Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana

[mukade]

I thought the same about Cincinnati, unless they were worried about confusion with Cincinnati, Ohio, there is a sign on SR 37 at US 50 in Bedford that is for "that" Cincinnati. The SR 45 interchange plans are a bit earlier to the SR 445 interchange, March or April I believe. As for the interchange, it will be a simple diamond, which is all that is really needed for that location.

Wow, is there a Cincinnati in Ohio too??

OK, so back to I-69 and Bloomington. The paid subscription-only Bloomington Herald Times has a guest editorial by Tom Tokarski, the #1 I-69 opponent and media darling. I don't subscribe, but anyone can read the comments here.

[hbelkins]

I would rather do away with Davis-Bacon and lower labor rates

[mukade]

INDOT started to build a new interchange on I-69 in Fort Wayne at Union Chapel Road on the north side of town. My daughter who lives in Fort Wayne, asked an insightful question about it: what exit number will it have? So I looked at the online plans and it is supposed to be exit 117.



At the same time, the exits under construction on the new section down south are to be 27, 33, 46, 62, 76, 87, 98, 104, and 114. Oddly, I don't see any numbering conflicts, but why wouldn't INDOT take the opportunity to update the northern section exit numbers when the new section opens? I think I read the old section exits will be bumped up by 184 so Union Chapel Road should be exit 301.

[RoadWarrior56]

I am suspecting that it may be several years before they change the exit numbers north of Indianapolis.  It would be more confusing to have a single exit with a much bigger number than the sorrounding exits.  I figure at some point INDOT will let a single contract or series of contracts to update the I-69 exit numbers north of Indianapolis all at once.

I remember when all of the exit numbers in Georgia switched from consecutive to mileage-based back in early 2000, it was done all over the state in a very short period of time.

[mukade]

I guess my point, not clearly made, was to make the change for the entire northern section numbers to coincide with the opening of the southern section.

BTW, there will be one duplication of exit numbers on I-69: exit 46. Both SR 56/SR 61 in Petersburg and US 40 on I-465 will have that number. That is similar to I-74 which has two exits 4, 8, and 52 because of the I-465 concurrency. Nothing you can do about those.

[tdindy88]

Luckily, I just pretend that I-74 doesn't exist along I-465 and that problem magically goes away. Speaking of I-74, which will be multiplexed with I-465 and I-69 from Exit 4 east to Exit 49, does anyone else think that six lanes may not be enough for that highway when I-69 is finally finished up to Indy?

[mukade]

I have to admit I never really thought about that. First, until I-69 is complete from Indy to Bloomington, I don't see a lot more traffic coming up, but there will be some for sure. When it is close to complete up to Indy, the capacity needs to be considered. We assume I-69 will go up the east leg of 465, but the eight lane sections up the west and north legs would make for less widening. Not sure, but I know it would be quite expensive to widen the south and east legs.

[mukade]

Below is an article about the drought in Indiana that states that it could affect I-69 construction in that there may not be enough water to make the concrete to pave miles of roadway.

Washington residents join Daviess County dwellers in being asked to conserve water (Indiana Economic Digest)

[ShawnP]

I know this is a touchy subject but in return for lowering labor rates from davis-beacon. I would want all the money saved to go to new road projects. So workers would not lose money as they replace higher pay projects with more lower pay jobs. I would hope to end the boom-bust cycle for workers. Create a even workload with more projects to handle.

[Alps]

I just checked out the lower part of I-69 north of Evansville. How far up to Bloomington does construction currently go? Is the entire corridor shown in OpenStreetMaps visible or have parts not been started yet?

[mukade]

The SR 68 to US 231 sections are scheduled to open in late 2012 - assuming they can get the paving done. That is approximately 67 miles if I remember correctly.

Currently, there are two contracts that have been let between US 231 and SR 37. There are four more to go with the next letting on Wednesday, 7/11. The remaining three will be let in August, September, and October. So by the end of this year, it should be open or under construction from just north of the Ohio River (I-164) to SR 37 in Bloomington.

Proposed plans for section 5 from Bloomington up to Martinsville are being presented for public comment now.

[mgk920]

I just checked out the lower part of I-69 north of Evansville. How far up to Bloomington does construction currently go? Is the entire corridor shown in OpenStreetMaps visible or have parts not been started yet?

Also, about a week ago, now on the previous page, I posted a link to a Bing maps aerial image showing ROW clearance going on about halfway between the current end of the construction at US 231 (a short distance east of Elnora, IN) and Bloomington.

(My 1000th post in AARoads!    )

Mike

[Grzrd]

I guess my point, not clearly made, was to make the change for the entire northern section numbers to coincide with the opening of the southern section.

This article indicates that INDOT will renumber the northern exits and mile markers beginning this year:

The town of Fishers is partnering with the Indiana Department of Transportation to talk with the public this month about renumbering all of I-69's exits starting this year.
The plan stems from the completion of the highway's extension through southern Indiana, and means that all of the exits along the northern part of the route will need to be renumbered, according to a press release from the town of Fishers. When completed, the new I-69 will have added 184 miles to is already existing route. The new numbering system will start at the southern border and proceed north.
Mile markers will also be updated along with the exit numbers. The state will use both the old and new numbers for a number of years before removing the old ones entirely.
The meeting starts at 8 a.m. on July 26 in the Fishers Train Station Meeting Room.

Here's the Fishers Chamber of Commerce press release about the upcoming July 26 meeting to explain the changes.

[tdindy88]

Interesting, now we are getting somewhere in the eventual renumbering of the exits. A quick look of the comments page of that section, one person says they ought to number the exits to the SOUTH of Indianapolis using negative numbers. I'm sure anyone here would have a field day with that, but has anyone actually thought of that before? Of course, the majority of people aren't as savvy with highway terminology or the way the whole thing works, so I'm not holding too much against anyone.

[mukade]

You gotta love that idea of negative numbered exits.

So hopefully Union Chapel Road will be exit 301 and not ever exit 117 as shown in the INDOT plans.

[tdindy88]

That would be a waste of signage. On another note, I know that most of the signage at the interchanges from Grant County north to Michigan are rather new, I hope they just replace the tabs and not the whole sign. On that note, I also know that there is still button copy signage in Madison and Delaware Counties, will these be going away?

[mukade]

The SR 68 exit on I-69 was exit 22 when it opened because it used I-164 numbering. Last time I was down there, the exit number tab was blank so I'll assume they will do that if they can. South of SR 22 the signs are older so that will be interesting.

The SR 9/SR 109 interchange in Anderson (exit 26) was button copy last time I was there. I don't remember if any others were.

[rickmeck]

I wonder when the exits are renumbered, if they will have a tab that says, "Former exit XX." I have seen this before, though I can't remember where. Maybe Virginia or Georgia?

[tdindy88]

The button-copy signage still on Interstate 69 begins at Exit 22 (SR 9/67) and continued past Exit 45 (US 35/SR 28) and all the way to the Delaware-Grant county line, where newer signage took over at the next exit. There are a couple or so signs that aren't button-copy that were installed in that stretch to replace signage that I assume was damaged, but that's it.,

Also, the Indianapolis Star article mentioned that the exits would have both the old and the new numbers mentioned for an uspecified amount of time. So there very much should be a "Old Exit XX" sign nearby. I suppose more will be mentioned at the meeting in Fishers later on and then we should know more about the plans for this. In one other news, I took a look at more signage plans online last night and they have some new signs for the upcoming Exit 114 with SR 37 on I-69. It only shows the advanced signage at the two and one mile points, but it will be Exit 114 and it will be for SR 37 to Bloomington and Bedford.

[Takumi]

I wonder when the exits are renumbered, if they will have a tab that says, "Former exit XX." I have seen this before, though I can't remember where. Maybe Virginia or Georgia?

Virginia had "Old Exit XX" on the former Richmond-Petersburg Turnpike for a short time after the exit renumbering in the early '90s.

[qguy]

I wonder when the exits are renumbered, if they will have a tab that says, "Former exit XX." I have seen this before, though I can't remember where. Maybe Virginia or Georgia?

PennDOT (as well as the PTC on the Turnpike) did that when it switched from sequential to mileage-based numbering in the early 00s. Here's an example on I-95 northbound, just north of Philadelphia:

http://maps.google.com/?ll=40.132921,-74.887018&spn=0.000033,0.016415&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=40.132812,-74.891085&panoid=2C62WIVgiKv3uHYEtPLjLA&cbp=12,46.92,,0,-3.14

[Alps]

I just checked out the lower part of I-69 north of Evansville. How far up to Bloomington does construction currently go? Is the entire corridor shown in OpenStreetMaps visible or have parts not been started yet?

Also, about a week ago, now on the previous page, I posted a link to a Bing maps aerial image showing ROW clearance going on about halfway between the current end of the construction at US 231 (a short distance east of Elnora, IN) and Bloomington.

(My 1000th post in AARoads!    )

Mike

Sounds like by the time I get back to Indiana, I'll be able to drive half and tour the other half... good deal.

[mukade]

In the letting this week, bids were taken for the section going from Carmichael Road to the Monroe County line. The lowest bid (from Gohmann Construction) was for about $90M which is over the engineer's estimate. The highest bid was for something like $125M. So the period where all sections had bids lower than estimates is apparently over.

[ssummers72]

FYI:

Hearings are starting on the exit renumbering North of Indianapolis on I-69:
http://www.news-sentinel.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120713/NEWS/120719791/-1/LIVING

[tdindy88]

Another news article on the exit renumbering, this time coming from Angola:

http://www.indianaeconomicdigest.com/main.asp?SectionID=31&SubSectionID=66&ArticleID=65689&TM=61113.34

Interestingly, the article says that INDOT is starting at Mile Marker 200 at current Exit 0, not 184. I'm not sure if this is an error by the newspaper itself or we are missing something with the highway. In any case, I measured the distance from roughly the spot where Exit 114 will be at Rockport Road and SR 37 (not the exact location mind you, but close) to Exit 37 off of I-465 and it comes up to 182 miles (meaning that the 184 theory is more likely correct.) But whatever.