Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana

[tdindy88]

One word: hills. Look at a shaded relief map of Indiana, the western half of Greene County is mostly flat and once you head to the eastern half it gets hilly. Monroe County is no different in topography.

[mukade]

One word: hills. Look at a shaded relief map of Indiana, the western half of Greene County is mostly flat and once you head to the eastern half it gets hilly. Monroe County is no different in topography.

And limestone. Section 4 construction will be challenging and expensive. Look at the pile of rocks where they are digging out the SR 45 overpass and interchange.

[theline]

And limestone. Section 4 construction will be challenging and expensive. Look at the pile of rocks where they are digging out the SR 45 overpass and interchange.

With all that limestone, they could build a huge statue of Mitch. Pretty appropriate use, I think. 

[IndyAgent]

Well said folks!

[ShawnP]

With the next 27 miles being much more hilly. Sounds like some great fall driving like I-64 west of Corydon, In and east Evansville. If you have never driven it in fall try it. Almost like WV with very light traffic and a lot of great views.

[hbelkins]

Looking to check out I-69 construction next week. I know I can take IN 57 as far north as Washington and generally follow the route, and take a few of the intersecting routes over to see the exits. Once I get to Washington, what's the best routing for me to take to see what's going on with I-69? Just how far north is construction underway now?

[mgk920]

Looking to check out I-69 construction next week. I know I can take IN 57 as far north as Washington and generally follow the route, and take a few of the intersecting routes over to see the exits. Once I get to Washington, what's the best routing for me to take to see what's going on with I-69? Just how far north is construction underway now?

The best that I can say is to go to Bing Maps aerial images and you can trace the construction and side road accesses there.  There is construction northeast of US 231 and some of it is shown in those Bing images, but as to how close to Bloomington it goes, I'm not sure.

Good luck!

Mike

[mukade]

Looking to check out I-69 construction next week. I know I can take IN 57 as far north as Washington and generally follow the route, and take a few of the intersecting routes over to see the exits. Once I get to Washington, what's the best routing for me to take to see what's going on with I-69? Just how far north is construction underway now?

North of Washington is more problematic. When I checked the construction out in May, I ended up going down a number of gravel (and some paved) roads in Greene and Daviess Counties. I didn't really look at a map, I just generally zigzagged from north to south so I couldn't say what county roads I followed. The only views were at overpasses. Also, I never explored areas from Petersburg to Washington so I can't say what you might see there.

I have not strayed from the SR 45 between Crane and Bloomington, but you will see construction at SR 45 and SR 445. SR 45 is closed at SR 445 so the relatively short detour is SR 54 to SR 445. I assume the overpass at SR 54 south of Cincinnati is also well underway. I think I-69 is under construction for four miles east of US 231 followed by a gap of four miles (the section where bids were rejected) followed by four or five contracts that take you to Bloomington. When I went to the community day, I checked out SR 37 itself looking for evidence in interchange construction, but all I saw were a few survey stakes.

[hbelkins]

The best that I can say is to go to Bing Maps aerial images and you can trace the construction and side road accesses there.  There is construction northeast of US 231 and some of it is shown in those Bing images, but as to how close to Bloomington it goes, I'm not sure.

Then Bing's aerial imagery is more recent than Google's, because Google shows the construction running out at Petersburg.

[vdeane]

Then Bing's aerial imagery is more recent than Google's

That has generally been my experience.

[mgk920]

The best that I can say is to go to Bing Maps aerial images and you can trace the construction and side road accesses there.  There is construction northeast of US 231 and some of it is shown in those Bing images, but as to how close to Bloomington it goes, I'm not sure.

Then Bing's aerial imagery is more recent than Google's, because Google shows the construction running out at Petersburg.

Bing's is much more recent and shows the construction going all the way to US 231 along with some segments from there to Bloomington.

Mike

[mukade]

For section 5 from Bloomington to Martinsville...

"The DEIS shows that I-69 is both feasible and constructable while minimizing environmental impacts,"  INDOT Deputy Commissioner Samuel Sarvis said in a statement. "Indiana is a national leader in innovative highway financing and construction, and INDOT is exploring all options to continue delivering this critical project at record speed."

INDOT Releases New I-69 Environmental Impact Statement (Indiana Public Media)

[mukade]

New $500 million estimate for I-69 segment is $100 million higher than previous one (Evansville Courier & Press)

[tdindy88]

Based on the above article, a new editoral from the Indianapolis Star suggests that they should just stop the interstate at Bloomington, perhaps for the long haul. It's only an editorial, but it basically suggests to leave SR 37 as it is and focus on other projects.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20121031/OPINION08/211010325/Editorial-Take-bypass-final-69-leg?odyssey=mod%7Cnewswell%7Ctext%7CIndyStar.com%7Cs&nclick_check=1

[mukade]

The Indy Star has been consistently slanted towards CARR's view, IMO so I don't take them seriously.

That said, once I-69 meets SR 37, a case could be made that US 31 is at least as important to the state as I-69 is. Traffic counts and (lack of) safety should dictate priorities. I am not sure of any other major road projects that are of critical importance to the state.

While I feel I-69 through Bloomington should be completed ASAP, I think construction of I-69 in the Indy area is more important to build than around Martinsville.

[NWI_Irish96]

http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/newsitem.asp?ID=56447

Governor Mitch Daniels and the Indiana Department of Transportation (INDOT) today announced that the first three sections of the new Interstate 69 corridor in southwest Indiana will officially open for business before the Thanksgiving travel holiday on the afternoon of Monday, Nov. 19. The highly anticipated grand opening will cover a 67-mile stretch that completes what has been the longest contiguous ongoing interstate construction project in the United States.

[Henry]

Here's an excerpt from aforementioned Indy Star article:

While state officials continue to insist that the extension of I-69 past Bloomington makes economic sense, the latest news reinforces a compelling argument to the contrary.

A draft environmental impact statement estimates that the cost of the Bloomington-to-Martinsville segment could go as high as $545.6 million. That's $100 million more than the previous high estimate.

The governor's office replies that the previous four legs of the Southern Indiana highway came in well under estimates and there's no reason to expect this one to be any different.

Even if that's so, a problem remains: The state doesn't have money for further work on I-69 after it reaches Bloomington from its origin in Evansville, projected by 2014.

As new funds are sought, Gov. Mitch Daniels says an indefinite halt at Bloomington might make sense. Others, including elected officials from both parties and many residents and businesspeople in Monroe, Morgan, Johnson and Marion counties, prefer that the stop be definite.

They have a strong case. The current route between Indianapolis and Bloomington, Ind. 37, is a highly serviceable four-lane divided highway that could be maintained, repaired and enhanced at a fraction of the cost of turning it into I-69. That latter cost, for widening to interstate specifications, building interchanges and acquiring property, would be staggering for the 21 mostly rural miles from Bloomington to Martinsville; and far greater for the leg linking it to the densely developed Southside of Indianapolis. Add in the loss of taxable real estate, especially along urban stretches, and the upside becomes elusive.

When more highway money becomes available, there will be many uses for it. Indiana is cross-hatched with multilane divided roads, from state and federal highways to the six interstates; and upkeep and improvements on them as well as on hundreds of miles of other infrastructure make far more fiscal sense than adding to the $1.5 billion already spent on a corridor to Evansville, one that will be all but accomplished once I-69 connects with Ind. 37 near Bloomington.

I agree with most of this assessment, although the conversion of IN 37 to at least freeway/expressway standards should not be that complicated, given its current four-lane divided status. Also, if I-69 does end at Bloomington permanently without connecting back to Indy, it could be a while before some sort of resolution is reached. I have a feeling that the Hoosier Heartland project will be done before the Bloomington-Indy connection is.

[tdindy88]

The Hoosier Heartland project is supposed to be finished next year, of course it will be finished before the Bloomington-Indy connection is, hell it will be finished before the Bloomington-Crane connection is done. SR 37 from B-town to Indy is already an expressway, it's the conversion to freeway status that will be the issue. You have to find a way to make the highway limited-access which means that all those who do live off of SR 37 or have businesses on 37 will have to be dealt with. That is where the extra money is going to be needed. That's why the I-70/US 41 option was not a good idea, you'd have to freeway-ize US 41 from Terre Haute to I-64, a longer distance than SR 37 from Bloomington to Indianapolis.

The one thing that might, MIGHT make this a decent option for the short term, leaving SR 37 as it is, is the fact that even once I-69 is built to Bloomington, it is still not a cross-country highway. With large chunks left in Tennessee, Mississippi, Arkansas, Louisiana and Texas (I'm generalizing here, I know some parts are finished) it will still be a long time before I-69 becomes a true cross-country highway in a way like I-5, I-25, I-75 and I-95. Traffic on the new I-69 I am going to guess won't be incrediably high, maybe similar to I-64 and I-74 across Indiana, so SR 37 will be okay for the moment. I still believe that the stretch through Bloomington should be made into a freeway-like highway (interchange at Tapp, bridges at the other crossings.) Also, one other thought, I wonder if we can just build a freeway bypass around Martinsville, similar to the new US 31 around the current US 31 around Kokomo.

[IndyAgent]

According to Wikipedia here are the exit numbers

I64                    21
SR57/68            22
SR168                27
SR64                  33
SR56/61             46
SR 356              not nubmered yet and may not be an exit
US50-150          62

does anyone know the exit numbers for the state road 58 exit and the 231 exit

it looks like there will be a 13 mile stretch with no exits between 64 and 56 and 16 miles from 56 to 50/150

That is a long stretch between exits, makes you wonder if they plan to add exits between at a later date or put a rest stop in between one of those.

[mukade]

According to Wikipedia here are the exit numbers

I64                    21
SR57/68            22
SR168                27
SR64                  33
SR56/61             46
SR 356              not nubmered yet and may not be an exit
US50-150          62

does anyone know the exit numbers for the state road 58 exit and the 231 exit

it looks like there will be a 13 mile stretch with no exits between 64 and 56 and 16 miles from 56 to 50/150

That is a long stretch between exits, makes you wonder if they plan to add exits between at a later date or put a rest stop in between one of those.

1) SR 356 does not have an interchange, and AFAIK, none was ever planned for it. I saw a newspaper article say the same thing so they must read Wikipedia, too.
2) I-64 and SR 68 exit numbers you show are based on I-164. When the first short section opened, SR 68 was marked as exit 22, but subsequently, the text was removed from the sign (the exit tab has no text at all). This was still the case when I went down on October 20. I assume it would be a mile less than it was.
3) North of US 50:

  76   SR 58 (Odon-Elnora)
  87   US 231 (Bloomfield-Crane)
  98   SR 45
104   SR 445
114   SR 37

4) Future exits are planned north of Petersburg (not SR 356) and north of Washington (I think this one would have a rest area at the interchange). These are likely years away from reality.

[IndyAgent]

Thanks a lot, where did you find the exit numbers?

[Henry]

The Hoosier Heartland project is supposed to be finished next year, of course it will be finished before the Bloomington-Indy connection is, hell it will be finished before the Bloomington-Crane connection is done. SR 37 from B-town to Indy is already an expressway, it's the conversion to freeway status that will be the issue. You have to find a way to make the highway limited-access which means that all those who do live off of SR 37 or have businesses on 37 will have to be dealt with. That is where the extra money is going to be needed. That's why the I-70/US 41 option was not a good idea, you'd have to freeway-ize US 41 from Terre Haute to I-64, a longer distance than SR 37 from Bloomington to Indianapolis.

The one thing that might, MIGHT make this a decent option for the short term, leaving SR 37 as it is, is the fact that even once I-69 is built to Bloomington, it is still not a cross-country highway. With large chunks left in Tennessee, Mississippi, Arkansas, Louisiana and Texas (I'm generalizing here, I know some parts are finished) it will still be a long time before I-69 becomes a true cross-country highway in a way like I-5, I-25, I-75 and I-95. Traffic on the new I-69 I am going to guess won't be incrediably high, maybe similar to I-64 and I-74 across Indiana, so SR 37 will be okay for the moment. I still believe that the stretch through Bloomington should be made into a freeway-like highway (interchange at Tapp, bridges at the other crossings.) Also, one other thought, I wonder if we can just build a freeway bypass around Martinsville, similar to the new US 31 around the current US 31 around Kokomo.

I take it back. With all the protests going on along IN 37 as well as the not-yet-begun Ohio River Bridges project, in addition to the issues cited above, there may never be a cross-country I-69 for decades. I'll take another shot in the dark and say that I-73 from Roanoke to Myrtle Beach will be finished before the Bloomington-Indy segment of I-69 ever is.

[IndyAgent]

if they raise the speed limit on 37 to 70mph and close off all the driveways and build bridges or close off side roads that would be fine for a while

[digitalphiltv]

While a completed run from Evansville to Indy via I-69 would be nice, I currently could care less... All I really wanted to see was the "proper"  ... uhm ...  ... mileage and exit numbers  ... going up between Indy and Michigan. Any number greater than zero at I-465 gives a sign that I-69 is a freeway waiting to happen. I do wish they would have been more exact with the new numbers though. Adding 200 is just lazy... Do you hear me INDOT... I said YOU ARE LAZY :-)

[tdindy88]

It's not that INDOT is lazy, it's that they assume regular people are. The whole point of the 200 thing was to make it easier on people who couldn't do the math from 184. But I've dicussed this before, all I will hope for is that they change the numbers again once the entire interstate is finished plus the Ohio River Bridges.