Inspired by the recent baseball post about how the St. Louis Browns nearly moved to L.A. before the nation entered WWII and that plan was cancelled, I now have a new thread on how the sports world would look if something did or did not happen. Here's how it works:
Pick a league, and then base it off the opposite of an event that may have occurred. For example, if the Rams had never left Cleveland for L.A. in 1946...
1946: Rams stay in Cleveland
1950: Los Angeles Spartans enters league after some successful years in the rival AAFL
1960: Cardinals leave Chicago for St. Louis; Dallas Cowboys are founded as expansion team
1961: Minnesota Vikings are founded as expansion team
1964: Cardinals move to Atlanta
1966: St. Louis Archers are founded as expansion team
1967: New Orleans Saints are founded as expansion team
1970: AFL-NFL merger occurs, with Baltimore and Pittsburgh joining new AFC (Cleveland is offered a spot, but refuses), and the other remaining NFL teams reformed as the NFC
1976: Seattle Seahawks and Tampa Bay Buccaneers are founded as expansion teams
1982: Oakland Raiders move to Los Angeles
1984: Baltimore Colts' proposed move to Indianapolis is blocked, thanks to court injunction, but Archers move to Indianapolis instead, realign with AFC, and rename themselves the Checkers
1995: Carolina Panthers and Phoenix Roadrunners are founded as expansion teams (Jacksonville loses bid to Phoenix); Raiders return to Oakland, but Spartans stay in L.A.
1996: Cleveland Rams move to St. Louis, rename themselves the new Archers (a la the Winnipeg Jets)
1997: Houston Oilers move to Nashville, and don't spend any time in Memphis (they still become the Tennessee Titans in '99, like they did in real life)
1999: New Cleveland Rams team is formed; although it is an expansion team, it retains the records of the old Rams (just like the new Browns retained the records of the original team that moved to Baltimore in '96 and became the Ravens)
2002: Houston Texans are founded as expansion team; Seahawks remain in AFC
2017: San Diego Chargers move to Los Angeles
2020: Oakland Raiders move to Las Vegas
ALTERNATE REALITY NFL
NFC EAST: Dallas Cowboys, New York Giants, Philadelphia Eagles, Washington Redskins
NFC NORTH: Chicago Bears, Cleveland Rams, Detroit Lions, Green Bay Packers
NFC SOUTH: Atlanta Cardinals, Carolina Panthers, New Orleans Saints, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
NFC WEST: Los Angeles Spartans, Minnesota Vikings, San Francisco 49ers, St. Louis Archers
AFC EAST: Buffalo Bills, Miami Dolphins, New England Patriots, New York Jets
AFC NORTH: Baltimore Colts, Cincinnati Bengals, Indianapolis Checkers, Pittsburgh Steelers
AFC SOUTH: Houston Texans, Kansas City Chiefs, Phoenix Roadrunners, Tennessee Titans
AFC WEST: Denver Broncos, Las Vegas Raiders, Los Angeles Chargers, Seattle Seahawks
The seven bolded teams have had their histories rewritten to fit the format of this timeline.
How about the Chargers never leave Los Angeles in the first place and the Raiders have to stay in Oakland?
I did my version, beginning with the Rams not leaving Cleveland in 1946.
1949: Boston Yanks move to LA instead of New York and become the Stars. LA moves from Eastern to Western Conference and Cleveland moves from West to East
1950: Brooklyn instead of Los Angeles becomes the third AAFC team to merge into the NFL along with Baltimore and San Francisco. Baltimore and Brooklyn go into the East, San Franciso into the West, and the other teams are not realigned.
1951: Baltimore folds
1952: Brooklyn moves to Dallas and becomes the Texans
1953: Dallas moves to Baltimore and becomes the Colts
1960: The Cardinals move to Dallas instead of Saint Louis, who gets the expansion team instead, named the Arches, and is placed in the West
1961: Minnesota gets an expansion team and is placed in the East
1966: Atlanta gets an expansion team and is placed in the West
1967: New Orleans gets an expansion team and the conferences are realigned into divisions.
Eastern Conference Capitol Division: New York, Philadelphia, Washington, Pittsburgh
Eastern Conference Century Division: Cleveland, Baltimore, Minnesota, Atlanta
Western Conference Central Division: Chicago, Green Bay, Detroit, Saint Louis
Western Conference Coastal Division: Los Angeles, Dallas, San Francisco, New Orleans
1970: The NFL and AFL merge
NFC East: New York, Philadelphia, Washington, Pittsburgh
NFC Central: Chicago, Cleveland, Green Bay, Detroit, St Louis
NFC West: Los Angeles, Dallas, San Francisco, New Orleans
AFC East: Buffalo, Miami, Boston, New York, Houston
AFC Central: Baltimore, Minnesota, Atlanta, Cincinnati
AFC West: Denver, Kansas City, Oakland, San Diego
1976: Tampa Bay enters the league in the AFC Central and Seattle enters in the NFC West
1984: Baltimore moves to Indianapolis
1988: Saint Louis moves to Arizona, is renamed the Coyotes, and moves to the NFC West. New Orleans moves to the NFC Central
1995: Baltimore gets an expansion team, names the Ravens, instead of Jacksonville, and is placed in the AFC Central. Carolina gets the other expansion team and is placed in the NFC East, Minnesota moves to AFC West
1997: Houston moves to Tennessee
2002: Houston gets an AFC expansion team and Los Angeles gets an NFC expansion team. Divisions are realigned:
NFC East - New York, Philadelphia, Washington, Pittsburgh
NFC North - Chicago, Cleveland, Green Bay, Detroit
NFC South - Saint Louis, Dallas, New Orleans, Carolina
NFC West - San Francisco, Arizona, Seattle, Los Angeles
AFC East - Buffalo, Miami, Boston, New York
AFC North - Indianapolis, Minnesota, Cincinnati, Baltimore
AFC South - Atlanta, Tennessee, Tampa Bay, Houston
AFC West - Denver, Kansas City, Oakland, San Diego
Here's an alternate timeline for the NBA, with the Lakers staying put in Minneapolis instead of moving to Los Angeles in 1960:
1961: Los Angeles gets expansion team, called the Stars
1962: Philadelphia Warriors move to San Francisco
1963: Syracuse Nationals move to Philadelphia, and rename themselves the 76ers
1966: Chicago Bulls form as new expansion team
1967: Baltimore Bullets and Seattle SuperSonics form as new expansion teams
1968: Milwaukee Bucks and Phoenix Suns form as new expansion teams; St. Louis Hawks move to Atlanta. Final division setup is this...
EAST: Baltimore Bullets, Boston Celtics, Cincinnati Royals, Detroit Pistons, Milwaukee Bucks, New York Knicks, Philadelphia 76ers
WEST: Atlanta Hawks, Chicago Bulls, Los Angeles Stars, Minneapolis Lakers, Phoenix Suns, San Francisco Warriors, Seattle SuperSonics
1970: Cleveland Cavaliers, Houston Rockets and Portland Trail Blazers form as new expansion teams; San Francisco Warriors are renamed to Golden State Warriors. East and West Divisions are now known as Eastern and Western Conferences, with these new divisions...
ATLANTIC: Baltimore Bullets, Boston Celtics, New York Knicks, Philadelphia 76ers
CENTRAL: Atlanta Hawks, Cincinnati Royals, Cleveland Cavaliers, Detroit Pistons
MIDWEST: Chicago Bulls, Houston Rockets, Milwaukee Bucks, Minneapolis Lakers
PACIFIC: Golden State Warriors, Los Angeles Stars, Phoenix Suns, Portland Trail Blazers, Seattle SuperSonics
1973: Cincinnati Royals move to Kansas City, but rename themselves to Kings to avoid confusion with MLB team in KC. They switch conferences (and divisions) with Chicago.
1974: New Orleans Jazz forms as new expansion team, and is placed in Midwest Division; Milwaukee switches conferences; Baltimore Bullets move to Washington
1976: NBA and ABA merge, with same four teams being absorbed (Denver Nuggets, Indiana Pacers, New York Nets, San Antonio Spurs). Divisions now look like this...
ATLANTIC: Boston Celtics, New York Knicks, New York Nets, Philadelphia 76ers, Washington Bullets
CENTRAL: Atlanta Hawks, Chicago Bulls, Cleveland Cavaliers, Detroit Pistons, Indiana Pacers, Milwaukee Bucks
MIDWEST: Denver Nuggets, Houston Rockets, Kansas City Kings, Minneapolis Lakers, New Orleans Jazz, San Antonio Spurs
PACIFIC: Golden State Warriors, Los Angeles Stars, Phoenix Suns, Portland Trail Blazers, Seattle SuperSonics
1977: New York Nets move to New Jersey
1980: Dallas Mavericks form as new expansion team, and are placed in Midwest Division
1988: Charlotte Hornets and Miami Heat form as new expansion teams
1989: Orlando Magic and Utah Pioneers form as new expansion teams (because Minnesota still has a team, and Jazz are still in New Orleans)
1995: Toronto Raptors and Vancouver Grizzlies form as new expansion teams. Divisions are now set up as this...
ATLANTIC: Boston Celtics, Miami Heat, New Jersey Nets, New York Knicks, Orlando Magic, Philadelphia 76ers, Washington Bullets
CENTRAL: Atlanta Hawks, Charlotte Hornets, Chicago Bulls, Cleveland Cavaliers, Detroit Pistons, Indiana Pacers, Milwaukee Bucks, Toronto Raptors
MIDWEST: Dallas Mavericks, Denver Nuggets, Houston Rockets, Kansas City Kings, Minneapolis Lakers, New Orleans Jazz, San Antonio Spurs
PACIFIC: Golden State Warriors, Los Angeles Stars, Phoenix Suns, Portland Trail Blazers, Seattle SuperSonics, Utah Pioneers, Vancouver Grizzlies
1997: Washington Bullets rename themselves to Wizards
2001: Vancouver Grizzlies move to Memphis, and switch divisions with Denver (as they'd be the closest Midwest Division team to the West Coast)
2004: Oklahoma City Thunder form as new expansion team; divisions realign to current setup.
With the Hornets, Kings, Nets and SuperSonics staying put, these are the divisions that you'd see today:
ALTERNATE REALITY NBA
ATLANTIC: Boston Celtics, New Jersey Nets, New York Knicks, Philadelphia 76ers, Toronto Raptors
CENTRAL: Chicago Bulls, Cleveland Cavaliers, Detroit Pistons, Indiana Pacers, Milwaukee Bucks
SOUTHEAST: Atlanta Hawks, Charlotte Hornets, Miami Heat, Orlando Magic, Washington Wizards
NORTHWEST: Denver Nuggets, Kansas City Kings, Minneapolis Lakers, Oklahoma City Thunder, Utah Pioneers
SOUTHWEST: Dallas Mavericks, Houston Rockets, Memphis Grizzlies, New Orleans Jazz, San Antonio Spurs
PACIFIC: Golden State Warriors, Los Angeles Stars, Phoenix Suns, Portland Trail Blazers, Seattle SuperSonics
^^^^
Are you assuming Chicago never had the original Chicago Packers, who became the Zephyrs and subsequently moved to Baltimore and became the Bullets?
You could even suggest that the Hawks never leave Milwaukee. (Where the Tri-City Blackhawks moved from - now the Quad Cities.)
Anyway the Hawks were terrible in Milwaukee. Had Bob Pettit been around a little earlier, they may have drawn the crowds to stick around.
So, in your alternate universe, the Buffalo Braves-San Diego Clippers-Los Angeles Clippers do not exist? No Bob McAdoo? No Randy Smith? No Ernie DiGregorio? Damn!
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 20, 2020, 11:36:59 AM
^^^^
Are you assuming Chicago never had the original Chicago Packers, who became the Zephyrs and subsequently moved to Baltimore and became the Bullets?
Quote from: amroad17 on May 21, 2020, 07:21:10 AM
So, in your alternate universe, the Buffalo Braves-San Diego Clippers-Los Angeles Clippers do not exist? No Bob McAdoo? No Randy Smith? No Ernie DiGregorio? Damn!
Unfortunately, the answer is yes to both answers. The first answer is because the Lakers never left in the first place, and Los Angeles was awarded the expansion team instead of Chicago. As for the second answer, it was mainly because I felt the need to give Houston a team, so the Rockets' years in San Diego never happened in this timeline either. I actually feel bad about giving the fine citizens of San Diego the shaft, but considering the bad luck they've had in keeping sports franchises (they lost the Rockets, Clippers and Chargers, and almost lost the Padres as well), I thought it would be best to spare them the heartache by not having a team there at all.
Now on to the NHL, with a more appropriate division setup for when the league expanded from six teams to twelve in 1967, and two of those new teams not merging...
1967: NHL adds six new teams to the Original Six. Instead of grouping the Original Six into one division and the six expansion teams into another, the six divisions would be mixed, resulting in this setup...
EAST:
Boston Bruins, Montreal Canadiens, New York Rangers, Toronto Maple Leafs, Philadelphia Flyers, Pittsburgh PenguinsWEST:
Chicago Blackhawks, Detroit Red Wings, California Golden Seals, Los Angeles Kings, Minnesota North Stars, St. Louis Blues1971: Buffalo Sabres and Vancouver Canucks are founded as expansion teams
1972: Atlanta Flames and New York Islanders are founded as expansion teams
1974: Kansas City Scouts and Washington Capitals are founded as expansion teams
1976: Golden Seals remain in Oakland instead of moving to Cleveland (where they'd become the Barons in the real world)
1977: Scouts move to Denver, and rename themselves to Colorado Rockies
1978: A deal is made to save the Golden Seals
1979: Four teams (Edmonton Oilers, Hartford Whalers, Quebec Nordiques, Winnipeg Jets) from the WHA merge into the NHL
1980: Flames move to Calgary
1982: Rockies move to New Jersey, and rename themselves the Devils
1991: Phoenix Coyotes are founded as expansion team; Golden Seals move to San Jose, and rename themselves to Sharks
1992: Ottawa Senators and Tampa Bay Lightning are founded as expansion teams
1993: Florida Panthers and the Mighty Ducks of Anaheim are founded as expansion teams; North Stars remain in Minnesota. Divisions are as follows...
ATLANTIC: Boston Bruins, Florida Panthers, New Jersey Devils, New York Islanders, New York Rangers, Tampa Bay Lightning, Washington Capitals
NORTHEAST: Buffalo Sabres, Hartford Whalers, Montreal Canadiens, Ottawa Senators, Philadelphia Flyers, Pittsburgh Penguins, Quebec Nordiques
CENTRAL: Chicago Blackhawks, Detroit Red Wings, Minnesota North Stars, Phoenix Coyotes, St. Louis Blues, Toronto Maple Leafs, Winnipeg Jets
PACIFIC: Calgary Flames, Edmonton Oilers, Los Angeles Kings, Mighty Ducks of Anaheim, San Jose Sharks, Vancouver Canucks
1995: Nordiques move to Denver, and rename themselves to Colorado Avalanche
1996: Jets remain in Winnipeg instead of moving to Phoenix
1997: Whalers move to Raleigh, NC, and rename themselves to Carolina Hurricanes
1999: Nashville Predators and Seattle Metropolitans are founded as expansion teams
2000: Columbus Blue Jackets and Dallas Mustangs are founded as expansion teams. Six-division setup is adopted, with the following teams...
ATLANTIC: Boston Bruins, Montreal Canadiens, New Jersey Devils, New York Islanders, New York Rangers
NORTHEAST: Buffalo Sabres, Columbus Blue Jackets, Ottawa Senators, Philadelphia Flyers, Pittsburgh Penguins
SOUTHEAST: Carolina Hurricanes, Florida Panthers, Nashville Predators, Tampa Bay Lightning, Washington Capitals
CENTRAL: Chicago Blackhawks, Detroit Red Wings, Minnesota North Stars, St. Louis Blues, Toronto Maple Leafs
MOUNTAIN: Calgary Flames, Colorado Avalanche, Dallas Mustangs, Edmonton Oilers, Phoenix Coyotes, Winnipeg Jets
PACIFIC: Los Angeles Kings, Mighty Ducks of Anaheim, San Jose Sharks, Seattle Metropolitans, Vancouver Canucks
2006: Mighty Ducks are renamed to Anaheim Ducks
2013: Phoenix Coyotes are renamed to Arizona Coyotes
2017: Vegas Golden Knights are founded as expansion team, with final division setup as follows...
ATLANTIC: Boston Bruins, Buffalo Sabres, Montreal Canadiens, New Jersey Devils, New York Islanders, New York Rangers, Ottawa Senators, Toronto Maple Leafs
METROPOLITAN: Carolina Hurricanes, Columbus Blue Jackets, Detroit Red Wings, Florida Panthers, Philadelphia Flyers, Pittsburgh Penguins, Tampa Bay Lightning, Washington Capitals
CENTRAL: Arizona Coyotes, Chicago Blackhawks, Colorado Avalanche, Dallas Mustangs, Minnesota North Stars, Nashville Predators, St. Louis Blues, Winnipeg Jets
PACIFIC: Anaheim Ducks, Calgary Flames, Edmonton Oilers, Los Angeles Kings, San Jose Sharks, Seattle Metropolitans, Vancouver Canucks, Vegas Golden Knights
Quote from: Henry on May 21, 2020, 11:47:52 AM
Now on to the NHL, with a more appropriate division setup for when the league expanded from six teams to twelve in 1967, and two of those new teams not merging...
1967: NHL adds six new teams to the Original Six. Instead of grouping the Original Six into one division and the six expansion teams into another, the six divisions would be mixed, resulting in this setup...
EAST: Boston Bruins, Montreal Canadiens, New York Rangers, Toronto Maple Leafs, Philadelphia Flyers, Pittsburgh Penguins
WEST: Chicago Blackhawks, Detroit Red Wings, California Golden Seals, Los Angeles Kings, Minnesota North Stars, St. Louis Blues
Had the NHL used that setup instead of the one we knew, chances then the Blues wouldn't made the finals 3 times in their beginning and maybe, just maybe the Red Wings wouldn't be known as the "Dead Wings" in the 1970s had the moved to the west division which what they did with Chicago for the 1970-71 season.
What if the Patriots moved to St. Louis in 1994 and became the Stallions? How would that affect the league today?
A seminal move was Lamar Hunt creating the AFL. Had the NFL let him have a franchise, there would be no AFL. That would have changed a lot of things in such a timeline.
Rick
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 22, 2020, 05:55:04 PM
What if the Patriots moved to St. Louis in 1994 and became the Stallions? How would that affect the league today?
If that happend, I wonder if Boston / New England would have ever received an expansion team. The Patriots weren't that well supported and had a terrible stadium. And I'm not sure the various local and state governments would have been motivated enough to build one. Would the NFL ever gone back?
Unlike Cleveland, which always had the rapid fanbase, and Houston, which is a football hotbed, once they figured out their stadium issues everything was good.
Maybe the market is just too big and eventually someone steps forward like LA. Maybe the Bills relocate.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 23, 2020, 08:02:36 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 22, 2020, 05:55:04 PM
What if the Patriots moved to St. Louis in 1994 and became the Stallions? How would that affect the league today?
If that happend, I wonder if Boston / New England would have ever received an expansion team. The Patriots weren't that well supported and had a terrible stadium. And I'm not sure the various local and state governments would have been motivated enough to build one. Would the NFL ever gone back?
Unlike Cleveland, which always had the rapid fanbase, and Houston, which is a football hotbed, once they figured out their stadium issues everything was good.
Maybe the market is just too big and eventually someone steps forward like LA. Maybe the Bills relocate.
That's a huge market. Someone eventually relocates there by the 2010s I think.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 23, 2020, 11:11:11 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 23, 2020, 08:02:36 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 22, 2020, 05:55:04 PM
What if the Patriots moved to St. Louis in 1994 and became the Stallions? How would that affect the league today?
If that happend, I wonder if Boston / New England would have ever received an expansion team. The Patriots weren't that well supported and had a terrible stadium. And I'm not sure the various local and state governments would have been motivated enough to build one. Would the NFL ever gone back?
Unlike Cleveland, which always had the rapid fanbase, and Houston, which is a football hotbed, once they figured out their stadium issues everything was good.
Maybe the market is just too big and eventually someone steps forward like LA. Maybe the Bills relocate.
That's a huge market. Someone eventually relocates there by the 2010s I think.
LA went a long time. Only thing that made it official was a new stadium.
No team would have moved to Foxboro without another stadium on the horizon.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 23, 2020, 09:20:39 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 23, 2020, 11:11:11 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 23, 2020, 08:02:36 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 22, 2020, 05:55:04 PM
What if the Patriots moved to St. Louis in 1994 and became the Stallions? How would that affect the league today?
If that happend, I wonder if Boston / New England would have ever received an expansion team. The Patriots weren't that well supported and had a terrible stadium. And I'm not sure the various local and state governments would have been motivated enough to build one. Would the NFL ever gone back?
Unlike Cleveland, which always had the rapid fanbase, and Houston, which is a football hotbed, once they figured out their stadium issues everything was good.
Maybe the market is just too big and eventually someone steps forward like LA. Maybe the Bills relocate.
That's a huge market. Someone eventually relocates there by the 2010s I think.
LA went a long time. Only thing that made it official was a new stadium.
No team would have moved to Foxboro without another stadium on the horizon.
Maybe the Chargers move to Boston instead of LA if they can get a stadium.
I don't think Western NY could handle the Bills leaving town.
What if the Oilers had never left Houston? Would Tennessee get an expansion team, or would somewhere like San Antonio or Birmingham get it?
Quote from: CoreySamson on May 24, 2020, 11:48:51 AM
What if the Oilers had never left Houston? Would Tennessee get an expansion team, or would somewhere like San Antonio or Birmingham get it?
Hard to picture San Antonio getting a team because the other two Texas teams don't want to share the market–Jerry Jones, in particular, is known to be fairly hostile to the idea of a permanent team in San Antonio ("permanent" as opposed to the Saints' temporary residency there after Hurricane Katrina). That's one reason why the talk a few years ago of the Raiders moving there was always seen as such a long shot.
Had the Oilers not moved to Nashville, I've always wondered which city would have stood a better chance of landing a team–Nashville or Memphis.
What if the USFL merged with the NFL after its first season in 1983? i can see the NFL as part of the merger taking the 4 playoff teams that year (Philadelphia Stars, Michigan Panthers, Chicago Blitz, and Oakland Invaders) as well as the 4 top teams in attendance of non playoff teams (Tampa Bay Bandits, New Jersey Generals, Denver Gold, and Boston Breakers). what happens to the NFL as we know it after that?
Quote from: cwf1701 on May 24, 2020, 04:48:11 PM
What if the USFL merged with the NFL after its first season in 1983? i can see the NFL as part of the merger taking the 4 playoff teams that year (Philadelphia Stars, Michigan Panthers, Chicago Blitz, and Oakland Invaders) as well as the 4 top teams in attendance of non playoff teams (Tampa Bay Bandits, New Jersey Generals, Denver Gold, and Boston Breakers). what happens to the NFL as we know it after that?
The NFL is not going to take teams in NFL cities. Or if they do, they will have to relocate.
Quote from: cwf1701 on May 24, 2020, 04:48:11 PM
What if the USFL merged with the NFL after its first season in 1983? i can see the NFL as part of the merger taking the 4 playoff teams that year (Philadelphia Stars, Michigan Panthers, Chicago Blitz, and Oakland Invaders) as well as the 4 top teams in attendance of non playoff teams (Tampa Bay Bandits, New Jersey Generals, Denver Gold, and Boston Breakers). what happens to the NFL as we know it after that?
Since the NFL had the upper hand, they could have moved all USFL franchises located in NFL markets into new cities. The owners of the USFL teams would have been grateful just to have a place in the league.
After that would have come a shakeout. It would have been interesting to see which cities were able to keep their franchise, including the ones from the NFL.
Rick
Quote from: nexus73 on May 24, 2020, 05:49:56 PM
Quote from: cwf1701 on May 24, 2020, 04:48:11 PM
What if the USFL merged with the NFL after its first season in 1983? i can see the NFL as part of the merger taking the 4 playoff teams that year (Philadelphia Stars, Michigan Panthers, Chicago Blitz, and Oakland Invaders) as well as the 4 top teams in attendance of non playoff teams (Tampa Bay Bandits, New Jersey Generals, Denver Gold, and Boston Breakers). what happens to the NFL as we know it after that?
Since the NFL had the upper hand, they could have moved all USFL franchises located in NFL markets into new cities. The owners of the USFL teams would have been grateful just to have a place in the league.
I know we are dealing with hypotheticals here, but if the NFL wanted to place teams into markets where a USFL team would be relocated, it would have been easier simply to put an expansion franchise there. That way they get to choose the owner.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 25, 2020, 08:59:53 AM
Quote from: nexus73 on May 24, 2020, 05:49:56 PM
Quote from: cwf1701 on May 24, 2020, 04:48:11 PM
What if the USFL merged with the NFL after its first season in 1983? i can see the NFL as part of the merger taking the 4 playoff teams that year (Philadelphia Stars, Michigan Panthers, Chicago Blitz, and Oakland Invaders) as well as the 4 top teams in attendance of non playoff teams (Tampa Bay Bandits, New Jersey Generals, Denver Gold, and Boston Breakers). what happens to the NFL as we know it after that?
Since the NFL had the upper hand, they could have moved all USFL franchises located in NFL markets into new cities. The owners of the USFL teams would have been grateful just to have a place in the league.
I know we are dealing with hypotheticals here, but if the NFL wanted to place teams into markets where a USFL team would be relocated, it would have been easier simply to put an expansion franchise there. That way they get to choose the owner.
The NFL also likes to choose and chase the money. New owners have to give up some of the moolah which comes to those already in the club from TV revenue. "Admission fees" so to speak.
Rick
Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 25, 2020, 08:59:53 AM
Quote from: nexus73 on May 24, 2020, 05:49:56 PM
Quote from: cwf1701 on May 24, 2020, 04:48:11 PM
What if the USFL merged with the NFL after its first season in 1983? i can see the NFL as part of the merger taking the 4 playoff teams that year (Philadelphia Stars, Michigan Panthers, Chicago Blitz, and Oakland Invaders) as well as the 4 top teams in attendance of non playoff teams (Tampa Bay Bandits, New Jersey Generals, Denver Gold, and Boston Breakers). what happens to the NFL as we know it after that?
Since the NFL had the upper hand, they could have moved all USFL franchises located in NFL markets into new cities. The owners of the USFL teams would have been grateful just to have a place in the league.
I know we are dealing with hypotheticals here, but if the NFL wanted to place teams into markets where a USFL team would be relocated, it would have been easier simply to put an expansion franchise there. That way they get to choose the owner.
The USFL had one particular owner Pete Rozelle had told, in no uncertain terms, "you will never, under any circumstances, own an NFL team."
I wonder whatever happened to that guy.
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 25, 2020, 10:45:10 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 25, 2020, 08:59:53 AM
Quote from: nexus73 on May 24, 2020, 05:49:56 PM
Quote from: cwf1701 on May 24, 2020, 04:48:11 PM
What if the USFL merged with the NFL after its first season in 1983? i can see the NFL as part of the merger taking the 4 playoff teams that year (Philadelphia Stars, Michigan Panthers, Chicago Blitz, and Oakland Invaders) as well as the 4 top teams in attendance of non playoff teams (Tampa Bay Bandits, New Jersey Generals, Denver Gold, and Boston Breakers). what happens to the NFL as we know it after that?
Since the NFL had the upper hand, they could have moved all USFL franchises located in NFL markets into new cities. The owners of the USFL teams would have been grateful just to have a place in the league.
I know we are dealing with hypotheticals here, but if the NFL wanted to place teams into markets where a USFL team would be relocated, it would have been easier simply to put an expansion franchise there. That way they get to choose the owner.
The USFL had one particular owner Pete Rozelle had told, in no uncertain terms, "you will never, under any circumstances, own an NFL team."
I wonder whatever happened to that guy.
So maybe the alternate universe is Trump gets an NFL team, never goes into politics, and John Kasich is President right now.
Quote from: cabiness42 on May 25, 2020, 11:09:22 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 25, 2020, 10:45:10 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 25, 2020, 08:59:53 AM
Quote from: nexus73 on May 24, 2020, 05:49:56 PM
Quote from: cwf1701 on May 24, 2020, 04:48:11 PM
What if the USFL merged with the NFL after its first season in 1983? i can see the NFL as part of the merger taking the 4 playoff teams that year (Philadelphia Stars, Michigan Panthers, Chicago Blitz, and Oakland Invaders) as well as the 4 top teams in attendance of non playoff teams (Tampa Bay Bandits, New Jersey Generals, Denver Gold, and Boston Breakers). what happens to the NFL as we know it after that?
Since the NFL had the upper hand, they could have moved all USFL franchises located in NFL markets into new cities. The owners of the USFL teams would have been grateful just to have a place in the league.
I know we are dealing with hypotheticals here, but if the NFL wanted to place teams into markets where a USFL team would be relocated, it would have been easier simply to put an expansion franchise there. That way they get to choose the owner.
The USFL had one particular owner Pete Rozelle had told, in no uncertain terms, "you will never, under any circumstances, own an NFL team."
I wonder whatever happened to that guy.
So maybe the alternate universe is Trump gets an NFL team, never goes into politics, and John Kasich is President right now.
Thought Ted Cruz was the runner up?
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 25, 2020, 11:12:16 AM
Quote from: cabiness42 on May 25, 2020, 11:09:22 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 25, 2020, 10:45:10 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 25, 2020, 08:59:53 AM
Quote from: nexus73 on May 24, 2020, 05:49:56 PM
Quote from: cwf1701 on May 24, 2020, 04:48:11 PM
What if the USFL merged with the NFL after its first season in 1983? i can see the NFL as part of the merger taking the 4 playoff teams that year (Philadelphia Stars, Michigan Panthers, Chicago Blitz, and Oakland Invaders) as well as the 4 top teams in attendance of non playoff teams (Tampa Bay Bandits, New Jersey Generals, Denver Gold, and Boston Breakers). what happens to the NFL as we know it after that?
Since the NFL had the upper hand, they could have moved all USFL franchises located in NFL markets into new cities. The owners of the USFL teams would have been grateful just to have a place in the league.
I know we are dealing with hypotheticals here, but if the NFL wanted to place teams into markets where a USFL team would be relocated, it would have been easier simply to put an expansion franchise there. That way they get to choose the owner.
The USFL had one particular owner Pete Rozelle had told, in no uncertain terms, "you will never, under any circumstances, own an NFL team."
I wonder whatever happened to that guy.
So maybe the alternate universe is Trump gets an NFL team, never goes into politics, and John Kasich is President right now.
Thought Ted Cruz was the runner up?
He was, but I remember reading something about Kasich being the second choice of the majority of those who voted for Trump in the primary so that's why I went with that. No way to know for sure.
What if the Colts beat the Jets in Super Bowl III? Had that happened, The NFL would not move Baltimore to the AFC in 1970 and instead send three teams that finished last in 1968. In 1970 the NFL would have looked like this:
NFC East: Giants, Eagles, Redskins, Colts
NFC Central: Bears, Packers, Vikings, Browns
NFC West: Rams Cardinals, Cowboys, 49ers, Saints
AFC East: Jets, Bills, Falcons, Patriots
AFC Central: Steelers, Bengals, Lions, Dolphins
AFC West: Chiefs, Oilers, Broncos, Chargers, Raiders
The 1976 NFL season would look like this:
NFC East: Giants, Eagles, Redskins, Colts
NFC Central: Bears, Packers, Vikings, Browns, Seahawks
NFC West: Rams Cardinals, Cowboys, 49ers, Saints
AFC East: Jets, Bills, Falcons, Patriots
AFC Central: Steelers, Bengals, Lions, Dolphins, Chiefs
AFC West: Buccaneers, Oilers, Broncos, Chargers, Raiders
in 1977 this is the NFL lineup:
NFC East: Giants, Eagles, Redskins, Colts
NFC Central: Bears, Packers, Vikings, Browns, Buccaneers
NFC West: Rams Cardinals, Cowboys, 49ers, Saints
AFC East: Jets, Bills, Falcons, Patriots
AFC Central: Steelers, Bengals, Lions, Dolphins, Chiefs
AFC West: Seahawks, Oilers, Broncos, Chargers, Raiders
by Moving the Lions and Falcons to the AFC instead of the Colts and Browns, how does history differ after 1970?
I know you are dealing in hypotheticals here, but the NFL paid the Colts, Steelers and Browns to move. And the only reason the Steelers agreed was if the Browns went with them and would be in the same division.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 26, 2020, 01:49:38 PM
I know you are dealing in hypotheticals here, but the NFL paid the Colts, Steelers and Browns to move. And the only reason the Steelers agreed was if the Browns went with them and would be in the same division.
Plus the Lions would never have given up twice a year games against the Bears and Packers.
Quote from: cabiness42 on May 26, 2020, 01:59:37 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 26, 2020, 01:49:38 PM
I know you are dealing in hypotheticals here, but the NFL paid the Colts, Steelers and Browns to move. And the only reason the Steelers agreed was if the Browns went with them and would be in the same division.
Plus the Lions would never have given up twice a year games against the Bears and Packers.
Tell that to the Red Wings in 2010, before they got moved from the Western conference to the Eastern Conference. The Wings had a rivalry with the Avalanche and played them up to 10 times a years (including playoffs). I can see likely the Lions having a choice, keep the Bears and Packers, but lose the Thanksgiving day game, or moving to the AFC, and playing on Thanksgiving. I think the Lions will choose playing on Thanksgiving Day.
Quote from: cwf1701 on May 27, 2020, 03:44:39 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on May 26, 2020, 01:59:37 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 26, 2020, 01:49:38 PM
I know you are dealing in hypotheticals here, but the NFL paid the Colts, Steelers and Browns to move. And the only reason the Steelers agreed was if the Browns went with them and would be in the same division.
Plus the Lions would never have given up twice a year games against the Bears and Packers.
Tell that to the Red Wings in 2010, before they got moved from the Western conference to the Eastern Conference. The Wings had a rivalry with the Avalanche and played them up to 10 times a years (including playoffs). I can see likely the Lions having a choice, keep the Bears and Packers, but lose the Thanksgiving day game, or moving to the AFC, and playing on Thanksgiving. I think the Lions will choose playing on Thanksgiving Day.
I don't know why the NFL would have extorted the Lions like that.
The Red Wings moved to the East because of time zones. They didn't want to be the only team on EST in their conference. Too many away games starting later. Not a consideration in the NFL.
Quote from: cabiness42 on May 27, 2020, 03:46:48 PM
Quote from: cwf1701 on May 27, 2020, 03:44:39 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on May 26, 2020, 01:59:37 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 26, 2020, 01:49:38 PM
I know you are dealing in hypotheticals here, but the NFL paid the Colts, Steelers and Browns to move. And the only reason the Steelers agreed was if the Browns went with them and would be in the same division.
Plus the Lions would never have given up twice a year games against the Bears and Packers.
Tell that to the Red Wings in 2010, before they got moved from the Western conference to the Eastern Conference. The Wings had a rivalry with the Avalanche and played them up to 10 times a years (including playoffs). I can see likely the Lions having a choice, keep the Bears and Packers, but lose the Thanksgiving day game, or moving to the AFC, and playing on Thanksgiving. I think the Lions will choose playing on Thanksgiving Day.
I don't know why the NFL would have extorted the Lions like that.
The Red Wings moved to the East because of time zones. They didn't want to be the only team on EST in their conference. Too many away games starting later. Not a consideration in the NFL.
Right. The NFL didn't extort any teams. They asked for volunteers and paid them. The Steelers and Browns went as a combination as long as they could be in the same division. The Colts went because they didn't want to play in a division with two west coast teams any longer and when they were given a spot in the AFC East, they jumped at it. (They were in the "Coastal Division" of the western conference with the Rams, Niners and Falcons) They also thought they could have an easier path to the Super Bowl, which turned out to be the case as they were the first "AFC Champion."
The Saints ended up getting screwed because they were shipped out to the NFC West instead of the Cowboys, who wanted to stay in the NFC East with the remaining teams from the NFL's Eastern Conference (Giants, Eagles, Skins, Cardinals)
Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 27, 2020, 04:13:03 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on May 27, 2020, 03:46:48 PM
Quote from: cwf1701 on May 27, 2020, 03:44:39 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on May 26, 2020, 01:59:37 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 26, 2020, 01:49:38 PM
I know you are dealing in hypotheticals here, but the NFL paid the Colts, Steelers and Browns to move. And the only reason the Steelers agreed was if the Browns went with them and would be in the same division.
Plus the Lions would never have given up twice a year games against the Bears and Packers.
Tell that to the Red Wings in 2010, before they got moved from the Western conference to the Eastern Conference. The Wings had a rivalry with the Avalanche and played them up to 10 times a years (including playoffs). I can see likely the Lions having a choice, keep the Bears and Packers, but lose the Thanksgiving day game, or moving to the AFC, and playing on Thanksgiving. I think the Lions will choose playing on Thanksgiving Day.
I don't know why the NFL would have extorted the Lions like that.
The Red Wings moved to the East because of time zones. They didn't want to be the only team on EST in their conference. Too many away games starting later. Not a consideration in the NFL.
Right. The NFL didn't extort any teams. They asked for volunteers and paid them. The Steelers and Browns went as a combination as long as they could be in the same division. The Colts went because they didn't want to play in a division with two west coast teams any longer and when they were given a spot in the AFC East, they jumped at it. (They were in the "Coastal Division" of the western conference with the Rams, Niners and Falcons) They also thought they could have an easier path to the Super Bowl, which turned out to be the case as they were the first "AFC Champion."
The Saints ended up getting screwed because they were shipped out to the NFC West instead of the Cowboys, who wanted to stay in the NFC East with the remaining teams from the NFL's Eastern Conference (Giants, Eagles, Skins, Cardinals)
I know the NFL didn't actually extort anyone, but I was responding to the suggestion that the Lions could have been given the choice between keeping their division rivals or their Thanksgiving Day game. I don't think the NFL would have done that.
Quote from: cabiness42 on May 27, 2020, 04:20:57 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 27, 2020, 04:13:03 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on May 27, 2020, 03:46:48 PM
Quote from: cwf1701 on May 27, 2020, 03:44:39 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on May 26, 2020, 01:59:37 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 26, 2020, 01:49:38 PM
I know you are dealing in hypotheticals here, but the NFL paid the Colts, Steelers and Browns to move. And the only reason the Steelers agreed was if the Browns went with them and would be in the same division.
Plus the Lions would never have given up twice a year games against the Bears and Packers.
Tell that to the Red Wings in 2010, before they got moved from the Western conference to the Eastern Conference. The Wings had a rivalry with the Avalanche and played them up to 10 times a years (including playoffs). I can see likely the Lions having a choice, keep the Bears and Packers, but lose the Thanksgiving day game, or moving to the AFC, and playing on Thanksgiving. I think the Lions will choose playing on Thanksgiving Day.
I don't know why the NFL would have extorted the Lions like that.
The Red Wings moved to the East because of time zones. They didn't want to be the only team on EST in their conference. Too many away games starting later. Not a consideration in the NFL.
Right. The NFL didn't extort any teams. They asked for volunteers and paid them. The Steelers and Browns went as a combination as long as they could be in the same division. The Colts went because they didn't want to play in a division with two west coast teams any longer and when they were given a spot in the AFC East, they jumped at it. (They were in the "Coastal Division" of the western conference with the Rams, Niners and Falcons) They also thought they could have an easier path to the Super Bowl, which turned out to be the case as they were the first "AFC Champion."
The Saints ended up getting screwed because they were shipped out to the NFC West instead of the Cowboys, who wanted to stay in the NFC East with the remaining teams from the NFL's Eastern Conference (Giants, Eagles, Skins, Cardinals)
I know the NFL didn't actually extort anyone, but I was responding to the suggestion that the Lions could have been given the choice between keeping their division rivals or their Thanksgiving Day game. I don't think the NFL would have done that.
Which is why I started with "right." I was agreeing with your statement. Sorry, should have been more clear.
Packers stay in Milwaukee, fail, Milwaukee is left with no pro teams (since the Brewers and Bucks would not have moved there if they saw another team go down in that city).
If the NFL-AFL merger was different and lead to the creation of the MLF (Major League Football) instead?
Had the USFL keep staying as a Spring Football league?
1994: The MLB strike never happens, the Expos win the World Series, and are in Montreal to this day. In 2012, MLB expands by two teams: the Washington Nationals, and the promotion of the Charlotte Knights, both of whom join the AL to even the leagues at 16 teams each. MLB expands into four divisions for each league.
AL East: Baltimore, Boston, New York Yankees, Cleveland
AL North: Toronto, Detroit, Minnesota, Chicago White Sox
AL South: Charlotte, Kansas City, Tampa Bay, Washington
AL West: LA Angels, Oakland, Seattle, Texas
NL Central: Chicago Cubs, Cincinnati, Milwaukee, St. Louis
NL East: Montreal, New York Mets, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh
NL South: Arizona, Atlanta, Florida, Houston
NL West: Colorado, LA Dodgers, San Francisco, San Diego
March 2020: As the Covid-19 outbreak starts to happen, The NFL makes a surprise announcement for the 2020 season. The NFL would alter the 2020 season to a 12 game Division only season with only the Division Winners to go to the playoffs. For the Pandemic season, the NFL would also realline the divisions to a more regional version to shorten travel for some teams: the 2020 NFL Pandemic divisions would be
NFC West: Seattle San Francisco, LA Rams, LA Chargers
AFC West: Las Vegas, Arizona, Denver, Dallas
NFC North: Minnesota, Kansas City, Green Bay, Chicago
AFC North: Detroit, Indianapolis, Cleveland, Cincinnati
AFC East: Buffalo, Pittsburgh, New England, New York jets
NFC East: New York giants, Washington, Philadelphia, Carolina
AFC South Houston, Tennessee, Miami, Jacksonville
NFC South Baltimore, New Orleans, Atlanta, Tampa Bay
When the pandemic ends (whenever that is), all teams would return to their normal divisions.
A couple motorsports what-ifs:
1. What if Ayrton Senna had gone to Williams in 1992? His agent claimed earlier this year that he had a contract offer from the team, and was leaning towards signing with them, but was convinced by Honda to stay at McLaren. After Honda's planned engine upgrade to fight the Williams-Renault V10 didn't materialize for "Ëś92, Senna tried to sign with the team for "Ëś93, but was blocked by his rival Alain Prost, who had already signed with the team earlier in the year and had a contract stipulation that Senna could not be his teammate while he was there. After Prost retired a year later, Senna did go to Williams, where he was uncomfortable with the car, ultimately ending in his untimely death. Had he gone over there two years prior, I think the following events happen:
-Senna and Nigel Mansell are teammates for 1992. Alain Prost returns to McLaren alongside Gerhard Berger. Riccardo Patrese takes Prost's former seat at Ferrari. Senna outduels Mansell to the title, giving him 3 and a row and 4 overall.
-Mansell still leaves F1 for CART, still swapping places with Michael Andretti. Senna walks to the 1993 title, with teammate Andretti a distant second after having less difficulty adjusting to F1 than he would have at McLaren. Prost announces 1994 will be his final F1 season. Patrese retires, with fellow Italian Gianni Morbidelli replacing him at Ferrari.
-For 1994, the Williams' technical restrictions still happen, but the car is a bit closer to Senna's liking, meaning he doesn't have the fateful steering column failure at Imola. Still, he pushes for stricter safety measures as two major accidents at Imola see Senna's protege Rubens Barrichello seriously injured and Roland Ratzenberger killed. The Benetton of Michael Schumacher proves stronger over the course of the season, ending Senna's title streak, and Senna's suspicions of the team using illegal traction control measures are shown to be unfounded. (Senna did think this at the time of his death, in reality.) Prost retires and is replaced at McLaren by Damon Hill, while Morbidelli is dropped by Ferrari in favor of little-known Finn Mika Hakkinen.
-Senna gets his revenge in 1995, starting a streak of three consecutive championships as the Williams regains its form from earlier in the decade.
-Schumacher leaves Benetton for Ferrari in 1996, keeping Hakkinen on as his teammate. Andretti returns to America, replaced at Williams by young Canadian Jacques Villeneuve.
-In 1997, rumors begin stirring that Renault plans to leave F1 at the end of the year, and that Honda is considering a factory return, having only been in the sport via the founder's son's company Mugen since leaving after 1992. Senna meets up with Alain Prost, now the owner of the former Ligier team under the name Prost Grand Prix, with their relationship having improved tremendously since Prost's retirement (as was the case in reality, by many accounts), and talks to the bosses at Honda about a factory effort. 1998 is a learning year for the team, but Senna still wins two races, with Barichello joining him at the team for 1999. Schumacher guides Ferrari to a 1-2 title finish. (In reality, Prost swapped engine suppliers with the Jordan team for 1998, getting the woeful Peugeot engines while Jordan got the Mugen-Honda engines, which eventually became factory Honda engines at the turn of the century.)
-In 1999 and 2000, Senna wins two more titles with Prost-Honda and announces his retirement, and is replaced by fellow South American Juan Pablo Montoya. Barichello goes to Ferrari after 2001, when Hakkinen retires. Montoya and Schumacher trade titles through the first half of the decade, until Schumacher retires and Montoya returns to American racing.
2. What if Davey Allison didn't die in his helicopter crash? I haven't fleshed this one out as much, but although Earnhardt's death was orders of magnitude more notable, Davey's death caused a lot of seats to move in NASCAR in the mid 90s (as did Alan Kulwicki's, to a lesser extent). Here's what I have so far:
-Ernie Irvan doesn't replace Davey at Yates. Davey wins the 1994 Winston Cup title. (In reality, Irvan was running a close second in points behind Earnhardt at the time of the crash that ended his season, and nearly his life, so I think Davey could have matched him, and maybe come out on top.)
-Dale Jarrett doesn't replace Irvan, in turn, and stays at Gibbs. Yates does expand to two cars, with Bobby Labonte joining Allison in the new #88 car.
-Hendrick still dominates the latter half of the 90s, though Davey wins a second title in 1999. Jarrett wins Gibbs' first title in 2000.
Going back much farther, until the latter part of the mid 19th century, the major game in the USA was cricket. Yes, the same game that is played extensively to this day in much of the former British Empire. The soldiers of Washington's Continental Army played it during their free time while fighting in the American Revolution. The first ever international cricket match was played between teams from (modern day) Canada and the USA in NYC in 1844. What happened to it here?
By the time of the USA's Civil War, forces were pushing to professionalize the game, much like professional team sports are now. The people who ruled the sport in North America, especially in the USA, strongly resisted that, while that trend was embraced elsewhere. The result is that it became the national passion that it is now in places like Australia, India and Pakistan, while it ended up quickly dying out in North America. I have seen commentary on the fact that India and Pakistan play international 'Test' cricket matches against each other every couple of years as being a primary reason why there hasn't been a major, devastating war between the two since the time of India's independence from Britain.
Cricket thus dying out in North America left a void in warm weather team sports that was quickly filled by a variant of Rounders that evolved into the Baseball that remains popular today.
What if the people who ruled Cricket in North America during the mid 19th century had similarly embraced professionalism like they did overseas?
Mike
I believe in such an universe where the USA embraces pro cricket during the mid 19th century would result on it being currently the major, most played sport worldwide instead of association football (which would have remained secondary), with major competitions emerging all across Europe in the late 19th/early 20th century as well. Here in Spain each province would have its own cricket team, and I would be cheering for Huesca Cricket Club instead of SD Huesca (and an oval would exist where the Alcoraz stadium stands now).
I do find it kind of interesting in that with the number of immigrants in the USA from parts of the World where cricket is big (especially India) that it isn't bigger here than it is now, perhaps enough so to be able to field a competent, competitive national team. Not that long ago I did see a pickup game being played in an area in my home metro area (Appleton, WI) that has a fairly high neighborhood concentration of immigrant Asian Indians, so you never know.
Mike
Going to a different event, What the Loma Prieta earthquake struck on November 17, 1968 at 7:00PM (EST) instead of October 17 at 8:04PM (EDT). several questions could come up:
(1) If both the east coast (like in our time line) and West coast feed of the game is disrupted, How fast could NBC get in contact with the people assigned to the Oakland Coliseum?
(2) Does a earthquake in 1968 delay the rule changes made for broadcasters following the "Heidi Game" for a couple of years?
(3) If the Oakland Coliseum is damaged beyond repair, could this affect where the A's play in 1969 and the Raiders for the rest of the 1968 AFL season and 1969?
(4) If the A's move to Milwaukee for 1969 and stay for 1970, How does that affect the Seattle Pilots for the 1970 season?
(5) If some of the players are killed in the earthquake, could the NFL/AFL implement the Disaster draft for the Jets and Raiders? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disaster_draft#National_Football_League
The Green Bay Packers won their last game of the 1988 season at the Phoenix Cardinals.
Had they lost that game, they would have fallen into a tie for the worst record in the NFL and would have "won" the tiebreaker with the Cowboys and therefore have the first pick in the 1989 NFL draft.
The Cowboys picked Troy Aikman, who lead them to a decade of success.
The Packers would have certainly Aikman, but instead drafted Tony Mandarich (ahead of the likes of Barry Sanders and Deion Sanders), who was an absolute bust. This ultimately lead to the downfall of the GM and coach, and the eventual hiring of Ron Wolf and Mike Holgren, and the trade for Brett Favre.
That week 16 win for the Packers significantly changed the fortunes of two NFL franchises. I would argue it worked out better for both teams.
Quote from: cwf1701 on July 23, 2020, 01:47:04 PM
Going to a different event, What the Loma Prieta earthquake struck on November 17, 1968 at 7:00PM (EST) instead of October 17 at 8:04PM (EDT). several questions could come up:
(1) If both the east coast (like in our time line) and West coast feed of the game is disrupted, How fast could NBC get in contact with the people assigned to the Oakland Coliseum?
(2) Does a earthquake in 1968 delay the rule changes made for broadcasters following the "Heidi Game" for a couple of years?
(3) If the Oakland Coliseum is damaged beyond repair, could this affect where the A's play in 1969 and the Raiders for the rest of the 1968 AFL season and 1969?
(4) If the A's move to Milwaukee for 1969 and stay for 1970, How does that affect the Seattle Pilots for the 1970 season?
(5) If some of the players are killed in the earthquake, could the NFL/AFL implement the Disaster draft for the Jets and Raiders? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disaster_draft#National_Football_League
Wasn't Loma Prieta in 1989?
Quote from: SEWIGuy on July 23, 2020, 01:56:23 PM
Quote from: cwf1701 on July 23, 2020, 01:47:04 PM
Going to a different event, What the Loma Prieta earthquake struck on November 17, 1968 at 7:00PM (EST) instead of October 17 at 8:04PM (EDT). several questions could come up:
(1) If both the east coast (like in our time line) and West coast feed of the game is disrupted, How fast could NBC get in contact with the people assigned to the Oakland Coliseum?
(2) Does a earthquake in 1968 delay the rule changes made for broadcasters following the "Heidi Game" for a couple of years?
(3) If the Oakland Coliseum is damaged beyond repair, could this affect where the A's play in 1969 and the Raiders for the rest of the 1968 AFL season and 1969?
(4) If the A's move to Milwaukee for 1969 and stay for 1970, How does that affect the Seattle Pilots for the 1970 season?
(5) If some of the players are killed in the earthquake, could the NFL/AFL implement the Disaster draft for the Jets and Raiders? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disaster_draft#National_Football_League
Wasn't Loma Prieta in 1989?
Yes, but this alternate timeline has it happening in '68. It wouldn't have affected Oakland's status as a major-league town, as the A's were already locked in and the Warriors would still move to the Coliseum Arena in 1970.
Here's a huge what-if from 2003:
What if the Red Sox and Cubs had made the World Series back then? Given their ongoing title droughts (at the time, 85 and 95 years, respectively), one team would be guaranteed to end it. Also, thanks to the AL's win in the All-Star Game, Boston would get home-field advantage in the Series, though Chicago would be the more determined team. But I'm glad that everything worked out for both teams, as the Red Sox would win the 2004 World Series (and three more after that), and the Cubs won it all in 2016.
Quote from: Henry on May 20, 2020, 11:13:56 AM
2004: Oklahoma City Thunder form as new expansion team; divisions realign to current setup.
Timeline is a bit off here–Oklahoma City wasn't seriously considered for an NBA franchise until Hurricane Katrina caused the Hornets to play two seasons in OKC, and they got a surprisingly warm welcome from the locals. So Katrina hits in 2005, and you have the Jazz in OKC for 05—06 and 06—07, meaning the earliest the Thunder could form would be 2007, immediately after the Jazz returns to New Orleans.
Unless the Lakers staying in MSP somehow affects the 2002 Atlantic hurricane season. I'm
dying to hear how
that timeline happens. :-D
Quote from: Henry on August 03, 2020, 11:57:52 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on July 23, 2020, 01:56:23 PM
Quote from: cwf1701 on July 23, 2020, 01:47:04 PM
Going to a different event, What the Loma Prieta earthquake struck on November 17, 1968 at 7:00PM (EST) instead of October 17 at 8:04PM (EDT). several questions could come up:
(1) If both the east coast (like in our time line) and West coast feed of the game is disrupted, How fast could NBC get in contact with the people assigned to the Oakland Coliseum?
(2) Does a earthquake in 1968 delay the rule changes made for broadcasters following the "Heidi Game" for a couple of years?
(3) If the Oakland Coliseum is damaged beyond repair, could this affect where the A's play in 1969 and the Raiders for the rest of the 1968 AFL season and 1969?
(4) If the A's move to Milwaukee for 1969 and stay for 1970, How does that affect the Seattle Pilots for the 1970 season?
(5) If some of the players are killed in the earthquake, could the NFL/AFL implement the Disaster draft for the Jets and Raiders? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disaster_draft#National_Football_League
Wasn't Loma Prieta in 1989?
Yes, but this alternate timeline has it happening in '68. It wouldn't have affected Oakland's status as a major-league town, as the A's were already locked in and the Warriors would still move to the Coliseum Arena in 1970.
but in 1989, Candlestick Park did not have its full load when the quake hit, but if if have happened at a time when the Oakland Coliseum was packed, and the quake does damage to the point where the only option Oakland has is to tear down the Coliseum What happens to the Radiers and the A's?
It will be interesting in a few years time to make a timeline in which the coronavirus pandemic didn't happen. There would be some changes already by now, with FC Barcelona becoming La Liga champions instead of Real Madrid, and Real Zaragoza coming back after 7 seasons instead of SD Huesca bouncing back.
Quote from: cwf1701 on August 03, 2020, 09:59:33 PM
Quote from: Henry on August 03, 2020, 11:57:52 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on July 23, 2020, 01:56:23 PM
Quote from: cwf1701 on July 23, 2020, 01:47:04 PM
Going to a different event, What the Loma Prieta earthquake struck on November 17, 1968 at 7:00PM (EST) instead of October 17 at 8:04PM (EDT). several questions could come up:
(1) If both the east coast (like in our time line) and West coast feed of the game is disrupted, How fast could NBC get in contact with the people assigned to the Oakland Coliseum?
(2) Does a earthquake in 1968 delay the rule changes made for broadcasters following the "Heidi Game" for a couple of years?
(3) If the Oakland Coliseum is damaged beyond repair, could this affect where the A's play in 1969 and the Raiders for the rest of the 1968 AFL season and 1969?
(4) If the A's move to Milwaukee for 1969 and stay for 1970, How does that affect the Seattle Pilots for the 1970 season?
(5) If some of the players are killed in the earthquake, could the NFL/AFL implement the Disaster draft for the Jets and Raiders? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disaster_draft#National_Football_League
Wasn't Loma Prieta in 1989?
Yes, but this alternate timeline has it happening in '68. It wouldn't have affected Oakland's status as a major-league town, as the A's were already locked in and the Warriors would still move to the Coliseum Arena in 1970.
but in 1989, Candlestick Park did not have its full load when the quake hit, but if if have happened at a time when the Oakland Coliseum was packed, and the quake does damage to the point where the only option Oakland has is to tear down the Coliseum What happens to the Radiers and the A's?
The Raiders would have several options: Kezar Stadium (where they had played several games in 1960) was still in its larger configuration (~60,000) and completely available (since the 49ers were already in Candlestick); Stanford Stadium and Memorial Stadium (Berkeley) would also have been options, particularly if it was a temporary option.
The A's would have more difficulty, since Candlestick was the only other MLB-size facility in the region. My best guess is they would temporarily use San Jose Municipal Stadium, with bleacher seating expanded to allow 10,000-15,000. The minor league San Jose Bees would go to a local high school or junior college field when there were scheduling conflicts.
Long-term I think they rebuild on the current site; the facility would only have been a few years old, the City-County partnership owned the land; and the movement to bring ballparks back into downtown/city centers was still a couple of decades away. Alternatively, I could see the A's going even more suburban - the Alameda County Fairgrounds in Pleasanton, or a new site in Fremont (foreshadowing a more recent proposal there).
Quote from: DTComposer on August 04, 2020, 03:27:30 PM
but in 1989, Candlestick Park did not have its full load when the quake hit, but if if have happened at a time when the Oakland Coliseum was packed, and the quake does damage to the point where the only option Oakland has is to tear down the Coliseum What happens to the Radiers and the A's?
The Raiders would have several options: Kezar Stadium (where they had played several games in 1960) was still in its larger configuration (~60,000) and completely available (since the 49ers were already in Candlestick); Stanford Stadium and Memorial Stadium (Berkeley) would also have been options, particularly if it was a temporary option.
The A's would have more difficulty, since Candlestick was the only other MLB-size facility in the region. My best guess is they would temporarily use San Jose Municipal Stadium, with bleacher seating expanded to allow 10,000-15,000. The minor league San Jose Bees would go to a local high school or junior college field when there were scheduling conflicts.
Long-term I think they rebuild on the current site; the facility would only have been a few years old, the City-County partnership owned the land; and the movement to bring ballparks back into downtown/city centers was still a couple of decades away. Alternatively, I could see the A's going even more suburban - the Alameda County Fairgrounds in Pleasanton, or a new site in Fremont (foreshadowing a more recent proposal there).
if those options are not available for the A's, could MLB ask the A's to temporally relocate to Milwaukee for the 1969-70 season? If the A's do relocate to Milwaukee for 1969-70, could this affect the Seattle Pilots when they decide to move just before the 1970 season?
What if the Astros and Red Sox had not cheated in 2017 or 2018?
In 2017, the Astros would still be one of the best teams in the AL, but they would likely lose the ALCS to the Yankees in 6. The Dodgers, as stacked as they were, would've won the WS over the Yankees.
2018 rolls around, and the Astros beat the Red Sox in the ALCS. The WS features the Astros and Dodgers. The Astros narrowly secure the title with some late-game heroics from Yuli Gurriel, earning their first WS title.
2019 wouldn't be much different than it was in reality.
2020's coronavirus-shortened season results in the Astros losing the ALCS to the upstart Twins, who gain steam late in the season. The Twins make the WS, but lose to the Dodgers; however, they win in 2021.
2025: The Astros aging lineup still has staying power among the younger Twins and Red Sox, but they can't compete with the Yankees. The World Series features the 110-win Yanks up against the Padres, led by captain Manny Machado.
The Yanks win in four games, but it is revealed that the Yankees have cheated using high tech nanomachines that can sense opposing pitchers thoughts, giving the Yankees an advantage. They accessed these thoughts via a computer, which they hid inside an innocuous trash can. However, the commissioner pardons them, only suspending their manager and a couple of draft picks, since he thought that was enough punishment.
No one quits rooting for the Yankees or protests, because, well, they're the Yankees and they can do these sorts of things (plus, they make the MLB money). No one cares, and baseball keeps going on just as it did.
Quote from: CoreySamson on August 09, 2020, 03:24:18 PM
What if the Astros and Red Sox had not cheated in 2017 or 2018?
In 2017, the Astros would still be one of the best teams in the AL, but they would likely lose the ALCS to the Yankees in 6. The Dodgers, as stacked as they were, would've won the WS over the Yankees.
2018 rolls around, and the Astros beat the Red Sox in the ALCS. The WS features the Astros and Dodgers. The Astros narrowly secure the title with some late-game heroics from Yuli Gurriel, earning their first WS title.
2019 wouldn't be much different than it was in reality.
2020's coronavirus-shortened season results in the Astros losing the ALCS to the upstart Twins, who gain steam late in the season. The Twins make the WS, but lose to the Dodgers; however, they win in 2021.
2025: The Astros aging lineup still has staying power among the younger Twins and Red Sox, but they can't compete with the Yankees. The World Series features the 110-win Yanks up against the Padres, led by captain Manny Machado.
The Yanks win in four games, but it is revealed that the Yankees have cheated using high tech nanomachines that can sense opposing pitchers thoughts, giving the Yankees an advantage. They accessed these thoughts via a computer, which they hid inside an innocuous trash can. However, the commissioner pardons them, only suspending their manager and a couple of draft picks, since he thought that was enough punishment.
No one quits rooting for the Yankees or protests, because, well, they're the Yankees and they can do these sorts of things (plus, they make the MLB money). No one cares, and baseball keeps going on just as it did.
Check yourself before you wreck yourself, Astros fanboy. (: That is a VERY alternate universe...
Pete Carroll calls a run play on 2nd & Goal from the 1 yard line in Super Bowl XLIX. That's all I need to say.
What if Mathew Stafford returns to Georgia for the 2009 season?
(1) Who do the Lions use the Number one pick on and could the Lions have a 2nd 0-16 season?
(2) Which team will pick Stafford in the 2010 draft?
Quote from: I-55 on August 09, 2020, 11:40:07 PM
Pete Carroll calls a run play on 2nd & Goal from the 1 yard line in Super Bowl XLIX. That's all I need to say.
either a. Seahawks score (~50% chance since the Pats were expecting run), go up 31-28, and give the ball back to Brady and the Pats offenese, which had been unstoppable in the fourth quarter, with 25 seconds left. All New England needs is to get a couple first downs and for Gostowski, who was automatic that year, to make a field goal.
or b. Seahawks don't score (~50% chance), and call their final timeout with 25 seconds left. Now facing 3rd & goal with 25 seconds left and no timeouts, and having already used their bread-and-butter run play, they probably throw the ball and the same result ensues: Butler picks off Wilson and New England wins.
So all in all, there's a pretty high chance (75-80%, IMO) that the Pats still win, whether it be in regulation via a Butler interception on 3rd or 4th down, or via overtime (because we know what usually happens when the Pats go into overtime in the playoffs).
Quote from: cwf1701 on August 16, 2020, 08:06:23 PM
What if Mathew Stafford returns to Georgia for the 2009 season?
(1) Who do the Lions use the Number one pick on and could the Lions have a 2nd 0-16 season?
(2) Which team will pick Stafford in the 2010 draft?
1. Lions most likely take Mark Sanchez. He probably looks alright for a little while, but the Lions are back in the market for a new QB by 2012. In the 2012 draft (which was an absolutely loaded one for QB's), they take Ryan Tannehill. Tannehill eventually moves on after his rookie contract expires and it becomes apparent that he's not worth paying. Meanwhile, the Dolphins take Russel Wilson in the 2012 draft (in reality they probably draft Brock Osweiler, but he ended up with Miami anyways several years down the line so that's no fun). Wilson leads the Dolphins to the playoffs several times. In turn the Seahawks draft Nick Foles. They probably still win the Super Bowl in 2013 just based off their defense (and Foles was better than Wilson in 2013 statistcially anyways). The Seahawks move on from Foles after the 2016 season, as it's apparent that he's not that great. They take DeShone Kizer in the 2017 draft, and we can probably infer how that turns out for them. The Browns still do their usual draft blunder and still go 0-16 and draft Baker Mayfield. But the real fun is that the Eagles now don't have Nick Foles, and therefore don't re-sign him in 2017, and therefore don't win Super Bowl LII. There was really nobody else who was great in the NFC that year, so odds are Brady gets his sixth ring, and leaves New England in 2020 with seven total, including three in a row from 2016-18.
2. Assuming Stafford doesn't get hurt or fall of a cliff at UGA in 2009, he goes no. 1 overall to the Rams. Because of his solid QB play, the Rams make the playoffs a couple times. The fan support gained by having a solid team keeps them in St. Louis until at least 2020. The Rams don't fire Jeff Fisher, and therefore don't hire Sean McVay, and therefore do not make the Super Bowl in 2018, and therefore the no-call in the NFC championship game in New Orleans doesn't happen, and therefore pass interference doesn't become reviewable in 2019. Meanwhile, Jared Goff is drafted by the Broncos in 2016.
So in conclusion, if Stafford stays at Georgia for another year . . .
- Dolphins draft Russel Wilson
- Eagles don't win the Super Bowl
- Brady wins another Super Bowl
- Rams might still be in St. Louis
- Rams don't make the Super Bowl
- Pass interference never becomes reviewable
- Jeff Fisher is still an NFL coach
- Broncos draft Jared Goff
- Browns still go 0-16
Wow, that's some Back to the Future stuff right there.
Quote from: cwf1701 on August 06, 2020, 08:03:02 PM
Quote from: DTComposer on August 04, 2020, 03:27:30 PM
The Raiders would have several options: Kezar Stadium (where they had played several games in 1960) was still in its larger configuration (~60,000) and completely available (since the 49ers were already in Candlestick); Stanford Stadium and Memorial Stadium (Berkeley) would also have been options, particularly if it was a temporary option.
The A's would have more difficulty, since Candlestick was the only other MLB-size facility in the region. My best guess is they would temporarily use San Jose Municipal Stadium, with bleacher seating expanded to allow 10,000-15,000. The minor league San Jose Bees would go to a local high school or junior college field when there were scheduling conflicts.
Long-term I think they rebuild on the current site; the facility would only have been a few years old, the City-County partnership owned the land; and the movement to bring ballparks back into downtown/city centers was still a couple of decades away. Alternatively, I could see the A's going even more suburban - the Alameda County Fairgrounds in Pleasanton, or a new site in Fremont (foreshadowing a more recent proposal there).
if those options are not available for the A's, could MLB ask the A's to temporally relocate to Milwaukee for the 1969-70 season? If the A's do relocate to Milwaukee for 1969-70, could this affect the Seattle Pilots when they decide to move just before the 1970 season?
I would think that a temporary relocation would try not to go 2,000 miles away - especially when a team is in its third season and still trying to establish a fan base. That said, options near the Bay Area - mainly Sacramento - were non-existent at the time. Further afield, for temporary options I would consider Portland, Denver, or Phoenix.
Charles Finley was a fickle owner, and if the money was right, I think he'd rather entertain a permanent move to Milwaukee. Were that to happen, I could see:
- Seattle (itself part of a rushed expansion to placate Kansas City when Finley took the A's away) relocates to Denver in 1970;
- Seattle gets the Mariners in 1977 per the OTL;
- Since Denver already has their team, Phoenix gets the Diamondbacks in 1993 rather than 1998.
- When the Raiders return to Oakland in 1995, the Coliseum is completely renovated, making baseball unfeasible there.
- The 1998 expansion goes to either Portland or San Jose (the Giants nearly moved there in the early '90s, and public support for a ballpark would have strengthened).
What if the COVID-19 pandemic never hit? How would the NHL and NBA seasons have played out then (with each going the full 82 games)? Also, would there still have been a work stoppage in MLB (although I do believe there probably would've been anyway, since the current CBA expires next season)?
Quote from: DTComposer on August 17, 2020, 01:07:21 AM
Quote from: cwf1701 on August 06, 2020, 08:03:02 PM
Quote from: DTComposer on August 04, 2020, 03:27:30 PM
The Raiders would have several options: Kezar Stadium (where they had played several games in 1960) was still in its larger configuration (~60,000) and completely available (since the 49ers were already in Candlestick); Stanford Stadium and Memorial Stadium (Berkeley) would also have been options, particularly if it was a temporary option.
The A's would have more difficulty, since Candlestick was the only other MLB-size facility in the region. My best guess is they would temporarily use San Jose Municipal Stadium, with bleacher seating expanded to allow 10,000-15,000. The minor league San Jose Bees would go to a local high school or junior college field when there were scheduling conflicts.
Long-term I think they rebuild on the current site; the facility would only have been a few years old, the City-County partnership owned the land; and the movement to bring ballparks back into downtown/city centers was still a couple of decades away. Alternatively, I could see the A's going even more suburban - the Alameda County Fairgrounds in Pleasanton, or a new site in Fremont (foreshadowing a more recent proposal there).
if those options are not available for the A's, could MLB ask the A's to temporally relocate to Milwaukee for the 1969-70 season? If the A's do relocate to Milwaukee for 1969-70, could this affect the Seattle Pilots when they decide to move just before the 1970 season?
I would think that a temporary relocation would try not to go 2,000 miles away - especially when a team is in its third season and still trying to establish a fan base. That said, options near the Bay Area - mainly Sacramento - were non-existent at the time. Further afield, for temporary options I would consider Portland, Denver, or Phoenix.
Charles Finley was a fickle owner, and if the money was right, I think he'd rather entertain a permanent move to Milwaukee. Were that to happen, I could see:
- Seattle (itself part of a rushed expansion to placate Kansas City when Finley took the A's away) relocates to Denver in 1970;
- Seattle gets the Mariners in 1977 per the OTL;
- Since Denver already has their team, Phoenix gets the Diamondbacks in 1993 rather than 1998.
- When the Raiders return to Oakland in 1995, the Coliseum is completely renovated, making baseball unfeasible there.
- The 1998 expansion goes to either Portland or San Jose (the Giants nearly moved there in the early '90s, and public support for a ballpark would have strengthened).
Back to football in this what-if. If a section of the Coliseum collapse onto the playing field during the quake, which results in a number of players being killed or injured. How does the rest of the 1968 AFL season play out? If both the Raiders and the Jets have over 15 players killed or injured, does the AFL cancel the season for the Jets and Raiders? How does Super Bowl III play out if the Jets and Raiders have their season canceled? After Super Bowl III, would we see the Disaster Draft scenario play out for the Jets and Raiders? Which team would get the Number one draft pick in the 1969 NFL-AFL Draft?
Quote from: Henry on August 19, 2020, 12:23:15 PM
What if the COVID-19 pandemic never hit? How would the NHL and NBA seasons have played out then (with each going the full 82 games)? Also, would there still have been a work stoppage in MLB (although I do believe there probably would've been anyway, since the current CBA expires next season)?
The exact same way they are playing out now. This is a bad question because it's so subjective.
Quote from: thspfc on August 19, 2020, 09:45:57 PM
Quote from: Henry on August 19, 2020, 12:23:15 PM
What if the COVID-19 pandemic never hit? How would the NHL and NBA seasons have played out then (with each going the full 82 games)? Also, would there still have been a work stoppage in MLB (although I do believe there probably would've been anyway, since the current CBA expires next season)?
The exact same way they are playing out now. This is a bad question because it's so subjective.
The Rangers were pushing for the playoffs, but I expect they would have fallen short. I couldn't tell you about the rest of the teams in question.
Quote from: Alps on August 20, 2020, 12:40:48 AM
Quote from: thspfc on August 19, 2020, 09:45:57 PM
Quote from: Henry on August 19, 2020, 12:23:15 PM
What if the COVID-19 pandemic never hit? How would the NHL and NBA seasons have played out then (with each going the full 82 games)? Also, would there still have been a work stoppage in MLB (although I do believe there probably would've been anyway, since the current CBA expires next season)?
The exact same way they are playing out now. This is a bad question because it's so subjective.
The Rangers were pushing for the playoffs, but I expect they would have fallen short. I couldn't tell you about the rest of the teams in question.
In the NBA, the Bucks either would have won it all or they would have fallen a game short in a truly thrilling seven game championship series against the Lakers. As it is now, I'm barely paying attention to it. :-/
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on August 20, 2020, 11:11:28 PM
Quote from: Alps on August 20, 2020, 12:40:48 AM
Quote from: thspfc on August 19, 2020, 09:45:57 PM
Quote from: Henry on August 19, 2020, 12:23:15 PM
What if the COVID-19 pandemic never hit? How would the NHL and NBA seasons have played out then (with each going the full 82 games)? Also, would there still have been a work stoppage in MLB (although I do believe there probably would've been anyway, since the current CBA expires next season)?
The exact same way they are playing out now. This is a bad question because it's so subjective.
The Rangers were pushing for the playoffs, but I expect they would have fallen short. I couldn't tell you about the rest of the teams in question.
In the NBA, the Bucks either would have won it all or they would have fallen a game short in a truly thrilling seven game championship series against the Lakers. As it is now, I'm barely paying attention to it. :-/
Mike
Uh oh, they lost the first game, now their entire season is done.
Actual NBA standings and 82-game projection is as follows
EAST
1. Bucks (56-17, projected to 63-19)
2. Raptors (53-19, projected to 60-22)
3. Celtics (48-24, projected to 55-27)
4. Pacers (45-28, projected to 51-31)
5. Heat (44-29, projected to 50-32)
6. 76ers (43-30, projected to 48-34)
7. Nets (35-37, projected to 40-42)
8. Magic (33-40, projected to 37-45)
9. Hornets (23-42, projected to 29-53)
10. Wizards (25-47, projected to 28-54)
11. Bulls (22-43, projected to 28-54)
12. Knicks (21-45, projected to 26-56)
13. Pistons (20-46, projected to 25-57)
14. Hawks (20-47, projected to 25-57)
15. Cavaliers (19-46, projected to 24-58)
WEST
1. Lakers (52-19, projected to 60-22)
2. Clippers (49-23, projected to 56-26)
3. Nuggets (46-27, projected to 52-30)
4. Rockets (44-28, projected to 50-32)
5. Thunder (44-28, projected to 50-32)
6. Jazz (44-28, projected to 50-32)
7. Mavericks (43-32, projected to 47-35)
8. Trail Blazers (35-39, projected to 39-43)
9. Grizzlies (34-39, projected to 38-44)
10. Suns (34-39, projected to 38-44)
11. Spurs (32-39, projected to 37-45)
12. Kings (31-41, projected to 35-47)
13. Pelicans (30-42, projected to 34-48)
14. Timberwolves (19-45, projected to 24-58)
15. Warriors (15-50, projected to 19-63)
What If: the NFL went to a draft lottery in 2002. The 8 teams to finish last in their division would get the first 8 draft picks in the first round, and all other picks followed in order of standings. However picks 1-8 would be chosen by lottery, so a last place team which finish 8-8 or 9-7 have as much of a chance of picking 1st as a team that goes 1-15 or 2-14. An example is 2008, with a 0-16 finish, the Lions in the lottery end up with the 7th pick overall while the Washington Redskins which finish 8-8 and in last place in the NFC east wins the 1st overall pick. How does the NFL draft lottery change history?
Some hockey on the food for thoughts.
-if the NHL had merged 1 or 2 years earlier with the WHA(World Hockey Association) which would have included the Houston Aeros, would the Stars still move from Minnesota to Dallas?
-what if the Montreal Canadiens had drafted Denis Savard instead of Doug Wickenheiser in 1980?
The Houston Aeros in the NHL? Interesting, in this reality, Houston is the largest North American major city without a NHL team. An alternative NHL with the WHA merger, Birmingham in Alabama is a major league sports town with the Bulls.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birmingham_Bulls_(WHA)
In an alternative universe: COVID-19 never happened, Trump isn't the president (Arnold Schwarzenegger instead) and the Aeros won the stanley cup vs the Bulls.
-how the Toronto Maple Leafs would had done if they didn't got Harrold Ballard as owner of the team? I'm so tempted to nickname the Leafs as "Dead Leafs" as a nod to the nickname "Dead Wings" applied to the Detroit Red Wings between the eras of Gordie Howe and Steve Yzerman.
What if there was no WW2? In December 5, 1941, the St. Louis Browns of the American League decided to relocate to Los Angeles, CA - the first major league baseball team in the west coast. Imagine the 2020 world series: the Los Angeles Browns vs (I rather say defeated) the NL ex-New York/San Francisco Giants, I don't know there will be an Angels, A's, Padres or the Brooklyn then Los Angeles Dodgers in this scenario. The "California" Angels might be in Sacramento, the state capital and the AL Browns in Anaheim instead of the Angels. The Browns relocated to Baltimore and became the Orioles in the 1950s to made the two Washington Senators teams move: 1961 to Minneapolis-St Paul (Minnesota) and 1972 to Dallas-Ft Worth (Texas). Would there be a Baltimore Orioles in this scenario? I know there's the NL Washington Nationals, formerly Montreal Expos.
Quote from: Desert Man on October 25, 2020, 04:13:28 PM
What if there was no WW2? In December 5, 1941, the St. Louis Browns of the American League decided to relocate to Los Angeles, CA - the first major league baseball team in the west coast. Imagine the 2020 world series: the Los Angeles Browns vs (I rather say defeated) the NL ex-New York/San Francisco Giants, I don't know there will be an Angels, A's, Padres or the Brooklyn then Los Angeles Dodgers in this scenario. The "California" Angels might be in Sacramento, the state capital and the AL Browns in Anaheim instead of the Angels. The Browns relocated to Baltimore and became the Orioles in the 1950s to made the two Washington Senators teams move: 1961 to Minneapolis-St Paul (Minnesota) and 1972 to Dallas-Ft Worth (Texas). Would there be a Baltimore Orioles in this scenario? I know there's the NL Washington Nationals, formerly Montreal Expos.
Chances then some group might step on this opportunity to create a rival league like that proposed Continental League https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_League or reviving the old Federal League.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_League
What If, in 1963 the IOC selected Detroit Michigan over Mexico City to host the 1968 Olympics? What could be some side effects of Detroit hosting the games in 1968 (the Detroit Lions getting a new stadium in 1969 and maybe I-96 being built a few years earlier)? Could events not foreseen in 1963 (the Riots of 1967 and the Assassination's of MLK and RFK in 1968) lead to some nations boycotting the games? If Tiger Stadium is picked to host some events, Could the MLB temporally relocate the Tigers to Milwaukee and the NFL set up the Lions to be on the road in the month that the games are held in Detroit (this is assuming the games are held in September 1968)?
October 5, 2015: the Lions trail the Seahawks 13-10 with 1:51 left in the game. Their offense has a 3rd and 1 from Seattle's 11-yard line. Stafford completes it to Calvin Johnson. He is just inches away from the end zone when he fumbles. Seahawks linebacker K.J. Wright hits the bouncing ball out of the back of the end zone. This was an illegal play by Wright, and the Lions should have gotten the ball at the one-yard line as the result of a penalty, which NFL officiating VP Dean Blandino later admitted. However, the Seahawks were not penalized. They took over and needed only one more first down to win the game.
If this call had been made correctly, the NFL would probably look very different today. Detroit most likely would have scored a touchdown to make it 17-13. Seattle would have had one final chance, but at that time their run-heavy offense wasn't built for two minute drill situations with the game on the line. Detroit most likely would have earned their first win to improve to 1-3, while Seattle would have dropped to 1-3 on the season.
October 11, 2015: the Seahawks lost 27-24 to the Bengals, while the Lions lost to the Cardinals 42-17.
October 18, 2015: the Seahawks lost 27-23 to the Panthers, while the Lions beat the Bears 37-34.
If the call was made, after six weeks of the season, the Seahawks likely would have been 1-5, while the Lions would have been 2-4. In reality, the Seahawks finished 10-6, and the Lions 7-9. When you account for the blown call, it's 9-7 vs 8-8. It's not unseasonable to assume that, having started a dismal 1-5, the Seahawks lose at least one more game later on in the season than they did in reality due to bad morale and frustration among a group of players that had barely lost five games over the 2013 and 2014 seasons combined. That puts Seattle at 8-8.
In this scenario, the Lions, Seahawks, and Falcons are all tied in contention for the 6th and final NFC playoff berth at 8-8. Due to the Lions' superior record in games against NFC opponents, they would have won the tiebreaker and made the playoffs. They would have played the Vikings in the wild card round.
January 10, 2016: No matter what actually happpened in that Lions/Vikings Wild Card game, Vikings kicker Blair Walsh almost certainly would not have shanked that 27-yard field goal as time expired.
January 16/17, 2016: Whichever team won the Wild Card game would have likely lost to either the Cardinals or Panthers, like how the Seahawks did in reality.
September, October, and early November 2016: Blair Walsh performed poorly, presumably as a result of lost confidence from the missed kick in the reality Wild Card game against the Seahawks.
November 13, 2016: the Washington Football Redskins defeat the Vikings 26-20. Blair Walsh missed an extra point.
November 15, 2016: the Vikings released Blair Walsh.
In the alternate timeline of the 10/5/2015 call being made correctly, Blair Walsh never loses his confidence, doesn't start playing badly, and the Vikings don't release him.
February 9, 2017: the Seahawks (how ironic) sign Blair Walsh. In this alternate timeline, this doesn't happen because the Vikings didn't release him.
November 5, 2017: Walsh missed three field goals for the Seahawks in a 17-14 loss to the Washington Football Redskins. Since Walsh isn't even playing for the Seahawks in this alternate timeline, probability would say that the average NFL kicker doesn't miss all three of those field goals, and he probably only misses one at most. Therefore, the Seahawks beat the Football Redskins and improve to 6-2.
November 20, 2017: Walsh missed what would have been a game-tying 52-yard field goal in a 34-31 loss to the Falcons. The conversion rate for 52-yarders is about 60%. Therefore, there is a decent chance that the average NFL kicker would have made it, and the game would have gone into overtime, where the Seahawks would have had all the momentum on the back of a comeback from a 31-20 deficit.
December 31, 2017: Walsh missed what would have been a game-winning 49-yard field goal in a 26-24 loss to the Cardinals.
If Seattle had won two of those three games(probability would say that 2/3 is the most likely outcome with the average kicker), or even just the Falcons game, they would have made the playoffs, while the Falcons would have missed out.
January 6/7, 2018: the Seahawks would have played either the Rams or Saints. They likely would have lost to both of those opponents so it doesn't matter.
Now, back to the Vikings:
April 28, 2018: with Blair Walsh still on the roster and kicking well, the Vikings don't draft Auburn kicker Daniel Carlson in the 5th round.
September 16, 2018: Carlson missed three straight field goals late on in a 29-29 tie against the Packers. Again, basic probability says that Blair Walsh converts at least one out of those three, and the Vikings win.
October 7, 2018: the Vikings defeat the Eagles 23-21.
As a result of the Vikings finishing with the same record as the Eagles (9-7) and having the head-to-head win, they make the playoffs instead.
January 6, 2019: the Vikings play the Bears at Soldier Field. Because it's a different game, the Double Doink doesn't happen.
January 12/13, 2019: whoever won the Vikings/Bears game probably loses to the Rams or Saints.
February 22, 2019: the Bears released Cody Parkey. Because the Double Doink didn't happen in the alternate timeline, the Bears don't release him.
This is just part one. There are many more ramifications to come regarding the Eagles, Falcons, Lions, and many other teams.
Dwight Clark does not make "The Catch". The Niner dynasty does not launch so well while Dallas keeps on going so future games with SF see enough Dallas wins to keep Landry around longer. In our timeline, "The Catch" shot down the Cowboys for a decade or so while SF did become a genuine dynasty. Any sort of "what-ifs" from this play not scoring the winning TD could be plausible to some extent.
Rick
Quote from: nexus73 on June 11, 2021, 11:35:45 AM
Dwight Clark does not make "The Catch". The Niner dynasty does not launch so well while Dallas keeps on going so future games with SF see enough Dallas wins to keep Landry around longer. In our timeline, "The Catch" shot down the Cowboys for a decade or so while SF did become a genuine dynasty. Any sort of "what-ifs" from this play not scoring the winning TD could be plausible to some extent.
Rick
Who wins the Cowboys-Bengals super bowl?
Quote from: Stephane Dumas on October 25, 2020, 02:32:52 PM
-how the Toronto Maple Leafs would had done if they didn't got Harrold Ballard as owner of the team? I'm so tempted to nickname the Leafs as "Dead Leafs" as a nod to the nickname "Dead Wings" applied to the Detroit Red Wings between the eras of Gordie Howe and Steve Yzerman.
Speaking of Yzerman: if the Whalers had drafted him in 83 instead of Sylvain Turgeon, would they have won more and still be in Hartford instead of Raleigh?
What if the Pats had drafted Rick Mirer instead of Drew Bledsoe, and then if Mo Lewis didn't cause the severe hit to Bledsoe in 2001?
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on June 11, 2021, 11:10:27 PM
Speaking of Yzerman: if the Whalers had drafted him in 83 instead of Sylvain Turgeon, would they have won more and still be in Hartford instead of Raleigh?
Chances then Yzerman could have been traded to Pittsburgh in 1991 instead of Ron Francis and speaking of Ron Francis, some wonder what if Francis didn't go to Pittsburgh?
https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/what-if-pittsburgh-hartford-undid-the-ron-francis-trade.2788913
https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/worst-trades-in-nhl-history.1823879
VCU defeats Butler in the 2011 Final Four, then goes on to crush an offensively inept UConn team to win the national title. VCU becomes known as the Gonzaga of the East, and Shaka Smart remains the coach to this day while VCU becomes a mainstay in what is now the American Athletic Conference.
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on June 12, 2021, 12:25:08 PM
VCU defeats Butler in the 2011 Final Four, then goes on to crush an offensively inept UConn team to win the national title. VCU becomes known as the Gonzaga of the East, and Shaka Smart remains the coach to this day while VCU becomes a mainstay in what is now the American Athletic Conference.
:happy:
Part two
QuoteOctober 5, 2015: the Lions trail the Seahawks 13-10 with 1:51 left in the game. Their offense has a 3rd and 1 from Seattle's 11-yard line. Stafford completes it to Calvin Johnson. He is just inches away from the end zone when he fumbles. Seahawks linebacker K.J. Wright hits the bouncing ball out of the back of the end zone. This was an illegal play by Wright, and the Lions should have gotten the ball at the one-yard line as the result of a penalty, which NFL officiating VP Dean Blandino later admitted. However, the Seahawks were not penalized. They took over and needed only one more first down to win the game.
. . .
February 22, 2019: the Bears released Cody Parkey. Because the Double Doink didn't happen in the alternate timeline, the Bears don't release him.
Rewind a year.
January 1, 2018: the Lions fired Jim Caldwell. This was a controversial firing already, as Caldwell had posted a winning record with two playoff appearances in four years, coaching for a franchise that historically has been much, much worse than that. In this alternate timeline where the Lions make the playoffs in 2015 at 8-8, Caldwell has now led the team to the playoffs in 75% of the seasons he has coached, and he has never had a losing regular season record. Firing him at that point would have been silly. So in this timeline, Caldwell sticks around.
Februrary 5, 2018: the Lions hired Matt Patricia. In the alternate timeline this doesn't happen because Caldwell doesn't get fired at this time. He stays as New England's DC for the 2018 season.
January 14, 2018: the Titans fired Mike Mularkey.
January 20, 2018: the Titans hired Mike Vrabel. Vrabel is a much better coach than Patricia, but it may not have seemed that way at the time. There's a good chance that the Titans, in looking for a former Patriot, go with Patricia instead.
September-December 2018: Patricia disappoints and the Titans go 7-9 or 8-8.
September-December 2019: Patricia proves to be a really bad hire. Titans go 6-10.
December 30, 2019: this is where things go crazy. The Titans fire Patricia after back-to-back losing seasons. In the alternate timeline, the Falcons have now been mediocre at best, and missed the playoffs, in three straight seasons (remember, as a result of Blair Walsh not being the Seahawks kicker). Bye bye, Dan Quinn.
In a similar fashion, the Lions have now missed the playoffs in consecutive seasons (Caldwell is undoubtedly a better coach than Patricia, but the Lions were too bad to be helped in '18 and '19). Caldwell is fired.
The teams with head coaching openings now are . . .
- Carolina
- Cleveland
- Giants
- Football Redskins
- Lions
- Falcons
- Titans
The Cowboys would follow on January 5.
My guesses are that some of the hires stay the same. Joe Judge to the Giants, Kevin Stefanski to the Browns, and Mike McCarthy to the Cowboys stay the same because those were pretty unexpected. The Panthers were pursuing Matt Rhule for quite a while before any other teams were. That leaves the Titans, Football Redskins, Lions, and Falcons. The Lions' recent hires have shown that they tend towards old-school, "tough guy" coaches. I think Ron Rivera, a very sought-after coaching candidate following his firing from Carolina, fits that mold. If given the choice, Rivera, an offensive coach, would almost certainly decide to take the Lions job instead of the highly unattractive Washington job. That leaves the Titans and Falcons.
Fast forward to January 15, 2021: the Falcons hired Arthur Smith, the offensive coordinator for the real-world Mike Vrabel Titans. So had Atlanta been looking for a HC during the 2020 offseason, they would have wanted an offensive guy.
Rewind back to January 2020: Falcons hire Chiefs OC Eric Bienemy. The Titans continue in their theme of defensive coaches, and hire 49ers DC Robert Saleh. Washington has only the leftovers to pick from because of how terrible their team, owner, and organization as a whole was at this time. They hire former Cowboys HC Jason Garrett.
February 1, 2020: Ryan Tannehill wins Comeback Player of the Year. In the alternate universe where he is on Matt Patricia's team, he does not. Jimmy Garoppolo wins instead.
March 17, 2020: in real life, Ryan Tannehill signed a four-year extension with the Titans. In the alternate timeline, after posting a losing record in 2019 with mediocre stats playing for Tennessee's bad offense, he does not sign this extension, and is released.
Late March 2020: the Titans own the 10th pick in the draft. In need of a quarterback, they trade Marcus Mariota, the 10th overall pick, and their second round pick (42nd overall) to the Chargers in exchange for the 6th overall pick.
April 23, 2020: the Titans draft Justin Herbert; the Chargers draft Mekhi Becton at #10 and Laviska Shenault at #42.
I'm just going to leave it there for now, it's impossible to know how all of this would have played out.
Scott Norwood makes the field goal. The Bills win Super Bowl 25 and Giants DC Bill Belichick is left regarded as a pretty good coordinator but maybe not head coach material for some teams, and his path takes a different arc where he doesn't end up in New England, resulting in Brady never getting a chance.
I can't take credit for this one, but the Bert Emanuel no-catch ruling in the 1999 NFC title game. If it's ruled a catch, it sets up the Bucs possibly beating St. Louis, extinguishing the GSOT Rams before it goes anywhere. Bucs probably smother Tennessee to win the Super Bowl, so Tony Dungy doesn't get unceremoniously jettisoned for Jon Gruden after 2001. Kurt Warner never has the triumph, tribulation, triumph arc to his career as a result, so the Cardinals never get that long-awaited taste of success. That no-catch had major implications immediately for TB, STL, and OAK, and a ripple effect on Arizona.
In an alternate universe... a decent number of non-players (owners, coaches, and referees/umpires) are female.
I believe we currently have zero across all three categories I mentioned above across four major sports.
Quote from: 1 on June 13, 2021, 08:38:23 AM
In an alternate universe... a decent number of non-players (owners, coaches, and referees/umpires) are female.
I believe we currently have zero across all three categories I mentioned above across four major sports.
There are female referees in both NBA and NFL. Becky Hammon will be an NBA head coach within the next few years. Not sure we'll see a majority owner anytime soon.
Remember the original version of the movie "Rollerball"? It is set around 2020 and there is no more pro football. Hard to imagine given our real timeline! Now let's go back to 1975 when the movie came out and see what would need to happen for pro football to end and be replaced by rollerball.
Rick
Quote from: cabiness42 on June 13, 2021, 09:18:54 AM
Quote from: 1 on June 13, 2021, 08:38:23 AM
In an alternate universe... a decent number of non-players (owners, coaches, and referees/umpires) are female.
I believe we currently have zero across all three categories I mentioned above across four major sports.
There are female referees in both NBA and NFL. Becky Hammon will be an NBA head coach within the next few years. Not sure we'll see a majority owner anytime soon.
Baseball has a couple as well. Kim Ng is currently the general manager of the Marlins and has had prominent roles in baseball for decades, and the Giants have a female assistant coach, Alyssa Nakken.
What if BASEketball as shown in the movie of the same name starring the creators of South Park, really took off in popularity?
Going back to Super Bowl LI, in which the Falcons led the Patriots by a 28-3 score, only to lose in OT...
What if Atlanta held on to win? What would become of Tom Brady and the dynasty, then?
Quote from: Henry on June 14, 2021, 11:24:18 AM
Going back to Super Bowl LI, in which the Falcons led the Patriots by a 28-3 score, only to lose in OT...
What if Atlanta held on to win? What would become of Tom Brady and the dynasty, then?
Brady is the disputed goat, not the undisputed goat.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 14, 2021, 12:19:26 PM
Quote from: Henry on June 14, 2021, 11:24:18 AM
Going back to Super Bowl LI, in which the Falcons led the Patriots by a 28-3 score, only to lose in OT...
What if Atlanta held on to win? What would become of Tom Brady and the dynasty, then?
Brady is the disputed goat, not the undisputed goat.
I think it changes perceptions of the Falcons much more than it does the Patriots.
The Pats still had 5 other Super Bowl wins and 8 other appearances in the Brady era besides that one.
Quote from: Henry on June 14, 2021, 11:24:18 AM
Going back to Super Bowl LI, in which the Falcons led the Patriots by a 28-3 score, only to lose in OT...
What if Atlanta held on to win? What would become of Tom Brady and the dynasty, then?
Steelers will be able to claim more SB victories.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 14, 2021, 12:25:03 PM
Quote from: Henry on June 14, 2021, 11:24:18 AM
Going back to Super Bowl LI, in which the Falcons led the Patriots by a 28-3 score, only to lose in OT...
What if Atlanta held on to win? What would become of Tom Brady and the dynasty, then?
Steelers will be able to claim more SB victories.
Although would the Pats losing in 2016 change 2017 and 2018?
What if the Blue Jays and Raptors weren't owned by Canada's largest media conglomerates? Would one or both of them have announced a permanent relocation to a US city by now?
IMHO, if this were the case:
1. The Blue Jays would either relocate to Buffalo or Charlotte and remain in the AL East (there would be some minor league moves as both cities are home to AAA teams). The team would likely adopt the current nickname of their city's AAA team.
2. The Raptors would relocate to Seattle for the 2021-22 season (sharing an arena with the NHL expansion Kraken) and become a reactivated Sonics. With the new Sonics moving to the Western Conference, one of the Timberwolves, Grizzlies, or Pelicans would move to the Eastern Conference.
3. Toronto is granted expansion franchises in both MLB and NBA between 2023 and 2025, which would inherit the names and records of the previous Blue Jays and Raptors respectively. (Also, the expansion Blue Jays would get a new baseball-only stadium.) This would get both leagues to 31 teams, so to even things out (and get both leagues to 32 teams to match the NFL and NHL), MLB grants an expansion franchise to one of Las Vegas (depending on the A's), Nashville, Memphis, or Charlotte (if the old Jays relocated to Buffalo) while the NBA grants an expansion franchise to St. Louis, Las Vegas, or Nashville.
I saw a interesting stuff about the AHL Cleveland Barons. https://records.nhl.com/history
http://www.greatesthockeylegends.com/2008/05/1953-unexpected-challenge-from.html
Quote
1952-53 In May of 1952, City of Cleveland applied for NHL franchise. Application denied. In March of 1953, the Cleveland Barons of the AHL challenged the NHL champions for the Stanley Cup. The NHL governors did not accept this challenge.
QuoteA surprise challenge for the Stanley Cup came from, Jim Hendy, owner of the AHL Cleveland Barons. Hendy reckoned the trophy was originally a challenge trophy and he tried to get through any loophole he could. The challenge was dismissed for two reasons: The Barons had not yet won their own league championship, and AHL teams were considered to lesser teams than NHL teams. The original Stanley Cup challenge rules stated that any challenger must be of equal caliber.
Ironically, a bit later the Cleveland Barons won the Calder Cup. What if the NHL had accepted the challenge of the AHL Cleveland Barons?
- Robert Moses and Walter O'Malley work together to either build the park O'Malley wanted in Brooklyn or he accepts the stadium Moses wanted to eventually build in Queens (Shea).
- No teams ever move to California. Rather the Pacific Coast League just slowly evolves into a major league, MLB recognizes this and keeps balance by adding a 4th major league made up of the cities expanded or relocated to in OTL. Each maintains itself as a separate 8 team circuit, with playoffs and a World Series.
- In the AFL-NFL merger, rather than transferring BAL, CLE, and PIT, the NFL transfers 3 of the 4 1960s expansion teams (MIN, DAL, NO, ATL),
- Or it transfers either 2 or no teams, with quicker expansion to fill the AFC up to even by 1980 or so.
- Same era, the NFL decides to have a baseball like format, with an NFL and an AFL playing in separate leagues, meeting only in the Super Bowl.
- In OTL the AFC owners agreed on geographically logical divisions in 5 minutes. The NFC owners argued for a month until they just had a secretary draw out of a hat. DAL was in the east only in one of the five plans in the hat. Any other plan DAL is not playing the big east coast cities and is not on TV all the time.
- Montreal is not awarded the Olympics. It thus keeps its promise to build the Expos a proper stadium by 1972. Said stadium is designed by someone who had actually seen a baseball game and does not try to build an unproven retractable roof that didn't work.
- The Commissioner of Baseball simply tells the Cubs and Braves that this superstation thing is in violation of the Basic Agreement and thus the two teams are not on TV nationwide every day for over 20 years.
- GHW Bush wins reelection. Thus the NLRB is 2 to 1 Republican, rather than 2 to 1 democrat. As such the 2 to 1 vote that the owners had engaged in unfair labor practices is reversed. The owners win the baseball strike and, like every other sport, baseball has a salary cap.
- The geographically illogical original divisions of the NL, done to give the Cubs and Cardinals less late night games, are not agreed to. Braves and Reds in the east in the 1970s and 80s.
- MLB either does not expand to SEA in 69, or the team is better funded, or it follows through on its original plan to not expand until 72 (giving the city time to build a proper stadium). The Pilots never go broke, and Bud Selig does not turn them into the Brewers. Baseball, having already failed there once, never gives MIL, and Selig, a team and he is never involved in baseball.
- Cuba avoids the communist take over, and continues on the path it was on in the 1950s, meaning it would be a first world level country by 1975 or so. Havana gets an MLB team.
- Baseball never expands to Florida or Arizona. Rather a special package of TV games is set up there, with all teams sharing the $$.
How does a baseball stadium in New York keep the Batista government in power or change the result of the 1992 election?
With the recent passing of former goaler Tony Esposito, a thought come in mind.
"Tony O" played 13 games with the Habs before being drafted by the Chicago Blackhawks due to having lots of goaltenders like Rogatien "Roggie" Vachon, Gump Worsley, Phil Myre and an upcoming goaler named Ken Dryden. We could wonder what if the Blackhawks had drafter Roggie Vachon or Phil Myre instead of Tony O?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mR96fup7Vs0
The Bruins and the Leafs also passed on another good goaltender who'll have his heydays with the Flyers, Bernie Parent. What if Bernie never played with the Flyers?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_txuHcvr94
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 04, 2021, 12:04:43 AM
How does a baseball stadium in New York keep the Batista government in power or change the result of the 1992 election?
Clearly Castro, notably a former baseball player himself, sees an opportunity to run a team in California and thinks "you know, maybe this political revolution thing isn't so great after all" .
Or maybe it's just wishful thinking of a noted righty.
I was just thinking: what if the Red Sox beat the Yankees in that game in 1978 (the Bucky Dent game)? How would things have changed for both teams, as well as for baseball as a whole?
Quote from: KCRoadFan on September 02, 2021, 07:42:52 AM
I was just thinking: what if the Red Sox beat the Yankees in that game in 1978 (the Bucky Dent game)? How would things have changed for both teams, as well as for baseball as a whole?
Not quite a lot, as the Yankees would just sign big names like they always do for the sole goal of winning a championship, and the Red Sox would probably lose to the Dodgers/Phillies in the World Series, if not to the Royals in the ALCS. Remember, the Curse of the Bambino was still ongoing in those years.
Another round of conference realignments and I've thought of a new what if . . .
What if the Southwest Conference had jumped the gun on the SEC and poached Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and Nebraska from the Big 8 before the SEC stole Arkansas from them, and in the process convincing Arkansas to stay.
Who does the SEC go after instead of Arkansas? Miami was a power at the time and brings the biggest TV market within the SEC footprint not already in the fold.
Now the ACC needs to poach one more team from the Big East in 2004, so they get UConn instead of Miami.