My apologies if this has been covered before, I searched and didn't find anything.
Best road to DC to and from to Columbus. Last time I took I-70, many years ago, it sucked. Thinking about taking I-70 to I-79 to I-68. Or should I take that crossover that uses PA state routes and US 40?
Thoughts?
Quote from: TempoNick on May 11, 2021, 04:42:09 AM
My apologies if this has been covered before, I searched and didn't find anything.
Best road to DC to and from to Columbus. Last time I took I-70, many years ago, it sucked. Thinking about taking I-70 to I-79 to I-68. Or should I take that crossover that uses PA state routes and US 40?
Thoughts?
Coming from Columbus, I'd just stick to I-70. I-68 only helps with traffic coming from the SW or NE.
Google maps recommends using PA 43/US 40/I-68 between both I-70 points. US 40 is mostly a 2 lane road, though you'll only be on it for 30 miles.
I know you asked for a fastest route, but a longer but more scenic option is using ADHS Corridors D (US 50) and H (US 48). US 48 isn't finished yet, but it's a 4 lane expressway for the most part.
I've done the reciprocal a few times. Fastest toll-free route is simply 70 to 79 to 68, which is also faster than just staying on 70 as Rothman suggested.
Google's suggestion (mentioned by SkyPesos) requires tolls along PA 43.
Definitely take I-79 to I-68.
It's only 5 miles longer than I-70, still as all interstate highway, and avoids the Turnpike and high tolls entirely. Plus the entire route is 70 mph (except that small 40 mph through Cumberland of course) and avoids the long crawl of 55 mph I-70 between Breezewood and Maryland. And avoids Breezewood itself. And IIRC I-70 seems to be a never ending construction zone east of Washington, PA, so you're also avoiding that.
Plus I've driven both roads, IMO, I-68 is a far nicer highway with less traffic than I-70. It has a somewhat scenic aspect to it as well. There are some grades, but if you're simply in a passenger vehicle not pulling anything you should be fine maintaining 70+ mph. Climbing lanes are all over that road helping to avoid the slower trucks.
As far as SkyPesos aforementioned US-40 / PA-68 route, it only saves a total of 3 minutes vs. I-79, half of it tolled, and the other half is 2 lane backroads. Something I'd try to avoid on a long distance trip, of course unless you're up for the change in pace which in that case maybe give it a try.
Columbus to DC? Any of the ARC corridors (D or H) are out of the way; too far south. Best alternative to I-70 (tolls, substandard section between Washington and New Stanton, and Breezewood) is definitely I-79 to I-68.
US-33 to Athens, then US-50 east to Clarksburg, is a good route. Very little traffic, especially between Parkersburg and Clarksburg. hbelkins is right that getting from Clarksburg to Corridor H is somewhat out of the way, but you could very easily take I-79 north to I-68 from there.
The route Google Maps recommends is I-70 to the PA-43 toll road, then south to Uniontown, then US-40 to I-68. If you go that way, watch out for cops near the Maryland state line. This route is 403 miles. We went that way going westbound and it was fine. PA-43 was empty. More pleasant drive than the Pennsylvania Turnpike.
If you take the Pennsylvania Turnpike route through Breezewood, Google Maps quotes 412 miles (using simply "Columbus OH" and "Washington DC"). The new US-219 south of Somerset adds six miles to that (US-219 to I-68 back to I-70 at Hancock).
Google says I-70 to I-79 to I-68 is 420 miles and US-33 to US-50 to I-79 to I-68 is 429 miles.
So, all in all, not a huge difference in distance between any of those routes. Interestingly, the route it suggest to use to connect from Clarksburg to Corridor H subtracts distance (418 miles) but adds time (about half an hour) because it uses some back roads. If you want to see something interesting, you could pass through Philippi to see the covered bridge.
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 11, 2021, 09:20:53 AM
As far as SkyPesos aforementioned US-40 / PA-68 route, it only saves a total of 3 minutes vs. I-79, half of it tolled, and the other half is 2 lane backroads. Something I'd try to avoid on a long distance trip, of course unless you're up for the change in pace which in that case maybe give it a try.
Only 3 minutes? I'm surprised the difference is that little considering that the PA 43/US 40 routing is like the hypotenuse of a right triangle while I-79/68 is the other two sides, even with the 2 lane US 40. The fact that you're going a bit far south in Morgantown to get onto I-68 before going back north on I-68 seems like it would add a good amount of time on that routing. Though I have seen proposals of a Northern Bypass for Morgantown floating around, which would definitely put I-79/68 over PA 43/US 40 for time.
Quote from: SkyPesos on May 11, 2021, 12:09:26 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 11, 2021, 09:20:53 AM
As far as SkyPesos aforementioned US-40 / PA-68 route, it only saves a total of 3 minutes vs. I-79, half of it tolled, and the other half is 2 lane backroads. Something I'd try to avoid on a long distance trip, of course unless you're up for the change in pace which in that case maybe give it a try.
Only 3 minutes? I'm surprised the difference is that little considering that the PA 43/US 40 routing is like the hypotenuse of a right triangle while I-79/68 is the other two sides, even with the 2 lane US 40. The fact that you're going a bit far south in Morgantown to get onto I-68 before going back north on I-68 seems like it would add a good amount of time on that routing. Though I have seen proposals of a Northern Bypass for Morgantown floating around, which would definitely put I-79/68 over PA 43/US 40 for time.
US 40 has a gnarly mountain descent east of Uniontown. I don't recall the speed limit for cars but for trucks it is 10 mph IIRC.
If time is an issue at all I use 70-79-68 for this corridor.
Quote from: Mapmikey on May 11, 2021, 12:37:00 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on May 11, 2021, 12:09:26 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 11, 2021, 09:20:53 AM
As far as SkyPesos aforementioned US-40 / PA-68 route, it only saves a total of 3 minutes vs. I-79, half of it tolled, and the other half is 2 lane backroads. Something I'd try to avoid on a long distance trip, of course unless you're up for the change in pace which in that case maybe give it a try.
Only 3 minutes? I'm surprised the difference is that little considering that the PA 43/US 40 routing is like the hypotenuse of a right triangle while I-79/68 is the other two sides, even with the 2 lane US 40. The fact that you're going a bit far south in Morgantown to get onto I-68 before going back north on I-68 seems like it would add a good amount of time on that routing. Though I have seen proposals of a Northern Bypass for Morgantown floating around, which would definitely put I-79/68 over PA 43/US 40 for time.
US 40 has a gnarly mountain descent east of Uniontown. I don't recall the speed limit for cars but for trucks it is 10 mph IIRC.
If time is an issue at all I use 70-79-68 for this corridor.
I found the 10 mph mountain decent (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8561729,-79.6624398,3a,37.4y,84.49h,88.57t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVDdDd4qkpapUbZ8ypz-4WA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192). Yikes. At least that section is 4 lane divided so cars can pass on the left.
Quote from: froggie on May 11, 2021, 09:16:11 AMFastest toll-free route is simply 70 to 79 to 68, which is also faster than just staying on 70 as Rothman suggested.
So it is - only by a few minutes, but I still find that quite surprising considering it's almost 10 miles longer. Besides the elephant in the room (Breezewood), why would that be? Higher speed limits, presumably?
Quote from: webny99 on May 11, 2021, 01:09:58 PM
Quote from: froggie on May 11, 2021, 09:16:11 AMFastest toll-free route is simply 70 to 79 to 68, which is also faster than just staying on 70 as Rothman suggested.
So it is - only by a few minutes, but I still find that quite surprising considering it's almost 10 miles longer. Besides the elephant in the room (Breezewood), why would that be? Higher speed limits, presumably?
I am also a little confused by this as well, given how mich shorter I-70 is.
The route down US 40 just screams that you'd get stuck behind a slow driver or truck.
It's only about 5 miles longer and I-70 has all those 55 mph zones that drag on plus obviously Breezewood.
I-68 and I-79 are 70 mph throughout with the sole exception of Cumberland, MD which is a quick pass through and the brief lower speed limit is actually logical.
Plus I-68 is far more scenic, has less traffic, and much more modern design than I-70 is, which wouldn't affect travel times necessary but just a plus for going that way. Also, no tolls.
Maryland has numerous signs as far as just outside of Washington, D.C. that advertise I-68 as an alternative route west. It simply just is the better route, there's no question. Unless you're going north of Pittsburgh along I-76 towards Youngstown, Cleveland, and further west, no real reason to jump up to the Turnpike, pay the high toll, and get stuck in all those artificial 55 mph zones along with substandard highway in general.
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 11, 2021, 01:48:04 PM
It's only about 5 miles longer and I-70 has all those 55 mph zones that drag on plus obviously Breezewood.
I-68 and I-79 are 70 mph throughout with the sole exception of Cumberland, MD which is a quick pass through and the brief lower speed limit is actually logical.
Plus I-68 is far more scenic, has less traffic, and much more modern design than I-70 is, which wouldn't affect travel times necessary but just a plus for going that way. Also, no tolls.
Maryland has numerous signs as far as just outside of Washington, D.C. that advertise I-68 as an alternative route west. It simply just is the better route, there's no question. Unless you're going north of Pittsburgh along I-76 towards Youngstown, Cleveland, and further west, no real reason to jump up to the Turnpike, pay the high toll, and get stuck in all those artificial 55 mph zones along with substandard highway in general.
Don't forget that I-70 also has a 40 mph zone in the vicinity of the Monongahela River...
Thanks for confirming my instincts about using I-68. Looking at it on the map and considering the convoluted route it follows in Pennsylvania, especially considering that break in Breezewood, I wonder why they just don't reroute I-70 along I-68. It would make a lot more sense. But maybe traffic would increase too much and toll revenue would decrease for Pennsylvania.
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 11, 2021, 12:05:24 PM
US-33 to Athens, then US-50 east to Clarksburg, is a good route. Very little traffic, especially between Parkersburg and Clarksburg.
I've thought about doing this long before when I was just looking at the map, but I have yet to ever use i-68 and kind of wanted to do that. Maybe different routes coming and going, but you know how it is going home. You tend to want to get home.
I-68 may be a great way to shunpike, but that substandard section through Cumberland is a major problem for it.
Quote from: TempoNick on May 11, 2021, 03:39:57 PM
Thanks for confirming my instincts about using I-68. Looking at it on the map and considering the convoluted route it follows in Pennsylvania, especially considering that break in Breezewood, I wonder why they just don't reroute I-70 along I-68. It would make a lot more sense. But maybe traffic would increase too much and toll revenue would decrease for Pennsylvania.
Probably just inertia, especially when considering that I-68 came much later compared to those segments of I-70. Plus if you reroute I-70, you'd have to come up with 2 3di's to cover the orphaned segments on either side of the PA Turnpike. (or perhaps an eastern I-72 for Washington-New Stanton and a southern extension of I-99 for Breezewood-Hancock... :awesomeface:)
Quote from: TempoNick on May 11, 2021, 03:43:24 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 11, 2021, 12:05:24 PM
US-33 to Athens, then US-50 east to Clarksburg, is a good route. Very little traffic, especially between Parkersburg and Clarksburg.
I've thought about doing this long before when I was just looking at the map, but I have yet to ever use i-68 and kind of wanted to do that. Maybe different routes coming and going, but you know how it is going home. You tend to want to get home.
You could very easily combine that with I-68: Take US-33 southeast from Columbus to Athens, then take US-50 east to Clarksburg. US-50 is a four-lane highway posted at 65 mph for most of the segment between Parkersburg and Clarksburg and there is very little traffic on the road (and very few traffic lights). When you get to Clarksburg, just head north on I-79 and it'll take you directly to I-68, which you can then easily clinch on your way to DC.
Google Maps says that route is a whole
nine miles longer than the I-70 > I-79 > I-68 route. Nine miles is trivial, IMO, but then I'm willing to go 100 miles out of the way just to use a new route (much to my wife's chagrin).
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Columbus,+OH/Washington,+District+of+Columbia/@39.9705617,-80.9422957,8z/data=!4m15!4m14!1m5!1m1!1s0x883889c1b990de71:0xe43266f8cfb1b533!2m2!1d-82.9987942!2d39.9611755!1m5!1m1!1s0x89b7c6de5af6e45b:0xc2524522d4885d2a!2m2!1d-77.0368707!2d38.9071923!3e0!5i1
Quote from: Henry on May 11, 2021, 04:08:29 PM
I-68 may be a great way to shunpike, but that substandard section through Cumberland is a major problem for it.
When I drove I-68 this past summer, Cumberland was not an issue. You slow down for a whole 5 miles and traffic still moved 55-60+ mph despite the lower limit. There's no real reason or demand to fix it, and there's no congestion caused by it unless you have an inability to slow down from 80+ mph.
Quote from: jmacswimmer on May 11, 2021, 04:14:33 PM
[
Probably just inertia, especially when considering that I-68 came much later compared to those segments of I-70. Plus if you reroute I-70, you'd have to come up with 2 3di's to cover the orphaned segments on either side of the PA Turnpike.
How about Interstate 176, 376, 576 or something like that?
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 11, 2021, 04:25:59 PM
I'm willing to go 100 miles out of the way just to use a new route (much to my wife's chagrin).
The nice thing about the internet is discovering that there are other oddballs out there with the same quirky interests. I've done the same thing to experience Ohio 823, US 35, US 20 in Iowa, US 33 after it was completed south of Columbus and other goofy things like that. Last fall, I detoured through Quincy, Illinois on my way to Sioux Falls, just to experience all the four laned us routes.
That's why the wife flies. Lol.
US 20 in Iowa was definitely underwhelming. I was expecting it to be a lot better than it was considering how they made a big deal about four laning it.
Quote from: TempoNick on May 11, 2021, 06:36:09 PM
Quote from: jmacswimmer on May 11, 2021, 04:14:33 PM
[
Probably just inertia, especially when considering that I-68 came much later compared to those segments of I-70. Plus if you reroute I-70, you'd have to come up with 2 3di's to cover the orphaned segments on either side of the PA Turnpike.
How about Interstate 176, 376, 576 or something like that?
All used already.
Quote from: TempoNick on May 11, 2021, 06:41:05 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 11, 2021, 04:25:59 PM
I'm willing to go 100 miles out of the way just to use a new route (much to my wife's chagrin).
The nice thing about the internet is discovering that there are other oddballs out there with the same quirky interests. I've done the same thing to experience Ohio 823, US 35, US 20 in Iowa, US 33 after it was completed south of Columbus and other goofy things like that. Last fall, I detoured through Quincy, Illinois on my way to Sioux Falls, just to experience all the four laned us roots.
That's why the wife flies. Lol.
US 20 in Iowa was definitely underwhelming. I was expecting it to be a lot better than it was considering how they made a big deal about four laning it.
My parents are the same as the average wives mentioned in this thread lol. I wanted to use US 50 between Cincy and St Louis once because I-64 and I-70 are boring after driving each at least a dozen times, but they won't allow it.
Other than the roadgeekery aspect of it, I don't understand why anyone in Columbus would use US 33 and US 50 to reach Morgantown. I-70 is pretty much a straight shot east, and I-79 a straight shot south. You're traveling southeast on US 33 to get to a point where you go east on US 50 -- and Corridor D is curvier than you might expect -- only to have to drive 25 or so miles north on I-79 to get to I-68.
Quote from: hbelkins on May 11, 2021, 08:18:40 PM
Other than the roadgeekery aspect of it, I don't understand why anyone in Columbus would use US 33 and US 50 to reach Morgantown.
I know more people seem to be fans of US 35 around here, but despite what people think, US 33 is a pretty good route. I've driven US 50 around Parkersburg but not further. Both of those roads have been fine every time I've driven them, so as long as they get you to your destination, they are a viable option. But if you have to go too far out of your way, then, yes, the conventional routes are the ones you should take.
But for those who haven't taken Route 33 before, once you pass Petzinger Road going south, it's pretty good, IMO.
I don't know how I'm going to explain my trip to Evansville to the wife once I-69 is complete.
Quote from: TempoNick on May 11, 2021, 10:50:32 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 11, 2021, 08:18:40 PM
Other than the roadgeekery aspect of it, I don't understand why anyone in Columbus would use US 33 and US 50 to reach Morgantown.
I know more people seem to be fans of US 35 around here, but despite what people think, US 33 is a pretty good route. I've driven US 50 around Parkersburg but not further. Both of those roads have been fine every time I've driven them, so as long as they get you to your destination, they are a viable option. But if you have to go too far out of your way, then, yes, the conventional routes are the ones you should take.
But for those who haven't taken Route 33 before, once you pass Petzinger Road going south, it's pretty good, IMO.
I don't know how I'm going to explain my trip to Evansville to the wife once I-69 is complete.
To Charleston from Columbus, it's a toss-up between 23/35 and 33. If I was driving between those two points, the two lane section of 33 may be worth taking over the mess that is US 23 between Chillicothe and I-270, which has much more truck traffic and a strip of traffic signals in various areas, notably Circleville. I have been on 33 between Columbus and Logan before, and it's a pretty nice drive with rolling hills.
Excluding Columbus, US 35 serves more areas in the greater Midwest than 33 does. It's part of the fastest route from Chicago to Charleston via 70 and 65 west of Dayton. From Cincinnati, you can use 71 to 35 if you're in the northern suburbs (where I am), or 32 to 35 from the city center or eastern suburbs.
Quote from: Mapmikey on May 11, 2021, 12:37:00 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on May 11, 2021, 12:09:26 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 11, 2021, 09:20:53 AM
As far as SkyPesos aforementioned US-40 / PA-68 route, it only saves a total of 3 minutes vs. I-79, half of it tolled, and the other half is 2 lane backroads. Something I'd try to avoid on a long distance trip, of course unless you're up for the change in pace which in that case maybe give it a try.
Only 3 minutes? I'm surprised the difference is that little considering that the PA 43/US 40 routing is like the hypotenuse of a right triangle while I-79/68 is the other two sides, even with the 2 lane US 40. The fact that you're going a bit far south in Morgantown to get onto I-68 before going back north on I-68 seems like it would add a good amount of time on that routing. Though I have seen proposals of a Northern Bypass for Morgantown floating around, which would definitely put I-79/68 over PA 43/US 40 for time.
The idea of a full northern Morgantown bypass is long dead. There's a half-baked plan that will eventually connect from I-79 to US 119 but you'd still be better off sticking to I-68.
Quote from: Mapmikey on May 11, 2021, 12:37:00 PM
US 40 has a gnarly mountain descent east of Uniontown. I don't recall the speed limit for cars but for trucks it is 10 mph IIRC.
If time is an issue at all I use 70-79-68 for this corridor.
The problem with US 40 is that it has limited passing opportunities and a decent amount of traffic. It can get sluggish (~40-45mph) on weekends with tourists, especially west of PA 381. The hill into Uniontown isn't really an issue for cars as it has a 55mph speed limit and there are two lanes, so you can pass slow moving trucks.
If you're driving across the mountains in the wintertime, I'd stick to I-70's routing. I-68 and US 40 get a lot of snow in the higher elevations (east of Morgantown/Uniontown to Frostburg) and snow removal on US 40 and the WV part of I-68 can leave much to be desired. Even in the middle of summer, depending on weather conditions, you can see dense fog with very limited visibility on I-68 in Garrett County, Maryland.
Quote from: TempoNick on May 11, 2021, 03:43:24 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 11, 2021, 12:05:24 PM
US-33 to Athens, then US-50 east to Clarksburg, is a good route. Very little traffic, especially between Parkersburg and Clarksburg.
I've thought about doing this long before when I was just looking at the map, but I have yet to ever use i-68 and kind of wanted to do that. Maybe different routes coming and going, but you know how it is going home. You tend to want to get home.
US 50 is very boring, especially east of Parkersburg. If you're going to go via I-68, just take I-70 east from Columbus unless you're dying to drive Corridor D.
Quote from: Mapmikey on May 11, 2021, 01:54:25 PM
Don't forget that I-70 also has a 40 mph zone in the vicinity of the Monongahela River...
Yikes, is there construction currently, or has there always been a 40 mph zone?
Quote from: hbelkins on May 11, 2021, 08:18:40 PM
Other than the roadgeekery aspect of it, I don't understand why anyone in Columbus would use US 33 and US 50 to reach Morgantown. I-70 is pretty much a straight shot east, and I-79 a straight shot south. You're traveling southeast on US 33 to get to a point where you go east on US 50 -- and Corridor D is curvier than you might expect -- only to have to drive 25 or so miles north on I-79 to get to I-68.
The time we did it, one major reason was a big construction project at the junction of I-70 and I-77 that was slowing the traffic down big-time. I'm sure that construction is done by now, of course. Another reason was just boredom with the Interstate.
As I noted, nine miles' difference (Google says 19 minutes' travel time difference) between the all-Interstate route and the US-33 > US-50 route. Aside from generally having a speed limit that's 5 mph higher between Columbus and Morgantown (mostly 70 mph versus mostly 65 mph), what's so much better about the Interstate?
I recognize I likely have some ingrained preference for getting off the Interstate because my father–who was by no means a roadgeek–often liked to get off the highway just to reduce some of the sense of sameness you get on the Interstate, though he did so judiciously to balance seeing something new with making reasonable time (so he would be unlikely to go 100 miles out of the way just to use a different route). In my mind, a difference of 20 minutes' travel time in a drive of 400+ miles is trivial, whereas of course I recognize if it were a short local drive that would be a totally different matter.
Quote from: TempoNick on May 11, 2021, 10:50:32 PM
I don't know how I'm going to explain my trip to Evansville to the wife once I-69 is complete.
You mean explain your routing, or your justification for going?
If the former, seems to me that from Columbus, a simple I-70 to I-69 routing would be best (although there were arguments that I-70 to US 41 only added a handful of miles to the trip when people were looking for reasons not to build I-69).
If the latter, me telling my wife, "I want to go drive such-and-such road" is usually answered by, "Have fun and be careful!"
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 12, 2021, 08:20:36 AM
As I noted, nine miles' difference (Google says 19 minutes' travel time difference) between the all-Interstate route and the US-33 > US-50 route. Aside from generally having a speed limit that's 5 mph higher between Columbus and Morgantown (mostly 70 mph versus mostly 65 mph), what's so much better about the Interstate?
That's one of those things that doesn't logically compute if you look at a map. Going basically due east on I-70 and then due south on I-79, vs. a long southeastward angle on US 33, followed by an eastward jaunt on US 50, then more or less due north to slightly northeastward on I-79 to get to the terminus of I-68.
Granted, I've been known to take WV 2, I-77, and US 50 to Clarksburg instead of I-64 and I-79 just for a change of pace, and I will typically default to WV 2 over the interstate between Parkersburg and Huntington, but that's mostly due to roadgeekery interests.
Quote from: hbelkins on May 12, 2021, 12:39:22 PM
Quote from: TempoNick on May 11, 2021, 10:50:32 PM
I don't know how I'm going to explain my trip to Evansville to the wife once I-69 is complete.
You mean explain your routing, or your justification for going?
If the former, seems to me that from Columbus, a simple I-70 to I-69 routing would be best (although there were arguments that I-70 to US 41 only added a handful of miles to the trip when people were looking for reasons not to build I-69).
If the latter, me telling my wife, "I want to go drive such-and-such road" is usually answered by, "Have fun and be careful!"
From Columbus to Evansville, isn't the most direct route currently I-71 to I-64? Though when I-69 is complete, you only have to deal with Indianapolis with 70-69, while there's both Cincinnati and Louisville to deal with on 71-64.
Quote from: SkyPesos on May 12, 2021, 06:14:10 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 12, 2021, 12:39:22 PM
Quote from: TempoNick on May 11, 2021, 10:50:32 PM
I don't know how I'm going to explain my trip to Evansville to the wife once I-69 is complete.
You mean explain your routing, or your justification for going?
If the former, seems to me that from Columbus, a simple I-70 to I-69 routing would be best (although there were arguments that I-70 to US 41 only added a handful of miles to the trip when people were looking for reasons not to build I-69).
If the latter, me telling my wife, "I want to go drive such-and-such road" is usually answered by, "Have fun and be careful!"
From Columbus to Evansville, isn't the most direct route currently I-71 to I-64?
But the point of the trip would be to clinch I-69 I presume...
Quote from: SkyPesos on May 12, 2021, 06:14:10 PM
From Columbus to Evansville, isn't the most direct route currently I-71 to I-64? Though when I-69 is complete, you only have to deal with Indianapolis with 70-69, while there's both Cincinnati and Louisville to deal with on 71-64.
Solely for the purpose of road geekery. I want to drive I-69 when it is finally complete!
Quote from: webny99 on May 12, 2021, 07:48:35 AM
Quote from: Mapmikey on May 11, 2021, 01:54:25 PM
Don't forget that I-70 also has a 40 mph zone in the vicinity of the Monongahela River...
Yikes, is there construction currently, or has there always been a 40 mph zone?
I misspoke. It is 45 mph from Exit 39 to Exit 42 and has been there back to at least 2007 (GMSV).
Quote from: hbelkins on May 12, 2021, 12:39:22 PM
....
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 12, 2021, 08:20:36 AM
As I noted, nine miles' difference (Google says 19 minutes' travel time difference) between the all-Interstate route and the US-33 > US-50 route. Aside from generally having a speed limit that's 5 mph higher between Columbus and Morgantown (mostly 70 mph versus mostly 65 mph), what's so much better about the Interstate?
That's one of those things that doesn't logically compute if you look at a map. Going basically due east on I-70 and then due south on I-79, vs. a long southeastward angle on US 33, followed by an eastward jaunt on US 50, then more or less due north to slightly northeastward on I-79 to get to the terminus of I-68.
Granted, I've been known to take WV 2, I-77, and US 50 to Clarksburg instead of I-64 and I-79 just for a change of pace, and I will typically default to WV 2 over the interstate between Parkersburg and Huntington, but that's mostly due to roadgeekery interests.
I suppose it's also fair to concede that from a map, it's not always apparent which US highways are functionally similar to Interstates (even if the speed limit may be slightly lower), such as US-33 southeast of Columbus, and it's definitely not apparent whether a given US highway lets you move at Interstate-like speeds despite having at-grade intersections, such as most of Corridor D between Parkersburg and Clarksburg allows. That's all the more so if the map is an electronic one like Google Maps, given that some paper maps do distinguish between full freeways and at-grade "expressways."
Quote from: Henry on May 11, 2021, 04:08:29 PM
I-68 may be a great way to shunpike, but that substandard section through Cumberland is a major problem for it.
I've driven that part of I-68 through Cumberland, MD. You won't notice the slowdown there and you might stop in the area for a rest and food break, anyways.
Mike
Of course you should do both. It depends what kind of ride you want:
I-70: in PA follows the PA turnpike, one of the earliest limited access freeways in the US. Beautiful mountain views, tunnels; narrow, tighter curves and heavy truck traffic, tolls. +/- Breezewood, I don't mind it.
I-68: one of the newest highways in the US, and engineered like other 1980s highways (US 31 in MI; I-43 around Sheboygan) through similarly beautiful mountains and passes. Less truck traffic, less harrowing than 70, no tolls. Nothing much interesting along the route.
Sideling Hill and Cumberland are "nothing much interesting"?
Quote from: jmacswimmer on May 11, 2021, 04:14:33 PM
Probably just inertia, especially when considering that I-68 came much later compared to those segments of I-70. Plus if you reroute I-70, you'd have to come up with 2 3di's to cover the orphaned segments on either side of the PA Turnpike. (or perhaps an eastern I-72 for Washington-New Stanton and a southern extension of I-99 for Breezewood-Hancock... :awesomeface:)
Making the interstate that passes through Breezewood I-99 instead of I-70 would be extremely fitting, in a way...
Quote from: vdeane on May 15, 2021, 11:45:17 PM
Sideling Hill and Cumberland are "nothing much interesting"?
...or the fact I-68 is consistently voted one of the most scenic interstate highways in the country in our polls?
As someone that commutes daily on the substandard stretch of I-70 between Washington (PA) and New Stanton, I would recommend any other route. It is too narrow, no median space whatsoever (left lane is right against the barrier), and has way too much traffic for 4 narrow lanes. Plus, if there is an accident on that stretch (almost a daily occurrence because people drive way too fast given the substandardness of the road), traffic will be backed up for miles. If I recall correctly, there was a proposal years ago to build a new 6-lane I-70 in that area, but it never got approved.
Plus, let's not forget to mention the rapidly increasing tolls on the PA Turnpike and the cluster-you-know-what known as Breezewood.
Quote from: mgk920 on May 14, 2021, 02:59:53 PM
Quote from: Henry on May 11, 2021, 04:08:29 PM
I-68 may be a great way to shunpike, but that substandard section through Cumberland is a major problem for it.
I've driven that part of I-68 through Cumberland, MD. You won't notice the slowdown there and you might stop in the area for a rest and food break, anyways.
Mike
That is another advantage of I-68. You have more variety and more frequent opportunities for gas/food. The Turnpike rest stops all have the same 5-6 food choices, and some are still closed due to COVID. Exiting the Turnpike for anything else often incurs a "penalty" (entering at A, exiting & re-entering at B, and exiting at C costs more than going from A to C without exiting in-between).
Quote from: MASTERNC on May 16, 2021, 11:21:10 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on May 14, 2021, 02:59:53 PM
Quote from: Henry on May 11, 2021, 04:08:29 PM
I-68 may be a great way to shunpike, but that substandard section through Cumberland is a major problem for it.
I've driven that part of I-68 through Cumberland, MD. You won't notice the slowdown there and you might stop in the area for a rest and food break, anyways.
Mike
That is another advantage of I-68. You have more variety and more frequent opportunities for gas/food. The Turnpike rest stops all have the same 5-6 food choices, and some are still closed due to COVID. Exiting the Turnpike for anything else often incurs a "penalty" (entering at A, exiting & re-entering at B, and exiting at C costs more than going from A to C without exiting in-between).
You get a penalty just for choosing to take the Turnpike.
Quote from: jmd41280 on May 16, 2021, 09:31:14 AM
As someone that commutes daily on the substandard stretch of I-70 between Washington (PA) and New Stanton, I would recommend any other route.
My first reaction was that I totally agree. Except this is the same guy that for a whole year found it easier to commute from Greensburg to West Mifflin by using I-70 and PA-51 than using US-30 and whatever route to get across the Mon made sense that day. I liked US-30 going home in the evenings, tending to prefer route over the Dravosburg Bridge.
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 16, 2021, 12:32:34 PM
Quote from: MASTERNC on May 16, 2021, 11:21:10 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on May 14, 2021, 02:59:53 PM
Quote from: Henry on May 11, 2021, 04:08:29 PM
I-68 may be a great way to shunpike, but that substandard section through Cumberland is a major problem for it.
I've driven that part of I-68 through Cumberland, MD. You won't notice the slowdown there and you might stop in the area for a rest and food break, anyways.
Mike
That is another advantage of I-68. You have more variety and more frequent opportunities for gas/food. The Turnpike rest stops all have the same 5-6 food choices, and some are still closed due to COVID. Exiting the Turnpike for anything else often incurs a "penalty" (entering at A, exiting & re-entering at B, and exiting at C costs more than going from A to C without exiting in-between).
You get a penalty just for choosing to take the Turnpike.
Unless you live in Philly and want to reach Pittsburgh (or vice versa). It costs you 45 minutes to cut down into MD from Carlisle. Have to imagine taking US 30 would do the same thing.
Quote from: TempoNick on May 11, 2021, 06:36:09 PM
Quote from: jmacswimmer on May 11, 2021, 04:14:33 PM
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Probably just inertia, especially when considering that I-68 came much later compared to those segments of I-70. Plus if you reroute I-70, you'd have to come up with 2 3di's to cover the orphaned segments on either side of the PA Turnpike.
How about Interstate 176, 376, 576 or something like that?
How about leaving I-70 where it is, since Pittsburgh is a major metropolitan area and deserves to be served, directly or indirectly, by an Interstate ending in '0'? Besides, there's an ongoing
reconstruction (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.2154294,-79.6209496,3a,75y,78.63h,90.26t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sMZlFYdWVgameVy7cAFc4Qw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) and
modernization (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1358286,-80.0104726,3a,75y,125.45h,91.66t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqgmjpHwqNFCzhD-1iebxxg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) of the substandard segment of I-70 between Washington and New Stanton.
Quote from: Gnutella on May 19, 2021, 03:15:40 AM
since Pittsburgh is a major metropolitan area and deserves to be served, directly or indirectly, by an Interstate ending in '0'
Pittsburgh isn't as large as you think.
Quote from: jmacswimmer on May 11, 2021, 04:14:33 PM
Quote from: TempoNick on May 11, 2021, 03:39:57 PM
Thanks for confirming my instincts about using I-68. Looking at it on the map and considering the convoluted route it follows in Pennsylvania, especially considering that break in Breezewood, I wonder why they just don't reroute I-70 along I-68. It would make a lot more sense. But maybe traffic would increase too much and toll revenue would decrease for Pennsylvania.
Probably just inertia, especially when considering that I-68 came much later compared to those segments of I-70. Plus if you reroute I-70, you'd have to come up with 2 3di's to cover the orphaned segments on either side of the PA Turnpike. (or perhaps an eastern I-72 for Washington-New Stanton and a southern extension of I-99 for Breezewood-Hancock... :awesomeface:)
There's no real reason to re-route and disturb numbering that's been in place for decades. The rebuilt sections of I-70 between Washington and New Stanton and on the Turnpike are pretty nice. Breezewood to Hancock is adequate, Breezewood itself aside. I-70 has greatly reduced grades compared to I-68, which is a big issue for trucks and, frankly, even some cars. I-70's current alignment also has better weather conditions with fewer problems from snow in winter and fog the rest of the year.
Not that one person is any more anecdotal than, well, one person.... but I have a friend who has said he'll just use the Turnpike as the combo of hills and curves (and curves on hills) has made him a little carsick on I-68 in the past.
Personally, When heading to DC, Baltimore, Delmarva, I usually mix it up. I'll head in one direction using the turnpike (in fairness, my starting point is in Pittsburgh, not Columbus), then I-68 and either US-219 or US-40 in the other direction. Planning on going to the beach in a few weeks with my folks - looking forward to checking out the just-completed US-219 construction from I-68 to near the state line.
Quote from: 1 on May 19, 2021, 06:16:33 AM
Quote from: Gnutella on May 19, 2021, 03:15:40 AM
since Pittsburgh is a major metropolitan area and deserves to be served, directly or indirectly, by an Interstate ending in '0'
Pittsburgh isn't as large as you think.
First of all, it's one of only 34 Metropolitan Statistical Areas in the United States with at least 2,000,000 population, so yes, it is a major city, like it or not. Second of all, the only one of those 34 Metropolitan Statistical Areas that does not have at least one Interstate ending in '5' or '0' passing through it is Orlando, which a) was a sleepy backwater when the Interstate Highway System was signed into law, b) didn't pass 2,000,000 population until the 2010 Census, and c) is located on a peninsula, isolating it from the east/west portion of the Interstate grid.
This idea that Pittsburgh is not a major city is ignorant. And no, I don't want to hear about population loss either, unless you're also prepared to reroute I-75 away from Detroit, and I-80 and I-90 away from Cleveland. If those three Interstates all stay put, then I-70 stays fucking put as well.
Heh. A lot of people in the world would see the anger on this forum as strange and unnecessary.
And, going from "Pittsburgh is big enough that I-70 should be re-routed" to "I-70 stays put" is an interesting argument shift.
Honestly, none of the interstate highways need to be rerouted. It would cause too much confusion. These routes have already been established for decades.
And for the record, I-80 doesn't reach Cleveland in the same way I-70 doesn't reach Pittsburgh.
Quote from: Gnutella on May 20, 2021, 03:28:57 AM
Quote from: 1 on May 19, 2021, 06:16:33 AM
Quote from: Gnutella on May 19, 2021, 03:15:40 AM
since Pittsburgh is a major metropolitan area and deserves to be served, directly or indirectly, by an Interstate ending in '0'
Pittsburgh isn't as large as you think.
First of all, it's one of only 34 Metropolitan Statistical Areas in the United States with at least 2,000,000 population, so yes, it is a major city, like it or not. Second of all, the only one of those 34 Metropolitan Statistical Areas that does not have at least one Interstate ending in '5' or '0' passing through it is Orlando, which a) was a sleepy backwater when the Interstate Highway System was signed into law, b) didn't pass 2,000,000 population until the 2010 Census, and c) is located on a peninsula, isolating it from the east/west portion of the Interstate grid.
This idea that Pittsburgh is not a major city is ignorant. And no, I don't want to hear about population loss either, unless you're also prepared to reroute I-75 away from Detroit, and I-80 and I-90 away from Cleveland. If those three Interstates all stay put, then I-70 stays fucking put as well.
Also, you have to keep in mind that Pittsburgh would be a far, far larger city of Pennsylvania state law would be rewritten to include most or all of a metro area in the city limits. Most cities in Pennsylvania are seriously 'underbound'.
Mike
Quote from: 1 on May 19, 2021, 06:16:33 AM
Quote from: Gnutella on May 19, 2021, 03:15:40 AM
since Pittsburgh is a major metropolitan area and deserves to be served, directly or indirectly, by an Interstate ending in '0'
Pittsburgh isn't as large as you think.
Angelo71 has entered the chat. :bigass:
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 20, 2021, 10:26:30 AM
Honestly, none of the interstate highways need to be rerouted. It would cause too much confusion. These routes have already been established for decades.
And for the record, I-80 doesn't reach Cleveland in the same way I-70 doesn't reach Pittsburgh.
I don't know that it would really cause as much confusion as other reroutings/renumberings might. The Pennsylvania Turnpike already carries the I-76 number, and I imagine most people refer to it by name rather than number anyway. Really, the most-impacted stretch of road would be the part of I-70 between Washington and New Stanton, and it might be best for that not to carry an Interstate number anyway.
Quote from: Gnutella on May 19, 2021, 03:15:40 AM
How about leaving I-70 where it is, since Pittsburgh is a major metropolitan area and deserves to be served, directly or indirectly, by an Interstate ending in '0'? Besides, there's an ongoing reconstruction (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.2154294,-79.6209496,3a,75y,78.63h,90.26t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sMZlFYdWVgameVy7cAFc4Qw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) and modernization (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1358286,-80.0104726,3a,75y,125.45h,91.66t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqgmjpHwqNFCzhD-1iebxxg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) of the substandard segment of I-70 between Washington and New Stanton.
Rerouting I-70 through Morgantown would basically leave it where it is.
Quote from: Bitmapped on May 19, 2021, 08:59:53 AM
There's no real reason to re-route and disturb numbering that's been in place for decades. The rebuilt sections of I-70 between Washington and New Stanton and on the Turnpike are pretty nice. Breezewood to Hancock is adequate, Breezewood itself aside. I-70 has greatly reduced grades compared to I-68, which is a big issue for trucks and, frankly, even some cars. I-70's current alignment also has better weather conditions with fewer problems from snow in winter and fog the rest of the year.
I-70 is supposed to be one of our major East-West corridors. It dead ends in the middle of nowhere in Baltimore, has that Gap in Breezewood, substandard roads in PA and Missouri; has an ugly left hand turn in Indianapolis (but it's good in Ohio and Illinois). Rerouting I-70 along I-68 would be more consistent with what I-70 is supposed to be. It deserves to be a better road.
Quote from: Gnutella on May 20, 2021, 03:28:57 AM
First of all, it's one of only 34 Metropolitan Statistical Areas in the United States with at least 2,000,000 population, so yes, it is a major city, like it or not. Second of all, the only one of those 34 Metropolitan Statistical Areas ...
Yeah, city population means nothing. You have to look at the size of the entire metro area. That determines what kinds of businesses and amenities a city has. A city the size of Pittsburgh would never be able to support the Steelers. It's because the metro area is so large that the Steelers are viable as a business.
Another good way to look at area size is by looking at the size of the TV market. I think Pittsburgh is the 22nd largest TV market or something like that. That's pretty big.
Quote from: TempoNick on May 28, 2021, 08:41:53 PM
Quote from: Bitmapped on May 19, 2021, 08:59:53 AM
There's no real reason to re-route and disturb numbering that's been in place for decades. The rebuilt sections of I-70 between Washington and New Stanton and on the Turnpike are pretty nice. Breezewood to Hancock is adequate, Breezewood itself aside. I-70 has greatly reduced grades compared to I-68, which is a big issue for trucks and, frankly, even some cars. I-70's current alignment also has better weather conditions with fewer problems from snow in winter and fog the rest of the year.
I-70 is supposed to be one of our major East-West corridors. It dead ends in the middle of nowhere in Baltimore, has that Gap in Breezewood, substandard roads in PA and Missouri; has an ugly left hand turn in Indianapolis (but it's good in Ohio and Illinois). Rerouting I-70 along I-68 would be more consistent with what I-70 is supposed to be. It deserves to be a better road.
And was done on the somewhat cheap through the mountains just west of Denver, not drilling the proposed Red-Buffalo tunnel in favor of the 7% grades over Vail Pass, for one.
Mike