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Author Topic: Wisconsin notes  (Read 593143 times)

SEWIGuy

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Re: Wisconsin notes
« Reply #3325 on: August 18, 2021, 09:24:01 AM »

John Nolen / Olin and Monona / Cottage Grove are both former state / US highway routes.  Rimrock Road is not, but used to be County CC before US-14 was moved to the current freeway and off of what is now MM.
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The Ghostbuster

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Re: Wisconsin notes
« Reply #3326 on: August 18, 2021, 03:55:03 PM »

John Nolen Dr. and Olin Ave. were once part of US 12 and US 18; Monona Dr. was once US 51; and Cottage Grove Rd. was once STH-30. I wish I could have seen those roads before all of those designations were relocated in the 1940s and 1950s.
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Re: Wisconsin notes
« Reply #3327 on: August 19, 2021, 11:40:56 AM »

It's fascinating to think of Olin Ave as a US highway today.  Though it does provide some insight into my observation of historic aerial photos that show a bridge for Olin over the railroad tracks next to go Goodman Park.  It would make sense to have the main egress from the southeast into a pre-Beltline, pre-Nolen Drive era of Madison be grade separated from what would have been a fairly busy RR back then.
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invincor

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Re: Wisconsin notes
« Reply #3328 on: August 19, 2021, 11:58:34 PM »

I remember a long time ago discussion here or elsewhere in the forum where we puzzled over the exit numbers in the freeway portions of US 10 in Wisconsin and how they donít match the true mileage of the highway at all.  I was just studying a state highway map in preparation for a trip tomorrow, and I think I just stumbled on where this mistake came from.

The exit number on I-94 at its junction with US 10 in Osseo is 88.  And if you follow US 10ís mileage from there back to the state line, adding up all the little black numbers I get 87.  Allow for some rounding errors and I bet the true mileage is 88.  So it looks to me that whoever numbered US 10ís mile markers and exits for some reason started from I-94ís 88 and sloppily guessed that 10ís mileage would be similar since they both go to the state line and used that rather than actually measure along 10. 
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The Ghostbuster

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Re: Wisconsin notes
« Reply #3329 on: August 20, 2021, 08:17:49 PM »

The exit numbers on US 10 boggles the mind of myself (and probably plenty of others). West of Interstate 39, the exit numbers are about 40 digits higher than they would have been if US 10's actual mileage from the Minnesota/Wisconsin border had been used. East of Interstate 39, the numbers are about 37 digits higher than they should be. I don't know what the DOT was thinking when they posted those numbers, although I'm afraid those 37/40 digits higher exit numbers are here permanently.
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JREwing78

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Re: Wisconsin notes
« Reply #3330 on: September 01, 2021, 08:16:25 PM »

I-43 between Silver Spring Dr in Glendale to Hwy 60 in Grafton is next up for widening:
https://projects.511wi.gov/43north-south/full-project-overview/

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invincor

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Re: Wisconsin notes
« Reply #3331 on: September 02, 2021, 02:28:20 PM »

The exit numbers on US 10 boggles the mind of myself (and probably plenty of others). West of Interstate 39, the exit numbers are about 40 digits higher than they would have been if US 10's actual mileage from the Minnesota/Wisconsin border had been used. East of Interstate 39, the numbers are about 37 digits higher than they should be. I don't know what the DOT was thinking when they posted those numbers, although I'm afraid those 37/40 digits higher exit numbers are here permanently.

I think I've figured this out now.  Somewhere in their archives they have a mileage list of US 10 that dates back to its first appearance in Wisconsin, and at that time, it was joined with US 12 and came into the state in Hudson, and they ran together until Osseo.  They're still using that mileage list for everywhere that US 10 needs mile markers. 

This actually makes a bit of sense, that you don't change the mile markers if a road gets rerouted earlier on its route, or else you can never do a reroute without also changing every mile marker in the state.  I got to thinking about this because I know that WIS 29's total mileage dropped very slightly when they rerouted it in River Falls to follow Cemetery Road on the south edge of town instead of going up Main St. to Cascade Avenue as it had historically done.  In the strictest sense, every mile marker on the 4-lane sections of WIS 29 should now be one mile lower than they are posted because that of that recent reroute.  That would be silly, so they stuck with the old listed mileage. 

In 10's case, this will only ever become a problem if they ever 4-lane some of the section from Prescott to Osseo, where these old numbers won't obviously won't fit, but that's something I don't ever see happening.
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SEWIGuy

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Re: Wisconsin notes
« Reply #3332 on: September 02, 2021, 03:12:57 PM »

But when US-10 was moved onto its current route in 1934, did they actually use mileage based mile markers? 
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roadman65

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Re: Wisconsin notes
« Reply #3333 on: September 07, 2021, 05:00:52 PM »

I see in Green Bay, US 41 is not co-signed with I-41. Is that statewide? Is US 41 like US routes on interstates in Colorado now? It disappears until it becomes independent again, that is.

https://goo.gl/maps/3jmvqFyDNuostxP5A
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Re: Wisconsin notes
« Reply #3334 on: September 07, 2021, 05:55:50 PM »

I see in Green Bay, US 41 is not co-signed with I-41. Is that statewide? Is US 41 like US routes on interstates in Colorado now? It disappears until it becomes independent again, that is.

https://goo.gl/maps/3jmvqFyDNuostxP5A

When I-41 was first commissioned they were co-signed, but WISDot indicated they would ghost US 41 in future sign replacements with Minnesota-style "US 41 FOLLOW I-41" signage. There should still be plenty of I-41/US 41 dual reassurance assemblies.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2021, 05:58:11 PM by TheHighwayMan394 »
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gr8daynegb

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Re: Wisconsin notes
« Reply #3335 on: September 07, 2021, 06:43:10 PM »

I see in Green Bay, US 41 is not co-signed with I-41. Is that statewide? Is US 41 like US routes on interstates in Colorado now? It disappears until it becomes independent again, that is.

https://goo.gl/maps/3jmvqFyDNuostxP5A

When I-41 was first commissioned they were co-signed, but WISDot indicated they would ghost US 41 in future sign replacements with Minnesota-style "US 41 FOLLOW I-41" signage. There should still be plenty of I-41/US 41 dual reassurance assemblies.


Those signs in Green Bay for I-41 have been like that since the designation came to be(assuming you are meaning the I-41 southbound signs when you pass I-43 and Lombardi Ave).  But from my travels if sign had I-41/US-41 they still are signed the same, and if there are I-41 by itself it has stay that way to this time...Ö...If only Business US 41 was still signed in GB would we have had a business loop like Michigan and other states do? lol
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The Ghostbuster

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Re: Wisconsin notes
« Reply #3336 on: September 08, 2021, 12:13:03 PM »

It was always planned to have only Interstate 41 shields on all overhead signs due to potential confusion of having both US and Interstate 41 shields on signs (also to reduce on clutter). Maybe North Carolina could have done the same thing: https://www.google.com/maps/@34.586455,-79.1263496,3a,75y,98.14h,72.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sNWh0fJ7lbjP4dLmvGlGTgQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656.
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SEWIGuy

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Re: Wisconsin notes
« Reply #3337 on: September 08, 2021, 12:15:47 PM »

I see in Green Bay, US 41 is not co-signed with I-41. Is that statewide? Is US 41 like US routes on interstates in Colorado now? It disappears until it becomes independent again, that is.

https://goo.gl/maps/3jmvqFyDNuostxP5A

When I-41 was first commissioned they were co-signed, but WISDot indicated they would ghost US 41 in future sign replacements with Minnesota-style "US 41 FOLLOW I-41" signage. There should still be plenty of I-41/US 41 dual reassurance assemblies.


Those signs in Green Bay for I-41 have been like that since the designation came to be(assuming you are meaning the I-41 southbound signs when you pass I-43 and Lombardi Ave).  But from my travels if sign had I-41/US-41 they still are signed the same, and if there are I-41 by itself it has stay that way to this time...Ö...If only Business US 41 was still signed in GB would we have had a business loop like Michigan and other states do? lol


It's not necessary to sign US-41 at all - even with "US-41 Follow I-41" signage.  It's all "Highway 41," and no one gets confused.  They should remove all references to US-41 between the IL line and the end of I-41/43 just north of Green Bay.  Much cleaner.
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SSOWorld

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Re: Wisconsin notes
« Reply #3338 on: September 09, 2021, 09:02:25 PM »

I see in Green Bay, US 41 is not co-signed with I-41. Is that statewide? Is US 41 like US routes on interstates in Colorado now? It disappears until it becomes independent again, that is.

https://goo.gl/maps/3jmvqFyDNuostxP5A

When I-41 was first commissioned they were co-signed, but WISDot indicated they would ghost US 41 in future sign replacements with Minnesota-style "US 41 FOLLOW I-41" signage. There should still be plenty of I-41/US 41 dual reassurance assemblies.


Those signs in Green Bay for I-41 have been like that since the designation came to be(assuming you are meaning the I-41 southbound signs when you pass I-43 and Lombardi Ave).  But from my travels if sign had I-41/US-41 they still are signed the same, and if there are I-41 by itself it has stay that way to this time...Ö...If only Business US 41 was still signed in GB would we have had a business loop like Michigan and other states do? lol


It's not necessary to sign US-41 at all - even with "US-41 Follow I-41" signage.  It's all "Highway 41," and no one gets confused.  They should remove all references to US-41 between the IL line and the end of I-41/43 just north of Green Bay.  Much cleaner.
In Wisconsin, it's always "Highway" (or just HWY)
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peterj920

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Re: Wisconsin notes
« Reply #3339 on: September 15, 2021, 12:53:02 AM »

Drove through Northern Wisconsin over the weekend. US 51 now ends at a temporary T intersection with US 2 with the interchange completely demolished. The roundabout is still far from being done.

Wis 77 traffic across US 53 now has to use a J Turn or Michigan Left to cross as the median crossing is completely closed. There are several J Turn intersections along US 53 due to high crashes.

The Trego Interchange at US 63 north along US 53 is well underway with grading work currently being worked on. US 53 will have to be lowered to accommodate the US 63 bridge.
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TheHighwayMan394

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Re: Wisconsin notes
« Reply #3340 on: September 15, 2021, 01:34:48 AM »

Wis 77 traffic across US 53 now has to use a J Turn or Michigan Left to cross as the median crossing is completely closed. There are several J Turn intersections along US 53 due to high crashes.

I recall this intersection being the pilot experiment for an intersection conflict warning system in the state around 10 years ago (Minnesota followed suit with a few of these in the central part of the state on US 169 and MN 23 that are still operating). Sounds like it did not succeed. I had a feeling it wouldn't.
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TheHighwayMan394

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Re: Wisconsin notes
« Reply #3341 on: September 15, 2021, 11:36:51 PM »

Milwaukee urbanists have outlined their plan to improve I-94 on the west side without adding any freeway capacity.

https://www.wpr.org/coalition-groups-propose-alternative-i-94-expansion?fbclid=IwAR1V71_DZQDbQ96Q_qmgQEYcgWysg7uaHXqYr3VxUzW4yU6veFdrp4la1ho
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thspfc

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Re: Wisconsin notes
« Reply #3342 on: September 16, 2021, 07:36:31 AM »

Milwaukee urbanists have outlined their plan to improve I-94 on the west side without adding any freeway capacity.

https://www.wpr.org/coalition-groups-propose-alternative-i-94-expansion?fbclid=IwAR1V71_DZQDbQ96Q_qmgQEYcgWysg7uaHXqYr3VxUzW4yU6veFdrp4la1ho
When it comes to projects like this, it annoys me that the only opinions that seem to matter are the ones of the people living in the neighborhoods right near the proposed project. Then they play the race card, and just like that, the construction is postponed 5 more years.
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JoePCool14

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Re: Wisconsin notes
« Reply #3343 on: September 16, 2021, 08:23:08 AM »

Milwaukee urbanists have outlined their plan to improve I-94 on the west side without adding any freeway capacity.

https://www.wpr.org/coalition-groups-propose-alternative-i-94-expansion?fbclid=IwAR1V71_DZQDbQ96Q_qmgQEYcgWysg7uaHXqYr3VxUzW4yU6veFdrp4la1ho

Effectively, their plan to improve I-94 is to... add bus routes and bike lanes on nearby arterials. Nice, that'll do it!  :colorful:

On a less sarcastic note, why are we listening to what faith groups have to say on an Interstate expansion? It's not a particularly moral issue where they have much say. I'm also curious as to exactly what "faith groups" they even are, since the article does not say.
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SEWIGuy

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Re: Wisconsin notes
« Reply #3344 on: September 16, 2021, 09:03:27 AM »

Milwaukee urbanists have outlined their plan to improve I-94 on the west side without adding any freeway capacity.

https://www.wpr.org/coalition-groups-propose-alternative-i-94-expansion?fbclid=IwAR1V71_DZQDbQ96Q_qmgQEYcgWysg7uaHXqYr3VxUzW4yU6veFdrp4la1ho
When it comes to projects like this, it annoys me that the only opinions that seem to matter are the ones of the people living in the neighborhoods right near the proposed project. Then they play the race card, and just like that, the construction is postponed 5 more years.

Or maybe you could realize that it is a problem and not just dismiss their concerns so easily. 


On a less sarcastic note, why are we listening to what faith groups have to say on an Interstate expansion? It's not a particularly moral issue where they have much say. I'm also curious as to exactly what "faith groups" they even are, since the article does not say.

The displacement of people from their homes isn't a moral issue?  And MICAH is a coalition of numerous churches covering multiple faiths.

https://micahmke.org/our-staff-and-leadership/


Look, I am not saying they are right, but dismissing their concerns and claiming they are playing the "race card" is a highly condescending way of trying to understand their POV.
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thspfc

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Re: Wisconsin notes
« Reply #3345 on: September 16, 2021, 10:33:30 AM »

Milwaukee urbanists have outlined their plan to improve I-94 on the west side without adding any freeway capacity.

https://www.wpr.org/coalition-groups-propose-alternative-i-94-expansion?fbclid=IwAR1V71_DZQDbQ96Q_qmgQEYcgWysg7uaHXqYr3VxUzW4yU6veFdrp4la1ho
When it comes to projects like this, it annoys me that the only opinions that seem to matter are the ones of the people living in the neighborhoods right near the proposed project. Then they play the race card, and just like that, the construction is postponed 5 more years.

Or maybe you could realize that it is a problem and not just dismiss their concerns so easily. 


On a less sarcastic note, why are we listening to what faith groups have to say on an Interstate expansion? It's not a particularly moral issue where they have much say. I'm also curious as to exactly what "faith groups" they even are, since the article does not say.

The displacement of people from their homes isn't a moral issue?  And MICAH is a coalition of numerous churches covering multiple faiths.

https://micahmke.org/our-staff-and-leadership/


Look, I am not saying they are right, but dismissing their concerns and claiming they are playing the "race card" is a highly condescending way of trying to understand their POV.
I 100% understand their point of view. But the reality is that there are no good options here. When youíre stuck between a rock and a hard place, doing nothing is not the right choice, and nothing is exactly what WISDOT is doing here. I empathize with the people who live near I-94 in that area; I also empathize with the people living in the suburbs and elsewhere who are losing hundreds of hours a year sitting in traffic. All Iím saying is that thereís two sides to every story, yet in this debate the only one that ever makes it into the media is the inner city side.
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SEWIGuy

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Re: Wisconsin notes
« Reply #3346 on: September 16, 2021, 10:43:24 AM »

Milwaukee urbanists have outlined their plan to improve I-94 on the west side without adding any freeway capacity.

https://www.wpr.org/coalition-groups-propose-alternative-i-94-expansion?fbclid=IwAR1V71_DZQDbQ96Q_qmgQEYcgWysg7uaHXqYr3VxUzW4yU6veFdrp4la1ho
When it comes to projects like this, it annoys me that the only opinions that seem to matter are the ones of the people living in the neighborhoods right near the proposed project. Then they play the race card, and just like that, the construction is postponed 5 more years.

Or maybe you could realize that it is a problem and not just dismiss their concerns so easily. 


On a less sarcastic note, why are we listening to what faith groups have to say on an Interstate expansion? It's not a particularly moral issue where they have much say. I'm also curious as to exactly what "faith groups" they even are, since the article does not say.

The displacement of people from their homes isn't a moral issue?  And MICAH is a coalition of numerous churches covering multiple faiths.

https://micahmke.org/our-staff-and-leadership/


Look, I am not saying they are right, but dismissing their concerns and claiming they are playing the "race card" is a highly condescending way of trying to understand their POV.
I 100% understand their point of view. But the reality is that there are no good options here. When youíre stuck between a rock and a hard place, doing nothing is not the right choice, and nothing is exactly what WISDOT is doing here. I empathize with the people who live near I-94 in that area; I also empathize with the people living in the suburbs and elsewhere who are losing hundreds of hours a year sitting in traffic. All Iím saying is that thereís two sides to every story, yet in this debate the only one that ever makes it into the media is the inner city side.


That is simply not true.  There have been all sorts of stories on how the expansion of I-94 to eight lanes would impact traffic, etc.  For example:

https://wtmj.com/news/2021/03/24/wtmj-guest-op-ed-the-road-to-a-brighter-economic-future/

https://www.wisn.com/article/proponents-renew-push-for-i-94-widening/36372451

And countless more.
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Trademark

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Re: Wisconsin notes
« Reply #3347 on: September 16, 2021, 11:41:49 AM »

Milwaukee urbanists have outlined their plan to improve I-94 on the west side without adding any freeway capacity.

https://www.wpr.org/coalition-groups-propose-alternative-i-94-expansion?fbclid=IwAR1V71_DZQDbQ96Q_qmgQEYcgWysg7uaHXqYr3VxUzW4yU6veFdrp4la1ho
When it comes to projects like this, it annoys me that the only opinions that seem to matter are the ones of the people living in the neighborhoods right near the proposed project. Then they play the race card, and just like that, the construction is postponed 5 more years.

Or maybe you could realize that it is a problem and not just dismiss their concerns so easily. 


On a less sarcastic note, why are we listening to what faith groups have to say on an Interstate expansion? It's not a particularly moral issue where they have much say. I'm also curious as to exactly what "faith groups" they even are, since the article does not say.

The displacement of people from their homes isn't a moral issue?  And MICAH is a coalition of numerous churches covering multiple faiths.

https://micahmke.org/our-staff-and-leadership/


Look, I am not saying they are right, but dismissing their concerns and claiming they are playing the "race card" is a highly condescending way of trying to understand their POV.
I 100% understand their point of view. But the reality is that there are no good options here. When youíre stuck between a rock and a hard place, doing nothing is not the right choice, and nothing is exactly what WISDOT is doing here. I empathize with the people who live near I-94 in that area; I also empathize with the people living in the suburbs and elsewhere who are losing hundreds of hours a year sitting in traffic. All Iím saying is that thereís two sides to every story, yet in this debate the only one that ever makes it into the media is the inner city side.


That is simply not true.  There have been all sorts of stories on how the expansion of I-94 to eight lanes would impact traffic, etc.  For example:

https://wtmj.com/news/2021/03/24/wtmj-guest-op-ed-the-road-to-a-brighter-economic-future/

https://www.wisn.com/article/proponents-renew-push-for-i-94-widening/36372451

And countless more.

The alternatives presented are good but don't tie into this project. A 27th BRT is a layup even though light rail is probably what the corridor needs. More bike lanes are good. But that doesn't mean that it precludes interstate construction.

Does anyone have numbers on how many houses/businesses would need to be torn down for this construction?

Liveability impacts on an increased freeway are concerns. But those can be addressed partially be implementing some of their requests and maybe things like red light cameras at the exits and surrounding intersections.

But if this project is going to tear down a significant amount of homes then that's going to make me side with them then convenience for people in the suburbs.
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Re: Wisconsin notes
« Reply #3348 on: September 16, 2021, 12:44:01 PM »

I also empathize with the people living in the suburbs and elsewhere who are losing hundreds of hours a year sitting in traffic.

This is the only thing I don't agree with. If people are tired of sitting in traffic (and Milwaukee traffic isn't that bad) then move closer to work. Not a fan of people that want the opportunities and options that cities provide but then don't want to live in and/or pay for it by instead living in suburbia or the hinterland.
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Re: Wisconsin notes
« Reply #3349 on: September 16, 2021, 12:51:24 PM »

I also empathize with the people living in the suburbs and elsewhere who are losing hundreds of hours a year sitting in traffic.

This is the only thing I don't agree with. If people are tired of sitting in traffic (and Milwaukee traffic isn't that bad) then move closer to work. Not a fan of people that want the opportunities and options that cities provide but then don't want to live in and/or pay for it by instead living in suburbia or the hinterland.
This is too objective. Inner city neighborhoods are either a) dangerous with poor schools and poverty, or b) really expensive. The suburbs are higher quality neighborhoods but less expensive than inner city neighborhoods of the same quality, thus why people live there.
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Whether a team makes the playoffs isn't comparable to whether they are above .500. Part of making the playoffs is getting the wins when you need them to get in, which Brady/Belichick always found a way to do. That's skill. Being above .500 or below .500 is just however things shake out. That's luck.

 


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