I drive the stretch of I-95 thru Delaware & Pa & I've noticed that the flow of traffic is driving at higher speeds of 95+. Almost felt like I was on the NJTP. Is this, because more people driving on the roads or the completion of construction projects around the area is relieving some of the traffic headaches we all know of.
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Sometimes you can just get in a pack of traffic flying.
And sometimes, one car doing 60 in the left lane bunches things up to the point where you can't get any speed.
I'm used to traffic flowing at a steady 60-65 in the right lane to around 80 on the left lane towards 85. Pretty consistently, too. Speeds of 95+ are not the norm.
Quote from: Alps on September 24, 2018, 02:45:38 PM
I'm used to traffic flowing at a steady 60-65 in the right lane to around 80 on the left lane towards 85. Pretty consistently, too. Speeds of 95+ are not the norm.
80±10 is above 95 about 1 time in 750, assuming 95% are within the margin of error. Or maybe it's 95 kph (which is a bit on the slow side).
Quote from: 1 on September 24, 2018, 02:58:09 PM
Quote from: Alps on September 24, 2018, 02:45:38 PM
I'm used to traffic flowing at a steady 60-65 in the right lane to around 80 on the left lane towards 85. Pretty consistently, too. Speeds of 95+ are not the norm.
80±10 is above 95 about 1 time in 750, assuming 95% are within the margin of error. Or maybe it's 95 kph (which is a bit on the slow side).
This area of 95 is unlikely to have travelers going 95, but on occasion you'll get the hotrods and bikers that want to open it up and speed as fast as they can. I wouldn't say it's impossible, but during the day it's very unsafe.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 24, 2018, 03:27:41 PM
Quote from: 1 on September 24, 2018, 02:58:09 PM
Quote from: Alps on September 24, 2018, 02:45:38 PM
I'm used to traffic flowing at a steady 60-65 in the right lane to around 80 on the left lane towards 85. Pretty consistently, too. Speeds of 95+ are not the norm.
80±10 is above 95 about 1 time in 750, assuming 95% are within the margin of error. Or maybe it's 95 kph (which is a bit on the slow side).
This area of 95 is unlikely to have travelers going 95, but on occasion you'll get the hotrods and bikers that want to open it up and speed as fast as they can. I wouldn't say it's impossible, but during the day it's very unsafe.
I was going 95 & some people were still passing me. 95 thru delaware may have official broke obeying the speed limit.
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I've seen people hitting the gas more on I-495 in Delaware than I-95. The former is wider with gradual curves.
A few years back, heading north on I-95 between Washington, DC and Baltimore, I'm doing 80+ in the far left lane. I glance over to my right and notice traffic in the other three lanes, even the far right, is outpacing me.
Quote from: ITB on September 24, 2018, 10:48:04 PM
A few years back, heading north on I-95 between Washington, DC and Baltimore, I'm doing 80+ in the far left lane. I glance over to my right and notice traffic in the other three lanes, even the far right, is outpacing me.
The speed limit on the east coast highways should be atleast 75-80mph. Yea some roads might be outdated. But people still drive @80 Mph. Because they are going 1min25s every minute they are going 80mph & higher.
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Quote from: ITB on September 24, 2018, 10:48:04 PM
A few years back, heading north on I-95 between Washington, DC and Baltimore, I'm doing 80+ in the far left lane. I glance over to my right and notice traffic in the other three lanes, even the far right, is outpacing me.
Maryland also doesn't give a crap about enforcing speed limits*. Or maybe that's just been my experience having lived in MD and thus having MD plates since 2009. I've been pulled over a grand total of once, and it was basically: "did you know it's 50 here?" "yes." "okay carry on then."
*Does not apply in Montgomery County, or for speed camera tickets.
Quote from: tckma on September 25, 2018, 09:06:59 AM
Quote from: ITB on September 24, 2018, 10:48:04 PM
A few years back, heading north on I-95 between Washington, DC and Baltimore, I'm doing 80+ in the far left lane. I glance over to my right and notice traffic in the other three lanes, even the far right, is outpacing me.
Maryland also doesn't give a crap about enforcing speed limits*. Or maybe that's just been my experience having lived in MD and thus having MD plates since 2009...
Honestly, I think you're right. I took a trip down to Baltimore Friday/Saturday on I-95. I saw a few cops in the median. One officer, which I could clearly see, was doing paperwork and had no interest in traffic. One previous trip there was a cop in the median in jammed traffic approaching a travel plaza. The cop pulled out a little in front of me and pulled someone over. Clearly it wasn't speed related, so maybe it was a registration issue, headlight out, seat belt, etc. But regardless of the reason, the cop wasn't caring about speed. If he did, he easily could've turned the car around and watched northbound traffic fly by.
I know this group talks about VA a lot, due to their 80 mph reckless driving threshold. I've been in traffic where my cruise is set at 78/79 mph, and traffic still passes me with ease. I've also seen cops down there watching traffic, not really interested in those going in the low 80's. So, no doubt if you're close to 90 it's probably going to be an issue, and it certainly depends how much traffic is out there - if you're the only one at night, 81 in a 70 may be a bit more risky. But clearly they do have discretion at deciding what they're going to allow at any given point in time...and I'm sure that there's a huge number of tickets written for going 79 mph to keep the drivers who were nice to the officers out of trouble.
Quote from: tckma on September 25, 2018, 09:06:59 AM
Quote from: ITB on September 24, 2018, 10:48:04 PM
A few years back, heading north on I-95 between Washington, DC and Baltimore, I'm doing 80+ in the far left lane. I glance over to my right and notice traffic in the other three lanes, even the far right, is outpacing me.
Maryland also doesn't give a crap about enforcing speed limits*. Or maybe that's just been my experience having lived in MD and thus having MD plates since 2009. I've been pulled over a grand total of once, and it was basically: "did you know it's 50 here?" "yes." "okay carry on then."
*Does not apply in Montgomery County, or for speed camera tickets.
Cecil county in Maryland is speed trap central once you pass the toll. Usually 2-3 state cars at all the turn arounds. Elkton is dope central when it comes to drugs. So its not to nice around those parts. Unlike elsewhere.
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Quote from: Tonytone on September 25, 2018, 02:54:15 PM
Quote from: tckma on September 25, 2018, 09:06:59 AM
Quote from: ITB on September 24, 2018, 10:48:04 PM
A few years back, heading north on I-95 between Washington, DC and Baltimore, I'm doing 80+ in the far left lane. I glance over to my right and notice traffic in the other three lanes, even the far right, is outpacing me.
Maryland also doesn't give a crap about enforcing speed limits*. Or maybe that's just been my experience having lived in MD and thus having MD plates since 2009. I've been pulled over a grand total of once, and it was basically: "did you know it's 50 here?" "yes." "okay carry on then."
*Does not apply in Montgomery County, or for speed camera tickets.
Cecil county in Maryland is speed trap central once you pass the toll. Usually 2-3 state cars at all the turn arounds. Elkton is dope central when it comes to drugs. So its not to nice around those parts. Unlike elsewhere.
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I've never seen that many; maybe one here or there, and they certainly don't appear to care about anything under 80.
I remember a time I would see a trooper car at the maintenance yard on the northbound side parked outside of the gate. Often had no one in it, but not always. I can't remember the last time I saw a car there now.
Cecil County still has heightened enforcement, it helps that a state police barracks is right on the highway there. Another popular spot is near the Maryland House rest area in the morning. I've actually gotten pulled over just after crossing the Wilson Bridge on the Capital Beltway (they sit in the median turn around at the base of the bridge), got a warning for "following car too closely".... at 8am on New Year's Day. Yeah, whatever, I was just happy that I wasn't in Virginia. Speaking of, speed enforcement in that state is downright ridiculous. One morning at 6:15am, I counted 8 cars doing radar on I-85 northbound over the course of 10 miles. You can't say thats NOT revenue driven enforcement. Delaware (home of the $39 speeding ticket) used to be pretty bad on I-95 until they finally raised the speed limit.
I've lived in Virginia since 1974 and I've never found speed enforcement here to be anywhere near as draconian on a statewide basis as the stereotype suggests. Sure, there are a few speedtrap areas you have to know about and avoid, but for the most part if you don't drive like a dumbarse or speed in an unreasonable manner (such as weaving in and out across all lanes trying to force everyone else to go faster), usually you won't have a problem. School zones, of course, are an exception.
Now, in both Maryland and Virginia I've often found the far right lane on I-95 can be the fastest one because so many people here seem to be afraid of the right lane. But that doesn't stop some people from tailgating you there–on Saturday coming back from Charlottesville I was in the right lane on I-95 with the adaptive cruise control set at 70 mph in a 65-mph zone and I got tailgated multiple times (to no effect because I neither sped up nor slowed down, seeing as how there were two other lanes those people could use to pass....not my problem those lanes had more traffic).
Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 25, 2018, 03:28:47 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on September 25, 2018, 02:54:15 PM
Quote from: tckma on September 25, 2018, 09:06:59 AM
Quote from: ITB on September 24, 2018, 10:48:04 PM
A few years back, heading north on I-95 between Washington, DC and Baltimore, I'm doing 80+ in the far left lane. I glance over to my right and notice traffic in the other three lanes, even the far right, is outpacing me.
Maryland also doesn't give a crap about enforcing speed limits*. Or maybe that's just been my experience having lived in MD and thus having MD plates since 2009. I've been pulled over a grand total of once, and it was basically: "did you know it's 50 here?" "yes." "okay carry on then."
*Does not apply in Montgomery County, or for speed camera tickets.
Cecil county in Maryland is speed trap central once you pass the toll. Usually 2-3 state cars at all the turn arounds. Elkton is dope central when it comes to drugs. So its not to nice around those parts. Unlike elsewhere.
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I've never seen that many; maybe one here or there, and they certainly don't appear to care about anything under 80.
I remember a time I would see a trooper car at the maintenance yard on the northbound side parked outside of the gate. Often had no one in it, but not always. I can't remember the last time I saw a car there now.
I seen 2 state troopers at the border after the tollbooth in delaware at night & day time. It depends what time it is because I know they are not always there. The area with the most cops would be the Delaware memorial bridge. Funny that this would be a bridge to New jersey so the amount of cops is not unusual.
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Quote from: 1995hoo on September 25, 2018, 07:11:03 PM
I've lived in Virginia since 1974 and I've never found speed enforcement here to be anywhere near as draconian on a statewide basis as the stereotype suggests. Sure, there are a few speedtrap areas you have to know about and avoid, but for the most part if you don't drive like a dumbarse or speed in an unreasonable manner (such as weaving in and out across all lanes trying to force everyone else to go faster), usually you won't have a problem. School zones, of course, are an exception.
Now, in both Maryland and Virginia I've often found the far right lane on I-95 can be the fastest one because so many people here seem to be afraid of the right lane. But that doesn't stop some people from tailgating you there–on Saturday coming back from Charlottesville I was in the right lane on I-95 with the adaptive cruise control set at 70 mph in a 65-mph zone and I got tailgated multiple times (to no effect because I neither sped up nor slowed down, seeing as how there were two other lanes those people could use to pass....not my problem those lanes had more traffic).
I think this is because of the amount of off and on ramps, cops sitting on the shoulder, broken down cars/Trash always in the shoulder/right lane. People have basically learned that the right lane is almost always for merging traffic and obstacles. Its helps traffic flow. As ive said before. They should make a law in which you have to move over when coming up on ramps . If you can have "traffic keep right unless passing" they can have "Traffic keep left for Ramps" .
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Quote from: 1995hoo on September 25, 2018, 07:11:03 PM
I've lived in Virginia since 1974 and I've never found speed enforcement here to be anywhere near as draconian on a statewide basis as the stereotype suggests. Sure, there are a few speedtrap areas you have to know about and avoid, but for the most part if you don't drive like a dumbarse or speed in an unreasonable manner (such as weaving in and out across all lanes trying to force everyone else to go faster), usually you won't have a problem. School zones, of course, are an exception.
The bigger issue with speed limit enforcement in the Commonwealth is
not the Virginia State Police, unless you are driving 80 MPH or better.
It's the small and smallish counties and municipalities that engage in aggressive speed limit enforcement (in some cases it's because the police have little else to do, in other cases, it's is a craven and IMO corrupt way to raise revenue).
In Northern Virginia, that means places like the City of Falls Church, and the Towns of Haymarket and Leesburg. There are other places like that around Virginia too (the Hopewell speed trap on I-295 and the Town of Newsoms in Southampton County are two examples).
Falls Church is a small and wealthy place, and the cops do not have much else going on, but I do not think the city needs the revenue.
Hopewell and Newsoms IMO qualify for being classified as corrupt.
Then there's the matter of VA-286 (Fairfax County Parkway) in Fairfax County (duh). I have seen the Fairfax County Police doing a lot of speed limit enforcement on that road, but I think this is an area and a road where that's justified. Far too many drivers treat it as a freeway (and want to drive 70 or 80 MPH, speeds for which it was never engineered). This is a case where that speed limit enforcement is about safety, and about protecting idiots from themselves.
Quotethe Towns of Haymarket
This must be new or since I left, because I would frequent the Sheetz at 15/55 often, coming into town from Gainesville via 55, and I almost never saw a Haymarket cop.
Quote from: Tonytone on September 25, 2018, 07:20:56 PM
They should make a law in which you have have the common courtesy to move over when coming up on ramps .
FTFY
Quote from: kphoger on September 26, 2018, 12:05:04 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on September 25, 2018, 07:20:56 PM
They should make a law in which you have have the common courtesy to move over when coming up on ramps .
FTFY
Thats like saying people will pick up trash. Ha. People having common courtesy to move over for others. *This forum does not count as the percentage of people that move over or understand how the roads really work.*
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Quote from: Tonytone on September 25, 2018, 07:16:48 PM
I seen 2 state troopers at the border after the tollbooth in delaware at night & day time. It depends what time it is because I know they are not always there. The area with the most cops would be the Delaware memorial bridge. Funny that this would be a bridge to New jersey so the amount of cops is not unusual.
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I see fewer here than I've seen in the past. And based on what I can tell, 69 in the (underposted) 50 zone is OK. I remember once when I was approaching the bridge from NJ towards Delaware I saw a cop pull out as I was going by (at a speed faster than mentioned above), and thought he may go after me. Traffic was pretty heavy. I was passing a truck on his left...then after I passed I pulled in front of him then got in the right lane and slowed down so the truck shielded me from the cop. I would never be able to prove it, but I think I successfully hid from the officer! :-)
Quote from: Tonytone on September 25, 2018, 07:20:56 PM
If you can have "traffic keep right unless passing" they can have "Traffic keep left for Ramps" .
Never. Because then you have the condition of slower traffic in the right lane getting into the left lanes, slowing them down, which is one of the largest causes of traffic congestion near interchanges.
The car in the right lane usually should maintain their speed. The car coming on the highway from the on ramp is often going slower than the traffic on the highway, and would often easily just merge in behind or in between vehicles already on the highway. However, way too often a car on the highway slows down to allow the car on the ramp to enter the highway; the exact opposite way of how it's supposed to work. The car entering the highway is always supposed to be the one to find a gap. This part of Drivers Ed needs to be greatly expanded upon, as in many cases both vehicles in this scenario screw this up.
Also, most interchanges are, on average, about 3 miles apart. There's no reason not to use the right lane between the interchanges. The chances of a vehicle being on the shoulder is extremely low. It drives me nuts to watch someone enter the highway and immediately merge into the center or left lane...often times when the right lane was clear of traffic, and now they're tailgating a vehicle in one of the left lanes.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 26, 2018, 12:13:27 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on September 25, 2018, 07:16:48 PM
I seen 2 state troopers at the border after the tollbooth in delaware at night & day time. It depends what time it is because I know they are not always there. The area with the most cops would be the Delaware memorial bridge. Funny that this would be a bridge to New jersey so the amount of cops is not unusual.
iPhone
I see fewer here than I've seen in the past. And based on what I can tell, 69 in the (underposted) 50 zone is OK. I remember once when I was approaching the bridge from NJ towards Delaware I saw a cop pull out as I was going by (at a speed faster than mentioned above), and thought he may go after me. Traffic was pretty heavy. I was passing a truck on his left...then after I passed I pulled in front of him then got in the right lane and slowed down so the truck shielded me from the cop. I would never be able to prove it, but I think I successfully hid from the officer! :-)
Most likely you were able to hide or he was just pulling out to do the usually roadway checks. They seem to like pulling out of their hiding spots when new traffic goes by.
Quote from: Tonytone on September 25, 2018, 07:20:56 PM
If you can have "traffic keep right unless passing" they can have "Traffic keep left for Ramps" .
Never. Because then you have the condition of slower traffic in the right lane getting into the left lanes, slowing them down, which is one of the largest causes of traffic congestion near interchanges.
The car in the right lane usually should maintain their speed. The car coming on the highway from the on ramp is often going slower than the traffic on the highway, and would often easily just merge in behind or in between vehicles already on the highway. However, way too often a car on the highway slows down to allow the car on the ramp to enter the highway; the exact opposite way of how it's supposed to work. The car entering the highway is always supposed to be the one to find a gap. This part of Drivers Ed needs to be greatly expanded upon, as in many cases both vehicles in this scenario screw this up.
Also, most interchanges are, on average, about 3 miles apart. There's no reason not to use the right lane between the interchanges. The chances of a vehicle being on the shoulder is extremely low. It drives me nuts to watch someone enter the highway and immediately merge into the center or left lane...often times when the right lane was clear of traffic, and now they're tailgating a vehicle in one of the left lanes.
When you explain it. It really seems that that needs signs for people in the right lane that say "Traffic entering off ramps maintain speed do not slow down" . This is why left hand ramps would not work without a lane to follow up.
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Quote from: froggie on September 26, 2018, 12:00:37 PM
Quotethe Towns of Haymarket
This must be new or since I left, because I would frequent the Sheetz at 15/55 often, coming into town from Gainesville via 55, and I almost never saw a Haymarket cop.
I have seen the Haymarket cops
in that Sheetz more than once (maybe they have nice donuts there?), but the place where I have frequently seen them fishing for speeders is on the
other side of town from Sheetz, especially on westbound VA-55 (called Washington Street inside the corporate limits of the town and after the large 25 MPH sign). GSV caught a Haymarket police car at this location waiting for a speeder here (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8100765,-77.6319091,3a,75y,4.04h,67.81t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZixT9X5KGifeBa4M3Pm4-g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) and here (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8100089,-77.6319113,3a,75y,129.94h,84.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sT-iztq7oorUaiXlQ2dbwbg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656).
I wonder if the added presence of police there might have to do with the completion of the grade-separation of the U.S. 29/NS railroad crossing in Gainesville and the several signals that were removed in association with that project? That might make VA-55 more-attractive as a through movement than it was before.
Quote from: Tonytone on September 26, 2018, 12:20:46 PM
It really seems that that needs signs for people in the right lane that say "Traffic entering off ramps maintain speed do not slow down" . This is why left hand ramps would not work without a lane to follow up.
Micromanaging traffic by putting up more and more signs is not a reasonable way to improve driver behavior.
People on the mainline don't move over because they feel no obligation to accommodate merging traffic. In moderate to heavy traffic, this is reasonable, but I also see it when there's no reason the driver couldn't move over. In fact, I saw a FedEx driver on my way to work do this. A pickup was merging in on his right, and there were no cars at all in the left lane, yet the FedEx driver didn't move over. The pickup ended up accelerating on the shoulder in order to get in front of him. Should the pickup driver have decelerated or accelerated earlier on in that process? Yes, certainly. But there was no good reason the FedEx driver couldn't have simply moved over and let
both of them sail smoothly on by.
On the other hand, I see plenty of merging traffic think that, if they get up to the speed limit and put their blinker on, then everyone on the mainline will just get out of their way. And then they either (a) floor it in a cloud of exhaust just to let you know they're not happy it didn't happen or (b) step on the brakes and then try to merge 20 seconds later from a near standstill.
The inability of drivers to make any reasonable accommodation for anyone else on the highway is amazing. Should people on the mainline move over for merging traffic? Yes, as long as that doesn't interfere even more with traffic already on the highway. But that doesn't mean merging traffic is in any way
entitled to it. It's just common courtesy and nothing more.
Quote from: kphoger on September 26, 2018, 12:42:32 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on September 26, 2018, 12:20:46 PM
It really seems that that needs signs for people in the right lane that say "Traffic entering off ramps maintain speed do not slow down" . This is why left hand ramps would not work without a lane to follow up.
Micromanaging traffic by putting up more and more signs is not a reasonable way to improve driver behavior.
The inability of drivers to make any reasonable accommodation for anyone else on the highway is amazing. Should people on the mainline move over for merging traffic? Yes, as long as that doesn't interfere even more with traffic already on the highway. But that doesn't mean merging traffic is in any way entitled to it. It's just common courtesy and nothing more.
[emphasis added above] There is nothing that says a vehicle on the main road has to do anything to accommodate a vehicle entering from a ramp. There is a fancy sign (where they exist*) that does govern those on the ramp -- red and white triangle that sometimes says "Yield" on it. It is the responsibility of the driver on the ramp to look back up the main road to check traffic and adjust his/her speed to enter from the ramp. Sadly the "Me First!" drivers missed this lesson in driver's ed and think that everyone should make room and/or adjust their main road speed so they can get in. Recent experience has seen this played out many times, especially at one particular ramp entering U.S. 460 in Blacksburg. There have been several close calls with people who fly off the ramp without looking, or who have to brake because there isn't an opening for them -- this is accompanied by much yelling and a one-finger salute. Now as a matter of course I move to the left lane here when I can, just to avoid the inevitable collision. See https://goo.gl/maps/WbrcvzMktf32 where the ramp enters at the bridge onto U.S. 460 eastbound.
Bottom line is that yes, it may be common courtesy, but there are other courteous acts that may be more helpful. With adaptive cruise control and active lane assist, making an adjustment in travel just to be nice isn't always going to happen. If I look in the mirror and see open road behind me, I will probably be less likely to move for an entering vehicle that can with a minor speed adjustment have lots of room to merge.
The flip side of this is dealing with drag racers -- those who match your speed when you move over to let them in and make you an inadvertent left-lane blocker.
*Requests have been made to VDOT to install a yield sign on this ramp because of problems here, but the response was something like "there isn't enough room on the right of way here to install a sign."
Quote from: VTGoose on September 26, 2018, 03:16:49 PM
There is nothing that says a vehicle on the main road has to do anything to accommodate a vehicle entering from a ramp. There is a fancy sign (where they exist*) that does govern those on the ramp -- red and white triangle that sometimes says "Yield" on it.
I just want to point out that traffic laws vary state-to-state. I cannot find an example of a state's vehicle code specifically instructing drivers to move over for merging traffic, but that doesn't mean there isn't a state or two out there that does so. And not all states choose to put Yield signs at the end of the merge, either.
Quote from: Tonytone on September 25, 2018, 02:54:15 PM
Cecil county in Maryland is speed trap central once you pass the toll. Usually 2-3 state cars at all the turn arounds. Elkton is dope central when it comes to drugs. So its not to nice around those parts. Unlike elsewhere.
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Okay, well, the $8 toll is ridiculous anyway, so I don't find myself on (northbound) I-95 or US-40 in that part of the state if there is ANY reasonable way to avoid it. $8 for... what, exactly? The option to stop at Maryland House/Chesapeake House? I'll pass.
(Fun fact: The JFK Highway, when it was first opened, only had two service plazas - one in each state - which is where Maryland House gets its name from. But you never see that "Delaware House" signage on the new service plaza there, and frankly, I never saw it in the 80s and 90s either. Chesapeake House came later.)
Quote from: tckma on September 26, 2018, 04:06:17 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on September 25, 2018, 02:54:15 PM
Cecil county in Maryland is speed trap central once you pass the toll. Usually 2-3 state cars at all the turn arounds. Elkton is dope central when it comes to drugs. So its not to nice around those parts. Unlike elsewhere.
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Okay, well, the $8 toll is ridiculous anyway, so I don't find myself on (northbound) I-95 or US-40 in that part of the state if there is ANY reasonable way to avoid it. $8 for... what, exactly? The option to stop at Maryland House/Chesapeake House? I'll pass.
(Fun fact: The JFK Highway, when it was first opened, only had two service plazas - one in each state - which is where Maryland House gets its name from. But you never see that "Delaware House" signage on the new service plaza there, and frankly, I never saw it in the 80s and 90s either. Chesapeake House came later.)
Delaware seems to want more highway traffic to use businesses on local streets. Then to really promote /build service areas because De-1 doesn't have one. (I don't consider that little off ramp in smyrna a service area). & I-95 service area is ok to me. They dont make service areas like they used to or like New Jerseys lol.
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Quote from: tckma on September 26, 2018, 04:06:17 PM
Okay, well, the $8 toll is ridiculous anyway, so I don't find myself on (northbound) I-95 or US-40 in that part of the state if there is ANY reasonable way to avoid it. $8 for... what, exactly? The option to stop at Maryland House/Chesapeake House? I'll pass.
The toll there has always been there, but there was a time prior to about 1983, when there were tolls on all entrance and exit ramps for traffic that did not pass through that barrier.
Then in 1990 or 1991, then-Gov. William Donald Schaefer ordered MDTA to switch to one-way tolling as much as possible (he was dissuaded from doing this at the three toll crossings in Baltimore). So what had been a two-way toll north of the Susquehanna River became a northbound-only toll. That's why it is so high (though you do save a few dollars by paying with Maryland E-ZPass).
My personal preference would be for the JFK Highway part of I-95 to convert to ICC-style cashless tolling, with gantries between every interchange. That would allow the toll at the Susquehanna River to be much lower.
But Maryland is no different than other states. They want to take it easy on tolling in-state drivers. So I doubt tolling that whole section of I-95 would fly. The ICC I think is predominantly in-state drivers. So there you keep the toll down on in-state drivers by only tolling for the part of the highway you use.
Quote from: Tonytone on September 26, 2018, 04:22:01 PM
Delaware seems to want more highway traffic to use businesses on local streets. Then to really promote /build service areas because De-1 doesn't have one.
I don't take this as an official stance of DelDOT against service areas but rather an admission that they're an anachronism which are no longer really necessary.
The practice of having service areas along toll roads goes back in this country to the Pennsylvania Turnpike (which in turn modeled them around the
Rasthöfe of the German Autobahns). And crossing the Alleghenies in 1940, service areas were arguably a necessity. Not only because of the lack of fuel and dining facilities along the rural Turnpike route but also because the cars of the time (many of them '20s and '30s clunkers still being nursed along from the Depression) weren't durable enough to handle sustained high-speed driving. Tire blowouts were common, as were radiator boil-overs and all types of mechanical failures. Each service area had repair bays and a mechanic on duty, and they had their hands full patching up breakdowns and putting them back on the road.
But 75 years later, cars and tires have improved, reducing the need to have mechanics stationed every 30 miles, and gas stations and fast food restaurants have proliferated the countryside to the point that there are very few freeways in the country that haven't naturally sprouted motorist service businesses with at least the frequency of officially sanctioned service areas. The major toll road operators keep service areas in operation–probably because significant money can still be made in leasing the concessions operations. But using the Pennsylvania Turnpike as an example, the PTC has only reduced the number of service areas since the major system was completed in 1956, and on more recent extensions (PA Tpk 43, 60, 66), service areas were never constructed. For that matter, has any new toll road constructed
after the first toll road boom included service areas?
Quote from: BrianP on September 27, 2018, 05:37:37 PM
But Maryland is no different than other states. They want to take it easy on tolling in-state drivers.
I disagree. Many other states in the Northeast have toll roads where the toll road is as much a major commuter and cross-state facility for in-state residents as it is for out-of-staters. New Jersey: The Turnpike is so much a part of daily life in the state to inspire the "What exit?" jokes. New York: Drive between any of the state's top five metro areas, and you'll likely be paying a Thruway toll. Pennsylvania: Ditto. And at least Pennsylvania grants the E-ZPass discount to all E-ZPass users, regardless of what authority issued the transponder. (This should be mandated federally.)
In contrast, Delaware and Maryland have practically predatory approaches to I-95 tolling. A Delaware resident could live a lifetime in-state and commuting to Pennsylvania and never once have to pay his home state's I-95 toll. In Maryland, 90% of the state's population live on the western side of the JFK toll barrier. But at least Delaware gives the E-ZPass rate to all E-ZPass users. Maryland not only reserves the E-ZPass rate for MD tags (on I-95 as well as other toll roads and bridges in the state), it offers various commuter discounts that can bring the toll down to barely
a third of what an out-of-stater–even one with E-ZPass–is forced to pay.
Quote from: briantroutman on September 27, 2018, 07:14:25 PM
But at least Delaware gives the E-ZPass rate to all E-ZPass users.
There is no more E-ZPass discount in Delaware, except a volume discount for Delaware E-ZPass holders who use Route 1 frequently. The $4 toll is the same for cash and E-ZPass on I-95. It used to be different ($2 cash, $1.25 E-ZPass).
Quote from: BrianP on September 27, 2018, 05:37:37 PM
So there you keep the toll down on in-state drivers by only tolling for the part of the highway you use.
In the case of MD-200, it has to be that way as in order to comply with the Record of Decision.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on September 27, 2018, 04:59:08 PMMy personal preference would be for the JFK Highway part of I-95 to convert to ICC-style cashless tolling, with gantries between every interchange.
If both the I-95 & the US 40 crossings were simultaneously converted to AET; a conversion back to two-way tolling
a la Boston (the toll would be split in half) could easily be done since only two bridges are involved in the process.
Quote from: briantroutman on September 27, 2018, 07:14:25 PMIn contrast, Delaware and Maryland have practically predatory approaches to I-95 tolling. A Delaware resident could live a lifetime in-state and commuting to Pennsylvania and never once have to pay his home state's I-95 toll. In Maryland, 90% of the state's population live on the western side of the JFK toll barrier.
The main difference between the Delaware toll & the Maryland toll plazas are that one is located at a river crossing where toll-free bypass options are very limited (US 1 at the Conowingo Dam). In contrast, one can very easily bypass the I-95 Delaware toll plaza by using Exit 1 (DE) and 109 (MD).
Quote from: PHLBOS on September 28, 2018, 09:03:00 AM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on September 27, 2018, 04:59:08 PMMy personal preference would be for the JFK Highway part of I-95 to convert to ICC-style cashless tolling, with gantries between every interchange.
If both the I-95 & the US 40 crossings were simultaneously converted to AET; a conversion back to two-way tolling a la Boston (the toll would be split in half) could easily be done since only two bridges are involved in the process.
Quote from: briantroutman on September 27, 2018, 07:14:25 PMIn contrast, Delaware and Maryland have practically predatory approaches to I-95 tolling. A Delaware resident could live a lifetime in-state and commuting to Pennsylvania and never once have to pay his home state's I-95 toll. In Maryland, 90% of the state's population live on the western side of the JFK toll barrier.
The main difference between the Delaware toll & the Maryland toll plazas are that one is located at a river crossing where toll-free bypass options are very limited (US 1 at the Conowingo Dam). In contrast, one can very easily bypass the I-95 Delaware toll plaza by using Exit 1 (DE) and 109 (MD).
So would delaware & The Tri-State area be the best places to live if you didnt wanna pay a toll. Excluding new jersey & maybe maryland. Cause you could shunpike I-95. & I bet if the maryland toll wasnt there. Both of those 896 exits wouldn't be packed & therefore south mainstreet would have more traffic.
iPhone
Quote from: Tonytone on September 28, 2018, 03:53:09 PMSo would delaware & The Tri-State area be the best places to live if you didnt wanna pay a toll.
For Delaware; one can get to all its neighboring states* without paying a toll.
*A toll is required for the Delaware Memorial Bridge to leave New Jersey/enter Delaware.
Quote from: Tonytone on September 28, 2018, 03:53:09 PMI bet if the maryland Delaware toll wasn't there. Both of those 896 exits wouldn't be packed...
FTFY The revenue from that toll plaza is for the Delaware Turnpike portion of I-95 which runs from the MD State Line to the I-95/295/495 split.
Quote from: Tonytone on September 28, 2018, 03:53:09 PM...& therefore south main street would have more traffic.
:confused:
Quote from: PHLBOS on September 28, 2018, 04:24:46 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on September 28, 2018, 03:53:09 PMSo would delaware & The Tri-State area be the best places to live if you didnt wanna pay a toll.
For Delaware; one can get to all its neighboring states* without paying a toll.
*A toll is required for the Delaware Memorial Bridge to leave New Jersey/enter Delaware.
Quote from: Tonytone on September 28, 2018, 03:53:09 PMI bet if the maryland Delaware toll wasn't there. Both of those 896 exits wouldn't be packed...
FTFY The revenue from that toll plaza is for the Delaware Turnpike portion of I-95 which runs from the MD State Line to the I-95/295/495 split.
Quote from: Tonytone on September 28, 2018, 03:53:09 PM...& therefore south main street would have more traffic.
:confused:
I live in Delaware so I know how the area is. The exit after the tollboth is elkton rd/southmainstreet. So because traffic is getting off @ the two 896 exits. Because of the toll. I believe that if the toll wasnt there more people would get off @ the elkton exit to get into newark. It is also easier & you dont have to deal with traffic from 273 & etc.
iPhone
^ Or in other words, you're saying that people driving from, say, Wilmington to Newark are currently exiting onto DE 896 and clogging the road into town to avoid paying the toll. But if the toll plaza wasn't a factor, they'd continue on to Elkton, exit there, then northeast on Elkton Road to get into Newark.
Is that what you're saying?
Quote from: Tonytone on September 28, 2018, 04:40:22 PMI live in Delaware so I know how the area is.
Then you should know that the tollbooth in question (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6438071,-75.7668652,16.33z) is indeed located in Delaware.
Quote from: Tonytone on September 28, 2018, 04:40:22 PMThe exit after the tollboth is elkton rd/southmainstreet.
Aka MD 279 (Exit 109). It's a reasonable assumption that most know/associate that interchange more by its route number as opposed to its street name(s).
Quote from: Tonytone on September 28, 2018, 04:40:22 PMSo because traffic is getting off @ the two 896 exits. Because of the toll. I believe that if the toll wasnt there more people would get off @ the elkton exit to get into newark. It is also easier & you dont have to deal with traffic from 273 & etc.
That assumption would be dependent upon
where in Newark one is heading. If one coming from Wilmington via I-95 South is heading towards the University of Delaware (as an example); I believe they will use the DE 896 North exit (1B)
regardless of whether a toll plaza
beyond their exit is there or not.
Quote from: briantroutman on September 27, 2018, 07:14:25 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on September 26, 2018, 04:22:01 PM
Delaware seems to want more highway traffic to use businesses on local streets. Then to really promote /build service areas because De-1 doesn't have one.
I don't take this as an official stance of DelDOT against service areas but rather an admission that they're an anachronism which are no longer really necessary.
The practice of having service areas along toll roads goes back in this country to the Pennsylvania Turnpike (which in turn modeled them around the Rasthöfe of the German Autobahns). And crossing the Alleghenies in 1940, service areas were arguably a necessity. Not only because of the lack of fuel and dining facilities along the rural Turnpike route but also because the cars of the time (many of them '20s and '30s clunkers still being nursed along from the Depression) weren't durable enough to handle sustained high-speed driving. Tire blowouts were common, as were radiator boil-overs and all types of mechanical failures. Each service area had repair bays and a mechanic on duty, and they had their hands full patching up breakdowns and putting them back on the road.
I don't know. Yes, it's certainly true that cars and tires and gas mileage have all improved. However, I think the idea behind keeping service plazas on the PA Turnpike, NJ Turnpike, and similar closed-system toll roads is so that drivers don't have to pay a toll and get another toll ticket (yes I'm talking about pre-EZPass) to "eat here and get gas." That and I can't POSSIBLY be the only person who's noticed that gas prices in the service areas along the {Mass Pike / NJ Turnpike / PA Turnpike / pick your favorite closed system toll road / former closed-system toll roads like I-95 in Maryland and Delaware} are usually 5-10c/g more expensive than their off-highway counterparts. I almost ALWAYS use GasBuddy to find the cheapest station (I'm a big Waze evangelist, being a volunteer map editor, and though Waze tried to include this functionality it's still worse than GasBuddy in this area, but I digress). E-ZPass and the ability to research gas prices have obviated the need for the service areas for sure, at least for me. (Even with New Jersey's moronic prohibition on self-serve gas, they're still the cheapest state in the area and I always get gas there when passing through even if I don't need it.)
BUT... Stop into any service area on a closed-system toll road and they're almost always crowded. The only time I've observed this not to be the case is during the overnight hours. Then you have people like my wife who get anxious about leaving the highway and not being able to find suitable eateries and/or gas stations (this even though she loves to look for places to eat on Yelp et. al.!!!). I don't think the service areas are going away any time soon. They may be unnecessary, strictly speaking, in today's world, but the driving public still appears to welcome their presence and to patronize them despite the higher prices they have on gas / food / convenience store fare compared with those things "in the neighborhood" near the toll road but not on it.
Quote from: BrianP on September 27, 2018, 05:37:37 PM
But Maryland is no different than other states. They want to take it easy on tolling in-state drivers.
Is that so? May I present to you the Lexus Lanes along the I-495 Capital Beltway and I-95/I-395 corridor in Virginia, MD-200, the Lexus Lanes on I-95 north of Baltimore... heck, the
Verrazano Narrows Bridge -- A Staten Islander is a resident of New York State and yet to get to a job in any other part of the state, s/he can expect to pay $20 a day in tolls when driving over that bridge. Is that "taking it easy on tolling in-state drivers?"
Quote from: briantroutman on September 27, 2018, 07:14:25 PMAnd at least Pennsylvania grants the E-ZPass discount to all E-ZPass users, regardless of what authority issued the transponder. (This should be mandated federally.)
I wholeheartedly agree. One of the main reasons I avoided switching from a Massachusetts Fast Lane tag to a Maryland E-ZPass tag when I moved from the Boston area to the DC area is (1) Until a few years ago, Maryland charged a monthly E-ZPass fee which was waived if you used MD toll facilities 3x per month, whereas Mass charged no such fee, and (2) I rarely, if ever, use Maryland's toll facilities. I'd probably use them more if I (say) lived in Harford County or lived in Montgomery County and commuted to somewhere like Laurel, but living in Carroll County, it's just rarely necessary. As soon as Governor Hogan ordered the MTA to drop the monthly E-ZPass fee, I dropped my Fast Lane tag in favor of a Maryland E-ZPass. I no longer needed a discount on Mass Pike tolls because I no longer lived in Mass.
With my current commute situation, I'm on the Pennsylvania Turnpike AT LEAST twice a week, and I get the same $8.64 toll from 236 to 326 that a Pennsylvania E-ZPass tagholder would get. I'm thankful for that, as Pennsylvania charges a monthly fee that Maryland does not charge.
I have no idea why all the different toll agencies have different E-ZPass fee structures and toll structures. There's an E-ZPass Inter-Agency Group (IAG) that exists ( http://e-zpassiag.com ) and THAT should be the ONLY agency to issue an E-ZPass... distributing the collected tolls to the various tolling authorities and states as necessary. That way, EVERYONE gets the same fee structure (or lack thereof) and toll discounts EVERYWHERE.
Quote from: briantroutman on September 27, 2018, 07:14:25 PM
In contrast, Delaware and Maryland have practically predatory approaches to I-95 tolling. A Delaware resident could live a lifetime in-state and commuting to Pennsylvania and never once have to pay his home state's I-95 toll. In Maryland, 90% of the state's population live on the western side of the JFK toll barrier. But at least Delaware gives the E-ZPass rate to all E-ZPass users. Maryland not only reserves the E-ZPass rate for MD tags (on I-95 as well as other toll roads and bridges in the state), it offers various commuter discounts that can bring the toll down to barely a third of what an out-of-stater–even one with E-ZPass–is forced to pay.
As I said above, I live in a part of Maryland where I *rarely* need to use a Maryland toll facility. And when I do, I go out of my way to avoid doing so if at all possible (US-1 across the Conowingo Dam is a bad alternative to the I-95 and US-40 bridges, but it DOES come in handy).
Quote from: PHLBOS on September 28, 2018, 05:08:02 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on September 28, 2018, 04:40:22 PMI live in Delaware so I know how the area is.
Then you should know that the tollbooth in question (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6438071,-75.7668652,16.33z) is indeed located in Delaware.
[/quote]
I have not been through that toll booth in any vehicle where I have been behind the wheel in YEARS. I have no idea how that toll booth makes any money. Anyone who has even the most basic ability to read a map can easily figure out the get-off-at-exit-1-get-back-on-at-exit-109 trick.
Quote from: tckma on September 28, 2018, 05:17:14 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on September 28, 2018, 05:08:02 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on September 28, 2018, 04:40:22 PMI live in Delaware so I know how the area is.
Then you should know that the tollbooth in question (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6438071,-75.7668652,16.33z) is indeed located in Delaware.
I have not been through that toll booth in any vehicle where I have been behind the wheel in YEARS. I have no idea how that toll booth makes any money. Anyone who has even the most basic ability to read a map can easily figure out the get-off-at-exit-1-get-back-on-at-exit-109 trick.
for a lot of people, potentially sitting in traffic for 15-20 extra minutes is not worth saving $4.
Quote from: tckma on September 28, 2018, 05:17:14 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on September 28, 2018, 05:08:02 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on September 28, 2018, 04:40:22 PMI live in Delaware so I know how the area is.
Then you should know that the tollbooth in question (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6438071,-75.7668652,16.33z) is indeed located in Delaware.
I have not been through that toll booth in any vehicle where I have been behind the wheel in YEARS. I have no idea how that toll booth makes any money. Anyone who has even the most basic ability to read a map can easily figure out the get-off-at-exit-1-get-back-on-at-exit-109 trick.
Not everybody is as that
road savvy despite the new
tools available on the market now. Plus, with E-ZPass Express lanes present; an E-ZPass user who's pressed for time and sees the right lanes and both DE 896 exit ramps jammed up, they're more likely to use those Express lanes despite the toll. I know because I had to do such one time; and that was the first time I used that stretch for non-company travel in years.
Quote from: PHLBOS on September 28, 2018, 05:25:54 PM
Quote from: tckma on September 28, 2018, 05:17:14 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on September 28, 2018, 05:08:02 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on September 28, 2018, 04:40:22 PMI live in Delaware so I know how the area is.
Then you should know that the tollbooth in question (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6438071,-75.7668652,16.33z) is indeed located in Delaware.
I have not been through that toll booth in any vehicle where I have been behind the wheel in YEARS. I have no idea how that toll booth makes any money. Anyone who has even the most basic ability to read a map can easily figure out the get-off-at-exit-1-get-back-on-at-exit-109 trick.
Not everybody is as that road savvy despite the new tools available on the market now. Plus, with E-ZPass Express lanes present; an E-ZPass user who's pressed for time and sees the right lanes and both DE 896 exit ramps jammed up, they're more likely to use those Express lanes despite the toll. I know because I had to do such one time; and that was the first time I used that stretch for non-company travel in years.
You're not lying. As a Ezpass user Express lanes make using a tollway much better & shit, sometimes you just keep going cause you're already making such good time.
iPhone
Quote from: tckma on September 28, 2018, 05:12:41 PM
With my current commute situation, I'm on the Pennsylvania Turnpike AT LEAST twice a week, and I get the same $8.64 toll from 236 to 326 that a Pennsylvania E-ZPass tagholder would get. I'm thankful for that, as Pennsylvania charges a monthly fee that Maryland does not charge.
Are you implying you'd get charged a monthly E-ZPass charge from the PTC?
To my knowledge (and experience, having a PTC issued E-ZPass since 2006) there is a $3 annual charge - nothing monthly. They did briefly increase it to $6-a-year some years back, but backed it down to $3 again.
QuoteIs that so? May I present to you the Lexus Lanes along the I-495 Capital Beltway and I-95/I-395 corridor in Virginia, MD-200, the Lexus Lanes on I-95 north of Baltimore... heck, the Verrazano Narrows Bridge -- A Staten Islander is a resident of New York State and yet to get to a job in any other part of the state, s/he can expect to pay $20 a day in tolls when driving over that bridge. Is that "taking it easy on tolling in-state drivers?"
I-495 Capital Beltway and I-95/I-395 corridor in Virginia... not in MD (yet but see baltimore below), 0-1
MD 200 - someone has to pay for the highway. I'd say it's better this way since the people who actually use it pay for it. I'd say it's a push.
Baltimore I-95 HOT lanes... you could stay on the untolled lanes. No one is forcing you to use the toll lanes in that case. The susquehanna toll is not avoidable in this way. You have to use a surface highways to avoid that toll. 0-2
Verrazano Narrows Bridge .. not in MD 0-3
Struck out.
Quote from: Tonytone on September 28, 2018, 05:30:07 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on September 28, 2018, 05:25:54 PM
Quote from: tckma on September 28, 2018, 05:17:14 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on September 28, 2018, 05:08:02 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on September 28, 2018, 04:40:22 PMI live in Delaware so I know how the area is.
Then you should know that the tollbooth in question (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6438071,-75.7668652,16.33z) is indeed located in Delaware.
I have not been through that toll booth in any vehicle where I have been behind the wheel in YEARS. I have no idea how that toll booth makes any money. Anyone who has even the most basic ability to read a map can easily figure out the get-off-at-exit-1-get-back-on-at-exit-109 trick.
Not everybody is as that road savvy despite the new tools available on the market now. Plus, with E-ZPass Express lanes present; an E-ZPass user who's pressed for time and sees the right lanes and both DE 896 exit ramps jammed up, they're more likely to use those Express lanes despite the toll. I know because I had to do such one time; and that was the first time I used that stretch for non-company travel in years.
You're not lying. As a Ezpass user Express lanes make using a tollway much better & shit, sometimes you just keep going cause you're already making such good time.
iPhone
This. Back before Express EZ Pass lanes, it was actually faster to detour off 95 than to sit in traffic that was congestion starting around Exit 1. Today, I often can't justify spending 15 minutes to save the cost of the toll.
I also notice many never seem to have the same comparison with 295 and the NJ Turnpike. Especially true when the starting and ending destination is between the Del. Mem. Br. and 195.
J&N do you know if their are any pictures of the small tollbooths on 95 in delaware on the off & on ramps ? & has the Philadelphia part of 95 ever planned to toll the road or was it tolled before?
iPhone
Quote from: Tonytone on September 28, 2018, 07:21:42 PM
J&N do you know if their are any pictures of the small tollbooths on 95 in delaware on the off & on ramps ? & has the Philadelphia part of 95 ever planned to toll the road or was it tolled before?
iPhone
I never saw the tollbooths in Delaware not seen any pics, and I've never heard of any plans for there to be tolls on 95 in PA.
Quote from: Tonytone on September 28, 2018, 07:21:42 PM
has the Philadelphia part of 95 ever planned to toll the road or was it tolled before?
What became I-95 in Pennsylvania was once planned as one of many extensions of the PA Turnpike. All of these, with the exception of the portion of the Northeast Extension already built, were cancelled and (mostly) reworked into the Interstate System. Jeff Kitsko has a list of these extensions on his site (Click here (http://www.pahighways.com/toll/PATurnpike.html#Chapter9) and scroll up a bit).
Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 28, 2018, 07:36:20 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on September 28, 2018, 07:21:42 PM
J&N do you know if their are any pictures of the small tollbooths on 95 in delaware on the off & on ramps ? & has the Philadelphia part of 95 ever planned to toll the road or was it tolled before?
iPhone
I never saw the tollbooths in Delaware not seen any pics, and I've never heard of any plans for there to be tolls on 95 in PA.
There were toll barriers on the ramps of the Delaware Turnpike into the mid- or late-1970's for traffic not crossing the main barrier between the Maryland border and DEL-896. The tolls were very modest, maybe a nickle or dime to as much as a quarter, and I think they had structures with space for toll collectors but the booths were
not staffed when I saw them.
I have seen at least one picture online (might have been from the DelDOT archives).
The state of Delaware has scanned a lot of news content (including at least a few images of the unmanned toll barriers on the ramps) into a set of "Delaware Turnpike Scrapbooks" PDF documents that are available online. See below - broadband connection suggested.
Scrapbook 1 - 1963 to 1965 (https://archives.delaware.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/156/2017/05/scrapbook1.pdf)
Scrapbook 2 - 1965 to 1969 (https://archives.delaware.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/156/2017/05/scrapbook.pdf)
Scrapbook 3 - 1969 to 1988 (https://archives.delaware.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/156/2017/05/scrapbook-1.pdf)
Quote from: cpzilliacus on September 28, 2018, 10:28:41 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 28, 2018, 07:36:20 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on September 28, 2018, 07:21:42 PM
J&N do you know if their are any pictures of the small tollbooths on 95 in delaware on the off & on ramps ? & has the Philadelphia part of 95 ever planned to toll the road or was it tolled before?
iPhone
I never saw the tollbooths in Delaware not seen any pics, and I've never heard of any plans for there to be tolls on 95 in PA.
There were toll barriers on the ramps of the Delaware Turnpike into the mid- or late-1970's for traffic not crossing the main barrier between the Maryland border and DEL-896. The tolls were very modest, maybe a nickle or dime to as much as a quarter, and I think they had structures with space for toll collectors but the booths were not staffed when I saw them.
I have seen at least one picture online (might have been from the DelDOT archives).
The state of Delaware has scanned a lot of news content (including at least a few images of the unmanned toll barriers on the ramps) into a set of "Delaware Turnpike Scrapbooks" PDF documents that are available online. See below - broadband connection suggested.
Scrapbook 1 - 1963 to 1965 (https://archives.delaware.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/156/2017/05/scrapbook1.pdf)
Scrapbook 2 - 1965 to 1969 (https://archives.delaware.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/156/2017/05/scrapbook.pdf)
Scrapbook 3 - 1969 to 1988 (https://archives.delaware.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/156/2017/05/scrapbook-1.pdf)
Wow. I've seen Delaware's archives but not like this. The old tollbooths are what you would expect. But what I noticed is very interesting is.
1. The news article about the boy playing with his friends & then falling off the chopin road overpass & dying on the highway from the fall. Was there no guard rails on overpasses at the time? & which overpass is chopin road in delaware? Was the road renamed.
2. I notice that 495 has a more direct route in the southern part of wilmington rather than on the river like how it is now. How many different routes were planned for I-495?
3. When the pike was built it reduced traffic on 40,301 40 percent. But also the people on 40 say the highway didn't sign route 40 correctly & land by the pike went up 150%??!!!! Holy shit . I also noticed a 1.5 million truck stop was planned, were they talking about the current one in the middle of I-95 in newark or another planned one.
4. Lastly I notice that many people didn't know how to drive on the highway since the amount of accidents that were reported were pretty high. Did this go for most of america or just the east casts curvy highways?
iPhone
Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 28, 2018, 06:48:08 PM
I also notice many never seem to have the same comparison with 295 and the NJ Turnpike. Especially true when the starting and ending destination is between the Del. Mem. Br. and 195.
I *always* take 295. To the point of getting off the Turnpike at Exit 7 (7A after they completed the 295/195 connection) traveling southbound.
Quote from: Mr_Northside on September 28, 2018, 06:24:50 PM
Quote from: tckma on September 28, 2018, 05:12:41 PM
With my current commute situation, I'm on the Pennsylvania Turnpike AT LEAST twice a week, and I get the same $8.64 toll from 236 to 326 that a Pennsylvania E-ZPass tagholder would get. I'm thankful for that, as Pennsylvania charges a monthly fee that Maryland does not charge.
Are you implying you'd get charged a monthly E-ZPass charge from the PTC?
To my knowledge (and experience, having a PTC issued E-ZPass since 2006) there is a $3 annual charge - nothing monthly. They did briefly increase it to $6-a-year some years back, but backed it down to $3 again.
I thought it was monthly -- must have mis-read the site.
Still, $0.00 per year always beats $3.00 per year. Since I still get the E-ZPass discount, I'll stick with my Maryland-issued transponder, thanks.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on September 28, 2018, 10:28:41 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 28, 2018, 07:36:20 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on September 28, 2018, 07:21:42 PM
J&N do you know if their are any pictures of the small tollbooths on 95 in delaware on the off & on ramps ? & has the Philadelphia part of 95 ever planned to toll the road or was it tolled before?
iPhone
I never saw the tollbooths in Delaware not seen any pics, and I've never heard of any plans for there to be tolls on 95 in PA.
There were toll barriers on the ramps of the Delaware Turnpike into the mid- or late-1970's for traffic not crossing the main barrier between the Maryland border and DEL-896. The tolls were very modest, maybe a nickle or dime to as much as a quarter, and I think they had structures with space for toll collectors but the booths were not staffed when I saw them.
I have seen at least one picture online (might have been from the DelDOT archives).
The state of Delaware has scanned a lot of news content (including at least a few images of the unmanned toll barriers on the ramps) into a set of "Delaware Turnpike Scrapbooks" PDF documents that are available online. See below - broadband connection suggested.
Scrapbook 1 - 1963 to 1965 (https://archives.delaware.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/156/2017/05/scrapbook1.pdf)
Scrapbook 2 - 1965 to 1969 (https://archives.delaware.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/156/2017/05/scrapbook.pdf)
Scrapbook 3 - 1969 to 1988 (https://archives.delaware.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/156/2017/05/scrapbook-1.pdf)
I love seeing stuff like this... Kind of scrolling through quickly, since I'm at work... I noticed on two of the maps in Scrapbook 1 (haven't looked at the others yet), I-83 is mislabeled as I-695... was this a typo, or some kind of weird, I-80S and I-70S style 1960s numbering of interstates?
Quote from: tckma on October 01, 2018, 07:37:31 AM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on September 28, 2018, 10:28:41 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 28, 2018, 07:36:20 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on September 28, 2018, 07:21:42 PM
J&N do you know if their are any pictures of the small tollbooths on 95 in delaware on the off & on ramps ? & has the Philadelphia part of 95 ever planned to toll the road or was it tolled before?
iPhone
I never saw the tollbooths in Delaware not seen any pics, and I've never heard of any plans for there to be tolls on 95 in PA.
There were toll barriers on the ramps of the Delaware Turnpike into the mid- or late-1970's for traffic not crossing the main barrier between the Maryland border and DEL-896. The tolls were very modest, maybe a nickle or dime to as much as a quarter, and I think they had structures with space for toll collectors but the booths were not staffed when I saw them.
I have seen at least one picture online (might have been from the DelDOT archives).
The state of Delaware has scanned a lot of news content (including at least a few images of the unmanned toll barriers on the ramps) into a set of "Delaware Turnpike Scrapbooks" PDF documents that are available online. See below - broadband connection suggested.
Scrapbook 1 - 1963 to 1965 (https://archives.delaware.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/156/2017/05/scrapbook1.pdf)
Scrapbook 2 - 1965 to 1969 (https://archives.delaware.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/156/2017/05/scrapbook.pdf)
Scrapbook 3 - 1969 to 1988 (https://archives.delaware.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/156/2017/05/scrapbook-1.pdf)
I love seeing stuff like this... Kind of scrolling through quickly, since I'm at work... I noticed on two of the maps in Scrapbook 1 (haven't looked at the others yet), I-83 is mislabeled as I-695... was this a typo, or some kind of weird, I-80S and I-70S style 1960s numbering of interstates?
Gotta be a typo.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on September 28, 2018, 10:28:41 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 28, 2018, 07:36:20 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on September 28, 2018, 07:21:42 PM
J&N do you know if their are any pictures of the small tollbooths on 95 in delaware on the off & on ramps ? & has the Philadelphia part of 95 ever planned to toll the road or was it tolled before?
I never saw the tollbooths in Delaware not seen any pics, and I've never heard of any plans for there to be tolls on 95 in PA.
There were toll barriers on the ramps of the Delaware Turnpike into the mid- or late-1970's for traffic not crossing the main barrier between the Maryland border and DEL-896. The tolls were very modest, maybe a nickle or dime to as much as a quarter, and I think they had structures with space for toll collectors but the booths were not staffed when I saw them.
I have seen at least one picture online (might have been from the DelDOT archives).
Are my eyes deceiving me? (https://historicaerials.com/location/39.683568202221664/-75.65641522407532/1965/17) At what's now the I-95/DE 1/DE 7 interchange, it looks like there was a toll for those going from DE 7 south to I-95 north but not for DE 7 to I-95 north. Why wouldn't drivers on south DE 7 just make a U-turn where the divided highway ends to save the nickel or dime?
Good eye!
I just thought of something, what if I-95 by the Phl Airport had a toll right there, would this have made Delaware's New castle airport a better pick for people south of the toll.
Quote from: Tonytone on January 15, 2019, 01:11:27 AMI just thought of something, what if I-95 by the Phl Airport had a toll right there, would this have made Delaware's New castle airport a better pick for people south of the toll.
Short answer: no.
Tolls have absolutely nothing to with regards to which airport airlines & passengers choose. While New Castle County Airport (ILG) has had commercial flights in the past; there is absolutely no way that it can handle even
half as many flights as PHL. For starters, it's a much smaller airport than PHL & its airfield & facilities can't handle aircraft larger than 737s & A320s. Not to mention that PHL is a hub airport for American & offers international flights as well.
Past attempts to offer flights out of ILG, be it Shuttle America (when it was still a stand-alone carrier), Delta Connection, SkyBus & even Frontier, all came & went. Some of the carriers ceased operations (SkyBus), others overplayed their hand pricewise (Delta Connection), others were absorbed by other carriers (Shuttle America) and others just simply waited for more available gates to open up at PHL (Frontier).
Quote from: Tonytone on January 15, 2019, 01:11:27 AM
I just thought of something, what if I-95 by the Phl Airport had a toll right there, would this have made Delaware's New castle airport a better pick for people south of the toll.
People have all sorts of reasons for doing what they do. But if someone is spending a few hundred bucks for a flight, plus parking, but are turned away from an airport because of a $5 toll, then they are penny wise pound foolish.
Quote from: PHLBOS on January 15, 2019, 08:31:22 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on January 15, 2019, 01:11:27 AMI just thought of something, what if I-95 by the Phl Airport had a toll right there, would this have made Delaware's New castle airport a better pick for people south of the toll.
Short answer: no.
Tolls have absolutely nothing to with regards to which airport airlines & passengers choose. While New Castle County Airport (ILG) has had commercial flights in the past; there is absolutely no way that it can handle even half as many flights as PHL. For starters, it's a much smaller airport than PHL & its airfield & facilities can't handle aircraft larger than 737s & A320s. Not to mention that PHL is a hub airport for American & offers international flights as well.
Past attempts to offer flights out of ILG, be it Shuttle America (when it was still a stand-alone carrier), Delta Connection, SkyBus & even Frontier, all came & went. Some of the carriers ceased operations (SkyBus), others overplayed their hand pricewise (Delta Connection), others were absorbed by other carriers (Shuttle America) and others just simply waited for more available gates to open up at PHL (Frontier).
That is true, but for more convenience and closeness, I dont understand why people wouldn't use the New Castle Airport, It calm and you would probably get on a flight or off a flight pretty fast. Imagine if Southwest Airlines was there, We would probably see a bustling airport.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 15, 2019, 11:44:17 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on January 15, 2019, 01:11:27 AM
I just thought of something, what if I-95 by the Phl Airport had a toll right there, would this have made Delaware's New castle airport a better pick for people south of the toll.
People have all sorts of reasons for doing what they do. But if someone is spending a few hundred bucks for a flight, plus parking, but are turned away from an airport because of a $5 toll, then they are penny wise pound foolish.
Right! thats true, but you know how people are. People barley wanna pay a toll to get on a highway to go home, so I couldn't imagine people paying a Philly 95 toll, seems like that whole area would lose money because people would take the side streets.
Quote from: Tonytone on January 15, 2019, 02:02:56 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on January 15, 2019, 08:31:22 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on January 15, 2019, 01:11:27 AMI just thought of something, what if I-95 by the Phl Airport had a toll right there, would this have made Delaware's New castle airport a better pick for people south of the toll.
Short answer: no.
Tolls have absolutely nothing to with regards to which airport airlines & passengers choose. While New Castle County Airport (ILG) has had commercial flights in the past; there is absolutely no way that it can handle even half as many flights as PHL. For starters, it's a much smaller airport than PHL & its airfield & facilities can't handle aircraft larger than 737s & A320s. Not to mention that PHL is a hub airport for American & offers international flights as well.
Past attempts to offer flights out of ILG, be it Shuttle America (when it was still a stand-alone carrier), Delta Connection, SkyBus & even Frontier, all came & went. Some of the carriers ceased operations (SkyBus), others overplayed their hand pricewise (Delta Connection), others were absorbed by other carriers (Shuttle America) and others just simply waited for more available gates to open up at PHL (Frontier).
That is true, but for more convenience and closeness, I dont understand why people wouldn't use the New Castle Airport, It calm and you would probably get on a flight or off a flight pretty fast. Imagine if Southwest Airlines was there, We would probably see a bustling airport.
Again & no offense, that's not where the central core of the immediate metropolitan population is. Additionally, several carriers have come & gone ILG because they either couldn't make a profit (airlines are in the business of making money last time I checked) and/or were overmatched/outgunned by frequency of flights at PHL.
With regards to Southwest: they typically don't set up shop at an airport unless they can start with 14 flights/day from the get-go. I don't believe the facilities at ILG or even as another relatively nearby example Mercer-Trenton (TTN) are presently up to that challenge. Given that they're in PHL, although smaller than what their ops were over a decade ago, I don't see them moving over to either ILG or TTN anytime soon.
Frontier was the last major airline to use New Castle. They started up there around the same time they started in Trenton, and shortly thereafter in Philly.
They've done very well in Trenton. They are thriving in Philly. They pulled out of New Castle.
Seems to be there's a reason why airlines can't survive in New Castle, yet they can survive in other smaller and larger airports.
As for the airport itself, maybe they are over-exaggerating themselves. I've mentioned this before: Take a look at their webpage: http://www.newcastleairportilg.com/ . It states they are only a 25 minute drive from Center City, Philadelphia. The shortest distance to City Hall, Philadelphia is 34 miles (US 13, I-495, I-95, PA 611). In order to make that distance, one would have to average 81 mph, and that includes time spent on US 13 and Broad Street in Philly. In reality, the approximate time for that distance is nearly 50 minutes. If you try to stay on the highway as much as possible (US 13, I-495, I-95, I-676), then it's a 38 mile trip, needing to average 91 mph. That trip should normally be about 45 minutes.
So, where the airport website gets 25 minutes...who knows. But it's probably a selling point that travelers who have options have found untrue, and have decided to take their business elsewhere.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 15, 2019, 03:45:02 PM
Frontier was the last major airline to use New Castle. They started up there around the same time they started in Trenton, and shortly thereafter in Philly.
They've done very well in Trenton. They are thriving in Philly. They pulled out of New Castle.
Seems to be there's a reason why airlines can't survive in New Castle, yet they can survive in other smaller and larger airports.
As for the airport itself, maybe they are over-exaggerating themselves. I've mentioned this before: Take a look at their webpage: http://www.newcastleairportilg.com/ . It states they are only a 25 minute drive from Center City, Philadelphia. The shortest distance to City Hall, Philadelphia is 34 miles (US 13, I-495, I-95, PA 611). In order to make that distance, one would have to average 81 mph, and that includes time spent on US 13 and Broad Street in Philly. In reality, the approximate time for that distance is nearly 50 minutes. If you try to stay on the highway as much as possible (US 13, I-495, I-95, I-676), then it's a 38 mile trip, needing to average 91 mph. That trip should normally be about 45 minutes.
So, where the airport website gets 25 minutes...who knows. But it's probably a selling point that travelers who have options have found untrue, and have decided to take their business elsewhere.
What the hell "90 minute connections from New Jersey and New York?!" Thats stretching the truth a little. I can see why they are losing business, maybe if they focus on upgrading the airport to allow multiple airlines, atleast two. They would have more business offers. Their website is far from the truth.
iPhone
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 15, 2019, 03:45:02 PMFrontier was the last major airline to use New Castle. They started up there around the same time they started in Trenton, and shortly thereafter in Philly.
Actually Frontier first came to PHL within a month after Southwest started there with flights to LAX and their hub at DEN. Later, they dropped their PHL-LAX route and once Southwest started PHL-DEN service; Frontier either dropped out of PHL (temporarily) drastically scaled back their PHL ops to 1 flight/day for a while. It was during this period that it absorbed Milwaukee-based Midwest Airlines, became part of Republic Holdings (which also handled regional/commuter service for legacy carriers) and ultimately adopted the Ultra-Low-Cost-carrier (ULCC) model & started offering dirt-cheap fares and charged for every little extra including overhead bin space. I believe it also took over USA 3000's routes out of PHL when that carrier went belly-up
While it was lean/non-existent at PHL; Frontier offered services (except to/from its DEN hub) at neighboring ILG & TTN. They would later return/ramp up PHL again; I believe after they withdrew from ILG.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 15, 2019, 03:45:02 PM
They've done very well in Trenton. They are thriving in Philly. They pulled out of New Castle.
Seems to be there's a reason why airlines can't survive in New Castle, yet they can survive in other smaller and larger airports.
While true for Frontier; TTN has had similar
failures (carriers come & go) as ILG in the past. A recent example of such would be Allegiant pulling out of TTN about a month or two ago; so Frontier now has TTN all to themselves. Side bar (and this way off topic here): Mercer County (the agency the runs TTN) is now planning on building a new terminal.
As far as why ILG has had less success than TTN; it could be due to the fact that its terminal is very small. Such would require a major facilities expansion in order to attract more carriers/commercial service.
ILG Airport (https://www.google.com/maps/place/New+Castle+Airport/@39.6781114,-75.6148494,3218m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x89c703c4b1aabc31:0xf09353a323445a2!8m2!3d39.6802039!4d-75.6034614) I believe the terminal building offset from US 13/40 (DuPont Highway)
vs.
TTN Airport (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Trenton-Mercer+Airport/@40.2776075,-74.8202283,1900m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x89c3fd631ab74c69:0xce4c15147fe6151a!8m2!3d40.277813!4d-74.8137188)
Note to mods: If you want to split the aviation-related posts (which bumped this thread starting with Reply #60) to a separate thread topic in the
Travel section; go right ahead.
Quote from: tckma on October 01, 2018, 07:37:31 AM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on September 28, 2018, 10:28:41 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 28, 2018, 07:36:20 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on September 28, 2018, 07:21:42 PM
J&N do you know if their are any pictures of the small tollbooths on 95 in delaware on the off & on ramps ? & has the Philadelphia part of 95 ever planned to toll the road or was it tolled before?
iPhone
I never saw the tollbooths in Delaware not seen any pics, and I've never heard of any plans for there to be tolls on 95 in PA.
There were toll barriers on the ramps of the Delaware Turnpike into the mid- or late-1970's for traffic not crossing the main barrier between the Maryland border and DEL-896. The tolls were very modest, maybe a nickle or dime to as much as a quarter, and I think they had structures with space for toll collectors but the booths were not staffed when I saw them.
I have seen at least one picture online (might have been from the DelDOT archives).
The state of Delaware has scanned a lot of news content (including at least a few images of the unmanned toll barriers on the ramps) into a set of "Delaware Turnpike Scrapbooks" PDF documents that are available online. See below - broadband connection suggested.
Scrapbook 1 - 1963 to 1965 (https://archives.delaware.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/156/2017/05/scrapbook1.pdf)
Scrapbook 2 - 1965 to 1969 (https://archives.delaware.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/156/2017/05/scrapbook.pdf)
Scrapbook 3 - 1969 to 1988 (https://archives.delaware.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/156/2017/05/scrapbook-1.pdf)
I love seeing stuff like this...
So do I, and not just for highways. Scrapbooks of clippings and newspaper microfilms are great for tracing evolution of newspaper layout. Take scrapbook 1 for instance, showing that during the DE Pike's gestation period, the Wilmingtion News Journal's morning edition (the Morning News) went from upstyle to sentence-style headlines (adopting the latter a few days before JFK's dedication of the road, apparently, a move that, from what I've seen, was ahead of its time in American newspapering in 1963). Meantime the NJ's afternoon edition (the Evening Journal) stuck with upstyle (and a different headline font) for quite a few years afterward, although printed (I assume) on the same presses. There's some clippings from the Phila. Inquirer and Bulletin as well.
ixnay