States Should Consider Modest Increases in Speed Limits

[SSOWorld]

Get rid of the speeding citation and the cops will gripe because of lack of revenue

[SidS1045]

Get rid of the speeding citation and the cops will gripe because of lack of revenue

The cops won't care, since they don't get "commissions" on speeding tickets.  However, all the people who do profit from speeding tickets (judges, clerks, magistrates, other court personnel, and let's not forget the insurance companies) definitely WILL gripe, and loudly.

[agentsteel53]

To let him know this, I put on my left blinker, which means 'I see you, I'm still passing these guys, and I'll move over when I'm done'.

except sometimes in Mexico, the left blinker is given from a car in front to a car behind, desiring to overtake, and it means "go ahead and pass me, it is safe to do so".  In other countries, that tends to be indicated with a right blinker.

[hbelkins]

The cops won't care, since they don't get "commissions" on speeding tickets. 

THen why do they seem so (over)zealous in writing them?

[bulldog1979]

In theory, I don't like the idea of blanket or default speed limits either.  In theory, I think every stretch of road should have a study done to determine a safe speed limit.  But wouldn't that take a lot of man-hours (read: money) to complete nationwide?

That sounds like what the Michigan Legislature is forcing the cities here to do. They passed an anti-speed trap law in 2006, and they're pushing enforcement of it statewide now. MDOT and the Michigan State Police are doing studies on various highways in the state, which is why the expressway sections of US 2 and US 127 have been bumped to 65 mph, and more miles of freeway are at 70 mph. The suburbs here in the Grand Rapids area increased their arterials to 40, 45 or even 50 in places after speed studies, but Grand Rapids itself has yet to play ball.

[kphoger]

Yes, but this is never a problem, since one meaning is for 2-lane traffic and the other is for divided highways.

To let him know this, I put on my left blinker, which means 'I see you, I'm still passing these guys, and I'll move over when I'm done'.

except sometimes in Mexico, the left blinker is given from a car in front to a car behind, desiring to overtake, and it means "go ahead and pass me, it is safe to do so".  In other countries, that tends to be indicated with a right blinker.

[agentsteel53]

Yes, but this is never a problem, since one meaning is for 2-lane traffic and the other is for divided highways.

how are out-of-towners (out-of-countriers?) to know this?

[kphoger]

In the scenario described, I highly doubt the guy riding my butt in the left lane of a freeway is going to think I mean "It's clear up ahead, so go ahead and pass", considering the only thing over there is the median.

On a two-lane road, the guy wanting to pass me on a curve is probably not going to think I mean "I'm still passing here, so hold on a minute", considering I'm not passing anyone at all.

[Daniel Fiddler]

Considering the rural speed limit in the United Kingdom, France, Italy, and Spain if I'm not mistaken is 130 kph (81 mph), I believe that all states that have a population density smaller than the United Kingdom or Italy (which would be pretty much all except New Jersey, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, Connecticut, and Maryland) should have a rural speed limit of at least 85 mph, I personally would prefer 90.

[english si]

The UK has 70mph (112km/h) limits, though there's always murmurs of it changing to 80mph on rural motorways.

Spain, this year, downgraded it to 110km/h (what's a kph? It's not metric) and Italy went up a couple of years ago to 150km/h (bonkers, given the design of their roads). France has a wet speed limit of 110km/h.

The Netherlands recently trialled 130km/h and found it to not affect their (impeccable) accident rate, so are looking and seeing where they can up the current 120km/h limit.

Worth pointing out that trucks over a certain weight (7.5 tonnes) have to, by EU law, have speed limiters set to 90km/h or less (56mph) and vehicles over 3.5 tonnes have to be speed limited to 100km/h (62mph) or less. The speed differential isn't a good idea, nor are limiters.

[hbelkins]

Tennessee's speed limits on two-lane roads are vastly underposted. A number of rural two-lane roads are posted at 45 or 50 mph, whereas in Kentucky these would be 55 mph roads. And a wide, mostly straight road like US 11W between Bean Station and Knoxville is posted for only 50 mph.

[Daniel Fiddler]

I agree that Tennessee two lanes were vastly underposted.  Although the 85 mph or 90 mph I suggested would not be suitable for all roads in Tennessee, only a small percentage when you consider the literally tens of thousands of miles that traverse the state.  If I were John Schroer (Commissioner of TDOT), I would post the 85 or 90 mph speed limit on the following major highways:

• All Interstate highways (this being those within the Eisenhower Interstate System, not all freeways) in all counties except the entirety of Shelby, Davidson, Knox, Sullivan, and Washington counties, I-24 in Hamilton County, and I-75 in Hamilton County from the Georgia state line to exit 7, where the speed limits would be 75 mph mostly; with 65 mph on and inside I-240 in Memphis and the I-40 west and I-55 into Arkansas, on and inside I-440 and the Briley Parkway in Nashville (as well as the short sections of I-40 west and I-24 east that are 1 or 2 miles long connecting I-440 and the Briley Parkway), on and inside I-640 in Knoxville, and I-24 from exit 174 to exit 185 in Chattanooga.
  
  Highway 27 North from Morrison Springs Road in Red Bank to Highway 111 in Soddy-Daisy.  Signal Mountain Blvd to Morrison Springs Road (entirely within Red Bank) would be signed 75, the Tennessee River bridge in Chattanooga to Signal Mountain Blvd in Red Bank 65, and I-24 to the Tennessee River Bridge (entirely within Chattanooga) 55.  (The reason for the I-24 to Tennessee River Bridge being so low is due to a dangerous S-curve, short ramps, and inadequate acceleration lanes.)
  
  Highway 111 on all four-lane segments (which are mostly and in some places totally access controlled) from Highway 27 North in Soddy-Daisy to I-40 in Cookeville.  As the two-lane segments of Highway 111 are four-laned, they will be increased as well.
  
  Highway 51 from the end of I-155 in Dyersburg to just short of Troy until it is absorbed into I-69.  Once it is I-69, it would remain being 85 or 90.
  
  Highway 840 (which I frequently refer to as "I-840", but is for some reason still officially only a state highway) for its entire length.
  

Outside of the above roads, I would suggest an increase in the speed limits of various roads:

Freeways NOT listed in the 85 or 90 mph list (such as the Vietnam Veterans Parkway, Saturn Parkway, and Highway 22 from Union City to Martin) and most rural four-lane divided highways:  75 or 80

Rural two-lane roads with proper shoulders, long straightaways, and broad curve radii with high banking (ALL three conditions true):  65 or 70

Rural two-lane roads that do NOT possess proper shoulders, long straightaways, or broad curve radii with high banking (one, two, or all three of these lacking):  60 or less

[agentsteel53]

and Italy went up a couple of years ago to 150km/h (bonkers, given the design of their roads).

and the design of their drivers.  didn't United Arab Emirates once post 160 km/h?

[Daniel Fiddler]

Forgot to answer this question in my earlier post.

what's a kph?

It is the acronym people in the United States and Canada use to abbreviate "kilometers per hour" (just like we use mph for miles per hour), which I guess people in the United Kingdom use km/h for. 

[1995hoo]

Forgot to answer this question in my earlier post.

what's a kph?

It is the acronym people in the United States and Canada use to abbreviate "kilometers per hour" (just like we use mph for miles per hour), which I guess people in the United Kingdom use km/h for. 

I think it would be more accurate to say "some people in the United States and Canada [who don't know better]." The correct form, and the one that's used on most road signs on which a reference is made, is "km/h" because the SI rules deprecate the "per" usage. Notwithstanding the prevalence of references to "5K" races and the like, the correct form is "5 km" (with a space, both letters lowercase, no period unless it's at the end of a sentence), so I assume part of the reason for using "/h" instead of "ph" is because "kmph" would look stupid. I wouldn't be surprised if language issues are part of it as well, since the word for "hour" starts with an "h" in several languages but the word "per" isn't necessarily the same.

[agentsteel53]

Mexico appears to have changed from kph ("kilometros por hora") to km/h at some point.

[Crazy Volvo Guy]

Tennessee's speed limits on two-lane roads are vastly underposted. A number of rural two-lane roads are posted at 45 or 50 mph, whereas in Kentucky these would be 55 mph roads. And a wide, mostly straight road like US 11W between Bean Station and Knoxville is posted for only 50 mph.

Quite the contrary, actually, at least compared to Alabama.  County roads have a max of 45, regardless of whether they easily support more than that or not.  Only State and US routes can be 50 or more.  County routes far outnumber either of the former.  It's positively infuriating.

edit:// and both states are very generous compared to just about anywhere in the northeast or Virginia/Maryland...  For instance, in NH, only state primaries and US routes can be more than 40.  State secondaries (unsigned) are limited to 40 and city/town roads are limited to 35.  Furthermore, state and US routes can only be posted 55 if they have full (10 foot) shoulders, otherwise they are limited to 50.  Thankfully, however, NH also has a "prima facie" law that states that outside of 25mph residential streets and school zones, any speed limit less than the state maximum (65) cannot be absolute, and that traffic and conditions must be taken into account in enforcement.  This is why you'll rarely get a ticket for less than 10 or 15 over in NH.  Another little tidbit that is largely unknown is that the lowest legally enforceable "normal" speed limit in NH is 25.  I'm not sure if it pertains to school zones as well or not.

[agentsteel53]

Thankfully, however, NH also has a "prima facie" law that states that outside of 25mph residential streets and school zones, any speed limit less than the state maximum (65) cannot be absolute, and that traffic and conditions must be taken into account in enforcement.

don't all states have "prima facie" laws?  or are you getting away with a wink and a nod when you talk your way out of a speeding ticket?

[Crazy Volvo Guy]

don't all states have "prima facie" laws?  or are you getting away with a wink and a nod when you talk your way out of a speeding ticket?

Nope.  AL definitely doesn't, as plenty of municipalities will pull you over for 5 over here regardless of conditions or traffic, and given that we still have municipal courts (a baby step away from the Mayor's Courts of Ohio), beating a ticket is rare.

[agentsteel53]

Nope.  AL definitely doesn't, as plenty of municipalities will pull you over for 5 over here regardless of conditions or traffic, and given that we still have municipal courts (a baby step away from the Mayor's Courts of Ohio), beating a ticket is rare.

I've gotten a verbal warning for 6 over in some rural county on US-11 in west Alabama.  (I think it was 61 in a 55, may have been 56 in a 50.)  I figured that was "prima facie".  Maybe I just got the sheriff on a good day.

[1995hoo]

The cop letting you off is different from "prima facie." Most jurisdictions in this country have "absolute" speed limits, meaning the number on the sign is the limit, period, and if you exceed it you can be given a ticket regardless of the reason. A "prima facie" speed limit allows you to defend against the charge on the basis that even though you exceeded the number on the sign, your speed was reasonable and prudent and wasn't a danger to yourself nor anyone else. Whether you've satisfactorily established that defense is a matter for the court to decide, however.

In other words, the difference is between the cop not issuing the ticket at all (in which case you need not mount a defense) versus the cop issuing the ticket and then you relying on what is essentially an affirmative defense.

[Crazy Volvo Guy]

I've gotten a verbal warning for 6 over in some rural county on US-11 in west Alabama.  (I think it was 61 in a 55, may have been 56 in a 50.)  I figured that was "prima facie".  Maybe I just got the sheriff on a good day.

You got the sheriff on a good day.

[agentsteel53]

You got the sheriff on a good day.

I've always thought sheriffs to be much more reasonable than both town police, and highway patrol.  maybe it's because they have to be re-elected every few years...

[hbelkins]

In Kentucky, I'm not sure why cops are so gung-ho on writing traffic violations. The police agencies are the very last on the totem pole to get the revenues from the tickets. The state gets its cut, then the courts, and finally the cops, no matter which agency issues the citation. And that cut used to only be $10 or so a ticket.

[Crazy Volvo Guy]

I've always thought sheriffs to be much more reasonable than both town police, and highway patrol.  maybe it's because they have to be re-elected every few years...

Maybe the Sheriff himself, the deputies are hired guns just like any other police officer.