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Future of I-72 in Missouri?

Started by jhuntin1, December 11, 2014, 09:40:14 PM

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silverback1065

Quote from: adt1982 on January 03, 2015, 08:27:19 PM
Quote from: codyg1985 on January 02, 2015, 09:58:51 PM
If I-70 is tolled, then I don't see any upgrades happening to US 36 in Missouri. In fact, it may be tolled too, to discourage diversion from I-70.

Tolling 36 would be an enormously expensive undertaking.  I don't see that happening.

I don't even think you're allowed to toll a us highway by rule i thought they must always be the free alternate


Big John

Quote from: silverback1065 on March 16, 2015, 11:43:59 AM
I don't even think you're allowed to toll a us highway by rule i thought they must always be the free alternate
US 51 is tolled in northern Illinois where it is concurrent with I-39/90.

Brandon

Quote from: Big John on March 16, 2015, 11:58:37 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on March 16, 2015, 11:43:59 AM
I don't even think you're allowed to toll a us highway by rule i thought they must always be the free alternate

US 51 is tolled in northern Illinois where it is concurrent with I-39/90.

Yep.  Between Exits 3 and 17 (yes, ISTHA has exit numbers now).  The free alternate is IL-251, a four-lane and divided highway (north of downtown Rockford).
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

silverback1065

Quote from: Brandon on March 16, 2015, 12:48:12 PM
Quote from: Big John on March 16, 2015, 11:58:37 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on March 16, 2015, 11:43:59 AM
I don't even think you're allowed to toll a us highway by rule i thought they must always be the free alternate

US 51 is tolled in northern Illinois where it is concurrent with I-39/90.

Yep.  Between Exits 3 and 17 (yes, ISTHA has exit numbers now).  The free alternate is IL-251, a four-lane and divided highway (north of downtown Rockford).

So I guess the rule, if there really is one, is just another state road of any kind parallel that's free?

Henry

Quote from: silverback1065 on March 16, 2015, 11:43:59 AM
Quote from: adt1982 on January 03, 2015, 08:27:19 PM
Quote from: codyg1985 on January 02, 2015, 09:58:51 PM
If I-70 is tolled, then I don't see any upgrades happening to US 36 in Missouri. In fact, it may be tolled too, to discourage diversion from I-70.

Tolling 36 would be an enormously expensive undertaking.  I don't see that happening.

I don't even think you're allowed to toll a us highway by rule i thought they must always be the free alternate
I believe that even if they do toll I-70, US 36 will not be tolled along with it, because two parallel tolled highways would never be allowed within a certain distance of each other (see the IN Toll Road as a prime example).
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!

Brandon

Quote from: Henry on March 16, 2015, 12:50:57 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on March 16, 2015, 11:43:59 AM
Quote from: adt1982 on January 03, 2015, 08:27:19 PM
Quote from: codyg1985 on January 02, 2015, 09:58:51 PM
If I-70 is tolled, then I don't see any upgrades happening to US 36 in Missouri. In fact, it may be tolled too, to discourage diversion from I-70.

Tolling 36 would be an enormously expensive undertaking.  I don't see that happening.

I don't even think you're allowed to toll a us highway by rule i thought they must always be the free alternate

I believe that even if they do toll I-70, US 36 will not be tolled along with it, because two parallel tolled highways would never be allowed within a certain distance of each other (see the IN Toll Road as a prime example).

That's only because of an agreement between InDOT and the lessee of the Toll Road.  A better example would be the Northwest Tollway (I-90) and the East-West Tollway (I-88) in Illinois between the Tri-State (I-294) and I-39.  Both toll, and both fairly close to each other.
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

bugo

Two stretches of US 412 are tolled.

skluth

Quote from: Brandon on March 16, 2015, 12:57:41 PM
Quote from: Henry on March 16, 2015, 12:50:57 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on March 16, 2015, 11:43:59 AM
Quote from: adt1982 on January 03, 2015, 08:27:19 PM
Quote from: codyg1985 on January 02, 2015, 09:58:51 PM
If I-70 is tolled, then I don't see any upgrades happening to US 36 in Missouri. In fact, it may be tolled too, to discourage diversion from I-70.

Tolling 36 would be an enormously expensive undertaking.  I don't see that happening.

I don't even think you're allowed to toll a us highway by rule i thought they must always be the free alternate

I believe that even if they do toll I-70, US 36 will not be tolled along with it, because two parallel tolled highways would never be allowed within a certain distance of each other (see the IN Toll Road as a prime example).

That's only because of an agreement between InDOT and the lessee of the Toll Road.  A better example would be the Northwest Tollway (I-90) and the East-West Tollway (I-88) in Illinois between the Tri-State (I-294) and I-39.  Both toll, and both fairly close to each other.

As are the Tri-State and I 355.

3467

MO could toll it a an arterial now with tolling technology and upgrade it or not upgrade it
http://www.120now.com/

There is no federal problem like I-70 which needs fed approval . I don't know what if any state approval it would need

NE2

Quote from: 3467 on March 17, 2015, 11:23:25 PM
MO could toll it a an arterial now with tolling technology and upgrade it or not upgrade it
Pretty sure they can't without federal approval if federal funds were used to build it.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

3467

Mo paid for most of the 4 lane upgrade -some was from a local sales tax I recall. The original road who knows . Most of Illinois roads the main paved corridors were paid for and numbered under the state bond issues . I don't know about MO
Practically speaking I just don't see the feds caring -The way things are going I suspect they would declare it innovative financing

3467

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ipd/fact_sheets/tolling_programs.aspx
It is on the Federal aid system but looks like a lot of options for tolls now .

NE2

Quote from: 3467 on March 18, 2015, 11:26:48 PM
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ipd/fact_sheets/tolling_programs.aspx
It is on the Federal aid system but looks like a lot of options for tolls now .
The only one I see that might apply to US 36 is "reconstruction of highways (non-Interstate only)". So I guess they could toll it to pay for improvements, as if they're needed.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

Scott5114

Quote from: 3467 on March 17, 2015, 11:23:25 PM
and upgrade it or not upgrade it

When did MoDOT start subcontracting to alanDOT?
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

Brandon

"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

mgk920

Quote from: codyg1985 on January 20, 2015, 06:50:54 AM
Quote from: bugo on January 20, 2015, 02:39:30 AM
Quote from: Gnutella on January 19, 2015, 06:40:57 PM
If they ever upgrade U.S. 36 to I-72 in Missouri, then it needs to end at I-29, not I-35. That way, St. Joseph will be served by two Interstates.

One thing that needs to be done regardless is for the highway to be graded properly, especially in Linn County. Linn County widened U.S. 36 before anyplace else in northern Missouri, but all they did was build a new set of lanes alongside the original alignment, so they ended up with the new set of lanes being properly graded and relatively flat while the original alignment followed the lay of the land. The most glaring example of this is between Marceline and the Macon County line, where the westbound lanes are nice and flat, but the eastbound lanes are a roller coaster. There's a similar effect on U.S. 63 in Macon County between Macon and the Randolph County line, though the lay of the land there isn't quite as dissected as it is in eastern Linn County.

Basically, MoDOT needs to eliminate the roller coaster rides on some of their four-lane highways.

That's the classic "Missouri Expressway".

Or Virginia Twinning, as it is also known.

Alabama also did that along US 72 between Scottsboro and Stevenson. And Mississippi did it along US 72 between Corinth and Burnsville.

WisDOT did that on a lengthy part of WI 57 south of Plymouth, WI back in the 1950s or 1960s.  They have since rebuilt the highway's original northbound side to match the newer, much flatter southbound side (done during the late 1990s or early 2000s).  One can also notice that effect, but to a much more subtle extent, on US(I)-41 in the area just south of WI 28.

As for the here and there upgrades of US 71 (now I-49), that is an 'S.O.P.' thing with WisDOT (see US(I)-41, WI 29, etc).  US 41 (south of about Neenah to metro Milwaukee, especially) was built on its existing grade as a two-lane rural highway in the late 1940s and has been steadily upgraded to now full interstate standards ever since.

Mike

Revive 755

Dusting off this topic based on a recent article news article expressing a desire to move the western terminus of I-72 a little farther west:

Hannibal Courier-Post:  Interstate designation makes Marion County transportation priority list

mvak36

#42
Cool. Slowly making its way westward. :)


I wonder how much work they have to do before it becomes an interstate. Google Maps shows that stretch as a freeway.
Counties: Counties visited
Travel Mapping: Summary

DJStephens

That area (Hannibal) was one of a handful of counties to vote for a boost in the MO state fuel tax increase that failed in the early 00's.  They should get the designation.   

Henry

While I-72 may or may not make it all the way across the state, at least this is a start. And it would be a great shunpike between Kansas City and St. Louis if I-70 ever gets tolled, which will not happen now (but just in case it does).
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!

I-39

Maybe it will put pressure to upgrade the remaining portions to Interstate 72 if/when the Missouri Transportation funding issues are fixed. Seriously, it should happen at some point (I-72 extended to I-35 or I-29).

SteveG1988

It isn't a bad ride right now. Just nothing really along it for truck stops/parking. Put some parking areas on it and you will have a nice bypass of 70 going on for trucks.
Roads Clinched

I55,I82,I84(E&W)I88(W),I87(N),I81,I64,I74(W),I72,I57,I24,I65,I59,I12,I71,I77,I76(E&W),I70,I79,I85,I86(W),I27,I16,I97,I96,I43,I41,

codyg1985

It seems like without interstate upgrades US 36 would be a good alternative to I-70 since it is four lanes across the state.
Cody Goodman
Huntsville, AL, United States

SteveG1988

Quote from: codyg1985 on February 24, 2016, 07:25:12 AM
It seems like without interstate upgrades US 36 would be a good alternative to I-70 since it is four lanes across the state.

I've used it just like that. Using what should be the CKC freeway. not whatever 110 does
Roads Clinched

I55,I82,I84(E&W)I88(W),I87(N),I81,I64,I74(W),I72,I57,I24,I65,I59,I12,I71,I77,I76(E&W),I70,I79,I85,I86(W),I27,I16,I97,I96,I43,I41,

The Ghostbuster

If I had my way, Interstate 72 would go all the way across Missouri, and would also follow the short US 36 freeway in Kansas, just west of St. Joseph.



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