Department of Transportation's response to a possible rail line across the Wilson Bridge was a firm no.

[1995hoo]

The I-95 HO/T lanes will end (or begin, depending on your point of view) just north of Exit 133. From there to some point south of Exit 130 (VA-3) they'll be using a local/thru configuration like the Wilson Bridge on which the "thru" lanes are not tolled and are instead designed to segregate long-distance traffic from traffic entering or exiting at US-17 and VA-3. I believe there'll be a basketweave-style configuration (somewhat similar to the location of that name in Toronto) to implement the transition between the HO/T lane part of the road and the local/thru area, as HO/T traffic will have the option of continuing straight into the thru lanes or using a ramp to the local lanes, while general-purpose-lanes traffic will likewise have the option of continuing straight into the local lanes of using left-side access to the thru lanes.

But what happens after Rt 3?
Is it 3 lanes?
What about exit 126 (17/1) superamp?

I don't know. Try http://virginiadot.org and look for the page with construction info.

[Mapmikey]

Express lanes will also be able to exit directly to US 17 at Exit 133 without getting in the CD lanes or the mainline 95 lanes.

South of VA 3, I-95 will still be 3 lanes.  They are getting ready to do a project to widen the off-ramp at Exit 126 to 2 lanes and extend a transtion lane on US 1-17 south from that ramp in an effort to keep traffic from backing up onto I-95 SB.