New Interstate 885 in Durham

[bob7374]

I've posted photos site contributor David Johnson took of the newly opened US 70 East (Future I-885 South) lanes and new signage put up along US 70 for the East End Connector project at: http://malmeroads.net/ncfutints/fut885.html#photos

[1995hoo]

^^^^

I've always found it mildly interesting that North Carolina's signs listing Petersburg don't say "Petersburg, Va." If it were a reference to Richmond or Atlanta, I'd certainly understand not clarifying, but Petersburg doesn't seem like all that significant or well-known of a place (or unique of a name) and I'd expect most state DOTs to include the state abbreviation for a place like that when it's in another state.

[Strider]

^^^^

I've always found it mildly interesting that North Carolina's signs listing Petersburg don't say "Petersburg, Va." If it were a reference to Richmond or Atlanta, I'd certainly understand not clarifying, but Petersburg doesn't seem like all that significant or well-known of a place (or unique of a name) and I'd expect most state DOTs to include the state abbreviation for a place like that when it's in another state.

Petersburg is where I-85 meets and ends at I-95. Yeah, even though it is not a big city, I do consider it significant.

[1995hoo]

^^^^

I've always found it mildly interesting that North Carolina's signs listing Petersburg don't say "Petersburg, Va." If it were a reference to Richmond or Atlanta, I'd certainly understand not clarifying, but Petersburg doesn't seem like all that significant or well-known of a place (or unique of a name) and I'd expect most state DOTs to include the state abbreviation for a place like that when it's in another state.

Petersburg is where I-85 meets and ends at I-95. Yeah, even though it is not a big city, I do consider it significant.

Right, but does it have any real (recent) historical significance other than as an Interstate control city? ("Recent" denoting that of course there was fighting there during the War Between the States.)

[sprjus4]

^

Richmond would be a better control city IMO, even if it doesn't go directly to Richmond.

VDOT uses Petersburg as a northbound control city as well.

I-295 uses Charlottesville, Williamsburg, Norfolk, and Va Beach as control cities despite I-95 not going to any of those places, but it does connect to I-64 which does.

[1995hoo]

^

Richmond would be a better control city IMO, even if it doesn't go directly to Richmond.

VDOT uses Petersburg as a northbound control city as well.

....

Right, but it's understandable why VDOT wouldn't post it as "Petersburg, Va.," which is what I was commenting on in reply #201 (NCDOT not using the "Va." following that particular city's name). There is in fact a Petersburg in North Carolina, but it's in the far western part of the state and is a tiny place, such that no reasonable person would be likely to confuse it with one in Virginia, but I still find the omission of the state slightly odd in this particular case.

[sprjus4]

^

Then there's cases like "Chesapeake, VA" on US-17 near Elizabeth City, where there's no Chesapeake in North Carolina.

Contrary, "Elizabeth City" is signed in Hampton Roads without "NC" despite presence of Elizabeth River (which US-17 crosses), former Elizabeth City County which merged into Hampton in the 1950s, etc.

[Mapmikey]

I was thinking maybe the standard was to include the out-of-state name if your state has a prominent city of the same name.

Virginia appears to do this with Rocky Mount NC but not Durham and in a reverse version, Washington VA to differentiate DC.

I was expecting to find the proof at the US 25 split from I-26 in Hendersonville NC.  The control city is Greenville, but no SC.

Then I poked around trying to find ANY example in NC of putting the out-of-state state abbreviation and haven't found one yet.  Maybe they would only do it if they had duplicative place names very close to each other (such as is the case with I-85 in Gaffney SC signing Boiling Springs NC because not far away there is an exit for Boiling Springs SC; there is no North Carolina road pointing to the SC one because it is way too close to Spartanburg for that to be necessary).

So maybe NC just doesn't ever do it.

[sprjus4]

Then I poked around trying to find ANY example in NC of putting the out-of-state state abbreviation and haven't found one yet.  Maybe they would only do it if they had duplicative place names very close to each other (such as is the case with I-85 in Gaffney SC signing Boiling Springs NC because not far away there is an exit for Boiling Springs SC; there is no North Carolina road pointing to the SC one because it is way too close to Spartanburg for that to be necessary).

^

Then there's cases like "Chesapeake, VA" on US-17 near Elizabeth City, where there's no Chesapeake in North Carolina.

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.2498751,-76.3180648,3a,47.3y,70.65h,89.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sazsm7pI5B902zdug5jJb8A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[architect77]

^^^^

I've always found it mildly interesting that North Carolina's signs listing Petersburg don't say "Petersburg, Va." If it were a reference to Richmond or Atlanta, I'd certainly understand not clarifying, but Petersburg doesn't seem like all that significant or well-known of a place (or unique of a name) and I'd expect most state DOTs to include the state abbreviation for a place like that when it's in another state.

Petersburg is where I-85 meets and ends at I-95. Yeah, even though it is not a big city, I do consider it significant.

Virginia prioritizes out of state control cities more than they should. It seems to undermine the State as a destination itself.

Leaving D.C you see Richmond, then it's Miami, Durham, Atlanta and Rocky Mount NC. The NC is of course, because "Rocky Mount" isn't big or well known to stand on its own. But just mentioning NC in the middle of VA seems to give it more prominence.

Now about NC, long ago they used to mention cities outside of the state more often and close to the borders, but sometime after the 80s the state became so full of itself, that they would list the last tiny town within the borders rather than acknowledge that life existed elsewhere.

i was surprised by the Petersburg mention on Northbound I-85 as Henderson is what you'd expect from NCDOT since you're not right at the border.

But Petersburg is the absolute correct control city because it's the end of I-85 which is a pretty important interstate and one of the nation's major industrial corridors.

if you were wondering about the state abbreviations, have you noticed that NCDOT never puts periods or apostrophes on signs?

"RDU Intl Airport". I like that they omit both of those, because they always look hokey when other states display them. It's nice and clean and internationally simple without.

[sprjus4]

Virginia prioritizes out of state control cities more than they should. It seems to undermine the State as a destination itself.

Leaving D.C you see Richmond, then it's Miami, Durham, Atlanta and Rocky Mount NC. The NC is of course, because "Rocky Mount" isn't big or well known to stand on its own. But just mentioning NC in the middle of VA seems to give it more prominence.

I don't view it as prioritizing "out of state control cities" , it's more of just simply listing the next largest city on the route. Should Virginia list Emporia or South Hill as control cities? No. Ay least Rocky Mount and Durham make more sense. Now granted, Rocky Mount should reasonably be Fayetteville, similar to how Richmond is a control city for northbound south of Rocky Mount.

I-64 west of I-81 is Charleston, not Clifton Forge, which makes sense. I-95 north of Richmond-Petersburg is Washington, not Fredericksburg, Stafford, Arlington, etc or some other Virginia city, again, which makes sense.

[Mapmikey]

Virginia prioritizes out of state control cities more than they should. It seems to undermine the State as a destination itself.

Leaving D.C you see Richmond, then it's Miami, Durham, Atlanta and Rocky Mount NC. The NC is of course, because "Rocky Mount" isn't big or well known to stand on its own. But just mentioning NC in the middle of VA seems to give it more prominence.

I don't view it as prioritizing "out of state control cities" , it's more of just simply listing the next largest city on the route. Should Virginia list Emporia or South Hill as control cities? No. Ay least Rocky Mount and Durham make more sense. Now granted, Rocky Mount should reasonably be Fayetteville, similar to how Richmond is a control city for northbound south of Rocky Mount.

I-64 west of I-81 is Charleston, not Clifton Forge, which makes sense. I-95 north of Richmond-Petersburg is Washington, not Fredericksburg, Stafford, Arlington, etc or some other Virginia city, again, which makes sense.

Fredericksburg and Alexandria used to be control cities on I-95 between the two locations...

https://goo.gl/maps/wKNiVN1BjgSQuZ3D6
https://goo.gl/maps/E4kYoo4Er6vR3UxXA

https://goo.gl/maps/bsS9Qw6J1FKzaZTEA
From the other direction it is Richmond/Washington

[1995hoo]

.....and to underscore, my prior point was not whether Petersburg is the "right" control city, my point was simply that I found it odd that the signs in the Durham area refer to it merely as "Petersburg," and not "Petersburg, Va.," because I don't think it's a significant enough place in its own right that the average driver would see the word "Petersburg" and automatically think of a place in Virginia approximately 120 miles way.

[sprjus4]

Fredericksburg and Alexandria used to be control cities on I-95 between the two locations...

https://goo.gl/maps/wKNiVN1BjgSQuZ3D6
https://goo.gl/maps/E4kYoo4Er6vR3UxXA

https://goo.gl/maps/bsS9Qw6J1FKzaZTEA
From the other direction it is Richmond/Washington

I'd consider them more secondary control cities rather than primary. For long-distance traffic, the main points are Washington and Richmond.

[sprjus4]

Since I misunderstood the OP originally, here's a shot at Norfolk / Hampton Roads.

DE-1 South exit for US-13 in Dover, DE - 200 miles
I-85 North exit for US-58 in South Hill, VA - 115 miles
I-64 East exit for I-295 (bypass) west of Richmond, VA - 107 miles
I-95 South exit for I-295 (bypass) north of Richmond, VA - 100 miles

[LM117]

The Briggs Avenue ramp to NC-147 South will be closed this weekend.

https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2020/2020-11-20-briggs-ave-ramp-nc-147-south-closure.aspx

[wdcrft63]

.....and to underscore, my prior point was not whether Petersburg is the "right" control city, my point was simply that I found it odd that the signs in the Durham area refer to it merely as "Petersburg," and not "Petersburg, Va.," because I don't think it's a significant enough place in its own right that the average driver would see the word "Petersburg" and automatically think of a place in Virginia approximately 120 miles way.

I think it should be Richmond. But then, I grew up in Richmond.

[bob7374]

The Briggs Avenue ramp to NC-147 South will be closed this weekend.

https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2020/2020-11-20-briggs-ave-ramp-nc-147-south-closure.aspx

This is hopefully the final project that will complete the NC 147 segment of the East End Connector work. The project site says all NC 147 work is to be completed this month. That site also says the Connector won't open until June, despite it being 93% complete and that the Construction Progress Report says the work will be completed on January 20, 2021.

[architect77]

^

Then there's cases like "Chesapeake, VA" on US-17 near Elizabeth City, where there's no Chesapeake in North Carolina.

Contrary, "Elizabeth City" is signed in Hampton Roads without "NC" despite presence of Elizabeth River (which US-17 crosses), former Elizabeth City County which merged into Hampton in the 1950s, etc.

The VA Tidewater loves being associated with Northeastern NC. As far as scenery and beaches go, it's like shangria for them compared to to the concrete and boardwalk of Va. Beach.

Northeastern NC is a bonafide part of the Norfolk metro area region.

[architect77]

.....and to underscore, my prior point was not whether Petersburg is the "right" control city, my point was simply that I found it odd that the signs in the Durham area refer to it merely as "Petersburg," and not "Petersburg, Va.," because I don't think it's a significant enough place in its own right that the average driver would see the word "Petersburg" and automatically think of a place in Virginia approximately 120 miles way.

I think it should be Richmond. But then, I grew up in Richmond.

Richmond's skyline appears on I-95 Northbound in a manner that is one of the nation's most dramatic of all. There's something about your car's elevation and Downtown Richmond's on a distant hill that couldn't be more perfect.

Then there's Richmond's uniform low-height buildings that emphasize breadth over height which I like. That's why I don't mind Raleigh's penchant for 17-20 floor towers, it's different from the rest of the world trying to be validated with tall towers.

[rickmastfan67]

Richmond's skyline appears on I-95 Northbound in a manner that is one of the nation's most dramatic of all. There's something about your car's elevation and Downtown Richmond's on a distant hill that couldn't be more perfect.

I honestly doubt it could top Pittsburgh's on I-376 when coming into town on the Parkway West.  Can't see anything of Downtown till you pop thru the Fort Pitt Tunnel and there's the Downtown Skyline!  Never gets old to me.

[sprjus4]

The VA Tidewater loves being associated with Northeastern NC. As far as scenery and beaches go, it's like shangria for them compared to to the concrete and boardwalk of Va. Beach.

Northeastern NC is a bonafide part of the Norfolk metro area region.

I'd definitely consider as far south as Elizabeth City apart of the greater metro / exurban area. Two major north-south 4 lane highways, US-17 and NC-VA-168, that have seen major improvements (limited access new location alignments) on the Virginia side in the past 2 decades, connecting to Norfolk, and in the future eventually an interstate highway (I-87) between Elizabeth City and Norfolk.

[architect77]

Richmond's skyline appears on I-95 Northbound in a manner that is one of the nation's most dramatic of all. There's something about your car's elevation and Downtown Richmond's on a distant hill that couldn't be more perfect.

I honestly doubt it could top Pittsburgh's on I-376 when coming into town on the Parkway West.  Can't see anything of Downtown till you pop thru the Fort Pitt Tunnel and there's the Downtown Skyline!  Never gets old to me.

I've never been to Pittsburgh unfortunately, one of the handful that I haven't at least driven through.

On a much smaller scale and no longer dramatic due to bright lights of some businesses, I used to take all of my friends during college down Lake Wheeler Road at night and t downtown Raleigh. It was dark with thick trees on both sides of a small hill descending in elevation, and suddenly the trees on each side framed a city-looking skyline that was cropped to hide the ends.

Some yelled at the surprise of briefly seeing a cityscape for suburban little Raleigh. In the late 80s, the 21 story (now Duke Energy) white bldg. with vertical dark windows was the tallest. At that time Raleighites would have been fine if it didn't exist due to its unsafe reputation.

So you should  head North and report what you think of Richmond when it appears up on a hill as to me what looks like another Northeastern city, and i'm a 10 yr New Yotk resident and 2 in Boston.

ric by Stephen Edwards, on Flickr

[Dirt Roads]

Richmond's skyline appears on I-95 Northbound in a manner that is one of the nation's most dramatic of all. There's something about your car's elevation and Downtown Richmond's on a distant hill that couldn't be more perfect.

I honestly doubt it could top Pittsburgh's on I-376 when coming into town on the Parkway West.  Can't see anything of Downtown till you pop thru the Fort Pitt Tunnel and there's the Downtown Skyline!  Never gets old to me.

I've never been to Pittsburgh unfortunately, one of the handful that I haven't at least driven through.

On a much smaller scale and no longer dramatic due to bright lights of some businesses, I used to take all of my friends during college down Lake Wheeler Road at night and t downtown Raleigh. It was dark with thick trees on both sides of a small hill descending in elevation, and suddenly the trees on each side framed a city-looking skyline that was cropped to hide the ends.

Some yelled at the surprise of briefly seeing a cityscape for suburban little Raleigh. In the late 80s, the 21 story (now Duke Energy) white bldg. with vertical dark windows was the tallest. At that time Raleighites would have been fine if it didn't exist due to its unsafe reputation.

So you should  head North and report what you think of Richmond when it appears up on a hill as to me what looks like another Northeastern city, and i'm a 10 yr New Yotk resident and 2 in Boston.

While I love the Richmond skyline from ground level (and the I-95 bridge) perspective, but rickmastfan67 is absolutely right about the entrance into Pittsburgh.  My first visit was back when my sister was a co-op working out in Carnegie and I detoured thru the Fort Pitt Tubes to see downtown.  Little did I know that I would get work in the 'Burgh a few years later and would have an office in downtown a few years after that.  If you love steel bridges, there is nothing better (although the view from coming out from the Mount Washington Tunnel on the light rail system is more imposing, being down closer to the river). 

[bob7374]

Getting back to I-885. A South I-885 reassurance marker has appeared on the Durham Freeway after the future East End Connector interchange and prior to the Ellis Road exit. A sign that was supposed to be covered over? Does this mean the AASHTO Fall Meeting approved the I-885 designation? A photo of the new sign, taken by Charles M. Kunz, is available at:
http://malmeroads.net/ncfutints/fut885.html#photos

The Forum no longer lets me post photos directly in my posts (and has removed all the photos from my previous ones).