In 1990, Clavey Rd was underpassed after numerous accidents. One would have thought that by now, intersections at Park Av. and IL22 (Half Day Rd.) in Highland Park and Old Elm Rd., Westleigh Rd. even IL60 in Lake Forest would have been at least on the drawing board scheduled for an upgrade (separation).
Keepin' it real. Quaint. Sure ISTHA would put the kibosh on anything resembling competition for their cash cow.
How many intersections are even left on all of US41? Bet most are in Chicago and S Lakeco.
Quote from: dzlsabe on December 06, 2015, 12:20:38 AM
Last I remember, it was Clavey Rd after numerous accidents. One would have thought that by now, intersections at Park Av. and IL22 (Half Day Rd.) in Highland Park and Old Elm Rd., Westleigh Rd. even IL60 in Lake Forest would have been at least on the drawing board scheduled for an upgrade (separation).
Keepin' it real. Quaint. Sure ISTHA would put the kibosh on anything resembling competition.
How many intersections are even left on all of US41? Bet most are in Chicago and S Lakeco.
US 41 (Skokie Highway) is still mostly intersections throughout Lake County.
Mike
I don't know how powerful the ISTHA is, but other than possibly bitch about it and stamp their foot what could they do to stop it?
As usual for Illinois, the problem is likely that they have no money to do what you're suggesting.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on December 06, 2015, 02:39:58 AM
I don't know how powerful the ISTHA is, but other than possibly bitch about it and stamp their foot what could they do to stop it?
As usual for Illinois, the problem is likely that they have no money to do what you're suggesting.
ISTHA couldn't stop it, but US-41 there mostly serves local, not through traffic. There's also no room for any interchanges, and it's not IDOT's way to improve a road from a surface expressway to a full freeway. They have historically always chosen a new alignment.
They pull a EOE and just toll it. I can try to make a quick plan.
If there are any improvements to US 41 in Lake County, the County is much more likely to be the lead agency than IDOT, as is the case with the current study for the Wadsworth Road intersection (link) (http://www.wadsworthintersections.com/).
Brandon's mostly right...not much room in the corridor to add interchanges. But there's a couple spots where I think interchanges may be possible (albeit expensive). Wadsworth Rd as Revive 755 mentioned, but I also think an (expensive) interchange would be possible at IL 137. The latter would also have the benefit of bridging the busy IL 137 over the railroad.
Lake County Challenge Bond Program funding is programmed to begin construction of a grade separted jug handle at US 41 and Wadsworth Rd in early 2018 assuming a 2 year Phase 2 completion period programmed from early 2016 to early 2018.
Phase 2 is scheduled for completion in mid 2016 for interchange improvements at US 41 and IL 176. Since its an IDOT project, its funding is uncertain of course. No mention on the website of funding. IDOT FY 2016 - 2020 road improvement program in Lake county has no funds programmed for US 41 and IL 176 interchange improvements.
http://www.idot.illinois.gov/Assets/uploads/files/Transportation-System/Maps-&-Charts/proposed-improvements/myp2015/counties/lake.pdf (http://www.idot.illinois.gov/Assets/uploads/files/Transportation-System/Maps-&-Charts/proposed-improvements/myp2015/counties/lake.pdf)
Quote from: froggie on December 09, 2015, 08:34:21 AM
Brandon's mostly right...not much room in the corridor to add interchanges. But there's a couple spots where I think interchanges may be possible (albeit expensive). Wadsworth Rd as Revive 755 mentioned, but I also think an (expensive) interchange would be possible at IL 137. The latter would also have the benefit of bridging the busy IL 137 over the railroad.
I think one could probably be added at IL 60 as well. There's supposed to be a partial realignment of US 41 around there some decade, but I don't recall seeing any mention of that including an interchange.
Grade separating the Michigan left intersection at US 41 and Rt 22 I think could be done in the existing right of way. What ever that type of intersection is called where no turns are allowed at the intersection and all turns occur off of and onto the frontage roads, like the Junio Expesswary intersections on Palatine Rd. Just tunnel underneath Rt 22. d
Quote from: Revive 755 on December 11, 2015, 10:28:16 PM
Quote from: froggie on December 09, 2015, 08:34:21 AM
Brandon's mostly right...not much room in the corridor to add interchanges. But there's a couple spots where I think interchanges may be possible (albeit expensive). Wadsworth Rd as Revive 755 mentioned, but I also think an (expensive) interchange would be possible at IL 137. The latter would also have the benefit of bridging the busy IL 137 over the railroad.
I think one could probably be added at IL 60 as well. There's supposed to be a partial realignment of US 41 around there some decade, but I don't recall seeing any mention of that including an interchange.
I'm not too familiar with the area, but it seems that the tight roundabout interchanges like have been built on Keystone Parkway in Carmel might be a partial solution. SR 37 in Fishers will get the same treatment as Keystone got, and that area looks to be possibly even more built up than US 41. Of course there is the issue of cost. The SR 37 project will cost $124M, and I am not sure how much funding IDOT has available. I think the Keystone Parkway project which consisted of rebuilding the roadway and building five such interchanges (12 roundabouts in total) cost $90M.
Was over Milwaukee AV. at Dempster (US 14) today. Thats what looks like needs to happen at Park Av. and IL 22, maybe Old Elm someday?
Quote from: dzlsabe on June 03, 2016, 11:45:41 PM
Was over Milwaukee AV. at Dempster (US 14) today. Thats what looks like needs to happen at Park Av. and IL 22, maybe Old Elm someday?
Built in 1920's / 1930's
It would make far more sense to upgrade US 12 then it would US 41. While I know US 12 will never be a full freeway through Lake County it would be nice to see at least some of the stoplights eliminated. Particularly the one at IL-120.
Quote from: dvferyance on June 04, 2016, 03:18:39 PM
It would make far more sense to upgrade US 12 then it would US 41. While I know US 12 will never be a full freeway through Lake County it would be nice to see at least some of the stoplights eliminated. Particularly the one at IL-120.
Build 53
Quote from: dvferyance on June 04, 2016, 03:18:39 PM
It would make far more sense to upgrade US 12 then it would US 41. While I know US 12 will never be a full freeway through Lake County it would be nice to see at least some of the stoplights eliminated. Particularly the one at IL-120.
It would make far more sense to YOU maybe. Apples and Oranges. US 12 and 41. One has no bearing on the other. In completely different parts of the county affecting whole different sets of motorists. Is US 41 not worthy to get a few stoplights eliminated as well?
Quote from: dzlsabe on June 04, 2016, 09:11:09 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on June 04, 2016, 03:18:39 PM
It would make far more sense to upgrade US 12 then it would US 41. While I know US 12 will never be a full freeway through Lake County it would be nice to see at least some of the stoplights eliminated. Particularly the one at IL-120.
It would make far more sense to YOU maybe. Apples and Oranges. US 12 and 41. One has no bearing on the other. In completely different parts of the county affecting whole different sets of motorists. Is US 41 not worthy to get a few stoplights eliminated as well?
I am all for elimination of stoplights when and wherever can be achieved! In the case of Lake County, both US 12 and US 41 badly could use upgrades in certain sections. I also believe, especially in the case of US 12, Lake County needs to improve the highway lighting (for some reason, of all the Chicago collar counties, it seems to come up behind the others in this area).
Quote from: dzlsabe on June 04, 2016, 09:11:09 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on June 04, 2016, 03:18:39 PM
It would make far more sense to upgrade US 12 then it would US 41. While I know US 12 will never be a full freeway through Lake County it would be nice to see at least some of the stoplights eliminated. Particularly the one at IL-120.
It would make far more sense to YOU maybe. Apples and Oranges. US 12 and 41. One has no bearing on the other. In completely different parts of the county affecting whole different sets of motorists. Is US 41 not worthy to get a few stoplights eliminated as well?
US 41 runs parallel just within a few miles of I-94 vs US 12 which is the major route through eastern Lake County and will be a good long distance route from Chicago to Madison. That makes a huge difference.
Quote from: dvferyance on June 06, 2016, 06:05:13 PM
Quote from: dzlsabe on June 04, 2016, 09:11:09 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on June 04, 2016, 03:18:39 PM
It would make far more sense to upgrade US 12 then it would US 41. While I know US 12 will never be a full freeway through Lake County it would be nice to see at least some of the stoplights eliminated. Particularly the one at IL-120.
It would make far more sense to YOU maybe. Apples and Oranges. US 12 and 41. One has no bearing on the other. In completely different parts of the county affecting whole different sets of motorists. Is US 41 not worthy to get a few stoplights eliminated as well?
US 41 runs parallel just within a few miles of I-94 vs US 12 which is the major route through eastern Lake County and will be a good long distance route from Chicago to Madison. That makes a huge difference.
Actually, at LakeCook and Deerfield, US 41 and I-94 are about five miles apart with fifteen or so stoplights on each between them. In about as high-density suburbia as there is. And a good part of that traffic stems from the half-worthless ISTHA Edens Spur. So NO, US 41 and I-94 are not "substitutes" for either in anyway. Certainly, they get much closer as one goes north. The last true upgrade to this part of US 41 was in the '90s at Clavey Rd. The stupidest toll road in America (Edens Spur) has not seen one since it was built in '58?
US 12 is in western Lakeco and has no bearing on eastern. Apples, oranges, tomatoes. BTW Lakeco is about 25 miles wide.
If a parallel to US 12, Chicago (or Ohare?) to Madison or Eau Claire or MSP is desired, an easy way would be by rail, like it used to be, before 1972. THAT would be a great long distance route making a huge difference.
Quote from: dzlsabe on June 07, 2016, 12:27:22 AM
Quote from: dvferyance on June 06, 2016, 06:05:13 PM
Quote from: dzlsabe on June 04, 2016, 09:11:09 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on June 04, 2016, 03:18:39 PM
It would make far more sense to upgrade US 12 then it would US 41. While I know US 12 will never be a full freeway through Lake County it would be nice to see at least some of the stoplights eliminated. Particularly the one at IL-120.
It would make far more sense to YOU maybe. Apples and Oranges. US 12 and 41. One has no bearing on the other. In completely different parts of the county affecting whole different sets of motorists. Is US 41 not worthy to get a few stoplights eliminated as well?
US 41 runs parallel just within a few miles of I-94 vs US 12 which is the major route through eastern Lake County and will be a good long distance route from Chicago to Madison. That makes a huge difference.
Actually, at LakeCook and Deerfield, US 41 and I-94 are about five miles apart with fifteen or so stoplights on each between them. In about as high-density suburbia as there is. And a good part of that traffic stems from the half-worthless ISTHA Edens Spur. So NO, US 41 and I-94 are not "substitutes" for either in anyway. Certainly, they get much closer as one goes north. The last true upgrade to this part of US 41 was in the '90s at Clavey Rd. The stupidest toll road in America has not seen one since it was built in '58?
Uh just had a major upgrade done about 10 years ago. Expanded from 6 lanes to 8.
"Uh just had a major upgrade done about 10 years ago. Expanded from 6 lanes to 8."
The Tristate? Irrelevant in regards to US 41 or the stupidest toll road in America, the Edens Spur.
yawn
Quote from: dzlsabe on June 07, 2016, 09:02:19 PM
"Uh just had a major upgrade done about 10 years ago. Expanded from 6 lanes to 8."
The Tristate? Irrelevant in regards to US 41 or the stupidest toll road in America, the Edens Spur.
Why the hate for the Edens Spur? Yeah, I agree the connections with the Edens Expressway are undersized but otherwise the road serves its purpose, providing a connection between he Edens Expressway and the Tri-State. I use it quite frequently when driving from Chicago to Milwaukee.
Quote from: dzlsabe on June 07, 2016, 12:27:22 AM
Quote from: dvferyance on June 06, 2016, 06:05:13 PM
Quote from: dzlsabe on June 04, 2016, 09:11:09 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on June 04, 2016, 03:18:39 PM
It would make far more sense to upgrade US 12 then it would US 41. While I know US 12 will never be a full freeway through Lake County it would be nice to see at least some of the stoplights eliminated. Particularly the one at IL-120.
It would make far more sense to YOU maybe. Apples and Oranges. US 12 and 41. One has no bearing on the other. In completely different parts of the county affecting whole different sets of motorists. Is US 41 not worthy to get a few stoplights eliminated as well?
US 41 runs parallel just within a few miles of I-94 vs US 12 which is the major route through eastern Lake County and will be a good long distance route from Chicago to Madison. That makes a huge difference.
Actually, at LakeCook and Deerfield, US 41 and I-94 are about five miles apart with fifteen or so stoplights on each between them.
Unless the trip involves a stop in Deerfield, using Deerfield Road between the Tri-State and US 41 would be illogical, especially with the two lane bottleneck between I-94 and just west of IL 43. Much better to use IL 22 (2.77 miles, around 8 stoplights, 1 railroad crossing) or Lake Cook Road (3.78 miles with good signal coordination).
Quote from: dzlsabe on June 07, 2016, 12:27:22 AMIn about as high-density suburbia as there is.
I think not. Per Wikipedia:
Density of Deerfield: 3,313 / sq mi
Density of Park Ridge: 5,286.3/sq mi
Density of Oak Park: 11,037.9 / sq mi
Density of Berwyn: 14,564/sq mi
Quote from: dzlsabe on June 07, 2016, 12:27:22 AMAnd a good part of that traffic stems from the half-worthless ISTHA Edens Spur.
Please provide a link to or a scan from an origin-destination study to verify this.
Quote from: dzlsabe on June 07, 2016, 12:27:22 AMSo no, US 41 and I-94 are not "substitutes" for either in anyway.
Maybe for a verify small number of trips. But if I want to go from the Loop to somewhere in Wisconsin along I-94, I can take either the Edens and US 41 northward for the cost of lower speed limits and many stoplights, or I can pony up a little in tolls for a stoplight free trip and stay on I-94. Certainly much better than trying to avoid using US 12.
Quote from: dzlsabe on June 07, 2016, 12:27:22 AMUS 12 is in western Lakeco and has no bearing on eastern.
It certainly would have a bearing funding wise when either IDOT or the County start considering improvements.
Quote from: jwags on June 07, 2016, 09:34:59 PM
Quote from: dzlsabe on June 07, 2016, 09:02:19 PM
"Uh just had a major upgrade done about 10 years ago. Expanded from 6 lanes to 8."
The Tristate? Irrelevant in regards to US 41 or the stupidest toll road in America, the Edens Spur.
Why the hate for the Edens Spur? Yeah, I agree the connections with the Edens Expressway are undersized but otherwise the road serves its purpose, providing a connection between he Edens Expressway and the Tri-State. I use it quite frequently when driving from Chicago to Milwaukee.
The "HATE" is for its half-worthlessness (ie stupidity) of not being able to go south on the Tristate (like to Ohare maybe) or if heading EB, first possible exit is Tower Rd. almost two miles south on Edens.
"Unless the trip involves a stop in Deerfield, using Deerfield Road between the Tri-State and US 41 would be illogical, especially with the two lane bottleneck between I-94 and just west of IL 43. Much better to use IL 22 (2.77 miles, around 8 stoplights, 1 railroad crossing) or Lake Cook Road (3.78 miles with good signal coordination)" Huh? :rofl:
Yes Mr. Spock "illogical"...except that (Willow, LakeCook, Deerfield, IL 22) is the ONLY freakin' way to get to/fro ORD from these parts. And thats the point! A perfectly good, 5-mile east-west toll road, but NOOO...youve gotta take the local roads because some ISTHA DFs with slide-rules in 1958 had departmental brain freeze. :pan:
"Please provide a link to or a scan from an origin-destination study to verify this." NO. Its common local knowledge (and plain old-fashioned map-reading) that the Spur does NOT go to SB Tristate.
Think I just make this shit up? "Chicagoland"....three lefts make a right!
Back to the topic...Milwaukee Av. over Dempster (US 14) looks like the kind of thing that would work at US 41 and Park Av. as well as IL 22 YES???
Quote from: jwags on June 07, 2016, 09:34:59 PM
Quote from: dzlsabe on June 07, 2016, 09:02:19 PM
"Uh just had a major upgrade done about 10 years ago. Expanded from 6 lanes to 8."
The Tristate? Irrelevant in regards to US 41 or the stupidest toll road in America, the Edens Spur.
Why the hate for the Edens Spur? Yeah, I agree the connections with the Edens Expressway are undersized but otherwise the road serves its purpose, providing a connection between he Edens Expressway and the Tri-State. I use it quite frequently when driving from Chicago to Milwaukee.
I use it quite frequently from commuting from my home in Rogers Park to my place of work in Riverwoods.
Why would someone drive out of their way southeastward on US 41, then double back west on the Edens Spur? More direct to go to the Tri-State first. Certainly much easier to get to a freeway-grade facility than it is for most of Lake County.
Quote from: dzlsabe on June 07, 2016, 11:48:17 PM"Please provide a link to or a scan from an origin-destination study to verify this." NO. Its common local knowledge (and plain old-fashioned map-reading) that the Spur does NOT go to SB Tristate.
Please reread the statement and provide data on "that traffic".
Quote from: dzlsabe on June 07, 2016, 12:27:22 AM
Quote from: dvferyance on June 06, 2016, 06:05:13 PM
Quote from: dzlsabe on June 04, 2016, 09:11:09 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on June 04, 2016, 03:18:39 PM
It would make far more sense to upgrade US 12 then it would US 41. While I know US 12 will never be a full freeway through Lake County it would be nice to see at least some of the stoplights eliminated. Particularly the one at IL-120.
It would make far more sense to YOU maybe. Apples and Oranges. US 12 and 41. One has no bearing on the other. In completely different parts of the county affecting whole different sets of motorists. Is US 41 not worthy to get a few stoplights eliminated as well?
US 41 runs parallel just within a few miles of I-94 vs US 12 which is the major route through eastern Lake County and will be a good long distance route from Chicago to Madison. That makes a huge difference.
Actually, at LakeCook and Deerfield, US 41 and I-94 are about five miles apart with fifteen or so stoplights on each between them. In about as high-density suburbia as there is. And a good part of that traffic stems from the half-worthless ISTHA Edens Spur. So NO, US 41 and I-94 are not "substitutes" for either in anyway. Certainly, they get much closer as one goes north. The last true upgrade to this part of US 41 was in the '90s at Clavey Rd. The stupidest toll road in America (Edens Spur) has not seen one since it was built in '58?
US 12 is in western Lakeco and has no bearing on eastern. Apples, oranges, tomatoes. BTW Lakeco is about 25 miles wide.
If a parallel to US 12, Chicago (or Ohare?) to Madison or Eau Claire or MSP is desired, an easy way would be by rail, like it used to be, before 1972. THAT would be a great long distance route making a huge difference.
Let's close the Edens Spur for a week and then see how useless it is.
Quote from: dzlsabe on December 06, 2015, 12:20:38 AM
How many intersections are even left on all of US41?
Just in Illinois? I count at least 80.
Quote from: Revive 755 on June 08, 2016, 10:55:04 PM
Why would someone drive out of their way southeastward on US 41, then double back west on the Edens Spur? More direct to go to the Tri-State first. Certainly much easier to get to a freeway-grade facility than it is for most of Lake County.
Quote from: dzlsabe on June 07, 2016, 11:48:17 PM"Please provide a link to or a scan from an origin-destination study to verify this." NO. Its common local knowledge (and plain old-fashioned map-reading) that the Spur does NOT go to SB Tristate.
Please reread the statement and provide data on "that traffic".
Huh? Readjust your compass (map). US 41 is going SOUTH/north. Ill grant you one-click east/west because of the LAKE, but not "southeastward".
And "Let's close the Edens Spur for a week and then see how useless it is." Its actually been CLOSED for the ~50% of traffic that could/SHOULD be on it for SIXTY years.
Again, this is just the stupid "bridging south Lakeco US 41 topic". But I understand the confusion as they are related.
Even our highway engineers cant quite figure out which way we are going.
Quote from: dzlsabe on June 10, 2016, 12:51:18 AMReadjust your compass (map). US 41 is going SOUTH/north. Ill grant you one-click east/west because of the LAKE, but not "southeastward".
When putting the compass on IDOT's ADT map up on top of US 41 south of IL 60, US 41 does not line up with both the north and south arrows - definitely not pure north-south.
Quote from: dzlsabe on June 10, 2016, 12:51:18 AM
And "Let's close the Edens Spur for a week and then see how useless it is." Its actually been CLOSED for the ~50% of traffic that could/SHOULD be on it for SIXTY years.
A road with 54,000 ADT is useless? Sure . . .
Please provide a link or a scan of an origin destination study indicating there is that much unserved demand due to the incomplete connections on the Edens Spur. I'm pretty sure there is at least some relevant study in a government archive or library out there.
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And let us consider the area served by US 41. I get around four miles at most between I-94 and US 41, and two miles at most between US 41 and the Lake. Whereas for the proposed location of the IL 53 extension, I get around seven miles between the north-south section and I-94, and around six to seven miles west to US 12. Certainly more to be served by either the IL 53 Tollway or a US 12 upgrade compared to a US 41 upgrade.
Quote from: dzlsabe on June 10, 2016, 12:51:18 AM
Quote from: Revive 755 on June 08, 2016, 10:55:04 PM
Why would someone drive out of their way southeastward on US 41, then double back west on the Edens Spur? More direct to go to the Tri-State first. Certainly much easier to get to a freeway-grade facility than it is for most of Lake County.
Quote from: dzlsabe on June 07, 2016, 11:48:17 PM"Please provide a link to or a scan from an origin-destination study to verify this." NO. Its common local knowledge (and plain old-fashioned map-reading) that the Spur does NOT go to SB Tristate.
Please reread the statement and provide data on "that traffic".
And "Let's close the Edens Spur for a week and then see how useless it is." Its actually been CLOSED for the ~50% of traffic that could/SHOULD be on it for SIXTY years.
Huh? All traffic is free to use it.
"Let's close the Edens Spur for a week and then see how useless it is." Its actually been CLOSED for the ~50% of traffic that could/SHOULD be on it for SIXTY years.
"Huh? All traffic is free to use it."
No, actually only NB Edens traffic originating south of Tower Rd. or SB Tristate traffic originating north of Deerfield Rd. is "tolled" to use it. Yes, there is a WB entrance & EB exit at Waukegan Rd., but thats still SEVEN miles between Tower and Deerfield (with only an exit at Dundee or US 41 possible) that excludes a bunch of traffic that must use the five local EW roads to get to/from south Tristate and Ohare.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.1347818,-87.8161941,13z
This is barely related to US 41 in SE Lakeco.