Signs With Design Errors

Started by CentralCAroadgeek, June 29, 2012, 08:22:36 PM

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jakeroot

Quote from: stridentweasel on April 12, 2021, 12:55:20 PM
I hope this thread isn't too old to bump.  I noticed these the other day:

https://goo.gl/maps/GsmfTc4JpHV1eX27A
https://goo.gl/maps/AGox25GVbjKG6oZz7

Slide the time travel device back and see what got changed.  Instead of bringing these up to 2009 MUTCD compliance, KDOT made them less compliant.  Not a bad-looking set of signs to the untrained eye, but a roadgeek would notice the error right away.

I'm a bit confused. Everything looks the same before and after. I see, for example, dancing arrows on the current sign and the sign from 2007.


Ned Weasel

Quote from: jakeroot on April 12, 2021, 06:46:01 PM
I'm a bit confused. Everything looks the same before and after. I see, for example, dancing arrows on the current sign and the sign from 2007.

"SOUTH" was done correctly before, in all-uppercase with a larger "S," and it was changed to mixed-case, which is wrong.
"I was raised by a cup of coffee." - Strong Bad imitating Homsar

Disclaimer: Views I express are my own and don't reflect any employer or associated entity.

JoePCool14

It also looks like the arrows are more angled for some reason. When they could/should just be straight down over the lanes.

:) Needs more... :sombrero: Not quite... :bigass: Perfect.
JDOT: We make the world a better place to drive.
Travel Mapping | 60+ Clinches | 260+ Traveled | 8000+ Miles Logged

jakeroot

Quote from: stridentweasel on April 12, 2021, 08:20:48 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on April 12, 2021, 06:46:01 PM
I'm a bit confused. Everything looks the same before and after. I see, for example, dancing arrows on the current sign and the sign from 2007.

"SOUTH" was done correctly before, in all-uppercase with a larger "S," and it was changed to mixed-case, which is wrong.

Gotcha. For whatever reason, my mind was focused on elements of the sign related to the 2009 MUTCD (aka, the arrows).

JoePCool14


:) Needs more... :sombrero: Not quite... :bigass: Perfect.
JDOT: We make the world a better place to drive.
Travel Mapping | 60+ Clinches | 260+ Traveled | 8000+ Miles Logged

Scott5114

Quote from: JoePCool14 on June 16, 2021, 03:09:10 PM
Presented without further comment:

https://goo.gl/maps/hTZqshV9gmbW3Tn28

Ah, construction signage. Is there anything it can do?
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

jakeroot


SectorZ

Quote from: JoePCool14 on June 16, 2021, 03:09:10 PM
Presented without further comment:

https://goo.gl/maps/hTZqshV9gmbW3Tn28

"Detour", the new Atari adventure game from Activision...

JoePCool14

This one almost has a bit of cRaiG cOuNTy DNA in it. I-69 in Evansville, IN.
https://goo.gl/maps/NYiikFLMSSD8thdV6

:) Needs more... :sombrero: Not quite... :bigass: Perfect.
JDOT: We make the world a better place to drive.
Travel Mapping | 60+ Clinches | 260+ Traveled | 8000+ Miles Logged

LilianaUwU

Quote from: JoePCool14 on June 23, 2021, 01:47:49 PM
This one almost has a bit of cRaiG cOuNTy DNA in it. I-69 in Evansville, IN.
https://goo.gl/maps/NYiikFLMSSD8thdV6

Ah, the classic 3/4th error. It happens when the lowercase letters are set to 3/4 the size of the capital letters despite the font already being preset to 3/4.
"Volcano with no fire... Not volcano... Just mountain."
—Mr. Thwomp

My pronouns are she/her. Also, I'm an admin on the AARoads Wiki.

roadfro

Quote from: LilianaUwU on June 23, 2021, 02:49:54 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on June 23, 2021, 01:47:49 PM
This one almost has a bit of cRaiG cOuNTy DNA in it. I-69 in Evansville, IN.
https://goo.gl/maps/NYiikFLMSSD8thdV6

Ah, the classic 3/4th error. It happens when the lowercase letters are set to 3/4 the size of the capital letters despite the font already being preset to 3/4.

Not only that, but some of those lower case "r" are slightly larger than the rest of the lower case letters.
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

LilianaUwU

Quote from: roadfro on June 24, 2021, 03:22:10 AM
Quote from: LilianaUwU on June 23, 2021, 02:49:54 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on June 23, 2021, 01:47:49 PM
This one almost has a bit of cRaiG cOuNTy DNA in it. I-69 in Evansville, IN.
https://goo.gl/maps/NYiikFLMSSD8thdV6

Ah, the classic 3/4th error. It happens when the lowercase letters are set to 3/4 the size of the capital letters despite the font already being preset to 3/4.

Not only that, but some of those lower case "r" are slightly larger than the rest of the lower case letters.

Oh god, it really is, huh.
"Volcano with no fire... Not volcano... Just mountain."
—Mr. Thwomp

My pronouns are she/her. Also, I'm an admin on the AARoads Wiki.

JoePCool14

Hot take: The vast majority of INDOT's signs could be placed on this thread. Sloppy spacing is a feature, not a bug. It doesn't matter if the sign is new or old either.

For those of you who haven't driven in Indiana, here's a sample:

https://goo.gl/maps/fg6nUeYUWs9pfCFT9
https://goo.gl/maps/8NBhfyLZGN3qzCMK8
https://goo.gl/maps/NWxgew4CkqjXfB44A

And these are all really minor, and don't affect the legibility of any of these. It's not like we're talking about OkDOT. It's just something to note.

:) Needs more... :sombrero: Not quite... :bigass: Perfect.
JDOT: We make the world a better place to drive.
Travel Mapping | 60+ Clinches | 260+ Traveled | 8000+ Miles Logged

PurdueBill

Quote from: JoePCool14 on June 24, 2021, 07:55:54 AM
Hot take: The vast majority of INDOT's signs could be placed on this thread. Sloppy spacing is a feature, not a bug. It doesn't matter if the sign is new or old either.

For those of you who haven't driven in Indiana, here's a sample:

https://goo.gl/maps/fg6nUeYUWs9pfCFT9
https://goo.gl/maps/8NBhfyLZGN3qzCMK8
https://goo.gl/maps/NWxgew4CkqjXfB44A

And these are all really minor, and don't affect the legibility of any of these. It's not like we're talking about OkDOT. It's just something to note.

A lot of INDOT signage seems to get worse in layout when they "reface" older signs.  Witness these BGSs on US 24, which looked normal in 2011 but if you go to more recent imagery you can see an INDOT phenomenon of no top margin which has swept the state on refacing jobs like this.
https://goo.gl/maps/dZenQmMxndZRfpWC7

It really seems like INDOT has gone downhill on this compared to many of the classic button copy signs which have become quite rare unfortunately in the past few years, which generally didn't have such problems.  Did someone retire who took all the experience on sign layout with them? 

hbelkins

Quote from: PurdueBill on June 24, 2021, 04:01:48 PM
It really seems like INDOT has gone downhill on this compared to many of the classic button copy signs which have become quite rare unfortunately in the past few years, which generally didn't have such problems.  Did someone retire who took all the experience on sign layout with them?

Does Indiana do its guide signs in-house, or contract them out? If the latter, it's possible that the design of the signs is also being contracted out.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

JoePCool14

Quote from: PurdueBill on June 24, 2021, 04:01:48 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on June 24, 2021, 07:55:54 AM
Hot take: The vast majority of INDOT's signs could be placed on this thread. Sloppy spacing is a feature, not a bug. It doesn't matter if the sign is new or old either.

For those of you who haven't driven in Indiana, here's a sample:

https://goo.gl/maps/fg6nUeYUWs9pfCFT9
https://goo.gl/maps/8NBhfyLZGN3qzCMK8
https://goo.gl/maps/NWxgew4CkqjXfB44A

And these are all really minor, and don't affect the legibility of any of these. It's not like we're talking about OkDOT. It's just something to note.

A lot of INDOT signage seems to get worse in layout when they "reface" older signs.  Witness these BGSs on US 24, which looked normal in 2011 but if you go to more recent imagery you can see an INDOT phenomenon of no top margin which has swept the state on refacing jobs like this.
https://goo.gl/maps/dZenQmMxndZRfpWC7

It really seems like INDOT has gone downhill on this compared to many of the classic button copy signs which have become quite rare unfortunately in the past few years, which generally didn't have such problems.  Did someone retire who took all the experience on sign layout with them?

Yes, the no-top-margin thing is definitely an issue. Just looking around today, I found one that takes that to the extreme.
https://goo.gl/maps/P9f3hJ3B3y5FmQdK9

Also, INDOT's "sign-refacing" is awful in general.

Quote from: hbelkins on June 24, 2021, 05:13:30 PM
Does Indiana do its guide signs in-house, or contract them out? If the latter, it's possible that the design of the signs is also being contracted out.

I'm leaning towards no on that one. It's not like Oklahoma where each sign has different issues. INDOT signs usually have similar problems, you can tell they're coming from roughly the same place.

:) Needs more... :sombrero: Not quite... :bigass: Perfect.
JDOT: We make the world a better place to drive.
Travel Mapping | 60+ Clinches | 260+ Traveled | 8000+ Miles Logged

tdindy88

Here's some more "sign-refacing" abominations from Indiana.

These two come from I-465 near I-70 on the east side. For some inexplicable reason INDOT decided to change these signs back in 2019.

https://goo.gl/maps/Jn9GuduyzXbqLT6p7
https://goo.gl/maps/tJYKdHTcz5sCyZMi9

A quick look back to earlier in 2019 shows what the signs used to look like. In short there was no problem other than the terrible, terrible fact that the cardinal direction didn't have it's first letter made larger than the others (there's a term for this but I don't remember at the moment.) I couldn't believe it when they redid these signs to make them look like that. I didn't think of it at the time but seeing this thread made me realize that this was part of a larger pattern. In short I think INDOT's highway signs are actually pretty decent, at least the first-generation version of them. But if they have to be replaced or redone for some reason then we get to problems.

Interesting there's another sign I pass by every day coming home from work, located at I-465 and US 31 on the south side.

https://goo.gl/maps/dN4B3e2yebMsy7eNA

This was part of a larger sign replacement along that stretch of highway a few years ago. Then just earlier this year, for some unknown reason, they replaced the sign bridge and put three new signs that are identical to the ones in the image EXCEPT they actually look better. The I-65 sign has better spacing and the US 31 sign looks pretty good. I need to take another look though to see if I was seeing this correctly, but maybe someone's finally getting it.

Scott5114

What are they doing in these "refacings"? Just applying new sheeting to existing panels?
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

formulanone

Quote from: roadfro on June 24, 2021, 03:22:10 AM
Quote from: LilianaUwU on June 23, 2021, 02:49:54 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on June 23, 2021, 01:47:49 PM
This one almost has a bit of cRaiG cOuNTy DNA in it. I-69 in Evansville, IN.
https://goo.gl/maps/NYiikFLMSSD8thdV6

Ah, the classic 3/4th error. It happens when the lowercase letters are set to 3/4 the size of the capital letters despite the font already being preset to 3/4.

Not only that, but some of those lower case "r" are slightly larger than the rest of the lower case letters.

That goes into the Actually Genuine Well and Truly Worst of Signs No Joking Around This Is For Real Thread.

J N Winkler

Quote from: Scott5114 on June 25, 2021, 03:47:02 PMWhat are they doing in these "refacings"? Just applying new sheeting to existing panels?

If Indiana DOT is like Illinois DOT, they are probably washing the old sheeting off with high-pressure water, recycling the aluminum extrusions, and more or less carbon-copying the old legend.  This can be done in-house or by contractors under framework contracts (I believe Illinois DOT does both).

Quote from: hbelkins on June 24, 2021, 05:13:30 PMDoes Indiana do its guide signs in-house, or contract them out? If the latter, it's possible that the design of the signs is also being contracted out.

Indiana DOT does do a pure sign replacement contract every now and then, though I suspect there is an in-house component.  And yes, they do contract out sign design.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

okroads

Another sign refacing in Indiana that looks awful: IN 49 South in Valparaiso: https://goo.gl/maps/RSBRSJaW7h5FVQjQA

JoePCool14

Quote from: okroads on June 26, 2021, 12:57:56 PM
Another sign refacing in Indiana that looks awful: IN 49 South in Valparaiso: https://goo.gl/maps/RSBRSJaW7h5FVQjQA

Wow. That's a new low for INDOT. Imagine how good they'd be if they just got their act together with BGS design.

:) Needs more... :sombrero: Not quite... :bigass: Perfect.
JDOT: We make the world a better place to drive.
Travel Mapping | 60+ Clinches | 260+ Traveled | 8000+ Miles Logged

thenetwork

For a while there in the 80s and early 90s, ODOT in Ohio would just rivet overlays of metal squares with new green sheeting, shields and text on top of the older sign.  I remember some sign panels that came off still showing the old shields/text/borders still intact on the original sign.

The end result looked like a "wrinkled" sign.  Saw these most often in the Columbus area and points southwest of there.

They also for a time in the 90s just replace the shields on the signs -- sometimes right over the old shields!  This was common across much of Northern Ohio.

PurdueBill

Quote from: thenetwork on June 27, 2021, 12:42:11 PM
For a while there in the 80s and early 90s, ODOT in Ohio would just rivet overlays of metal squares with new green sheeting, shields and text on top of the older sign.  I remember some sign panels that came off still showing the old shields/text/borders still intact on the original sign.

The end result looked like a "wrinkled" sign.  Saw these most often in the Columbus area and points southwest of there.

They also for a time in the 90s just replace the shields on the signs -- sometimes right over the old shields!  This was common across much of Northern Ohio.

I need to find the reasonably good pic I have of this sign on I-70 west of Columbus which for a couple years about a decade ago had part of its overlay gone and the old lettering, while gone, had left shadows on the base layer underneath that were visible of the border and letters.  Impossible really to see in the 2009 street view, but fairly clear in the pic I got.  Which is somewhere on a hard drive.

There used to be way more of the bubbly/wrinkled signs but they have been getting replaced over time...too bad, they had character.  :P 

Occidental Tourist

Here's how greenout was handled for the addition of one interchange and the removal of another on the 60 Freeway in Rowland Heights, CA







The best part is that the interchange sequence signs as originally configured intentionally had space left on them for when the new Lemon Ave interchange would eventually be added.  Apparently, at the time they made the signs, the removal of the original Brea Canyon Road interchange as part of adding the Lemon Ave interchange wasn't contemplated, and it was assumed both exits would still be listed.




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