AARoads Forum

I have a bunch of great photos from the Turnpike from the 1950s through the early 1970s that I will post in waves roughly beginning at the northern end.

We'll start at the original northern terminus of the NJ Turnpike.  Long before interstate 80, the Turnpike simply ended at a trumpet interchange with US 46.  This configuration lasted until 1969 (the bridge over US 46 still exists just east of the mainline Turnpike with only the exit ramp active); the toll booth was removed in 1964 when it was combined with the toll booth at exit 16 (today 16E).

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-1V7bFS8eQ9I/UQnEaCWwm3I/AAAAAAAAACE/Vzy9J6HXxQI/s640/exit%252018.jpg)

Once the tollbooths for Exit 18 were moved south and combined with Exit 16 in 1964, the END OF TURNPIKE signs were erected (and lasted only five years until 1969 when I-95 was completed to I-80).  You can still see the horizontal lines across the pavement from the old toll plaza.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-4YCcickUow0/UQnHw87BEXI/AAAAAAAAACw/XdtE7ovJ58s/s640/end%2520of%2520tpk.jpg)

Looking northbound at the original exit 16 - a split plaza before being combined with exit 18 in 1964.  It is important to note that at this time (prior to 1964) exit 17 existed just north as a FULL INTERCHANGE!! Today exit 16E accounts for that access with a ramp leading to NJ3 west in roughly the same location (in this picture, exit 16 only headed towards the Lincoln Tunnel).  Like several early Turnpike exits (exit 12, the original exit 10 - Garden State Parkway) this exit was (and is) only accessible to and from one direction.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-aTntNA0JvKY/UQnLg4JR8dI/AAAAAAAAADQ/faHOb7dsy9U/s640/exit%252016.jpg)

This is located northbound just prior to where interchange 15X is today.  Until 1974 several major Turnpike bridges did not have shoulders and this system was used to indicate lane closures when a vehicle broke down or due to constriction.  The  LANE CLOSED AHEAD sign could be moved physically to indicate a lane closure long before the standard VMS.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-LwL1Re8fME8/UQnGWj3Ax-I/AAAAAAAAACY/alB4sOks-4I/s640/exit%252016-18.jpg)


To be continued.....

Steve, those are great old photos of the Turnpike that I remember as a kid. Please continue to post whatever you have. I remember what a treat it was to ride the NJT in that era when the parkways and expressways in the New York area still had 40-45 mile speed limits. But the big New Jersey Turnpike had a 60 mph speed limit! which went well with my dad's '57 Chevy.

I especially liked the original toll plazas with their widely spaced booths (common all over the NYC area in that era) where you could sometimes use the right lane and pay the toll on the right-hand side. Though not very efficient for large traffic volume, they were aesthetically pleasing. The slanted roof added to that effect as well.

NJTPA maintains a large archive of Turnpike memorabilia. A ton of photos landed up in the Arcadia Press book "Images of America: The New Jersey Turnpike" if anyone is looking for more. The NJ State Museum also had an exhibit entitled "What Exit?: New Jersey and it's Turnpike" that made its rounds at various locations in the state back in 2002. One of these days I'll post some photos of the exhibit that I took.

Great finds!  Love pictures of the old toll booth at Ridgefield Park.  If memory serves me correctly both I-95 to I-80 and the Western Spur both opened at the same time. 

I also remember seeing on an old Esso map, that I-80 was completed long before the section of free I-95 from US 46 to I-80 was finished.  That meant for a while, I-95 was a temporary I-80 (just like I-287 was supposed to be from the NJ Turnpike to Durham Avenue in Edison) and may explain why some people think that I-95 is Route 80 north of the trans continental interstate terminus as of today.

Now that you mention it, I do recall that (when headed north) we had to get off of the Turnpike on a less than freeway-spec roadway (US 46).  The END OF TURNPIKE signs look very familiar!  And, I am reminded of my father touting the "new" way to the G. Washington Bridge. 

I was just a little kid then, but already a roadgeek who could read signs.   :spin:

Fascinating pictures! I wasn't on the New Jersey Turnpike myself until August of 1989. That was when me and my brother did an escorted weekend trip to Washington DC (we were coming from central Connecticut). I'm fairly certain that the Turnpike was being widened down to the recent car/truck lane split we had at mile marker 73 near Exit 8A. Despite being 18, this was my first foray into New York City proper, NJ, DE, MD, VA and Washington DC. We stayed on the Turnpike and went over the Delaware Memorial Bridge (I wouldn't add PA until March of 1991). :)

Thanks for sharing these with us.  Excellent photos that brought back a lot of fond childhood memories for me!   My first trips on the New Jersey Turnpike were in 1967 when my oldest brother was a freshman at the Naval Academy in Annapolis.  Even at the age of six, I was the only other person in the car that my father would trust to guard the road maps and the toll ticket.  In later years, I was also given the responsibility of keeping track of the mileage we had driven as well.

We would stop at one of the service plazas on the Turnpike to have lunch, which my mother made and packed for us (usually baloney or ham with cheese sandwiches and orange soda).  And we would always get gas at an Esso station on US 46 just after leaving the Turnpike.

I've seen many older pics of the NJ Turnpike, but these have escaped my attention so far.  Great pics from many moons ago...and I look forward to seeing the many more you have (especially as you come further south down the 'Pike)!

Yes! Any pre-widening shots north of Exit 8A/MM 73 would be fun to see! Otherwise, what about Exit 4 (NJ Route 73) in Mount Laurel?

Great pictures, thanks for posting. When I was a kid I seldom saw the Turnpike north of Exit 13 because our relatives lived in Brooklyn and so we'd exit at either Exit 10 or Exit 13 to head across Staten Island. So I will be quite interested in seeing your pictures from further south simply because that's the part of the road I know best.

That picture of Exit 16 is really interesting because the center "guardrail" looks more like a wooden fence you might see in any rural area! The cop car in the same picture is also interesting, and I notice there are some people standing in the far right lane.

Quote from: NJRoadfan on January 30, 2013, 10:08:13 PM
NJTPA maintains a large archive of Turnpike memorabilia. A ton of photos landed up in the Arcadia Press book "Images of America: The New Jersey Turnpike" if anyone is looking for more.

That's going on my Amazon.com wish list today. I hope there's a Kindle version, because I have a lot of books cluttering up my place, and I'm seriously considering getting a Kindle Fire before the Spring of 2013.

Quote from: NJRoadfan on January 30, 2013, 10:08:13 PM
The NJ State Museum also had an exhibit entitled "What Exit?: New Jersey and it's Turnpike" that made its rounds at various locations in the state back in 2002. One of these days I'll post some photos of the exhibit that I took.

You do that.

Quote from: Steve D on January 30, 2013, 08:47:56 PM
I have a bunch of great photos from the Turnpike from the 1950s through the early 1970s that I will post in waves roughly beginning at the northern end.

We'll start at the original northern terminus of the NJ Turnpike.  Long before interstate 80, the Turnpike simply ended at a trumpet interchange with US 46.  This configuration lasted until 1969 (the bridge over US 46 still exists just east of the mainline Turnpike with only the exit ramp active); the toll booth was removed in 1964 when it was combined with the toll booth at exit 16 (today 16E).

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-1V7bFS8eQ9I/UQnEaCWwm3I/AAAAAAAAACE/Vzy9J6HXxQI/s640/exit%252018.jpg)

Ah, so now I know what this maintenance yard is for: http://goo.gl/maps/suR0X. It's the former toll plaza.

I've been on that last leg of US 46 a few times as an alternate to the George Washington Bridge. Imagine if that road, along with the combined US Routes 1 and 9, had become I-95? There's no way that could've worked! It's bad enough that the section of I-95 north of this photo curves around Leonia, NJ. Probably NIMBYs who caused that one!

Quote from: KEVIN_224 on January 31, 2013, 02:48:46 PM
I've been on that last leg of US 46 a few times as an alternate to the George Washington Bridge. Imagine if that road, along with the combined US Routes 1 and 9, had become I-95? There's no way that could've worked! It's bad enough that the section of I-95 north of this photo curves around Leonia, NJ. Probably NIMBYs who caused that one!

I believe I read somewhere that Leonia's local government filed suit to change the original routing, which would have been a straight line cutting through their central business district. I don't know whether they won the case or whether the final alignment was the result of a settlement.

Interesting that so many of us older guys have such great memories of the Turnpike's early era.

Roadman65 was right in his earlier post about the opening of I-80/95. It did open from the GWB to maybe the G.S. Parkway or Paterson circa 1964-65. I still remember seeing the huge interchange being built at the west end of the GWB complex in Fort Lee. Let me tell ya, when that 10-lane express/local highway (the first of many in NJ) opened, it was like science fiction came true for this 14 year-old. It cut the travel time from the Bridge to the Parkway from a half-hour on Rt.46 down to 10 minutes. 

The so called missing mile (as the Turnpike Troopers called it for years afterwards) connecting the Turnpike to I-80/95 didn't open 'til maybe 1969 with the western leg of the NJT, as stated above.

1995Shoo, good observation about the temporary median fence in the Exit-16 photo. I believe that was a construction area fence. In the photo it looks like construction was just starting on the expanded Exit-16 with the wide toll plaza. That fence in the photo was no way the standard median. In the 1960's they already had steel-guide rails in the median. 

That "LANE CLOSED AHEAD" sign in Secaucus made me think: When did the electronic signs first appear on the gantries? I mean the ones with the sign panels which rotated when given travel lanes were closed due to weather, etc.

Wow, I wanna thank you for posting these pictures!

As a child of about the age of 4, I remember being in awe at how the mighty NJ Turnpike began with two roads converging together from opposite directions, when we drove home one night from the northern terminus.  Yet after that. every time we went towards that end, by day, I could never seem to find those diverging roads, as I was hoping to take the other leg of the wye.  (Yes, I was a roadgeek as far back as age 3.)  Now I know wye, er, why!  New construction did away with them.  Except that this journey took place in 1970 at the earliest, and 1971 at the latest, so maybe I didn't see the construction since it was at night.

I do remember seeing those trapezoidal, half-intimidating, "End Of Turnpike" signs at least once.  I thought I remembered them reading "End of NJ Turnpike."  Or that could be from a later trip, in which I did see a sign that I think read EoNT, but it was a simple rectangular black-on-white informational sign on a pole on the median.   Hmm, it seems that the reason things weren't as I remembered them, was because by the time we returned, things were in fact different!

The "End of Turnpike" signs in the photo I posted existed until 1969/1970, when the Turnpike was connected with I-95/80.   After this new connection  opened, new rectangular signs saying "End of NJ Turnpike" were posted right at US 46 before the "missing mile" started (MM 118).  So you are not imagining things! These signs lasted until the early 1990s when the NJTP Authority took over maintenance of I-95, making it technically part of the Turnpike.

I plan on posting some more photos tonight..

Quote from: 1995hoo on January 31, 2013, 04:09:17 PM

Quote from: KEVIN_224 on January 31, 2013, 02:48:46 PM
I've been on that last leg of US 46 a few times as an alternate to the George Washington Bridge. Imagine if that road, along with the combined US Routes 1 and 9, had become I-95? There's no way that could've worked! It's bad enough that the section of I-95 north of this photo curves around Leonia, NJ. Probably NIMBYs who caused that one!

I believe I read somewhere that Leonia's local government filed suit to change the original routing, which would have been a straight line cutting through their central business district. I don't know whether they won the case or whether the final alignment was the result of a settlement.

I think the alignment also had to do with getting around Overpeck Park thanks to the increeping environmental regulations at the time. To what degree it's one vs. the other, *shrug*

Kevin, those variable-message signs with the rotating panels were built with the western leg/dual roadways from about 1969 on. Before that the only variable-message signs were those neon signs that warn of dangerous conditions ahead. At least, that's how I remember it.

Love them so much and can someone post a picture of Exit 14-14 A,B,c from the years 1956-1977, and in 1977 I-78 exits 48-58 was opened, but I've seen some pictures of exit 9 RT-18 when it was a trumpet interchange with out the Cars only ramps, and cars, trucks, buses ramps

Part 2...

Just north of Exit 15(E) in the 1950s.  Note the lack of shoulders and almost no median -- very unusual for the NJTP today, but common on the large bridge structures such as this until 1974 (I think a very small median was installed in the 1960's but was replaced with the 1974 modernization).
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-uMLE0UkbYYo/UQskcf6M1SI/AAAAAAAAAEI/XEbfaiLJv-k/s640/exit%252015.jpg)

The signs for the northbound Western Spur split are unveiled for the Western Spur opening in January 1970.  These signs were quickly replaced by drum-style VMS signs around 1973 and then again around 2005.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-djIILrxLJsA/UQseqA4pawI/AAAAAAAAADs/V5sCiLM54vk/s640/split%2520sign%25202.jpg)

Another set of signs for the northbound split for the Western Spur, a mile south of the previous.  Again, no drum-style VMS in 1970.  The top sign said TURNPIKE DIVIDES 1 MILE AHEAD (black on yellow).
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-XsOgJPstPso/UQnJmpjPRfI/AAAAAAAAADE/Ye1XG3WiNLQ/s640/split%2520sign.jpg)

The original exit 14 in the shortest-lived interchange configuration in Turnpike history - five years (1951-56).  This picture pre-dates the Newark Bay - Hudson County Extension (exits 14A-B-C) and the 1969 dual/dual widening.  Look how small Newark Airport is in the top right.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-WaC7klevMFA/UQslbVY-ilI/AAAAAAAAAEg/N8XN2CZEUv8/s640/exit%252014.jpg)

The funky 1956 art deco style sign, northbound at exit 14 before the 1969 widening.  I think two similar signs still exist on the extension (at the entry points at 14A and 14B); the famous one near exit 6 southbound was taken down last year in the current widening.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-J7QPsHvoWRk/UQsmW4CL4iI/AAAAAAAAAE0/bvWH8Ghz8sI/s640/exit%252014abc%2520sign.jpg)

To be continued...

Absolutely priceless!  And I stand corrected on those variable-message signs. I remember first seeing them maybe 1976, and wrongly assumed they were part of the 1969 project. Dig the button-copy on those BGS's! Always liked those German Autobahn style long arrows on the inside of the sign face too, which are not the usual American configuration.

"TURNPIKE DIVIDES 1 MILE AHEAD"

I find that part interesting because I always saw that language being used to advise of the split between "Cars Only" and "Cars-Trucks-Buses" whereas I recall the advance flip signs for the two spurs saying "ROAD DIVIDES" for many years.

I *think* the Art Deco Style sign still exists on the PA Turnpike Extension EB just before the North/South mainline, which can be seen from I-295.  On my way home today I'll try to take a glance to see if it's still there.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 01, 2013, 02:58:48 PM
I *think* the Art Deco Style sign still exists on the PA Turnpike Extension EB just before the North/South mainline, which can be seen from I-295.  On my way home today I'll try to take a glance to see if it's still there.

The? There were two of them.

Still there as of a couple weeks ago but their days are obviously numbered.

Quote from: Steve D on January 31, 2013, 09:32:52 PM
Part 2...

The signs for the northbound Western Spur split are unveiled for the Western Spur opening in January 1970.  These signs were quickly replaced by drum-style VMS signs around 1973 and then again around 2005.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-djIILrxLJsA/UQseqA4pawI/AAAAAAAAADs/V5sCiLM54vk/s640/split%2520sign%25202.jpg)

Another set of signs for the northbound split for the Western Spur, a mile south of the previous.  Again, no drum-style VMS in 1970.  The top sign said TURNPIKE DIVIDES 1 MILE AHEAD (black on yellow).
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-XsOgJPstPso/UQnJmpjPRfI/AAAAAAAAADE/Ye1XG3WiNLQ/s640/split%2520sign.jpg)

I find it curious that, on the "1 mile" set of OH signs, the "E" exits and destinations are on the left, with a "Keep Left" designation, and the "W" exits and designations are on the right, with a "Keep Right" designation.

When you then look at the second set of OH signs apporoaching the split, the exit numbers and destinations are reversed (i.e. "W" is now left side and "E" is now right side).

I wonder if the "near" set of signs (second photo from top) is actually at an entrance ramp "split" upon leaving a toll plaza, as opposed to the Turnpike mainline itself.

 One set of signs was on the "car lanes" and the other was on the "truck lanes". Looking at it on Google Earth, you can see that in the car lanes the "E" exits are to the left and the "W" exits are to the right. On the truck lanes its the opposite.

Maybe somebody can help me out here with the more recent construction. When did they built that third set of lanes each way north from Exit-14 to the "mixing bowl" just before Exit-15? I only noticed them last year when I drove the Turnpike. Don't remember them before that, though I do remember some construction in that area a couple of years before.

Quote from: SignBridge on February 01, 2013, 08:35:53 PM
One set of signs was on the "car lanes" and the other was on the "truck lanes". Looking at it on Google Earth, you can see that in the car lanes the "E" exits are to the left and the "W" exits are to the right. On the truck lanes its the opposite.

Maybe somebody can help me out here with the more recent construction. When did they built that third set of lanes each way north from Exit-14 to the "mixing bowl" just before Exit-15? I only noticed them last year when I drove the Turnpike. Don't remember them before that, though I do remember some construction in that area a couple of years before.

They're somewhat older than that. Check www.historicaerials.com and you can narrow it down.

1995 aerial shows them under construction.

Which is interesting. I thought I remembered the SB exit 14 being at the interchange rather than before the spurs merged, and I remember you had to take the cars/trucks/buses lanes to get to it. This tripped me up one time years back (I assume shortly after the extra roadways opened) when I was giving my father directions from the passenger seat - we ended up missing the exit, taking exit 13A instead, and asking the toll collector how to get back to I-78. After this happened I convinced myself I had simply misremembered where the exit was. Turns out I was right all along, it was that way before, and I remembered correctly! Hah!

I'm sure you're not the first or the last people to ask that question at Exit-13A. I've been interested in this stuff since I was a little kid in the 1950's and even I'm getting dizzy looking at all these lanes and parallel roadways on Google Earth. LOL Highways are finally getting too complicated even for me! Funny, when I was a teenager in the 1960's I didn't have this problem with the then new expanded Geo. Washington Br. complex interchanges. Spent hours diagramming them instead of doing my homework.....

Quote from: Steve on February 01, 2013, 06:47:13 PM

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 01, 2013, 02:58:48 PM
I *think* the Art Deco Style sign still exists on the PA Turnpike Extension EB just before the North/South mainline, which can be seen from I-295.  On my way home today I'll try to take a glance to see if it's still there.

The? There were two of them.

You're right...I often forget about the one closest to the interchange.  The one I was thinking of is easily visible when on 295, passing over the Turnpike's PA extension.

And yes, it's still there.

Art Deco? I don't think so. This is Googie style.

You know one thing if you look at the way the road is signed, you can get a glimpse of what was originally signed and figure out the history of the how the Turnpike was originally signed.

For example the SB Eastern Spur has no information  on Exit 15E guide signs about Newark- Jersey City or even US 1 & 9 or US 1 & 9 Truck.  The guide signs just reveal exit number only.  That is because growing up in the Garden State we New Jerseyans would use the exit numbers on both the Turnpike and Parkway very much over the names and road names as reference points in directions on these roads.  The Turnpike, being a closed ticket system, has the information on the tickets anyway.

Of course, now the NJTA will not modernize or should I say standardize the signage as there are far too many other road projects to compete with for funding.  As to go cheap, the elevated structure leading to Exit 15E makes it impossible to add small lgses and the light poles will not allow for a larger than traffic control device to be installed either.  The argument about people knowing Exit 15E all too well is played on me when I wrote to the NJTA about it was explained and that no one has ever complained about it.

Anyway, for years I often remember the sign bridge east of the Exit 14 plaza that was built the same way as the Exit 6 overhead, but having external button copy panels over the backlit built in ones that Exit 6 (and the Newark Bay Extension) had.  Then seeing an old Michael Summa photo submitted to a road geek site, I seen that originally it was a sign assembly with backlit signage.  The panels were added when I-78 and I-95 came into existence as a way to replace the signage without having to replace the entire structure.  Now of course, it has been replaced.

You can easily tell what was a copy of what was before it, by the way information is written.  If the exit number appears at the bottom of the sign, its either the original or a replacement due to age, accident, etc.   The original way the NJT was signed was exit number only at 2 miles with the distance to the next exit after that, at one mile was the route number (if it had one) with the control cities, and exit number below with the bottom border extended at the number itself, at one half mile a sign with route number and control points was signed lacking exit number and 1/2 mile, and at exit were exit number only!  At the start of the deceleration lane was a "EXIT X" with a curved arrow (same as the overhead at exit guide used now) and a "KEEP RIGHT" panel below it and a gore exit sign that was the same shape as the Garden State Parkway's entrance ramp signs with the right side of the sign slanted with the arrow.

I believe the NJTA was trying to force people to learn the exit numbers and implement the way people were thinking at the time to use them in standard talk, hence the larger than normal exit numbers and the more frequent use of them over the road name or cities. 

Roadman65, you have a good memory for this stuff. Your description of the original NJT signing matches my own memories exactly.

Quote from: roadman65 on February 02, 2013, 11:47:11 AM
I believe the NJTA was trying to force people to learn the exit numbers and implement the way people were thinking at the time to use them in standard talk, hence the larger than normal exit numbers and the more frequent use of them over the road name or cities. 

Well, they succeeded in a way no one else did.  Nowhere else in the country are exit numbers so pervasive.  In NY most people don't even pay attention to them.  NY could convert to distance-based numbers tomorrow and nobody would notice (maybe I should point that out... there's no reason they would need to spend extra money on conversion since nobody uses the numbers except us roadgeeks, so they could replace signs on the normal schedule).  Conversion on the Turnpike will likely be painful.

You know its a shame, once the 6-9 widening is completed the last of the original will be gone.   Currently the NB Exit 6 signs are duplicates of the original signing hence the lack of overhead signs there.  SB you had the classic art decco overhead that was left there as long as it did.  It was always there and someone felt that the sign was still doing its job, it can stay.  I do not know exactly why the NB Exit 6 signs were never modernized over the years, and it was the only Turnpike interchange to not have overheads to this day.

Now, it has to go because of the new interchange configuration.  It is a shame, as it was part of history.  You think that a duplicate one would be made for the new outer roadway and keep some of the nostalgia.  I also believe that the Exit 2 plaza is the only original NJT toll booths left unless 3,4, and 5 are still of the original.  I always liked the classic design with the slanted roof and wide lanes.  Maybe that is where Wawa Food Stores got the idea for their gas pump overhang?

The northbound Exit 6 signs were changed in about 2002 when the U.S. 130 interchange on the Pa Extension was reconstructed, though they were not placed overhead.  I think originally they only said "Pennsylvania Turnpike" on them.

The widening in this area does not leave enough room in the median between inner and outer for the guide signs to be ground-mounted.

Quote from: akotchi on February 02, 2013, 06:35:24 PM
The northbound Exit 6 signs were changed in about 2002 when the U.S. 130 interchange on the Pa Extension was reconstructed, though they were not placed overhead.  I think originally they only said "Pennsylvania Turnpike" on them.

The widening in this area does not leave enough room in the median between inner and outer for the guide signs to be ground-mounted.

There was even one that said Exit 6 FOR Pennsylvania Turnpike as one of them.  I believe that was a  failed trend that ended up being only used on the Turnpike.  Now, the NJTA is using  the exit number at the bottom of auxillary signs along with "USE" as the Exit 11 SB auxilllary for the The Amboys and Shore Points are now used as well as Rutgers at Exit 9 is now without for or use and the exit number below the university name.

Thanks SignBridge for the clarification.

There was a 1977 movie called Heroes starring Henry Winkler and Sally Field and in the flim was a shot of a PA turnpike exit sign of the NJ Turnpike, all I can remember was that it was a non overhead roadside mounted sign.

Quote

Now, it has to go because of the new interchange configuration.  It is a shame, as it was part of history.  You think that a duplicate one would be made for the new outer roadway and keep some of the nostalgia.  I also believe that the Exit 2 plaza is the only original NJT toll booths left unless 3,4, and 5 are still of the original.  I always liked the classic design with the slanted roof and wide lanes.  Maybe that is where Wawa Food Stores got the idea for their gas pump overhang?

The original toll plazas at 2, 3, 4 & 5 all still exist, although all are modified. 2 & 5 received an additional lane when EZ Pass came about, so there would be 2 lanes for both entering & exiting traffic. 3 & 4 have been widened over the years.

I want to say some of the plazas up north (ie: 9) have their original structures in use as well.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 03, 2013, 03:30:58 AM

Quote

Now, it has to go because of the new interchange configuration.  It is a shame, as it was part of history.  You think that a duplicate one would be made for the new outer roadway and keep some of the nostalgia.  I also believe that the Exit 2 plaza is the only original NJT toll booths left unless 3,4, and 5 are still of the original.  I always liked the classic design with the slanted roof and wide lanes.  Maybe that is where Wawa Food Stores got the idea for their gas pump overhang?

The original toll plazas at 2, 3, 4 & 5 all still exist, although all are modified. 2 & 5 received an additional lane when EZ Pass came about, so there would be 2 lanes for both entering & exiting traffic. 3 & 4 have been widened over the years.

I want to say some of the plazas up north (ie: 9) have their original structures in use as well.

With 8 just moved over, here are the remaining interchanges with original structures:
8A (although a newer interchange to begin with, so it only half counts)
13A (same, a newer interchange)
15E (albeit widened over the years)
15W (a newer interchange)
15X (brand new)
16W (also newer)

Quote from: Steve on February 03, 2013, 07:55:09 AM

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 03, 2013, 03:30:58 AM

Quote

Now, it has to go because of the new interchange configuration.  It is a shame, as it was part of history.  You think that a duplicate one would be made for the new outer roadway and keep some of the nostalgia.  I also believe that the Exit 2 plaza is the only original NJT toll booths left unless 3,4, and 5 are still of the original.  I always liked the classic design with the slanted roof and wide lanes.  Maybe that is where Wawa Food Stores got the idea for their gas pump overhang?

The original toll plazas at 2, 3, 4 & 5 all still exist, although all are modified. 2 & 5 received an additional lane when EZ Pass came about, so there would be 2 lanes for both entering & exiting traffic. 3 & 4 have been widened over the years.

I want to say some of the plazas up north (ie: 9) have their original structures in use as well.

With 8 just moved over, here are the remaining interchanges with original structures:
8A (although a newer interchange to begin with, so it only half counts)
13A (same, a newer interchange)
15E (albeit widened over the years)
15W (a newer interchange)
15X (brand new)
16W (also newer)

15E was originally the old slanted roof type and was re-built from scratch in phases during the 1966-1970 Western Spur widening.
Exit 9 same; re-built from scratch during the 1971-74 widening.  I will post a picture of that in-progress toll booth transition in the next batch following today's pictures.

Part 3....

This is one of the Turnpike "holy grail" pictures, showing both maybe the only the evidence of the small dual/dual section near the original exit 13 and one of the first overhead signs (pre-dating the funky 1956 art deco signs).  This original dual/dual section had two lanes for express and two lanes for local from 1951 until 1965 when the new interchange 13 opened.  The original exit 13 was located about one mile north of the current, consisting of a loop design similar to that of the original exit 14 I posted.  It had a small toll booth and exited directly to Trenton Avenue (today a warehouse sits on the site).  The new exit 13 opened in 1965, four years prior to the truck/bus lane opening.  However, while the truck/bus project actually started one year later in 1966, exit 13 opened in 1965 with stubs and widened bridges for the future lanes (I think the truck/bus lane concept was approved in 1963).  I've seen a few photos of the stubs but unfortunately do not have them.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-IH7gihW16yA/UQ3WA-_b-dI/AAAAAAAAAFM/XYG-uv8OcxE/s640/exit%252013.jpg)

Another rarity - maybe the only photo of exit 12 in its short lived configuration between 1962 and 1969.  This revised design replaced the half-diamond interchange (northbound entry/southbound exit).  I've seen photos of that half diamond and am trying to track down.  Interesting that those two movements seem available in the picture below while they are still building the missing movements.  For the 1969 widening the main bridge below was expanded westward (not re-built; you can see evidence today that there are two different sections/styles), ramps added, and the trumpet reversed. (North is to the right)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-229OGeH8ftI/UQ3djoJC5BI/AAAAAAAAAGE/l0C20q46tuQ/s640/exit%252012%2520-%2520new%25202.jpg)

Exit 11 during re-building in 1968.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-rLYb2QKAkvM/UQ3hY3Y9YcI/AAAAAAAAAHI/VXbACMYCsdg/s640/exit%252011.jpg)

Approaching exit 11 northbound.  Note the original sign style, with the exit number in a hump at the bottom.  Also, only two lanes and no median.  Isn't it also interesting that both overpasses above were built with enough room to almost double capacity in the future?  Also, is it ironic that at the one point the Turnpike crosses the Parkway a third road just happens to cross on top?
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-m_A4z4q0440/UQ3gSgUbl8I/AAAAAAAAAG0/GOODvktRu6g/s640/exit%252011.jpg)

To be continued....

Like the way the Turnpike looked while crossing under the Parkway and Main Street using pretty much the same bridges above.  They were smart in doing that so that expansions on both Toll Roads could be accomodated down the road.  It is also so neat to actually see the Parkway overpass in its original state before the Exit 129 ramps were added to make the structure wider and more modern looking as today.

Quote from: Steve D on February 03, 2013, 10:45:03 AM
Part 3....

This is one of the Turnpike "holy grail" pictures, showing both maybe the only the evidence of the small dual/dual section near the original exit 13 and one of the first overhead signs (pre-dating the funky 1956 art deco signs).  This original dual/dual section had two lanes for express and two lanes for local from 1951 until 1965 when the new interchange 13 opened.

I have scans from a 1955 Turnpike informational brochure that has an overhead photo of this early dual-dual configuration in Elizabeth. It also includes the double decker photo you posted with the caption "Unusual Tri-level Construction in the Woodbridge area"

Quote from: NJRoadfan on February 03, 2013, 01:13:50 PM

Quote from: Steve D on February 03, 2013, 10:45:03 AM
Part 3....

This is one of the Turnpike "holy grail" pictures, showing both maybe the only the evidence of the small dual/dual section near the original exit 13 and one of the first overhead signs (pre-dating the funky 1956 art deco signs).  This original dual/dual section had two lanes for express and two lanes for local from 1951 until 1965 when the new interchange 13 opened.

I have scans from a 1955 Turnpike informational brochure that has an overhead photo of this early dual-dual configuration in Elizabeth. It also includes the double decker photo you posted with the caption "Unusual Tri-level Construction in the Woodbridge area"

Cool!  Many of these photos come from old Turnpike documents that I've borrowed or collected.

Quote from: Steve D on February 03, 2013, 10:45:03 AM
Part 3....

This is one of the Turnpike "holy grail" pictures, showing both maybe the only the evidence of the small dual/dual section near the original exit 13 and one of the first overhead signs (pre-dating the funky 1956 art deco signs).  This original dual/dual section had two lanes for express and two lanes for local from 1951 until 1965 when the new interchange 13 opened.  The original exit 13 was located about one mile north of the current, consisting of a loop design similar to that of the original exit 14 I posted.  It had a small toll booth and exited directly to Trenton Avenue (today a warehouse sits on the site).  The new exit 13 opened in 1965, four years prior to the truck/bus lane opening.  However, while the truck/bus project actually started one year later in 1966, exit 13 opened in 1965 with stubs and widened bridges for the future lanes (I think the truck/bus lane concept was approved in 1963).  I've seen a few photos of the stubs but unfortunately do not have them.

Correction - the new exit 13 opened in phases beginning in 1966, not 1965

It would be interesting to know why the original SB lanes crossed over US 9 while its original NB counterpart passed under US 9?  That explains why today the SB Truck Lanes pass over US 9 on an original 1954 bridge while the other 3 carriageways pass beneath it on a newer type of bridge.

I saw the original Exit 11 configuration and it was a simple trumpet to trumpet interchange, so it seems unclear why the two different level gradings at that location.  In fact the maintenance yard just north of the US 9 crossing on the right side going toward Newark is the old Exit 11 toll plaza area and you can see how the old set up was looking on aerial views or even on that one site that shows historic air photos from the 1950's with the working set up of the time.

SteveD, you are quite the NJT historian! I never knew 'til now about the original dual/dual lanes at Exit-13. Didn't often travel that far south as a kid unfortunately. I thought it all began when the western leg was built. So NJT's express/local concept even predates I-80, which I thought was the first in NJ. Actually, I should have remembered that configuration existed on U.S. 1-9 through Newark even before the Turnpike or I-80.

And you must have read my mind re: the 15E toll-plaza. I thought it was a completely new one, not an expansion of the original 'cause it no longer had the wide spacing between the booths.

And re: the wide space under the orignal GS Parkway overpass, the original Turnpike designers must have been people of real vision. They obviously anticipated that some years ahead, traffic volumes would increase and expansion would be needed. How smart they were to plan for it. Unlike the way most highways are built where it's thought they would be adequate for 50 years only to have the volume greatly exceed projections from day one.

Quote from: SignBridge on February 03, 2013, 08:15:52 PM
SteveD, you are quite the NJT historian! I never knew 'til now about the original dual/dual lanes at Exit-13. Didn't often travel that far south as a kid unfortunately. I thought it all began when the western leg was built. So NJT's express/local concept even predates I-80, which I thought was the first in NJ. Actually, I should have remembered that configuration existed on U.S. 1-9 through Newark even before the Turnpike or I-80.

And you must have read my mind re: the 15E toll-plaza. I thought it was a completely new one, not an expansion of the original 'cause it no longer had the wide spacing between the booths.

And re: the wide space under the orignal GS Parkway overpass, the original Turnpike designers must have been people of real vision. They obviously anticipated that some years ahead, traffic volumes would increase and expansion would be needed. How smart they were to plan for it. Unlike the way most highways are built where it's thought they would be adequate for 50 years only to have the volume greatly exceed projections from day one.

Even the bridge carrying the SB Truck/ Bus Lanes over US 9 is made for the current three lanes plus shoulder, that was originally two lanes.
That and the fact that all the stone overpasses on the GSP between the NJT and US 22 were able to accomdate extra travel lanes added over time, as prior to 1980 the GSP was six lanes. Only was the viaduct over NJ 28, The former CNJ (present Raritan Valley Line), South Avenue, Conrail Shared Assets, and the SIRT Line in Cranford widened in 80 to allow for expansion.  Even across Walnut Avenue in Clark, or Lake Avenue in Colonia it had three lanes crossing it that now has five.  Only the Inman Avenue and New Dover Road required the grade of the GSP to be dropped so the end lanes could have overheight vehicles under the arches before the fifth lane was added to have the low clearance signs for the right lane.

Also, the Raritan River Bridge was mad with extra piers when it was first constructed to allow for expansion as well.  Even look at the wide median between the Raritan and Asbury Park Toll Plazas.  The dual configuration was added in the early 70's, so that median had to be much wider without the express lanes.  The median there is still so wide as it is.  Basically the engineers of both highways saw potential for near growth.  Only in Irvington and East Orange did they not allow for extra ROW as it was urban and I imagine that land was hard to come by just to get the Parkway though Irvington and The Oranges as it was.  The lanes through 143 to 145 were narrowed to 10 feet each from their original 12 feet plus shoulders.

Like you said too many road agencies do not think for the long term and how many major projects have taken place do to the lack of early planning.

Quote from: SignBridge on February 03, 2013, 08:15:52 PM
And re: the wide space under the orignal GS Parkway overpass, the original Turnpike designers must have been people of real vision. They obviously anticipated that some years ahead, traffic volumes would increase and expansion would be needed. How smart they were to plan for it. Unlike the way most highways are built where it's thought they would be adequate for 50 years only to have the volume greatly exceed projections from day one.

What I find notable is that the majority of the mainline was built with a 10' or so grassy median w/ guard rail in the middle. (This has been since converted to a paved left shoulder with jersey barrier)  However, the original configuration near Exit 11 provided for an unusually wide median.  It's as if there was a secret design of a dual-dual highway that was never revealed until it was needed.

Likewise, much of the Thruway was built to allow for three lanes each way.

I wonder if the over-planning may have been inspired by the George Washington Bridge, knowing the 2nd deck would eventually be built.  The bridge was built strong enough to support the 2nd deck when needed, so maybe they already anticipated the extra traffic on the Turnpike down the road as well.

jeffandnicole, one point of information. All the Turnpike photos I've seen from the early 1950's show the 10 foot median without a guide rail. I don't know what year they started building them, but apparently the rails came later. And the current concrete wall is not your standard Jersey barrier either. According to the Turnpike Authority, it is 42-inches high vs. the standard 32-inch wall. And they claim theirs will stop the biggest trucks too. Possibly it's also wider than the standard wall.

Quote from: SignBridge on February 04, 2013, 04:49:10 PM
jeffandnicole, one point of information. All the Turnpike photos I've seen from the early 1950's show the 10 foot median without a guide rail. I don't know what year they started building them, but apparently the rails came later. And the current concrete wall is not your standard Jersey barrier either. According to the Turnpike Authority, it is 42-inches high vs. the standard 32-inch wall. And they claim theirs will stop the biggest trucks too. Possibly it's also wider than the standard wall.

It's still 2 feet wide. The 42" vs. 32" is not a new development by any means - it's almost the new standard at this point for any roadway with a meaningful truck percentage. Some agencies like PA Tpk. like to go even higher than that, but you'll definitely find plenty of 42" barrier around the country in the Jersey shape.

Part 4....

The new exit 10 near completion in 1969.  Note that there is no ramp from the future inner/cars only lane to the toll.  With the start of the truck/bus lanes just a few hundred feet south of this picture, I guess they figured it was not worth the cost.  When the truck/bus lanes were expanded to exit 9 and then 8a this was not repeated and both roads had an exit ramp (same with exit 6 under construction now just north of the new diverge.  In addition, exit 6 traffic entering south will have ramps to both roadways - the first time this has been done just prior to the merging of the two roads).
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-jwCTI-T03b4/URBhdNQvIQI/AAAAAAAAAHo/e_nvFiUbQi0/s640/exit%252010.jpg)

The original start of the truck/buses lanes at exit 10 in 1969.  As mentioned before, note on the sign that exit 10 can only be accessed from the outer roadway.  Of course the missing ramp to exit 10 was completed in 1974 when the dual/dual reached south to exit 9.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-sslz89PTT_A/URBhWT6PusI/AAAAAAAAAHg/FTt66NtYGbw/s640/exit%252010-2.jpg)

Exit 9 in the 1950's - two lanes and that very unusual exit sign!! Does anyone know when the tanks were removed?
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-26uVLw5Rht0/URBhszTxiiI/AAAAAAAAAH4/kvs1s9F1s6o/s640/exit%25209.jpg)

Exit 9 in the 1960's with more modern signs - the one at the exit looks like the GSP!
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-vM3DiowKHXc/URBhnQfxh6I/AAAAAAAAAHw/BygQgQJVOdQ/s640/exit%25209%2520approach.jpg)

Exit 9 reconstruction in 1973.  Unlike all of the other dual/dual projects/extensions (including the current), the one between exit 9 and 10 from 1971 to 1974 placed two new roadways on the east side of the existing Turnpike the whole length of the project, as opposed to adding an outer roadway on both sides.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-b4XVT8AOYDM/URBh4fF0cyI/AAAAAAAAAII/_VP0yGINmyQ/s640/exit%25209%2520reconstr.jpg)

More of the re-construction of Exit 9.  Notice the toll booth replacement and transition.  This project involved a complex sequencing of ramps and detours.  For example, Turnpike traffic was first moved to the new roadways (not complete in this picture) behind the original trumpet.  Exit traffic had to use the bridge under construction at the top which was built half way and then detoured under the existing mainline  bridge using a sharp S curve (I actually remember this from when I was a kid!!!)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Mrc05rm7rrk/URBhy-8bzlI/AAAAAAAAAIA/C38Z4p8w_QI/s640/exit%25209%2520reconstr%25202.jpg)

To be continued...

I notice the 1969 photo of the split shows that they'd changed to upward-pointing arrows by then instead of the downward-pointing ones seen in earlier photos (and that most of us know so well from the late, lamented signs just north of Exit 6). When did they change their practice in that respect?

BTW, regarding the earlier post about the original short stretch of "express/local" near the original Exit 13, you can find an aerial view on historic-aerials.com if you're interested (though you can't see the signs themselves).

Does anyone remember that there was a traffic signal in the area leading to the Exit 9 toll plaza?  It may have controlled that side road which leads to the Turnpike Authority building.  In any event, whenever we went through there, the light was on flash mode; yellow for the Turnpike traffic and (presumably) red for the side street.  Granted, it was always either the weekend and/or evening.  Sometime in 1974, probably after the widening was completed, the traffic lights were removed.

I remember how when they were widening the truck lanes to Exit 9, when the new northbound "THRU TRAFFIC" signs were first put up, for some reason they both read "Next Exit     Miles".   The space where the number belongs was blank for what seemed like a long time.  As a child I concluded that it was a puzzle; since it was Exit 9, putting another 9 in there (nine miles to Exit 8A) was considered unnecessary.

Another story:  every time we drove between Exits 9 and 10, we always pointed out "my tree" on the east side of the turnpike.  This was a well-formed pine tree (or other conifer) whose thick, rigid, horizontal branches boldly stood out against the ordinary greenery in the area.  Boy, were we disappointed when we found that the tree had been removed to make way for the new roadway.

Quote from: Steve D on February 04, 2013, 09:04:49 PM
Exit 9 in the 1950's - two lanes and that very unusual exit sign!! Does anyone know when the tanks were removed?
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-26uVLw5Rht0/URBhszTxiiI/AAAAAAAAAH4/kvs1s9F1s6o/s640/exit%25209.jpg)

Interesting - I noticed this half used bridge on the NJ TPK north of Exit 9: http://goo.gl/maps/ZYz7J

So I did a query on Historic Aerials:
a. The 2x2 + grass median was present in 1953
b. Widened to 3x3 by 1957. It looks like a grass median was still present.
c. A median barrier was installed by 1963.
d. Widening by 1972.
e. Widening to 3x3x3x3 by 1979 (http://www.historicaerials.com/aerials.php?scale=7.31320395395791E-6&lat=40.4790615834767&lon=-74.4051460171411&year=1979). The original 2x2 & 3x3 SB/NB bridge for the duration of ~1953-~1972 was chopped in half. (Resulting in this: http://goo.gl/maps/ijjsb)

The tanks were removed some time in the early or mid 90s, since I remember as a kid wondering in the back seat on the way to Brooklyn how the oil stayed in the latticework (heh).

A point of clarification from above . . . there will be only one southbound entrance ramp at Exit 6, to the outer roadway.

Quote from: Steve D on January 31, 2013, 09:32:52 PM


The funky 1956 art deco style sign, northbound at exit 14 before the 1969 widening.  I think two similar signs still exist on the extension (at the entry points at 14A and 14B); the famous one near exit 6 southbound was taken down last year in the current widening.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-J7QPsHvoWRk/UQsmW4CL4iI/AAAAAAAAAE0/bvWH8Ghz8sI/s640/exit%252014abc%2520sign.jpg)

There should be something missing in the exit 14 pictures the Newark airport and US-1 &22 being replaced by I-78 express/local in 1977 when I-78 exit 48-58 was opened

Re: the lack of shoulders. In the mid-1960's the Authority installed call-box phones in both directions, at closely spaced intervals on the Passaic and Hackensack River Bridges. I assume they lasted until the widening and shoulders.

I must say, looking back over these old pictures, I'm feeling increasingly sad about the MUTCD-ification of the Turnpike.  Uniformity and standards, blah blah, the Turnpike and all of its unique elements speak to me as a born and bred New Jerseyan.  I'm going to miss those old quirks, but can take heart at least that they're photographically preserved by so many of you fine people :) .

Quote from: akotchi on February 05, 2013, 06:45:16 PM
A point of clarification from above . . . there will be only one southbound entrance ramp at Exit 6, to the outer roadway.

According to the plans I have (see below) there were two ramps planned - has this changed?

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ktZQmMHssSc/URJgHzYTexI/AAAAAAAAAJY/0lhCeh7IJpg/s800/Untitled.jpg)

Quote from: Steve D on February 06, 2013, 08:54:33 AM

Quote from: akotchi on February 05, 2013, 06:45:16 PM
A point of clarification from above . . . there will be only one southbound entrance ramp at Exit 6, to the outer roadway.

According to the plans I have (see below) there were two ramps planned - has this changed?

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ktZQmMHssSc/URJgHzYTexI/AAAAAAAAAJY/0lhCeh7IJpg/s800/Untitled.jpg)

Unless there's been a design change, there should be both an inner and outer ramp.

Next time I'm thru there, I'll take a look at the bridge columns to see if one is getting installed for the inner lanes.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 06, 2013, 09:00:52 AM

Quote from: Steve D on February 06, 2013, 08:54:33 AM

Quote from: akotchi on February 05, 2013, 06:45:16 PM
A point of clarification from above . . . there will be only one southbound entrance ramp at Exit 6, to the outer roadway.

According to the plans I have (see below) there were two ramps planned - has this changed?

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ktZQmMHssSc/URJgHzYTexI/AAAAAAAAAJY/0lhCeh7IJpg/s800/Untitled.jpg)

Unless there's been a design change, there should be both an inner and outer ramp.

Next time I'm thru there, I'll take a look at the bridge columns to see if one is getting installed for the inner lanes.

As a member of the design team for that interchange, I can tell you that there will be only one ramp, going to the outer roadway.  What you posted was probably part of a concept report, or some early design concept (I have seen it before, but don't remember where it came from), but the inner ramp was removed prior to our involvement.  Cost savings and low traffic volume were two factors I recall in its elimination.

Quote from: akotchi on February 06, 2013, 10:24:55 AM

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 06, 2013, 09:00:52 AM

Quote from: Steve D on February 06, 2013, 08:54:33 AM

Quote from: akotchi on February 05, 2013, 06:45:16 PM
A point of clarification from above . . . there will be only one southbound entrance ramp at Exit 6, to the outer roadway.

According to the plans I have (see below) there were two ramps planned - has this changed?

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ktZQmMHssSc/URJgHzYTexI/AAAAAAAAAJY/0lhCeh7IJpg/s800/Untitled.jpg)

Unless there's been a design change, there should be both an inner and outer ramp.

Next time I'm thru there, I'll take a look at the bridge columns to see if one is getting installed for the inner lanes.

As a member of the design team for that interchange, I can tell you that there will be only one ramp, going to the outer roadway.  What you posted was probably part of a concept report, or some early design concept (I have seen it before, but don't remember where it came from), but the inner ramp was removed prior to our involvement.  Cost savings and low traffic volume were two factors I recall in its elimination.

Thanks for the clarification.  I was wondering why in the world they would need two ramps.  Can you tell us any other interesting facts about the current widening?

I'll bet it was preparation for a (distant?) future widening south of there?

Quote from: Roadsguy on February 06, 2013, 12:57:14 PM
I'll bet it was preparation for a (distant?) future widening south of there?

When I saw the diagram above I thought to myself that it would make sense to build the ramp, even if they don't need it immediately, because it would be one less thing to build later (at greater cost) if they ever extend the separated roadways further south. They didn't build a ramp to the inner roadway at Exit 8A for the same reason that the configuration ended just south of there, but I assume now they've had to add one as part of the current project.

On the other hand, though, the odds of them doing another widening of this scale south of Exit 6 (not counting the three-laning between Exit 4 and the southern terminus) seem quite low, so it'd probably be overkill to build something they expect never to use.

"akotchi," totally separate question for you–will the old-style signs on the eastbound extension remain? I know the one on the southbound carriageway is gone, of course. (Apologies if they're already gone. I've seldom had reason to use the Pennsylvania Extension eastbound and haven't been on the Turnpike at all, except from Exit 14 to Exit 14A, since the widening project began.)

Quote from: akotchi on February 06, 2013, 10:24:55 AM
As a member of the design team for that interchange, I can tell you that there will be only one ramp, going to the outer roadway.  What you posted was probably part of a concept report, or some early design concept (I have seen it before, but don't remember where it came from), but the inner ramp was removed prior to our involvement.  Cost savings and low traffic volume were two factors I recall in its elimination.

FWIW, it was in the NJ Turnpike's public presentation in late 2008.  It can be seen on page 8 of the linked document, which is currently on the NJ Turnpike website created for this project (http://www.njturnpikewidening.com/documents/Program%20Widening%20Presentation.pdf ).

Quote from: 1995hoo on February 06, 2013, 01:16:35 PM

Quote from: Roadsguy on February 06, 2013, 12:57:14 PM
I'll bet it was preparation for a (distant?) future widening south of there?

When I saw the diagram above I thought to myself that it would make sense to build the ramp, even if they don't need it immediately, because it would be one less thing to build later (at greater cost) if they ever extend the separated roadways further south. They didn't build a ramp to the inner roadway at Exit 8A for the same reason that the configuration ended just south of there, but I assume now they've had to add one as part of the current project.

On the other hand, though, the odds of them doing another widening of this scale south of Exit 6 (not counting the three-laning between Exit 4 and the southern terminus) seem quite low, so it'd probably be overkill to build something they expect never to use.

"akotchi," totally separate question for you–will the old-style signs on the eastbound extension remain? I know the one on the southbound carriageway is gone, of course. (Apologies if they're already gone. I've seldom had reason to use the Pennsylvania Extension eastbound and haven't been on the Turnpike at all, except from Exit 14 to Exit 14A, since the widening project began.)

To my knowledge, the signs are still there, but they will eventually be removed.  The locations of the structures and messages of the panels are not compatible with what is proposed to replace them, which includes, among other things, both (future) I-95 designation and the car-truck split for the northbound ramp.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 06, 2013, 01:45:03 PM

Quote from: akotchi on February 06, 2013, 10:24:55 AM
As a member of the design team for that interchange, I can tell you that there will be only one ramp, going to the outer roadway.  What you posted was probably part of a concept report, or some early design concept (I have seen it before, but don't remember where it came from), but the inner ramp was removed prior to our involvement.  Cost savings and low traffic volume were two factors I recall in its elimination.

FWIW, it was in the NJ Turnpike's public presentation in late 2008.  It can be seen on page 8 of the linked document, which is currently on the NJ Turnpike website created for this project (http://www.njturnpikewidening.com/documents/Program%20Widening%20Presentation.pdf ).

Now I remember . . . I saw many slides of these maps in the numerous professional society dinner presentations on this topic I attended in that time frame.  If I had dug hard enough, I probably could have found it.  Thanks for the reference, though.

Part 5....

A series of signs were erected in the median in the early 1960s to keep drivers awake.  They were posted on the (then) two longest stretches between interchanges, exits 8/9 and 2/3.  The series of signs said something like "KEEP AWAKE...TAKE A BREAK...NEXT SERVICE AREA X MILES".  They lasted until the mid 1970s.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-qrR4dxqAq1w/URLWB-kDl9I/AAAAAAAAAJo/gFYpixDmtdI/s640/keep%2520awake.jpg)

The original Turnpike VMS from the 1950s!
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-h1amKuyDt1w/URLWJBUc9lI/AAAAAAAAAJw/4Se6X4z0ryg/s800/original%2520vms.jpg)

...and the second generation of VMS from the 1960s ("DRIVE SLOW") with the original VMS in the inset.  The third generation VMS ("REDUCE SPEED") started appearing in the mid 1970s, with the full installation every two miles in 1983.  Today the fourth generation VMS (all color digital) is replacing them.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-T6fn1kehRjo/URLWPkQja4I/AAAAAAAAAJ4/pafI-bOPvqA/s640/vms1.jpg)

Signs galore...did people not know how to get to the shore in the 1950s?  Doesn't seem so important today.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-jyOz1RCttT8/URLWVLghrqI/AAAAAAAAAKA/HRZKO7qFaGk/s640/signs.jpg)

One more set to post....

Does anybody remember when they used to (or do they still) print the words "KEEP AWAKE" in large red letters on the toll tickets? I haven't seen one in many years since Easy Pass became the norm.

Quote from: Steve D on February 06, 2013, 05:31:12 PM
Part 5....

My favorite yet - I've never seen photos of previous generation VMS before! Thanks for expanding my knowledge base. Had to change a caption on my I-95 page.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alpsroads.net%2Froads%2Fnj%2Fi-95%2Fenred.jpg&hash=95abfebdf0529288d83a770ccbcffbb1b25ffea5) My favorite photo of the previous generation.

Quote from: SignBridge on February 06, 2013, 05:58:01 PM
Does anybody remember when they used to (or do they still) print the words "KEEP AWAKE" in large red letters on the toll tickets? I haven't seen one in many years since Easy Pass became the norm.

No, I don't remember that, but I do remember the KEEP AWAKE signs on the median of the Turnpike.  They flashed on and off and were kind of a back-lit lime green when illuminated.

Very cool from a roadgeeking perspective, but I don't know how effective they were.

Quote from: Steve D on January 30, 2013, 08:47:56 PM
The  LANE CLOSED AHEAD sign could be moved physically to indicate a lane closure long before the standard VMS.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-LwL1Re8fME8/UQnGWj3Ax-I/AAAAAAAAACY/alB4sOks-4I/s640/exit%252016-18.jpg)

How did this work? Did the sign slide back and forth? What happened when there were no lanes closed?

Quote from: Steve on February 06, 2013, 06:38:50 PM

Quote from: Steve D on February 06, 2013, 05:31:12 PM
Part 5....

My favorite yet - I've never seen photos of previous generation VMS before! Thanks for expanding my knowledge base. Had to change a caption on my I-95 page.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alpsroads.net%2Froads%2Fnj%2Fi-95%2Fenred.jpg&hash=95abfebdf0529288d83a770ccbcffbb1b25ffea5) My favorite photo of the previous generation.

When these signs started breaking down, they would produce all sorts of interesting messages.  I always enjoyed ones that would say "Speed - Construction Ahead" or the sort.

Closely looking at the ones south of Exit 9, many of the neon letters/numbers simply don't exist anymore.

I have some photos from the planned dual/dual widening of the Western Spur.

Background:  In 1985 the Turnpike announced three widening projects as part of what they called the 1985-90 Widening Program:

1)  Truck/bus lane extension from exit 9 to exit 8a
2)  Adding a fourth lane in the truck/bus roadway between exits 11 and 14
3)  Adding truck/bus lanes to the Western Spur between the "Northern Mixing Bowl" south of exit 15E and exit 18W.

The first two projects were completed by 1990 but the third was cancelled I think due to environmental issues.....Maybe someday?


Relocated exit 16W...this exit never seems to stay still; every few years the toll booths are expanded, the ramps to route 3 are re-configured, or the ramps to the Turnpike are altered.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-iNsAQJmIed4/URRI6sEYwVI/AAAAAAAAALE/NbkH_vuX5qE/s640/exit%252016w%25201985%2520plan.jpg)

Exit 15W plans...notice that the truck/bus lanes for the western spur would have crossed over the mainline (on presumably a very high bridge) to join the other three roads of the western spur.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-_JsT9TRgzc0/URRK6Dxo30I/AAAAAAAAALw/OVIRZbWBEwI/s640/exit%252015w%25201985%2520plans.jpg)

Exit 15E plans...notice those three loops from the toll plaza northbound...it would probably be difficult to provide good signage in such a short area with so many different exits and options (note that the truck/bus lanes for the western spur are actually on the outside of the mainline, which is on the outside of the cars only lane of the western spur.....)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ehsn-tq0pRw/URRIyU712BI/AAAAAAAAAK0/rSf4J-GSMCg/s640/exit%252015e%25201985%2520plan.jpg)

I also seem to remember a new exit - 15W-A - was proposed as part of this project but I could not find it in the plans.

That's all the photos I have for now - I hope you have enjoyed them!

Quote from: Scott5114 on February 07, 2013, 05:17:42 AM

Quote from: Steve D on January 30, 2013, 08:47:56 PM
The  LANE CLOSED AHEAD sign could be moved physically to indicate a lane closure long before the standard VMS.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-LwL1Re8fME8/UQnGWj3Ax-I/AAAAAAAAACY/alB4sOks-4I/s640/exit%252016-18.jpg)

How did this work? Did the sign slide back and forth? What happened when there were no lanes closed?

The "THIS LANE CLOSED" sign did slide back and forth.  When no lanes were closed it was covered with several panels.  I remember the one just after exit 15E northbound sat covered for many years, maybe until even the early 1980s, before it was taken down.

I remember those lane closed signs.  They even had signals beneath them to compliment the sign in the same effect NY bridges do when lanes are closed.

Also to build Truck lanes on the western spur was a plan, but if it ever did get done you would have had 12 lanes becoming 4 as north of 16W the Turnpike is only four lanes just like from 1-4 in South Jersey.  I do remember, also that NJ 17 would have had an exit as part of the 16W-15W master plan was to extend NJ 17 south to I-280 and have a connector road to the NJT.  Also, the defunct Berry's Creek project would have impacted the Turnpike's plans for improvement as it would have required some new changes to existing 16W as well.

Quote from: Steve on February 06, 2013, 06:38:50 PM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alpsroads.net%2Froads%2Fnj%2Fi-95%2Fenred.jpg&hash=95abfebdf0529288d83a770ccbcffbb1b25ffea5) My favorite photo of the previous generation.

I love these, and the older ones aren't so bad either. Although I'm really going to miss the current generation of VMS signs, I don't hate the new ones.

Quote from: roadman65 on February 07, 2013, 08:56:55 PM
I remember those lane closed signs.  They even had signals beneath them to compliment the sign in the same effect NY bridges do when lanes are closed.

Also to build Truck lanes on the western spur was a plan, but if it ever did get done you would have had 12 lanes becoming 4 as north of 16W the Turnpike is only four lanes just like from 1-4 in South Jersey.  I do remember, also that NJ 17 would have had an exit as part of the 16W-15W master plan was to extend NJ 17 south to I-280 and have a connector road to the NJT.  Also, the defunct Berry's Creek project would have impacted the Turnpike's plans for improvement as it would have required some new changes to existing 16W as well.

(emphasis is mine) I think that is what the Exit 16W-A plan was, though I thought Route 17 was to be extended only to a direct connection to the Turnpike (not to I-280 as well).
-----------------------------------
Regarding the plans a couple of posts above . . . what was the side roadway (parallel to Route 3) supposed to be at the relocated Exit 16W?

I wish they'd increase the turnpike to six lanes between the first Toll Plaza and the Pennsylvania Turnpike Extension. I still wish I could remember where I saw this old Howard Johnson's sign off in the woods somewhere between Exits 4 and 5.

Hey, did you know that Exit 15X and the Secaucus Junction along the Eastern Spur was the site where they filmed the second season opening theme from "That Girl?"
http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=88049

:biggrin:


Oh, I got my copy of "Images of America: The New Jersey Turnpike" today.
:happy:

That "Images of America" book about the Turnpike's history is excellent. Some of Steve's photos appear in the book also along with some pictures of 1950's and 60's Turnpike/State Police cars. 

On the relocated exit 16W diagram, what is being connected to the new stub to the west (up)

Quote from: ARMOURERERIC on February 08, 2013, 08:56:04 PM
On the relocated exit 16W diagram, what is being connected to the new stub to the west (up)

NJ-17.

Steve, re: the picture of the Exit-15W plan. Isn't it just as possible that the Western truck lanes could have passed under the mainline instead of going over it on a spectacularly high bridge? (Such a bridge might look something like the high, curving approach to the Holland Tunnel) I guess the question would be whether they could smoothly snake it between the existing bridge pillars without sharp curves.

Quote from: Steve D on February 06, 2013, 05:31:12 PM
Part 5....
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-qrR4dxqAq1w/URLWB-kDl9I/AAAAAAAAAJo/gFYpixDmtdI/s640/keep%2520awake.jpg)

Judging by the assembly and depth of the sign, was this sign internally lit???

Quote from: thenetwork on February 09, 2013, 10:26:27 AM

Quote from: Steve D on February 06, 2013, 05:31:12 PM
Part 5....
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-qrR4dxqAq1w/URLWB-kDl9I/AAAAAAAAAJo/gFYpixDmtdI/s640/keep%2520awake.jpg)

Judging by the assembly and depth of the sign, was this sign internally lit???

They absolutely were.  I recall them emitting a very cool near lime-green glow, blinking off and on quickly. 

Looked to me like some sort of florescent lighting was installed inside, but without the "lag" that one associates with them. 

Perhaps they did not "lag" because they were already warmed-up? 

Or maybe the lighting inside was made up of green neon tubes?

If you look carefully to the right of this image, you will (barely) see two more signs mounted further along on the median.  If memory serves me correctly, they all flashed "together," creating an impressive display. 

Quote from: NJRoadfan on February 08, 2013, 09:27:42 PM

Quote from: ARMOURERERIC on February 08, 2013, 08:56:04 PM
On the relocated exit 16W diagram, what is being connected to the new stub to the west (up)

NJ-17.

Had this been implemented, what do you think would have happened to the existing 17/3 interchange?

Quote from: ARMOURERERIC on February 09, 2013, 04:01:14 PM
Had this been implemented, what do you think would have happened to the existing 17/3 interchange?

Nothing. It was designed for such a realignment.

I see a stub!

Quote from: SignBridge on February 08, 2013, 09:42:08 PM
Steve, re: the picture of the Exit-15W plan. Isn't it just as possible that the Western truck lanes could have passed under the mainline instead of going over it on a spectacularly high bridge? (Such a bridge might look something like the high, curving approach to the Holland Tunnel) I guess the question would be whether they could smoothly snake it between the existing bridge pillars without sharp curves.

I don't think so.  The piers for the mainline (eastern roadway) are close together and perpendicular to the road.  At the angle they showed, it would require much more spacing and/or overhead support piers.  Also, the gradient for the eastern roadway over the Passaic River is already at the maximum allowed by the Turnpike, according to very old documents (this was discussed in one of the first Turnpike annual reports about the decision to go over or under the nearby Pulaski Skyway).  Therefore, a new bridge crossing the Passaic and then going under the Turnpike would need to be graded much more steeply down than the eastern roadway,  beyond the Turnpike's standards.

Quote from: Steve D on February 09, 2013, 08:05:34 PM

Quote from: SignBridge on February 08, 2013, 09:42:08 PM
Steve, re: the picture of the Exit-15W plan. Isn't it just as possible that the Western truck lanes could have passed under the mainline instead of going over it on a spectacularly high bridge? (Such a bridge might look something like the high, curving approach to the Holland Tunnel) I guess the question would be whether they could smoothly snake it between the existing bridge pillars without sharp curves.

I don't think so.  The piers for the mainline (eastern roadway) are close together and perpendicular to the road.  At the angle they showed, it would require much more spacing and/or overhead support piers.  Also, the gradient for the eastern roadway over the Passaic River is already at the maximum allowed by the Turnpike, according to very old documents (this was discussed in one of the first Turnpike annual reports about the decision to go over or under the nearby Pulaski Skyway).  Therefore, a new bridge crossing the Passaic and then going under the Turnpike would need to be graded much more steeply down than the eastern roadway,  beyond the Turnpike's standards.

Yeah, that is another thing about the truck lanes that were once proposed for the Western Spur.  The fact that there is that limited spacing between the Pulaski Skyway and the Passaic River makes it tough to get another span in there.  True they could build another one east of the Eastern Spur, and make the current Eastern Spur part of the widened Western Spur, but is there enough room between the Skyway and the river on that side to have an a proper grade from the elevation under the Skyway to the height needed to span the river?

Steve, after looking at photos of the the Passaic River Bridge I have to reluctantly agree with you. The pillars are too close together for what I suggested.

Roadman, your idea might fly. Re: your concern about another river span after going under the Skyway,  the Skyway gets higher as it goes east from the Turnpike. So another Turnpike bridge might not be a problem because it could be higher (as it goes under the Skyway) than the other two Turnpike bridges were, and should clear the river with no problem. If you have the Images of America book, see the photos on page-39 for a good view of how the Skyway descends going west while crossing over the Turnpike from its own Passaic River bridge.  This also explains why the Western Turnpike Leg is lower than the Eastern Leg as it goes under the Skyway.

About those "Keep Awake" signs... while the shape of the signs and the flashing, rings an eerie sense of deja-vu, I cannot recall ever seeing them.  But this puzzles me, because we drove the NJTP quite frequently from Exit 8 to 13 and back between 1970 and 1974.   And I used to notice everything on the turnpike route, sometimes driving other family members nuts by reading all the signs aloud.  (I was 3 when we moved to NJ.) Is it possible that the signs between Exits 8 and 9 were removed with the opening of Exit 8A, since it was now no longer such a long stretch (and might have distracted from the exit itself)?  We almost never went south of Exit 3, so I wouldn't have remembered the signs there, at least not consciously.

I did a quick Google search, and found this link to a South Amboy newspaper from 1959 announcing the installation.  Do a page search for "Signs To Keep Drivers Awake".  The signs apparently were to read:  "Keep Awake"  "For Safety"  "Rest Next"  "Service Area".  The paper is amusing for other reasons as well; there's a review for a new Marilyn Monroe movie titled "Some Like It Hot".  Not to mention all those quaint "exchange" phone numbers.

Edit: Here is the link: http://www.dowdell.org/citizen/1959/1959-07-30.pdf

The blinking signs were also mentioned in a poem by Allen Ginsberg titled "Bayonne Entering NYC".
http://njdh.scc-net.rutgers.edu/enj/lessons/suburban_nj/?part=poems

If, as was stated earlier in the thread, the "Keep Awake" signs did rhyme (in the Burma Shave tradition, perhaps), their heritage lives on in Maryland, where the advance signs for some of the rest areas have long contained a small panel on the bottom that reads "Stay Awake, Take a Break."

(Maryland seems to like poems. Work zone signs often say "We're improving to keep you moving." They also used to employ an annoying sequence of signs reading, in sequence, "Stay Alert"/"Stay Alive"/"Don't Exceed"/[standard "Speed Limit 55" sign].)

The Atlantic City Expressway still has signs like that in the sequence of "Stay Alert","Stay Awake","Stay Alive" with subtle hints to stop at their rest area. Each end of the highway has signs stating "Thank You For Driving Our Safe Road" too.

Mass also posts signs before rest areas (and parking areas) that say "TAKE A BREAK / STAY AWAKE / FOR SAFETY SAKE". 

Maine Turnpike has all sorts of safety reminders in the median such as "ARE YOUR TIRES SAFE?" and one may say "STAY ALERT".

The Dulles Access Road in Northern VA used to have some Burma-Shave signs, but not for a service plaza (it has none).  One set was to discourage drivers from "flip-flopping"; going to and from the airport is free, but going to intermediate exits from the Beltway is tolled.  People would sometimes drive to the airport and U-turn, illegally.  The signs read something like "This road here... is for airport users... don't risk a ticket... from our police cruisers"

Quote from: lepidopteran on February 10, 2013, 11:28:40 PM
The Dulles Access Road in Northern VA used to have some Burma-Shave signs, but not for a service plaza (it has none).  One set was to discourage drivers from "flip-flopping"; going to and from the airport is free, but going to intermediate exits from the Beltway is tolled.  People would sometimes drive to the airport and U-turn, illegally.  The signs read something like "This road here... is for airport users... don't risk a ticket... from our police cruisers"

And the MWAA Police Department does enforce the law against "back tracking" (as it is commonly called).

Quote from: cpzilliacus on February 10, 2013, 11:30:02 PM

Quote from: lepidopteran on February 10, 2013, 11:28:40 PM
The Dulles Access Road in Northern VA used to have some Burma-Shave signs, but not for a service plaza (it has none).  One set was to discourage drivers from "flip-flopping"; going to and from the airport is free, but going to intermediate exits from the Beltway is tolled.  People would sometimes drive to the airport and U-turn, illegally.  The signs read something like "This road here... is for airport users... don't risk a ticket... from our police cruisers"

And the MWAA Police Department does enforce the law against "back tracking" (as it is commonly called).

that's just insane.  shunpiking is like tax avoidance - if it's worth your extra time, it's a smart thing to do.

Quote from: agentsteel53 on February 11, 2013, 09:55:21 AM

Quote from: cpzilliacus on February 10, 2013, 11:30:02 PM

Quote from: lepidopteran on February 10, 2013, 11:28:40 PM
The Dulles Access Road in Northern VA used to have some Burma-Shave signs, but not for a service plaza (it has none).  One set was to discourage drivers from "flip-flopping"; going to and from the airport is free, but going to intermediate exits from the Beltway is tolled.  People would sometimes drive to the airport and U-turn, illegally.  The signs read something like "This road here... is for airport users... don't risk a ticket... from our police cruisers"

And the MWAA Police Department does enforce the law against "back tracking" (as it is commonly called).

that's just insane.  shunpiking is like tax avoidance - if it's worth your extra time, it's a smart thing to do.

Because of the setup of the HOV restrictions on I-66, you are exempt from them if you are coming from the airport (A.M.) or driving to the airport (P.M.), so that's another major incentive to "backtrack" through Dulles Airport.

And as the  tolls on the Dulles Toll Road continue to increase to fund the construction of the Dulles Rail line, I think there will be even more incentive to "backtrack," even during off-peak times.

Quote from: lepidopteran on February 10, 2013, 11:28:40 PM
The Dulles Access Road in Northern VA used to have some Burma-Shave signs, but not for a service plaza (it has none).  One set was to discourage drivers from "flip-flopping"; going to and from the airport is free, but going to intermediate exits from the Beltway is tolled.  People would sometimes drive to the airport and U-turn, illegally.  The signs read something like "This road here... is for airport users... don't risk a ticket... from our police cruisers"

Back in the early 1990s VDOT put up some Burma-Shave type signs on I-66 as well in advance of a road widening project: "Driving this road / Making you older? / We'll lighten your load / widen the shoulder."

I suppose we're getting off-topic from the old New Jersey Turnpike photos. The referenced signs in Virginia clearly took their cue from Burma Shave because the meter matched exactly. I had always figured the ones in Maryland were just someone trying to be cute, but this thread makes me think they probably took their cue from New Jersey given the similarity of messages.

Quote from: NJRoadfan on February 10, 2013, 12:44:45 PM
The Atlantic City Expressway still has signs like that in the sequence of "Stay Alert","Stay Awake","Stay Alive" with subtle hints to stop at their rest area. Each end of the highway has signs stating "Thank You For Driving Our Safe Road" too.

I believe these signs don't exist anymore. I recall when they were installed, before the days of rumble strips.  And actually, they weren't designed to get you to stop at the rest area (actually, 'Service Plaza' since there's food and gas).  There are 2 service plazas on the expressway.  These signs were only on the Westbound side, after the last service area.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 11, 2013, 11:02:40 AM
I believe these signs don't exist anymore. I recall when they were installed, before the days of rumble strips.  And actually, they weren't designed to get you to stop at the rest area (actually, 'Service Plaza' since there's food and gas).  There are 2 service plazas on the expressway.  These signs were only on the Westbound side, after the last service area.

They were there as recently as 2004 or so.

Quote from: shadyjay on February 10, 2013, 03:21:39 PM
Mass also posts signs before rest areas (and parking areas) that say "TAKE A BREAK / STAY AWAKE / FOR SAFETY SAKE". 

When originally installed in the mid-1990s (in response to a fatal early morning accident on I-290 in Auburn where a station wagon on the shoulder was struck by a tractor-trailer whose driver had apparently fallen asleep), the Massachusetts signs included radar detector activators (similar to the type MassHighway/MassDOT currently specifies for use on arrow boards in freeway work zones) as well.

The Auburn fatality was also what spurred MassHighway to adopt the use of shoulder rumble strips on their Interstates and freeways.

Quote from: 1995hoo on February 11, 2013, 10:20:33 AM

Back in the early 1990s VDOT put up some Burma-Shave type signs on I-66 as well in advance of a road widening project: "Driving this road / Making you older? / We'll lighten your load / widen the shoulder."

I suppose we're getting off-topic from the old New Jersey Turnpike photos. The referenced signs in Virginia clearly took their cue from Burma Shave because the meter matched exactly. I had always figured the ones in Maryland were just someone trying to be cute, but this thread makes me think they probably took their cue from New Jersey given the similarity of messages.

Also off-topic, but the Burma Shave reference reminded me of an editorial cartoon I saw years ago while reading an old FHWA report on the original Santa Monica Freeway Diamond Lanes.  The cartoon depicted a series of VMS boards that read "The Diamond Lanes/Are Working Well/If You Don't Like Them/Then Go To .../Caltrans"

Quote from: NJRoadfan on February 10, 2013, 12:44:45 PM
The Atlantic City Expressway still has signs like that in the sequence of "Stay Alert","Stay Awake","Stay Alive" with subtle hints to stop at their rest area. Each end of the highway has signs stating "Thank You For Driving Our Safe Road" too.

Dammit! I need an excuse to go on that road!

Quote from: D-Dey65 on February 11, 2013, 08:01:34 PM
Dammit! I need an excuse to go on that road!

Ray Martin caught one of the signs back in 2000:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fraymondcmartinjr.com%2Fnjfreeways%2FACEWBaftrExit31.jpg&hash=be06074ba078cd27423acd13ed4a8eea437cfaa6)

His caption: The yellow sign on the right is the third of a series of yellow warning signs that are posted along several sections of the Atlantic City Expressway to remind motorists driving late at night to be aware of their fatigue.  The first two say "Stay Awake" and "Stay Alert", while this last one says "Stay Alive".

Quote from: NJRoadfan on February 11, 2013, 04:28:36 PM

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 11, 2013, 11:02:40 AM
I believe these signs don't exist anymore. I recall when they were installed, before the days of rumble strips.  And actually, they weren't designed to get you to stop at the rest area (actually, 'Service Plaza' since there's food and gas).  There are 2 service plazas on the expressway.  These signs were only on the Westbound side, after the last service area.

They were there as recently as 2004 or so.

9 year ago?

Since then, a few projects include widening of the WB roadway from the GSP to 3 miles West of the Service Plaza, both toll plazas have open-road tolling, and the overpass for Cross Keys Road, Exit 41, has been widened.

You definitely need an excuse to ride the Expressway...even if it's for a lousy AC Casino Buffet!

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 12, 2013, 10:00:38 AMYou definitely need an excuse to ride the Expressway...even if it's for a lousy AC Casino Buffet!

... or a day-trip to the Shore.  :sombrero:

Quote from: PHLBOS on February 12, 2013, 12:31:25 PM
... or a day-trip to the Shore.  :sombrero:

That involves the GSP for me, not the ACE. I have no reason to ever be on that highway and my joy riding was curtailed years ago by high gas prices.

Quote from: lepidopteran on February 09, 2013, 11:26:19 PM
About those "Keep Awake" signs... while the shape of the signs and the flashing, rings an eerie sense of deja-vu, I cannot recall ever seeing them.  But this puzzles me, because we drove the NJTP quite frequently from Exit 8 to 13 and back between 1970 and 1974.   And I used to notice everything on the turnpike route, sometimes driving other family members nuts by reading all the signs aloud.  (I was 3 when we moved to NJ.) Is it possible that the signs between Exits 8 and 9 were removed with the opening of Exit 8A, since it was now no longer such a long stretch (and might have distracted from the exit itself)?  We almost never went south of Exit 3, so I wouldn't have remembered the signs there, at least not consciously.

The signs were definitely there, between exit 8a and exit 9, sometime after 1972. As a kid I had to travel with may parents from exit 8 to New York just about every weekend, and I definitely remember them.  I'm also pretty sure they existed just about where that temporary merge is now just north of 8a.

Quote from: NJRoadfan on February 12, 2013, 01:06:03 PM

Quote from: PHLBOS on February 12, 2013, 12:31:25 PM
... or a day-trip to the Shore.  :sombrero:

That involves the GSP for me, not the ACE. I have no reason to ever be on that highway and my joy riding was curtailed years ago by high gas prices.

That said, going to Atlantic City from where you are likely wouldn't involve the ACE west of the GSP (where those Burma Shave-motifed safety signs are located) either.

Quote from: NJRoadfan on February 12, 2013, 01:06:03 PM

Quote from: PHLBOS on February 12, 2013, 12:31:25 PM
... or a day-trip to the Shore.  :sombrero:

That involves the GSP for me, not the ACE. I have no reason to ever be on that highway and my joy riding was curtailed years ago by high gas prices.

take the GSP down to the ACE, and take it into philadelphia, take I-95 north to US1, get on US1 and take it through trenton, getting off on NJ29, and then getting on I-195

Thanks, all posters. I really enjoyed reading this thread. I lived in Fort Lee, NJ from 1960 until 1966, then moved to Teaneck (near the missing mile,) and spent many years there. As previously stated, I spent many nights sleeping in my '64 Cadillac in the Vince Lombardi during the early '70's. Definitely the golden age of NJ highways!

Special thanks to Steve D, the OP!

Quote from: Steve on February 06, 2013, 06:38:50 PM

Quote from: Steve D on February 06, 2013, 05:31:12 PM
Part 5....

My favorite yet - I've never seen photos of previous generation VMS before! Thanks for expanding my knowledge base. Had to change a caption on my I-95 page.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alpsroads.net%2Froads%2Fnj%2Fi-95%2Fenred.jpg&hash=95abfebdf0529288d83a770ccbcffbb1b25ffea5) My favorite photo of the previous generation.

I would say some of these are mounted on overpasses and when they are activated some of the Neon lettering wouldn't light up

Got a shot of this in 2009 when i was heading home....at rush hour of course!
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi166.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu102%2Fctsignguy%2FNE%2520Vacation%252010-09%2FDSCF0122.jpg&hash=5c09a0599a37bebb274bd22a7fab30424f2f52ee)

I wish they'd keep these guys up, or make digital LED versions that are still laid out the same (and of course are red).

Quote from: Interstatefan78 on March 10, 2013, 01:00:10 AM

Quote from: Steve on February 06, 2013, 06:38:50 PM

Quote from: Steve D on February 06, 2013, 05:31:12 PM
Part 5....

My favorite yet - I've never seen photos of previous generation VMS before! Thanks for expanding my knowledge base. Had to change a caption on my I-95 page.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alpsroads.net%2Froads%2Fnj%2Fi-95%2Fenred.jpg&hash=95abfebdf0529288d83a770ccbcffbb1b25ffea5) My favorite photo of the previous generation.

I would say some of these are mounted on overpasses and when they are activated some of the Neon lettering wouldn't light up

That was the preferred location - overhead.  When that couldn't be done due to the angle of the crossing overpass, or lack of an overpass for a distance, they would be mounted on the right shoulder.

While some of the Changeable Speed Limit Signs still work, I don't think there's a single Neon VMS sign that completely works 100%.  On many of them, some of the letters don't work.  If you look closely, on some of them the glass tubes for a few letters or numbers are missing completely. 

All new NJ Turnpike VMS/CSLS signage is (or will be) overhead on their own structure.

Those were cutting edge in their day. Last summer, I saw the (new to me) LCD-looking variable message signs on I-4 in Orlando. They seemed like a good idea, but I think full color was a bit much. Wouldn't they be cheaper and less busy looking in a gray-scale implementation?

Quote from: djsinco on March 11, 2013, 12:47:15 PM
Those were cutting edge in their day. Last summer, I saw the (new to me) LCD-looking variable message signs on I-4 in Orlando. They seemed like a good idea, but I think full color was a bit much. Wouldn't they be cheaper and less busy looking in a gray-scale implementation?

NJ Turnpike Authority now uses full color as well. The idea is that they can exactly replicate the colors of a traffic sign (albeit brighter). They wanted that capability and were willing to pay.

Official De-Lurking Post.

The new NJTP VMS/CMS signs are not LCD-like. They are LED. Yes, this seems like a minor technical difference, but this is a forum that debates various highway gothic typefaces on a regular basis.

The in-the-process-of-being-replaced Neon signs were very cool, and decades ahead of their time. The new signs can offer so much more, but I find it funny when a non MUTCD alert is posted -- such as (what seems oddly common) Silver Alerts in NJ -- the fonts seem very default, and certainly not from the Highway Gothic or Clearview typefaces... which seems odd.

Based on this thread, the 1982 build-out brought us the old signs, which lasted 30-years or more... (in some form, anyway...) wonder what we will be talking about in 2043...

I love the turnpike, but hate the tolls and traffic. I drive to Bergen County, NJ and back to King of Prussia, PA a few times a year, and generally use 287/202. With the new bypass around Chalfont; it is only about a 10 minute difference most of the time, believe it or not.

Quote from: Flyer78 on March 12, 2013, 12:12:04 AM
Official De-Lurking Post.

The new NJTP VMS/CMS signs are not LCD-like. They are LED. Yes, this seems like a minor technical difference, but this is a forum that debates various highway gothic typefaces on a regular basis.

The in-the-process-of-being-replaced Neon signs were very cool, and decades ahead of their time. The new signs can offer so much more, but I find it funny when a non MUTCD alert is posted -- such as (what seems oddly common) Silver Alerts in NJ -- the fonts seem very default, and certainly not from the Highway Gothic or Clearview typefaces... which seems odd.

Based on this thread, the 1982 build-out brought us the old signs, which lasted 30-years or more... (in some form, anyway...) wonder what we will be talking about in 2043...

Welcome Flyer78! 

The NJ Turnpike has also been posting occasional 'Travel Time to Route 00, Exit 0, 41 miles, 38 minutes' messages on the screens in similiar very generic formats.

I haven't seen a US or Interstate shield on the LED signs yet, but they've posted very real looking black and white signs (ie: State Law: Keep Right Except to Pass) and blue signs (for EZ Pass or service area info).  For construction alerts, the background is orange.  For traffic congestion/accident issues, a yellow (warning) background is used.

Great photographs of the turnpike!

Times sure have changed.  :-o

Has anybody tried to contact the New Jersey Turnpike commission and see if they're willing  to sell off the Neon VMS signs? The only things keeping me from trying to buy any of them is the money for them and a place to store them.

Quote from: Steve D on January 31, 2013, 09:32:52 PM
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-J7QPsHvoWRk/UQsmW4CL4iI/AAAAAAAAAE0/bvWH8Ghz8sI/s640/exit%252014abc%2520sign.jpg)

Completely off topic but when I first saw this picture, I felt like I had to write a song about this scene;  so I just finished recording one about being able to take a magical ramp that leads to the road network of the 50s and 60s based on this photo and thinking about how nice those backlit signs must have looked at night time.   Demo MP3 (http://42-11.com/media/77_demo0700.mp3)

The southbound car/truck lane merge near exit 8a is being moved to the temporary location (two miles north) this weekend.

Quote from: _Simon on April 18, 2013, 03:35:32 AM

Quote from: Steve D on January 31, 2013, 09:32:52 PM
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-J7QPsHvoWRk/UQsmW4CL4iI/AAAAAAAAAE0/bvWH8Ghz8sI/s640/exit%252014abc%2520sign.jpg)

Completely off topic but when I first saw this picture, I felt like I had to write a song about this scene;  so I just finished recording one about being able to take a magical ramp that leads to the road network of the 50s and 60s based on this photo and thinking about how nice those backlit signs must have looked at night time.   Demo MP3 (http://42-11.com/media/77_demo0400.mp3)

I was noticing that US 9 is omitted from the Newark Airport ramp, but US 22 is not.  I sort of forgot that even with the modern signs on the dual carriageway configuration it was left out in favor of US 22 for many years as well.  It was sometime in the last twenty years when US 9 was added to the mix.  Considering most people consider US 1 & 9 as one route in talk, and even to the point with the combined shields, that back then they did not list it considering there was plenty of room on the assembly.

Good find though!

Old 1955 NJTP Booklet scans. Shows the short dual-dual section in Elizabeth and is a source of the "tolls will be removed when its paid off" myth.

http://s820.photobucket.com/user/njroadfan/library/NJTP%20Booklet

Hit download to get the readable full size images.

NJRoadfan

Thanks for posting the link to the brochure!

I notice the map in that brochure showed the proposed northern extension to the Thruway. Great find! Thanks for sharing it.

Quote from: 1995hoo on August 01, 2013, 07:57:15 AM
I notice the map in that brochure showed the proposed northern extension to the Thruway. Great find! Thanks for sharing it.

I could barely see that. I thought it was just Palisades Interstate Parkway at first.

Quote from: D-Dey65 on August 01, 2013, 08:30:19 AM

Quote from: 1995hoo on August 01, 2013, 07:57:15 AM
I notice the map in that brochure showed the proposed northern extension to the Thruway. Great find! Thanks for sharing it.

I could barely see that. I thought it was just Palisades Interstate Parkway at first.

I did too until I looked at the inset, where it was clearer. I'm viewing it on an iPad, which made zooming in very easy (although some of the other test is very grainy when viewed on here and I will look at it again on a PC later this morning).


Edited to add: I just viewed it on the PC and it's interesting to see the future I-80 listed as "East-West Tpk." I wasn't aware of that–was it originally planned as another toll road under the Turnpike Authority aegis? I suppose that might have made sense prior to the advent of the Interstate system.

looks like a white background logo with blue text.  was dark-on-light ever used for the route shields?

Quote from: 1995hoo on August 01, 2013, 09:16:25 AM

Edited to add: I just viewed it on the PC and it's interesting to see the future I-80 listed as "East-West Tpk." I wasn't aware of that–was it originally planned as another toll road under the Turnpike Authority aegis? I suppose that might have made sense prior to the advent of the Interstate system.

That's an I-80/I-78 hybrid. The Turnpike spur I was familiar with went from Trenton north toward Newton, but that was only through textual description. This may have been what was actually referenced.

Edited to add: What hell? PA 611 already in 1950s?

You had me at "Unusual tri-level construction in the Woodbridge area."  This of course is the famous stack with the GSP and another local road that just happens to run through it.  (Curiously, the only other interchange with another toll road, Exit 6 (PA Turnpike), also has a local road in the middle of it all.

Notice how both bridges in the picture have the same fence-like parapet.  When I used to go through there in the early 70's, the lower overpass had a more traditional single-rail (as I small child, I assumed higher drop = higher fence).   Since this was usually on the way to Brooklyn, I noticed that the other, similar, 3-tiered structure on the route was the never-opened and finally-demolished-last-year interchange built for the Richmond Parkway on the Staten Island Expressway -- it, too, had the taller fence on both bridges.

Quote from: Steve on August 01, 2013, 07:48:33 PM

Quote from: 1995hoo on August 01, 2013, 09:16:25 AM
Edited to add: I just viewed it on the PC and it's interesting to see the future I-80 listed as "East-West Tpk." I wasn't aware of that–was it originally planned as another toll road under the Turnpike Authority aegis? I suppose that might have made sense prior to the advent of the Interstate system.

That's an I-80/I-78 hybrid.

More of a 80-280 hybrid - it crosses the mainline between 15 and 16.

Hmm.......I never heard of I-80 being proposed as East-West Tpke. The original name I remember from when it was being built in the 1960's was Bergen-Passaic Expwy.

What book are these photos from? It looks to old/worn to be from the Images of America book?

were Exit 10 and 12 originally partial interchanges? that guidebook from the 1950s said that those interchanges were either not accessible from the north or the south.

Quote from: mariethefoxy on July 05, 2016, 11:09:03 PM
were Exit 10 and 12 originally partial interchanges? that guidebook from the 1950s said that those interchanges were either not accessible from the north or the south.

Interchange 10 was partial - TPK N to GSP N, GSP S to TPK S. What is now Interchange 11 originally connected with US 9 only. Historic Aerials confirms the same for Interchange 12.

What is up with no mention of US 9?

It seems that old classic wrought iron gantry on US 1 & 9 in Elizabeth at the express/local split that was removed some time ago in the classic photo from NJ archives, showed the road as US 1 solely too I believe.  Also the modern signs just recently added US 9, or at least sometime in the 1990's, as for years Exit 14 was signed I-78- US 1- US 22 in shields which most likely was copied over from this.

I know that New Jersey people call it one and nine and have for years, so I am wondering if it was just called "Route 1" in the day.

Quote from: NJRoadfan on January 30, 2013, 10:08:13 PM
NJTPA maintains a large archive of Turnpike memorabilia. A ton of photos landed up in the Arcadia Press book "Images of America: The New Jersey Turnpike" if anyone is looking for more. The NJ State Museum also had an exhibit entitled "What Exit?: New Jersey and it's Turnpike" that made its rounds at various locations in the state back in 2002. One of these days I'll post some photos of the exhibit that I took.

Has anyone found more old pics?

Quote from: Mergingtraffic on May 11, 2017, 03:59:18 PM

Quote from: NJRoadfan on January 30, 2013, 10:08:13 PM
NJTPA maintains a large archive of Turnpike memorabilia. A ton of photos landed up in the Arcadia Press book "Images of America: The New Jersey Turnpike" if anyone is looking for more. The NJ State Museum also had an exhibit entitled "What Exit?: New Jersey and it's Turnpike" that made its rounds at various locations in the state back in 2002. One of these days I'll post some photos of the exhibit that I took.

Has anyone found more old pics?

I'd like to know that myself. I posted some pics from the Woodrow Wilson Service Area in the Wikimedia Commons and I wanted more specific details, hoping I could use some pre-HMSHost info for the descriptions.

Quote from: NJRoadfan on January 30, 2013, 10:08:13 PM
NJTPA maintains a large archive of Turnpike memorabilia. A ton of photos landed up in the Arcadia Press book "Images of America: The New Jersey Turnpike" if anyone is looking for more. The NJ State Museum also had an exhibit entitled "What Exit?: New Jersey and it's Turnpike" that made its rounds at various locations in the state back in 2002. One of these days I'll post some photos of the exhibit that I took.

I’ve tried to find pictures from the What Exit? exhibit, but they never made it to the NJTA page - or even anywhere I can find on the Internet. I wonder what they’ve done with it? Anyone know?

Also, for a fun time, watch this YouTube clip I found while scouring for old Turnpike material: if you haven’t seen it already, it’s so... fifties. The funny thing is, you’ll see in the video that they want you to pull over and wait for someone from the NJTA in case of a breakdown; that still exists today! I called AAA when I had a tire blowout a couple of years ago, and they put me through to the Turnpike Authority, saying that it’s their turf.
https://youtu.be/hSRhEJc3GHw


Side note: at 8:22, they show “traffic moving along in both lanes during a major holiday rush”. .... BOY, those must have been the days!!! I’m 32 years old, and have probably spent about 25 Thanksgivings sitting on the Turnpike...

Quote from: Mergingtraffic on May 11, 2017, 03:59:18 PM

Quote from: NJRoadfan on January 30, 2013, 10:08:13 PM
NJTPA maintains a large archive of Turnpike memorabilia. A ton of photos landed up in the Arcadia Press book "Images of America: The New Jersey Turnpike" if anyone is looking for more. The NJ State Museum also had an exhibit entitled "What Exit?: New Jersey and it's Turnpike" that made its rounds at various locations in the state back in 2002. One of these days I'll post some photos of the exhibit that I took.

Has anyone found more old pics?

I think I still have a few left somewhere and I will check, but I posted the most interesting ones when I started the thread.  However, for a real treat check out the link below for some unique photos, including one of the unique "dual/dual" section near exit 13 in the 1950s (which proves it was not an "express/local" set up like some have suggested, as it only goes for about one mile after you pass exit 13 southbound)

https://placesjournal.org/article/the-highway-not-taken-tony-smith-and-the-suburban-sublime/?cn-reloaded=1

Yes diito for the Garden State Parkway as both roads have their own contractors.  AAA, though, is to reimburse you for the cost, that can be a pain in the butt.  Then when I my battery went dead in 1984 in Union, Seville's Towing in Westfield had the contract for that part of the roadway and came by and gave me a jump as the Troopers called for help when one saw me on the side of the freeway.  Only had 5 bucks on me which I would given the man who started me as a tip, but he had the nerve to say "that will be 15 bucks!"  I said I only had five and he got real anal and said "I will let you go now, but break down again don't call me!"  Like I was the one who called him anyway as it was an officer of Troop E who made the call.

I also broke down in Holmdel where a garage in Matawan had the contract for that part of the highway, so this time I had money for him as it was a flat where I had no jack to change it myself (as we did that in the 80's lol), but the trucks these contractors have even have the Parkway and Turnpike logo on their wreckers as well.

Quote from: Steve D on July 10, 2019, 04:27:23 PM

I think I still have a few left somewhere and I will check, but I posted the most interesting ones when I started the thread.  However, for a real treat check out the link below for some unique photos, including one of the unique "dual/dual" section near exit 13 in the 1950s (which proves it was not an "express/local" set up like some have suggested, as it only goes for about one mile after you pass exit 13 southbound)

https://placesjournal.org/article/the-highway-not-taken-tony-smith-and-the-suburban-sublime/?cn-reloaded=1

Wow, this was an unexpectedly interesting read in and of itself!! The pictures were great, too!

Steve D, that bottom photo in your link showing the dual/dual roadways is labeled 1970, not 1950's, and I'm sure that's correct because construction on the dual/dual project didn't begin until the late 1960's.

Quote from: Steve D on July 10, 2019, 04:27:23 PM

Quote from: Mergingtraffic on May 11, 2017, 03:59:18 PM

Quote from: NJRoadfan on January 30, 2013, 10:08:13 PM
NJTPA maintains a large archive of Turnpike memorabilia. A ton of photos landed up in the Arcadia Press book "Images of America: The New Jersey Turnpike" if anyone is looking for more. The NJ State Museum also had an exhibit entitled "What Exit?: New Jersey and it's Turnpike" that made its rounds at various locations in the state back in 2002. One of these days I'll post some photos of the exhibit that I took.

Has anyone found more old pics?

I think I still have a few left somewhere and I will check, but I posted the most interesting ones when I started the thread.  However, for a real treat check out the link below for some unique photos, including one of the unique "dual/dual" section near exit 13 in the 1950s (which proves it was not an "express/local" set up like some have suggested, as it only goes for about one mile after you pass exit 13 southbound)

https://placesjournal.org/article/the-highway-not-taken-tony-smith-and-the-suburban-sublime/?cn-reloaded=1

Who suggested that? It's well known it's always been a dual/dual setup. And as mentioned, it wasn't a 1950's design.

Jc3ebrules, I just watched the NJTP video you linked and found it fascinating, informative, and nostalgic.  Thank you.

ixnay

Yes, that's a great video about the NJT's early years. Interesting to watch the early radio dispatching and operations. Also seeing the Turnpike in its original form and the old cars from the 1950's is very cool!

Quote from: SignBridge on July 10, 2019, 08:32:11 PM
Steve D, that bottom photo in your link showing the dual/dual roadways is labeled 1970, not 1950's, and I'm sure that's correct because construction on the dual/dual project didn't begin until the late 1960's.

He's talking about this one...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fplacesjournal.org%2Fassets%2Flegacy%2Fmedia%2Fimages%2Fsalomon-smith-7_525.jpg&hash=d688bd98282b36e50b7c626200b9db919e575d02)
It was probably done to make overcrossings easier. A 1957 aerial shows that it ended just below the photo. The railroad and Bayway overpasses were replaced when the Turnpike was widened, but it looks like the Goethals Bridge approach survived as the westbound lanes until 2017.

[/quote]

Who suggested that? It's well known it's always been a dual/dual setup. And as mentioned, it wasn't a 1950's design.
[/quote]

To be clear, the turnpike opened in 1951 and this small (about 1 mile) section just south of exit 13 existed from day one as a "dual/dual" section - see the picture referenced from the 1950's  and historic aerial photos from the 1950s.  Not sure why it existed (it was 2-2-2-2), but someone on one of these boards a few years ago called it "an express/local" section which it is clearly not, since it started after exit 13 southbound and lasted only a mile.  I once thought it was possibly due to overpasses above not wide enough to fit 3 lanes, but that couldn't be the case as the turnpike itself constructed all of the overpasses at the same time, with the exception of the Goethals bridge which the turnpike was able to fit 3 lanes below in a 3-3-3-3 configuration when it expanded in 1965-69 to include the truck/bus lanes.

So to summarize, these lanes existed in 1951, and was the only "dual/dual" section until the truck/bus lanes opened from exit 10 to exit 14 in 1969.

Quote from: NE2 on July 10, 2019, 10:55:39 PM

Quote from: SignBridge on July 10, 2019, 08:32:11 PM
Steve D, that bottom photo in your link showing the dual/dual roadways is labeled 1970, not 1950's, and I'm sure that's correct because construction on the dual/dual project didn't begin until the late 1960's.

He's talking about this one...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fplacesjournal.org%2Fassets%2Flegacy%2Fmedia%2Fimages%2Fsalomon-smith-7_525.jpg&hash=d688bd98282b36e50b7c626200b9db919e575d02)
It was probably done to make overcrossings easier. A 1957 aerial shows that it ended just below the photo. The railroad and Bayway overpasses were replaced when the Turnpike was widened, but it looks like the Goethals Bridge approach survived as the westbound lanes until 2017.

You are right on that one.  When I-278 got built to connect to US 1 & 9 in Linden the dual approach was then added.    Good catch on that one as many of us either did not realize that one as we took for granite that the approach always was split at the bottom.

Also to note Exit 13 was to the north of the Goethals Bridge and not to the south of it as it has been for ages.     The photo shows an unusual set up for that interchange instead of the usual trumpet.  Most likely cause the Elizabeth River was there it was designed that way, but also Exit 14 before the Newark Bay Extension was added also had the same interchange design hence the NB to WB there now goes under the Oak Island Yard viaduct instead of built with its own flyover.  Historic Aerials shows that the NB ramp from 14 was inside the ramp NB to the 14 plaza.

Of course for the times those interchanges worked as Exit 13 ending at Trenton Avenue  gave motorists access to the Business District via 3rd Avenue rather than use NJ 439 and South Broad Street like now.  Also remember that Downtown Elizabeth is east of the Turnpike and  not on Broad Street like many believe.  Elizabeth Avenue is the Downtown Business District all the way to Front Street.  Most likely because the defunct Shore Branch of the now gone CNJ Railroad is what built Elizabeth (originally Elizabethtown) and not the Penn or CNJ mainline even though Midtown Elizabeth was built around their train stations. 

Exit 14 originally tied into a traffic circle now replaced due to the 78 freeway and the original terminal prior to 1971 was located on Port Street just to the southwest of the current toll plaza of Exit 14.  So the terminal was a slam dunk drive from the original Turnpike freeway Exit 14.

Quote from: Steve D on January 30, 2013, 08:47:56 PM
I have a bunch of great photos from the Turnpike from the 1950s through the early 1970s that I will post in waves roughly beginning at the northern end.

We'll start at the original northern terminus of the NJ Turnpike.  Long before interstate 80, the Turnpike simply ended at a trumpet interchange with US 46.  This configuration lasted until 1969 (the bridge over US 46 still exists just east of the mainline Turnpike with only the exit ramp active); the toll booth was removed in 1964 when it was combined with the toll booth at exit 16 (today 16E).

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-1V7bFS8eQ9I/UQnEaCWwm3I/AAAAAAAAACE/Vzy9J6HXxQI/s640/exit%252018.jpg)

Once the tollbooths for Exit 18 were moved south and combined with Exit 16 in 1964, the END OF TURNPIKE signs were erected (and lasted only five years until 1969 when I-95 was completed to I-80).  You can still see the horizontal lines across the pavement from the old toll plaza.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-4YCcickUow0/UQnHw87BEXI/AAAAAAAAACw/XdtE7ovJ58s/s640/end%2520of%2520tpk.jpg)

Looking northbound at the original exit 16 - a split plaza before being combined with exit 18 in 1964.  It is important to note that at this time (prior to 1964) exit 17 existed just north as a FULL INTERCHANGE!! Today exit 16E accounts for that access with a ramp leading to NJ3 west in roughly the same location (in this picture, exit 16 only headed towards the Lincoln Tunnel).  Like several early Turnpike exits (exit 12, the original exit 10 - Garden State Parkway) this exit was (and is) only accessible to and from one direction.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-aTntNA0JvKY/UQnLg4JR8dI/AAAAAAAAADQ/faHOb7dsy9U/s640/exit%252016.jpg)

This is located northbound just prior to where interchange 15X is today.  Until 1974 several major Turnpike bridges did not have shoulders and this system was used to indicate lane closures when a vehicle broke down or due to constriction.  The  LANE CLOSED AHEAD sign could be moved physically to indicate a lane closure long before the standard VMS.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-LwL1Re8fME8/UQnGWj3Ax-I/AAAAAAAAACY/alB4sOks-4I/s640/exit%252016-18.jpg)


To be continued.....

This was brought up in the other thread, but here's some pictures I posted years ago of the original northern end of the turnpike, 1951-1971.

Anyone else recall the neon or fluorescent green flashing signs on the median of the New Jersey Turnpike that encouraged drivers to stop at a service plaza and take a break from driving? I remember them being there in the late 1960's or early 1970's  - these were gone by the late 1970's.

Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 07, 2020, 12:00:44 AM
Anyone else recall the neon or fluorescent green flashing signs on the median of the New Jersey Turnpike that encouraged drivers to stop at a service plaza and take a break from driving? I remember them being there in the late 1960's or early 1970's  - these were gone by the late 1970's.

Unfortunately no, and you'd think I would. Especially since the red neon VMS signs also existed at the same time.

Quote from: D-Dey65 on July 07, 2020, 12:15:00 AM

Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 07, 2020, 12:00:44 AM
Anyone else recall the neon or fluorescent green flashing signs on the median of the New Jersey Turnpike that encouraged drivers to stop at a service plaza and take a break from driving? I remember them being there in the late 1960's or early 1970's  - these were gone by the late 1970's.

Unfortunately no, and you'd think I would. Especially since the red neon VMS signs also existed at the same time.

Are you talking about the median signs that were interior lit and sequenced something like

KEEP AWAKE

FOR SAFETY

REST NEXT

SERVICE AREA (n) MILES

?

ixnay

Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 07, 2020, 12:00:44 AM
Anyone else recall the neon or fluorescent green flashing signs on the median of the New Jersey Turnpike that encouraged drivers to stop at a service plaza and take a break from driving? I remember them being there in the late 1960's or early 1970's  - these were gone by the late 1970's.

Those were discussed in a thread from 2013:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=8610.msg202533#msg202533

Quote from: 1995hoo on July 07, 2020, 09:25:47 AM

Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 07, 2020, 12:00:44 AM
Anyone else recall the neon or fluorescent green flashing signs on the median of the New Jersey Turnpike that encouraged drivers to stop at a service plaza and take a break from driving? I remember them being there in the late 1960's or early 1970's  - these were gone by the late 1970's.

Those were discussed in a thread from 2013:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=8610.msg202533#msg202533

Yep.  I only saw those signs in the daytime.

ixnay

Quote from: 1995hoo on July 07, 2020, 09:25:47 AM

Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 07, 2020, 12:00:44 AM
Anyone else recall the neon or fluorescent green flashing signs on the median of the New Jersey Turnpike that encouraged drivers to stop at a service plaza and take a break from driving? I remember them being there in the late 1960's or early 1970's  - these were gone by the late 1970's.

Those were discussed in a thread from 2013:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=8610.msg202533#msg202533

I thought he was talking about a completely different set of signs.

Quote from: D-Dey65 on July 07, 2020, 12:15:00 AM

Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 07, 2020, 12:00:44 AM
Anyone else recall the neon or fluorescent green flashing signs on the median of the New Jersey Turnpike that encouraged drivers to stop at a service plaza and take a break from driving? I remember them being there in the late 1960's or early 1970's  - these were gone by the late 1970's.

Unfortunately no, and you'd think I would. Especially since the red neon VMS signs also existed at the same time.

These were quite different from the red neon DMS units. 

They were  backlit, and there was a series of maybe as many as five in a row on the median of the Turnpike, had either green neon or some other source of green lighting inside that lit them up (I do not think they were on during hours of daylight). 

Maybe not florescent tubes inside either, since these had to flash pretty quickly, and I think they may have flashed "in sequence" to catch the attention of drivers, the sequence being consistent with the direction of travel.

They were pretty retro cool. 

I just did a Google image search and the only photos I found of those signs were in the thread I linked above. Too bad. I don't remember them, but that's not surprising because cpzilliacus says they were gone by the late 1970s.

The Google search did turn up a Car and Driver article about the Turnpike that refers to a poem referencing those signs: https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15391278/the-great-big-shouldered-road-feature/

The reference I find more interesting in that article is to someone named Evan Macbeth. I went to college with someone of that name and I can't help but wonder if it's the same guy. I seem to recall another article quoting him as describing the area north of Carteret as "miles and miles of universal fart."

Anyone remember the music video for The Church's song "Columbus?" I've posted this before, but a shot of one of the turnpike's red neon VMS signs can be seen there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owSg2fJPgV0

Quote from: Steve D on February 07, 2013, 07:58:24 PM
I have some photos from the planned dual/dual widening of the Western Spur.

Background:  In 1985 the Turnpike announced three widening projects as part of what they called the 1985-90 Widening Program:

1)  Truck/bus lane extension from exit 9 to exit 8a
2)  Adding a fourth lane in the truck/bus roadway between exits 11 and 14
3)  Adding truck/bus lanes to the Western Spur between the "Northern Mixing Bowl" south of exit 15E and exit 18W.

The first two projects were completed by 1990 but the third was cancelled I think due to environmental issues.....Maybe someday?


Relocated exit 16W...this exit never seems to stay still; every few years the toll booths are expanded, the ramps to route 3 are re-configured, or the ramps to the Turnpike are altered.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-iNsAQJmIed4/URRI6sEYwVI/AAAAAAAAALE/NbkH_vuX5qE/s640/exit%252016w%25201985%2520plan.jpg)

Exit 15W plans...notice that the truck/bus lanes for the western spur would have crossed over the mainline (on presumably a very high bridge) to join the other three roads of the western spur.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-_JsT9TRgzc0/URRK6Dxo30I/AAAAAAAAALw/OVIRZbWBEwI/s640/exit%252015w%25201985%2520plans.jpg)

Exit 15E plans...notice those three loops from the toll plaza northbound...it would probably be difficult to provide good signage in such a short area with so many different exits and options (note that the truck/bus lanes for the western spur are actually on the outside of the mainline, which is on the outside of the cars only lane of the western spur.....)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ehsn-tq0pRw/URRIyU712BI/AAAAAAAAAK0/rSf4J-GSMCg/s640/exit%252015e%25201985%2520plan.jpg)

I also seem to remember a new exit - 15W-A - was proposed as part of this project but I could not find it in the plans.

That's all the photos I have for now - I hope you have enjoyed them!

These photos contain pictures of the western spur with planned full truck/bus lanes, from an abandoned 1985-90 widening proposal I posted years ago.  It looks like the outer lanes would end at the 18W toll both - I don't recall when I scanned these seeing any plans for north of the toll plaza.

Quote from: Steve D on March 19, 2021, 04:18:30 PM
These photos contain pictures of the western spur with planned full truck/bus lanes, from an abandoned 1985-90 widening proposal I posted years ago.  It looks like the outer lanes would end at the 18W toll both - I don't recall when I scanned these seeing any plans for north of the toll plaza.

I'm not scrolling all the way back, but I think the extension west of Exit 16W would have been the replacement of 15AW and likely tied into the 17 cloverleaf. I would imagine whatever they come up with is not going to eat up acres of Meadowlands like the old drawings.

I wonder if this was there during the 1950s?
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50055287403_02227b6e6f_c.jpg)

Probably was 'cause I remember seeing those signs in the 1960's and 70's. In the 1960's you could also get a copy of those Turnpike regs at tollbooths if you asked for it.